The Chaser Report - What Will Become Of Tuvalu?

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

Charles and Dom lament the future loss of a culture at the hands of climate change, and the unfortunate citizens of Tuvalu who are forced to migrate to Australia, only to be introduced to capitalism. ---Order the 2025 CHASER ANNUAL: https://chasershop.com/products/the-chaser-and-the-shovel-annual-2025-preorderListen AD FREE: https://thechaserreport.supercast.com/ Follow us on Instagram: @chaserwarSpam Dom's socials: @dom_knightSend Charles voicemails: @charlesfirthEmail us: [e-mail] CEO’s Super-yacht upgrade Fund: https://chaser.com.au/support/ Send complaints to: [e-mail] Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Book on emirates.ca. For over 140 years, the Royal Conservatory of Music has set the Canadian standard in music education and inspired generations of students through the power of music. Now, we're proud to introduce RCM Smart Start, a research-based early learning program designed by our in-house experts in music education and neuroscience. With a comprehensive research-informed curriculum, digital learning resources, and guided online training, RCM Smart Start equips educators with the tools they need

to bring music and arts education into their classrooms. Partner with us to bring RCM Smart Start to your institution and give every child the foundation for a brighter future. The Chaser Report is recorded on Gatigal Land. Striving for mediocrity in a world of excellence, This is The Chaser Report. Hello and welcome to The Chaste Report with Dom and Charles. Charles, what's on your mind today?

Okay, so Dom, a couple of months ago, we talked about the new treaty that Australia signed, actually back in 2023 with Tavalu. Oh, yeah. Which essentially allows all Tavalluans eventually to come to Australia under a sort of permanent relocation program. because Tuvalu is going to be one of the first ever islands in the world to completely disappear due to climate change. Yes.

And it's called the Australia-Tavalu Falpili Union. And it's quite an extraordinary piece of policy that Australia has done. Like, it's an incredible program. One of the updates that I just wanted to share is that so they open, the applications, this was, I think, at the beginning of the year, for the first batch of people to come in. And under the scheme, 280 Tavalluans a year are allowed in, right? Which might sound like that's not very many people, but given that there are... Would that be because that's not very many people?

No, but there's only 10,000 people in Tavalu. Like if you... But on the first day of the applications being open, a third of the... Tavalu and population registered for the thing. 4,000 people. Yeah, I just had a little... Oh, when including family members, applications exceeded 4,000 people.

So there's 9,600 people in Tavalu. So are we taking them so slowly because we don't want to completely devastate the whole Tavallu? Yes, it would ruin Tavalu. Like, already one of the huge critiques from inside Tavalu is

this is just going to lead to a massive brain drain. Yeah. And the existing politicians are sort of a little bit up in arms because they're in power, right? And they're power, like, you know, they only have 10,000 people to exercise power over. Yeah. And now it's going to be like 9,700 people. Yeah, the elector's getting smaller and smaller. Yeah.

So you can see why some people are sort of critiquing it from that perspective. Oh, so no, actually, and I'm wrong, the first application is opened in June. So it's actually very recently, right. But, so the first people have arrived here just very recently. And guess what one of the problems that they're facing in Australia is? I'm really curious. Not enough other Tavaloans? I think there is a small diaspora of Tavaloans,

but also other sort of South Pacific communities. Yeah, yeah, there are other Pacific communities. but the thing is that these are not like normal like sort of most immigrants arrive on programs that are to do with being workers right like where you actually well we've had the Pacific workers schemes for years where people came and did fruit picking and stuff

yeah that's right but they're linked to specific industries and so if you want to be a fruit picker you can come here and pick fruit right yeah this is done by ballot like literally it's a lottery about who gets to come over. So is the problem that they don't know what to do? The problem is that people are arriving who have no real... And this is not necessarily a problem,

I'm just saying this is an interesting fact, that people are arriving and they don't necessarily have any experience with the money economy. Really? Because all throughout the South Pacific, there are lots of places, including Fiji,

which is fairly mild. modern robust society. Much bigger than Tuvalu. But there's whole swathes of the population there as well, which exist essentially in a subsistence. Like through sort of bartering type? Well, through... For collectivism? How does that actually work?

Through, yeah, farming and... Well, no, I think there is a bit of money everywhere. But you grow the stuff you need. You mainly grow the stuff. Or if you haven't grown something, you just... go down to your local river and fish and that's how you get your meal like the whole concept of money is is very peripheral to your day-to-day existence right and it is funny the way they deal with it in in fiji is they make uh education like primary and secondary education is

compulsory in fg but it is also quite expensive oh really it's actually you have to pay about 300 bucks a year, which is a lot of money, especially for people up in villages and stuff like that, away from the city centres in Fiji. But the reason why they make it cost so much money is to make sure that everyone has to participate in the money economy at some level so that they can cover their kids' school fees, right? So by sort of requiring that they acquire this money stuff, it actually means that villages are forced to trade at least some of their food at the local market. To be able to get enough money.

But in Tavalu, you're talking about, you know, whole villages of people who, you know, I'm sure would have heard of the concept of money and have some level of, but it's just not part of their day-to-day existence. It's not part of how they would get their food and feed themselves or even sheltered themselves, like they exist in places that, you know, like they're, they've lived in for generations. Yeah, I'm just reading about what life's like in Tavalu here to get a sense of what it's like.

And no, it is enormously different. So as we, as I'm sure you would know, Charles, one of the main sources of income for Tavalu is the domain, that is dot TV. Yeah, dot TV. It's done very well out of that. Yeah. But that's, that's, that comes in via government taxes, doesn't it? Like, that's not, that's not something.

It touches the lives of the villager. They're not all living on the sweet. Dot TV money, no. Yeah. But, I mean, one of the things is that there's basically no internet in Davalu. So the reporter was just saying that they get 2G speed and a sketchy network. They're going to try. They'll actually quite like Australia then.

Yeah, at least there's internet access. But, yeah, one or two places have Starlink. But other than that, I mean, there's talk of building a cable through sort of belt and road and all that kind of thing. But it's not happening any time soon. But the leader of Tuvalu, this is the interesting idea for something, a place that is so, you know, thought of as with the dot TV domain. But back in 2022, the foreign minister Simon Kofi had this idea that because Tuvalu was going to disappear, they wanted to have a virtual Tuvalu. Yes, that's a work out. And he gave this address on this.

But then, unfortunately for him, the metaverse isn't really going anywhere. No one's actually building it. It seems to kind of die it as a concept. No, except Singapore just this year backed in Tavalu over the idea that there should be such a thing as virtual sovereignty. So there is this growing idea, which came originally from that guy. That even once nations exist, they should still have the ability to exist. Stop existing.

Like a former nation. All the Tuvaluans come to Australia. Yeah. The concept of Tuvalu having some sovereignty, they want to preserve. They want to preserve that at a sort of metaphysical level for the people. But I think more importantly, it's at a sovereignty level for the mining rights and the fishing rights. So it's actually about, no, no, just because our land has disappeared doesn't mean that we don't get those exclusive mining rights that we can then trade to China or the US or Australia. Yeah, it's an interesting question too because, I mean, part of you guys will.

this particular group of 10,000 people happen to have this dual prize of sovereignty where they can be represented in the UN and go to the Olympics and all the things that come with having a nation state. It's a very same thing, issue with Nauru, really, but it's a really tiny place. No one in Tavallu or Nauru is doing especially well, I gather, but you do ask, well, I mean, it's such an arbitrary thing to have sovereignty or not. It's, I mean, retaining it when there's no longer a Tavalu, in any physical, it just feels like a tough sell.

Well, isn't the point that, you know, the whole idea of national sovereignty is a construction that's only existed, you know, really for the last five minutes in terms of human civilization? And it's based on consensus. Something isn't real anyway. And the... There are just lines on maps. Actually, you know, it really is largely to do with monopolies of violence and, you know, who can...

Yes. Who can lock who up. Yeah. Who can, yeah, lock who up at a sort of personal level, but also, you know, the fishing zones and the mining zones make sense because the passport's being recognized all that stuff yeah so look I think you know like it'll be an interesting philosophical conundrum which will then be wiped out the moment a world war comes along one supermarket in Tavalu accounts for 70% of the country's imports that's um that's a good statistic

pretty extraordinary we know you love the thought of a vacation to Europe But this time, why not look a little further to Dubai, a city that everyone talks about and has absolutely everything you could want from a vacation destination. From world-class hotels, record-breaking skyscrapers, and epic desert adventures, to museums that showcase the future, not just the past. Choose from 14 flights per week between Canada and Dubai. Book on emirates.ca. today. For over 140 years, the Royal Conservatives,

of music has set the Canadian standard in music education and inspired generations of students through the power of music. Now, we're proud to introduce RCM Smart Start, a research-based early learning program designed by our in-house experts in music education and neuroscience. With a comprehensive research-informed curriculum, digital learning resources, and guided online training, RCM Smart Start equips educators with the tools they need to bring music and arts education into their classrooms. Partner with us to bring RCM Smart Start to your institution and give every child the foundation for a brighter future. None of the medical advice contained in The Chaser Report should legally be considered medical advice. The Chaser Report. Anyway, but the point is that I think one,

One of the fascinating things is, like, in Australia should keep doing this visa program, this is a remarkable piece of, you know, neighbourliness for Australia to sort of... But also 280 people a year is such a drop in the ocean of Australia's migration intake. Yeah, yeah. But I think one of the interesting things is, I think it's one of those things that has to be done really carefully, right? Because if we're talking about bringing people here who don't really understand the money economy, then there's a lot of support that's got to be put into, you know, helping those people out.

Like, I'm not saying that they're idiots. I'm just saying, imagine, like, there's just a whole lot of, you know, and actually there's a whole lot of Melbourne reporting. From what you can see here, I mean, just having more than one supermarket, it would genuinely do your head in, I presume. Yeah, yeah.

And, but also just the concept, I mean, imagine being explained at the age of 45, that you're expected to sell your labour time in return for money in order to, you know, be able to feed yourself. When you've just been... When you've just been living. Yeah, when you've just been living. Like, it's such a sort of...

It just, yeah, I think it's, like, I think, you know, yes, it's a culture shock for them, but it's also something where we could probably check our own assumptions about how the world should work. There is a lesson in that, isn't it? there where the assumption that you have to participate in all of these structures and systems or else is actually not a given. Not actually, yeah, it's not a given in.

And I presume this is not going to be the last set of people who are going to arrive on the shore. I mean, I presume the future of Nauru after we've paid them $70 million a year for the foreseeable future for their prisons, is that they'll all end up in Australia. I presume that's somewhere. And I think... And that's reasonable. Yeah, because I think

my assumption is what they should do is just lock them all up. As criminals. As immigrants who aren't the right to be here. Yeah, exactly. That would be have a certain irony to it, wouldn't it? Yeah, it would be, yeah.

But I'm assuming that that's what will happen is they'll just be guided into the criminal justice system ultimately and that's what will happen. You're suggesting what's good for the goose might be good for the gander. Yeah, exactly. One of the interesting that the Guardian and reported that apparently the culture shock is quite challenging journey, and this is

quoting one of the people involved. Having the social network for families is important to us. Spiritual spaces are crucial for us. Yeah, right. And just going, like, yeah, just the... There's an island-wide prayer time. Yeah, it's just... Imagine, like, I suppose you don't normally think about the sort of...

destruction of cultural and spiritual value that climate change is creating. Like it becomes very easy to sort of... Ways of life become impossible. It's very easy to boil it down to sort of number of parts per million and how much climate change and how many feet the sea are going to rise. But actually, we're talking about the destruction of entire civilisation. Entire ways doing things and entire sets of values. And it does also remind you what has been lost in colonisation more broadly.

Because, I mean, this, okay, this is happening due to climate change. There's not really a choice here. The water's coming. But by the same time, I can, when boats turn up on your shore and people turn up and take over your country, and then a couple of generations later, everything's completely changed. Yes. Yeah. I mean, we can never entirely understand what life was like here. No.

Yes. Europeans arrived. And what has been lost, it's actually unknowable and a bit of prices. So, there you go. That's actually quite poignant and sad. And the fact The thing that's really Most sad about this to me

Is that there's just no choice I mean Coming to Australia and embracing The way of life here that's different Is that something that's an opportunity That you want to take up Yeah I mean that's what migration's for

Right It's people who And all the debate about Should you go somewhere else Should you be allowed to go into another country There's actually something Empowering about letting people Choose how they want to live in

Which society they want to live in And just going Well we know there's a border But actually you have to come and join us and living our way of life and embrace it. Yes. But to be forced to do that if you don't want to because lots of other places polluted the atmosphere

as part of industrialisation had nothing to do with you. Well, including the nation that you're then going to it to. Yes, it's right. It does feel like the least we can do. Yeah. And imagine after all that, then being introduced to capitalism, rapacious Australian-style capitalism and told this is how you're supposed to live?

you live. I mean, and honestly, the world with more than one supermarket is not necessarily a better world. We know that very well. So there you go. That's, um, that's, yeah, really thought-provoking. Thank you for that, Charles. There's not really a serious, satirical point and all that. More just a sad reflection on everything. Wow. How did we get to a profound place at the end of the... Do you want to go back to talking about our social club where we... Yeah, let's go back to that. I see that. Tovaluans welcome, by the way. Yeah. But they'll have to pay money. We're part of the iconic class network. Get you tomorrow. We know you love the thought of a vacation to Europe, but this time, why not look a little

further? To Dubai, a city that everyone talks about and has absolutely everything you could want from a vacation destination, from world-class hotels, record-breaking skyscrapers, and epic desert adventures, to museums that showcase the future, not just the past. Choose from 14 flights per week between Canada and Dubai. Book on emirates.ca today. For over 140 years, the Royal Conservatory of Music has set the Canadian standard in music education and inspired generations of students through the power of music. Now, we're proud to introduce RCM Smart Start,

a research-based early learning program designed by our in-house experts in music education and neuroscience. With a comprehensive research-informed curriculum, digital learning resources, and guided online training, RCM Smart Start equips educators with the tools they need to bring music and arts education into their classrooms. Partner with us to bring RCM Smart Start to your institution and give every child the foundation for a brighter future.