The Chaser Report - Robodebt Claims Another Helpless Victim!

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

Robodebt has struck again, and Dom and Charles are ready to bring you up to speed on exactly how it hurt the poor soul. Meanwhile Dom unpacks the latest scandals around PwC and Deloitte. Plus Charles celebrates a health victory. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Chaser Report is recorded on Gatigal Land. Striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence, this is The Chaser Report. Hello and welcome to The Chaser Report with Dom and Tom and a sad day in Canberra. I know. I'm quite disappointed. We talked a couple episodes ago about Robo Debt and just the misery it's made in the life of so many Australians. And it's sad. Another, another Aussie has joined the scrap heap of those affected by Robo Debt.

That's right. And this time, it's the workers who suffer. The workers. It's always the workers, isn't it? It's just the people putting in the long hours for 900 grand, Catherine Campbell, who oversaw the rollout of Robo Debt didn't warn there was anything illegal about it. And according to the Royal Commission, did nothing of substance when exposed to information, revealing that it was illegal. She's been suspended without pay, without her $900,000 a year. How's she going to survive? Where is the due process that she deserves? Like, where is all the sort of step-by-step?

Like, what the government should do is methodically work out whether she should be suspended or not before recklessly suspending her. Otherwise, she's as bad as, you know, the last mob who would send out those horrible notices to welfare recipients. That was her. She sent them out. That was her.

And also, there was a Royal Commission. It actually wasn't arbitrarily decided by a computer based on incorrect averaging. They actually looked at what she did and made that call. But Catherine, you know, solidarity, sister. I hope things go well for you. You should really talk to your union. Yeah, talk to your union.

They'll love that chat. Do they have a union for overpaid public servants? They probably have their own tiny little elite union. Maybe Catherine can start one. The consolidated union of union bashes. That's right. Lots to talk about today. We'll get into some more stories in a moment.

Thank you for your patience. Your call is important. Can't take being on hold anymore? Fizz is 100% online so you can make the switch in minutes. Mobile plans start at $15 a month. Certain conditions apply. Details at fizz.com. So yes, Robode Air continues.

At some point in the next little while, the shot's going to have an article written by me about all this. I've been a bit waylaid by a cold this week, as you can probably hear, but it's in the mail. Charles, how are you doing? You've been to the doctor today. Yes. Did it cost you $200?

I'm out the other end, Dom. Are you? Of what? Well, about six months ago, I went to the doctor, got a blood tear. and apparently my cholesterol was at record levels. Record levels? Yeah, like the doctor sort of went,

ooh, that's really bad. Off the charts. Of the charts. Charles, you've always been a star performer. Congratulations, well done. Anyway, so made a deal with the doctor because I didn't want to go on statins. Because someone told me that if you go on statins,

you lose your sex drive. Oh, yeah. Okay. So definitely don't want to do that. The thing is I'm 47, don't have any sex drive left. Yeah. It would have been a minimum. Minimal cost, I want to thought, Charles.

Came up with this deal, which is I was going to be good for six months to get my cholesterol down. And then she was going to work out whether, you know, I had to go on statins or not. Right. And this morning, I went and got the blood test. And so now I can eat it up on the saturated fat. That's great. I've got the blood test.

I'll presumably see her next week. I've been as good as gold for the last six months. So now I can just, I went straight out, got a. Big Mac and then did some eggs with Hollandaise sauce. It's going to be fucking free living from now on. Yeah, and the thing is, if you pass this hurdle, the thing to do, I have a lot of saturated fats and then lots of sex just to test out those arteries, just to make sure, you know, if something's clogged, you'll have a heart attack,

and then you'll know there's a problem. And then the thing is that my next strategy is to then never go back and make the mistake of getting a cholesterol test in your mid-40s. Yes, that's the whole, that's where I went wrong. in January. Oh, you definitely shouldn't have done that. Yeah. I mean, I understand statins are probably amongst the most prescribed drugs in the world.

I think you'll find that most people 50, 60 plus are on them. Are you sure about the sex drive? Because I'm thinking there's a lot of old fat people who seem to have a lot of sex. Oh, really? Don't they? I mean, all those, every business, every, you know, every, every, every celebrity in their 60s is, like Donald Trump is on statins. He's still got lots of sex drive, you know, Stormy Daniels and all that.

But isn't that because he's a crazy? Yeah. Yeah, but clearly it's working. So I've just got to become an old creepy creep. Well, I mean, you're going down the path. Or is it the, or is it the, right. So you're, because the way somebody, because somebody was on stands, they said, and the way they said it to me was, uh, yeah, what it does is it sort of reduces your joie de vivre. Oh. Yeah. So maybe, maybe it's just like enjoyment of life rather than, I just took that as six drive. How would you know given that, how would you know, given that in your mid 40s, the joy of life? seeps away. Yes, exactly. Maybe it's not, it's just a correlation. It's not a causation. It's just like, your life's over anyway.

Oh, and you're on statins, because everyone's on statins because you're in your mid-40s. I'm just, I've just looked up statins and sex drive in a, in a browser, in a search engine. Yeah. And what they're saying here, are they good, any good porn videos about statins and sex drive? I've had to put the safe search on. So the other thing is, apparently, have. Staten's can help reduce your chances of erectile dysfunction. Oh.

So it may reduce your sex drive, but it may improve your performance, which sort of makes sense. You can last longer. Hmm. Yeah, because if you've got higher blood pressure, there's less blood available when required. Oh, okay. Rottieo. So this is far too much information. I mean, I would just get more advice.

Like, did you hear that, did any doctor tell you that statins reduce sex drive? No, no, no. No, it was my mate at the pool, said it. Right, okay. So wait a minute, hang on, but it says it can give you memory problems and liver damage. Statins? Yes. Or the drinking you've done to raise your cholesterol in the first place?

Oh, I can't remember. No, okay. It does say here on the British Heart Federation that sexual problems can be a side effect of statins. But then again, presumably not dying is also one of the benefits of having arteries that are unclogged. No, that would be a downside. Oh, you don't want to live that long. I'm ready. Like, oh, I'm getting so old, like getting up in the morning. Do you find this?

You know, you, you know, if you do any exercise the day before, you just... Oh, you get the aches. Yeah. I mean, I'm much younger than you, Charles. I'm a year younger than you. Yeah. So, no, I'm not at that point. I'm in my prime.

Oh, just wait until you turn 47, mate. It's all over. And yet here we are still in the comedy trenches when, when others would have given the game away and gone to work because I'm reputable organisation like PWC, rather than continuing to beat this drum, good on us for still trying. Look, can I just say,

it's not just Catherine Campbell who's in a bit of trouble over PWC. Deloitte has also had a little bit of a... Oh, I'm glad we've touched on this. Yeah, this was an interesting bit of news, wasn't it? Document retention problem, I think, is how it's going to be framed

by Deloitte's PR people. So that's two of the big four firms. No, but the thing is, so PWC, see prevented Australia's, you know, like Australia, the global corporations from paying tax in Australia, which is pretty treasonous, right? Arguably, yes. The Deloitte staff, an ex-employee of Deloitte, leaked defense documents. Oh, look, but who amongst us hasn't?

I mean, Donald Trump did it. Deloits did it. I mean, if I had top secret military documents, there's no chance I'd be able to look after them properly. I'm hopeless with paper. I'd leave it in the cafe or something. Yeah. And also, it would be pretty cool to have your hands on proper defense documents.

Oh, wouldn't that be great? You'd tell it, everyone. You would want to boast about it, especially to get another job. It'd be like, well, look, we're a friendling in the last job. Absolutely, no. I'm very trustworthy, see this, to this top take a document that I've got? Well, this is the thing. I mean, now, so two of the big four firms.

Okay, so what is the betting? We're in New South Wales, so we have to bet on this. Yes. Because it's compulsory to gamble. On all things. But, so who are the ones there? The KPMG. And EY, right?

EY. So KBMG, I think nowadays is run by Paul Howes. Oh, that's right. Paul Howes. Who's Julia Gillard. The faceless man who knocked off Kevin Rudd in favour of Julia Gillard. So he's very trustworthy. Yeah, definitely.

He wouldn't knife you in the back. Yeah, no. So. And then who's the other? Ernst and Young, E.Y. Yeah. Right. I mean, they're all, I'm not going to, who's going to bet against them having done the same thing?

Of course they wouldn't. Yes. I mean, I don't want it to defame any big companies. might be able to sue us. But let's just say that so far we found out about two. I would not be, I wasn't shocked by the Deloitte news. On the balance of probabilities. Yeah. Not due to wrongdoing, just because it's so hard when you've got all these multi-million dollar government contracts, so hard to keep who you're not supposed to be telling about the confidential information you've got. It's so funny because about a month ago, I actually caught up

with a friend who works at Deloids. Oh, right. And the thing he was saying is he was boasting about how they are so rigorous on their keeping of information private and secret and, you know, between clients that there is no possibility that there would ever be a scandal about Deloitte. Oh, wow. Well, I've just looked up EY and government documents. And let's just put this on the record. This is from ABC News.

They have told a parliamentary inquiry, because we were looking at breaking up the big four in Australia, if not globally. And he says that they've never, they've never. They've never breached government confidentiality, ever. And the CEO, David LaRocca, earned $2.8 million last financial year. The average partner gets about a million a year. He says it's a fair reflection on what he does. And he says, absolutely no way.

There's no way this would happen. We would never do that. We would never, you know, violate confidential information. Just because two of the four have. Yes. EY says that they never would. So when? I shouldn't say when?

If? If? If, in the unlikely event that he's full of shit, we can go back to this and say, well, let me surrender a bit of that little salary. We don't deliberately breach confidentiality, he says. We don't market tax minimisation schemes. We don't use blanket legal professional privilege claims to frustrate regulators. Our business model is not built on condoning, rewarding, or covering up this kind of behaviour.

Unless that statement was an attempt to cover up their behaviour. Unless it was. Which on the balance of probabilities. I mean, we don't want to defy me. know people who work at EY, who I'm not going to use the word respect. I know them. I know people who work at EY. Um, I think. Have they assured you? Like my friend assured me. Assured you. Yeah. I mean, this is the whole problem. It reminds me of leadership spills. Like the fact that they're assuring you. Yes. It's on. If we're talking about people being untrustworthy. Yes. Assurance is

meaningless. This is the problem. You can say whatever you like. Well, look, Dom, I assure you that I have never betrayed you and never will. I mean, I know that's not true. Why would you, why would you say such a thing on the podcast? Yeah, look, I mean, well, I'm wanting to become a consultant. Well, this is the thing where we've fallen down. Should we, should we, we should open a fifth, shouldn't we? I mean, four is not enough.

What can it be called Domain Charles? Domain Charles. The great thing about it, D.C., D.C. Because you've got to have an acronym these days. The great thing is because we have no track record, we've got no secrets. We've got at least a year or two. So we've been completely clean hands. We're clean skins. No one's trusted as with any special documents.

We have no information that if it was leaked would cause problems. In fact, we can say with absolute certainty, we have never mishandled the government document. No, we've never been trusted. We have a track record that is blameless. And certainly, no tax minimisation information. I imagine even if we did set up a consulting firm, we still wouldn't be given that sort of information. Let's be honest. Well, I think given how bad I am at the tax thing, our clients would probably end up

paying more tax. They would. They would. And missing massive bills and getting charged punitive interest rates. Yeah. Thank you for your patience. Your call is important. Can't take being on hold anymore?

FIS is 100% online so you can make the switch in minutes. Mobile plans start at $15 a month. Certain conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. you can't trust. So that'd be good advice. Like, maybe what we could do is provide the bad advice against which other, like we could provide the government with terrible advice that they knew was terrible.

It wouldn't charge very much for this service. So that they could compare that. That would be a baseline of advice. Yes. And so PWC and EY and all the others, if their advice was no better than ours, they'd know they were getting ripped off. Yes, we are the scientific method. We're the control group.

Yes, we're the minimum. Why do a bunch of idiots think? We were not charging a lot of money for this, right? It's very cheap. Maybe our services could be called I reckon. I reckon. And it's just whatever we reckon. Isn't there a financial software company called reckon?

And it could be, you know, actually this is a really good business model. No, yeah, so you're right, DC. DC consultants. And you know how Catherine Campbell, well, she was in the public service, wasn't she? She's just been consulting on Orcas. Maybe she's available to work with us. Maybe she's got some defence documents she can give to EY. Oh, or to D.C.

Yeah, it's fantastic. Get her on the board. But, like, I would be happy, like, presumably the consultant. What, what did you say the EY person's pulling? $2.8 million a year. So we could do it for, like, 10% of that. I'd do. For $2.80, sure.

$2.80, sure. I'd give shit advice for that. I'm sure I could. Yes, and that would provide the government with a sort of level of assurance. Yes. That they're not otherwise getting at the boat. I think it's actually fiscally irresponsible of them. to not use our services.

Well, actually, there's been a lot of scandals. There's another one involving PWC just today that I read. Guardian had a story this morning about a PWC-backed platform that got $33 million from the government without an open tender. Guess what area the app was in? Guess what they were trying to help? Was it something like integrity or something? With mental health.

Yeah, it was a company called Inno Well, and they don't use it anymore. The federal government simply doesn't use this thing anymore. It's essentially a waste of money. And they funded a whole bunch of research, No, and it's Project Synergy. So you could say all that money went down the inner well. It did. It never came out again.

Yeah, so all this money went straight to PWC and their startup, the startup that they backed. And it was a decision at the government of the time. Apparently that's all that the spokesperson said. There's a senior public servant or a former one quoted in the article who said that it's hard to see how a closed tender met a requirement for taxpayer money to be spent efficiently, effectively, economically and ethically. Yeah, I can see that.

Was the idea as well thought out as the COVID-safe app? Was it that sort of level of, we'll do a mental health thing by doing an app that doesn't do anything? Yeah, absolutely. We have to talk more about that app, by the way, COVID-safe, because that was, I think, the most spectacular unsuccessful government of all time. Well, I'd still use it every day. Do you? Do you feel safe?

Yes, well, it's got more life than threads. That's true. And it's less hateful than Twitter. And much better for your mental health, admittedly. But actually, those apps probably make this inner well thing look good. Well, yeah, you can at least laugh at the COVID-safe app. Like, maybe what we want to be is the losing tender. Like, if we could get paid, because I think you'd get paid to prepare a tender.

If we could prepare the worst tender for any government, then they could hire PWC knowing that they'd looked at a worse option. And we could get a kickback from PWC for being so shit that they win the tender. That's what they need. We need someone to come last. a bit of lame competition. I love the tender writing business. And the best thing about it is...

And then you don't have to do the actual work. That's right. No one's ever getting you to do the work. And I don't want to... How boring would that work be? This is the thing. They're... And they call themselves consulting firms.

They're not real... What they are as accounting firms that think they're better than they are. Like, a bunch of accountants pretending that they can do other things as well. Look, I... I've done my fair share of telling people what to do. You often do. I've been in meetings with you where they clearly didn't want to...

to tell them what to do. And you just wait it in and tell them how to fix their business. And admittedly, they probably should have taken your advice. It was free. It was priced at the value that it was worth. Yeah. But look, we once worked for a big company a few years ago. They brought in some consultants.

And it was clear that they went through this whole process and just did exactly what the boss had brought them in to say that he wanted them to do. That's right. Like, essentially, you already know the result. It's just like appearing busy for a few weeks. It vindicates what the boss wanted to do anyway. Yes, I think that is the main thing. And that's why they were so useful to the coalition government

because they were running all these illegal robodet schemes and just like just doing stuff that no public servant, except maybe Catherine Campbell, would ever allow done. So they had to bring in outside people who went, oh, well, my normal job is to be paid to just be a yes man. And you pay a massive amount of money to a consulting firm to tell you to sack people. Yes.

And you pay more money. money than the money you saved by the sacking. That's very clear. Yes. But it's because you don't like that person in accounts or whoever it is. So if someone gives you a bit of a lip in the foyer, you want to sack them. You can't just sack them. It's against the fair work.

Well, I think we'd be very good at that. Yeah. Yeah. So you just basically get the consultants to come in and say, look, we're going to have to make that position redundant. Yes. So your job is essentially to be unlikable. It's a rubber step.

You're getting paid to be hated basically. Ratified. Yeah. You're getting paid to come in and basically be hated by the rest of the workers. Yeah. And you have to, because you're a consultant. you leave. You go there for a few weeks. They all hate you. You get paid for it. Well, then you go to another job. I mean, I provide that service in every workplace. I mean, anyway, I really get paid

for it. I can get disliked, you know, for no money. So do you reckon that's what happened to Catherine Campbell? Some consultants got brought in to Orcas, which is now running. You know, the government whispered going, we've got to get rid of her. I mean, if by consultants, you mean a very expensive and comprehensive Royal Commission, yeah, sure. They did look at what she did, and they figured out they could probably cope without it. Look, Catherine, I'm just going to say, I wasn't in the room. Yeah, but no person losing their job is a happy day for anyone. Well.

No, except for Philip. Yeah, yeah. And maybe Catherine. But I suspect, where had I been in the room, it might have been clear to me that the former government were fairly comfortable with whistles not being blown over this whole thing. Getting a computer to go through and catch welfare sheets. I don't imagine it would have been hugely beneficial to her long-term employment prospect if she'd been going, you can't do that, Scott Morrison. Yes, yes.

You can't, Christian Porter, no, there's a law. That's not going to be conducive to keeping you 900 grand a year job. So what you're saying is she should immediately apply for whistleblower protection, even though she didn't blow a whistle. Yeah, because maybe she needs protection for not blowing a whistle. Yes, exactly, because she was too scared. Yeah. Well, you know what, she needs a new job.

It's entirely possible that the seat of cook is coming up very soon in the lower house. Oh, wouldn't that be just. The seat of cook and she could run for that. Yes. And that way she could be, you know, the next time round, rather than being the public servant who has to do all this and get in trouble, she could just be the minister who doesn't have any consequences for the scheme. So she's currently worrying the consequences.

Where you want to be is the minister who approved the scheme and essentially ordered the public service to do it. That was her mistake. That's her mistake. She was the wrong point in the process. Yes. Mind you, isn't that that usually goes to a man

that part of the process? Oh, yeah. Wouldn't it be progressive, though, if the minister who completely ignored any human decency was a woman, that would be the glass ceiling breaking? Yeah, it would be a step up in progress.

Very inspiring thought at the start of the Women's World Cup. Thanks for listening. Who's from Road? We're part of the Iconclass network and we'll catch you next time. See ya. Thank you for your pay.

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