The Checkup with Doctor Mike - Steve Madden Loves Quaaludes, Hates Adderall, & Is Addicted To Nose Spray

Episode Date: April 21, 2023

Buy Steve's new book here - The Cobbler: How I Disrupted an Industry, Fell from Grace, and Came Back Stronger Than Ever: https://www.amazon.com/Cobbler-Disrupted-Industry-Grace-Stronger/dp/B0BLC2BT86Steve Madden is a world-renowned shoe designer, entrepreneur, and convicted felon. Quite the combination of accolades. Steve started his shoe empire hustling his designs in New York City until one day he came in contact with Jordan Belfort, The Wolf Of Wallstreet. Jordan helped Steve take his shoe company public, raise millions of dollars, but broke the law along the way, landing Steve in federal prison for 41 months. Today I talked to Steve about his time in prison, his philosophy in designing shoes, his addiction to nose spray, his struggles with sobriety, and the amazing work he's doing getting former inmates back on their feet when they finish their prison sentences.Executive Producer and Host: Dr. Mike VarshavskiProduced by Dan Owens and Sam BowersArt by Caroline WeigumCONTACT: [e-mail]

What are some of the biggest misconceptions you hear about prison that you say not true? Well, the biggest one is the country club thing. People say, oh, he went to a country club. You know, there's like a felon, a white collar. Ah, okay. That's no such fucking thing. Okay. It is awful.

That is Steve Madden. You may know him as the man who designed the shoes of a multi-billion dollar company or perhaps from his character being portrayed in Martin Scorsese's, The Wolf of Wall Street. Or maybe you know him from being sent away to federal prison for a pump and dump scheme. Regardless of where you know him from, Steve's intriguing story is truly one of a kind. So how does a world-renowned household named shoe designer wind up palling around with the most notorious Wall Street criminal of all time and land himself in federal prison? Well, it all started in the 70s. I worked in high school in a shoe store.

And what was your experience in the shoe store that made you enjoy the process? Very creative time. You know, it was the 70s and men and women were being. being creative. And I think the people that owned the businesses had been hippies and gone to Woodstock. This is before my time. I think that they were part of the counterculture. And then these people went into business. So they did things differently. And that's who sort of taught me. Despite his humble beginnings, Steve went on to become one of the most successful fashion designers in history, which naturally must have come from all the hard work he put into school,

right? I wasn't studying. You weren't studying. No, I was taking drugs and going to discothex. Okay, but no classes during that time? No, of course I did, but, you know, I was very immature. To me, it seems like such an interesting paradox that you're this phenomenal business leader but then struggled so much as a student. Why do you think that is? You know, I just wasn't interested.

Yeah, I wasn't interested. And also, I have ADD and I couldn't focus. And, you know, I was distracted with partying and stuff. I was young and immature. Steve was a hungry shoe designer with a dream to build a business. And where do big businesses go? Wall Street. But one does not simply walk down to Wall Street and start slinging deals. It's more complicated than that. Fortunately, Steve had a friend, this guy.

Steve Madden. Jonah Hill. No, wait, sorry, not Jonah Hill. Jonah Hill's character from the Wolf of Wall Street, who is loosely based off of Danny Porish, a childhood friend of Steve's. You see, Danny was working at a stock brokerage firm called Stratt & Oakmont for this guy. Leonardo Dick, I mean Jordan Belford, the Wolf of Wall Street. To put it in the simplest of terms, Jordan was a magical, electric, world-class criminal. Their exact scheme is a little bit complicated. You could read the fine print elsewhere.

But all you really need to know is what they were doing was illegal. And Steve Madden found himself right in the middle of it. You see, Danny brought in Steve and the Wolf of Wall Street made him a promise. If Steve agreed to let Stratton-Okman take the Steve Madden Company public, meaning listed on the New York Stock Exchange and run their little pump and dump scheme, Steve would become a multimillionaire. I was guilty, I want to say, you know, I was involved with these guys and we were selling stocks back and forth and all of that. I regret the terrible stuff that took place.

But Steve knew this was illegal from day one. So I asked him, what advice would he have given himself if he could go back in time? I would say, you know, don't take shortcuts and don't be so fearful and, you know, about money. And so it's like, oh my God, they're going to raise me this amount of money. I couldn't believe it. I never had a lot of money, but fear, you know, fearfulness. It was always so fearful. What was the fear of? I'm always fearful. And I was basically raised that way. Really? How so? Sort of like a psychiatrist you are there. I'm a real medical doctor. You are a medical doctor. Correct. Yeah. Dr. Mike. Yes. So, I mean, I was raised by, so my family was older than me. I was the baby of older brothers.

and all of that, and my parents were a lot older. So they were raised in the depression. You know, for you, you have to read about it in a book. But for me, I actually talked to the people that were actually in it. And everybody was poor and everybody was struggling. It was a crazy time in America. It will be like you trying to describe COVID one day,

what that was like. And so my parents had all this fear, like you could go broke and you'll lose everything and you'll have to like have soup three times today, which was really real, man. And as quickly as Steve Madden's stock price may have launched during their initial public offering, from $4.50 to over $18 on day one, Steve's entire life quickly came crashing down. He served a 41-month sentence in federal prison after being found guilty of stock manipulation, money laundering, and securities fraud. And while he admits the experience

was awful and forced him to grow, it didn't come without a little hustle on the inside. You were a master mackerel dealer. Yes, it was. Tell us about your mackerel dealing. I talked about a mackerel. It used to have packages of it. And there was the currency. So like if you wanted to get your laundry done,

you paid somebody two mackrels. You know, because there was no cash. You didn't need cash. Cash didn't mean anything in prison. It actually didn't. Wow. And so mackerel was the currency because it was good. It tasted good and people were always looking for food.

And so if you took, and the mess hall was just vile. So if you took mackerel and you put it on, let's say, cup of soup and you went to the hot water heater, right? And then you did the cup of soup and you drain the water out. Now you have like noodles, like pasta almost,

and you throw the mackerel over that. And it's actually good and you don't have to go to the chow hall and stand in line and go through all that bullshit. What are some of the biggest misconceptions that you hear about prison? that you say not true?

Well, the biggest one is the country club thing. What's the country club? When you hear people say, oh, he went to a country club. You know, there's like a felon, a white collar. Ah, okay. That's no such fucking thing. Okay. It is awful.

Because you've been in two different styles of prisons. Well, I was in what they call a camp where there was no fences, but you're not running away. I mean, and then there was one with fences. Okay. One was a low and one was a camp, but they're awful. And even without the fence. you know there were still prison guards and you still had to be you know in your bunk and it was

terrible you're a big proponent of prison reform what would you like to see changed well they give out too much time you know generally speaking to people oh you only got four years like i'll hear like do you know long fucking four years is you know they're just too draconian with prison time no matter what it is. I mean, I understand that violence is a different thing. But I'm sort of talking about nonviolent crimes, which would be drugs mostly. They just give out too much fucking time.

Yeah. What was your health experience like in prison? I know you got into some of the best physical shape. Yeah, I got in good shape. I worked out a lot. I learned down to lift weights. And so that was good, you know, because you've got to kind of keep sharp.

Of course. Yeah. Were you ever worried for your life in prison? Never. Never. Not for a minute. And you were friendly with all the folks there? You know, mind your own business, friendly with people.

What's a workout routine in prison like? What are you doing? I actually, it's similar now, which is sort of, you sort of do, the way guys in prison, they do one body part a day. You know, sort of, that's sort of what they do. That's sort of like the prison etiquette. So they're not doing like back and by. No, if you see a guy doing chess three days a week, he's like, he's fucking out.

You're like, you know, he's a punk. You don't want to talk to him. Okay. You know, guys will walk by and make comments. Oh, you do chest every day? You know, that kind of thing. So, you know, the idea is, you know, you will do, really, the old timers, you know, not having to do with age, but, you know, sort of a mindset is like you do one body part

a week. So you do chest and then you let it rest for a week. And you hit it again. and legs, back, buys, shoulders, tries. Are you doing any cardio? Not much. I just started to do Pilates. Oh.

Lift weights and do Pilates. What made you get inspired to do that? I'm a little stiff. I need to stretch as I get older. And so I'm enjoying it. You know what bothers me about Pilates as kind of like a guy that likes to lift weights? They'll put on the smallest little weight on your leg and they'll make you do the smallest movement and you feel so terrible that you can't do it.

You're like, this is so hard. Oh, it's so hard. I just did it last night. But it was good. You know, I had the roller on my back. And I'm just doing some basic stuff really stretching because I never stretch. Really? Yeah.

And I should. Is that catching up with you? Yes, for sure. What are you experiencing these days? No, I mean, you know, you're stiff and, you know, and I play a lot of golf and you need flexibility. And I'm not. So I'm really working on that. I'm curious.

I still love lifting weights. Really? Okay. I enjoy it. I love. I love going in the gym. I love listening to music. I love working out.

You know, I do. I don't do a lot of multiple body parts. Yeah. You stick to one group. I do, you know, I might do back and buys. You know, I might do that. You know, sometimes I just do back and I just do buys. But when you say you do just back, you're doing compound lifts, right?

You're not isolating. So you're doing rows or seated rows, you know. Lap, hold downs. The whole lad pulled down, bent over rows, you know, whatever, but, um, yeah, I guess it's for you. It sounds like it's almost therapy, no? I don't know if it's therapy, but I enjoy it. I love listening to the music.

I love that moment. I love the way I feel when I leave the gym, you know, feel a little pumped up. And it's a nice feeling, you know, and, uh, because we, you know, one, I am not the best eater. I want to be a good eater, but I'm not. It's just bullshit, if I say. Is it a salt thing? It's salt and sugar. Well, I don't know it's a mac.

Wow. I love sugar and I love salt. I do. It's hard. And I've tried to diet, you know. When you try to diet, what is it? I try to give up sugar. All of it entirely.

Well, I try. That's aggressive. Well, I mean, I try to cold turkey it. It's not easy. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. What's your go-to cheat meal? Oh, God.

Well. So the big thing for me is sugar in my coffee. How much sugar are you throwing? I love it. And I swear I tried, I love coffee. And I sort of tried the synthetic sugars, you know, stevia. And it just tastes so bad. What do you dislike about it?

I'm just struggling with that. Because you know those sweeteners are actually sweeter than sugar. No, I know. And interestingly enough, this is really going to be the most boring podcast you've ever done. What do you mean?

This is absolutely amazing. Ice coffee, you can put a sweet and low and it's fantastic. Huh. Ice coffee. You can't put sugar in ice coffee. But if I put a sweet and low in a regular coffee,

which is really what I love is regular coffee, it tastes vile to me. I wince when I drink it. So that's a big thing. You know how your brain knows when you're having one of those artificial sweeteners versus real sugar?

Tell me. It's the time of which, the sweetness lasts. When you have the artificial sweetener touch your tongue, it lasts longer. As opposed to real sugar, even though it's less sweet, it gives you the hit

and then disappears right away, dissolves on your tongue. I just don't like the taste. Yeah. That's why a lot of people say there's an aftertaste. Yeah. So what I'm struggling with now, just as long as I got you here, is sort of a crash

in the, and it's gotten more acute as I've gotten in my 60s, you know? When you say crash, like I'll get so dry. at around 12, 1 o'clock. I'll have the coffee in the morning. And it's almost to the point where I can't keep, like I have two people standing on my eyelids.

Sure, sure. You know, it's really terrible. Are you sleeping well at night? No, no, I don't sleep well. Well, that's going to be why. Any particular reason why? Is it because you have trouble falling asleep? No, I have apnea.

I think I have sleep apnea. Okay. And you know why that impacts sleep? Yeah, sure. What's your understanding of it? Breathing disrupts your sleep, right? Well, yeah, so basically when you have sleep apnea, your air wake essentially closes.

Yes. And it prevents you from going through the different stages of sleep. And as a result, you may not even realize you're waking up, but because your brain is not going through all the restful stages, you wake up feeling not refreshed.

And at 12 o'clock, you get daytime sleepiness. And that's what's happening to me, Dr. Mike. So I'm really struggling with that now. Are you anti-CAP? No, I just haven't gotten it together to do the CPAP thing, and I suppose I need to do it.

For sure. I got a lot of, it's an issue because it's really affecting me now. Steve isn't alone in his struggles with sleep. I know plenty of you out there struggle with it because even though I'm constantly talking about the benefits of sleep, even I have a hard time maintaining a consistent sleep schedule. I think this problem is getting really bad, not just on an individual level, but a societal level. Here's the bet I'm willing to place right now. The addiction we have to our phones,

our never log off, and hustle all day, everyday culture is destroying our sleep. And it's going to have widespread negative effects on every aspect of society 20, 30 years from now. Long-term health problems will start increasing from our lack of consistent sleep. And Steve says he's already feeling it. And I'm starting to forget things, little basic sort of things. There's a girl that works for me, a designer. And I wanted to send her a shoe. She's been with me 12 years or something.

And I couldn't remember her name for like 35 seconds. I mean, that happens. No, I know it happens. And no, I like this girl a lot. Sure. And she's important to me. But I couldn't remember her name. And I struggled.

And it took me 30 seconds. That's something new. Okay. so some new forgetfulness has happened. Yes, new forgetfulness. Also, age. Yes, of course, yes. And past lifestyle habits.

I know you're pretty open about your drug use in the past. Oh, God, I took copious amounts of drugs. Yeah? I did. Tons of drugs. Bad times. What were you doing?

Well, I used to drink a lot. And then I got into a, there was a muscle relaxer that was very much sort of my age group. It was called Kualud. I'm sure you've heard people talk about. It was very much. street yeah right those are all my guys those are all my contemporaries we it was just it just oh my god

this pill you know made you feel so great you you know and we got in trouble with it and you know it was like it was an amazing pill quailudes are an amazing pill amazingly bad you see the drug is technically called metacualone and it's a hypnotic sedative among other effects it lowers your blood pressure, slows your pulse and breathing rate, dramatically relaxing you and making for a very effective medication to help you fall asleep. And because these drugs could quickly knock you out, it doesn't take a genius to see how it could be used for extremely nefarious purposes. It was actually discontinued in the U.S. in the 1980s due to major side effects, including its extreme addictiveness. And the remaining pills became highly valuable in the black market. You talk about it in such a

romanticized way. It's crazy. Well, it's awful ultimately because, you know, I mean, You don't want to be addicted to anything, but it made you feel so good. And it just did, you know. And then I got sober. And then I got, and then I went out again. And it was on opiates. Vicodin, right?

Yes, Vicodin. Pain killers. The thing about that drug is, is that you, you know, you need more and more. Yeah, you build up a tolerance. Yeah, and then if you don't take it, you get sick. really say. Yes, so you got a double-pronged fucking, it's awful. It's like you're kidnapped.

Yeah. It's like being fucking kidnapped. I'm sober now, a while. Congratulations. Completely and sober, which is great. I'm quite proud of it. And so, but it was, it was terrible. What was your strategy for becoming sober this time around? Well, there was only one way for me to really get sober in those to go to a 12-step program. Well, you know, certain things. I don't even know, you know, sort of a principle. we don't the 12-stop program you're not allowed to sort of mention it you know and um but i have to tell people of course what i don't see any other way and i don't know why it works either well but i can tell you it works well the problem is with quitting certain substances some you can go cold turkey yeah

and biologically medically makes sense but those like benzodiazepines the annexes of the world the opiates of the world. Sure. Quitting those cold turkey is brutal on your body. Yes. Alcohol, brutal on your body. Yeah.

You could develop seizures if you've been drinking very heavily and stop abruptly. And we're talking about the negative effects of these illicit substances. Do you think at any point those things gave you

an edge business-wise earlier? No. There's nothing. Nothing. No. Zero. Because you see all these Wall Street people do cocaine and all this.

There is a, you know, there was always this thing, you know, there's always these great writers who were, you know, Joyce and Hemingway and Truman Capote, whatever, drunken riders of Fitzgerald, whatever, you know, and like, oh, it's like they got sober and they couldn't write anymore. That's fucking bullshit.

Okay. That is total crap. Most, first of all, a lot of those guys are very prolific when they're young. Just the way it is. There's a whole other podcast. But it's not my experience, but because I've been successful after that. but um but they're romanticizing it in the same way that you look back at it fondly but the truth of the matter is the truth of the matter is getting sober will enhance your career whether it's shoes

medicine or uh you know you're a musician and i could point to someone like eric Clapton who's almost in his 70s and he's still great yeah he got sober he was a falling down junkie and he got sober and James Taylor. Well, they say some of the best art comes from pain. So many great musicians got sober. And then you, I always wanted to know what happened to the ones that flamed out. Sure. Like what, what happened to this group?

They were so amazing. If you look and dig down, you'll find it substance abuse. I was glad to see Steve take such a strong stance against these drugs. But there is one he thinks does come with a significant advantage, Adderall, an ADHD ADHD medication designed to help with focus. It's a powerful and least. legal medication, but one you could only get with the prescription from a doctor if you really need it. Well, Adderall, that's a different drug. Oh, why is that different? Why do you classify?

Adderall slows the front of your brain down and it allows you to sort of focus. And it does works on kids. All the kids in the schools, I've never taken it, but all the kids in the colleges are taking. Are taking out of it. Yeah. Like every kid, I think. Not every kid. I've never touched Adderall in my life. No, but you know what I'm saying. No, a lot of people do take it. In med school, it was your generation. Yeah, they were abusing it. Every, every, I know a lot of friends have daughters who go to, you know, Wisconsin and Indiana and Michigan and Tulane and everyone is on Adderall.

And are they on it by a doctor who's diagnosed them or just buying it from your friends? No, no, they get it and they do well in school. So do you think that's a problem? Do you view that as a problem? I don't think it's great. why i don't i i don't know i think it's a problem i think they're getting through school but i don't know that they're really learning and getting any wisdom i think that's a valid point and uh i i know i know a few kids at friends daughters you know and they're doing well in school the grades are

fantastic 3.0 4.0 whatever you know but if you talk to them about what's going on in the world they have no fucking idea but that's pretty typical for kids wouldn't you say no they really don't have any real knowledge they really don't but i mean rewind to when you were 18 did you know what was going on no i was i was very i was both fucked up and smart and was into i knew stuff okay but that's because i came from a family that was aware you know and talked about current events at dinner and stuff like that, you know. Yeah, I feel like it prevents them from building habits that lifelong are going to allow them to continue learning. I think learning, you know, you can't be high. Yeah. I just don't see it. Yeah. The quest for knowledge. Now, the other argument is how is Google for learning as

opposed to, you know, cracking open a book or, you know, we can Google anything now. Well, forget Google. We could chat GPT now. Have you seen this stuff? Yeah. Yeah. Does that scare the living? No, it doesn't scare me. No, it scares me. doesn't scare me. But that's not progress. Well, I mean, whatever it is. I mean, it is. Technology.

Innovation. It doesn't scare me. I accept it. But like, you watch like I-Robot or something where the robots take over? You don't fear that a little bit? No, I don't. I don't really. I don't.

I actually don't. You know, let's just say that, so the smartphone. Yeah. You know, kids are on their smartphones. So it's blocking them from reading and doing other stuff. On the other hand, you know, the smartphone is great. I mean, let's be honest, it's amazing. Sure.

I worry about an artificial intelligence. I don't worry about technology. Well, you're, because you're way, I'm still on this smartphone. But think about, like, so there's good and bad. I mean, you know, and the radio, you know, TV took over for the radio. People would say, oh, my God, you're not using your imagination. Sure, sure. And you used to hear these great things on the radio and this wonderful world in your brain came on.

And, but that wasn't the case at all. Yeah. They used to say the same about newspapers or newspapers came out. Yes. So the truth of the matter is there is a, there is a price to pay for the smartphone. But I love it. I do. Do you let your kid use it?

They do. It is a battle that I cannot win, sadly. Do you put limitations on screen time? I don't and I should. And I know I'm trying, but it's a losing battle. My wife does. wife does she's much better than me okay yeah yeah that's interesting yeah i'm curious um you know what i'm trying to say of course of course i understand that we shouldn't stifle innovation what i will tell you

dr mike yeah i am a reader okay i've been a reader my whole life and i don't read as much now and i know is that because that's because you choose not to no i know it's because of the smartphone because my brain is just wired different now what's a truck i'm doing i'm doing doing 10 things. I'm on the phone. Yeah. And I'm literally doing checking stocks, reading Twitter, you know, looking at the weather. Yeah. I mean, reading this, reading the newspaper, looking at pictures. Do you think it's distracting us from our anxieties? Like, no, but I'm doing like 10 things at once. I'm there. I'm like, whoa, blah, blah, blah, you know, but I can't read like I used to. Yeah. Because my brain gets like after a while, something, something is not firing the right

way. It's almost like dyslexia. Sure. Well, I mean, it's fueling the ADD diagnosis that you mentioned. Totally. If you weren't ADD, you are ADD. And if you were ADD, like me, you're on another level of fucking deficit disorder. Steve is proudly sober, but he still has one vice, no spray, which he actually pulled out of his pocket in the middle of our interview. Oh, this is cool. I get to talk about your nasal spray thing in jail also, right? You were smuggled it. You were smuggling it in. How did you get on that? So just it's a, you know, my nose gets super stuffed. And so I use it and it clears it up. That's it. Simple is that. Yeah. And then the rebound is. It's terrible. Yeah. That's like what I always warn my patients, that no more than two, three days, because the second you stop, it comes back

reaching. Don't get ridging. Don't what? Don't let them get on it. Yeah. It's a big problem. Because the way that it works is it actually shrinks the blood vessels in your nose so that your nose produces less mucus but then the second you discontinue with the blood vessels rapidly expand create more mucus and you feel terrible yeah do you feel like it gives you any other edge because i know some tennis players use it for like a focus thing as well no because they changed the the ingredients in it over the last 10 20 years yeah before he used to use like a type of adrenaline almost yeah no no not giving you that and why was it popular in jail or was it just popular no i mean i smuggled it in because for yourself my nose and stuff wow okay yeah

And they sell only saline in prison. Ah, okay. But you put it in a saline bottle. I did. Very good. You remembered. Did I say that in the book? Yeah, that's great.

Obviously, Steve Madden has lived quite the colorful life, which is why I wanted to ask him how he felt when he was first told he would be portrayed in the Wolf of Wall Street. Was he involved in any decision making? Or was he subject to whatever Scorsese wanted to do with his story? Oh, God. So upset. Freaked up. Oh, yeah.

The Wolf of Wall Street. But isn't this like a great way to repopper? to be very good for me. It was good for our brand, and it was, it treated me well. The film treated me okay, you know, sort of treated me as a victim in the film, which I was not, actually. I wasn't a victim, but I was treated.

So that was good. It was sort of a nerdy character in the film. Dustin Hoffman's son, right? Yes. Yeah, yeah. Did you like who they chose? Well, he's much better looking than me. So that was good.

It's always good to have that. Um, so he never got together with him. I was supposed to. Really? We were supposed to meet a few times because he dated, he, he dated a girl that was a model for me. Wow. And, uh, she was supposed to get us together.

And what came back to me was that, um, Martin Scorsese wouldn't let him meet me. Interesting. And yet they had Jordan Belford in the film at the end. Yes. But you, they excluded. Why is that? You know, I don't know, but he didn't want to. him to meet me and it's fine. I mean, I don't really, not that big a deal, but, but he was great.

I mean, he was good. I would like to meet him one day and, you know, shake his hand. I mean, come on. Did you develop any relationships with the other cast, Leo or Martin Scorsese or anybody? No, I'm such a big fan of, uh, of Martin Scorsese and I did meet DiCaprio. I did meet him in my favorite Italian restaurant. Which is what? It was a place called Scalantella on 61st Street. okay and uh and i wasn't to scorcesium obviously his films are you know fantastic and uh and i looked at his townhouse to buy it one but we never got to meet he filmed in my store by the way they did a they did a scene i think it was edited out of the film in the store which was a surreal experience because, you know, when I started the business in 1993, now here we are, you know,

in 2014 and they're, you know, it's kind of like, you know, like the Al Jolson story is something you're too young. I don't know who that is. You know, it was an interesting thing to watch part of your life be recreated for Hollywood. And the fact that they're not consulting you on this as wild to me. Well, on the store they did. I was at the shoot, you know, a little bit. He does it remote some of the scenes. Really? Yes. Wow.

He's remote. Even though Steve served his time and has moved on from prison, he's still been very critical of the U.S. prison system and is doing his part to help his fellow inmates follow in his footsteps by regularly hiring former felons to work in his company. You made that one of the missions, right? When you came out to hire? Yeah, I tried to do what I could do. How do you feel doing that now? Do you feel like that's a successful route or do you feel like it gets you to trouble? We don't have enough, you know, but guys are, it's a tough one.

Yeah. guys people in prison you know mostly the drug dealers sorry can you just move the mic because they're mostly drug dealers so you know they used to have a quick buck so it's hard there's some of them but i have two guys that are executives in my company that i did time with wow yeah one of the biggest health problems i see from my patients is a wide variety of different pains stemming from poorly designed footwear so with the cobbler himself seated right in front of me I had to ask the big question. When designing shoes, are you thinking about looks, fashion, style, or is there a functionality

health component? None. Zero. Zero. Can I motivate you to start thinking about the poor foot? Yes, of course I want to do that. But what we mostly think about is how they look. Okay.

Do you know how many patients come to me with problems with heel spurs? No, that's good stuff. I don't mean to make light of it. But I'm just saying, I'm focused on how it looks. Yeah, got it. Yeah. Because I can't begin to say how many people develop foot problems from tiny footwear. Sure.

I have a neuroma. You do? I do. From tight fitting footwear. I guess, yeah. Well, Steve, maybe we can talk to someone who designed shoes about making some footwear that fit a little better and cut down on your foot injuries. Speaking of foot pain, click here to see a video about one of my wildest patient encounters

of all time that started with foot pain. And as always, stay happy and healthy. Thank you.