The Chaser Report - The Leeser of Two Evils

Episode Date: April 11, 2023

Dom and Charles discuss the details of Liberal MP Julian Lesser's resignation from the Liberal front-bench. Was Charles right? Leave a review with your thoughts using the secret word "bumpickle". Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Chaser Report is recorded on Gatigal Land. Striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence, this is The Chaser Report. Hello and welcome to The Chaser Report with Dom and Charles. Hang on, no, Charles, I'm resigning. I've got a principled objection. Look, you and I got together many years ago in a room and came out with a concept called the Chaser Report. Yes. And I think your subsequent behaviour has completely undermined the nature of this.

I can't do it anymore. on principle then I'm moving to the backbench of the podcast and what I propose to do is that as you continue with the podcast I will heckle and I will try to put you off and interrupt and that will allow me to exercise the freedom which I believe is my right uniquely within this podcast format unlike every other podcast except for the Greens or One Nation or any of the

yes but go on yes yes and I do so because I've learned from Julian Lisa in the past little while that freedom of conscience and being able to say what you want is enormously important. Where was Julie and Lisa at any point in the last 10 years

of the shit show that the Liberal Party had while he was in government? Is this the first thing in the last 10 years? For 10 years his government, the Libs, were in power.

Did you hear his press conference? And now that he's suddenly out of power, He suddenly finds a conscience. He says he tried to convince them, Charles. What he said was, I spent many, a long time trying to convince my colleagues. This was a good idea. I guess that was 10 years because he came out with the idea very long. He was in the room, apparently, the notion of a voice was actually invented.

Well, this is the tweet that he put out just a few minutes ago. So Julian Lisa was the Indigenous Affairs spokesman for the Libs. Obviously, the Libs last week said that they weren't going to support the voice at all. They were going to bind against the voice. And so he put out a tweet saying, almost 10 years ago, I sat down with a small group of constitutional conservatives and indigenous leaders and worked on a proposal for constitutional recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Australia, Australians.

The idea we developed was different. It was organic. It was consistent with our constitutional heritage. And it was a uniquely Australian idea designed for Australian conditions. the proposal was called the voice. Which I must say, given that the TV show The Voice, I think started in about 2012. Yes.

I bold to steal the name even then. But anyway, so just as a sidebar, Julian Leicester is the, was the Shadow Indigenous Affairs spokesperson because Ken Wyatt is no longer part of the party. I don't know if he loses his seat, I think he might have. But he was an Indigenous Affairs spokesperson. Julian Leicester is not. He is now, Ken Wyatt, by the way, quit the Liberal Party completely on the weekend.

Over this issue. Anyway, point is, at any point, Julian Lisa could have resigned in the last 10 years over principles of conscience. Like, surely there were other things that went against his court. Or is this the first thing that has ever happened in the Liberal Party that requires him to exercise a conscience? Is he fine with everything else that has happened in the last 10 years? But, Charles, look, Julian Lisa, he... He's a lifelong conservative. Yes.

That means he's a believer in the status quo. Yes. So whatever the status quo may have been, presumably, yes. That was what he was okay with, and then he was okay with that. Is he someone whose job was taken by Scott Morrison, by the way, at any point?

Was he a minister in the Morrison government? I don't know that he was. I don't know whether he was, yeah. But presumably he was okay with that status quo as well, until that was no longer the status quo. It's tough being a conservative because the status quo does keep changing as things evolve. Yes, but surely the status quo,

status quo now is to not... Anyway, look, point is I have a very personal beef with this because, as you know, we actually went to uni alongside Julian and Lisa. He was at a different university. He was around. He's certainly around in the sort of... He was

certainly a big figure in the young monochist circles. They weren't many. There weren't many in the tent, but he was the leader of those. It was a very small tent. Australians for constitutional monarchy. So even then, even then he was very much the constitutional conservative. And the only one, I think, below the age of 30.

But anyway, so we were discussing it because my wife actually debated with him quite a lot when we were, you know, like 20 years ago. As did I? As did I? And she went, oh, Julian and Lisa, like, he may be a conservative, but, you know, he's a man of principle. He'll resign over this, right? And I said, no way. He's a cynic. He's a careerist.

He's going to bind in behind Dutton. And he's going to go full tilt on delivering. a no vote and fucking over indigenous people across Australia. You thought he wouldn't do this. I thought he wouldn't do this. And so we had a long discussion

and I just went, no way. He is staying. He is staying. He is staying, right? This was like yesterday. Because this is the most senior job he's had. He was shadow attorney general as well. So a very senior coalition front venture

until the resignation. So this is the highest he's ever, and then he stepped away from it. So the point is, though, that he completely proved. me wrong, which I hate, right? And, but, so this is the thing, right? So, I think in some ways, though, I am right.

Oh, right. So even though he did actually, like, all the facts looked like. So your wife accurately predicted exactly what he did today. Yes. But I think that at some level, I am right. Oh. Because this is the ultimate careerist move. If you think about it, a lot, right?

I'm curious to see how this was, given that it sounds on, like, on the fact. It sounds as though you were completely 100% wrong. Yes. And your wife was absolutely right. Yes. About Julian Lisa. Well, maybe just, you know, if you look at sort of... The prediction that was made.

The surface facts. Okay. I want to hear you argue this around as to why you were right. Come on. But the reason why I was thinking he wouldn't resign is because he's a careerist. He wants to, you know, ultimately become a very senior Liberal Party politician, right? And my assumption was, well, the way to do that is to hang on to your job, right? But think about it, maybe the ultimate careerist move at this point

is to abandon the sinking ship that is the HMAS Dutton and move to the back bench knowing that it's a bit, the HMS AS Dutton is sort of almost like the HMAS Morrison was before it sank, right, except maybe with fewer embarrassing sort of photo ops in hairdressers. I love that you're using boat metaphors, by the way, given all that they've both said about stopping them, But anyway. Anyway, pointing out, my point is that actually at this point,

the careerist move for any lib who wants to actually have a career is to abandon the opposition to the voice, move to the back bench, and then eventually they'll be proved right, you know, Dutton will... And they'll take over the new party. Yes, exactly. I read a very interesting op-ed a couple of days ago. I think it was in the New Daily, arguing. that basically they have to completely reinvent themselves

like the New South Wales Liberal Party. The problem that the coalition has that it's run by Queenslanders where there's the LNP, there's no differentiation between liberal and national, basically. And what's happened is that that's drawn the party far to the right. And so what they need, if they're actually going to win back voters and elections and seats like in the TIL seats,

they have to completely start again. So yes, maybe you're right. Maybe this is the beginning of the new liberal Party and the bizarre thing is you wouldn't have thought that Julian Lisa as a very died in the wall conservative would be the one to lead anything new it's off brand for him

it doesn't do new The Chaser Report Less News Less often This article actually I should remember who wrote it But I can't actually said that the obvious leader for the new liberal party was Bridget Archer The backbencher who basically says no to all the noes

Yes Basically she's essentially an independent MP like that is a liberal. So what you're talking about is a new liberal party that supports the voice, presumably supports change on climate change. Yeah.

What else? What else? Sort of housing affordability. You know, like what does it do? Action. Centrist action. Centrist action. So socially progressive.

Economic conservative national security. So essentially the Labor Party. Yeah. We've just solved it. There should be a couple of of National Unity. I should just told you. Like, everyone who's disappointed by Labor,

and everyone is disappointed by which is everyone. The New South Wales strain of the rule party, which is everyone. So won't they be delighted to see the government of national unity who everyone dislikes equally? It'll be like Saddam Hussein,

where he gets, like, remember he used to get like 99.6% of the vote? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It'll be like that. So we've absolutely solved it. So you think this is both a principle and a principled and utterly careerist move.

Oh, brilliant. It's brilliant cynicism. On a point of principle, to quit. So it looks like you're being all principled. But in fact, you're just lining yourself up to lead the Liberal Party. The new Liberal Party. The thing I'm confused by is he's made it very clear that he's campaigning for a yes vote, right? He's come out and said, look, I think there's a problem with proposal.

I want to change a proposal, but I'm campaigning for yes. Yes. Which is a bit odd because he wants to edit the text. but then vote yes anyway to the text it's there so I don't really understand that but also Julian Lisa is saying yes to a constitutional change how has this happen

who got to him next he'll be lining up to do a republic who got to Jill this is not the Julian Lisa we know from the public debate I don't know well this is why I say I don't think it's real I think it's cynicism I think he's looked at the polling numbers and he's gone which way is the wind blowing

it's not blowing in favour of HMAS Dutton are you thinking later by Christmas Oh, I'm saying leader by the end of the Easter break. Really? So the end of the school holidays. By the end of the Easter school holidays, here's a big call from Charles Firth. And look, I've never been wrong before if you drill down from the deal down. Is that Julie and Lisa will be the opposition leader by the end of the school holidays.

You know what though, Charles, you know what he's done? He went out of his way in his statement, in his written statement and in the press conference, Charles. He went out of his way to say he fully supports Peter Dutton's leadership. Which is what they say! It's on! It's on! It's what they say, isn't it? I remember when Paul Keating said that he supported Bob Hawke's leadership when he went to the back bench. Do you remember when Julie Gillard said she had more chance of being a full forward for the Western Bulldogs,

thereby trying to suck up to voters in her electorate, than becoming Prime Minister in place of Kevin Rudd? Well, no, she was Prime Minister within weeks. Well, Dom, you at the beginning of this podcast announced that you were moving to the back bench of this Chaser Report, podcast, do I have your full support? Absolutely, you do. And I'm expecting to be the solo host of this podcast by the end of the year's to break. Fuck, shit. So, Charles, what does this then mean for the voice, for the ongoing debate?

Is Julian and Lisa going to influence anybody here? Is he going to help save the yes case that he thinks needs saving? Well, I think there's a couple of steps here, which is, okay, we had Ken White resign over the weekend from the legal party. Julian and Lisa has done it on Tuesday Surely this is a drip, drip, drip, drip. And I'm not talking about Peter Dutton. I'm talking about the process by which.

You're talking about the boats that he didn't let in that then sank. Yeah. But I'm talking about the fact that surely there will be now other less senior Liberal Party colleagues who will now drift to the back bench. Well, who's the senior moderate, Simon Birmingham, isn't it? Is he his shadow... Well, no, Simon Birmingham's already stated.

his claim in lack of principle, which is that he doesn't agree with the decision to bind for no, but he's just going to be quiet about it. Oh, that's right. So as a member of Shadow Cabinet, he's bound to pursue the party's position. He's bound to just do something that he really profoundly thinks he's wrong. Yeah, yeah. But the happy medium is just go, yeah, then don't talk about it. So if you can't think of a nice way to say no, don't.

Don't say no idea. Well, as they always say, philosophers always say, you know, evil reigns. I mean, evil doesn't, no, evil, what's it? The one thing that takes is for evil to raid is for good people to remain silent. Yeah, that's right. Something like that. The point being that we're from here, well, I think, first of all, the whole, the Liberal Party politics has to play out, which I think will actually take several weeks of just drip, drip,

drip people leaving and it all splitting apart. And then there'll be this, as you say, small radical rump left who are vociferously arguing no, but they'll have no real relevance. Like if any of the arguments that came out over the weekend against the voice is anything to go by, there's basically no real case against the voice. The weird thing about the no case.

They just want details. They want details. They want details, John. But no, but the bizarre thing is, he's petted up and calls it a Canberra voice and said it's going to be this sort of national body you know dictating to the parliament but I guess now I see the virtue of what the government was trying to do

by having absolutely no details you can't really run a scare campaign against like with no details when the whole idea is well we'll figure it out as the parliament you'll be in the room where we vote on what it is and so Julian Lisa is clearly gone well okay we'll just sort it out through the parliamentary process and I think in fairness to the proposal all. The idea is that the representative body of sort of 24 people who would constitute the voice would come from places other than Canberra. There would be representatives from

remote communities. Now, you know, far be it from me to suck up to the remote community bubble that is such a problem in this sort of world. But, like, yeah, like, I think that the whole Canberra bubble thing got it sort of about five seconds of play, and then everyone realized that it's a very problematic argument to run because essentially part of it is saying, oh, well, there's all these indigenous people and they've all been made professors, and they'll end up on there.

And then you've got this whole problem of sort of going, well, so you don't think indigenous people should have... Professor Megan Davis, who's been a big part of this? You don't want indigenous people to get an education? Is that where you're heading down now? The other funny thing is that he said, look, the coalition supports regional and local voices, right? So what that there means is if that happens,

you've got, I don't know, 70, 80 different mini-bodies all making proposals. Yes. Do they, does the Prime Minister have to read through all of them before making a decision? Without a national voice to actually pull these things together, how can the process even work? No, Dom, you misunderstand.

What they want is Indigenous people to be able to influence local councils and state parliaments, right? So, you know, as long as all they look at is, things like garbage collection times and, you know, whether the graffiti is cleaned up at the local bus stop. That's the sort of issues that Indigenous people are allowed to have a voice in. Is there anything to do with federal politics, then they've got to fuck off. But then, even if the Prime Minister had to be consulted, they could just go, look, I read all through all 80 submissions. There's no common ground here. I'm terribly sorry, there's clearly not. If only

there were one voice speaking to bring together these threads. But there isn't. So we're just we're just going to do what we're going to do anyway. Okay, well, there you go. Dom, I'm sad to see you go. It's the right thing to do. It's the right thing for me and my family and for the country. Yes. And it's the right thing for you, Charles, frankly. Well, I look forward to your ongoing support from the back bin. Yep. That's right. And I'll be right behind you. Within stabbing difference. What's that? What's that? What's that? What do you do? Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! At last. There's one voice we're not going to miss.

Aggies from Road, we're part of the iconoclast podcast network. I say we, but it's actually just me now. Bastard.