The Chaser Report - Nukey Poo's Crappy Antarctic Adventure | Chris Taylor

Episode Date: July 16, 2024

Chris Taylor joins Dom Knight to explore the story of 'Nukey Poo', the small nuclear reactor installed at an Antarctic base in the 60s. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Chaser Report is recorded on Gadigal Land. Striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence, this is The Chaser Report. Hello and welcome to The Chaser Report. Dom here, once again with Chris Taylor. Charles has now announced he's doing a TV show, by the way, called Optics. So that's why he's busy this week. It's filming. It's very excited for Charles.

He's doing it with Freudian Nip, Jenna and Vic. Yes, I think it has been officially announced. It has been announced. It's a ABC sitcom, I guess you'd call it, a narrative comedy set in the world of PR and spin. Yes, and I suspect Charles is in the role of hopeless, middle-aged white man. I think that's essentially the role. I haven't read the scripts yet.

How did he get that role? But I think if you've seen the contact Tracy sketch that we did on YouTube a few years ago that Charles was part of, it's just that dynamic, essentially. Yeah, great. That would be good watching. Yeah, yeah, no, no, we look forward to that and wish them a happy shoot. Indeed. Now, on today's show, Chris, there's been a lot of discussion of nuclear energy, of course, in

Australia. But as part of this, I saw a great article in the City Morning Herald last week. And something I wasn't aware of is the question of what happened. Speaking of small modular reactors, as Peter Dutton has been, the US Navy installed one at the Antarctic base on Ross Island. True or false, the nickname of this machine was Nuky-P-P-P-E-P-O. Newky-P-O. How you're spelling poo? P-O-O. N-U-K-E-Y, P-O-O.

Okay, well, here's... Do you believe me? This is my approach for any true. and false question, is if it sounds so preposterous, the person wouldn't have asked it unless it's true. So I'm going to say true, Don. Let's have a break until I reveal the answer. Thank you for your patience. Your call is important. Can't take being on hold anymore? FIS is 100% online so you can make the switch in minutes. Mobile plans start at $15 a month. Certain conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca.

Yeah, who would make up a, like, nuky poo sounds just ridiculous. You know, like the way some couples talk to each other in baby language, like, oh, Newki-Poo, you're so beautiful. Who's a cute little reactor? A cute little nuclear reactor. Who's got radiation and uranium? You do, you do, no, you do, you do, you do. Um, Newki-poo.

Well, I guess there's a bit of a history, isn't there, of quite sort of powerful, ugly bits of having cute names. Yes. You know, the bomb, I don't remember the bomb or, I can't. Oh, they, they, they. They gave them all cute names, isn't they? They did. They did. I've done that terrible thing of trying to introduce a fact

without backing it up with the actual detail. I've got it here. It's Little Boy and Fat Man. Fat Man. Yeah, Fat Man. It's also the name, Little Boy and Fat Man, also the name of a Triple M breakfast team. That's right.

It's Little Boy and the Fat Man. It didn't until you hear the bomb. Cold Hard Catch. Coming up, we're going to be talking to Nuky Pooh. So Newky Pooh, no, this news bypassed me. entirely. It's an extraordinary story. A nuclear reactor in possibly the world's most pristine environment. I know that there's science research centres at Ross Island there, but it's not built up. They're little science shacks and sort of almost, when you look at the accommodation,

they're almost like shipping containers converted into bedrooms and stuff. It's very rustic and basic. I've never seen pictures of a big nuclear reactor down there. Well, it's actually quite small. This is the reason why it's interesting. I mean, I don't know that this story particularly paints Peter Dutton's idea in a great degree of, I don't think it's a great story for him, but it's really, it's about the size of a shipping container. I'll show you the picture. Here's Newky Poo. If you go to the Herald website, you can see.

It's really quite small. So it is about the size of a shipping container, very small. And the reason why they brought it down there was because it was so impossible to get fuel down to Antarctica. So back in, I mean, it was very expensive to get petrol down there. You had to ship everything down there. And so the big idea from the US Atomic Energy Commission was, why don't we just put some nuclear reacted in there.

Just small, transportable ones. Do they build them from scratch or build them in America? Yeah. Yeah, right. So it was basically, it was P.M.3A. It was called portable medium-powered. That's not as catchy as Newquipu, is it? No, it's not as...

You can see why they've come up with Newquitur. It's a very good name. And it's actually, they put it in McMurdo base, which is within the part of Antarctica that New Zealand claims, ironically, enough. Yes. Bit awkwardly. Now, lots of questions here, don't. First of all, so they just thought nuclear was the most efficient way.

I guess solar is not possible because half the year it's just dark. Yeah, I don't think they were big on the windmills back then. What year was it? 1961. Oh, I've got back to the 60s, early nuclear. And when would America have started, well, World War II, that would have started the nuclear program? Yeah, so the nuclear power was already well on the way by this point.

Yeah, yeah. And how did it go? What was the success of Nuky Purr? Well, legally, they thought it was fine because the Antarctic Treaty said that, look, any nuclear explosions in Antarctica and the disposal of radio, waste there is prohibited. So they thought, well, not doing that. We've got a little reactor. It's not really exploding. It's all fine. The lawyers are happy. The environmental is happy. In terms of how it actually went, within the first year, Nukypoo had caused its first problem,

hydrogen fire and a containment tank. It was a shutdown and energy shortages. And, yeah, very unfortunate. Icebreakers tried to get down there. They had to bring fuel down. And essentially it was so hopeless that they gave up on Nukyipu. It didn't go very very well. So there's no nuclear reactors. No, it was absolutely hopeless. But what there was was contamination. But as is the way with these things, the contamination lasted for quite a long time. So they started trying to decontaminated in 1972. It was going to take them three years, but they discovered... What's become contaminated? Like the site, the whole, just the fact that they had nuclear stuff.

There's radiation in the area. So it's like post-Chinople, post-Fugoshima, that's what's going on in Antarctica, which thankfully there wouldn't have been many humans around. There's a big penguin population. A lot of penguins, a lot of glowing penguins. There are a lot of sort of five flippered penguins walking around Antarctica because of Nukipu? It should admitly barely work for long at all.

It was hopeless. But during the time that it did work, all this irradiated material apparently leaked. The stuff that was supposed to contain it was corroded. So the stuff seeped out. They didn't embed it in concrete the way you normally do because it was too heavy to transport. Sounds like a fast. It's not a great idea.

And eventually there were 12,000 tons that they had there of irradiated gravel and soil. They had to ship back, put it back on ships and get it back to the United States. So can you imagine how much more expensive it was than shipping petrol in? In the first place. They had to dig up half the hillside

that it was actually installed on and bury it all in concrete line pits in the US. Amazing they were allowed. to do this because I've been to Antarctica. It's one of the great experiences of my life. And if anyone ever gets the opportunity, I can't recommend it enough. And the reason it remains, touch wood, remains such an amazing place to visit,

is it genuinely does feel like the last pristine wilderness on Earth. Now, there's... It did. It's until you're worse. It's about Nuky poo. Come in the 60s. I was going to say, you just couldn't... Even though nuclear is regarded as more safe and we know a lot more about it,

Now, I don't reckon you'd get approval to put Nuky Poo in today. I just think... Well, I'm sure they didn't. I'm sure they just didn't ask. Oh, you think even back then? Even within the US, they wouldn't go with it. Yeah, right. Because they didn't tell anyone else about it at all.

But the lawyers signed off on it. They just... I think they thought they'd keep it secret. Keep it secret. But the story doesn't end there because, unfortunately, Chris, the people who were involved in being on the base were exposed to long-term radiation. Oh, the researchers? And, yeah, the researchers who were down there.

they had to pay a lot of compensation to the people who were the friends of Nikki Pooh who were down there. Is this all just coming out now? Why is the Herald Carrey in a story from the 60s? I think because it's small modular nuclear reactors, to be honest. So this is 2011. It was the case that they realised that the personnel were contaminated. But it went on from there in recent years.

So sort of 2020 on, this is still going in New Zealand. Some of the New Zealanders who are involved as well, who were actually on the ships that shipped that were radiated material back in the States. The icebreakers bringing it back and forth. Yeah, they got exposed as well. So they're claiming compensation too. See, I reckon the whole of New Zealand might have a case

because they're all a bit funny. And New Zealand's quite close to Antarctica, isn't it? Sure. And I don't know how powerful Newky poo was. But I reckon when it really stuffed up, its radiation probably seeped as far as South Island. I was just in South Island. And I love my Galkyweeer.

I love them. You were just in Christchurch. Did you get a, oh, you're not quite right, vibe? A little bit. A little bit. Yeah, no, it's a strange place. But it just goes to show. We can talk about this in a moment.

If you do even the smallest little fun-sized nuclear reactor, you never quite know what's going to happen. We'll talk about that in a second. Because, yeah, this is a tiny thing. I mean, the shipping container is not very big. How big are reactors today? Like the ones Dutton's proposing or the ones in Japan or America? Well, those reactors are really quite large.

I mean, that's a full industrial power station. Peter Dutton is proposing that sort of reactor. I don't know exactly how big they are, but I mean, they're major plants, right? They don't fit in the shipping container. So it wouldn't be a nuky poo. It would be almost a nuky sewage system. Like a whole, the whole, it would be a shitstorm. So a big, that's right.

So the Fukushima reactor was much bigger than this. Yes. So this was tiny. It's, you know, as poos goes, it's sort of on the smaller. Yeah, it's a little bit of dribble. Yeah. And yet that's still contaminated. the researchers living there, I presume, the wildlife that was in the vicinity at the time.

So I'll show you the Fukushima reactor. So if you look at this on, it's a major industrial plant, right? I mean, the actual reactor core is quite small within that. A lot of it's all the cooling towers and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, it's not a Nukipu. That's a much bigger thing. You think, you know, like the Japanese are very good at miniature. You know, like when you go to Tokyo.

And Dom, I know you go to Tokyo a bit. I love Tokyo. Is it the golden guy, that section where the little bars? Oh, the tiny bars. And they're all like six cedar bars. You could fit a lot of those bars inside Nukipu, actually. I want to, where's the sort of miniature nuclear reactor? Even smaller, Nukipu.

Just sort of, you know, a nice little intimate, romantic four-seater. A romantic nuclear reactor. A little sort of fire side one. I want the sort of reactor you can sit around and toast marshmallows. One you can go to on your honeymoon. That's right. You know, a real getaway. Leave the kids at home, honey weekend.

Let's go to the reactor for the weekend. Just you, me and a lot of warm radiation. A nice small unit you can. could put, I don't know, in the baby's bedroom, keep them warm. Because, you know, use a lot of electricity heating the baby's room. We have the heaters on during the evening for our young children, but we resent it. If they were nuclear powered, it would be fantastic. Yeah, no, I'd be fine with that.

Put a little portable reactor in there. Yep. Yeah. Thank you for your patience. Your call is important. Can't take being on hold anymore. Fizz is 100% online, so you can make the switch. minutes. Mobile plans shorted at $15 a month. Certain conditions apply. Details at fizz.com.

The Chaser report. News you know you can't trust. So the point being, just to get serious about Peter Dutton's plan, so he wants some of these full-scale reactors. The big ones. Not the intimate Japanese ones. But he also wants this new, the small modular nuclear reactor. This is what's being discussed. And this is why Nuky-Poo's stories come to the forefront. I see. Because what So it was so successful, Dutton says, get me some of them. Get me some more of those. And the problem is that various companies have been trying to design these things. There have been quite a few models that have been experimented with.

A lot of countries think this is the way forward. The whole thing is it's smaller. You potentially have less risk, less to go wrong. Some of them would work on alternative fuels from uranium and plutonium, which is less bleeding. Put them on the back of your Ute or your caravan. Yeah, that's right. You have one in every Queensland police station just to keep the lights on. But the problem is that they don't work.

They haven't been able to develop one. So, full credit to the US for actually building Niki Pooh at a small scale, because one of the big problems pitted up in faces is that this second technology doesn't exist anywhere in the world. And the last company that was actually building it in the States has just given up because it was too expensive and difficult. This is what I never understand. Like, in the last time we got together, Dom, in the previous podcast, we were talking about

Elon Musk and his plans to, you know, colonise Mars and build cities in Mars. And that to my head was just inconceivable, I didn't quite understand it. Yeah. If he thinks that's achievable, then that seems much harder than just having a compact nuclear reactor. Yeah. Where's, is Musk's plate too full, or is he, does he think he could fit in? A little fun size. Can he fit in what are they called tiny homes?

You know, there's a real trend in like Airbnb's for the tiny homes and people build them in rural areas. Very small compact. A bed and you've got to get a ladder up to your bed and there's one gas hob for your kitchen. I'm kind of picturing them like that. This sort of very eco, if that's the word, eco-tiny nuclear reactor. Well, this is the whole argument Dutton's making is that he's

saying it's green technology. I don't know that the people who spent time in Nukyipu would entirely agree with that perspective, but zero emissions. Zero emissions. Yeah, and so on that. So they are very green on the carbon front. And as long as they don't blow their fuse, as it were, incredibly green. The big question, I imagine

a lot of Australians will have, is do you trust them not to blow their top. Yeah. Alar Fukushima, allah, Chernobyl. Now, there's a lot of people at HBO who saw the hit they had with Chernobyl and have always said, oh, it's a story with no sequel. Now, if Dutton can give them their sequel, then I reckon he'll get the HBO vote. Absolutely.

I imagine that the story of Nukypoo is already being developed for... A prequel. A prequel. Because it's... Not only is it involves Americans, which is obviously more important than Russians. Yep. But the name, Nukipu, I mean, I can see that on the Netflix. Where do I invest?

Yeah, absolutely. So this is the whole idea. Look, we don't have small modular nuclear reactors yet. But if we can bring back Nukipu and perhaps install it, I mean, would peter up and have one in his electorate, would have one in his backyard. Where's the shell of Nuky Poo now? It's completely dismantled. I think it's just all been buried in a concrete tomb. I mean, you could go and look.

You wouldn't survive, but you could go and check it out. This is the problem. When it goes wrong, you've got to bury it in kind of a concrete tomb. Do you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So whatever's left. As I said, they had to dig out the whole hillside and all the buildings. Cheap it back on a series.

So the idea that they're going to save money with a little nuclear power plant didn't really come to pass. But that's the policy Peter Dutton's taken in the next question. Yes, and do you understand the politics of it? Because I don't really meet anyone who thinks this is a good idea. And yet someone told me that it actually, was it you? It polls for young men, apparently. Oh, we were talking about this at our chase of lunch yesterday. Five years ago, I think Scombeau was sort of injured, off the back of orchestra and stuff,

was sort of investigated on the quiet, reintroducing nuclear as a possible policy. And they did, they ran the focus groups on it, and it was just, it performed appallingly. There was no interest in nuclear at all. It was a bit of a vote loser. Yeah. Something's changed in five years where Dutton's obviously decided, oh, no. Well, there must be some focus groups somewhere that are saying. Yeah.

And someone's talking to that young men in America are quite privileged. pro-nuclear because it's it's sort of I think the argument is people begrudgingly sort of agree we need to do something to reduce emissions but they don't like caving in to the left or the green advocacy yeah we don't want solar we don't want wind we don't want high so they go okay we'll be green

but we still have big ugly machines everywhere let's do nuclear that's right it's sort of the right wing green thing yes it's the monster truck version of um like at some point soon someone's going to invent an electric monster truck and this is the same thing This is going, well, you still get your zero emissions, but that's fine, but we're going to do it with this massively dangerous technology, potentially, massively dangerous technology. And so I think that's what this is all about. And I mean, the other theory, of course, is that it will wreck, as we've said on the podcast recently, it'll wreck the renewables industry in the meantime if it gets up. It removes confidence in renewables investment. In the pipeline. Because everyone's going, well, if this new guy, Dutton gets in, then we're not going to invest, because the whole policy will be different. So I think there's obviously a lot of, of wrecking going on in the policy. So even if it's only semi-seriously stated as policy,

its impact on renewables, which Dutton obviously hates, because it's seen as a bit, you know, a bit nimbun, a bit... It's a bit nimbid, yeah. Then sort of mission accomplished, because it doesn't really matter if he ever introduces nuclear or not. He just wants to sort of put the brakes on the renewables industry to give comfort and sucker to the gas and coal. And, of course, in the meantime, that's the implication. It's actually not about nuclear as we've been saying it's about coal and gas continuing in the meantime until we get this wonderful fleet of nuclear reactors in 2050 well the detail i like best i haven't checked if they're still peddling this and i've said this before is that um david little proud the nationals

leader said that if they win the election the plan is to have nationals yeah if the coalition wins the election and i think um dutton back this up later as well they will have two and a half years of consultations of the communities where these things might be built so they're going to spend all this time asking you'd think it you could basically ask it in one day You could do or not very quickly. You go, do you want this? To send out a text message, yes or no. Do you want this huge nuclear reactor next door to you?

No. Well, let's just, let's think about it for two and a half years, though. Don't rush into you, no. And the great thing about it is that, I mean, Little Proud then acknowledges that eventually, even with the consultation, it still has to be a yes in the end of the day. I mean, because they've said that they're going to do this. Can it be like when they do these major roadworks?

There was one in New South Wales called West Connects recently, where they just kind of just, you know, ask people to leave their house, and they pay them the compensation because they're putting a road through the old street. Is there a price? Would people have a price they go, oh, I don't like the idea of living next to a nuclear plant? Ah, but what if we give you $400,000?

Do you reckon, is that the only way they'll get it through? Because no one's going to change their mind on the idea of living next to a nuclear plant. Either you get the money up front or you get it a little bit later on when like Newquipu, the leaks happen and you've got to get compensated for it. Look, I'm not sure how it's going to work.

But I think people will just move away from those. I mean, on the bright side, but then people will need to move in to work there. I think we've just found a solution to housing prices in Sydney. I think, and... Genius. The Liberals would go for this. If you build them in inner city, the latte belt area.

Surrey Hills. Put them in Surrey Hills. Or Brunswick and Melbourne. Or next to Malcolm Turnbull's house, I think, would be high on the list as well. Yep. They are absolutely, those prices will go right down. That's really, really good. Yeah.

It's not just an energy solution. It's a housing affordability plan as well. I think most people in those suburbs care about more than saving the planet is affordable housing. So if the sacrifice is living next to a nuclear plant, I reckon they, you know, and that knocks 500,000 off their two-bedroom unit, I reckon they go for that. Problem solved. Thank you very much, Chris. Our gear is from Road, a part of the iconic class network.

Catch you next time. Thank you for your patience. Your call is important. Can't take being on hold anymore. FIS is 100% online, so you can make the switch in minutes. Mobile plans start at $15 a month. Certain conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca.