The Chaser Report - Turn UP The Heat! | Tom Ballard

Episode Date: May 7, 2023

Charles and Dom are joined by leader of the Greens, Tom Ballard! Tom talks about what it's like to perform in Edinburgh, the entire history of referendums in Australia, and his new show 'It Is I'. Plus Charles pitches some ideas for how Tom can improve the Green's chances of election.Tickets for Tom's show can be found here! Buy them and discover why Andrew Bolt has described him as 'a true barbarian.'Also listen to Tom's Greenie podcast 'Serious Danger' and check out his book 'I Millenial'. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence, this is The Chaser Report. Hello and welcome to The Chaser Report with Dom and Charles. Hello, Charles. Hello. And Tom Ballard is with us. He's got a show. It is I touring at the Sydney Comedy Festival, 11th and 12th of May, in Brisbane, 20th and 21st of May. And in Edinburgh, for those listening in Edinburgh, 30th of July to the 13th of August.

There might be one. Who knows? Tom Ballard, hello, welcome back. Oh, hi, I love the chaser. I'm mad for the chaser. I love their take or Australian politics. Oh, wow, we've got a Scottish guest from the early 2000s. Wait a minute, would that be racist?

That's racist, isn't it? You're not allowed to do accents anymore. You'll be cancelled. Aye, it's racist. Are you Scottish? I'm part Scottish, so I'm allowed to do that, I think. Aren't I? Is that the rule?

No. No? Is all accents a band now? If you did 23 to me. Oh, Jesus Christ, you can't say anything anymore. PC got mad. It's just so woke. I don't know.

The wholeness is out of control. Can I ask, what's it like doing Edinburgh? Is it, like, how big is your venue? Because my understanding is you go over to Edinburgh and you flush from sell out at the town hall for the entire Melbourne Comedy Festival and you arrive as an Australian. You get put in a 40-seat.

and you go, oh, well, this is not going to pay the way or whatever. And then you realize, oh, the reason I'm in a 40-seater is because zero people want to come and you then end up pamphleting half the day and then you get like one granny comes along halfway through your run. Is that how it works or? I think certainly at the worst end of it, that's a pretty good description. Yeah, I've certainly, in my first couple of years, this will be my fifth, Admiral, I think, in my first couple of years over there being recognised by Australians as I was flying from

my show was deeply humiliating but that's kind of part of the deal really yeah no one gives a shit and as an Australian particularly no one cares about you at all Adam hills had to spend I think a decade actually working up the audience before he sort of broke through and the British people would allow this little uh so-and-so from the colonies to break through and be a popular comedian in their country it's just um how big's like adelaide fringe times 20 yeah how big my I'll be in a hundred cedar yes I'll be a hundred cedar which yeah, for a fifth time. It's in Monkey Barrel Comedy Club,

so it's like a full-time comedy club throughout the year, and that's kind of the cool place to be. But I'm highly, if I get 30 people, my open, is that why we're not doing the podcast in Edinburgh this year, Charles.

It's right. And do you have to go to, like, do you do those, I've heard horror stories about sort of late night, sort of death match, comedy things,

where you go and you have to do five minutes. Like a sort of open, yeah, it's like an open mic. for comedians where if you don't make them laugh within the first 30 seconds, you literally get lynched by drunken Edinburgh mobs. Yes, the legendary place is the Bear Pit, which used to be the gilded balloon. Legend was, yes, that you would be heckled as soon as you stepped onto stage.

People would have glass bottles thrown at them. If you tried to tell any of your jokes, they hated that. That made them even angrier, apparently. The audience hated you in any way trying to do it. material. So, and there's a classic story. I think Ross Noble walked out on stage. He was emceeing. And before he'd even got the mic, got to the mic, someone yelled out, why are you so fat? And when Ross Noble arrived at the microphone, he turned to them and said, because every time I fuck your mother, she gives me a biscuit. And apparently that was a brilliant response.

Very Oscar Wilding response to those kind of insults. That has all died away these days. I've been to late and live now, and it just seems like a pretty standard late-night gig. And if people heckle, people go, shut up, we're trying to listen to comedy here. So, again, wokeness strikes again, and you can't see it. Oh, bloody, wokeness, making venues bearable. Oh, horrible. So, Tom, look, I've got to ask you, because I know you did a comedy lecture. And generally, generally the notions of comedy and of a lecture, those are Venn diagrams

that don't intersect as a general rule. And yet, in your capable hands, I'm sure they did, what were you, what were you, were lecturing your audience about and how did it go? Someone was saying, I think Sam Torton was saying to somebody else, he said, I'm going to see Ballard's lecture and they said, oh, you mean just a conversation with Tom Ballard? But no, it was an official show that I charged people money for. And I did it in 2016, I did show called Boundless Plains a Share.

That was about Australia's refugee policy. Very funny stuff. This time around, I turned my eye to the voice referendum that's happening this year and sort of zooming out a little bit and looking at the big picture, the history of referenda in Australia and how fucked up and insanely hard it is to change our constitution, why we suck at it so bad

and why I think that's a pretty crappy thing. I'm going to guess that nobody's previously divided an hour of the moment comedy festival to the high bar for referenda in Australian politics. Is that true? Barry Humphrey shouldn't do a show on that. I don't think. He didn't have the guts.

Yes, no, it was a very niche area. It allows me to have a PowerPoint, like all good lectures, so I have funny pictures and stuff. Yes, I thought about, for some reason, I thought about that would be a good idea for a show at some point, and then, you know, between me having that idea and us coming into this year, of course, the government announced that we're having a referenda. So if there was any of time to do it, it's surely this one. And it was just, it was interesting because I generally didn't know all those failed referenda that hadn't got up. I had heard those numbers, but only said yes, eight times out of 44, but I guess I had a

never heard anyone talk about how would Australia be different if those referenda had got up and what exactly were people going to the polls for about that and so I wanted to dive into that and found out some pretty interesting stuff some very boring stuff as well which I tried to I don't yeah I don't know I studied constitutional law and I they didn't bother if they did I didn't remember the failed referenda of the past that's a lot of it's a lot of nose isn't it reminds me of my dating life hey there's how you fill it out Referative content. You can borrow that.

That's good stuff. Yeah, well, mainly in the first half of the 20th century, the story is of labor governments asking for more power to try and, you know, make people's lives better, like have greater Commonwealth power over parts of the economy so that they could construct something like an Australian New Deal. That's certainly what John Curtin was going for in 1944. And again and again, Australia said, no, no, no, no, no. and so we'd probably be a much more robust social democracy

if a lot of them had got up. But of course, anyone could say that's socialism and that's the worst thing in the whole world. And so we scared people into saying no, plus there was this very high bar to actually get the change through. And bingo bingo, we've got the holed out liberal democracy

that we have today. It's just worth noting, by the way, as we get into this, that there isn't such a thing as too politically nerdy for this podcast. It's very much adjacent. This is not a generalist crowd. So people are leaning into this.

But so, yeah, so Socialist Utopia was on the ballot paper, and Australia said, oh, that doesn't sound like a good idea. Well, I guess it's like, you know, how much can you say that Australia voted these things down when, in at least five circumstances, the popular vote won, but it was voted down by the double majority requirement. So, you know, for example, in 1977, the simultaneous elections referendum got a yes vote of 62% across the country,

but only got yes in three. states and therefore got voted down. What was that one? Simultaneous elections? Is that for both houses? Yeah, again, it's just such a fucking boring. We've tried to do that like four different times just to try and get the House of Reps and the Half Senate elections on the same day. The Constitution doesn't say they have to happen at the same time.

We generally do. Conventioners settle into a point where we've said, yeah, we should do them at the same time. Otherwise, they're very annoying. But in the 50s and 60s, particularly the House of Reps elections and the Senate elections were at different times. Well, I think Whitlam, Whitlam even did a, like just spilled the House of Reps and didn't do the Senate. Possibly even under hook.

There was a half-Senate election and nothing else. So this is a bit of a problem. Yeah, yeah. Because the other one, I don't know whether you know, was there an income tax referendum in about 1914 or 15, which would have given the power of the federal government to raise income tax? and then that got voted down but then the First World War happened and so they sort of did it anyway through legislation

and ignored the fact that it wasn't actually strictly written in the Constitution did you go into that in the show? No, no, I didn't. It is true. I don't know about that. This is the one thing I remember from my constitutional law class is, okay, maybe there is such a thing is too nerdy for the podcast. But no, the reason why there's federal income taxes

and not states is because at one point the fed the feds just went this is stupid and ratcheted them right up to the point where the states had to cancel theirs thus enabling the federal government to have specific purpose payments where they kind of have tied grants and giving the feds more power for those who care about constitutional law but i mean this this is important because it does explain as you say tom why change is hard and progress is slow because there's a there's a gerrymander by the small states they get a veto disproportionate to their tiny-ass size. Yes, it's crazy. And yeah, it goes back to that period of the 1890s where in order to get federation done, you know, the protection of the colonies, rights, the state's right,

yet convince all these ruling class fucks like John Forrest from W.A. That if they were to get on board this whole federation idea, they'd have to maintain a huge amount of control and power. And so, yes, the smaller colonies, our states, get this massive veto power, which is way out of proportion to their population, the democratic control. And so I say in the show, for this voice referendum this year, 90% of Australian voters could vote yes. That is 100% of yes voters in Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria, 49% in TASI, SA and WA, 100% of voters in both in all the territories. And still, if 51% in WA, South Australian Tazi vote no, that's representing less than 10% of the population, then the whole thing gets shut down. I love that you've done the mess

on that. For the voice to parliament, there's, I know, for the voice to parliament, there's no argument that the smaller states would be affected in any other way for everybody else because it's just federal across the country so yeah it's just it's it's it's reminder of the electoral college in the state you know what we need to do tom is we need to hold a referendum to remove the double majority to remove the double majority yeah i'm sure that'll be easy to get through which they tried to do in 1974 oh really fucking effort yes oh okay yes i wonder why that didn't work i've actually got a simpler solution though, Tom, which is, I think if we just abolished the franchise for Queensland,

then correct me if I'm wrong, pretty much every referendum proposal would have got enough. Like, I think Queensland are the fuckies. They're always saying no. Or W.A. Yeah. I mean, W.A traditionally, but I think with the voice, I mean, certainly with the voice, if we get rid of Queensland,

we're basically home and hosed. So we need the High Court to reinterpret the Constitution so that Queensland isn't part of Australia. Well, I mean, surely what you do is, because I don't think it would even need to be constitutional. Like the state borders are not a constitutional thing. Like, the state borders look very different at the beginning of Federation. That's true.

You could just redefine what Queensland is. You redefine Queenslanders to be, I don't know, Fitzroy, or something. And Fitzroy gets all their... 12 Senate seats, it gets their constitutional vote. And that would work. And then maybe, I don't see, the problem is New South Wales wouldn't want to take on the responsibility for all the sort of Queenslanders. Maybe we give it to...

You give it to Canberra. Make Canberra Queensland. I turn it into a territory. Yes. Yes, a protected, maybe a colony. Right. They could be occupied by New South Wales. Yeah.

Well, why don't we just give Queensland to China? all right and that'll sort out our relationship there right that's our peace offering you say hey you know let's all just finish up we're not really using it that might be seen as an active war though we can give you queensland it's like they might not want it thank you we'd rather have Taiwan we don't want this one when does fast grocery delivery through instacart matter most when your famous grainy mustard potato salad isn't so famous without the grainy mustard when the barbecues lit but there's nothing to grill when the in-laws decide that actually they will stay for dinner. Instacart has all your groceries covered this summer, so download the app and get delivery

in as fast as 60 minutes. Plus, enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees exclusions and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. The Chaser Report. Less news. Less often. Now, Tom, last time we spoke, we discussed your book, I'm Millennial. There's a whole episode. about that. The amount of research went into that was frankly formidable. But you concluded with being a fan of democratic socialism and specifically the Greens. And I must say, it's always awkward for me to be in favour of any political movement at all, because my whole history is of finding them all massively disappointing for different reasons. But I wonder how that's going

for you, you know, at this point, April into May 2023. Has the romance soured or are you at the point where you may run at some point on the Senate ticket. Why? Does he write these two options? There's no middle ground. Great, isn't it?

No middle ground. Isn't everyone doing awesomely? Yes. Look, it's been rough. She's been a rough couple of months. That's been certainly true. And we've talked about this a fair bit on my little podcast,

serious danger. Obviously, Lydia Thorpe leaving was a bummer. And I hope that she's okay. She seems to be having a rough time. I don't think you're supposed to say, I think you're not supposed to express concerns for her health. Albany's you got in trouble for that, I think, didn't he?

Oh, okay. Well, I think you can still just hope that people are okay. I think that's fine. I think that's nice. Yes. I'm not, yes. Sorry, that was a little bit too dark. No, no.

Let's let this. No, no. I think you'll definitely be canceled for hoping she's okay. I think, is it like, oh, okay. I think she gets the help she needs, which is a bit more, a bit more barred than what Tom said. So let's not worry about that. It has been rough, hasn't it?

Well, again, I was, you know, her yelling at a security guard out at the front of her nightclub, that's like the most, one of the most relatable things she's ever done. I want to see more said it. is out there on the streets, giving them what for to the bloody dogs in the security forces? I adores that behaviour wholeheartedly. It is astonishing that someone was found outside a strip club arguing with a bouncer and it wasn't part of Be Joyce. I really, that could be a source of common ground, I think, between politicians from different

parts of, you know, different parties. We had Max Chandler Mather on the podcast a couple of weeks ago talking about the sort of success the Queensland Greens have you know they picked up three low house seats the last federal election and he had this interesting strategy which I don't think is going to work for anyone else which is to go and listen to people

and so they they managed to door knock 90,000 homes or something in the last week of their campaign because they had such a sort of army of people but his theory is that the Labor Party nowadays is trades in Alaska of hope. Like, it pedals in actually dampening people's expectations about what government can achieve. And therefore, it's able to deliver on a much easier raft of promises because you sort of don't promise anything. You then deliver on that lack of anything to promise and you

government for life. And you can see that's really playing out. Like, it's clear. They're going to give the stage three tax cuts to everyone because they want to say, oh, no, I'm the type of person who gives tax cuts to rich people because that's what I promised. So are you now a green supporter, Charles? Well, I am just saying, no, I've got a theory, right, which is, which I put to Max, I'm going to put to you, Tom, which is, so now the Greens have sort of found themselves actually quite, I think, in a position of a lot more strength than they were, say, in 2009, right? So 2009, they faced sort of bad legislation from the Labor Party around climate change.

and the only thing that they could do was oppose it, right? And they pushed back and they opposed it. But that was sort of almost coming from a position of weakness. They didn't have the internal strength within the party to be able to go, well, let's just cut a deal and do something that's not as bad as the worst scenario, right? Whereas now Adam Band and all those people are sort of, you know, safeguard mechanism. Instead of 116 gas mines being approved,

you've got like half that number being approved, thanks to the Greens, which is sort of, in a way, coming from a political strength on the part of the Greens because they know that they can sell it into their thing. They're not going to lose votes in mitigating the worst of Labor's policies, right? I put it to you that that is actually a worse outcome for the planet because all it will do is slow down,

the descent into a fiery hellscape. Like, surely it's much better to bring online a whole 116 gas wells so that we get to the end point where we're all dead quicker. And all you're doing is making it more unbearable because it gets stretched out. Wow, you've got full accelerationist. This is awesome. He's really thought about this.

This lighthearted hysterical podcast has a full death drive. It's a fucking serious. Well, look, if you're a frog in a boiling pot of water, what you say is turn up the heat. Turn it up! Turn it up! You want to get to it. Yeah, that's true. That's really good point.

Is Tom going to leave the Greens? Does this make you want to leave the Greens now that they're slowing it all down? Well, I guess if you really want to accelerate things, I guess I joined the Liberal Party. Yeah, all the Nationals or something to really go full health for lever. Look, I mean, we talked a lot about the deal that was reached by the Greens on the Safe Guard mechanism. We had Nick Fike for the monthly on, who wrote this great piece for the monthly about how insane the carbon credit system is and how dodgy the whole situation. And I think I'm still a little bit, you know, it's all still a little bit TBC as to whether that compromise was justified. I'm still very much of the belief that the Greens voting down, holding the red line on the principle that we shouldn't open any new fossil fuel projects is still a very reasonable position to take that is agreed to by most people in Australia.

They just need to just not blink whenever they're constantly held down by the insanity of Labor hacks and the Canberra Press Gallery, which overwhelmingly it seems to me, seems to take the labour line on almost everything and is very willing to dismiss the Greens as ridiculous hippies even though their position is entirely in line with the international science. I guess we'll see. And, bizarrely, the Teals, like even the Liberal electorates agree with that, don't they? Yes. Oh, no, it's about 85% support in the Australian population.

for doing more about climate change. So it literally is just the political class that is, you know, off on some other planners. Well, actually, unfortunately, they're still on our planners. But, okay, so can I pitch to you, and I've pitched this to a few people on this podcast, the way we solve this problem, right? The political class being complete,

and the billionaire class as well, just being completely. Burning tires. And that is, what we do is we give them the new fancy Apple AR VR VR headsets right so hear me out which is you know how in every Netflix dystopian drama it's always the poor people who get given the headsets and made to work in the matrix and you know and they get shown this brighter future but actually they're not they're actually in some

health scape right instead what we should do is just give it to the rich people and make them feel like, oh, you've got stage three tax codes. Oh, you've got like tons of gas mines. And you could even put on like a heat suit or something like that. So everyone feels a little bit hotter like all the political classes. They can walk around. They can walk around going, oh, it's very hot today. Right.

But meanwhile, the rest of us, the 85% of people who want more action on climate change, get on with, you know, shutting down all the fossil fuel, getting rid of all the problems in the world, not delivering the stage three tax cuts but they just go off and live in their own alternate reality of a hellish fire scape of doom and destruction and the same way in the matrix

human beings their energy was being used to power the robots we could like somehow turn the egos of all these insane political hacks and use that as a source of renewable energy so we can get off fossil fuels that wouldn't that be a wonderful thing do you think the Greens I mean it is certainly increasingly looking

as though the Greens are mainstream something I never thought I'd say in terms of the actual positions of Australians. Do you think they'll actually become, you know, one of the biggest two parties at some point? Do you think they'll leave Lab behind? Because Labor seems to be managing expectations downwards. I mean, all the job seeker, the refusal to increase job seeker is quite surprising for a party that was notionally left wing. When Albaugh and opposition said, it's not enough, we've got to increase it. What's going to happen, do you think, Tom?

Are the Greens going to, you know, win 100% of the votes in five years' time? Yes. That's my prediction. Don't cut this up. I'll clip this. Look, you know, the good, whenever I feel particularly bleak, I still remind myself it's a good thing that what appears to be entering as the new political terrain is between the centre represented by the Labour Party and the left in the Greens. I mean, I do think the coalition is kind of seems pretty committed to driving itself into irrelevancy and completely out of touch with people. So I think that's a good thing. So if the two major ideas or the two competing viewpoints, in Australian politics emerges to be the Labor and the Labor view of things and the Greens view of things. I think that's a good thing. It's certainly good news for progressive politics. I just think we need to blow up this sense that you'll constantly be told by Labor people,

which is like, it's us, guys. It's either us or them. It's either us or the right. This is the only alternative when it comes to housing. Our housing plan is the only housing plan. We have to go with the stage three tax. We've said we're committed to stage three tax cuts, so stop asking us about it because we're not going to discuss it any further. We simply cannot raise job seeker. It's just impossible. just this sort of be-all and end-all presentation. Whatever is Labor policy is the correct take, that is the limit of what is politically possible, deal with it.

I think the Greens are at its strongest when they're saying, that's bullshit, that's an absolute lie. Look at you spending $368 billion on submarines. You're telling you don't have any money for poor people, you're fucking vampires. I think that's why the parties are the strongest, and that's where it speaks to people. Yeah.

Well, it's good. But Tom, therefore, can I pitch to you my other idea for the Greens? How many theories at... No, which is. And ideas, Charles. That I think, you know, Ada Kalao in Spain, who... She ran the house. She was like the Max Chandler Mather of Barcelona, or Barcelona, right?

And then... And then, and it was all about tenants rights and housing rights and all that. It was a housing movement, right? Like, very similar to what's going on in Australia now with soaring and just terrible housing forwardability. And she rode to national prominence in, like they took over the Spanish government for a while. But she very shrewdly, she didn't position herself as, oh, we're off to the left of the socialists, and we're off to the far left of the nationalists. She said, I know, we're the centrists. And the socialists are actually, to the left of us, the nationalists

of the righter of us, we inhabit the political centre. Or, you know, she didn't even necessarily define her enemies. just said, where the centre. And I think increasingly, if you look at the Greens' policies, especially around things like housing affordability, around climate change, they are centrist. They're the thing that 85% of people want action. Oh, my God, are you saying that the Greens and the teals should join up?

They're almost the same colour. They're in the centre. And everyone else is off to the side being fringe dwellers. And you've got to inhabit the centre. And then you become the people who can stare the Labour Party in the face and go, well, actually, it's got to be our way. Stop being extremist labour. Yeah, stop being extremist labour.

It's our way or the highway. Yeah? Well, yeah, I mean, and this is the Richard D. Natalia approach, certainly. He was trying to rebrand, I suppose, the party and sort of say, we represent mainstream Australia. We represent mainstream values. That's a great way to kill our idea. It's a terrible.

Yeah, I know. It's a little bit later. I mean, yeah, surely we should. But it's interesting. You should be able to say left wing, I mean, the real challenge is to say is mainstream Australia left wing. You know what I mean? Like, why does left wing have to be some kind of alienating position to take as opposed to saying, well, maybe actually is a country, maybe most people are left wing. That's probably when you arrive at any political ideology, your general belief is that most people are either more progressive or more conservative than most everybody else, right?

Like everyone's, when you get to a point where your ideology is seen as common sense, then you're kind of winning, you know, so that's a good way to be. And that is certainly rooted in the way Greens go back doing policies. Most people think that we should tax the rich more to fund better services for everybody else. Most people think that the tax cuts for the rich are ridiculous. Most people want actual serious action on climate change. Most people would prioritize housing everybody before, you know, the rights and interests of landlords who own 63 properties for fuck's sake.

So, yeah, it is common sense. We're normal. Peter Dutton's weird. We're normal. Well, it does raise the question. If the people without housing in their millions, if the people below the age of 40 who don't have houses, just seized housing from boomers who have 60 houses,

what could be done? And if it was done in millions, there'd be no alternative with them. Police aren't going to go around and kick them all out. If five million people just seize housing? But the problem is, it would be the housing, it'd be owned by the politicians. They're the people who own all the investment property. Yeah, I think the average, what is it?

The average Albanese cabinet minister has 2.3 houses, something like that. You need them. But apparently Albanese is a great landlord. You need a spare house, too. I'm sure they're very generous with their tenants. Yes. Oh, God. Well, Tom, I admire that you continue to try and fix this stuff,

rather than just looking despairingly into the abysic. chance of my approach for this. I'm not doing anything. I'm profiting off the problems facing the world and turning them into jokes and making sweet money. But, yeah, I am a hero.

You are. You are, right? You are. You're a small businessman, really. I don't know if you guys can relate to that at all. Can you relate to the idea of just profiteering off the horrible news stories facing a...

I can relate to doing that about 10 years ago. These days, not so much... We're sort of breaking eveny. You're breaking even on the... Barely staying a... float on the on the news that's right that's right uh tom show it is i as i mentioned coming to sydney brisbane and indeed edinburgh if you happen to be lucky enough to be there uh i'm sure it will be excellent as all your shows are also tuumber and cans if i can be rude i'm doing a few

little regional queensland in the state that is soon to be excised completely from australia before that happens come to do i shows in tuwomber and kins are you doing the tank art center is that where you're playing in kair no i'm doing this great place with a laughing hearts comedy club uh which is at three walls in kans my boyfriend lives in kans so i've been up in cans a lot and there's a really great comedy room in there. Hang on a sec. They're very kindly booked out for my show. We've just excised Queensland when that's the kind of green hub of Australia now.

They won't need to rethink the plan. Well, this is all part of my secret plan. All right. Tom, thank you very much for being with us. All the best for the tour ahead. Thanks, comrades. And for your, you know, upcoming job as the first Greens Prime Minister of Australia. Vote one.

Ballard. What's better than a well-marbled rib-eye sizzling on the barbecue? A well-marbled ribby sizzling on the barbecue that was carefully selected by an Instacart shopper and delivered to your door. A well-marbled rib-eye you ordered without even leaving the kitty pool. Whatever groceries your summer calls for, Instacart has you covered. Download the Instacart app and enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions, and terms apply.

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