The Checkup with Doctor Mike - KallMeKris Opens Up About Her Eating Disorder, OCD, & Depression

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

Watch the full video interview here: https://go.doctormikemedia.com/youtube/KlipC Kris Collins, otherwise known as KallMeKris, is a prolific creator who has quickly risen from being a hair stylist in Canada to one of the most followed comedians on social media. Her audience of nearly 50 million TikTok followers and 10 million YouTube subscribers has fallen in love with her characters and skits. While her content may be funny, she's had to battle some very serious issues throughout her life, ranging from eating disorders to depression. I was very grateful Kris took to the time to come on the show and discuss this at length. FOLLOW KRIS: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiciOsypkXcqSFqSPd-NRVA TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@kallmekris?lang=en IG: https://www.instagram.com/kriscollins/?hl=en Executive Producer and Host: Dr. Mike Varshavski Produced by Dan Owens and Sam Bowers Art by Caroline Weigum CONTACT: [e-mail]

Anybody out there that's struggling with it or knows somebody struggling with it. It is worth it to like research about it because there's such a huge stigmatism around eating disorders in general that it's just image. And it is so not like that's like that's the biggest misconception. I'd say in understanding it at least. This is call me Chris and you can call her Chris or rather Christina Collins, a Canadian hairstylist. Well, she was a hairstylist until a little app called TikTok came. along and changed her life forever. Chris is one of the most prolific creators on the internet, having amassed nearly 50 million

followers on TikTok alone, creating hilarious skits with her ever-growing roster of characters. Riley. Isn't he pretty? You may have also seen her on YouTube where she's fast approaching 10 million subs, doing things like reacting to five-minute crafts videos or even trying the craft herself. Am I birdie now? Needless to say, the audience has fallen in love with her sense of humor and the way she makes them feel. But recently, Chris has been more open with her audience about some difficult things going on in her personal life.

Because I have struggled with my mental health for a very long time. It's been rough lately. Chris and I have known each other for over a year now. So I asked if she would be interested in coming on my show to discuss her health journey in detail. Chris said yes, and what followed was an intimate and powerful discussion about about some difficult topics. Content warning. The following interview contains discussion of depression,

suicide, and eating disorders. If that sounds like something you're comfortable with, join me now on the checkup with Dr. Mike as we not only call her Chris, but see Chris for the inspiring, three-dimensional person she really is. You've been through a lot medically. Yeah.

And non-medically. Yeah. Is that fair to say? In life, for sure. Yeah. Would you say you're an old soul? Yeah, I've been told that by every person that comes across me.

Every. Pretty much. Why do they say that? I don't know. I guess I'm just really mature, which is, I'm not humor-wise, but. Yeah, I was going to say, for someone who does voices for a living and character play and silly character play. Yes. I think that's because the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the off camera is very, you know, controlled and not as flamboyne as I am on camera.

Why? I think that's, it's a form of, like, escapism for me. Oh, that's good. Why, why do you not allow your inner child to enjoy the outside world? I don't know. I don't know. I've always struggled with that, though. I don't know.

I, like, it's, it's just putting on masks, you know. And I've just learned that from being young that, that's easier to do than the alternative. What's the alternative? Showing my true emotions. Like laughing and being silly? Yeah, I guess. And I guess it all stems from like having mental health issues and that kind of thing. And in what I mean, like, if I'm depressed, it's hard to be that person I'm supposed to be on camera in real life.

Like that's my job. So I'm expected to do that on camera. So it's the other way. I guess it's hard to be the person I am on camera in real life sometimes. That's what I'm trying to say. But the person you, oh, yeah, but the person you are being on camera is sometimes the act. then the person you're being in real life is really you. For sure.

Oh, so you really are the mature soul. Then for the camera, you put on an act. Yeah. I mean, not necessarily an act, but it's just like... You're performing. Yeah. Yeah, essentially. You've become, or I guess we're born, very accident prone.

Take me through that. Yeah. I don't know. I was just reckless as a child. I like to do a lot of things, whether it was like climbing trees, going really fast downhills on skateboards or bikes. And it was just a daredevil, if you will. I don't really know.

I just have always been like that or like parkour as a kid. I think I started it. I think I did. You started parkour? I tried to, I think. I was doing it before I even knew it was the thing. Was this a rebellion against parentals or? Probably a little bit.

Okay. Yeah. Because my mom was very protective of me, me and my older sister because we were the first two. And the other ones, she was just like left to their own devices and like we took care of them. but I was just like, screw that. I'm going to go, you know, climb a 50-foot tree

and wave at her from the top of it. She had a heart attack is fun. But then you get a reaction out of her, too. So I was a little bit of, in a tension, you know. Attention what? We can pee-whoop it. Attention whore, if you will. But in a bad way.

Why in a bad way? Like, I like to get big reactions out of them, whether it was a laugh or whether it was like, oh, my gosh. like it was just like I didn't realize I was performing for my parents before I knew it was performing but that's that's kind of what it was it it is almost reminds me of when stevo was sitting here and he was saying that he was doing the same thing he was an attention horror he loved it he would record himself on VHS back in the day yes it wasn't from

other people it was just from my parents like I don't I it's funny because I never like I never looked at movies or TV or anything like that and wanted to be that like I've never actually wanted to be on camera or have that kind of attention. Really? I always wanted anonymity. But I just, when I was younger, I just kind of wanted that attention for my parents because my sister is just good at everything, Jessica, my older sister, whether it's sports, academics, all that.

So I just felt like I was like just a lower tier. So I had to, like, shock and awe of them in some way. And that was in humor or doing these, like, crazy stunts all the time. Wait, so in addition to the crazy stunts, you were also doing like some kind of humor stuff as well? Yeah, just in general. Like, I was just always a smart ass and, like, trying to make them laugh, whether it was, like, a comeback or something like that.

Or even if I was getting in trouble, like, I would find ways to make them laugh, which kind of, like, I can't believe you did this, Christina Lee, Hallowell Collins. Yeah, exactly. That's, yes. And then I would just, like, come back with a joke and make them laugh. And that gave me less punishment. Yeah, exactly. So you manipulated the system from an early age.

Exactly, yes. Very smart. Yeah. Did you have the characters already in full effect when you were younger? Not the specific ones I had, but I was absolutely the kid that had imaginary friends, like full-fledged. Like, I would talk to them and like by myself or like when I lived in the corner as a kid, which I don't know if you have that punishment, but stand in the corner, right?

Well, in Russian culture, it's physical plus the corner? Like the corner is where you go to recover. Yes, that is the same here. I got all the spanks out of all the kids. I mean, they may have gotten a little bit, but I got the wooden spoon, the whole, whole barrage. And then I'd go in the corner, but then I wasn't allowed to bring, like, my dolls or toys or anything, because I would be very entertained. I loved the corner.

The corner was great. And so I'd play with my fingers, and I would talk to myself like this. And my mom could attest to that, and she would get so annoyed. And then if she's like, you can't have, I would have to have my hands beside myself. Because she hated that I entertained myself. I was so good on my own. Wow. Yeah.

What imaginary friends did you have? I don't remember names, but they were just like other kids. I sound insane. I might be schizophrenic. What do you mean? You're allowed imaginary friends as a kid. I used to have a T-shirt that I wore when I was like 13 that said I have lots of friends. You just can't see them.

Yeah, right? It was from Hot Topic. Nice. I like Top Topic, but I wasn't allowed to shop there. I wasn't either. I went secretly. Oh, you broke the rule. No, I, um, yeah, I was, now I'm thinking maybe I saw ghosts, but.

You saw ghosts? No, I'm just thinking my imaginary friends were like so, so real to me. They felt like ghosts. Yeah. And well, you would talk to them about real life stuff or you would create imaginary situations? I just like, you know when you're playing pretend? I don't know. And you're just like, oh, okay, that's my whole life.

So, so right now we're in a castle in like a room and we're being held hostage. And like, I would just like create these scenarios in my head. And then I would just play them out with my imaginary friends. Wow. While these days Chris might spend many of her afternoons inside playing funny characters on TikTok, she isn't exactly a homebody. In fact, Chris is an adventurer and an injury-prone one at that, having broken countless bones falling out of moving golf carts, or trying to marry Poppins her way off her roof holding onto a canopy of umbrellas. So given all the injuries she sustained, I asked her which one was the most painful.

My clavicle was awful. That was playing soccer. I was in full sprint. I was a left winger. So I would sprint up and down the field. I was sprinting. And then the other winger was sprinting with me to get the ball. And she tripped me. Trish. And I just, I didn't have time to put my hands out because I was running so fast. And she tripped me. So I just landed right on it and went and I still have like a bump. But my coach at the time too didn't like believe it was. bad so he like went to grab my hand and pulled me up and I think he made it worse and I've never screamed so loud in my life I don't think and I had to and I had to sit in the hospital for so long thanks Canadian healthcare for so long I think I was sitting for like three hours with this and it was just like I don't know why does this hurt so bad like I mean the brachial plexus is there yeah um did you have any nerve weakness in the hand after that because some people like I've had patients that were involved in auto accidents that would get a clavicular fracture and then they would have like a wrist drop because they would lose the motor

function. No, I haven't had that. It wasn't a clean break. So maybe that's why it was what, I guess so just a fracture? Fracture means break. Break, yeah. So you're saying it wasn't fully displaced maybe? Yeah, it wasn't completely displaced. Yeah, displaced. So maybe that's why. Yeah. But still, still the most painful. Well, yeah, especially if someone's pulling on you. Yeah. My ankle was pretty bad too, but that was probably the worst. And that happened ankle was basketball going up and landing on it wrong that happens to me a lot I got mad hops I went so high did you dunk yeah you could dunk oh if I jumped off somebody's shoulders yeah if you jumped off with their little umbrella you could dunk I'm sure I still break my ankle

the umbrella doesn't work so Chris is no stranger to pain in medical emergencies which means she's also no stranger to the Canadian health care system if you watch any of my videos you know I have a ton of critiques of the American healthcare system, which is why I was so curious to hear how things have gone for Chris in the Great White North. A couple of years ago, Chris says she was suffering from a kidney infection, and the Canadian healthcare system left her with more questions than answers. I went in and I was having the worst pain in my life. I thought I might have like meningitis or something because it was the pain was so bad. And they were debating. You had a headache? Yeah, fever or whatever. Whatever. And I was assuming they were going to do a spinal tap or

something but anyway the pain was so bad but they uh didn't they did imaging or whatever they needed to do and then um they gave me some pain meds and they sent me home and said come back tomorrow if it gets any worse and they didn't give me any sort of like diagnosis for going home or anything like that so like this is the ER this is ER so the ER sends you home and says come back yeah yeah that it's not an emergent yeah or why did they why did they feel like you weren't emergent or that the ER was so busy? Do they give you? No, there was no, there was no reasoning. I mean, I was by myself too, so there was nobody to vet for me, which maybe was an issue because I was in a lot of pain and I wasn't in any place to argue, I guess. So I don't know, doctor tells you

something. You're just, you just do it. You're like, well, I wanted people to empower themselves to ask the questions. For sure. So like, don't just do that. No. That happens to you. Because even if you were sent home and said to return, they should at least tell you what the preliminary diagnosis is, at least a presumptive diagnosis, what the plan is going to be, and then what you should be on the lookout for? What could go wrong that you would need to come back before it's at time? Right, right, yeah. And they didn't give you that. And it was a kidney infection at the end of the end of the day, which I'm assuming can get bad if I don't treat it. Very bad. And I didn't get the antibiotics. Go into sepsis. That's exactly. Low blood pressure, septic shock dead. Boom.

Yeah, that's, and of course, I'm Googling shit. And so it was just like, okay. And then I went back the next day and they're like, oh, yeah, you need antibiotics. And they gave me antibiotics through IV. And then they sent me home to go get some from my other doctor or like to go to. Yeah, the pharmacy. So I was like, and that was the most recent one. But yeah.

But like all my broken bones, like especially my clavicle, it was like almost four hours I was waiting there. Screaming in pain. Like it was brutal. And like people with like colds are going in before me. That's weird. It's very messy. Why is that happening in the system? Well, anybody goes in for anything because it's, I mean, if you have insurance and that kind of thing, it's free, basically. But doesn't everyone have insurance? Not necessarily.

I thought like it's nationalized and everyone has insurance. If you don't have insurance, it like, it might cost a fee. And it's very small. It's very small. I don't know what the, I don't, I don't know. I don't want to speak on it. How do you get insurance in Canada? You have to apply for something? You just buy it. like regular insurance like so you have to pay for your health insurance so then why do they say unless you're at a job where you have health insurance like this sounds very similar yeah i know i know that's why it's kind of like everybody just assumes because you're canadian you can go to the hospital and it's free like costs nothing but well first of all you're paying health insurance right

monthly yes yes and then you said you also received the bill from your ear at the time i wasn't the time i wasn't and i'm just self-employed so again very small but like what's very small like hundreds of dollars like yeah 100 bucks maybe if that okay so it's uh i mean that's way more reasonable than what bills yeah for sure people here it's like tylonol 50 dollars 100 yeah yeah no i'm terrified i mean i i you know sliced my hand here with cutting an avocado and i had to pay like a couple grand to get stitches in my hand here because i went to a fancy schmancy plastic surgeon which that's a good idea for the hand yeah but it's like yeah it's like yeah it's worth it to have. And again, I was stupid and didn't have like travelers insurance.

And when you need to see a specialist, is that a long wait? Yes. Oh my God. Yes. Unless you want to pay out of pocket. Like if I was to, I wanted to get an MRI like I did for my knee. And at the time, I didn't have any money. So I had to wait. It was like eight months. No way. It was insane. Unless you had a random opening or something. That's like another doctor from the UK at Hope's Sick Notes. He was just here. said that it takes up to a year to get a replacement hip or knee or something. Oh, yeah. It's crazy.

Any time it's like nationwide health care, it's not great timing-wise. No. Is there like urgent visits available? For sure. Yeah, for sure. Like if you're like if it's an immediate issue, like if you can't walk. Well, yeah. I mean more so in the scope of like, for example, if I have a patient that comes in

with really bad acid reflux and I'm like, they need a scope right away to see if they have an ulcer. But it's not an emergency, meaning like they're not dying right now. they're not losing blood, but they're very, very uncomfortable. So I'll get them seen the next day and then the following day they might get the endoscope done. Yeah. Is that how it works in Canada as well? Yeah, I'm assuming if you get like a doctor's recommendation, like I've had my doctor recommend.

I go get testing, but none of it's been like faster emergency, so I can't vouch for how fast that would be. But I mean, well, I've had like my dad has had pretty brutal knee. injuries and that kind of thing. And he still had to wait longer than you would here. Like, if it's not days, it's like weeks. As a family medicine doctor, I'm trained to provide a wide variety of health care services to my patients, including mental health care. I was curious to know how Canada's system handles mental health. And that's actually something Chris has had a lot of experience with. Recently, Chris has been more public discussing her experiences with an eating disorder or ED, something she started care for in Canada. I went to outpatient care.

for my ED and no I think at the time my parents were kind enough to pay for that but it wasn't covered by insurance so I think and same as like therapy or that kind of thing that's not covered in some jobs you do like my parents have government jobs and they have like a certain amount covered by it which I'm assuming is similar to here but they have like good government jobs so most jobs don't have that in general if you don't have a specific government type of job. You're just a regular citizen. You're paying your dues for the health care. Do you have access to therapy? Is it added into my insurance? Not mine, no. So I have to pay out of pocket. Yeah. And is it expensive there? Yeah. What's expensive? Depends on who you're going to, but it can range from anywhere

from like, you know, I don't know, like $100 an hour to $500 an hour. It just depends. It depends whether you're going to like a psychiatrist or psychologist. Social worker. Yeah. Navigating the mental health care space with so many specialists and so few openings for new patients can add insult to injury when you're in need of care. Fortunately, Chris's family was there to support her. The last thing you want to do is call a bunch of people, talk to a bunch of people, maybe get noes or yeses or whatever. You just don't want.

Like, it's the last thing you want to do. So. How did you manage that? I wouldn't have. I'd be dead without my family doing that. Oh, so your family support came in. And how did you have that conversation with your family to say that you need it? It was like an intervention.

Really? How did that happen? I was, this was like at the height of like the worst of my eating disorder, which was anorexia. And I was, I had a plethora of health issues and like heart problems and all that kind of stuff. Related to the anorexia. Related to that. My mom had made me go into my doctor and have like an initial.

look over to see what was going on, gave me the diagnosis and everything. And then he had separate conversations with my parents about what was going on and basically said what I just said, like if she keeps going this way, like she'll die. So they kind of just put their foot down and at the time I was still living with my parents and everything. So it's like I didn't really have a choice. Like I didn't care, but they cared. And like I cared about what they thought. So That's the only way, but it's sad when people don't have that backup like that because, like, how else do you do it? Yeah, like access to health care, mental health care, it really should be health care, because mental health care is health care, is the most important. Like, it matters less what kind of doctor you have, like psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker, just the fact that you have someone.

It matters even more what your social support system is. And in fact, that's one of the first questions we asked. Yeah. So do you have friends, family, people to call, even when we do crisis planning, if we're worried about some kind of ideation surrounding end of life, right away, what's the plan going to be if you start having these thoughts? Who are you going to call? Do you have someone?

If not, we'll get them the nationwide hotline numbers that are available so they'll at least have that. Right. Right. And I mean, that is good. That's another thing. Like, I am one of the hotline users. So I had been in the past because I didn't feel comfortable talking to, um,

other people like that. So it's nice to have a third party to do that with. But I didn't really have my doctor, which my doctor's great, but he didn't really sit down and say like, give me all that. Like say like, this is the plan. There was no plan. It was kind of like, here's a psychiatrist you should go to. He recommended I go to inpatient, but I wanted, like, I refused to not work because I was working as a hairdresser and I need to make money to live. So he recommended outpatient. And I pushed that away like for a really long time until my parents finally convinced me to do that so was it your parents plus your siblings yeah oh yeah yeah and it was a traditional honestly it was jessica my older sister first i'd say that she really really pushed for it or like pushed my parents to push me not that

my parents weren't concerned they were but she just saw i guess the worst of it because we were really close and like she could see because like every every eating disorder is super super different but anorexia especially, it was just a very, like, sneaky disorder. So she was able to see a lot of, like, the habits that I was doing. It wasn't just, like, me not eating dinner with my family. It was, you know, whatever, whatever I was doing. She was just able to see it more and tell my parents about it. And at the time, my parents didn't understand it at all.

So they're just mad. They're just mad that I'm hurting myself. They're just trying to be disciplinarians. They're trying to be disciplinarians. They're concerned, and they're sad. but they're more just mad because they're like you're like like at the time as you know relatively successful hairdresser like had my own business or like you're smart I don't know why you're doing this but it has it has nothing to do with any of that it's a mental disorder at the

end of the day so bless their hearts they went and like took classes on it and like to understand it and everything like that so again yeah if they didn't go through all those steps that's so important because inability to help initially stemmed from not them not caring. No. It was them trying what they knew best, which was a discipline approach. Yes. But then not understanding what the illness was about.

And then they pursued avenues to improve that. And then they were able to help. They did. Yeah, they did as much as they can. Sure. It was like hard. Like even today they don't like fully, fully understand it. And I try to help them understand it a little bit because I still struggle with it every day.

But yeah, I'm very thankful for them. to have gone through that. And like anybody out there that's struggling with it or knows somebody struggling with it, it is worth it to like research about it. Like because there's such a huge stigmatism around eating disorders in general that it's just image.

And it is so not like, that's like. That's the biggest misconception. I'd say in understanding it, at least. And for other people, like it's different for everybody. Of course. Maybe some people it is. What other avenues besides image that exist? So I'll just, I'll just speak

on my behalf, because everybody's so different. But for me, and this is through going through a lot of outpatient and therapy and all this stuff and understanding why I'm doing it, it was coincided with my depression, I had like mild OCD, and it was all about control because I felt out of control, and it was about hurting myself and not in an obvious way, not is in like some people cut, some people do, but that was a way of hurting myself. And yeah, it was hard to wrap my head around at first. But yeah, my whole thing revolved around having that one little thing that I can control in my life, whether if I couldn't control my job, I couldn't control my relationship that I was in at the time or whatever,

XYZ, all these things. But it was my one thing that I could. So, yeah, that's what it was for me. And then it revolved a lot around obsessive, compulsive numbers, like whether it's scale numbers, caloric numbers, how many steps you're taking. Like it just all, it didn't really matter about the image as much as it did about that kind of stuff. Just having that repetition and routine. Almost the same way that someone, when they think touching a doorknob multiple times is what an OCD, something what might look like. Exactly.

But this was surrounding calories. yeah like everything as an example but yes as one of the examples for sure and it's not that I thought like something bad was going to happen if I didn't but it was just like your mind was pushing on top of all that on the OCD stuff it was um just extremely horrible thoughts behind all of that so it's like if I don't accomplish these things then I'm a like I'm disgusting or I'm a failure that's probably the biggest one or yeah and it's just all this self-talk it's like having a devil on your shoulder through your whole day. Like even if you're not in any position where you're eating,

like if I'm, you know, I don't want to say, whatever. If I'm walking on the street, I'm thinking about if my sister texts me and say, hey, you want to go out to dinner or something like that. Then I have to think about, okay, the rest of my day is going to look like this and I need to make up for this and then after I need to make up for that. And then it's just, it's like constant and it just like overrides your entire life. and you become a miserable, miserable person, and I was for years.

Yeah, the devil on your shoulder that you describe is what I, in a medical sense, would coin the irrational worries or rational thoughts that we as humans all have cognitive distortions, if you will, where basically everyone is susceptible to this. It's almost like complete human nature that we have these cognitive distortions or irrational thoughts,

where if I get 10 A's but then I get one C, that means I'm a failure, that's an irrational cognitive distortion because getting 10A's and one C by any one's definition does not mean failure. It means you failed one test or maybe didn't get as great of a test and just replacing that thought with a more rational thought like, yeah, I didn't do great on this test, but it doesn't mean I'm a failure. It doesn't make you not feel sad. The goal of therapy and cognitive behavior therapy is not to not make you feel sad. It's to take away some of the power and give yourself some of the power back. Is that what you experience in therapy? That's exactly it. And it's like I was very,

very repellent in all the therapy I went to, group therapy, psychiatrists, all that kind of stuff. Repellent. Just, I didn't, everything that they told me, I was just, you're an idiot. Like, I know, like, pushing it away. I'm the exception to the rule. I was, yes, yeah, I'm smarter, like, everything you're saying. Or I know that these people haven't gone through it, so they don't know, even though that they've, they have medical degrees or this kind of thing.

Like, you still don't understand when I'm going through. So at the end of the day, it is completely up to you to use those. tools and whether I liked it or not I was learning tools like through all of that whether it's like a grounding situation or it's like you're just sitting in a room and you just need to like name five things in the room or just like a DBT now we're going yes yeah exactly or just literally just doing the exact opposite of what you're thinking and it that gives you more power and no I'm still not happy about that and I'm still sad about it but it's I'm not giving into the bad thoughts.

You're not spiraling. I'm not spiraling. And like, if I give into the ED thoughts, then I'm happy with myself, but in a bad way. You know what I mean? It's an unhealthy coping mechanism. It's an unhealthy coping mechanism. That's exactly what it is. Whereas naming five things in the room, healthy coping mechanism.

Exactly. So it's like taking some of the things where I was like, okay, I can do that and finding things that did help me. But there's lots of things that didn't help me. Like, I'm not that great at meditation. Like, it's just not something I'm good at. that. And it was hard because like my thing is like walks and like outpatient, inpatient, like you're not allowed to walk. So it's like, or you're not allowed to be active. And that's

like one of my escapes. Why do they say you can't be active? Because I was on like, at the time I'm on death store. And it's all about that. Even though I'm saying that, that's a little devil on my shoulder being like, oh, we can get steps in. We can, you know what I mean? So it's just like. I've worked in adolescent eating disorder facilities where literally you'll have seven-year-old hiding behind a bed and doing push-ups and sit-ups to try and burn extra calories. And this is not an image thing for them. They're not even aware of what society image would want them to look like or puts out from a society perspective. So it's not a culture thing.

Yeah, exactly. And for me, too, it's like I had got diagnosed with a bunch of stuff, but orthorexia too in terms of like just only being able to eat like healthy foods as well. Like it was like a sin for me to eat anything bad. So it was like for me to get out of that or during my recovery. And even now one thing that's extremely helpful to me is for other people to order food for me or like or not like order food for me. But like if I'm in a situation where I'm with another person, I don't even look at the menu. And I'm just like, you order for me because I still struggle with that.

So it's like that's another thing that's really. help me so because i already know too much yeah and it's almost what like all of that what we're describing the disordered eating the anorexia all of these words are really manifestations of how you're feeling on the inside 100 so those things can manifest themselves in a variety of different ways whether you start counting your calories obsessively and not being able to have control in that way or you start gambling so much that you're out of control with your gambling losing your life savings, but ultimately it's a reflection of those feelings and thoughts that drove you to feel that way or act that way, rather.

So really the triangle of actions, feelings, thoughts is an important triangle for people to start at least initially exploring when I start giving the intro of what therapy will be like because a lot of times, as we just discuss in our health care system, it takes a while to get people in. So as the first touch point, as a primary doctor, I at least try and give an intro. Yeah, that's great. Because it seemed like your doctor didn't. No, no, we didn't.

And the, what did you say? The feelings, thoughts and actions. Yeah, I think I went through that in opation or something like that, some sort of triangle, and you had to explain what each one was. But yeah, no, I didn't have that initial thing, so I was so resistant to it because there was no, like, understanding of what was going on. It was just me and looking at just Googling stuff, trying to understand what it was. And there, that's too hard to.

And it's, yeah, and then all you can get is the description. of what the ED is and you're like, well, that's kind of what it is, but it's also kind of this. So it's like, everybody's so different. Yeah, because I mean, if you look at whatever word you want to choose an addiction, substance addiction, gambling addiction, food addiction, it'll just say using that thing that changes your neurotransmitters to the point where you don't have control and it destroys your life, one aspect of your life at least, or a few aspects of you're like. And then in our diagnostic manuals, it's for a specified period of time, not just like it happened once. It happened for an extended period of time. But in reality,

it's so much more than that because a person is rarely their diagnosis. Yeah. Like you said that you had the diagnosis of anorexia. You weren't anorexic. That doesn't define you as a person because it doesn't tell me anything. Yeah. Like as a physician meaning. For sure. If you come in, you say, I was diagnosed with the anorexia, okay, well, what led to that? What was the reason? Was it image? Was it control over the numbers? Like, that's where you actually learn who the patient is. For sure. One thing that's a little flawed in that, too, is that like, and I think in anorexia especially is that it's kind of hard, and it's a hard way to put this, but like, you kind of have to, like, prove yourself to doctors. Yeah. For that anorexia diagnosis,

which is not necessarily something I wanted. But inside, I did want to, I did want help. Like, I wasn't happy with my life. I was miserable. I wanted to die. I looked terrible. I looked like I was on death store. I wasn't happy with it.

So when I go to the doctor and he's like, well, you know, like, yeah, you're, like, on the underweight BMI, but, like, I wouldn't say you're, like, anorexic. It's just like, so, like, you know, just easy. a little more and listen and you're just like oh fuck like I'm already I'm a failure again yeah so I can't even convince the doctor that this exactly exactly so it's like all right well like I'll show you you know it's like it's terrible but I think and I know because I went I went to a outpatient with a bunch of people with different kind of being disorders is that everybody kind of had to like prove themselves in a way which I understand because you don't want to just take everybody's word

as like a grain of salt. No, you shouldn't understand that. If somebody's suffering from binging. That's a failure of the system. Yeah. So it's. Maybe on an individual level. But systemically, that's a major flaw.

Because I'll tell you the problem it creates. A, it makes you feel like it's your fault when it fails. B, it forces you to overact your symptoms. And then what ends up happening is me as a physician, I'm like, why is this patient overacting? Are they seeking care for something that's not a problem? And there's actually somewhere else a problem. And now our whole line of communication has lost to trust.

Trust is lost. Yeah. So that's a health care system flaw, not something that. Yeah, yeah. Or like if it's just medication thrown on my face or something, which is like something I don't love to depend on, which I know it helps a lot of people. But for me, I've tried, you know, a plethora of different kind of medications. And I just...

Yeah, that's going to be individual dependent. But it really should be something that I feel are health care providers, especially on the primary care sense of things, be better versed at having these conversations. Yeah. Just to finish the point, because I think this is valuable to what you are hoping to see changed, is we have simulated patient encounters where we go into the room and the patient's an actor, they're like, oh, I have high blood pressure, but I don't want to take this medicine and you have to talk them into it or explain the risks or whatever, find some mutual line

of communication. And that's good training for diabetes, for heart disease, all the stuff. But then we never do it for more complex ones that are mental health related. And those are the ones that are the most difficult. because you never know how they are they going to go and as a doctor you cannot hope to have full control over that situation yeah you have to be just ready to react yeah in whichever way the patient needs support and whichever way the patient wants the conversation to go and learn from every experience and unless you do it you're never going to learn what you're going to end up doing

is here's a referral good luck yeah here's a medicine good luck and you're not really helping anybody by doing that no no yeah come in with a stomach ache you can fix that really yeah coming with. I mean, not really, but yes. But you know what I mean? Like,

it's not that my head things like. I'm with an appendicitis. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, sure. But yeah, it's like it's your, it's your mind on top of everything else.

So yeah. No, that's, I think that's a huge flaw in the system for sure. I agree. Yeah. What besides grounding, what's one of your strategies that you've used successfully?

You journal a lot, right? No, actually, I don't. Like you're always sketching. I mean, I write scripts. I write, and that's maybe a way of coping as well as this job came

very shortly after I started. recovery, about six, no, not even like four months after I started recovery. And I was trying to find outlets because recovery has been a nightmare for me. I've had ups and downs. It's nobody's recovery is linear. But anyway, at the time, COVID happened. And then I had to close down my salon. And that was one of my outlets was I'm an absolute workaholic. I have that kind of addictive personality. So that was ripped away from me. And I was just kind of sitting there, like, what the hell am I going to do? And then my little brother convinced me to get TikTok.

And I was not, I'm not much of a consumer. I like to do things. So I was just like, I'll make some videos. And I've always, I made like little skits for my family back in the day and that kind of thing. So I was like, and I love SNL and all these things. So I was like, okay, I'll make some skits or whatever. So that became my outlet. And I was unhealthily obsessed with that.

I was like pumping out like seven, eight videos a day. Well, just like how we said, you can get addicted to gambling. you can get that became my new thing on top of what the ED was a struggle but it became kind of something else I could focus on besides just you know being a recovering person so I started writing and filming and and doing all these things not to become TikTok famous that was not even on my radar it was just kind of an accident but yeah it became my new like coping mechanism and I'd say it still is in a way and I don't know if that's healthy if my job is kind of part of my coping mechanism.

Well, I don't want to be the judge of that because, A, doctor should never be the judges and are not your personal doctor. But what I think is important for you to make that distinction on your own is it sounds like before you were doing it to a degree that was very unhealthy, that was burning you out and creating more negativity, even though short term it abated some of that negativity. Totally a distraction method, for sure. But here, it sounds like it's becoming more of a positive outlet where you've gained control of how often you're creating content.

you have your own schedule where it's not now an unhealthy coping mechanism. Is that a correct assessment of what I'm looking at? I think so. Yeah, because I went through over 365 days. I think it was like 380-something days of posting in a row. Like I never took a day off. And it was like a goal of mine. Again, another like obsessive thing that I was doing.

And then I realized that I was like, oh, this is like becoming really unhealthy and I was getting burnt out. I was obsessing over having to post at the exact same time every day if I and obviously I was getting more and more viewers at that time so if I wasn't so the reward was there the reward was there for sure and like I don't especially now like I don't care about numbers like it's whatever but you you look at a video that you're I was just consistently growing like there was no going down so it was like oh here's a new thing I can fail at or continue to do that good at. And since I was posting every day, I was just like, well, if I stop posting every day, I'm going to be a failure. So it just continued. And then I just got to a point literally where I broke

down. I had given fully back into my ED. I had gone into a deep, deep depression again, having suicidal thoughts, all the whole barrage of things. And I was like, okay, something needs to give. I went back into therapy. And that was the consensus was like, you need to either stop all this together or find some sort of balance. So I had to like create a schedule for myself. And at first was still too much. But now I think I've gotten to a place where it's like I can manage. I can still manage to take care of myself or work on taking care of myself while still

being, you know, semi-successful at what I'm doing. Chris has done a ton of work to combat toxic inner voices. But what about toxic outer voices? As creators online, we are constantly confronted with bruising. comment sections and uncalled for reaction or take down videos, I wanted to know if Chris has found any methods of keeping her head above water when maybe the comments just aren't so friendly. It's probably like the worst job to go into if you're suffering from depression or ED or anything I was.

Well, is it because I've seen so many individuals find comfort in a community? No, and I'll, like, so it's good, it's great, and it's not great at the same time, which I don't know, could be any job. But since I'm being looked at under a microscope by 50 million people, there is pressure there, whether it's maybe not image as much, but just to perform or to make people happy or to make sure people are like content with what I'm putting out. Totally agree. But before you start giving the details, as someone who's had mental health diagnoses and

struggles, has going on social media made it more difficult, less difficult, or equally is difficult to manage those? I would say equally to more. Equally to more. And why? Now you can give the context. There's 50 million people

looking at you on your microscope to perform to make them enjoy. Yeah, so I go into it already with all of my health issues. And there are points in it where you get these highs where it feels good. There's that coping mechanism

where I can do something I love. which is definitely a positive to this job. I love writing. I love making people laugh. I love talking to people in the street that watch my videos and making their day. I love that. But then there's just the pressure involved in the job. Like it's much different than me being a hairdresser,

seeing one person a day and making that one person happy and turn that into 50 million people. So it's the pressure adds to my own bad thoughts that I'm having that day. Maybe I'm having a good day. and maybe it's okay, but if I'm having a bad day, it gets extra bad, whereas if I wasn't doing this job, because the pressure of all those people watching, if I'm having it like, or maybe it's not even a day, let's say I'm having months where I'm going through a really bad depressive episode. I need to wake up every day and I need to be funny. I need to make people laugh. I need to laugh. I need to put on this mask that feels fake to me. And I have a wonderful

audience that I really do like I I barely get any hate which thank you um there's me hate comments all in them but I've I've learned to not really uh to take the hate or I take the hate comments with like a grain of song like it's whatever like I try to focus more on the positive those are the people I'm entertaining if you're not entertained by that that's fine kick rocks like I don't care there's lots of other people to watch so that's that's not as bad for me it's just myself It's just myself and the pressure I put on myself more than other people because my audience is like tells me in my comment section or I've made a couple mental health videos where they're like, take a break, like take a step back. We don't care. Like we'll be here when you get back. But there's the devil on my shoulder that's like they're not, that's not true.

They're lying. Well, that's why therapy is for life. For all of us. 100%. So, yeah, it's overcoming those thoughts every day basically because that's what our job entails. It's like we need to perform to a certain degree. So it's like choosing my mental health or choosing to make people happy, essentially. It's kind of hard.

Can I make an observation slash assumption you tell me if it's wrong? As someone whose core struggle with their mental health has been surrounding the idea of control, social media is almost the place where you go to give up. because now 50 million people are controlling you in some way. Yeah. Has that made it problematic? Yeah, for sure, for sure. And not necessarily numbers-wise. I try not to focus on that.

And I think that stems from me coming into this, not really expecting a whole lot. Like, I didn't expect this to become my career. I mean, it's amazing. But, yeah, it's a lot of losing that control. But I think that's healthy for me in the same way because it's something I literally cannot, I have, I will never be able to control that. I will never be able to control the way people react to me. I will never be able to control the numbers. And I think that's okay. And I've come to terms with that. So I think that is healthy for me in a way. That's why I'm like, it's good and it's bad.

Yeah. Almost because it's so extremely hard to control makes it easier for you to give up control. Exactly. Same way, terrible example, but very similar principle. The initial SARS virus was so lethal that it actually claimed less lives than the SARS-CoV-2 virus that caused COVID-19 because SARS-CoV-2 was less lethal, so many people that didn't have symptoms spread it, that it ended up killing more people. Right. So something that was milder ended up being more deadly. Yeah.

This being so much hard to control may actually be easier. First, yeah, in a weird way, in a weird way it is. Because with, let's say, go back to food, it's like, I can control that. Like, it is me. I'm the one putting it into my mouth, whatever. I'm the one exercising. I'm the one. I can do that, but, like, I can't.

There's no way to control the audience. Do you know where, what population of people really thrive in this scenario? Like I said, I'm not recommending you become religious by any means. But people who succumb to a higher path, not succumb, belief to a higher power or have faith in a higher power, they're a cog in the system that there's a bigger plan for all of us. That giving up with the control is. actually quite healthy for them. My parents are going to love you.

My parents are... Again, I'm not advocating for this. I'm just pointing out the observation of that. No, it's true and it's funny because the thing that my parents always say is just like, it's out of your control. Somebody has a greater plan for you. And it's comforting.

It's comforting to know that. And I'm in a place where I'm like, I have no idea what there is or what there isn't or whatever. But it's kind of like a beautiful thing that they say and I'm like, God, I wish I could kind of like really believe that. And I want to, but it's kind of hard. But you're totally, you're correct.

Just in that observation that why people enjoy religion. It feels like because of that. It kind of all makes sense. It's like, oh, wow, yeah, like everything. And I like to think that, like, everything's kind of happening for a reason. It's out of my control. And going, like, taking myself, and this is another thing I do, rather than the grounding, is like, taking myself completely out of it and, like, you know, putting myself in space

and looking back down, it's like, God, everything's so small. Yeah. Everything I'm worrying about is so minute. it becomes more objective that way yeah yeah yeah what um what piece of advice from your life lessons learned on your very short time on this earth could you share with people that might be going through a rough time kind of what i just said it's just like we are all so much more concerned about ourself whether it's appearance or what other people think of us or little details just little things and we are all of our worst enemies and if we take ourselves out of that or put yourself

in somebody who loves shoes would would we look at ourselves the same way no we wouldn't so it's it's kind of for me at least i have to take myself out of my own shoes and look back at myself and be like okay like if if if i was talking to myself right now and you were telling me oh yeah i got a post every single day for this and like people are probably going to hate me if i you know eat a cheeseburger on Friday. It's like, no, like, that's, like, you sound crazy or whatever. So it's like, my advice is to just, like, take yourself out of, of, yeah, exactly. And just, just do some, it's hard to do realistic reflecting when you're in that kind of space. I've been there a million times. But, um, it'll pass. Like, that's my biggest thing is like, no matter how deep I've gotten

in shit and I've gotten in some deep, deep, horrible thoughts, but, like, I'm here today, and I've made it past those situations. Yeah. So, and finding a support system. If you can, that's, that's, that's been my biggest thing. And whether that's, it doesn't have to be your family, could be a friend, could be your doctor. Yeah. You're saying a lot of evidence-based things.

Great. Like when we say, when you're saying, like, take yourself out of the situation as much as possible, we literally advocate for patients to write down their cognitive distortion thoughts. that they're a failure because of X, Y, and Z. And just right next to it, write the rational thought that replaces it, even if you don't believe it, just write it. Totally. And just putting it down or saying it out loud, we'll already take a little bit of the

power back to you. So that's one of the things you advocated for. And then something I tell patients is their problems are not little problems because it seems demeaning for someone to say that when it's not them. Absolutely. But what we often do to ourselves is we hold the reason these problems are so big to us is because we're holding a magnifying glass on them. So, like, put the magnifying glass in your pocket and only take it out when you choose to.

Yeah. Because having that choice of when to take it out is going to give you a lot of power back. Yeah. That's a great way of putting it. No, I agree. I think we covered a lot. I think we did. Thank you for sharing.

I think it's going to help a lot of people. Therapy session. It's a therapy session because you're sharing with the world, your true self. And I think when you're transparent about who you are, I think that's when shoulders feel lighter. I think so. It makes me feel better. and it clearly has made other people feel better. And that's, I didn't.

Like, there's no mask. There's no. That mask. That's the thing is. It is. It is. And I like, yeah, I just think it's not doing my self-service or my audience service for me to pretend to be something I'm not. So this is me, baby.

Yeah. Accepted or no. I don't. Thank you for coming on the checkup podcast. Thank you for having me.