The Checkup with Doctor Mike - How Netflix Reality TV Almost Broke Joey Sasso

Episode Date: April 7, 2023

Watch the full video interview with Joey Sasso here: https://go.doctormikemedia.com/youtube/JoeySassoVOD Joey Sasso was the winner of The Circle season 1 on Netflix and has gone on to appear in several other reality and dating shows on Netflix like The Perfect Match... but what kind of effect does that have on a person? Fame, money, and glory are all things Joey wanted, but it turns out they came at an unexpected cost. I was a huge fan of Joey's and after circling each other for years we finally pulled off an interview so I could get inside the head of this upstate New York kid from the inner city. We discussed his extreme battle with mental health and addiction, his bruised upbringing boxing in Syracuse, the incredible drive he had to be an actor in Hollywood, and how pivoting to a life in reality tv was one of the most unexpected and fascinating decisions he's ever made. Follow Joey Sasso: IG: https://www.instagram.com/joeysasso/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/joey_sasso TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@joeysassoo?lang=en Executive Producer and Host: Dr. Mike Varshavski Produced by Dan Owens and Sam Bowers Art by Caroline Weigum CONTACT: [e-mail]

I'm not a sensitive dude. Like, I love having discussions with people who disagree with me on everything because that helps me learn. That helps me grow where I feel like people say that, but they don't. They want people who agree with them. Circle up, folks. It's time to welcome Joey Sasso to the Checkup podcast. He's the winner of the Circle, season one reality show on Netflix that was a huge hit

right before the pandemic. Now he's on another hit show called The Perfect Match. And if you haven't watched it, it's been top 10 on Netflix. for like the last seven weeks and it's continuing to rise a lot of drama on that show and he talks about the health and wellness implications of being on reality tv he's very open about his mental health and physical health struggles so i think this is a very illuminating conversation that i hope you enjoy as much as i did let's get started with a checkup podcast see i always say i'm like travolta training for the remake of saturday night fever just waiting for that day to come can i actually

dance? No, do I think I can dance? Yes. It's about your enthusiasm. Confidence is always high. Yeah. That's all that matters. Do I have rhythm? No. You don't need it. You're not competing. This isn't a competition when you're on the dance floor, right? I want to see Dr. Mike on the dance floor. I'm enthusiastically bad, but that makes it good. But that's why like you're endearing. This is why people love it. That's a good term. I don't know if people love me. There's Dr. Mike. There's haters. Here's the thing. Everyone has haters. I don't see any you. I just see love. Do you know how love you are? Really? Yeah. I'm curious where you see the love. Okay. Everything I see you post. Everything I see anyone talk about you. Okay. It's so

positive. And like you're handsome. You're educated. You take care of yourself. This is like the nicest therapy session. You drop dope content. Like you're on top. Like you check all of the boxes and like I don't know what personal life is. None of my business. I would just imagine that if If you were a single man, you would have a lot of suitors. I'm a single man. And you know what's funny? Checking boxes, you think that would be the formula for success? It's not.

Really? I'll be the first to tell you. Yeah. Because a lot of times when people see checked boxes and then the last box of being single is also checked, it's like a warning flag for people. So everyone comes with preconceived notions. Well, let me ask you this. Do you find it difficult to get serious with someone because you're so career-oriented?

No. No? No, I think I have trouble finding the perfect match. Finding the perfect match is difficult. Because I don't want to settle. And I've learned from past mistakes of getting into something too early. And this has been the longest time in my life that I have been single the last few years. And it's taught me that maybe taking it slow is the right path and being selective as smart because you're choosing something for your entire life.

Well, and that's the thing, though. I feel like there's such a pressure with dating today. I don't know if it's always been this way, but at least today, from what I see, from friends, people, that like you go into something with an intention of this is forever. Yes. Where I feel like it's so much more healthy to really know what you want, date around, figure out and let things evolve. Because I feel like when you put an expectation on something, you're only setting yourself

up for failure. And I feel like there's something to be set of forming a beautiful friendship with someone. Sure. That can evolve over time because I feel like. there's always a thing right i think we've all had this where you date someone you're open with them yeah but you're not a hundred percent open with them but you'll be a hundred percent open with let's say a best friend okay about things that you really feel things that you think about things like that where i feel like having a friendship first to me is the foundation of a beautiful

relationship i think that's true you also said something interesting you think most people know what they want you think that's true i'd like to think so i like to think that a lot of people have a direction of which way they want to go and knowing where they want their life to be as far as people being honest about that I think is up for debate because I think sometimes you can have people who really are saying like it's like sort of like you're meeting someone and presenting yourself as this perfect type of thing like I always tell people if I'm on a date let's act like this is fucking date number 12 oh like let's get fucking real what changes on date 12 for you you're comfortable you have a sense of relaxation I don't date like

Dating for me is extremely awkward. So you just said, screw it. I'm going to go do it in a public setting now. Yeah, I was like, you know what? Here's like, I don't date. So let's go do this on camera and just say fuck it and see what happens and roll the dice here. But for real, because I feel like you go on, like I have all friends. You go on dates and they're like, oh, it's terrible.

I'll never see him again or I'm never doing this again. And I'm like, okay, what if you were just vibing with someone and you just were friends? And there is no expectation of it. Am I going to see you next week? Am I going to hear from you? Like, it just lets things evolve more naturally, where when I feel like you put the stigma of like a date on it, it leads to an expectation.

So you change it to be a hangout as opposed to a date? Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, I feel like in today's world, like there's always people vibing on socials, things like that. But I like to just meet people organically. Like, I tried the dating app thing in the past. Not for me. What went wrong for you on the dating app scene?

I feel like I'm such an in-person type of dude. Like, I like looking at someone shooting the shit, really vibing, where it's like, all I hear from all of my girlfriends is how dudes are so thirsty. Okay. And it makes me feel very, because I always grew up to, like, respect women. So I'm like, okay, in what way am I going to slide in a DM that's going to be a stand? Like, I don't put that much thought to it. I'm Joey. I just say, what's good?

How are you? Like, let's vibe. Let's talk. But what honest thing can you really say? Besides, I think you're hot. Yeah. And that comes off Thursday every single time. And that comes off like you're an asshole, you're a fuck boy, you're all of these things.

So there's so much pressure, and especially in the world today of social when you're seeing people weigh in, I feel like there is such a way of trying to go about things because you don't know what's appropriate for someone because what's appropriate for someone is not appropriate for someone else. And even like for me, I love an aggressive woman. I love a woman who makes the first move. Oh, okay. So not like physically aggressive.

No, not physically aggressive. just like makes that first move confidence yeah because i feel like here's the thing men for the most part will go with anyone who will give them the time of day really i believe so okay for the most part it makes men feel important wanted uh validated where women like my father grew up telling me this when i was growing up it was like a woman can go out every single day have whoever she wants the drop for dime a man can be married all these things loyal faithful but one day one woman smiles at him and he is ready to risk everything that he has so you're saying men are hornballs i think men are hornballs for sure but i'm also not on the the track of fuck men because i feel

like there is so much of that today where i feel like i feel like men should just be more mindful of being respectful and going about things the right way because i feel like that does go a long way I mean, also, you've got to think historically speaking, men have been savages. Yeah, of course. In behavior, in cultural aspects, in professional settings. So I can see how that label starts sticking to men after a period of time. Yeah. Because, unfortunately, it does happen.

I'm curious from your perspective in meeting people who are, let's say, popular on social media. Yeah. The image they put out of themselves. Does it oftentimes match up to what you see in person? No. And I could say that for myself personally. You mean about yourself? Yeah, I think a lot of people who meet me and actually get to know me are very thrown

because I think people see me, for the most part, is this cocky, Jersey Shore type of dude, I always hear that, but people are often very shocked. They're like, dude, I'm a fucking nerd. Like, I grew up being a film lover. And when I say a film lover, like, I am a nerd. I collect physical media, vinyl records, vintage posters, movie props. I'm typically decked out in horror memorabilia. I'm a huge horror movie nut.

So like this for me is like I dressed up. I went all out today. I had to for Dr. Mike. Had to do it. Yeah. But you know, I think that there is a struggle as well because I moved out to LA to be an actor. That was my love. I was never chasing social.

I was never chasing reality television. It happened. And I'm so blessed for that. But now I've been put into a realm of you have to be an influencer, a content creator. and I don't know how to do that because I've never been that type of dude like I always thought my wildest dreams I would play weird avant-garde characters and maybe people in the film community would take a liking to me I never had a big enough ego to think I'm going to take over and be the biggest star this town has ever seen yeah I mean I of course idolized those people

but I was also realistic that like the odds aren't in my favor and my term of success would be making a living at doing what I love. So with that being said, when it goes over to social, I think that a lot of people who have met me are very taken by how quiet I am, more so than big and energetic, because that is a part of my personality, but I think people think that's just me 24-7.

Do you think your personality is different on Netflix versus social, or it's the same on both? No, I think my personality on Netflix has definitely come through, but I do think like anything, there's editing. Sure. You know, like,

So are you saying those shows are unfairly edited? No, I think that they are fairly edited. Really? I do. I think that here's the thing. I cannot stand when people go on reality television shows and bitch and complain about the edits that they get because here's the thing. You give footage and editing is part of the process.

Like they are there to make a show. So I'm not going to sit there and complain about things. Like, look, there have been things I don't think I look great with that I would disagree with, but I also know we're there to make a show. And my job is to be a professional show up and give 100% of myself every single day. That's the job. So I feel like it's very contradictory to go and do that and then sort of go on your socials and start blasting and doing things. Like, come on, man. Like I always say, if you're really that upset, go in LA, go into any bar, any restaurant, and ask the bartender or waiter what they wish they were doing right now to

make a living because I guarantee you they're trying to be in the business trying to get somewhere and I was that kid I struggled for so many years so I know what it's like to really grind and hope for an opportunity so I'm not going to get an opportunity be extremely blessed for that and then go and blast those people who gave me that opportunity I think that is just so unprofessional and just not right what about the idea that if they turn a situation or tell a situation from one side more than the other and that leads you to getting attacked on social media and then it takes a toll on your mental health do you see that ever playing out i mean it happened to me on perfect match okay for sure like i i had to log out of my socials because whoa um the circle was just love

and i never expected that show to be a hit like when we were making it i remember uh telling people on the crew i'm like fuck he's going to watch this like we're set up the show for people who haven't watched it so circle this is this is my go-to show by the way at peak pandemic times so the circle is a reality competition show the first Netflix ever did where you take starts out with eight contestants who are locked away in an apartment and you're communicating on a social media app called the circle and the entire pitch of the show is you don't know who you're talking to is real or fake it's essentially a popularity contest where your goal is to get to the end if you're ranked in the top you're an influencer which gives you the power to

block people i can't believe i got all that out Holy shit. You got it out accurately, but it also paints a picture of a very narcissistic show where you're blocking people trying to climb the social ladder. I didn't understand anything with this show for the first two weeks of filming because I don't watch reality television. So all that made sense to me was some people are real. Some people are fake.

I'm going to find those motherfuckers. We're going to get them out of there. You thought it was clue. Bro, 100%. Like I remember go back and watch those first few episodes and it's just me talking shit to people. Okay. Because I'm like, yo, my job. is to find these scumbags and get them out the game where then I realized oh wait this is actually

about making friendships and accepting people for whoever they say they are okay I could I could get on board with that but again in theory imagine you're being pitched this show yeah you don't know what the hell because they're like it's a competition show some people are real some people aren't fake but it's also people get eliminated there's ratings blockings and I'm like yo yeah that's scary how accurate is it from what they pitch you the concept is going in versus to what it ends up being. Is there any difference between those two? The circle, 100% accurate. Really?

Yeah, 100% accurate. I would just say I remember telling all of them not to tell me much because I'm the type of dude. If you tell me too much, I'm going to stress and I'm going to overthink and I'm going to have an end goal in mind, which is going to make me not be authentically myself. So I'm the dude that's like, yo, throw me in deep water. Like, let me learn how to swim. We both were boxers.

I was a fighter growing up. Oh, wow. Okay. So that's, you know, how I learned how to fight was they didn't prep me. I was the only white fighter in a 400-mile radius. It was, we're throwing you in. You're going to get your ass beat, and you're going to learn how to take a beating and sometimes give it.

So that's how I've always been. Brutal. Okay. So that you did that. But then you said the circle was honest, where other shows not? Perfect match was. I would say perfect match. It was, again, a first season of something bigger that, you know,

Netflix has spoken openly that they want to do. a sort of reality universe of shows and this was their first show to do that of bringing their most popular people together so there was so much more mystery to what we were actually doing we knew it was a dating show we knew it was a competition show that's really it so there was so much speculation about what's actually what is this going to be like what like what what's happening and like i got to give all the props in the world to kinetic and netflix for keeping everything under wraps and keeping the mystery alive because when I go back

to that first episode of the show I could see the excitement in my eyes when Nick Lechay walks out which by the way we fucking love Nick Lechay love that man. I believe it. I could see it from all you guys.

Bro, he's the goat. But like we didn't know. Like what is what is the show? What's a concept? And like when you're in Panama waiting to start filming you gotta do the quarantine period you're sitting in a hotel room.

And your mind is for a while. You're like, yo, what could be happening here? Especially because you've seen too hot to handle So you're like, if they're pulling that on people, what are they pulling on us? I have a confession to me. Oh, no. Tell me. I have never seen one episode of Too Hot to Handle.

Out of anger, spite, just not interested. Here's the thing. Like, when the circle came out, it was sort of like the three ring trifecta. We had the Circle in January. Love is Blind in February. And then Too Hot to Handle, I think April, right after. And I was just meeting the people. from the cast because like we were all coming up at the same time got it so it was more so of like oh

so and so slid my dms what's good bro like nice to meet you you hope you're killing it on the show like i just was never someone who was like seeking the shows out at that point it was a blessing just to get to meet the people which i much prefer because i have friends who will tell me i got a bad edit or this didn't look great i don't know just because i know the person i don't really know the show so I feel like that's helped me be completely unbiased when meeting people got it did you um get along with anyone extremely well off of the first seasons of all those shows there like who is your person yeah um for the circle it was definitely shubes shubes we love shubes and miranda miranda to this day but honestly Chris Sammy like I there's I'm not bullshitting this I would tell you there is

no bad blood between any of us really we are all legitimate good friends like that first season dude like there was something really special that all of us just became really good friends extremely close and we kicked off the reality scene at Netflix which is nuts like because when we were filming it I said I was like yo no one's going to watch this like this is crazy and I went back you know I was slinging drinks in LA at the oldest gay bar in LA that was my survival job so I won the show never thought that was going to happen my mother's life winning to me was making it to the end because I'm competitive as fuck. To me, I was like, yo, winning 100 grand,

that will never happen in my lifetime. But I can try to make it to the end. To me, like, that's winning. I'm on the entire show. When I actually won, I didn't know what, I couldn't speak for 24 hours. I remember it vividly. I could not talk.

And I just remember thinking, like, I was going through such a low point in my life that. During that time? During that time. Wow. Yeah, I was secretly an addict. So I'm sober now. Wow.

Going through a drug and alcohol problem, which no one knew. about clinically depressed, so much stuff going on and just so miserable with where my life and career was because I didn't think the circle was going to change my life. When I got offered the opportunity, how I got casted was the gay bar that I worked at. One of my friends who worked there is also a casting director. And he told me, I'm casting this thing. You have to come in for it.

And I go, what is it? Said Netflix is doing this reality show. And I go, I don't do reality. Because all you're told in L.A. when you're studying, and I'd been studying for so many years on my acting is don't ever do reality because you'll be, you'll be fucked. Like typecast. Well, they just won't take you serious as an actor where I think that was still very much an old school mindset of you can do one thing. That's it where now it's you want to be able to do everything. So I was like, I'm going to

go to the audition because how many auditions do I go on where nothing happens? Don't want to burn a bridge. I never did a reality audition where it was like you talked. You told you. You to me right now. Wow. And just me being able to talk and be myself where acting auditions is, hey, I'm Joey Sasso. I'm reading for the role of Mike. Yeah. Action. Yeah. Do your thing. You're out the door. Where my family had always said, if people could just see your personality, they would really fall in love with you. And I was like, okay, I get to get out of slinging drinks for 30 days and go to the UK. Yeah. Let's fucking go. Like I was just like, let's just go have a good time. I have nothing invested. I don't think I'm going to win this thing. It was lightning

in a bottle in the most pure way and I don't think anything will ever touch that. And you think the low point came after you finished filming that? No, I think the low point was already happening in my life. I was with someone for a very long time, went through a really bad breakup, which I had never been through before. We'd lived together. We had so much of our life together. And I was trying to at a very young age wear so many different hats and not being true to myself with what I was feeling and just feeling like you're in a hole and then the hole gets deeper and deeper and deeper and I think that success afforded me the opportunity to be able to play a part so to speak of I got it all figured out I'm great everything's great and I always say like I was ready for that

I spent my whole life studying the business and being waiting for that door to open so when it opened i was able to walk through it what i wasn't okay with was the downtime and being able to go home i was able to go out and be the best version of myself that i could be but when i went home things weren't good and i wasn't good so i really hit a rock bottom where it was like dude if you don't get your shit together you're going to fucking die that's it's going it's not an if it's a matter of when so i knew i had to change my life i think the pandemic really brought that on a lot more because I could not leave home like anyone else couldn't. More silent time, yeah.

Yeah, and I think it just made me really reevaluate a lot, and that's why I wanted to go on perfect match. I'll tell you the truth. The main thing for me was I know this is a dating show. I know what comes with that, which is partying, having fun, cutting loose, and I wanted to show, I can go and do that and be sober. So when we talk about things that were edited,

I'm not going to complain and bitch about it, but I talk so much about my sobriety and what I'd been through and why, I was there to put myself out there, and none of that made the show. So they didn't want that as a storyline? No, and I understand to some people it could seem kind of minuscule, but I would say, for me, I speak so openly on sobriety, and I've had people from all over the world who reach out to me to tell me their stories of overcoming addiction, being inactive

addiction, suicidal, trying to overcome that. So, like, for me, speaking on being sober was the most terrible. terrifying thing I've ever done because I'm like I'm admitting to such in my mind a flaw that can be held against me and I know the way people see me and I don't want to let people down but I also want to be transparent and hold myself accountable. So am I going to do this? Fuck it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to put myself out there. So once I did that, it sort of was the best of both worlds of feeling a huge weight being lifted but also feeling a huge responsibility to be transparent with that part of my life. because I am extremely private, which is weird because I'm in reality. Yeah, I'm in the reality realm. I have a following. But again, I never was sort of going for that. So to tow that line has been very interesting for me because I love letting people into my life.

I love that I have people who support me, but I do think that there should come a line in the sand where this is for me, this is my life. Some private time. This is not for you. And I think I try to pick and choose very carefully with what those things are. Can you take me through that private time when you said it was a low point after you come back from a show or maybe the celebrations and you are low? What thoughts are going through your head that are taking you to a dark place? You know, I remember when the circle had wrapped, I was just back to normal life.

I was slinging drinks and I was just depressed, man. Like I was eating pills all day long, able to put it together to go to the gym. It's actually very funny. I always tell people I was in the best shape of my life and looked the best that I look. when I was at my lowest because I knew I was suffering from an addiction which I would never admit to anyone or myself but I knew I had to look good so no one would ever suspect that because we have an idea of what an addict looks like so if I'm ripped up in the gym every single day no one's going to ever think I have an issue with anything so be able to hold it together go to the gym

and to go to work and sling drinks that was it when I was at home couldn't get out of literally could not get out of bed like there would be mornings I would wake up if I wasn't taking up or I wasn't getting up and, you know, such a different cocktail of pills, alcohol, cocaine, tons of things that were just terrible and were really killing me. And it was a lot of trauma I didn't deal with in my life, a lot of things that I'd went through. And I got into therapy after, you know. How did that transition happen? What made you decide to go into therapy? So therapy was the first thing. And that was when I was sort of at that low, point after that relationship had ended. And I was like, I think I really need a life

preserver right now. I need something to grab onto because I've never felt this low and it's scaring me. Of course. And I think I grew up with a very old school Italian family where it's like you don't go to therapy. Yeah, grit down, bear down. Yeah, you're a man. You be a man. You know, you hold certain things in and, you know, I was like, I need this. And I've sort of found for myself because even as I was walking here today, I'm on the phone my mom. What are you doing? Where are you going? Like, I've talked to my parents 20 times a day, but I found that I have to do things for myself first,

and when I decide to let them into certain things, that's what I'm ready. So I got myself into therapy, but it was dealing with more of my mental problems than dealing with my physical addictions. I wasn't ready to speak on those. I wasn't ready to admit that. Because in my mind, I don't drink every day. So I'm fine. Yeah. So I go out on a bank, So you didn't think it was a problem or you knew it was a problem but didn't want to talk about? Both. You're saying to yourself something's not right. I know I have an issue, but then you're trying to justify it in your mind with why it's okay and why other people do the same things. Because again, we have visuals in our heads of what addiction looks like. I mean, we've all seen intervention. We sit there and go, I'm not that fucking guy. I'm not sleeping on the street or selling my body or

doing this or that for for rocks or to shoot up so i i had to really open my mind to realizing that i'm an addict i've always been an addict and when i go back to my childhood and i look at the way that i am wired it is there i am so obsessive compulsive if you give me something to do i'm doing it all or nothing there is no 50 percent i'm going a hundred percent and i sort of sometimes will act before i think and just be so into it so part of getting clean for me was admitting that to myself realizing it and then saying i need to put some things in place here to make sure that i'm okay because it's very easy for someone like me to not be okay got it so you needed to create some boundaries for yourself within your life and now you're at the

slow point and then you have this huge breakout situation with the circle, does that take you out of the low place or temporarily? Or does it actually put fuel on the fire and make it a bigger problem where you're partying more, celebrating more? You know, I would say it made it better because I've always lived for my career. I was at the lowest I had been mentally in my life because my career was not where I wanted it to be like since I've been three years old I've known what I've wanted to do it has never changed I was never going to take over my father's business like so many people do or go to college I was moving to L.A. to pursue a career in film and I was going to die trying to make it happen and I knew I had nothing else I could do and the saddest part of my life would be knowing I didn't achieve what I was put here to do

and I could end up being a bartender or waiter for the rest of my life so that added to severe depression once I got a break and doors started to open I was so ready for that like I killed it with every opportunity I was given every person that I met and I think a lot of people that I met that were very established were very impressed by the fact that I was as smart as I was about the industry because again you're watching me on a reality show being a loud Italian kid screaming at a screen sure but to sit there and actually talk about the ins and out to the industry of the behind the scenes things they're like fuck are you like what is going on here so those are some of the aspects i mean about surprising people when they would meet me um but it really helped me be okay and be in a better

place and it helped me get sober because now i have my career now i i've started building a name for myself and to me it's like i have something to live for where i truly have always felt that I know what I'm meant to do and if I don't do that like it just it eats at me man I remember being 18 years old at an acting class in LA very prestigious school

a kid shows up late you're supposed to do a scene and the teacher starts laying into him and she was a working actress and she goes points to all of us in the class and she goes every single one of you motherfuckers are going to get an opportunity if you're going to be ready

is going to be on you and that haunted me for years because I'm like fuck what happens if my my shot comes and I'm not ready and that could pass you forever so I think for me it's it gives me something to stay grounded and working towards because I do think that there is something into having a real pride in what you do and loving it like I'm that type of dude that thinks being a workaholic is great I think it's sad that most people don't love what they do and settle for a nine to five like yo life is fucking short find what you want to do find what you're good at what's your passion i don't care what it is i don't care

what it pays do that so i'm curious and what would you say to yourself if we're going into an alternate universe where you don't get the opportunity for circle and you're still doing the job that you don't want to do but you are working towards your thing and you're horribly depressed i would say you need help i would say that you need to realize that you can get everywhere you want to get, but you need to be okay first. And that was something that I never thought because it was just career, career, career, career. Like I remember after that serious breakup, there was a conversation that took place between me and that person that haunted me for a long time. That was the person telling me, I have no doubt you are going to achieve everything that you want in life. You are so amazingly

talented your personality people love you you were born to do this but i think you're going to be horribly miserable and alone when you achieve that and that fucked with me for a long time because i'm like well i mean you live in l.a a long time you see people like that they have everything they've achieved but are they actually happy and that's the push and pull of what's really most important and i feel like over the last i'd say two years i've been sober two years four months now i would say the thing I've worked on most is saying it's okay for me to have a private life, to have a personal life and to be happy and both career and personal can coexist with the right people and trying to find balance because I don't think I'm a person who's ever had balance.

That's true. True for most of us, meaning. Sometimes I see individuals will find a partner and then define themselves based on their partner and that becomes part of their identity. So when the partner leaves, they go through a very terrible situation. Then they find a career that they find becomes their identity. And if that career ever something happens, whether they get laid off, the show gets canceled, whatever, something outside of their control, something, nothing to do with their talents or abilities, that they then go into a dark place.

Do you feel like you're past that or is that always a potential thing that you're worried about? I think I'm honest enough with myself to know that it can always be there. It will always be there. Meaning that I have to be mindful that I could slip into a dark place. And it couldn't be for being for someone else or anything. It could just be because of me of what I'm going through, not being happy with where I'm at because I always want more. I always expect more.

And I set the bar extremely high for myself. Like I have nothing wrong with, let's say, like I'll use the boxing analogy. I have nothing wrong with losing to a better fighter than me. If I get in the ring and you beat my ass, dude, I'm holding your hand up. We just went toe to toe. I gave you every fucking thing I had. You showed up today. I didn't.

God bless you. But when it's me not bringing my best and I have to live with that, that can fuck with me. So I think to be honest, it's a very, it's weird because I talk to people in groups and I do A.A. And I like to do meetings and shit like that, that, you know, I'm genuinely such a happy person. I wake up every day with a smile on my face, and that's not fake. I feel that every single day, but I'm also aware that within me there's that voice. And that voice can drag me down or bring me up. So I try to make that voice my best friend and really lead with my best foot forward, but I'm human.

I have good days and bad. And sometimes the bad days can be bad, but they are nowhere near as bad as they once were. That's powerful because ultimately, you know, everyone wants to see you succeed and grow with all the fans that you've developed from all this time on television, do you imagine yourself kind of as a spokesperson for the negative effects or even the positive effects on mental health from reality shows? Yeah, you know. Because it seems like you're the one that's talking about it most. Yeah, I would love to. It's actually funny. I love public speaking in high school. It's a great story. They had public speaking. The teacher had to call my father and say,

we have to fail him he's the best public speaker we've had i've had in 20 years of teaching but he doesn't do the assignments i would just get up in bullshit speeches i remember i literally did a speech on how to because i i didn't know today's a how-to yeah but i love i love public speaking and talking about things that are that are you know close to me because i feel like most people don't and i the one thing i don't like in today's society is there are victims who go through a lot of things, but I don't like victim mentality. I think that it really takes away from people who try to speak up and should have attention put on them when they go through something. And I don't think every person is a victim. I just think that, you know, when we talk about mental health

and things, I think it's important that even for people you see on reality television or in film or music, your people, we struggle the same way that anyone else struggles. And I don't see a lot of people talking about it and I try to always bring good vibes and be positive because that's how I was raised. That's who I am. And when I talk to friends who go through shit, they don't speak on it. They'll talk to me about it. I mean about their negative moments? Yeah, about their mental health struggles, things that are really affecting them. Like even to turn it over to perfect match, there's been, I won't name names, but a ton of cast members who have really struggled with a lot of things through this experience. I struggled with it.

as well i turned off my my socials and was just like yo i'm logging out for a minute my dad was so mad at me he's like what the fuck are you doing like you need to be present you need to be my dad i am dealing with crippling anxiety crippling anxiety that i've never dealt with before this was not like the circle for me but i don't blame the show i don't blame the people i just think i had never done something like this where you're putting so much of yourself out there for the world to judge because i'd friends who told me dude like dating shows are a different beast and I'm going it's a fucking Netflix dating show with popular people from different how who you're a friendly with yeah like I'm dude I was like legit friends with like almost every person there and then was friends with everyone

by the time we left but I'm like how serious could this be people take this shit serious oh bro like well that's a great question for you then you've been a boxer you've been a reality star what takes a specifically with those two I'm interested which one of those two takes a bigger toll on your mental and physical health which is harder oh reality really yeah for sure

I mean because I mean so getting punched in the face is easier than that's natural I mean I grew up in a gym I was fighting from the time I was five or six and that just was my everyday life for so many years and learning how to condition myself take care of myself and as you know from doing it like it becomes like you like getting hit

in a certain point like it's it's just a part of what you do it's it's an art it's a craft where i feel like you know reality television is such a blessing because it really lets you show yourself to the world but it lets you open yourself up to judgment in a way that i don't think most people could deal with because you're literally saying this is who i am and in today's world everyone has the power of having a phone in their hand to sit there and weigh in on the littlest things you could do the biggest things you do that are a moment that happen in a day which i get in a television show it's like a big moment but like how much shit happens in your life throughout the course of a day of course you know what i mean and i think that what i've seen that i have to

give props again to netflix kinetic to all them they did really well of letting us do like training courses of being aware for mental health for all these different things like they did so that's part of it part of the preparation oh yeah i mean i dude i think social media just changed everything i mean i always make the analogy to sometimes i've seen people on shows who go in with the mentality of trying to be the person they watched on reality shows 10 years ago just think back to like jersey shore we all love that show that was great yeah look at all what that show was it was guys just hooking up with girls raiding girls like doing that would never fly today that was back in a time when the villains were the most popular and loved people where today people don't like that people like people who are

genuine and nice and i think being a villain is cool but just not being an asshole to put it bluntly how what so besides the mental health preparation is there anything health-wise that the shows make you do before going on circle perfect match um yeah uh again like there's always so many things you have to talk to psychiatrists really and and go through do you have any mental health stuff uh do you struggle with things do you uh have any active addictions like they really make sure that they're not putting someone who's not mentally fit to be on a show so they could potentially exclude you based on a diagnosis uh i don't know how the medical terminology would go but i would assume if you were sitting there saying i'm bipolar let's say for example when i'm not on medication

it could be a medical risk to put you on a set, maybe. Interesting. And I don't know if that's 100% sure, but I know that you have to go through those background checks before you get to a stage of filming. Yeah, that's really interesting. And, you know, I'm curious your take, you brought up the victim mentality earlier.

You'll see people will write comments to you and say, well, Joe, you spoke about the victim mentality. You're making money off these shows. You're incredibly popular. People message you all the time. Isn't what you're talking about, right now how hard it is just you having the victim mentality yeah i mean here's the thing you can't win with anything it doesn't matter what you speak on what you try to advocate for what you try to speak

against no matter what you do there are going to be people who are going to say you're wrong you're an idiot you're stupid so my thing is just like when i do speak on things because i don't speak on things very often like you'll never see me talk politics which number one if you're coming to a reality kid for a political point of view there's something wrong with you That's first thing because people always reach out with what do you think? I'm like, bro, I don't fucking know. I don't even follow this shit. But I just think that there's, you know, something to be said of when you do decide to speak

up. It should be something that you're really passionate about and have a clear viewpoint out because I think what you see a lot today is let's say something happens today. It's a big headline. Everyone's got a way in. They get the clicks. Well, you're speaking on things you don't even know about. You have no knowledge about where I just think that's.

incredibly ignorant. So I like to sit back, take things in, and when I speak on something, really have a clear point of view. And if someone agrees with that, okay, if you disagree with that, that's fine. That's part of being human. I don't have any, I'm not a sensitive dude. Like, I love having discussions with people who disagree with me on everything, because that helps me learn. That helps me grow where I feel like people say that, but they don't. They want people who agree with them about everything. Well, I think it depends on the time of moment in your life because if someone's going through something, there's usually two types of ways to help that person.

When I explain further, it'll make more sense. Basically, let's say you're going through a breakup. And you come to me and you're like, Mike, this is what happened to me, such and such said this. I have one of two options. I have to recognize, are you here for moral support and you just need my ear and you just want me to listen and say, wow, dude, can't believe this happens to you. or are you in the mood for truth seeking right where if you're a truth seeking I'm going to challenge

you I'm going to talk about their point of view I'm going to see are you really right and if you misjudge that as a person who's trying to be supportive man that could backfire hard yeah but that's the thing is I could say for myself with that scenario you just gave I'm the dude who always wants the brutal truth that's just how I was raised like I was never given excuses from my parents, there was never that thing. If you were wrong, you were wrong. And I have really tried to keep my circle, no pun intended, very small of people who are my rider dies, who are going to look at me and say, you're being a fucking asshole.

Or you're right, you're wrong, and not try to tell me what I want to hear because I do feel like a lot of people surround themselves with those people. I could see how you say the pendulum does swing too far at times, but you have to admit that we need compassion for some people who are just going through a run. where everything's going wrong and you can't give them advice. I truly believe every person deserves love. And I think not a lot of people have had that. And I think that is something that truly breaks my heart because I've been so blessed in

my life to have the most amazing family and have so much love and support. And that's why I do try to speak on things. And when people reach out to me and pour their hearts out to me with their stories, I mean, dude, like, there'll be nights. I'm a night owl. I don't sleep. It'll be three, four o'clock in the morning, and I'm laying in bed with fucking. Why don't you sleep?

Oh, dude, I've never slept. I've been way my entire life. So you sleep just like a delayed onset of sleep? Like you sleep from three to ten or something? Here's the thing. If I pass out, I'm out. I crash. But getting to that state of falling asleep, extremely difficult.

I've been like this since I've been a kid where I just, my body just does not get tired. And if it does, then I get that second wind. my sisters call me a vampire because I wear all black every day and I'm up all night long watching films nowadays responding to messages doing things like that I just I've never had that sun's up I'm up smiling cup of coffee like no I want to be up when everyone's asleep and so do you sleep the same like seven to nine hours or not no not at all what are you sleep last night I slept I went to bed at 5.30 in the morning I woke up today at 9 a.m. but you know that's not healthy right oh of course it's terrible but that it's it's fucking awful

it's terrible for you but it's it's it's one of those things where i've just like sort of accepted this is the way that it is like when i got newly sober i did force myself to get into a schedule of going to sleep at i want to say 10 or 11 o'clock and i woke up at 5 a m every day and be at the gym because i just needed that outlet to be like i'm on a schedule i'm on a schedule But because I'm so obsessive-compulsive, it drove me fucking nuts of like, I need to be in bed by 9.30 on the dock. And if you weren't, then everything fell out. Or everything in my mind just fell off.

So like, yeah. Have you heard of different chronotypes, sleep chronotypes? No. So basically, Matthew Walker, who's been on the channel before, he's a world-renowned sleep expert from UCLA. And he talks about how there's different types of individuals who sleep during different parts of the day. And his theory, and it's supported by some evidence, actually, is that nature sort of made it this way

so that you can have some people sleeping during the night, most people. Some people sleeping a little bit off two hours later. Some people sleeping a little bit later. That way you constantly can have someone keep guard. Wow. And there's individuals who truly cannot get sleepy normally until 4 or 5 a.m. And prefer to sleep till 12th. Yep.

And that's their sleep chronotype. And they've been unfairly treated in our society because we don't vibe with that. School starts at a certain time. Work starts at a certain time. And if you don't comply with that, you're lazy and we label you. That just made so much sense to my entire right.

I'm just going back to like sixth, seventh grade right now, rethinking everything. No, that makes complete sense, man. But I mean, I've met so many people who are the same way, who are night owls, insomniacs. And I feel that that's another term. I feel like term just get thrown around. So Lucy today, oh, I have insomnia.

No, I really have insomnia. Like, that's always been a thing. So, uh, maybe you just have this delayed onset of sleep. Maybe, man. Yours goes a little bit later than most. I lay there. You've been unfairly anxious. Why can't I fall asleep?

And then that makes you less likely to fall asleep when it's time to fall asleep. And also when you're wired like that and you're up all night and you're not sober, you fall into very bad habits. And anxiety starts peaking and all these things that is exact the opposite of what you want for dude, I got to tell you anxiety for me is a fucking, that's a new thing. I didn't really struggle with that before. for but since I got sober and since I like cleaned up my life that's something that is really set in now tremendously and the only reason I could think of is because I don't have vices

to put in myself anymore to numb or you know it's like sometimes you feel a hundred percent of everything and that's still very new with a lot of things well basically those medications or substances used to be a way for you to control this anxiety from coming on And now you're going to have to learn a new way of controlling them that is a little bit more difficult or new to you. Oh, dude, it could really set you back. When you're not used to that and it hits you, you're like, what the fuck is happening right now? Like, it's nuts. What are your thoughts when you're in that anxious spiral?

What are you, what's your concern? So it's funny. I remember when I used to struggle with it when I wasn't sober, there was a few times I went to the ER. Because I thought I was having a heart attack. And I would have. Full panic attack. Yeah, I would have pains in my arm, my left arm. I would walk in thinking I'm dying.

They would take my heart rate and they, I remember one time they asked me, how much cocaine did you do? And I didn't. And I was like, I just was driving and it just came on. But now I feel like it always comes down to this crippling fear that everything's going to end, everything that I've worked for because now I'm starting to get somewhere. Now I'm starting to move forward in my life and try to really build a name and a brand for myself that somehow some way it's just all going to come crashing down do you think that's a

normal thought you're having yes and no i think the normal part is i think everyone deals with fear of of the unknown i think the part that's not natural and i always relate this back to being in show business entertainment i truly believe most people cannot comprehend what it takes to make a career in that field and what type of lifestyle that entails. I feel like you can try to explain it to people. I think they see the glitz and glamour of television, this and that, but to what it really takes to sustain

and have longevity and build, I don't think people could ever understand that. I see what you're saying when you mean like yes and no, that this is a very unnatural situation, being exposed to this many people, trying to continue that level of success. So I think the way that, that I think about it, I'll sort of tell you from my,

not even being a doctor, from just being a person's sense, is you're in a situation where you worked really hard for something, you have it, you don't wanna lose it. That's a normal emotion. Like if I just got a brand new car, the last thing I wanna do is crash it. So the anxiety of that is normal, where it becomes pathological and it becomes a disorder

and a problem, this is my doctor hat coming on, is that fear and anxiety and nervousness becomes so much so that it prevents you from living other important major aspects of your life, like eating, showering, having close friendships, relationships with family, being able to go to work. Now this leaves a healthy emotion like anxiety that is normal to have with certain situations

to the point where it becomes a disorder and we need to help teach some tools, coping mechanisms to get out of those situations. Dude, the five senses, like what can I touch, feel, smell, like all of those things have, been something that's really helped anchor me down in those moments of just like I think the biggest thing for me at least is just you got to shut off your phone you have to that's a trigger for you oh for sure like if because I feel like just in general you have so much information coming at you

for sure all day so it's not natural like we don't know what this is going to do to our brains like this is still so new I just think um putting that down for me listening to a record big vinyl guy put in my headphones listen to a piece of music that I love and just really focus on my breathing and telling myself you're okay everything's going to be fine like I've been working on those sorts of triggers but I'm also aware of uh like let's just say for example you're dealing with trolls people want to just come at you the way I was raised the type person I am is who the fuck are you like I'm gonna fucking find you and we'll fucking let's talk about this shit like that you Liam Neeson but you can't

do that and i i know and i'm also like almost a 30 year old man i'm not going out trying to fist fight someone on what are you by doing that yeah and and but there is that thing of like that's the way i was raised if someone's shit talking you were coming at you you fucking go at them and when you're dealing with people who just want a reaction out of you who are just trying to get that dude it's fucking hard use that strategy yeah you got to come up with a new strategy dude it's hard to be the bigger person but but to tell you the truth like i really don't mind like just just like hate like there's different levels of shit right like if you just don't like me like that's cool like an example would be i love when a new show comes out i love going through twitter see i look for it

this is the problem and i'll and i will look i'll type in my name with the show to see what everyone's saying and i'll find people are shit talking let's say it's like i can't fucking stand joey he's the absolute words that i'll be like yo you should talk to my sisters they'd say the same thing like so you make a joke at it yeah i think but why don't you search up the people are saying good stuff and comment to them oh i do i i i see you balance it out yeah i i i i i I try to talk to everyone to tell you the truth because I think it's a blessing to have the opportunity that I have. And I also think, let's just be honest, dude, you're going on a fucking reality show.

Part of the fun of it is people like who they like and don't like who they don't like. You've done it. I've done it. We've all sat on the college and said, and past judgment. Love him. Fuck him. That's part of the fun.

I think that there's something different when people take things to an extreme of, like, really attacking, like in trying to and I saw that who do you think on perfect match got the most brutal attacks Francesca really why um I think that she went there to go in and do her thing the way she had to do it and I could say from myself uh from what I've seen online there were people being fucking vicious towards her calling her misogynistic names hateful things and I would respond to them be like fucking stop dude like it's a show like relax it's not that serious you're attacking someone but to tell you the truth man I can't think of many people who didn't get it in some capacity during the course of the show from what I seen I would say I got to give a shout

out to my boy Shane because this was his redemption show because I know love is blind was a very difficult experience for him this show was phenomenal for him so he had a blast which I'm so happy for him but yeah I think that a lot of people were being very vicious towards Francesco, very vicious, towards Dom, towards Georgia, towards myself. There was just a lot of, just a lot of negativity with this one. Do you trade the ratings for the negativity, or do you want the ratings and you'll take the negativity? I think you have to take the ratings with the negativity for the simple fact of you can't

run from it. This could be whether you're doing reality television or making a film. I mean, I always look at it like, you could star in a 300. million dollar Disney film that could tank it's happened your career's done people hate you you're the worst just no studio wants to work with you this is part of the risk of what you do you sign up for this so that's why I don't want to seem like someone who's just bitching and crying but like if you're asking me my honest feelings and emotions on it I'll speak on it but like you have to know what you're getting in for I think everyone knows that I just think again at a certain point

don't you even if you're not looking at someone you're looking at them through a phone like don't you realize i'm a human being yeah i think we lose that because we feel like we're so used to watching actors that we're like oh these are actors but they're not they're real people and a lot of them aren't as media trained or have experience like yourself in the industry to know what it's about so it's a shock actually hannah brown was just here from um the bachelor and the bachelorette and she was saying how she was just like a small town girl that came on to TV and to Hollywood and then she got blasted by comments like with a fire host she had no idea out of him and we forget that these people are just like us that if you

have you know millions of people judging you in a given moment it takes a toll yeah a unique toll one that that we're not even used to as a society yet but also what other people don't talk about with that is with people piling on it could take away further career opportunities that's true too from things that have nothing to do with you just from public opinion because I know how these people think they're sitting there casting or looking for people that they believe to lead a show or to do something not very well publicly liked or not this and that because they want everyone to be like you're going to deliver deliver deliver sure and sometimes they will take that person that they know is not well liked

because it's going to make people write in and say shit but yeah man for the most part like I can't tell you how many friends have reached out to me over the years because they have seen seeing how I've been able to handle things in my own career and do things and ask for advice because they were someone who just auditioned for something. Yeah, now it's happening. And they got cast and overnight, everything changed where I felt prepared for that and I cannot imagine not being prepared for that and just having it come at you at 100 miles an hour.

That has to be terrifying. That's scary. Before I ask you about your health, you mentioned some things that you wanted to spill the tea on perfect match. What happened behind the scenes? Dude, I mean, here's the thing to spill. it was just fucking crazy there was so like you watch the show and it seems great there was so much ego going on during this fucking show because you got you got to look at it like it was pitched

as Netflix's biggest singles yeah coming together so there was so many things that were happening of just bickering between people and for me I could say what was so stressful is like Shane calls me the middleman okay he's like I can't trust you because you're the fucking middleman he's like you're always in the middle like no one likes someone in the middle but like i am because i'm friends generally with everybody so if you're coming to me i'll give this is something that wasn't on the show mitchell came into the house um at this point i just met shane we had been boys i'm like yo i'm a fucking i'm gonna try to get him with chloe because i'm chloe's one of my best friends i could see that happening mitchell comes into the house and all of a sudden

mitchell was with chloe i saw that relationship i was there during that time so i'm going to talk to my boy Mitchell and be like, bro, if you have a shot here, you better fucking do it right. You better get your head out of your ass, commit to this girl. Do everything needs to be done? Now I'm in a weird position. Yeah. Because I'm good friends with Shane, good friends with Mitch.

Shane's mad at me for no reason. I did nothing besides try to be a friend of both of them. So it was shit like that that for me, like, I'm really not a confrontational person. Like, you watch the show. Yeah. Do producers come and whisper in your ear and tell you like, yo, work this drama in? Here's the thing I can tell you, 100% for my thing, everything, everything, everything. Because I've heard from other shows where they're like, work this out.

No, I've heard the same thing as well, but like, I think the difference with this show is you're working with all pros, so to speak. Okay. I love that you guys are pros. Yeah, like, how pathetic is that? It's not pathetic. No, no, but like, you have to laugh at it. Like, it's absurd. Like, and I think that really did make a difference during the making of the show.

And like, I'll give you an example. Francesca with that situation she's said not great things about me for every podcast she's done something you didn't see on the show was you saw a snippet in the beginning of me talking to her night one and saying look it I talk shit about you I said this that and the other thing about you I also wasn't sober I got a lot of flack for being an abuser or a fuck boy because I had sex with two women in my life while being a single man like no one has done that but I knew nothing with me and her would be romantic because I was friends with her ex so to me it was like let me try to clear the air here and start over so one thing that was cut from the show was it was sort of edited

to look like me Francesca and Carrie were like the three amigos or throughout the whole course of the show me and Francesca were really like close about a lot of things and all the things that people were picking her apart for she would come to me and talk to me about or Carrie separately and I'd be like dude do it like you're here to do what you want to do for you and i was watching her do her thing like yo she's absolutely killing it and you watch the show and she made great television and she's being true to herself so to see people um go on and on about her being a terrible person like really dude like if you're a single person do whatever the fuck you want to do you don't owe anything to anyone it is what it is but yeah those are things that didn't make the show it's unfortunate

that we're not on good terms now i don't i don't know why i why why no i i cannot tell you i have no idea we were extremely close uh me and carrie's relationship ended uh then it's like mine and her relationship sort of ended i think she's like being like the loyal friend but she's made a point to go and be like well he wasn't there for the right reasons well like francesca like come on rick who are you to say that like you saw me there every single day everyone's entitled yeah everyone's in touch but my i think the difference with me is again it goes back to if that's the way you felt like i again i i challenge anyone to find a clip on that show of me talking shit about anyone because if I'm going to talk shit to someone, I'm going to say to

you, I don't like the whole, Mike, we're boys. I'm going to go for an interview. Yo, fuck Mike. Like, I don't operate that way. I think it's unfortunate things that went that way, but I think at the end of the day, people have to do what's best for them. Sure. And especially given how confrontational and so many outside forces are at play when you're making a show like that or you're deciding what to say in a podcast. You know, you want to make ratings. You want to make views. You want to make it interesting. There's so many things. People are telling you things and DMing you stories. You don't know who to believe. So who knows what's going on. It's dude. And especially with a show, I think we had 22 people in the cast. It's a lot of people. And a lot of

people weighing in with personalities and opinions. So there has been a lot of drama throughout the course of the show's release. And again, like that gives me anxiety. So that's where I don't really weighing on anything i'm gonna sit back and i'm gonna pick up my phone and call my friends and be like are you okay do you need anything do you need to vent um are you really mentally in an okay space right now because you know when the entire world is weighing in on you with your personal life and something as intimate as dating that can really fuck with someone's mind yeah big time and i understand it's a fun dating show people just hooking up i wish the audience took it that way that and just had fun with it but yeah man i think uh part of the struggle with with this show this time

around was i really wish the cast were able to be united sort of like it was on the circle because i know when we wrapped all of us were it was like yo like i always have the mentality we just made something dope like i take the film mentality we went to war together and we came out on the other side we're going to have something dope that the entire world is going to see how amazing is that and I think we all felt that way when we've wrapped I think since the show has been released has not gone that way at all and there's lots of different camps and people are good with some people other people aren't good with others I think I'm good with everyone for the most part but it's one of those it's one of those things where I refuse to let the negativity

weigh into the positivity that I experience from the show that's good do you think you received more let's say DMs as the measure of interactions from the circle or from the show um from the circle for really yeah for dude the circle was a firestorm that i i remember sitting there dude like i'd be on my phone and i'd refresh and the followers would be going up 10 000 every five seconds like just up and then you go to your messages and it would just keep going and going and i just again have realized at this point that was the lightning that was the lightning in the bottom moment that's on the shelf sure that's not going to be touched anything else from now is is super cool. I did see, though, from this show that doing dating shows does bring a completely different

type of fan base. And people live for these shows. It's nuts. It's their livelihood. Yeah, dude. Do you, who's a coolest person that DM'd you from the circle? Coolest person that you're like, whoa, I can't believe this person's in my team. Fuck, I'm trying to think. I talked to Vanessa Hudgens for a minute. Okay. She was amazing. I was such a fan of hers. And I think I had reached out to her. And I think she had DM. me back, which was so dope. And she was just such a gracious person. And we just talked movies and shit that we were into, like horror films and stuff like that, which was super dope. Amy Polar, amazing. I will forever give my love to that woman. She sat down with me and really

showed me so much respect and wanted to help me in any way that she could and was very open about she's not a big reality television person, but, you know, all the people she works with are like, you got to watch a show and you got to watch this dude and she was like i remember we sat down and had dinner and she was like you know i was watching the show while researching you and it's so clear that you're an actor and you know how to play for camera and i told her i started years of improv and theater and all these things which that is reality television it is theater and improv like i was on a show with no one but myself yeah exactly where you have to be entertaining 24 hours a day so to sit down with someone like herself who is such a type of

tycoon in the industry and has done so much amazing work and to have her say, yo, dude, I see you. You're doing well. Keep going. That for me was like, oh, my God. Just that, like, out-of-body experience. Am I living somebody else's life? What is happening right now?

And I do say that the one thing that's bittersweet about the circle, I know everything happens for a reason. I understand that. The pandemic killed everything I had going. Like, I had really broken through and had so many doors opened and, and, you know, so many things lined up and it all went away overnight because it was the first time in history no one knew where the business was at like you know when we met yeah we were doing a show on on zoom so everyone was trying to do their own thing so there is something there that is a little

bittersweet about the experience for me just because I'm like I work so hard for that opportunity to really have my moment and try to go with it as far as I could and as far as other people I've DMs. I've DMs so many. I can't tell you how many times I DM Pamela Anderson being like, I loved you. Your posters were on my wall. My entire light, you still look great. You're doing great. By the way, the documentary on Netflix. Hopefully she's DMs you back now. Oh, dude, I would, oh my God, I have to say something else. This is nuts. Oh, tell me. You know who followed me the other day? Who? Carmen Electra. Wow. Dude, that's like you as,

Pamela. You asked my family. There was two women I loved Pamela Anderson and Carmen Electra. Okay, so I'm assuming you messaged her after she followed you. No, I didn't. Mike, let me tell you what. Are you scared? Dr. Mike, I messaged this woman like 10 times over the last three years tagging her in stories of like, who's your celebrity crush, who's your person?

I'm like, I can't DM her again. Like at this point, she knows I reached out. Like, this is just sad and depressing if I'm like, hey, Miss Electra. Thanks for to follow. That's awesome. Dude, I got so nervous when that happened. My face got beat red. And I was like, to my friend, I was like, Josh.

Carmen Electra just followed me He's like, why? I'm like, I don't know. So, this is my moment. That's why you were rapping, lose yourself when you walked in here. Bro, here's the thing. Because this is the moment.

I don't know if you know this about me. I'm the biggest diehard Eminem fame. Really? Okay. I was too growing up. I'm still in. I love everything. I mean, I love Evan,

too, but that's how I started from me. Like, obviously, some shady days. So I got to ask, what's your favorite Eminem record? I never did it by records because when I was young, I was really poor growing up and I would get my CDs illegally purchased

on Canal Street. So like they weren't the real records. Right. They would a lot of times either be singles or like randomly someone burn the disc with like three songs on it. But lose yourself is definitely one of my fears. Actually, for my boxing match,

I wanted till I collapse to be my song to walk out to. But it seems like every boxing guy does that song so I'm like, all right, I can't do that. You could do the till I collapse remix, which is not an official remix. It's a fan at it, but it's become very popular.

Oh, bro, it's Eminem, 50, Tupac. It's so great. Do you know what my walkout song was for Showtime boxing? My last match on Jake Paul's Undercar. What was it? It was, I Need a Doctor. Oh, my God, dude, that song goes so hard. If you're ever in bed and need to kill like 10 minutes,

watch M. and Dre's performance of I Need a Doctor at the Grammys. Oh, I got to see that. I know the music video by heart, but not that. Dude, the Grammy performance. Really? Oh, dude, it'll give you goosebumps. Oh, that was in an end. era of his career where he was sober but back because like it took him a while to get his

bearings back and every performance you just saw a man who was determined to just knock you out so I love that whole era of like recovery I think that was around 2011 2010 2011 like something special was just really happening in his career that time that was really cool um about your health I've read before that you were following a keto diet are you still doing that on and off I'm curious what drives that choice for you dropping weight okay drops weight easy when I had to get in shape for my movie that I made before to circle I was searching all different different things on so many different

supplements and that's when keto had just become like a thing I was like wait I can eat fucking burgers and steak like everything I live for every day and it was crazy how much weight I dropped and like felt absolutely fantastic i did that before a perfect match as well i basically uh ate nothing but texas day brazil which was in the hotel so every day i was just crushing sausages uh ribs things like that i know you know keto supposed to be moderate protein high fat bro i were high i was i was all in i went all in like here's the thing if i'm like at a home base i'll do the whole

meal prep i weigh everything out to the exact ounce and and in the gym doing everything everything. The thing I've struggled with since getting sober is gaining weight because now your meal, your appetite comes back. Sure. And I'm in a family that loves to eat. And when I lived in L.A., I was very disciplined because I could shop for myself, do things. So I've tried to be better of like doing intermittent fasting. I'll fast for 18 to 22 hours. I'll drink a gallon of water every single day. That's a big thing for me. But as far as proper eating and keeping my stomach down, that's something I've definitely struggled with now because my body's changing. I'm going to be 30 years old this year. It's not the same way as I was in my early 20s. So I do get worried with the keto

thing. My sister mainly yells at me because she's like we have bad hearts in our family. Yeah. Well, that's my warning that I was going to put out for you. It's awful for you, right? I don't want to say awful. I think that first of all, it's hard to keep on such a restrictive diet for that long period of time. Also got to be really, really well planned on it to make sure that you're not losing a lot of nutrients because some of the vegetables you can't eat, some of the fruits you can't eat. And as a result, you're not getting vitamins

and minerals that you need. And then also, because you're consuming such a high fat diet, long term, it's not clear what happens to your cholesterol profile because we've seen the cholesterol profile go up. And we know that a high cholesterol is really unhealthy for you and creates risk of heart disease, strokes,

all this stuff. We don't have perfect evidence to say if you eat specifically keto and your cholesterol goes up, does that equal the same risk? that if I eat really unhealthy diet, American standard diet, and have my cholesterol up and have those high risks. Does it still play out?

Maybe not one to one, but it's probably not ideal. I think it's safe to say that it's not ideal. Let me ask you, what have you found for you is a good balance, like for your diet? I don't like even the word diet because I think it implies that you have to be restrictive in this sort of conversation. And yes, it is a calories in, calories out. people will like you have all these weight coaches that are like screaming at people and discipline discipline yes discipline's part of it but really needs to be more of a lifestyle

thought behind it because anything that you're going to create a restrictive plan for yourself like how you did with your sleep yeah that's only going to last a certain period of time until you burn out of that motivation of course so it has to be some sort of creative long-term solution that you're saying okay I'm gonna eat during these times of the day because this makes sense with my lifestyle and I don't have to cut a lot out and maybe I start with a small change and work my way from there.

Are you a small portions guy? No, I'm a big fan of intermittent fasting with the exception of when I was training for my boxing matches because for those you need energy for training in the morning and at night. So I like intermittent fasting. I'll monitor my caloric intake

just so I don't overdo it. But in general, once you study weighing out your food for a period of a month, you kind of have a sense of how many calories are in things. Dude, it really shrinks your stomach. Yeah. Like, and there is no better feeling than when you are being on the ball with your eating

and you feel you yourself eat a meal that really fills you up and you feel full and you don't feel that because like, again, with me, it's either, oh, bro, like if I'm, if I'm doing like the restrictive stuff and I'm on the ball with it, I'm so, I won't cheat. I won't do nothing. If I'm not, I'm grub, like before I came in here, homie grub, two hot dogs and loved every many of it, and it was fantastic. Those are the unhealthy foods. And I don't just say unhealthy because of the cholesterol.

There's like preservatives in these foods that if we know we overeat them, they cause legitimate risks in cancer. And I'm the one that actually downplay some of these things. For example, people say red meat is a potential carcinogen. It's on the WHO scale of carcinogens that is on par with some of the evidence for smoking and, et cetera. Yeah. That risk needs to be understood as.

an absolute risk in your life. So if you're regular person, just taking a random person plucked from the population, your risk is 4%. Yeah. If eating red meat brings you to 5%, that's a 1% change. But that's really a 20% relative risk bump. Yeah. So they'll say eating red meat raises your risk by 20%. Yes, it's 20%, but really because it's small, it's 1%. Right. So then you have to weigh it into how that impacts your whole life. But the hot dogs and those like hyper-preservative foods are worse than the red meat. So have you, have you ever been a smoker? No.

Never. Never. I've never tried. God bless you. That's, yeah, I've been a lifelong smoker. Okay. It's terrible. So what does that mean?

I was just, when you're sitting there talking about eating, all this and that and and the meats and stuff, I think about how, this is so bad to say. But like, for so long, I was just like, oh, thank God I smoke. So I don't have to eat a whole bunch of shitty food. I know. It makes no sense. No, it makes sense. Okay.

I see where you're saying. But, but like, again, when you quit smoking and then you try to come off. of it yeah come off of it and put yourself on a on a better diet and taking things in like for me i i tell people all the time you really do feel so fantastic when you're on a really good food intake of eating i love salmon i love fruits love vegetables of all those things but dude i love me a wendy spicy chicken combo some fucking hot sauce but you know mental health plays a huge role in this oh of course because if you're in a nervous place if you're in a sad place extremely to the point where it's disorder. Now you could be almost medicating yourself with the food. Oh, of course. Yeah. I mean,

I've known people, even very close people in my life whose drug of choice was food. Yeah. And I think it offers a high like anything else. And I think that's the interesting thing I've seen in the last few years is I think that everyone has their vices. I really do. I feel like everyone has their vices. But I think that we're always so used to seeing those vices being a few certain things. And not a whole wide range spectrum of things like even talking about going to support groups there are support groups for everything like for people who struggle with addictions to a ton of a ton of different things so I think shining a light on those people and those things feeling a little bit more open because I feel like there is still a stigma of saying I have a problem I need help

with this and something as simple as eating because some people cannot control themselves with how much they intend anything that impacts your neurotransmitters the feel good ones the dopamine the serotonin that can lead to a addiction whether you're talking about video games sex gambling all those things and a lot of times like i had a patient the other day a young gentleman who has a true gambling addiction can't stop betting on sports and he wants to stop very passionate very very very driven wants to stop now with him we had to figure out why is he gambling why does he continue to gamble despite the fact that he wants to stop. And when we started figuring it out,

he started seeing on his own, this is his own recollection and understanding of the situation is every time he would feel feelings of anxiety or worry about things that were outside of his control that he really shouldn't be worried about. Like his mom would go to the grocery store in a very safe neighborhood,

driving a very short distance. He would worry about her losing her life. So it was extreme anxiety. And then he would worry about failures at school when he was doing great in school. So it was all of these really heavy, almost irrational he called them anxieties. And then he would have components of OCD as well,

obsessive-compulsive disorder with doing certain compulsions. To quiet them down, when he put a bet, all those things went away. Because his worry shifted to the game, which he could watch, and that's kind of enjoying.

And then he forgot all about the anxieties. The second the game ended, back to the anxiety. How terrible did this make his life? Destroyed his life, which is why he wanted to say. stop. Yeah.

But we could only stop, not by talking about the gambling, but by talking about the things that were, he was trying to hide with the gambling. And at that point, when you have a vice, let's say gambling, I've known some people who've also struggled with that. Is it even about the money? No, it's about in, for example, when we treat gambling addiction, the things that we're really trying to treat, at least from like a pharmacological perspective, medication perspective, is what's driving the gambling.

And in his case, it was the OCD component, the anxiety component. Treating that, we'll treat the gambling component. Well, and it's crazy, too, how sometimes the highs you get from things aren't even from the things that you're doing. Like, for an example, I once heard someone say in a meeting, you never get more high than on the way to go by your shit, which is 100% true of like it's about the ritual, making a phone call, picking something, getting in the car, going to do something. And yeah, man, like, I just feel bad for that, dude.

that's rough i mean yeah a lot of people are struggling so this is why i'm very conflicted with the gambling sites being everywhere it's very triggering from him i also found him groups to attend so it's like a 360 approach it's not just oh yeah here's some medication it's i hope the groups can help them yeah i'm hopeful too we're right in the middle of it yeah like therapy therapy for me was again just for me lifesaver i had never been in a space of just being a hundred percent open honest and i am a person who is very coachable so like If you tell me to do something, like your word is God. Like Dr. Mike says, I got to do this shit.

I'm going to do this shit. So I think for a lot of people from when I've talked to friends, just some people are very difficult to hearing other people's advice. Well, again, it's if they're in truth-seeking mode or they want compassion mode. That goes back right to that. Yeah, exactly. It goes back right to that. Have you seen any health claims or anything like on social media or in the reality star world

that people are doing? And you're like, why are people doing this to their health? Like to be fitter, stronger, faster, sexier. I would say if I've seen anything, sometimes it's hawking products that you know are just like bullshit and I'm 50-50 on that. Like what are the claims that you've seen? Well, you don't have to say the, no, yeah, just just things you see of like take this to lose X amount of weight in 20 days where I've worked, I've been in shape and dieted

my whole life and done this. I'm like, bro, you ain't taking shit. That's going to fucking do that. The only way you're doing that is hard work and dedication. putting it in or if you are it's really unhealthy yeah and and again like i see people who have gotten in shape very fast especially like i know you're in the boxing world with things i grew up in the fight game and seeing that i call bullshit and a lot of these fighters who are out there because i think they are 100% steroid users there is no way you're getting someone who hasn't been a fighter

putting them in a gym and putting them in to fight and actually fight the way some people have Like who's like I've just watched these influencer boxing cards and I think you can watch the kids who are getting in there and really you can tell I've been working and doing things but versus other people who I think are clearly on steroids and I don't I want to know who it is no I will bleep their name no honestly I don't I don't know people's names like I've watched like my friend Chase for example he he fights on the zone and I've watched his fight cards and because the influencer boxing thing has become such a thing and I'm very mixed on it because I grew up in the gym with kids who had nothing. Fighting was the only thing they had. It's the only thing I had, but I don't say I had nothing because I didn't. I had a beautiful family and my father did well for himself. And you watch kids train their entire life fighting hundreds of amateur fights, traveling all over the country, all over the world to hopefully have a professional career that goes somewhere,

to watch someone with a following on social media, get in and just talk shit, do this. that like i get you're trying to make money and i get you trying to sell a fight but like for me it is the love of the sport i would love if it brings more kids to picking up boxing i'm not a ufc fan personally it's just too barbaric but i just think that there's something lost there because i go home to rochester and i still see friends who grew up with that fight with that dream in them and it never went anywhere so it kind of really gets under my skin to see i see what you mean opportunities come for so many people who have never worked for that yeah it's funny because they'll say they worked for the following and from the following they're getting people to buy and they're creating

the business and dude you know what maybe they did i yeah that's the thing is i don't know still to this day i don't know the influencer world well i'll full on bring this on me yeah i'm a doctor yep i have no place on a showtime pay-per-view card yeah right like i did not have an amateur career i did not train boxing legitimately for 10 years like i hit pads with a train once a week. That's not boxing training. Why am I on a pay-per-view showtime maintenance card? You're bringing people in. Well, yeah, but you're saying I don't deserve it. I agree with you. I think whose card were you on? Jake Paul's. Okay. Anderson Silva. That's the whole thing, but the whole Jake Paul thing, right? I think you can go 50-50 with that. There's the part of me that

says he's brilliant business. God bless him for what he's done because the public's been stupid enough to buy it. Insane that he's been able to do that. I think he took his playbook from Connor, who took his playbook from Floyd, who took his playbook from Ali. It's just gone down the line every single way. Make yourself the most hated man, which is going to make yourself, you know, sell all the fights and do things.

So the fact that it's worked as well as it has is insane. I just think even with Jake, he's fought old men who weren't fighters. Well, Tommy's younger than him. Well, for exception of that fight and all the fights he's had leading up and when i say weren't fighters i know people will go crazy they're ufc fighters they would they are older they would kill a fighter in a boxer i should say in a normal setting i just think that from growing up in the gym with nothing but my hands you see how boxers learn to fight learn to punch when i watch how a lot of these guys punch they don't punch the same exact way and there is that part of me that's like

it's it's it's really sad that jake paul is bringing the sport as much as it is because there should be up-and-coming names and fighters, but so much of the business now is social media. It doesn't matter if it's boxing. It doesn't matter if it's film and television. It all goes back to social. These people have numbers. They're going to bring people in. And I think that's hard when you take someone whose only skill set has been be in the

gym every single day and be the best fighter possible. It used to be that's what brought the audience. Yeah. And now it's changed. But that's the audience to blame. Yeah. I mean it's it's it's it's the audience I think it's I think it's like for me when I'm being a prick about it goes everywhere sure it's fuck the fighters yeah fuck the audience fuck everyone

because it's just it's just hard man like I have a friend to this day who's in prison who I grew up with for was in prison for years for attempted murder I was back in on a gun charge and still to this day will will tell someone that when he gets out he's going to be champion of the world which is heartbreaking because the only thing you didn't have a father my father was like his father my family was like his family all he had was at gym so i feel it on such a deeper level of it's not just like fuck these people because they're not fighters it's just like man i've seen what this gives to people in their life who don't have nothing who come from the ghettos and and i completely see that that it's not earned yeah and i but again i think the fun

of it is just like this is like the prick part of me where i'm like i don't i think you keep giving it a negative label it's it's a nostalgic yeah but like i always have to be just be honest about shit of like you know when i i think i was angrier when i was younger when it came down to because i was the kid who who loved to fight loved to fight and had to be mindful of that because i can't i don't you can't see my wrist was broken right here my all these are permanently cracked from just years of growing up fighting i'm i can't fight anymore there's no more training i'm not getting into any anything it is kind of upsetting because i feel like if there was something i would have done well with it would have been this time of this influencer fighting because i have no doubt

my mind i would have fucking destroyed people like so you think you'd be jake paul i would say this um if i was in shape like in shape and really on my game i think it would definitely be interesting i called him out two years ago and that was in a that was my when I was newly sober. Not a good time to be doing anything, but I was just trying to grab on to something and, like, all I've ever had was the boxing. So I immediately went to that.

I think if I was in shape, truly in it for years, no doubt in my mind, I was a nasty fighter. And I had a great chin, never went down. So we're going to have to do a Netflix boxing series with you versus Chase? Here's the thing. Chase is a fucking big man. He's a big man.

That's the one thing I don't. I don't have going. I wish, I hope in his next fight, he sits on his punches a little bit more. So one thing I just feel like I see from the influencer boxing that's so frustrating is, does no one work with these fucking kids on fundamentals? I think it's hard when you're picking up a new sport and you have a vision of what you think you're supposed to do and you've never trained for it. It doesn't come natural.

Like you did it when you were five, six years old, as you said. It's very different. Like even now, now I've been training for two years pretty religiously. And even now, my trainer will have me come up to a bag and say, okay, I want you to double jab stepping in and then give me like a gut punch, a two straight punch, come back, step one step back and then step one step to the right and then come back in with a double jab again. Even doing that, the awkward footwork is really hard to master. Really?

Yeah, like it's an awkward movement because you're just not used to being in that position. I remember when I grew up when I was in a predominantly black gym. and it was we're going to teach the white boy how to dance okay so it was you're throwing hip hop and you're going to bounce around the ring shadow box and get that footwork in and i would say for me like the one thing i've always had still to this day is a phenomenal jab phenomenal jab phenomenal jab terrible right hand okay uh not as strong as anything else but i think it's it's just crazy to me when i see a lot of these people get in the ring no foot movement do not know how to throw a proper punch squared up just fucking lunging and i'm sitting there like well that's

why it's entertainment it's not true sport of boxing yeah no i and they have brought viewership to the traditional sport of boxing too which is great which is which is no doubt but i think that leaves me more scared of okay what's down the line you know what i'm saying because besides davis and garcia like who are real up-and-coming past budget and uh we have plant and uh david benivitas but i think ufc has just completely taken over it has it has for sure there's not a because before the heavyweights were big i mean like Tyson fury um fight was supposed to happen sad that it's not anymore yeah but you know i think it goes into the audience is bloodlust i think that when you go to a boxing match typically people want to see someone get knocked out they want to see that let's be honest

when you have a fucking six foot four 225 pound man fighting another guy like that with no padding in gloves you're gonna see blood yeah you're gonna see someone get knocked out it's just for me no disrespect to the sport the art of boxing of standing toe to toe with another man and giving it 110 percent like there's no hatred there there's no anything it's it's you guys are putting both of yourselves to the test i don't know if you've ever seen um who's your favorite fighter of all time i don't know i don't have an answer to that do you know who arturo goddia of course okay have you watched yes with mickey yeah of course round nine yeah that's the most ridiculous round of all time it is insane uh there's another one with what's his name who got into the motorcycle

accident who uh tall guy his name anyway he gets like knocked down three times then he ends up knocking the guy yeah i know yeah you know what i know what i'm talking about yeah but yeah okay so artur gotty yeah i just i just think like you watch arturo gaudy and that wasn't a guy who was meant to be a world champion that was a guy who had a bigger heart than anyone had ever seen same with mickey ward and that was greatness and you could see them coming together at the end of that and that's what it was about it wasn't about it i think a lot of people misconstrued that with with boxing it's not a when you have to sell a fight that is yeah it's not about a hatred it's not about fuck you it's about like we've worked our entire lives for this and i am meeting my best opponent my dancing partner

and when you watch those three fights i mean i think someone might look at it and think of it as barbaric i look at it and see like it's beautiful these two guys are giving each other everything i mean dude round nine yeah but you could see how someone could see that as barbaric no there's blood everywhere but honestly put yourself in their shoes i can't though because that's where i'm so narrow-minded there where i just i grew up with it but it's normal for you it's normal every single day like that was that was normal and and to sit there and i think every i think boxing is the most racially segregated sport like fucking italians love italian fighters Mexicans love Mexican fighters

and I think you see crowds who love going against each other and when you look at that matchup of Irish versus Italian that brought some serious heat back in the day man but it's interesting even with Jake Paul I have a ton of respect for what he's been able to do for him as a businessman because he's made millions and millions and millions of dollars

and after I did watch his fight with Tommy and I'm happy he wasn't trying to make a excuses trying to say anything he lost it is what it is and like he said it's about coming back and doing things so i think it'll be interesting to see to see that rematch between them yeah my biggest thing that i really like that jake has done is the the buildup of women's boxing bringing in amanda serrano seven-time well and also trying to take care of fighters and and exactly like i think that's the thing like i think i bought into originally the fuck jake paul shit because i was buying into the videos i was watching with no context so that's where i

become that's where i become that's where i become that fucking guy exactly where i'm like fuck that dude yeah and then you give it some time and you sit there and you look at it and you're like oh i see what the kids doing him and his brother like they're smart business men and they're trying to navigate and it doesn't mean you're co-signing everything that they do that you disagree with no and honestly there's there's no hate there at all i just wish that boxing in general had more names to get people excited for and kids in gyms but i think it's cool if someone sees jake and goes i want to pick up a pair of gloves i want to go to a gym i just think it's hard with the stigma of social media today being tied to everything would you let your child box

oh absolutely my kid's going to be in the gym okay so no worries about head injury no i mean here's the thing get head injury walking out slamming your head into the door like not the thing but it is though but it's not the chance of that happening versus getting in a ring everyday sparring when you were a kid do you have cousins friends well i hope i have a friend well you know what i'm saying like you really isolated me did you guys he just really said to me do you have friends did you guys beat the shit out of each other do you guys ever do that shit yeah of course i mean i did taekwondo for nine years okay so like shit like that where i feel like you can get injured anywhere like when i was a kid my dad's thing was kids are little pricks you're gonna deal with a lot

of fucking assholes you're going to know how to defend yourself take care of yourself well there's difference to learning self-defense versus becoming a professional fighter yeah and i would say to that that's where me having a father changed everything for me because none of my friends had that so the only thing they had was boxing and that's what they were going to go and do my dad's thing was you are never doing this for a career i'm not okay i'm not putting you in here for that oh yeah i'm not saying don't teach your kids like taking a boxing class working pads my kids are going straight I mean, to me, I want my son or daughter for that matter in the future to have the same upbringing I had, which was I was in the inner city. I was in the ghettos of Rochester, New York, and that's where we fought.

That's what we did. And my dad told me you are never going to judge anyone based on their skin color or what they have or don't have in their life. But you're going to see how some people have been fucked in life with what they were born into. and, you know, really see where people's lives go because of that. And everything my father always told me always came true. So are you saying if you continue on your current path to success, keep making lots of money, despite your financial success, you will still move into an inner city community to raise your kids? Not move into an inner city?

I wouldn't say that. I would say my kids are going to be aware of it. My kids are going to do sports there, do things because that's what I did. like i wish i had the football photo of me with the baiting street bulldogs being the only white kid in the entire community and i feel like that set me up for a lot my life because in that aspect i was the minority and i had to earn my keep and self-respect from our community of people that i was different from and i went to school at i went to catholic school kindergarten through 12th grade and all white kids fucking hated it hated every day of it every person why

little kids were like little assholes like just like Suburban little pricks Spoiled kids to tell you the truth And truthfully some of the most racist people I ever seen Really? And these are people who are supposed to be God loving And we love everyone this and that But throwing the N word around

About me with my friends when I come to play basketball But if they could throw football on the suburban team If they could draft them, they love them then and it's just i've seen so many shades of racism in my life and i mean that's where even going back to social media shit like i remember at one point i was getting accused of being racist because of something on the circle someone i went at and i was like bro like that's say you fucking hate me say i do not say that about me because that's something that hits so close to home for me with all of my friends i grew up with and it just was so interesting to go to school during

the day and be surrounded by certain type of people and then i go to my dad's car dealership and then at night was in the gym with all of my friends and that's who i was with on the weekends and to see where some of their lives have gone and to tell you the truth there's only one person shout out to my dude lawrence king we love him he's still fighting today who is really done well for themselves and that's because he had a father who was there every single day all of my other friends have falling by the wayside, whether it's, you know, prison, death, being caught up, just doing not the right things. Like, no one has really done well for themselves besides Lawrence. Corrections officer, police officer, still fights, does his thing, and, you know, the best kid you'd ever meet.

Yeah, that's great. Something I've seen people talk about is the idea of having a family in place improves outcomes for children. And that's absolutely true. What has changed is, now our research started to look at non-traditional families, a mom and a mom, a dad and a dad. And what we're seeing is it's really the fact that there's two people, not so much that there was two different people like a mom and a dad, just the fact that you could split roles and someone could be attentive now, verse later, and you could split the attention between a child, that's where the biggest benefit comes from. So I'm hoping that we can further that message out there because right now people are so quick

to be judgmental with certain situations. And as you said, whether it's racism, sexism, against LGBTQ community, some of it's so unwarranted and evil. I just don't understand it. It's from the understanding comes from the fact that they don't understand it, that they're not exposed to it. And figuring that out is a civilization problem. They're going to have to tackle. It's so sad, though, man, because, like, there are so many fucking beautiful people in this world who just have the biggest hearts. And, yeah, they're different from me.

who cares man like i i just don't understand the closed-mindedness like i know what you're saying if they don't understand like that makes sense to me but i don't know i just i love humans like when i walked in today the first thing i'm doing is i'm hugging you like that's i think there's something to being warm and and abrasive and that's why even for me i don't know if kids are going to be a thing for me like i would love to be a father i know i would be the best father in the world because I've had the best example of a mom and a dad who gave us everything, but at this point in my life, I want to be extremely selfish. And I think that it terrifies me to bring a child into this world with the wrong person.

Okay. Because I really want, if I have kids, for them to have something as close to what I had growing up. Like my mom and dad have been together since they were kids, truly in love, respect each other, best friends, any problems they've ever had in their marriage, which we know. know every marriage has them i've never seen um my dad was my best friend my entire life my they moved me out to la when i was 18 checking with me 20 times a day with everything i have going on like they dedicated their life to their children and i think too often you see people having kids when they're not ready and it's not fair interesting i'm curious to see how your perspective changes

over the next five to 10 years yeah i mean here's the thing if it changes i hope it it changes for something that like I wanted to do versus it just happened sure because I think that to me is is terrifying and I don't ever want to be the like my dad would tell me when I was a teenager when I started having sex doing things like the worst thing that could ever happen to you is being a father every other weekend why every oh because you're a divorce yeah well because you don't have your kid and you you won't have your kids and like you know I can't imagine you like if I had a son or daughter like I'm there every fucking day and to imagine someone telling me no you get them three days a week or you know and this schedule no I it's my job to be there

every single day it's my job to discipline them and and and teach them things and laugh with them and that just it really really scares me yeah understand your fear totally yeah are you ready for the reflex round let's do it okay here we go boom what's the healthiest part of your body my dick had to do it first in the camera okay no that's this is beautiful reflexes should be automatic what's one part of your body you would replace my stomach let's check your temperature what's something that got you heated recently fuck why i got i think about this something got me heated recently what is something that got me heated recently oh my fucking my my bow's headphones on the flight over

fucking one of the things stopped working which i've spent first world problems i have spent fucking over what got you heat it dude forget poverty my bo's headphones on my first here's the problem you spent four hundred dollars on bow's headphones these things should work i've had to buy him three times because there's noise cancelling ones i'm done i'm done spending money on the bow's headphones okay so what are you moving to what's the next brand i don't know i was on beats for so long what which ones the apple air max then what are they called Airpod max. Yeah, but the problem with those

those are the things that hang from the ear, right? No, no, no, they're the giant ones. Oh, so that's very aggressive. I don't know how I feel about those. I got to weigh it out. All right, so Bose, fix your stuff. All right, I'm going to give you some names of reality TV shows

and you're going to tell me whether you would win or lose on them. Okay. Survivor. Oh, lose. Immediately, first day, I'm gone. Who wants to be a millionaire? Lose first question, I'm gone. The first question is like, what's the animal

inviting me, Beau? I have like a third-grade education. I'm faking it all the way to the top. Okay. American Idol. Oh my God. I would win. Wow.

No, I would not. I would lose. But I would like to think I would win. Okay. Top chef? Lose. I can't even fucking cook Spaghetti-os. Oh, no.

Hot ones? Oh, I'd win hot ones. I could eat hot shit. I'm about that. Okay. America's got talent? Lose. Lose.

Deadliest catch? you know what i'd win i'd take me out to see okay let me get those fucking crap love that show i'm clipping that give me those crabs um dancing with the stars oh i'd win dancing with the stars i would dedicate everything in my life to fucking destroying that show naked and afraid lose immediately because you can't have sex right no naked and afraid can you have sex there's no rules against sex. Naked and afraid is you're put into like an extreme situation. But like, here's the thing.

If I'm out in the wilderness with another person and you're just like all naked and afraid. But you're allowed to have sex. Are you though? Yeah. Oh, I'd win. But the person has to consent. Well, obvious. Yes, Dr.

Mike. I don't know. I want to make sure that. If you're both naked and afraid, I think you're both looking for companionship. Okay. You never know. America's next top model. Lose.

Okay. Oh, God. Last question. Have you ever almost died? yes how um too much pills okay um too much pills and also there was a point in my life where i was severely suicidal wow severely suicidal and i was very close to not being here anymore well and uh no one would have ever saw that coming the most selfish terrible thing i could have done to my friends and family and uh you know they say god higher power would

you want to call it works in mysterious ways there was someone uh who unexpectedly reached out to me that really saved my life at a time when i needed it that should have never been there for me should have never helped me and that really pulled me back to life to say uh i need to get help i need to uh pick myself up and really tackle some of these issues in my life and i need to stop trying to act like i have everything figured out and that i'm good because it's okay to not be okay So, yeah, I was very close to not being here anymore at a certain point. Well, that's a good takeaway message. Be there for your friends, even when they don't expect it.

Dr. Mike, I fucking love you, buddy. Yeah, I love you too, man. Thank you for coming on. I'm glad you are here today, spreading your wisdom. And we wish you continued success in not just a reality TV space, but in the film space and potentially some other places where you may see Joey soon. Potentially very soon. But, yes, keep taking your wisdom from Netflix reality stars.

It'll serve you very well. Where do you want people who to follow you? Follow me on Instagram, Twitter, the Facebook, all that at Joey Sasso. Watch out for my movie Young Lion of the West, which should be coming sometime in the next six months. Okay.

Young Lion of the West. We will be tuning in. It's a very dark one. You like it. Okay.