The Chaser Report - SPECIAL: BEN ROBERTS-SMITH IS A WAR CRIMINAL

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

Enjoy this episode before it gets taken down when Benny inevitably appeals. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Chaser Report is recorded on Gatigall Land. Striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence, this is The Chaser Report. Hello and welcome to The Chaser Report with Dom and Charles. Dom, this is a special afternoon edition because yesterday, Ben Robert Smith was unfairly judged a war criminal. Yeah, look, we've got to be very clear and careful and fair to Ben Robert Smith, because I must say, I've found the Herald a little bit gleeful. Oh, gleeful. Yes. A little bit boastful even, given its complete victory over Ben Robert Smith yesterday. I feel like they've rubbed it in that he's a war criminal.

Yes, that's right. They've sort of used this opportunity to 42 days before he inevitably launches appeal when it is completely legal to call Ben Robert Smith a war criminal because he is a war criminal and he's been judged a war criminal and he's a murderer to actually say all those things, which I think is very gleeful. It's very, yes. It's also prejudicial to the High Court judges who will probably hear the appeal.

Let's talk about that in a sec. So the headline, shortly after the decision yesterday, if you looked at SMH.com.com.com, capital letters, defamation case thrown out, and then here's the headline that I bet they spent days working on. Murderer, war criminal, bully, colon, Robert Smith loses landmark action, major victory for SMH. So, even reporting. Yeah, yeah, sort of even-handed.

Yeah, independent always, as they say. And Charles, I think it's important to note. It wasn't, he wasn't found criminally guilty. He wasn't found guilty of a crime. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. This wasn't a criminal proceedings. No. This was merely a judge spending literally years reviewing the evidence of what he did.

110 days, I believe, of evidence was given by the people who were there with him. Yes. Extensively, exhaustively. a judge heard all of that and said he's a fucking criminal. So he wasn't convicted as a criminal. He just has been called a criminal essentially by a judge. That's right. And I think it's also clear to note that it was only after the testimony of many, many, many people that the judge reached this conclusion.

And in fact, I think it was so many people that Ben Robert Smith's side complained of how many witnesses there were against him. Well, that's what you want to do. I mean, I've never been in a war zone, Charles. Yes. But if I was, and I was worried, if there were too many witnesses, I'd shoot some. That's what I'd do. Well, I think this is the problem that he faced.

But the thing is, why did the Sydney Morning Herald bring this case in the first place? Did they want to prove that Ben Robert Smith, like, I don't quite understand their motivation for bringing this case. Charles? Ben Robert Smith brought the case to restore his reputation. His theory was, I presume, all these things have been public. my reputation's in ruin. I'm going to deny them

and I'm going to take it to court. And Kerry Stokes, the billionaire who owns the West Australian and seven and so on. And who employs Ben Robertson. He's been on leave for a very long time. He helped with the money, from what I understand. He lent him millions of dollars

or whatever it was to fund the action. They're saying it's a $25 million cost. Yes, potentially. So I think Kerry Stokes can afford it. I think you might have to afford it, potentially. Yes. So, yes, he completely backed Ben Roberts. Smith to the hilt.

And we haven't yet heard quite how he's taking the news. He says it doesn't tally with the Ben Robert Smith that he knew. Right. That the guy who came and wanted a job from him didn't show the murdering side, apparently, in the job interview. Do you think maybe Kerry Stokes is just a little bit scared of Ben Robert Smith? Well, you know what I was thinking. Having heard the testimony.

I had a very straight, or particularly if he's got a prosthetic leg. I don't know whether Kerry Stokes has both legs, but if he's got any body prostheses, I think they're going to be taken as a trophy quite soon. Well, it is interesting because after the result yesterday afternoon, Alexer Vullivich, you remember Chaser Intern, friend of the show. Now, you should megastar, yeah. Texted me saying, where's that leggy? Because he built a leggy prop for a stunt that we did a couple of years ago.

And I took it on tour last year. I mean, it was, I'm surprised it didn't trend the hashtag put out your prosthesis yesterday. But it is true. We cracked open. We had a nice leggy around the table to celebrate. the victory. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You cracked out the leggy? Yeah, you had it. Well, I mean, I think that that's going to be the, I can't believe the Chaser hasn't actually launched a series of prosthetic leg-based drinking vessels to celebrate this event. So, Charles, what I thought we might do, just to be fair to Ben Robert Smith, because he denies it, it's likely he'll appeal. Yes, yes.

I just want to go through, I want listeners to make up their own mind, okay? Just because a judge exhaustively reviewed the evidence for several years. Yes. And found that he was definitely not defamed. In fact, that he had done the things that, I think you should make up. your own mind. Rather than the actual court, let's have the court of public opinion. Just to give Ben Robert Smith, you know, as a decorated war veteran, a fair hearing here on the podcast. Yes. Even though he's definitely lost to the case. And a Victoria Cross recipient.

This is the sort of character that Victoria Cross people get. Yeah, it's also a medal for gallantry or something too. He's got multiple decorated. He's the most decorated living soldier is Ben Roberts, Smith. And his uniform, I think, is at the war memorial. I really hope the leggy ends up there. Does it suggest, Don, that the best soldiers happen to also be murderers? Like, that's quite a good overlap and sort of qualification for being a soldier is to be a murderer.

You've got to be good at murdering. I mean, it's part of the... But I guess the thing is that a great many of his colleagues were appalled by the behaviour and reported it. Isn't that? So even these other killing machines who are there killing alongside him in the killing trenches in the killing war, they felt he went too far, right? So there actually was a line that was clearly understood by people in the SAS who went,

yeah, I think we might have to report that. Let's go through the list. Let's go through this list. So I'm quoting a Sydney Morning Herald here, which is a neutral source on this, of course. The allegations that were found substantially true include, this is going to be a bit dark, but I think we should face up to the reality of what Australian soldiers. Yeah, no, exactly. Robert Smith murdered an unarmed and defenceless African citizen, Ali Jam.

in September 2012, by kicking him off a cliff and procuring the soldiers under his command to shoot him. It seems a bit much, Charles, to kick someone off a cliff and then shoot them. And then shoot them. It's a bit... Yeah, just one or the other, surely. It seems excessive to me.

He broke the moral and legal rules of military engagement and he's therefore a criminal. He's one of the things that the judge found. So it's not a criminal trial, but it's a trial that found him to be a criminal. It's a slight distinction, but it's out there. He disgraced his country, Australia, and the Australian army by his conduct as a member of the SA,

in Afghanistan. So within the world of elite killing squads, Charles, he was a disgrace to an elite killing squad. And look, I mean, there's not even the worst thing that he's done in his life. You know, he also was an executive for Channel 7. In Queensland. In Queensland.

What is there to do, isn't it? Do they produce anything in television in Queensland? I suppose it's just news. Can you imagine Ben Robertsman being in charge of the seven news? He's the cash cow. Oh my God. He's the cash cow. That's why they had to protect his reputation.

I think, Charles, I think he's actually a cash burden. He's putting a lot of cash in a hole. But wouldn't that be amazing if it was surprise? Okay, going on through the list. He committed another murder on Easter Sunday 2009 by pressuring a newly deployed and inexperienced SAS soldier to execute an elderly unarmed Afghan in order to blood the rookie. That's not in the recruiting brochures, Charles, is it?

For the ADF, that at some point, if you join up, you'll get your training and then you've got to shoot an old guy who's defenseless. I don't think people would sign up. up if they knew that. We went to an all-boys school, Dom. I mean, there are hazing. There are hazing. Like, I sort of feel like, I mean, it's bad.

It's bad. It involves murder. I'm not saying it's good. I guess you've got to ask yourself, do you want to be one of the boys or not? Exactly. Sure, you can stand there and not shoot the old defenceless African guy, but then he won't be one of the boys. Boys will be boys.

Yeah. It was just locker room murdering. But again, that a lot of his colleagues thought went too far. Anyway, he committed a. I'm still quoting the Herald here. He committed a third murder. So this is a body card here. Oh, my good, yeah.

By machine gunning a man with a prosthetic leg on the Easter Sunday mission. Hence the leggy. I mean, I think, again, do you need a machine gun for someone with a prosthetic leg? They're not going to run far, are they? I mean, come on. It just, again, it seems very excessive to me, Charles. Yeah, so is your objection, not so much the murdering, but just the excessive nature of each murder?

I think, can I have both? Okay, he was so callous. inhumane, and this is again quoting what the judge found, that he took the prosthetic leg back to Australia and encouraged his soldiers to use it as a novelty beer drinking vessel.

I mean, Charles... Haven't we all done that with people we've murdered though? I mean, no, not a leg, you know, but whatever prosthetic limb that they had. I mean, often the people you murdered don't have prostheses and it makes it harder to do this.

But look, I mean, it was sitting there. What's he supposed to do? He's finished out a rough day of machine gunning harmless people. Craig would have... approved because it's like a keep cup isn't it's a keep cup it's a keep leg Charles can you after this go and going to an order commemorative keep cups yeah as much and you could write the word guilty he wasn't guilty he was just found not to have been defamed in all the all the

entire case was thrown out as deputy commander of the 2009 SAS patrol on Easter Sunday why on Easter Sunday of all those anyway he acquiesced in the execution of an unarmed Afghan by a junior trooper in his patrol. So again, another kind of blooding, it seems. Then he bullied a fellow soldier, person one. Now, come on. I mean, shooting people from the other side or civilians. It's bad.

That's bad, but bullying your own, Ben. Yeah, come on. That's where he should get that medal for gallantry torn from him. Yeah, because you don't bully your mates. No. Mates don't bully. Actually, mates do fucking bully mates. I remember in the early days of the chaser here.

I'm still recovering for the hate. back in those days. Okay, so he bullied person. And that person we made you murder, Dom. Remember that? That wasn't a good day, although I did use a machine gun, which made it more enjoyable for me. He bashed an unarmed Afghan in the face with his fists and in the stomach with his knee,

and in so doing, alarmed two patrol commanders to the extent that they ordered him to back off. Again, he's going beyond even the line within the SAS, the judge found. Okay, what else? More, as patrol commander in Twitter. It's quite a long list. Charles, isn't he? This is a very long list.

As patrol commander in 2012, he authorised the assault of an unarmed African who was being held in custody and posed no threat, so bashing a defenceless prisoner. Right, yeah. And again, assaulted an unarmed prison guard. He could, he could. He assaulted an unarmed Afghan in 2012. I mean, look, those skills would have been very useful in the corporate boardroom, wouldn't they? Yes.

In Channel 7? Well, the number of Afghans you come across in the corporate boardroom. But if there were any, he would have sorted them right out. Yeah. The thing is he's a very big guy. I don't know whether you have the same thought that I did. I was looking at just photos of him again yesterday, this person who's been found to be a war criminal.

He's over two metres. He's massive. And it made me think, you know how there was all the controversy about who should play Jack Reacher? Actually, Ben Robertsmith is Jack Reacher. He's an ex-soldier who's very good at killing people. Jack Reacher had a code of honour. Yeah, but Jack Reacher had ethics.

I know, and he thought about things. but he just goes to show how terrifying a real-life Jack Richard would be because Jack Reacher must commit, I don't know, 50 plus extrajudicial murders during the course of the series. And I still read them and I really enjoy them and are like, oh, they're great guy, really great guy, and very good at murdering. And I'm now wondering whether I should revise my ethical position. I guess the thing is they deserved it, Charles, whereas unarmed civilians.

No, yeah, there was no... It's all most like Ben Roberts Smith had a code of dishonour, isn't he? I think that's what the judge might have found. The more defenceless, the better. So, yeah, so if Jack Reacher, instead of just, you know, writing wrongs in various small towns are getting on Greyhound buses, if he just caught on Greyhound buses, it just started laying into old people. Yeah.

If you saw a prosthetic limb, you're like, oh, that's a trophy. I actually know what his next gig should be. Oh, really? Yeah, which is, because Channel 7 still has him on the books. They've got to place him somewhere. They've got to decide what to do with him. he would make the perfect host for deal or no deal. Deal or no, oh, my God.

Don't you reckon? Oh, how terrifying. On that point, Charles, I'm not thinking of this because of any previous host of of a deal or no deal or anything like that. One interesting detail while we go through the record is that the judge found that the newspapers hadn't established that Robert Smith had committed an act of, oh, domestic violence against a former lover. So they hadn't proved that.

However, and having read out the list, this kind of makes sense to me now, even if that wasn't true, it wouldn't have been defamatory because of all the war crimes. If you've been found to be a multiple murderer and war criminal, it turns out that apparently your reputation can't get worse with other crimes. So they got off on that way. Yeah, and I think he also said that there was a contextual truth to it, although he didn't necessarily find that that thing had happened, that there was a sort of general vibe that it could have happened.

I mean, after you've established that kind of 10 plus bashings had happened, you know, this person. What's an 11th? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that's kind of where the judge was going on that one. Not that I want to make any comparisons with anyone who might have, you know, been involved in deal or no deal on the past. One important thing to note about Ben Robert Smith, Charles, is that he wasn't there in the court. No, he's over in Bali. He's in Bali. Yeah, commiserating over a leggy, I think. Do you think he was given the list of the 20 actions that Australians shouldn't do while they're visiting? You know how they're doing that now? If you land at Bali Airport with an Australian passport, you get a do and don't list.

I just really hope they had a Ben Roberts-Smith specific one. Yeah, that's right. If you don't see any prosthetics and feel that you should drink alcohol out of them. He's so good at following the rules, though. Like, I'm not sure that necessarily would help Don. Yeah, that's true. Arguably there was a rule book, wasn't it? I think the Geneva Convention, is that what it's called?

It's to do with war crimes. They hand him a copy of the Geneva Convention upon arrival to Bali. So what does he do? I mean, there's two paths here, Charles, it seems to me. There's probably three parts at the very least. Let's go through what they are. Path one, he appeals.

And this just continues to go on. And then presumably, unless the judge was incompetent about finding these facts, then the appeal will be potentially be denied, but we don't know. Point two, there's now a criminal investigation because he's been found in court to be a war criminal. And you'd imagine, I would have thought,

I don't know if this is true, Charles, but I would have thought that the ADF, upon someone being, you know, established as a war criminal in court, might want to investigate. Do you think they'd investigate that kind of thing? No, not really that interested, actually. I mean, the victims have been shot now.

You can't testify. You can't unshoot. They can't unshoot it. So that's a possibility, possibly, I don't know if it will happen. And the other thing is that he just continues to go around and lives free and his reputation is in tatters amongst some. But maybe there'll be still, maybe there'll be truthers. who believe his side of the story.

Well, the thing is, the member for Cook, Scott Morrison, is rumoured to be resigning in the next few months. Oh. I'm wondering whether he would make perfect material to be pre-selected as the Liberal Party candidate in the seat of Cook. That's one job within the Australian government that Scott Morrison didn't want, isn't it? Serving in battle.

Why is possible? I don't know that the voters of Cook would necessarily welcome. and Ben Robert Smith with open arms. PWC are looking for a new CEO. Well, you know PWC offering a partnership. I know, exactly. So their ethics is... You look like you don't have any ethics.

Let's just review the PWC hiring that we know. Ben Robert Smith, they tried to hire and couldn't get him. Scott Morrison, reputational damage. So there's a line that Scott Morrison did not pass that Ben, Robert Smith did. That's, I mean, I suppose at PWC, morale's probably pretty low. That's probably the one thing they're relieved about right now as they didn't hype. Ben Robert Smith? Can I just ask, do judges still wear sort of long robes?

Yes, they do. Yeah, right. So in some ways, they look a little bit like an Afghan farmer, don't they? They're very old and defenseless. Yes. I mean, well, the judge in this case is old. I saw a photo of him. He must be in his late 60s by now, I think.

So, mid to late 60s. So do you think there is a risk that, you know, hobbling along the street, this judge, you know, gets misidentified by Ben as an Afghan farmer. You can't, you can't say that. You can't, you can't, he wouldn't, he wouldn't kill. He wouldn't kill an Aussie. You wouldn't kill a fucking Aussie. He'd bully the Aussie and he'd get the Aussie to kill other people to blood him.

That judge would get blooded, wouldn't he? Ben-Owitzman Smith and hand him a rifle and hand him a civilian and say, have at him. That's the whole thing. The judge hadn't been blooded yet. God. A major day for the media, Charles. Do you know what Nines lawyers apparently did? This is, it was something that came out.

I saw it on Twitter. I imagine they went to the pub last night. No, they were in the conference room at Nines Corporate Tower. Oh, yeah. So this was leaked. I saw this on Twitter. I can't completely say it's true. I don't want to defame anybody.

But apparently they're quite good at winning lawsuits. The, someone ordered for a couple of cases of beer and bottle of wines. And then as a couple. And an afterthought, I think six cases of wine. I don't know if they asked for any prosthetic legs, but they could be forgiven, I think. But then as an afterthought, oh, and some cheesels. One of the biggest defamation victories in Australian legal history,

and Nines lawyers had a bit of fun with cheesels. Oh, it's so nice. I mean, it's better than partying with a prosthetic leg of someone you've killed. Our gears from road. We're part of the Iconiclass Network. See you next time.