The Checkup with Doctor Mike - Dealing Or Not Dealing With Howie Mandel's OCD

Episode Date: July 31, 2023

Howie Mandel is one of the biggest media stars in America, especially impressive considering he's Canadian. Howie is known for being a judge of America's Got Talent, the host of Deal or No Deal, and played an ER physician on the 80's medical drama, St. Elsewhere, amongst over 20 Tonight Show appearances and countless other opportunities in film and tv. With all that being said, something else people know about Howie is that he struggles with OCD, anxiety, depression, and germaphobia, amongst many other things. Today we dove deep on the medical side of Howie Mandel, a conversation I'm grateful he was so open to having. Host and Executive Producer: Doctor Mike Varshavski Produced by Dan Owens and Sam Bowers Art by Caroline Weigum

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If I can find humor in my personal suffering right now and I'm able to laugh at it, then I'm not going to cry. And that's why when you look at the masks of theater, there is tragedy and comedy are very close together. There's very, there's a thin line between laughter and crying. You're never going to believe the impractical joke Howie Mandel played on his principle. Not only because it's so funny, but because it's so weird. And honestly, that's pretty much the tried and true brand of today's guest, Howie, Mandel. Odds are you've seen Howie in something over his 40 year career because he's done so many different things. I first saw Howie when he was hosting the popular game show deal or no deal.

Perhaps you've seen him live on stage performing stand-up. Maybe you're one of the millions of people who's seen him as a judge on America's Got Talent. No matter where you saw Howie, it's safe to say you probably found him to be pretty funny. But you may not be aware that behind that silly facade is a man who has spent his entire life battling obsessive compulsive disorder or OCD, as well as being a self-diagnosed hypochondriac. I invited Howie on the checkup to break down these mental health struggles, as well as to get a glimpse into a fascinating career that began on stage with a single elastic glove

and a breakout performance on the 80s medical drama, St. Elsewhere. We don't have a cool opening intro song, but I'm really excited to talk to you for many reasons, but most importantly, because you have a lot of experience with our health care system, not just as a patient, but you're also a doctor. Not really, you know, though I played one on TV. That's the same thing these days. Well, you know, what's interesting about that is that people have a hard time

delineating between make-believe and reality, which is probably the biggest problem we have in our culture. But when I was on, and for those that don't know, I did a show. called Saint Elsewhere for six years and I played an emergency room doctor and I can't tell you how many it's I love being approached that I love that people know me and wherever they know me from I cannot tell you that when that show was on how many people approached me with medical issues really really and they would give me an example of something someone would ask you um like they would show out rash they would whip out well here's it here's something that did happen and and it wasn't really being

approach but there was a car accident on the road in front of me and I pulled over to be a you know a helpful citizen a good Samaritan a good Samaritan but when the person looked up they saw Dr. Fiscus from TV so and they said that and the truth is so much of that stuff kind of stuck in my head I still know what to do and these were lines that didn't mean anything for I remember we had a scene and somebody had a gunshot wound to the chest. And I remember that I had to call for D5 lactated ringers, colloids, O negative blood, an intubation tray with a 22 centimeter endotracheal tube and open thoracotomy train to number 16 central intravenous catheters and a mass suit stat. And that is probably 40 years ago in my head and it doesn't leave. So, and I don't really need to call on for any of that at any

point in my life. Wait, you mean on America's Got Talent, you're not calling for medical help? Never. Well, I'm constantly screaming for medical help. I'm a well-known hypercondriac. I have mental health issues, which I've been very open about. I now, because of my mental health issues, partnered with pharmaceutical companies, and in fact, I'm very proud of being part of this app, no CD, which is just an app, which is, which takes insurance, which allows anybody, anywhere, access to help if you believe that you have OCD. Okay. Interesting. And how, would they give you access to a therapist, medical doctor, both? To diagnosis and therapy. Wow. For an affordable cost and, yeah, online. So I think

the biggest issue, as somebody who suffered my whole life with mental health issues was, was, first of all, number one, from my generation, unlike your generation, I think there was even more, I think it still exists, a stigma to talk about issues. And I have it, I had it. It was very hard. I came out accidentally and, you know, on the Howard Stern show and talked about that this was an issue,

which was incredibly embarrassing for me to talk about. But it kind of opened up the conversation so other people would approach me and say, me too. and then I felt oh my god I'm not alone and then I realized you know when you do have an issue how do you go about who do you go to you know not everybody has the equipment or the expertise or the wherewithal to even help and OCD specifically is pretty prevalent and the problem is I think that the term OCD has become a vernacular yeah you know and And I can't tell you, there isn't a day that goes by when I'm in public where somebody doesn't come up and go, I'm a little OCD-ish too.

And that's because they're neat, because they like things in order, because they wash their hands a lot. That's really not OCD. And I don't wish it on anybody. It is not a gift. You know, as a comedian, I have spent countless hours making fun of it. if I don't laugh, then I would cry or not be able to, you know, move on with my life. It stops your life. It's an incredible battle.

And but, and a lot of people suffer. So I'm thrilled to be partners with no CD. Yeah, that's great. The idea of people using medical terminology as common tongue, I think stems from the idea that some personality disorders that we call them can also be personality traits and not a disorder. Like someone can be a narcissist or have a narcissistic trait, but it doesn't mean they have narcissistic personality disorder, which is a diagnosable condition where your life is greatly affected. You have trouble maintaining friendships, work life balance, et cetera, due to the narcissism.

So that's kind of the thing that patients need to realize and people need to realize you need to be careful with words because they can impact someone's ability to get diagnosed. They may think, oh this is just a trait that I have when in reality it's a treatable condition and that's that's what's people have to know and and people also have to know that because i don't think there's anybody any human being that at some point in their life is not in need of a coping skill you know and whether it is a diagnosable um issue like oCD or clinical depression or you know bipolar it is there is still i think that we need to reach out i i constantly say ad nauseum i wish we took care of our mental health the way we take care of our dental health because if we don't have

a problem if we don't have a toothache if we don't we do go get checked cleanings x-rays you know it was part of the the norm when i was growing up in commercials hearing people say look mom no cavities, you know. And it isn't part of our norm to kind of see if there are any red flags. And we go through stress in life, you know, losing a loved one, dealing with a relationship breakup, dealing with a diagnosis of some illness, you know, aside from whatever we have to do medically and clinically, how do we deal with that mentally? I'm curious how you feel specifically about the diagnosis itself, the label, OCD, ADHD. In medicine, mostly because of insurance and paperwork and payments, we're quick to label patients. And I actually struggle with this as a doctor because

I feel like labels and diagnoses don't describe the human, the complex humans sitting in front of me. It doesn't describe the human, but it does, you know, I've gone and spoke on Capitol Hill about insurance companies, you know, supporting and being able to parody, you know, mental health needs as much as they do physical health needs. And so in order to do that, I think that, you know, for business purposes, I think labeling is important. Yes.

Because if without a label, then it's nothing. Yes. And then what do you, how do you fund nothing? So you need to fund stress. You need to fund, you know, anxiety, you need to fund, you know, I don't have the titles for other things. Sure, like generalized anxiety disorder, all these things we have ICD 10 codes for, which is the

international classification of disease. Right. So, but you, but they, they greatly impair your productivity, your capability and, and, and, uh, just functioning in life. And also, I think that they, there has been studies in talking to doctors, medical doctors, to say that, you know, mind over matter is not just pretend. You know, I believe that if two people have the same diagnosable issue and go through some sort of surgery or whatever they go through, I think that somebody with a negative mindset or non-functioning, you know, psyche, has a heart of time healing. That's for sure. That's proven.

Yeah. In fact, to make it even more relatable to the general public, an optimistic mindset yields better outcomes through life in terms of living a healthier life, but also interesting, a pessimistic lifestyle is more accurate. So pessimists tend to predict the future better, but optimists tend to be healthier. Which one do you think you are? A pessimist. Really?

Yeah, I'm a hypochondriac and I'm worried and a pessimist. And a pessimist adds, and I think that just by virtue of having OCD, one of the common traits of OCD is the pessimist, is that worry about what might happen if I don't, or if I do something, or if I don't do something, or if I don't complete this ritual, or if I don't, it's the pessimist in me, which, causes stress, which could cause, you know, high blood pressure, which could cause heart disease, which can cause even physical pain, back pain, back pain, neck pain, extreme fatigue, you can't get out of bed. So all this, and, you know, the connotation of it only being

mental, meaning it doesn't exist, it's still, that mental stress causes physical ailments that are diagnosable. And it, it starts with your mental health. So, I believe that if we took care of our mental health a lot more actively, that we would be a much more productive society, a safer society, a happier society. And it, I believe that mental health is the answer to a lot of our other problems. Yeah. Like violence and. Yeah. I mean, a lot of that is acting out or having trauma from childhood, adverse childhood experiences, we call them. We even see that, you mentioned like the physical trauma ramifications of that and when I tell some of my patients that you know I've done the physical I've done your history I've done some imaging I don't think

anatomically anything is wrong with your pain but I do believe you have the pain you're feeling the pain it's real but the source is not anatomical it's not physical it's coming from a mental side doesn't mean it doesn't exist it's coming from a cause that is mental because we each have a remote control for a volume of pain that we feel and sometimes we lose control of this remote control because of our mental health state. So if you're more anxious in a given moment, like if you're in a quiet room in a dark house and someone says boo, you're more likely to have a big reaction than when you're in a crowded mall if someone says boo. So the same way when you're more anxious, if you have a tiny pain, that pain is going to get turned up its volume and you're going to feel way more pain. Doesn't mean the pain doesn't exist. It means you have a subjective higher feeling of said pain. And it's wonderful that you are recognizing that. that, but you're in a small group of people that recognize that and in the community that recognizes that. If you do some imaging and you don't see something, or if you see something, I am more apt to have a path toward getting rid of that or helping that or even financing the

health of that, the help of that. The fact that you recognize it doesn't help us in society, you know, and we and we being people who are dealing with mental health issues, which are incredibly painful and whether it's physically painful. And listen, I am somebody who will hold tension in my back and in my neck and the inability to sleep and function and the being frozen with fear. You know, you think of somebody like Howard Hughes who has been depicted in movies. He's one of the brightest engineers, aeronautical engineers and producers of our time who spent the last years of his life naked in the fetal position peeing into a bottle. You go, like, it takes a lot to allow a person to get to that point. I can't tell you how close I am to that point each and every day.

You know, thank you for medicine and medication and therapy and a constant, you know, support system that I have and maybe even now a society that understands it and companies like no CD who are willing to, you know, create something that makes life easier for these people, but like me, but it is, it's scary out there to think that, you know, what we as human beings most people will suffer at some point in their life and literally suffer. There isn't a title. There isn't a diagnosis. There is no compassion for. I've talked many times about, you know, if you are in an office and all of a sudden you get a migraine or your your appendix is about to burst, you know, or your back goes out and you can't lift something, everybody in the office

will go, go home and here's a card, here's my chiropractor, or here's my doctor, he'll take care of you. If you were sitting there and going, I just can't function right now. I am, I can't even describe to you how I feel, but I am confused, I'm depressed, I want to cry, um, nothing feels real. Can I take an hour and maybe go see a therapist or psychiatrist? I mean, you would probably be somewhat of a pariah. It isn't the norm. It's not, and it's amazing that even at this point, you know, you were on my podcast

and talked about how, you know, not too long ago in the 19th century, if somebody was suffering mentally, they would give them a lobotomy or put them in a mental institution. Even the connotation of mental illness, the term mental illness sounds a little barbaric instead of just taking care of your mental health. Or what are you dealing with? There's nothing, there's, we're just don't have anything in place. It's slowly becoming different.

The fact that you have me on the podcast and even have this discussion is incredibly helpful, not only to me, but to somebody who's listening to, because mental health feels very, very, very, um, solitary. It's heavy. It's solitary. It's difficult to help someone if you aren't aware of what to do. And a lot of my patients talk about how when they go seek help, they don't actually get help. They're forced to jump through hoops. And you're asking a person who's already depressed, who's already anxious, who already has low motivation levels to get out of bed, let alone call five different numbers to see who accepts their insurance, who can see them in three months when they're struggling now.

Well, I'm curious about your experience with doctors. And specifically, OCD is, I don't have the numbers right here. I'm not prepared for this, but it is incredibly misdiagnosed. Oh, yeah. And there are people that deal with it specifically, with specific types of treatments, you know, and whether those treatments are medication, our exposure therapies, are just counseling, but specifically for obsessive compulsive disorder, it's hard to find that.

So, you know, even if you think you might have it, no CD offers you an opportunity to at least see if that is what you have. And then if that's what you have, then you should be. And that is the problem, you know, with physical health, I don't have to be a doctor to know that if my back is really sore, I might go see a back doctor or an orthopedic person. Or if, you know, I have an infection, maybe I'll go see an infectious disease person, or at least I'll go see

an internist or I'll start with a general doctor. I kind of know where to go. When it comes to mental health, I think we are lost. And we are not only lost personally, but we're lost, you know, just society is kind of lost. There isn't a direction that we are sent. You know, you are, if you, if you are suicidal, you know, they will take, there's an intake for a moment, But the moment that they feel that you're not suicidal, if you're not going to jump off the edge of a building, then you're released. And then where do you turn?

And then where and how long, as you kind of stated earlier, you may not get an appointment for three months. Can I sustain myself? Can I survive three months? I mean, mental health is dark and painful and an incredible battle. I sometimes, in my life to date, I'm going to be 68 this year, my pain mentally versus anything that I've gone through physically, you know, and I've had surgeries and heart issues and a lot of other things, doesn't compare. My mental, my personal mental pain has been the most, the biggest

suffering I've had in life, you know, more than anything physically. And, but it's just really, hard to find where to get help. Yeah. As a coping mechanism, I've heard you say before that being busy, being active, being in comedy and show business has almost been a distraction from some of these mental health issues. Can you elaborate on that? Yeah. Distraction is my panacea, you know, and whether that distraction is with sitting here right now and talking to you, even though I don't know how much of a distraction it is to talk to you about what I'm trying to distract myself from. But it is. I'm busy and I have to think and I have to stay in the now. You know, the worst thing that I cope with is quiet time. I don't like quiet because it just

turns me inward. I get to think. And thinking is not a great tool for me. I don't want to think because my thoughts just naturally flow like water to the easiest downward, you know? And my thoughts go downward to a dark place. So through that, if I feel like it's getting dark, I try, I'm lucky that I was born with whether you share it or not. It doesn't really matter my own personal sense of humor, you know, and I feel like all humor comes from darkness anyway. It really does. If you're laughing at a clown falling down, you're laughing at somebody else's misfortune. If you're laughing at two guys walking into a bar, if that's going to be a joke, it's not a joke unless something horrible happens to one of them, even if that's fiction.

So by the same token, if I can find humor in my personal suffering right now and I'm able to laugh at it, then I'm not going to cry. And that's why when you look at the masks of theater, there is tragedy and comedy are very close together. There's a thin line between laughter and crying. And so either I'm making myself giggle at something that seems rediscovered. ridiculous or trying to make somebody else giggle at my ridiculousness or I'm totally distracted by something I have to think of now because with OCD the thought of what could

happen if I don't act on my compulsion based on what I think might happen in the future if I don't do this if I'm if I don't live if I don't wash my hand one of more time. If I don't burn and scald my hand one more time, if I don't make, if I don't wash it so hard that the skin is peeling off, what might happen, what that germ may do will totally, you know, kind of just envelop every piece of existence that I have right now. So that's thinking about the future because I'm worried of what might have happened and, you know, a memory of when I was incredibly sick or when I got, you know, the flu, or when I got, you know, COVID or when I got thinking about, so being in the now in this second as I'm

trying to just come up with the next word to the sentence kind of distracts from any thought of what might happen, what did happen. And it's constantly, which I think is a productive way of most people's, should be most people's philosophy is about living in the now because the now is all we have that's what we really have that you know our past is our perspective of the past which no two people have that exact perspective of so i don't you know it's the way i think it happened the way i think the way i saw it is not maybe the way anybody else saw it and what's going to happen in the future the future is not guaranteed you know this could be the last second you know the ceiling could fall in i mean i'm not i'm not being negative i'm just saying you don't know

So all I know is now. And the longer and the more I can live in the now, the easier it is for me to exist. And that's what I try to do. And by living in the now, there's nothing that makes me live in the now more than stand-up. That's why my favorite place and my most comfortable place is a lot of people's scary place. And that is public speaking and being in the now. And speaking, I was fascinated by just watching you do your TED Talk. you're incredibly articulate and there was no stumbling and every but you have to be so aware

in that moment to just think of every word and to keep yourself on on target on message on that is to me that's a very comforting kind of what I try to do with stand-up comedy or whether I'm on AGT and I'm doing live TV more than trying to be an entertainer and trying to be famous and trying to make money, I'm just, I need things that live in the now. That's why I love thrill rides. I love roller coasters, even at my age. I love to be on a roller coaster because a roller coaster, as you, the scarier it is, the faster it is, you can't sit and reminisce.

Sure. You're not living on a track with wind, just a breeze through your hair, thinking about where, what you might end up doing or what happened. I like anything that kind of just forces me to be in the moment here. I live in constant fear, and it's incredibly depressing and not fun and worrisome, which can cause, but I also have clinical depression, I have ADHD, I have so many other underlying added. I would like to buy a vowel. I think I have almost. Comorbidity. Yes.

Well, that's why the labels sometimes I feel it could get in the way of helping someone, because then there's just so many labels and titles, and then patients are self-diagnosing themselves with a condition, maybe self-reliagnosing. medicating. That's where it gets tricky for me. Well, yes, and we do, you know, and I have. I'm sober at the moment and, you know, it's really hard for me to, it's hard. But then again, you know, you're a boxer. You love boxing? Yes. Yeah. So if you love boxing and I love life and I love my family and I love being a father and I love being a husband and I love my career and I love my family um if you love boxing it's a great metaphor for life you are going to suffer through if nothing else even if you didn't get hit it's exhausting it's going to be hard to breathe it's going to be hard to stand up it's going to be hard you know i mean like to go as many rounds as you have

to go and to exert yourself that's not easy it's not relaxing some people might not even think it's enjoyable but it is and it's worthwhile and it's good to push yourself like that that's my analogy that's how life feels you're going to get hit in the face and it's going to hurt and you're going to get knocked down flat and you're going to get right back up and you're doing that by choice what if your life just felt like that not by choice you always feel like you're getting hit in the face with these fears with these compulsions with your obsessions with your depression you're just being knocked fucking i'm sorry no you're just knocked down you know but if you love life and you love everything around you and you know my life is a boxing match so do you function better

during moments of terrible stress or terrible loss like i know in 2021 to 22 you had a very difficult time where you lost four of some of your closest friends norm louis uh godfrey and um there was one more Louis Anderson, Gilbert, a lot. A lot, yes. So, like, in that year, how did you? It was really hard because you're talking about during COVID times. And COVID, just by virtue of what was happening in our world, kind of slowed everybody down. So there was two things working against how I need to be comfortable, to cope.

Number one is just by virtue, I couldn't be as busy. because you couldn't go as many places and do as many things. And that's why we're sitting here in my little hovel. You know, I would find things to do here without going out and project myself. And that's how I got involved in the hologram business because I wanted to go as many places and interact with as many businesses as I possibly could without going any place. So that's how I found that, you know, to work with Proto, who is, I think next generation, you know, that is the iPhone.

and this is the way to communicate, the way to entertain, the way to educate. But beyond that, and I was losing people, also beyond losing people who were dying from a lot of them from natural causes and diseases and things like that, you know, living in the times of COVID, you know, I was always coddled up until COVID with the fact that, you know, I didn't want to walk into a room because I was afraid of germs or I touched something. and I was constantly being told just by the natural world that don't worry howie nobody here is sick don't worry howie it's not you're not going to get there's nothing going that stopped because there was a chance there was a pandemic we didn't know who was you know you

talked about I've talked to you earlier on my podcast but you were asymptomatic you don't know who is carrying things you don't know so like I had this this meleys of fear already settled in a place where I couldn't really stay as busy and as active as I wanted to and to distract myself. And on top of that, many people who I love and care about were passing, not necessarily from COVID, but just things were happening. And it was just dark, dark, you know, and I just try to stay in the light. You know, I'm trying. And each and every day I try. you know that's why i love living in california i like sunlight i need that light like physically need that light to just i just not good when what brings you light these days

my grandchildren i saw them on your background of your phone right yeah yes so that is incredibly light they they keep you busy they entertain you you know when i when i entertain Comedy keeps me light, you know, when I'm entertaining and making, you know, if you're laughing, that's okay. But ultimately, I'm doing on stage what I think is funny. And, you know, I know there's an old saying in comedy. If you can just make one person laugh, you're doing your job. But for me, it's just me. You know, if I can make myself laugh. And then I feel like I'm really lucky that there's two or three other people in the room that are laughing to or an audience or two or three thousand or or more. But ultimately, I just try to make myself laugh. And as I've gotten older, I really

care less about what other people think of me as much as I just try to comfort myself and keep myself content and alive and productive. How do you feel the difference between acting versus stand-up comedy? Do you feel the same joy from acting? No, no, I don't. I'm not a, you know, I'll do it. In the 80s, I started to get a lot of movies, and I ended up turning down a lot of movies until the offer stopped coming because I could not do it. I didn't like it. I did a bunch of movies in the 80s, and for the most part, there was no joy in it. You know, somebody else writes the script, but even if you wrote something, you do a page or a couple lines, you hit a mark, you know, is the director and you say a line or two and then they go cut and then you go sit in your trailer

for an hour while they relight because they're going to do the exact same thing again from another angle and you have no control over it then somebody takes it for a year and edits it and puts it together and it just wasn't satisfying and not to mention most of the movies I did were not done here in L.A. So I'd be for three months I would be away from my kids and my family And I just, it's not the same thrill as standing on stage and getting an immediate reaction or doing St. Elsewhere, which had to shoot, you know, we had a week to shoot every episode. I didn't have to work that much. There was seven, there was 12 of us in the cast. So I'd come in for a day and they would shoot a scene, you know, from, without any cuts. We were the first ones before, um, other shows that would do like six, seven pages with no cut where they would just, you'd follow us. down the hall into the elevator, they'd close the elevator, change the props and the nurses station colors

on the other side, and we'd get out and continue. It was actually a pretty demanding to learn all those lines to kind of coordinate and it was like learning how to dance because you'd have to, you know, hold tools and touch.

Did you have a medical advisor? Yeah, we had doctors. Oh, yeah. And was it hard for you to learn the lingo? No, it was interesting. I found it interesting to go, you know, because we were having these discussions because I was saying words but there was a doctor there to say, hey, listen, look you're going to do this person, especially because I was an emergency

room doctor, you know, this person's coming in and they have a gunshot wound. If they have a gunshot wound, Howie, they're losing their blood. So when you, you're going to have to find a tourniquet, you want to put your hand here, you're going to put pressure so you don't. So I was actually learning, learning. You know, as good as a first aid, I've, I've, I probably had the skill of a school nurse. Okay. But that's, but you get that. I'm sure they're really happy to hear that.

What? That you're saying you could learn to be a school nurse by being on set of a medical fiction show. For six years, playing an emergency room doctor, having an actual emergency room doctor at my side, day in and day out, telling me what each emergency is and what to do.

And from even learning how to do CPR, so I don't look like an idiot and an actor, I was doing a CPR to Heimlich moves, to asking for equipment. I do understand what these things that I spewed. I know what they are. I know why they were used. I don't think you would go to me in general, but I always felt like the school nurse was probably the least equipped in an emergency.

Didn't you feel that? I didn't have a school nurse growing up. Or maybe I never saw her. I don't know. I went to a public school in New York City. I went to public school in Toronto. There was, I promise you, there was a school nurse. There was.

I don't, I think every school, every public school has a nurse. I don't know. You don't think so? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I think it is. I think the school nurse is like the lunch lady, you know? Yeah.

Did you have a lunch lady? I definitely had a lunch lady. If you have a lunch lady, you had a school nurse, probably the same person. Speaking of playing a doctor, do you think you play as an actor, a better doctor or a contractor? so you're you're alluding to the fact you know this was so this was also me chasing my happiness you know i'll just go back i knew i was always i don't have any memory that of not being

um stressed mentally and uh my parents were very big in loving comedy and i used to hear them constantly as a little boy i would hear them in the other room laughing and whether they laughing at a comedian on the tonight show or my dad brought home a stand-up comedy album and i knew and i'm talking about being two years old and three years old i knew that laughter i was drawn to who wouldn't be you know just innately that laughter is a positive but i would go into the living room where they were listening or watching this and have no understanding of what was eliciting this happy you know like if a stand-up comic was on tv talking about his mother-in-law i didn't know what the hell a mother-in-law was right why would i know it too so i never understood so the first time i and i recollect this like

it was yesterday there's a show called candid camera are you familiar with yeah yeah it was alan funt you're a lot younger than me and it was already gone but it became you know punked and all these there was there was yeah okay so but the original one even started on radio and it started on sunday nights alan funt had this show and it was called candid camera and i never and my parents used to watch it And I heard them laughing. I went in, and I'm sitting there watching, and this nice old man, Alan Funt, was explaining what the prank was. And it was kind of like letting me in, even as a four-year-old,

kind of understood what was going to happen. And I've recollected this many, many times. But he pretended he had an office. He was this boss, and he hired a receptionist, who was the mark. And this young lady would come in and he'd say, the only thing I need you to do is sit at this desk and answer the phone. and you cannot miss a call. You cannot miss a call.

And just answer the phone and take the messages. She said, absolutely. And then he showed us that they had a rope attached to the bottom of the desk, and he would, there would be somebody in the other room. When the phone rang, when she went to reach for it, they would pull the rope and the desk would slide across the room. And as a little kid, this was the most inclusive understanding I had of what would happen. You know, it's like a surprise part.

You go, oh my God, this is going to be, I know, nobody else knows, she knows. And to turn to my parents and I was included and we were all just sitting there anticipating. It was a wonderful feeling. And then the lady sat down, the phone rang, she reached for the phone, the desk went across the thing and you saw the horror on his face. And in that moment, that guttural laugh that I had at the same time as my mom and my dad, I have been striving for ever since. That moment, that was a good, that.

laughter releases an endorphin that makes you feel good. It's like a fucking drug. And, you know, maybe this isn't. But I kind of understood in that moment without being able to articulate why laughter is the best medicine. Because even if you feel shitty, even if you feel in pain, if you can somehow elicit a real guttural laugh, if you could get that out of yourself, you will feel good in that second you will forget that pain you will forget that feeling you will there is something that

happens i don't know what it is but there is you probably can explain that better than anybody but i've always tried to recreate that was the first time i was aware of this feeling and it relieved any tension that i had as a kid but i wasn't sophisticated enough to understand that this was a television show with an audience and i didn't have friends i didn't make friends i was awkward. I was little. I was afraid to touch things. I didn't want to tell people I didn't want to touch things. I wouldn't retie my shoes when they became untied because the laces were touching the ground and they were dirty. So I was okay with everybody thinking that I was an idiot who didn't know how to tie my shoes. And I would walk like the hunchback of Notre Dame

because I couldn't keep my shoes on because they were untied and covered in mud. I was like not the happiest of children. That being said, in trying to recreate my candid camera moment, I would do things because I thought it was funny to set it up, but I wasn't sophisticated enough to even tell one other person, hey, Mike, watch what's going to happen. So in what you were alluding to, I did, I thought it was funny, but I called the, in the yellow page,

I called the contracting company. And I said at 3.30, I want you to come in and give me a quote on adding an addition onto the library. And knowing, because I thought, that would be funny because, first of all, there is no, who's authorizing it? I am. I gave my name. I think that you're laughing at it now and that's why, because I understand that that's funny. But what's kind of weird and sick about it is I'm not telling anybody, but I know that the reason I'm asking to do that is because

at 3.30 or 3 o'clock whenever I told the person to come, I'm taking math. I'm upstairs and I could look out in the field and I think it'll be really funny if I see this guy out on the field with his clipboard measuring and I'm the only one that knows that he's measuring for an addition to a library that I've authorized and then I can watch and I'm enjoying myself I'm laughing

nobody else is like I'm looking out the window giggling like an idiot which is making me even more of a pariah to the class they're just looking at me like who is this mental case and then I see the principal the vice principal walk out and talk to the guy and he's explaining that I see the guy pack up and go

and I see the vice principal go back into the school And then I hear an announcement within minutes. Will Howard Mandel please come down to the office? And I go, yes. I go down to the office. And he says, did you hire a man to put an addition onto the library? I'd given my name. And I said, no, I'm getting three bids because I'm responsible.

And he just looks at me like he doesn't know how to deal. I'm 12 or 13. You know, he doesn't know. He goes, could you just wait right here? And he called my parents. They brought my parents in. and my parents are, you know, sitting there. And I'm just sitting there as he's explaining to them, you know, your son called a contractor

to have an addition put onto the library. And I could see my mom, like, biting her lip and, like, I don't know what he expected them to say. Like, we told him to never do that. We told him to never put an addition onto the library, which I understand is funny, absurd, but take yourself out of that and be everybody else. You know, be that principal who, me, the straight face told him it's a funny story now because i'm in entertainment because i'm on a

podcast and because i'm telling a story and because maybe a listener is or watcher is watching this and and thinking this is a funny story but it's really when you think about it what the fuck am i thinking like it's funnier if i had told my friend mike but did your parents laugh at this were they concerned do they know you had this strange sense of humor yeah without telling people yeah but they would laugh and go howie and and they continue to say this who is the joke on Who is this for? Oh, so they would say that. Yeah, they just think, I know you were doing a joke,

and I know you think it's funny, and it is funny, but who is it for? People just think you're off. And what was your response? Oh, you're right. They just think I'm off. But I didn't have a friend that I can say, Mike, this will be funny at 3.30.

That would make more sense. If I said, Mike, at 3.30, look out the window. I called a guy he's going to contract. Or when I didn't want to go swimming and I threw a chocolate bar in the pool, this was in the 70s before you saw it on campus. so it looked like there's a piece of shit at the bottom of the pool and 300 people show up and they're looking at who shit in the pool and there's 300 people and I dived in and came up with it in my mouth where in unison 300 people go oh my god this kid's disgusting it's a funny

story it's not funny for a lonely kid who doesn't have any friends to let the school think that I'm eating shit but you're still despite having friends now are still performing for yourself you just said it i said it and i said that and i've said this many times everything i've ever been punished for expelled for you know uh admonished for is what i get paid for and what i learned is it's okay if i can make myself laugh i feel really lucky that you know i didn't have i don't need fame and i really don't need money to to find my happiness when i on a dare got dared to go up at yukyaks which was the name of the the club in in canada and found this moment i've i've always talked about how if you go to any comedy club you know on amateur

night you're going to see the worst you'll see the worst of the worst you can and you go what is this person thinking why do they even think they can be a comedian and that's because one person maybe said you should you're hysterical you can and the point is it's a sense of ability it's a sense of humor they just whatever they think is funny you can't tell them it's not funny you could i could just tell you that nobody else thinks this is funny and therefore that's why you shouldn't be a comedian when i went on stage the very first time i didn't think it through i don't think anything through and i didn't um i thought it would be funny that if somebody went ladies and gentlemen howie mandel i would get on stage and and i would i'm not pursuing comedy i'm

not pursuing show business. I'm not, there's no reason to introduce me. My fear in that moment, if you look at old YouTube videos, my fear in that moment took over when I realized there's an audience in front of me and these people, strangers are just looking at me like I'm fucking nuts and you better do something. And then I started going, okay, okay, all right, and they started giggling at my terror. And I started going, okay, and when they were giggling, I was going, what, what, what? And then I put my hands in my pocket and I carry rubber gloves, surgical gloves, because I was out in public and I knew that I'd have to go to the men's room and I didn't want to touch anything and that's why I carried gloves. And when I pulled it out, I just out of

sheer anxiety, I just pulled it over my head and I started breathing and the fingers were going up and down. The audience was roaring and I pulled it over my nose and I blew it up and it popped off and they all applauded and I had a sense. Good night. And the guy, Mark Breslin, who owned the place said, come back tomorrow. And I said, for what? And he goes, you'll do it again. Do what? Do what you did. And I was just lucky that my terror or my natural energy tickled more than just me. I think that's luck. I think that, you know, comedy, entertainment, talent is subjective. You know, if I don't like opera, it doesn't mean it's not great. I've never bought an opera album. I've never went to the opera. I don't enjoy opera. As a judge on America's Got Talent,

I watch somebody and I can hear that they're holding a note. They're holding a high note or a low note for a long time. It doesn't sound flat. So I'll tell you you're really good at what you do. I don't like it. But there is a group that does like that. There is a group that likes country music. I don't necessarily like country music.

So are you saying comedy is like speed? You can't teach speed, they say. You can't teach it. But I think that it's luck of having a larger group of people. that I feel I'm really lucky that whatever I'm doing, whatever silliness I portray to kind of entertain myself in the moment seems to be, that sensibility seems to be shared by a wider audience than just my parents. And because of that, people will pay me to show up and be the idiot that I am. But it doesn't happen in a vacuum. That comes with hard work and dedication and

things that you're not giving yourself credit for. I'm giving myself credit for just doing it. I think that we as human beings have an innate ability at an amazing instinct. And I think we are all instinctual. I think that that's maybe what puts us above the animal kingdom is our instinct. I think that our thought process fucks us over. And I think that, you know, I think too many people go through life. overthinking. Shoulda, could, or woulda. Or I love Nike. Just do it. And I think that I didn't think about

being a comedian. I just did it. And I keep doing it. And I just do it. And I say yes to everything. I say no to very little. No, as my philosophy is N-O, which is the first two letters of the word nothing. Nothing happens from no. But yes, I make mistakes. Yes, I fail. But out of those mistakes, and those failures, I learn things, I garner an education, I garner an experience that, you know, makes me who I am and informs how I act today and what I do or how I proceed today. But I like to just say yes and just do it. And more comes out of just doing it. I always say the difference between when you talk about people like Elon Musk and anybody

else. The only difference, he did it. Steve Jobs did it. You didn't. You went to medical school. I didn't. That's the difference. I don't know that I, you know, that I, anybody else wouldn't also be a great doctor, but they didn't. You're great because you do you. You do it. There's probably a million reasons not to do things. So you believe in fate. I believe that fate puts doors and opportunities in front of each and every one of us. I think that we control whether we step through those doors. I think that that's up to you. I think more people don't do things because they think about the...

The fear aspect of... Yeah, it's like the fear of anything. You know, I've talked about this many times too. You know, we talk about hump day. Hump day is Wednesday. And the connotation is we're halfway through the week. We're going through this hump. of doing shit we don't want to do so we can get to the weekend,

not even to do things we don't want to do, just to stop doing the things we're not doing. We don't like doing. And we're just doing that because you've got to pay the bills, because you've got to pay the rent, because I got kids, because you've got to do, there's always good reasoning why people are doing what they're doing,

but I think if more people acted on instinct and just kept doing it, they wouldn't I think that everybody has the opportunity to be successful and for me what is success success is not money money is money is not I promise you doesn't buy you happiness you can be incredibly wealthy and miserable and there's probably more miserable wealthy people than there are miserable people without money per capita I think that you can be fame what is fame it's famous is really nothing. It's just you're recognized by people that you don't know

and don't care about and don't even interact with. So what is that? Happiness, success for me is finding something that you're really excited about and being content in doing, waking up in the morning and having something to look forward to. I think there's too many people that just wake up and go, shit, I got to go to work. Well, what do you do?

Like even if that's a stamp collection, and I promise you, that if I was a custodian, but for two times a week, I could show up at a comedy club and just have fun and do that. I would look forward to that every week. It just so happened that when I did that, fate was there where opportunities opened up, and I was on stage, and somebody saw me and said,

do you want to do a TV show? And I said, okay, and I did a TV show, which was make me laugh. And then that got seen by Gene Simmons of Kiss, who hired me to be the opening act for his girlfriend who happened to be Diana Ross and I was an opening act in in but I never pursued this I didn't pursue I thought once I got a young comedian special

and I worked with my young comedian special was with Jerry Seinfeld and Richard Lewis and Harry Anderson and then the next step was after I was selling out tickets to do a sitcom and then I met Molly Lapata who hired me and I replaced somebody to be on St. Elsewhere I wasn't chasing a dramatic show I wasn't chasing Saturday morning cartoons of Bobby's World or doing voiceovers like Gremlins or being a game show host like AGT or I mean a deal or no deal or being a judge

like I am on AGT. These things just happened or I didn't know five years ago what a podcast was, what YouTube was. You know, these things are just things I'm just doing. How is it that you talk about yourself as this anxious, fear-ridden person and yet you're doing all these things that most people are deathly afraid of and you're doing it with an incredible level of confidence. Well, that's, you're just kind of, you don't know if I have an incredible level of confidence, but here's what I'm doing. I am, I am living on the edge of my seat. I have taught myself and with a lot of professional help, which continues, to be somewhat comfortable

in my discomfort and my analogy again is the thrill ride you know if you love thrill rides do you like thrill rides i'm scared of them so no i i don't like but i would be scared to get into a into a into a ring with a another professional boxer or somebody else who's uh i think giving up the control scares me but you don't you can't control what that guy's going to do i can control my defense it's a false sense of control it's not well yeah and and when i'm on a thrill ride you know the truth is that these are engineers built this and I'm strapped in and people aren't flying out and nobody you know that that is over and over and over again this this roller coaster is coming back to being loaded and reloaded and you know so they're logically you're right I mean when I fly on a regular plane I get nervous

but I've flown an F-16 before on my own like I flew the F-16 right with the U.S. Air Force underbird so like that didn't give me fear but being on a JetBlue flight coming over to L.A. I get nervous. you trust you as a pilot more than you trust the jet blue pilot because you're a doctor you should trust yourself flying an f-16 but what i'm saying is we play these games with our minds i am comfortable in my discomfort i am um aware of my discomfort my discomfort is is twofold it's uncomfortable but it also forces me to be in the now so it's a distraction from sitting back comfortably sinking into the abyss of my thoughts and where my mind would take me. So I'm incredibly uncomfortable.

The more nervous I am on stage, the better I do, the more scared I am, the more I could be taken off of the beaten path, obviously when I do television or stand up, I have a plan, I write an act. But if I love when it goes off the rails, if something technically negative happens, somebody yells something out, something happens in the room, something happened that day. I love that thrill. I love the thrill. And it makes me feel alive. It makes me feel like I wouldn't, I would never sit on a ride and this is life. You know, it might be nice to have a track where you sit he'd get in a car with a bunch of other people and it says goes and it just goes through the trees and there's a nice breeze and it just goes around and around slowly because you don't want to

you don't want to go too fast i would get that would be so fucking boring number one and number two it would it would only allow me to sink into me and worry about what might happen next or overthink something that I did in the past. Did I say the right thing? Did I come off like an idiot? Did I offend somebody? Did I, you know, and especially in this day and age right now where, you know, words, my words, even my words, which is all I have. I don't have a skill.

All I have is words. That's all I have. I'm not a doctor. I'm just a talker. I just show up and talk. And these words are now so. weaponized. It's so much scarier now just to talk publicly, just to leave the house. I don't know if I'm saying something that will offend somebody. I don't know if I'm saying something that'll

get me canceled, that'll lose my job. I can't tell you how many times, even because I work for network TV, I'm being asked to apologize. Yeah, that's a norm. I disagree, obviously, with the fact that you say you don't have a skill, because communication and comedies, obviously very much a skill. But I'm curious what you would say your superpower is because I think everyone has a superpower I don't think I have one you know I think humanity is the superpower I think you know we have these superheroes you know and the superman and there's you know we always have to you know it's we we always look to the outside you know we talked to my podcast about being an influencer you know you got to look like this you got to be this you got to be bitten by a spider so you can but I think

think humanity, if you really think about it, a human being is a superpower. And being able to love, being able to be loved. The vulnerability of it. Just humanity, whatever humility is our superpower. And we have to understand that in ourselves and not look outside, not try to be what we're not, not try to be more than what you are not think about what you are just be and when you understand what you i mean it's a i'll tell you as a parent you know watching the miracle and you've delivered watching the miracle of a human being come to be and and and and fully engage in what life is and communication and that it's it's a miracle it's a fucking miracle and we are miracles and we are miracles and we if If you could figure out just how to live, how to exist, how to live and exist in contentment,

you know, just figuring it out, that's enough. You don't have to be more than what you are. And when you realize that you are the miracle, when you are the superhero, of your own life, of whatever you're doing, of yourself, when you're the one that has to make yourself happy, when you're the one that has to make yourself laugh, when you're the one that has to make yourself laugh, when you're the one that has to make yourself survive ultimately and you could be content with that you have achieved success so would your level of success be you on that very slow ride very tranquil not going too fast and still being content would that

be your super place my super place which i've always tried to go back to was that moment that my parents and I laughed in unison together at something we all thought was funny. There was something good about that. And then April 19th, 1977 was the dare that I got on stage. When I found that moment, when I was terrified but laughing so hard at this predicament, I didn't know what to do, but I was just in this, my adrenaline was surging and I was terrified. But at the same time, it was so exhilarated. in that terror and a group of people that I didn't even know were laughing and you could feel

the electricity of they loved spending that minute with me terrorized I went oh my god this is it I just got to do this I don't have to I don't have to have anybody know my name I don't have to have to have you don't have to pay me anything I didn't get paid for that night but I got to I got to replicate that each and every moment and those are are the moments that I look forward to. Those are the moments that I, whether it's a moment on my podcast where I'm sitting there with my daughter and we're just giggling something or giggling at something or learning something or creating a moment or whether it's this moment right now. I'm always just trying to get back at that moment where I don't have to, my resting bitch face

is a dark place. And I'm just fighting, always clawing my way out of it. And in this moment, I'm not there. I'm not in that dark place. And this is a wonderful moment. And it's a wonderful moment to be alive. And it's a wonderful moment to watch and cherish the time that I spend with my children and my grandchildren and friends. And meeting somebody like you, Mike, who I think, you know, I didn't know you before today.

And you did my podcast. But to meet somebody who makes so much sense. And I think I'm a better person for having. to you and met you and kind of understand a little bit a little piece of your philosophy about health and life and and just being able to share that with people those are superpowers and you know my dog doesn't have that but that's what makes us one you know and and a lot of people don't have that and I think that we need to and maybe it's because I'm older now but we need to appreciate every moment we need to find the appreciation and when you can find and appreciate

that that's it's so beautiful and i live this dichotomy of this beauty and this joy and this excitement against such darkness you know i'm really deathly afraid all the time i could as i said earlier in this conversation be like howard hughes in the fetal position alone in the room locked away, not even leaving the piss, the piss in the bottle. But my life is, I'm in public talking to strangers who want to come toward me, who want to touch me, who want to be, that's the opposite of what I need. But it's kind of therapeutic. It is.

That's what, you know, it is the therapy, the real, the best therapy that tried and proven therapy of OCD is exposure therapy. So I just, by virtue of luck, I'm forced to. be exposed. That's awesome. My last question for you would be, if you saw yourself that very first time blowing up that glove on stage, and you were the AGT judge watching yourself, what would you say? During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures.

And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every crisp morning commute. This September, Lisa 2026 X-E-90 plug-in hybrid. from $599 biweekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions supply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. WTF, what the fuck is this?

Because it doesn't identify as a... But it crushed. I didn't understand it. I don't understand it. But you know what I do understand at this point? And what people respond to? and I think everybody responds to this and you'll know this best

from being the social media success that you are even more than just whatever your career is is I think that we as human beings respond to authenticity and if it's authentically I was just really scared

I was hiding in a fucking rubber glove it was very funny because afterwards when I had a little bit of a career and I had to articulate to production companies and to television shows, I'm going to, you know, Merv Griffin show, the Mike Douglas show, my young comedian special, you have to tell them because the band's going to play on your last bit. And you tell them so the band knows what the act. I'm going to open

up by doing this, but I'm going to close. I close. And this is before people know me. I'm going to take a rubber surgical glove. I'm going to pull it off my head. I'm going to pull it over my nose. I'm going to inflate it. It's going to pop off my head. Until it pops off my head, that's when you should hit the goodbye music, you know? And they go, well, what's the joke? I go, I don't know. But I promise you, when you didn't see me and you didn't talk about it, when you, this is a good closer.

Well, what is it? It's just a rubber glove on my head and I'm going to pop it off. I remember, I'll just tell you really quickly, I'm not allowed to do it anymore. I'm not allowed to do it. I had a doctor tell me to stop. So I used to, I got really successful. And I was playing the crowds of 10,000, 12,000, two shows a night, every night in the 80s.

And every show, people would be chanting the glove, the glove, the glove. And I would inflate the glove and blow it up and they'd buy me gloves and sometimes they're thicker than others. One night after a show or right at the end, I'm blowing it up. And I tell you, somebody stuck a fucking knife in my eye. It felt like somebody was the worst pain. It just, and it popped off. The audience went crazy and the curtain's clothes. I said, you got to take me to the hospital. And they took me to an ER. And as it turns out,

I got checked, I had a perforation in my sinus, a perforated sinus. And the doctor says to me, well, did you, do you have a cold? And I go, no. And he goes, well, were you flying today? Did you fly? And I go, no. And he goes, do you have any idea how you would have perforated a sinus? I go, tell me something. And I wasn't that well known and he didn't know me. And I said, if one was to take a surgical glove each and every night and pull it over their head and inflate it with their nose could that pressure possibly perforated my sinus and he went yeah that that could that could possibly do it why and i said well because that's what i i do and he says well why would you why would you do that every night two times a night like why would you do that and i go it's it's my

job and he goes what do you do don't do that don't do that and just the way he looked at me like i know that that's absurd probably the same look your principal had with with the country yeah and i go but it's funny he goes well why is that funny like why is that funny i go i don't know but it's just bizarre and it's funny and he goes don't do it anymore and then i did a routine about you know i have a note from a doctor to not do that wow and uh i forget what the question was but it's always a it's a pleasure talking to you yeah well RIP, your eustacean tube, the poor eustachian tube and your sinus that took a toll from all the rubber gloves. Well, that's kind of a eulogy, right?

Yeah. It's a eulogy for me. Well, could you have to retire your, your glove act? I did. But didn't it heal? I think it healed. I'm sure it healed. But it's not something that I would recommend doing over and over again. Thank you.

I wasn't looking for a second opinion. No, you know. Doctors like to give opinions. Yes, there you go. Thank you so much, Howie. I appreciate your, your genuineness. your honesty and you sharing a lot of your mental health struggles because I think they will resonate with people and hopefully encourage people to go and seek help when they need help and get everybody

to therapy because I think we could all benefit from it. And thank you because in lieu of having my therapy session this week, this, this was fine. Perfect. This was it. Thanks so much to Howie Mendel for being so open in this conversation. I hope it was educational and informative for you and help if you're someone or know someone struggling with OCD or other similar mental health issues. If you enjoyed this episode, you might also enjoy my appearance on the Howie Mendel Does Stuff podcast

where Howie and his daughter definitely got under my skin about some difficult medical subjects. But before you do that, though, please give this episode five stars if you enjoyed it because a positive review is the best way to help us find new listeners for the show.

And as always, stay happy and healthy. Thank you.