The Checkup with Doctor Mike - How Tony Hawk Is Still Skating At 55 Years Old

Episode Date: July 16, 2023

Watch the full video interview here: https://go.doctormikemedia.com/youtube/TonyHawk Follow Tony Hawk here: IG: https://www.instagram.com/tonyhawk/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/tonyhawk Follow Jason Ellis here: IG: https://www.instagram.com/wolfmate/?hl=en Listen To Hawk vs. Wolf here: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HawkvsWolf Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ZcNADIeqlXXCCLm1MJny7?si=6894e70626634751 Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hawk-vs-wolf/id1553164725 IG: https://www.instagram.com/hawkvswolf/?hl=en Executive Producer and Host: Doctor Mike Varshavski Produced by Dan Owens and Sam Bowers Art by Caroline Weigum

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I've been utterly tortured by trying to learn certain tricks. Days and days, weeks, sometimes, sometimes years. That disappointment that you feel when you leave after not doing it, there are definitely times when it means everything. It's like, how could I have not done that? How could they have not have worked? And that is hard. But like he said, better than not doing it.

Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady, and Babe Ruth, the unquestioned goats, or greatest of all time of their respective sports. One more name to be added to that list? Today's guest, Tony Hawk. Never before has a single athlete become so intertwined with the sport they dominated, but in the case of Tony, his enormously high profile is obvious. Not only did he become the winningest skater of all time in various competitions and tournaments, but he nearly invented the sport from his childhood days,

gliding through empty swimming pools in Southern California, to inventing a countless number of new tricks like the 900, to gracing the cover of one of the best-selling video games in history. Tony Hawk's pro skater. But his success on the board has come at extreme cost. Not only was Tony eager to discuss a broken femur he sustained while riding last year, in his 50s, no less, we also discussed lighter encounters with medicine,

like him making enemies with his local urgent care physician as a teenager. And just like in the game, Tony Hawk's American Wasteland, we've also unlocked Jason Ellis, pro skater, MMA fighter, and now co-host of Tony's new podcast, Hawk vs. Wolf. Together, these two skate veterans invited me to their new podcast studio in New York City and open up about the harsh reality of life as professional skaters, especially when it comes to damaging their bodies over and over and over. Okay, so we're obviously at my home base, and I don't mean the studio.

Yeah, we apologize for, I'm not sorry. trying to take over your... Apologize. This is amazing. I get to take over your studio, but technically... Welcome. Welcome to your show. That's actually a good way to do it. Yeah. Thank you for welcoming me to the show. And we're here. For you. This is the checkup podcast.

And you guys are here for the checkup. Okay. So I know my patient to my right has a complaint of a sore throat losing the voice. Yeah, I tend to lose my voice quite a bit. And I've just always written it off to allergies, but I do remember my mom,

through all my years constantly clearing her throat and I realized at some point like, oh, that's me. And your hack is tea? For podcasts, yes. Okay, why podcasts? Not in real life? Because I don't know. I'm not genuinely talking this much.

True. Consistently. I mean, in full disclosure, we're doing four of these today. So I know I'm going to be struggling at some point. And so this is what's helping that temporarily. And what's the tea of choice? This one is just peppermint with a lot, a lot of honey. Mmm, peppermint's the wrong choice

It is? Ha ha ha. Shit. You don't know what you're doing, dude. Why didn't I consult you before? Yeah, so the peppermint is actually irritating. Yep.

He's making it worse, and you keep making it worse over and over again through four shows. Somebody get this guy. That's what we're here. ASAT. What is? I'm right, aren't I? Camabia, lavender.

It's hard not to bring up that I know as much as the doctor. I know what you started, but Cabam meal. No, but. Like some of the foods that we say for people who have acid reflux to not eat or to avoid our acidic foods, alcohol, caffeinated products, but then peppermint. Okay. Specifically peppermint.

My issue is caffeinated product. I just feel like I'm so indebted to caffeine at this point in my life. How would I pull that back? Well, do you know why caffeine is a problem for those who are having acid issues? No. It's because your body secretes more acid when you consume caffeine. So it's a secretion product of drinking caffeine. Now, I'm not saying-

If I just, if I quit caffeine, I would get headaches for sure. Well, that would be a short-term issue. That would go away really quickly. In fact, like, you know, some people build up a tolerance to caffeine so that even when they drink it, they don't get a high from it. If you take like two days off from caffeine, on the third day, you'll get a kick from it. So you lose that tolerance really quickly when it comes to caffeine. All right, I'll try.

And surprisingly, caffeine. the number one studied sports performance enhancing drug, the number one and backed by signs that it actually works. You saw to approve that, though. They did. But I think there's limits.

But yeah, I try to pull back. Yeah, I think there's limits. No way. You can't have too much caffeine in the system. No, when I'm, like, if I'm going to the ramp, I'll make sure that I tone it down. Because I get too hyped. Oh, wow.

And I start to get ahead of myself and I make mistakes. Like, I've definitely experienced that enough times in my life where I was hyped up on coffee or a soda or whatever. And then I can't skate. Oh, wow. Do your kids drink caffeinated products?

Yes, but not like you. Not like me. Well, the reason I bring it up is there was some controversy with Logan Paul's and KSI's Prime Energy drink recently where the FDA apparently is taking a look at them because they have 200 milligrams of caffeine in their energy drink

and it says on the can don't drink if you're under 18 but who's their audience those under 18 and 200 milligrams is six times the amount of caffeine that's in a Coke yeah it's like six cans of Coke

or two Red Bulls wow so kids are getting and then the parents are also a fault here because they're not checking but then also then the kids drink it they get all hyper and then parents yell at them it's this generation's joy Yes.

Yeah. What was jolt? I assume it's a made a product. Jolt was like a soda, but had, I don't know, double or triple the caffeine? Wow. It was before Red Bull, right? Before, where? Yeah, yeah.

It was like late 80s, early 90s, maybe? If it's 200, how many, what'd you say? 200 milligrams, yeah. 200 milligrams. Can that cause like a heart problem with a kid? Oh yeah, for sure. It can create palpitations. You know that for an adult, the recommended max intake of caffeine is 400.

caffeine is 400 milligrams. So just two. Yeah, the two, you're there. And like as a society, we're already over caffeinated and we don't respect sleep. So like, oh, man. And then people are having this at night to game or to get a workout in. And then they have a pre-workout with it. Oh, that's a problem.

Yeah. I don't know. I feel like that stuff is more like a, I enjoy the feeling, but like to wake up and do stuff. Like, I just use the fear. The fear of failure always energizes me. Okay. But waking up and not having coffee, I mean, I guess I could do decaf, but that would be really hard for me. And even decaf has a little bit of caffeine in it.

Just how non-alcoholic beer has a little bit of alcohol in it. All right. Doesn't tea have a lot of caffeine in it? I wouldn't say a lot. More than coffee? No, not more than coffee. Less than coffee. Black tea probably has the most and then green tea second.

But then the other ones, like the chamomiles, lavender, those are. are non-caffeinated, the herbal teas or not. That's why those would be good choices for your throat and paired with honey. Honey is actually a great medication for sore throat and cough. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends honey for kids over the age of two for nighttime cough. It actually works as good as the over-the-counter cough suppressants. A little better for you, right? Yeah. So pretty wild. Bees made it so you know it's good. Okay. All right. So now we cure your throat situation. Am I done?

Yeah, I think I told my meniscus and I'm sh-blood. Oh, okay. At the same time. Wait, what? It happens. I'm a thrill-seeker. I like how you just combine the two as if it's just... What's wrong? But these are different bodywork.

But it did sound like it just rolled off like it was one sentence. It's what's happening right now. Right now? Yeah. Actively bleeding? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I had a red bull the other day, and it made my stomach hurt, and then a little bit of blood, and then a little bit more today. Not as bad as yesterday, but it wasn't good. But I figured hemorrhoids, you know, it happens. That's internal hemorrhoids, right?

Well, it could be external, too, but what I would recommend is that you get that checked out. Oh, yeah? Well, yeah, because you're of the age where you're at a risk for more serious conditions that could potentially cause bleeding. Like what? Like colon cancer. I already got checked the other day for that. The other day. Yeah.

What's the other day? Like six months a year ago. But when did the bleeding start? I've had, I've been bleeding from the butt for years. Did you know this about your friend? No, I left that one out. I knew that he was at risk of that with his activities. It's not from getting, I didn't.

It might be. It's not a fisher. Yeah. Nah, I've had those two. But I've had those two, bed. They hurt. What? Well, yeah, they hurt a lot.

Yeah. And external hemorrhoids hurt. Yeah, I got those too. So how do you know which is the issue right now? Because my outside ones don't hurt and there's a little bit of blood in my stool. Probably should have said it that way the first time. But it just happens from time to time. I feel like I'm on the road.

I'm getting worn out. I'm sleeping as much. And my stomach's upset from something I ate when I first got here because I could You don't respect sleep Yeah, I want to respect it I'm just not really like getting The time to do that, you know That's fair

Like I did comedy last night And when I got to the hotel I went to bed But then I got up early to come here And that's like tough You know, that happens I find it ironic That the lower end of your GI

Is upset And the upper end of his GI is upset You guys are like a true team Right, yeah that happens We compliment each other all right clearly your guys bodies are struggling now but i'm curious in your years being professional skaters what has been the injury that sticks out maybe not even pain wise but in terms of recovery stress mental anguish uh well i broke my femur last year that was definitely the the longest

road to recovery and the most sideways literally sideways because I had a non-union fracture because I got back on my skateboard two soon. And then I had to have it reset, re-aligned about eight months later. And that was in November. Now I'm good to go. But I will say that I did have a concussion that lasted, the effects of it lasted for a couple weeks.

And that was the first time where I truly felt like, oh, this is a problem. And it was way before any studies or what, It was all, you know, back then it was like, oh, you got a concussion. Well, wake him up every two hours. That was the protocol. Those were the days. Yeah, I had one where I was, I was actually editing a video.

I remember, and I remember looking at the screen, like, I don't, I don't even know how to do this. Like, this makes no sense. So complete disconnect. I'm not just, it was more like confusion. Yeah. It was more, it was more that I knew I was foggy. I mean, I knew where I was and what I was doing, but I was foggy enough where I was like, I can't function properly to do this.

Like a cognitive impairment. I had never had one that lingered. Do you still feel the effects of it right now? No. Maybe not that specific inccussion, but in general. No. So you feel sharp, memories good, headaches, nothing like that, visual changes? No.

Wow, okay. So you don't have a real worry of CTE? Well, of course it's always, you know, but I definitely compartmentalize that worry and set it aside because I love what I do so much. And, I mean, I'm very aware of the risks now, obviously, with studies and whatnot. And also, I'm not doing the kind of tricks that are putting me, or that are making me more prone to more concussions. Sure.

I mean, anything can happen. I get it. But he knows what I'm talking about. Yeah, sure. But, so knowing what you know now with this new research of head injuries, do you still take up skateboarding if you were to start today? If I were to start today. If I were to start today and feel,

the... I mean, you're young. Like, I'm making you what age did you start? Yes, yeah. Teen, early teens? Yeah. 10?

So, you're 10 right now. Oh, yeah, yeah. But you know the research. You're still starting. Sure, but I mean, when you're 10 and people are telling you about lifelong issues, you're not listening to that.

You're not taking it seriously. Yeah, I remember my parents saying, I got my first tattoo. I was going to regret it. And they were wrong, you know? So you don't regret it. Not at all. The first one was Metallica, and they were like, you're going to regret that.

I was like, those guys are awesome. That's like my favorite. I still love them. Yeah. Okay, but I'm saying, as you're saying as a 10-year-old, you wouldn't know about the research or you wouldn't care about the ramifications. But you're making the decision for yourself as a 10-year-old. Let's put it this way.

As a 10-year-old, if there were these studies and there was this information, and my parents still allowed me to do it, which they would have because they were just happy to get me out of the house and keep me busy. I would probably be more scared in that moment of my first concussion whereas my first concussion was just confusing and I woke up somewhere else isn't part of your skill set and success

in skateboarding your fearlessness I suppose but I you know it's all calculated risk like I never went at something thinking I hope this works out I did he did for sure yeah but i was always very much like i have all the pieces to this puzzle i just had to put them all together and commit to it um so i was never one to just fly in the face of of risk or or um not give any concern for consequence but i knew that it could happen and you had

your father by your side yeah but you know he was he was my dad was older when i was born he was a child of the depression. It was a whole different set of rules and parenting back then. Was it rubbed some dirt in it mentality? I mean, it wasn't like toughen up, but it was more like, I mean, I remember seeing my dad get

like crazy gash, he did a lot of woodwork and he did crazy gashes, just like, just annoyed by it. And that was the first thing. It was like, oh, that's what happens when you get hurt. It's just annoying. Sure. And so when happened to me, it was like, oh yeah, this is annoying. But there were

concerns because I had a string of injuries early on, I was like 11. Because the pads were terrible, too. Yeah. So the pad, you know, you had pads were mandatory in the skate parks. Oh, really? Yeah. Who checked that? You had to go through a whole, I mean, they were private facilities.

You had to pay to get in. Got it. They're checking to make sure you're wearing all this stuff. That was in my day. So for me, pads were just part of life and you had to do it. But they were terrible. So the first concussion I had, like, the padding, the padding of my helmet was so soft and thin

that the helmet actually cut my... Cut through. Oh, my God. Yeah, cut my brow in addition to the concussion. Jesus. So it was just a disaster. And that really didn't improve until a few years later. Was it the same? Like, when I played soccer, you had to wear shingards

in high school. But then the guys that wanted to be quick wore these tiny shin guards. Oh, wow. Did they do the same? You couldn't really get away with that. I mean, the type of... You get ready. There's people watching you skate. Oh, yeah. It wasn't even that. It was more like the kind of skating we were doing, it was, what I was doing

was empty swimming pools, right? It was Dogtown and Z-Boys era. We were trying to figure out how to get airborne. You can't survive that without pads, really. Like, if you don't know how to slide on your knees, you're not really going to be able to learn all these tricks. Or survive.

Or weather, yeah, or weather hit to the head. But you had different feelings about wrist protectors and risk guards? Well, at some point, I mean, I I wore him when I was a kid, because my dad saw me get hurt, and he's like, okay, you got to, he made me get rid of that helmet. I got to, like, a motocross helmet would be way safer to skate in,

but if you skated with a motocross helmet, you would slam twice as much because you can't see where you're going. And a wrist guard is starting to get into that argument where it's going to cause me to fall off because of the way my hand works. I'm missing those grabs, yeah. So it's like, you know, I don't want to hurt my wrist, but I also want to grab my board, and if my hand slips and then I eat shit

because my hand slipped, then maybe it would have been okay to hurt your wrist. But I remember the liberation of getting rid of wrist cards where it was like, oh, yeah, I can't, you know, and I had to overcome the idea that, well, you might break your wrist. It's worth it to be able to grab

every single part of my board and not have, feel this plastic that's just getting in the way. And you had a strategy when you fell. Oh, yeah. Yeah. What's that? What's the ideal strategy?

Get two knees. So slide on the knees. As quick as possible. It's bailing. There's bailing and then there's slamming. Yeah. Bailing is premeditated. Yeah.

You take off, something goes wrong, kick your board away. Got it. Take a step for impact and then go to your knees. Slamming is when you think everything's cool and then you're on the ground. Oof. Right. You don't know what's going to happen. Those are the chaos.

So basically when you're bailing, you're doing like a form of parkour where you're like trying to absorb the impact. No. Why is that thing? It's not like skateboarding. But, no, but when they're jumping. from high heights. Yeah, and they're doing safety walls and stuff. Yeah, but ours are more just to our knees.

Sure. Are you not a parkour fan? You seem to fendent. No. Why? I don't want to get into it, each to their own, I guess. Okay, fair, but tell me about your worst injury then. I don't, I don't, oh.

First of all, was it skateboarding or was it fighting? Oh, skateboarding easily. Easily? Easily. Fighting is like concussions and I don't know I guess I've I've broken in my hand But not not it's just not

Like I'm a I'm a Terrible fighter Like I was a high level skateboarder And the better I got The more dangerous I was And when I was you know Top 10 top 5 The higher I got the more I got hurt

Because the level was to be in a contest I was trying to do stuff that I could barely do. And if it's in your contest ride, if it wasn't right, I still try to make it. Really? Yeah, so there was just a time there. So would there be things that you would try in a competition

that you know you already failed in practice? Absolutely. Or that you've never maybe made or we've only made a couple times, but that's the game time. I had a theory. And you commit to it. I mean, plenty of tricks have only been done in competition because that's when you have the most incentive.

The crowd, the pressure. And also. Adrenaline. And you are willing to risk. that big injury. Because that is the moment where it's going to matter. Yeah.

Yeah. So it was very easy. It was too easy. Were you making that calculation on your own or do you have a team around you when you do it? No, just me.

I don't know. This is new to me. You don't have friends. Yeah. And they'd be like, you got it. Yeah, that's, that was like you had to,

yeah, if you say, if he's almost making something and I go, dude, no, nobody's ever said that. Really? The worst I'll say is... Oh yeah, we're going to encourage each other to the bitter end. If we're putting it down, like the wheels touch and we're kind of off balance,

like, oh, you got it. Everybody says you got it. I've done stuff where somebody was, I'm like, am I close? And I brought Danny where a friend of mine was like, dude, you got that. And then I made it. And when I got up on the deck, he was like, dude, I thought you had no chance. That was crazy. but I didn't think that was weird

As a human They're having a few times I will say A few times Especially in recent memory Where I have discouraged someone Where I'm like Probably not that

Right because they were nowhere near it Yeah and they were about to throw it down Where it was just like I don't think you have the pieces to that I think that's like There's people that are like I'm gonna drop in And if you know if you've seen them skate

You know they're not gonna make it They're gonna destroy themselves Then you say dude don't do it Okay. But if you're a pro, and you're at a competition, and you're like putting it down, and I'm like, it's a 50-50. Oh, yeah, you got that. If it's a 50, because we also know that it's the mental, like sometimes you can do stuff

where you can't do it, but you just know you've got it and you make it. Wow. I have a funny story. I tried to give, I did finally get to it, but the trick that I broke my leg on was a McTwist. It's something that it's, it is inherently dangerous, but I've done it thousands of times through my career since 1984. for. And I

didn't have enough speed. I tried to adjust for that. I got tangled. I broke my leg. He was there. You're the bad luck charm. What? That's what he just did. He pointed at you. He said, you were there. I'm always there. Yeah, and he was there for the one I made. Thank you. Okay, fair.

For thousands that I know, but also but coming back to that, coming back to that trick was something that I was destined to do. I mean, there was like an almost hate that meant that much to me, but I had to get back to it. I had to conquer it. And when I started really trying it, I was so fixated on getting the grab. I've already, I've kind of, I have this

limitation now of getting my board, getting a hold of it in one position, which is the position I need for this trick because whatever has happened to my body. And I still have that. I'm trying to get through it. But so I'm so fixated on this grab that I don't, I'm not even considering all the other elements that I have to figure out, which is the speed of the spin. and how much I pulled out from the wall. And I started getting a grab and I started thinking I'm getting close. And I asked Reese, who is 10 years old,

who is a maestro skater, amazing. Like, she's a phenom. And she does 540s. She does McTwist. Not the same, but yeah. Not the same, but she's like, oh, are you going to try to do it? I'm like, oh, yeah, I think I'm going to try.

She goes, I think you need to spin faster. Yeah. And I didn't consider that. And I was like, holy shit. Like, Reese is telling me to spin faster. I better spin faster. Yeah. And she was right.

She was right. Yeah. Yeah. And I finally made it. It's a very supportive environment that you guys are describing. It almost doesn't feel competitive. Because I feel like in other sports. Yeah, no, for sure.

I think skating is very unique in that sense that people compete, but it's art against art. And everyone wants to see each other succeed in whatever they're trying to do. And so if you go, like, if you go to a skate. skate park right now, there are children and grown ass men, and they're also getting together, and they're all encouraging, and if someone is trying something that they've never done before,

everyone rallies around that. Wow. Because we know what it feels like to make it, and we want you to feel that too. Like, if you make it, I'm like, here's five that he did at the demo in Utah, I almost cried. Wow. Because I was so happy. So I did one before

in private. Yes. I did a McTwist. I finally got it back. I didn't know that. I did one at this exhibition in Utah a few weeks ago. But the funny thing about that was that I thought, because I had finally made one, that I could just throw it into a run, and it would be a surprise. It would be like, oh, he did make a twist. Oh, and then on to the next one.

And it became my battle very publicly, which I didn't want, but that became the drama, and I made it. But also when he started trying it, I know that his leg's not the same. And I know that that grabs not the same. And when he started trying it, I could tell that his leg is not the same. And it's a different 540. He has to do it higher and it's more potentially dangerous. I have to do it higher because I spin slower.

Yeah. Because he can't ball up as much. He's a little more open now. And I didn't know that he'd already made one. So I was like, dude, and seeing the leg break and seeing him try to heal it over a year and then the bone moving away from his leg and going, dude, have you been skating with me for like six months with a bone not? a bone not attached to you, like, because it was time...

And the femur, it's not like a little bone. I was there in the sad parts. Like, I was there when he would go there and, like, try to skate, and he couldn't skate. And then he'd go behind the ramp, and I'd see him sitting there by himself, looking at his shoes. And I'm like, I ain't going over there. Like, I know, you know, he's going to sort it out by himself. And then he'd come back up and he's dark, you know? Like, we know, like, I'm not going to be like, hey, man, cheer up.

You'll get, like, when anyone's dark, he kind of let him sort it out. Yeah. But I saw that for a year. Like there was times where he fall off and he couldn't get up off the ground to walk to the stairs. And I'm like, I'm not going to say anything, but God, dude, like, what are we doing to each other? And then to see him make it after having a second surgery, it was just like people don't, you know, when you're older and you skate and it's like if you hit your head again and we've hit our head so many times and we also, like he said, we know hitting your head is not healthy and we've got kids. and people that we care about that we would be sad

if we don't know who they are anymore so it's like when I was younger I didn't care, I didn't know we were just maniacs and we were like, you got it now it's like this could be our last ride like every time I go now there's when you hit

there's a different feeling the next day where you're like man maybe I need to get an MRI like I think that like four or five times a year because my body has had so many injuries when I hit things now You know, my knee's like, dude, do you know how many ligaments are left in here? Like, stop hitting me.

And you know it. You know you're burning it. But that's the other, that's the other camaraderie is like, I love this so much that I'm willing to hobble for the rest of my life to still do this. That sums it up. Yeah. I'm willing to do you think part of that camaraderie comes from the fact that you guys were actively building up the sport as well? And you wanted the sport to succeed? I think it's what, no, I think it's what drove me to the sport.

in the first place. Oh, really? Yeah. Because I felt, I felt like an outcast as a kid. I was like a skinny, nerdy kid. I was okay at basketball, baseball, but not excelling. And when I found skating, I just found this band of misfits that were all passionate about this thing.

And yes, they were creating it from the ground up, but it wasn't even that aspect of it was just more like, oh, I can fit in here, even though no one fits in. Yeah. So in 2016, when it became an Olympic sport, how did you guys feel about that? that. Good.

Yeah, good. It was a positive thing. It was, it's kind of like, I never imagined that as a kid, nor did we even really aspire to that. And then as you see it grow and you see it permeate mainstream culture and you see how inclusive it is and how it, it, it overcomes so many boundaries,

socioeconomic, racial, age, gender. And it was like, yeah, this belongs in the Olympics, more than many Olympic sports, so why haven't they figured that out? But it wasn't like, it wasn't like, that's our crowning achievement. It was more like, that's cool.

There's some hardcore out there that were like, we don't need to be in that, and I think that was more of an attitude of we've been neglected our whole careers, so why now? Oh, now you can make money out of it, so you want to use it.

But in the grand scheme, when you get older, it's like, is this going to build more people to skate? and more skate parks. Yeah. So, like, because that's, it saved me and it saved all of it. All of us that skate have a story where skateboarding saved us.

So if you build more skate parks around the whole world and youth today with, you know, phones and all that stuff, if they decide to do that, they're better off. The world is better off if everyone skates. There's a thriving skate scene in Uganda.

Like, that's the state of things now. Well, because the barrier tentry is much lower than like a, sport where you need a ton of equipment football pads helmets all these things sure but also just the the access to or the access to it i mean when we were younger there were very very few skate parks yeah i mean i got lucky that i i grew up near one of the last ones in the u.s there were maybe three at the time wow um so that's a big element to it i know there's there's obviously a whole street skating element and whatnot but when i'm talking about places like uganda and

Ethiopia, street skating is not that accessible. So they have created these facilities and people just thrive and really connect to it and congregate around it. So I think it's amazing. But I've said it before, like when this was all leading up to being included in the Olympics, I felt like they need our cool factor more than we need their validation. Wow. Do you know what I mean?

We already have all these big events. They're already are successful professional skateboarders. Skateboarding is already here to stay. So to have it in the Olympics is like, sure, but that's not necessary. It helps for the global growth, for sure. But without a doubt, the Olympics and the coverage,

they need that youthful cool factor in their summer games like they got with snowboarding in the winter games. So they're taking advantage, but they're also giving something back. We're okay with it. It's a give or take. I don't have the answers. I just know that that's what I see from an outside perspective.

It gives people a chance to compete for medals for their country. Yeah, that's amazing. So that's really cool. Yeah, it's a good representation. You mentioned that skating saved you. What was the moment that you were thinking when you said that? I mean, I didn't have the greatest childhood. Like St. Mettonia, I just felt like a misfit, you know?

And then skateboarding was something that was mom. and nobody could take it from me and I didn't need a coach or I didn't need a I didn't need anything I just needed my skateboard and my imagination and I found people there that had that in common and accepted me for my passion of skateboarding like once you pay your dues you're kind of in and then that was it it was something about you can be by yourself for hours and I don't think it happens to everybody like it could be bikes could be rollerblading I don't care what it is But it bit me. You know, the same with fighting.

Like, you're not a fighter. You got into it. And all of a sudden, you were like, what, you mean? Like, what's up today, coach? Like, and then you do something good and you think about it all day afterwards. You're like, can't believe I learned that.

Skateboarding was the first thing that ever did that to me where I didn't think about my life or anything that it had happened to me that didn't make me feel good about me. It was all I thought about was skating. So it was like in a constant meditation. That's how I can. Yeah, have you guys heard of the concept of flow?

Yeah. Yeah, that's what basically you're describing, where you're constantly trying to achieve something that is achievable, that is going to give you long-lasting passion, that you can practice, that you can be surrounded by those who love you, and that's what it is. But it forces you to be present in the moment, which we're very good at not being in the moment.

Yeah. Whether we're worried about the future with anxiety or upset about something that happened in the past. It's a very lucky tool to get when you're young and nobody's offering. any of those tools, because that one to me was life-saving. Like, not only did it, I became passionate, but I got better at it, and that gave me confidence to go out in the world and succeed,

because I was like, you were terrible. And then, you know, many years later of all that work that I didn't see as work, because I was just enthralled with doing it, I became like an athlete. I was doing things where I was like, okay, that doesn't, you don't have to be a skateboarder, that takes athleticism. And I wasn't an athlete as a kid. So that made me realize I just, I became an athlete just because I loved it.

So that told me, like, if I got into radio, if I got into fighting, just love it. If you love it, you can be good at it. You'll get better eventually. Yeah. Because the human body adapts. Yeah. I remember having that conversation by dad because when I finally, when I gave up Little League, it was in the middle of the season. And my dad had just been appointed the president of the Little League chapter.

Okay. It's so awesome. It feels like your dad was in charge of every sports organization. He was very involved. Okay. It was very involved. But when I, I do remember it through those times, whenever he'd pick me up at the skate park, I said, oh, I think that was my best day ever skating because I kept learning these

little techniques. And he said, you know what? I hear you say that every single time. Almost, almost like dismissing of it. And I said, because it's true. I'm better today than I was yesterday. And all of that fed me. Absolutely, but to talk about the flow state, I remember the feeling of landing my first trick that I ever created, that, like, that moment when I rode away, it was just this kind of silly little trick where I had to reach through my legs, grab my board, spin it around, but no one had done it.

And I was only, I was like halfway up the bowl when I did it. But that feeling was like the dragon that I chased, that I've been chasing ever since. And how long did that feeling stay with you? Still there. Still there. Yeah, for sure. I still get, I mean, even if I learn a trick that already has been done, but I haven't done it, I still feel like that. Wow.

He's doing it the other day. Like in the demo. But you're doing it too, maybe not with skateboarding, but you just told me that you were doing some stand-up comedy, which is... Oh, it's the exact same thing. It's the exact same rules. Do you think it's worse to eat it on stage or to eat it on a board? No, not even close. Which way?

When you eat it on a skateboard, it's bad. Like, the surgery, it depends. If I get hurt, I'm, I've always, that's like one of my, I don't feel it as much as other people. Like, if I hurt myself, I can shrug it off, especially if it's in the heat of a contest or a demo. The adrenalineine's going. I just don't care. But if I have to get surgery, I'm an impatient person. So if I have to like be on the couch and take pain medicine and then get off the pain medicine and then do rehab and then they're like, oh, it's not quite right.

You have to do this or you have to do that. I know that process so well that I fear it. I hate it. And when you bomb in comedy, I'm an emotional guy. So yeah, it does hurt and I get sad for sure. But I wake up in the morning and I don't have to go to hospital. I think I didn't say it was worse. I thought I was going to say it's emotionally it's worse.

Nah, because it's, it's short term. If I sprain, if I, like, hit hard on the ground and just knock the crap out of me, and I'm like, oh, you know, I don't know which bit to grab. Like, you know, I mean, I've just knocked everything off. That's bad. But it's kind of cool. Like afterwards, you know, I'll get up and be like, ah, you know, I'm alright, I'm alright. And he'd be like, you're all right or am I?

Yeah, I'm right. It feels like I'm a warrior, you know? I'm like, yeah, I'll be all right. I get back up and keep going. The comedy thing stings longer, but that's what I'm, like, when you hurt yourself, like really hurt yourself, like a year ago, I hit my head in Utah, and I got knocked out, and I drove my head into my shoulder, and I'm 50, man, like, I fell like 13 feet to the top of my head.

And when I woke up, I was like, I mean, you're all right. I'm like, I'm all right, but I'm like, I'm not. I'm in a fog, you know, and it's going to last a while, and I know it. And then because I'm 50, three months later, if I go like that, I'm like, ah, I'm like, man, 50, this is lasting way longer, and this is like a permanent thing. And it's like, do you want to go to the gym? I can't go to the gym or later on my head three months ago. It's embarrassing. So when someone's like, you suck, I'm like, ooh, that hurts, but it's just like, emotional pain.

It's just not as bad as. This episode is brought to you by Square. You're not just running a restaurant, you're building something big, and Square's there for all of it. Giving your customers more ways to order, whether that's in-person with Square kiosk or online. Instant access to your sales, plus the funding you need to go even bigger. And real-time insights so you know what's working, what's not, and what's next. Because when you're doing big things, your tools should to. Visit square.ca to get started.

It got Willa. It got my daughter. I need to find her From acclaimed director Paul Thomas Anderson You can save that girl On September 26th Experience what is being called The Best Movie of the Year

This is at the end of the line Not for you Leonardo DiCaprio Sean Pan Benicio del Toro Tiana Taylor Chase Infinity Let's go

Here I come One battle after another Only in theater September 26th Experienced in IMAX You came high Wow that's a powerful statement. Emotional pain

is not as bad as physical pain? Okay. If you break my heart, that hurts. Okay. So you're saying bombing on stage doesn't break your heart. It doesn't last as long. Okay. Like if you get, if you bomb, it's like by the morning, by lunchtime the next day, I'm back.

Fair. If you snap your MCL off, oh my goodness. That's a long time. You know what I mean? Like, just like the surgery, MRIs and the and the rehab. And that's heartbreaking. Yeah.

Yeah. So there was emotional. I'd rather someone told me I sucked every night for like three months than that. But you also mentioned pain medications. Yeah. I'm curious if you guys had friends or maybe even had personal experiences with pain medicines with addiction or anything like that. Have you seen that happen in the sport? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah? Any examples come to mind? I mean, I've been addicted to everything. I'm an addict. so I was always I was an alcoholic and into like party drugs

coke and all that stuff but pain killer skateboarding that's what skateboarding always saved me like I would as much as I would want to drink the next day there's a contest like you can't drink before the contest you can drink after it which is not a good idea

but it always same with the painkillers there'd be painkillers when I broke something and then you could go back and ask for more painkillers but if you give me more painkillers yeah I'm never gonna skate again so that just became a like which one do you want more and as much of an addict as i am i always wanted to skateboard more yeah the same like i i prioritized my skating and my skill set so much that it allowed me to not fall into that and it was just more because i was either

proud or obsessive or stubborn that's how i got into smoking weed though because the painkillers i broke my stuff off so much when i was at a high level it was like three times a year year I'd go to the hospital with a broken bone and then they give me the painkillers and then I started to notice that the painkillers made me angry like temper tantrums I threw my controller at a TV and broke the TV and the controller playing post skater I my girlfriend beat me at a motocross race on the TV and I threw the I threw the I threw the and we were laughing and then when she I couldn't get back to pass her I was like I can like through the thing and I was like oh

that's that's pain medicine that's not me and then someone was like when you smoke weed that'll numb it a little bit so then I just would if it was really sore like if I really broke it like compound or something I'll take the pain meds but I would never ask for

a second bottle I would always start to try to just smoke weed and then you get I get he's way better than me and and you can tell by talking to him calculated like I was like I'm just going to try it anyway because I wasn't as good

I hadn't put as much effort it just was like if you muscle it you could get away with it and you can take a shot you'll be alright and then when it got to the highest level I was breaking stuff

getting knocked out getting knocked out and waking up with a broken bone it started to affect I was like getting scared like when I started to be in contest and I'd be like you know what I really don't want to do today

is wake up yeah with a shattered hand you know like this is starting to freak me out so it it slowed me down on the on the being crazy and just going for a thing in the end it kind of like made me timid i think does skateboarding have any negative mental health implications do you ever get into dark times when you're not winning or you're injured yeah but they're not as they're not as dark as what to me i don't know about him but they're not as dark as they would have been if i didn't skate yeah i mean i've been I've been utterly tortured by trying to learn certain tricks where days and days, weeks, sometimes, sometimes years.

900. Yeah, I mean, that disappointment that you feel when you leave after not doing it, you do kind of get used to it, but it never goes away. It's never just like, nah. And there are definitely times when it means everything. It's like, how could I have not done that? that have not have worked, and that is hard. But like he said, better than not doing it. It's funny, when skateboarders can't make something

and they're really heartbroken about it, I feel like only skateboarders can understand that pain because I've had wives and girlfriends that are like, like, it'll be okay, and I'm like, it won't be. Yeah. And they're like, it's just a skateboard trick, and I'm like, it's not. It's everything, you know?

If I can't make it, I'm a failure. But, like, I had to have a deep discussion with my wife about getting back to McTwist, the trick that I got hurt on, where, you know, she would, she would like to discourage me from doing that, but we had to come to some middle ground where it's like, look, I have to do this. It doesn't mean I'm going to keep doing it going forward, but I have to get back to this and know that I'm capable of it. Was the concern physical or medical? Sure.

Physical. Physical, physical, that you would hurt yourself. in that way. But it wasn't that you were coming home when you weren't doing it and you were angry or sad. No. No, no, no. The concern is that, because she knows that, you know, I broke my leg doing that trick.

Yeah. But my hack for the whole thing was to have her there when I did it because I knew I wouldn't get hurt in front of her. Oh, interesting. Why is that? Why is that? Yeah. Because she'd be so mad at me. This whole injury thing,

I was a rant. Like, when he got out of hospital, he was like, I want to do a podcast to talk about it. So we set up in his house and she was there with this face. I know her really well too. And I love her. I respect her opinion of everything. And her face, she didn't say anything to me. Her face that we were there doing a podcast was like, you guys aren't talking about like trying to do that again, right? And I'm like, I'm not even, I didn't even do it. She's very pragmatic. It's not, it's not like, it's not like that she's a buzzkill. She's just...

No, she made... She had common sense. She's being rationality. Yeah. Yeah. And I was in a state of frenzy, like, I got to get back to this. I got to tell everyone I'm okay.

I should not have been... That should not have been my approach. And so I should have heated her warnings more, for sure. Was therapy or sports psychology ever something part of your guy's arsenal? Not in their early days. We had no support. Really? And you have to understand.

Like, skateboarding was the Wild West. Yeah. The tricks that we... we were doing, the flips and things like that, there was no, there was no training ground, there were no coaches, there was no foam pits or, you know, or safety mats. There were pools. There were pools. And you knocked your teeth out, trying to figure this stuff out.

So when those things came into play, it was like, what is all this? How, we never imagined anything like this, you know, that a kid can learn to do a five, 40, 7, 20, 900, 1080, whatever, and learn it safely. Yeah, I was jealous. Yeah, it was more of a jealous of people that learned 540s into a resi pit. I was like, that's not fair. But also, even the mental health aspect, like, I went through really difficult times being considered the number one competitor for so many years and consistently where it took

this toll on me that I just, it sucked all the fun out of it for me. I really was depressed. And I was expected to go back. And Rodney Moran just did this talk. Actually, you could look it up. But he has this whole thing about there was no second, third, or fourth. All right. For us.

Because for us, for us, that was losing. Yeah. Because of the expectation. Like, he's not wrong. But it became that, that projected expectation on us, we took it to heart. So we would both be, like, crushed. if, and, you know, we would be crushed if we performed well, but only got second, where that should be a happy day for anybody.

And it really just, like, it was so strange because I'm living the dream, but it was a nightmare. So what advice would you give back to yourself in that moment? Take a step back and enjoy the skating. And don't worry about your rankings. And don't worry about every, I mean, it was. It was, it was, you had to accumulate points. Sure. Through the series. So if you're not, if you're going to miss an event, good luck trying to keep yourself in those rankings. So it was like every weekend or other weekend is this

high intense pressure situation. And then on to the next one. Yeah, it's like this idea of irrational thought that all humans do. It's called cognitive distortions where we label ourselves things that are not really accurate. So, for example, if you constantly get first place of tournaments and then you get third, you're like, I'm a failure. But rationally speaking, that's not true. That's not true. But there was a lot of noise and there was a lot of talk

that was that. Really? Oh, yeah. I remember thinking my attitude was not up to par because I'd be happy if I got third. And I remember thinking, that's the loser's mentality. like if you're like him where you like but if if i got third the general discussion was he lost oh yeah is that because of your abilities and what you could accomplish or no it just becomes you it's not even that it's just more that you've reached this level and this expectation

yeah that's what it's and there nothing else is acceptable in the eyes of the fans or the or your sponsors. So you think it was outside influence more than what you were feeling? It was both. Man, the judges were unfair to him. Because he was so good if he didn't beat him every contest, like if anybody else in the contest did his shitty ride, they would have won.

But it was because of if he didn't do some trick at the end that no one's done every contest. Yeah, I had to, I mean, at some point I had to hide new tricks from the judges. No way. So there was an element of surprise so that they wouldn't give it to him. we could boost it. But beyond all that, it was more that it was just, it was so unfortunate to be living that and me like, I don't even enjoy doing this. And the reason I ever got into this is because I love it so much. So I actually pulled away from competition like cold turkey.

To bring back the joy. To bring back the joy. And that was my most creative time of my life in terms of figuring out new tricks and enjoying what I was doing and allowing myself. to fall and fail more and it kind of restructured my style but then I came back to competing with a way more cavalier attitude where I was like I don't care what happens and I did well and I didn't do well but it was way more enjoyable wow so being less afraid to fail because you were chill about it allowed you to fail less fail less yeah I did actually yeah yeah yeah And be way more creative, or it was like, whoa, what was that trick? Wow.

Which made him even heavier because it was, he'd already ruled for two decades. And then he's got more. And I'm like, wait, really? Come on, dude. He was just unlocking his sports psychology. The irony is that when I did come back to competing, that's when skating started to take a dive. So it was kind of like, wait, what happened? Turn the lights back on.

I'm good at this again. Okay. Okay. And then I'm curious, so like obviously we talked about all these injuries and the pain that you experienced both mental and physical. What were the experiences like with the health care system? Like I know you told me you would go to an urgent care and they said, we never want to see you here again. Yeah. I went to an urgent care for stitches. And I had gotten so many stitches from the same doctor because that was my default. I knew I could just swoop in. And he said, there's no more skin left on your shin for me to pull over, so don't come back here. again um but my experience i think i think my experience was more that i i learned to sort of have

any recommendations of timelines from doctors okay because i knew they had to be they had to air on the side of being conservative yeah right so they're like you're going to be out for three months i was like okay i'm about for a month and a half he's right yeah a lot yeah and and and but then sometimes your bones didn't he heal well. Well, when I was in 54, yes, that's what happened. But in the earlier days, I did always expedite those timelines because getting what I learned kind of through my own process is getting back to it sooner and being active, it encouraged the healing more. Which is true. I hope it's true. No, no, it is true. So like we've updated our guidelines where

before if someone had a low back strain or sciatica, we would say, oh, you should rest, bed rest. But now we say, no, no, bed rest is not ideal, makes it worse, especially past like a day or two. You spray an ankle these days. It's right away, get it moving as fast as possible, maybe not weight bearing, but at least doing the alphabet and all this mobility stuff. Because we see that if you lock in without movement, you don't heal as well. Less circulation, less blood flow, less range of motion. Then it's longer to rehab.

So that makes sense. You're kind of ahead of the time. I broke my elbow in 98, and it was so stiff, and then I finally just kind of went on my own, went back to skating, even though I didn't have the mobility of it, but getting that back, it finally, I'll never forget, feeling that click of it straightening again, because I skate it. Wow. So you broke some scar tissue or a bone spur or something that was there? Yeah, I broke through something, but it was because I was being in motion. There also used to be a lot of times where they would tell you that you're never going to skate again. That used to happen.

Yeah. My shoulder came out a lot. And I were like, you're never going to skate again. Wow. And I was like in my 20s. And did you say BS or were you like crying? I cried because I thought he was telling the truth. And then I would go skate anyway because I, you can't stop.

Like I would just go anyway and be like, well, I'll see what I can do with one arm. And then eventually the arm. I tried to, there was a few times where I lifted weights because my theory was if I got a little more stronger than it would hold it in better. And there were times there were, it came out a lot. You know, and I was like, okay, maybe he was right because it would come out.

And if I just went like that, it would come out. And I'm like, that's bad. And I used to put it back in. Like I started to get used to how to put it back in. And there were a few errors where, you know, that shoulder just, you had to be had to watch it. But if it didn't come out for a year or two, I'd forget that I even had that injury

that they told me I could never skate again. Did the doctor ever tell you you will never skate again? No. They were always optimistic for you. Yeah, I guess I never had that sort of injury where it was like, I don't think it's going to happen. But also, I'm so surrounded by people that live with these injuries that, for instance, we were doing a show in New Jersey.

Super windy. It was outdoor. And the wind caught my board on my way in and flipped it. And I didn't realize it. And it made me just shoulder block into the flat from the top. And I felt like it was dislocated, but it was still there. And we're in the middle of a show. So I'm going back up the ramp.

And then Dennis McCoy, who's this awesome BMX rider. Who's broken everything. you separated your shoulder. What does that mean? He's like, oh, that's, you're, that's, you see it hanging down right here. He goes, he goes, oh, yeah, I did that. Yeah, I go, what does that mean? He goes, not nothing.

Like, it'll heal. He'll tell you how long it'll take. Yeah, and he told me, yeah. And so I went for, we were in the beginning of a six-week tour. I spent the next four weeks not using this arm during shows. Wow. And then by the end of the tour, I had my mobility and my strength back. but now my shoulder drops.

And you have some limited neck mobility, I see. Yeah, but that just, I just accept that. Is that from a specific injury? No, it's just from just life. We call it a chicken neck. It's like the opposite of a Tex-neck. It's the opposite of a techs neck. It's like one of these.

Yeah, it's like a whip, a car crash, the whiplash effect, yeah, all the time. I mean. Yeah, but imagine, imagine hundreds of, I can't imagine. But I think it's more that if this is the summation of all these years of skating and all the joy it's brought me and, you know,

unimaginable success that I have a stiff neck. Yeah. Cool. Small price to pay. Yeah. My final question is going to be about the video game.

Were you involved in making the ratings for yourself in the video game? The ratings? Oh, you mean like the sales? The stats. I did not. Not really, but they were pretty... Because, right, I feel like he biased there, right?

No, I think if... If you look at my stats, like, my flip is... It's honest. Yeah, because it shows... Yeah, I mean, I got good spin, I got good airtime. Yeah. Because he does. In the real world, Eric Coston is not going to go in the air as good as Tony Hawk.

Tony Hawk flipping under a rail. Yeah, so if you're looking at Eric Kosson's, like, flip stats, his are up here. But did you have influence over it? I actually didn't. He didn't. No. How much? Neversoft chose all those initial stats.

What about the game itself? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Really? Like what aspect to them? Tricks, locations. Oh, really? All the characters, skaters in it, music. I think that's why it's so successful.

Because I was around before it came out, and he was on it every day. And then if he found something, or if somebody, one of us played with him that found something, he would call them immediately and go, hey, there's this thing that you should change because it does this or it'd be better if it did that. Yeah. And just, I was like, man, I don't think everybody is that in on their game. Definitely not. You're like beta testing it.

As real for skateboarders as possible. But also, I played video games my whole life. So I had that history and that experience. Do you still play? Some. I mean, I'm more like, like, you know, I'll race my daughter in Mario Carts stuff like that. I don't get deep into any other games, really, besides ours when we're developing them.

But you also have to understand that it was so renegade. Home consoles had just come into play when we developed our game. There were no skate games from, I don't know, the last one had been created for Commodore 64. So there were no home skate games at all. There was no bar that we were trying to reach in terms of a standard. And we had free reign because it hadn't been done, and no one had great hopes for it.

So it was great in the sense that I got to have all this input with the music and with location stuff because it was just kind of like, I don't know, we don't know, whatever it is, whatever it's cool. And then all I cared about was that a skater would see it and go, that game is legit. Right. And you've had some pretty fortunate. timing. You release the game right when the consoles are coming in people's homes.

You released a VCR tape when everyone got VCRs in their home. Oh, yeah, with that's some really good timing to create a tape with your face on the cover. Save my home video. Right? And then that 900 around that time wasn't a bad move. Yep. In X games. I mean, definitely there's there's some false narrative that I was methodically planning all that. I wish that I have that much foresight. But I got lucky that we were in the final

stages of making the game and they were about to submit it to the console manufacturers. Once you do that, you can't change it unless they say this has to change. And when that happened, when I did 900, I had to try to get them to include it in the game and they're like,

we're at the last stages, but let's get it. Yeah. It was a good idea. It was a very good idea. That made all of us cool. I mean, he was a character, one of them. I was a hidden character, but still, I remember. Because all my other pro-s skateboarder buddies, because it was so hard.

If you're in the game, you're at the elite of elite. And I was good, but I'm not elite. And he put me in as a hidden character, and I'm friends with a lot of people that are arguably elite who aren't in it. And then we all sat around in one of their houses while I'm the character. And I was like, this is bullshit. I'm like, no, it's awesome. This is perks.

Yeah, this makes perfect sense. You guys don't get it. But him doing the 900 and all that, the game and making more skateboarders. My one was, if normal people asked me what I did for a living and I said that I was a pro skateboarder, people would say, oh, that's a job. And then when he did that, when people would ask me on the plane what I do, they'd be like, oh, wow, that's cool. Do you know Tony Hawk? Because it's a job. It's a real job.

You are not faking it. you're not lying because i think a lot of people thought that i was making it up it is a real job well the the culture of it when it first started wasn't that it was a job right it was a it was a culture lifestyle street focus so that makes sense but that's where that's where all the mentality of uh keep going if it hurts you're fine because his peers it's punk like they were they were scared at first time i came to america some of the older guy the the salber and melba you probably We don't know who they are, but they're legends, and they rode, like, big concrete things, and they were just all about, you know, fuck everybody.

They weren't nice to Groms and stuff. They were mean to, like, little kids. Yeah, they were not nurturing. Yeah. So, but if you grew up in that, like, boy, did you pay some dues? Like, I remember being, you know, 20 and skating a pool, and two of them showed up. And I'm a big guy. And I was like, oh, this Elbe brothers, like, holy crap.

Like, please don't hurt me. Like, I remember Jay Adams saying, hey, man, I'm like, really? You're not going to be mean? Like, I was so thrilled that they were being nice to me because I expected them to be like, what's up with your pat? You got brand new shoes on, douche. That did exist. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. But I showed up late, but just no. I was there for the height of all that. He was there doing tricks. I got bullied. Yeah, the most, because he was doing something that skateboarders weren't doing. Yeah. It was older guys doing grinds and being badass is drinking a beer after.

Afterwards, he's way underage, doesn't drink, and it's like, I want to learn new tricks. Yeah, they call me a circus act. Yeah, which is so, because a circus act now is what skateboarding is, progression. And he was like one of the, it was, it's, him and Rodney are so the same. They ride different stuff, but their angle on skateboarding saved us. Because how many, I love pool grinds. I'm one of those guys that does big fundamentals. That's what I like.

but the X-games with a bunch of big fundamentals would be pretty boring. Like the progression now, like a girl did a 7-20 the other day. People are just doing stuff now. So where is skateboarding going to be in 50 years? Who knows? I mean, what's your prediction?

I think it will be on par with a lot of mainstream sports in terms of kids choosing to do it as readily as they choose to play soccer or to play baseball or to play baseball or a basketball or whatever it is and divide their time with it too. I think that's been the shift in the last 20 plus years

is that if you skated when we were kids, you only skated. You were defined as a skater. You were devoted to be skating and only skaters appreciated what you did. Nowadays, you skate and... Multi-sport, do this and... And that's healthier.

And that's healthier, yes. Skateboarding as a whole is so much. much more accepting now than it's ever been yeah like everybody all walks all styles it used to be a little bit more I don't like his style so I don't like that person yeah and now everybody does like 80s tricks were not cool in 2000 but now people like girl everybody who's cool does tricks from 1981 and people are like that is a sick eggplant and I remember because I took a gap I went to like radio and then I come back and it's like people do tricks from 1985 and the crowd goes, I'm like, wait, I can, I can do those still. Am I

okay? And it's like, hell yeah, you're okay. I'm like, I am awesome. So it's way more accepting of everything. Well, so then society owes you a huge thank you for making this a reality and growing it. So, and obviously thank you for both of your time and sharing your experiences. Cheers to skateboarding for the next 50 years. Hell yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks guys.