The Checkup with Doctor Mike - The Harsh Reality Of Having An Eating Disorder | Lindsey Stirling

Episode Date: September 15, 2024

If you or someone you know is battling an ED, you can find help and learn more here: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/eating-disorders/in-depth/eating-disorder-treatment/art-20046234 Follow Lindsey Stirling: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyC_4jvPzLiSkJkLIkA7B8g Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lindseystirling/?hl=en TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lindseystirling?lang=en Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lindseystirlingmusic/ 01:15 Tour Life / Imposter Syndrome 05:45 Social Media Fame 10:30 How She Started 23:35 America's Got Talent 29:30 Being A Pirate 37:04 Medical Bills / Cancer 43:04 ED 1:01:25 The Power Of Music 1:05:35 The Future Executive Producer and Host: Doctor Mike Varshavski Produced by Dan Owens and Sam Bowers Art by Caroline Weigum Contact: [e-mail]

I didn't even realize it until I was in my 20s, like my early 20s, I learned that I was anorexic, which is a disease that comes from this need to have control over something in your life. And it was a very odd thing because I was actually studying to be a therapist for troubled teenage girls. I was working at a rehab facility where a lot of our girls were anorexic. And even with all of that data in front of me, it took me so long to realize that, like, oh my gosh, I'm completely being controlled.

controlled by this thing that I think I got into because I was trying to control my life and it now is controlling me. I'm thrilled to have the incredibly talented Lindsay Sterling joining us today. An extraordinary violinist, dancer, and composer, Lindsay has captivated audiences across the world with her unique fusion of classical music and electronic dance beats. Her journey from America's Got Talent Loser to YouTube Sensation to chart-topping artist is nothing short of epic. And throughout this interview, she shares some of her most powerful stories of overcoming the loss of loved ones, battling anorexia, and dealing with the failures of launching a new artistic genre. Hugely excited to welcome Lindsay Sterling to the Checkup podcast. Welcome to New York. Thank you.

I'm fresh off the boat. I just got in this morning. You know, it's funny, fresh off the boat for me being a Russian immigrant means something different than it probably means to you. It probably does. What is fresh off the boat means you? Well, I should have said fresh off the bus. We just rolled in this morning. A tour bus and all?

A tour bus, yeah. And what was last night? What was going on that you were coming in? Last night, we had a show in Asheville. It was great. Such a cute town. But yeah, I actually loved the tour life. Like just mostly doing a show almost every night.

We do like five nights a week and hit a different city, like most days of the week. And the current tour is called Duality? It is. And what does that mean? So Duality. It's the name of my album. But it comes from a lot of different things. But I kind of came up with this concept because I've just been thinking so much about myself and how, I don't know, I think we're all very conflicted people.

I think that we have moments when we feel really brave and really strong. We fully believe in ourselves and you're like, I can do anything. And then almost the next second you fully doubt. And you're like, why, you know, you get imposter syndrome. And you're like, why would I ever think I could do anything? And, you know, we just have so much conflict in us constantly. And even the music I was writing, I kept trying to like. like find one sound. I was trying to write a rock album. And then I was like, that's not feeling

right. So I'm going to try to write a pop album. And everything just, you know, felt too constrained. So finally I just wrote. And I almost felt like I wrote two different albums. And so I was like, oh, these are just the different like dualities of myself and music form. And so anyways, it was really a fun album to write. And it's a super fun tour to do because it's kind of like this parallel universe that we get to kind of go back and forth between different sounds, different sides. And you're performing in two avenues by doing the art form of dance and the art form of violin. Yes. So that also feeds into the duality of it all.

Very true. Do things that normally don't go together. You mentioned this idea of imposter syndrome. Have you ever had a moment that you can describe where you had the imposter syndrome and then you proved yourself to be worthy of the title? All the time, you know? Take me through the most recent time. The most recent time was a professional violinist came to my meet and greet, and she was like, you know, I'm a professional violinist. I'm so excited to see you perform tonight. And immediately I thought, oh, she's going to know. Like, she's going to know. Then I'm not really like a great violinist. And that was like my first thought. And even as I was playing that, and I was like, you got to be super in tune tonight. There's a professional violinist in the crowd. Then I was like, you know, like snap out of it. Like I've never pretended to be the best violinist in the world. Like I do my thing. I do my thing. I do my. my thing in my own way and you know look trying to snap yourself out of it and then being able to do

like a fine show a show that I could be proud of even though I'm like she's gonna know what strategies do you use in those moments where you are finding yourself having some doubt you know I think you just literally have to turn inward like no outsource outside facts can you know ever fix that really like the amount of applause from a crowd will never change the way that you feel about yourself if you doubt yourself, you know, and I felt that massively when a few years ago, my anxiety just kind of out of nowhere. I was like, wow, when did I become a super anxious person? I don't know, but I'm pretty sure this is anxiety. And I remember during that time, I would walk on the stage every night in so much fear of just like, I'm going to let this audience down. I can't let them

down or I'm going to disappoint them. They're going to be so sad they bought a ticket tonight. And because of that, no matter how I performed, no matter how much they cheered for me, I would walk off stage, sure that I had disappointed them and that I wasn't enough. And, you know, and, like, no outside source could fix it. And one day my therapist actually said to me, because I was telling her this. And she goes, isn't this your dream? And I was like, yeah. And she's like, what did your dancers think about the show last night? You know, because we just played Red Rocks, which is like an iconic venue. Everybody dreams to play Red Rocks. And I was like, they loved it. And she's like, how did your band feel about the show? And I was like, they were stoked.

You know, she's like, and you went to your dressing room and cried after the show and closed your door. And she's like, you're missing it. You're living your dream and everybody else is living it, but you're missing it. And it was just this moment of like, I've got to figure this out because no outside source can. And, you know, figuring out how to calm anxiety, how to get it under control before I walked onto that stage, how to get a better perspective because this perspective I walk onto that stage with or the perspective you walk into a party with or like, you know, that's what you're going to usually leave with. Yeah. In starting your career exploding in 2010, did you notice social media playing a role in fueling that anxiety? Because normally when you're talking to yourself, that's hard, right? Because you have your own worst critic there. But then when that starts multiplying on such a large scale

where everyone's voices are now heard by you and heard by you at all times of the day, not just when you're on stage, but they're coming home with you. They're in bed with you. For sure. Did that take a toll on you? It did. And to be honest, it still does. Like, I still have to check myself. I don't think it's the kind of thing that, at least my personality, I can't just check that off and be like, no, no, no.

Remember, we don't care what people think. Remember, haters on the internet are trolls. Like, you know, I really have to, like, talk myself off the ledge, you know, pretty consistently where you start to, like, because once you, like, see, like, a video nowadays, it's like TikTok videos of people talking about you and assessing you. It's not just a comment anymore. And so, you know, if you go down that rabbit hole, then all of a sudden you're like, oh my gosh, this video has 5,000 likes. Oh, my gosh, there's 2,000 comments, you know, and then you go through and people are agreeing.

And so you're like, it's not just a comment. It's like there's a rabbit hole of information and that leads you to another video of someone assessing you again. And so it is this thought of like, you know, really there's every reason to feel almost every emotion all the time. You can feel lack. You can feel abundance. You can feel gratitude. you can feel, you know, pain, you can feel love, you can feel jealousy. And there's a reason for all of it, I've just realized.

And you get to choose where you're going to draw your source. You get to choose where you're going to draw your strength. And are you going to focus on that negative? Or are you going to say, I know there's plenty of positive examples of my imprint on the internet as well? And so really, like, taking a moment to like take a deep breath, pull yourself off the ledge, shut down that video, and choose another option. Choose something else.

The disconnection is so valuable. I found that even for myself, when I see negative comments or negative videos about content that I've made, it's easy to continue down that rabbit hole of catastrophizing and thinking that everyone believes this. And now this is going to change everyone's perspective of who you are. And then when you step out into real life as opposed to life on social media, you're like, wow, that's not what most people think. Right.

And it's hard because if you're enveloped in that world, because it's easy. easy to be involved by social media. You could be anywhere in social media will be there versus the real world. You have to go out somewhere. Yeah. And you have to make the choice to go there. That's why I feel like one of the greatest things that I tell my patients when they feel that way is to not necessarily shun social media, but try and just shift the balance of being

more in the real world. Absolutely. Even if you're in a real world where people don't like you, it's going to feel better than social media. Anything's better than that. Right? Because it's such a fuel fuel. fueled fire of what is going on on social media.

What would be your advice, given all the stuff that you've been through in your career, for someone who is up and coming as a performer, musician, or even a content creator? What would you tell them to focus on when they are perhaps having those moments of doubt? Oh, well, if it's moments of doubt of like, you mean like haters kind of thing? Yeah. I mean, I would say just like there's always way more positivity than there's a negative. negativity almost always you know and I think that the the negative voices there for some reason so much louder and I think that with anything in life not just social media like but you'll have

hundreds of comments and then one bad one will like stick out but in all of life it's a lot easier to notice that the anger or the the hate in this world but I really do also believe that the the love the joy the gratitude like all of that stuff it's more powerful and if you choose to focus on it you choose to find it it has more ability to actually change you and make you feel good and like lift you up you know but you have to like kind of focus on it yeah you're right you're right you're right yeah not just from an experience but it's true because there is this negativity bias that we all have in fact that's how we survived because if you're more conscious of threats unless just dancing in the field where there's a bear running around you're more

likely to survive but now in the world where technically some negativity is always around us it's hard to escape that bias. Yeah. It has to be a conscious choice and not just, oh, when is this going to stop? Technically, it will never stop. So you have to figure out how to make the choice of not paying attention to some of these negativity situations. 100%.

Yeah. For you, as someone who picked this very unique avenue of performing social media, how did you decide that this is the way you want to go? Was it circumstances aligned and you found your love for the fiddle? or it somehow was guided to you by a friend, a loved one? You know, the whole experience, I mean, I've played the violin my whole life, always loved it. I kind of started to find this niche style of mine.

Honestly, because I just got really bored and burnt out, I guess is a better word. I played classical all growing up. I was about to study to be a classical performance major and just realized, like, I don't even like this anymore. This is, you know, and I've realized now, in hindsight, I'm a very creative person. I'm creatively driven. And as a classical musician,

I never even got to choose what I played. You're handed a shoot of music with dots on it, and you express it as you're told. And so when I realized I was burnt out, I started to just experiment. And for the first time, being like, what would I want to play? Like, I guess I could play anything.

Like, and what... Was that weird feeling like you actually have to make the choice of what you want to do? Right. It was. It was like, I don't know what I like to play. And so I just started, like,

jamming with other bands. I would go to like, little open mic nights. And if I thought someone was cool, I'd made it a little bit of, business card and I'd be like, hi, if you ever need a violinist to record on your, you know, if you're making a track or an album or something, like, here's my number. And so I made all these little business cards and I would just start playing with random people from country

musicians to EDM artists to, you name it, singer-songwriters. And it started to awaken me this really fun world where I got to write and I got to express and I figured out my style. And it was just so, the style was so big because I loved EDM. And at the time I was really into dobstap. So like big, massive drops. And I was like, well, I can't just, like, stand there with this kind of music. I got to learn how to move. Like, I got to express it. So you weren't originally dancing?

Well, no, I was never a dancer growing up. And so, yeah, and I, in my, even my lessons, my classical teachers, when I'd have my recitals, they'd be like, you know, move a little bit. Like, you can emote, Lindsay. And I was always so rigid. And so it was a very conscious, like, I am going to learn to, like, move. So how does one learn to dance? Because I need some advice on this. Okay.

Let's walk. through this. Honestly, I just started by being like, what could I possibly do while playing? Okay. And it started with just like, oh, I can walk on the beat. Oh, I could flick my leg. Oh, I could, you know, I could like use my hips. Okay.

You know, so it's just really like so rudimentary, so simple in the beginning. And, you know, through the last 12 years of this journey, I've gotten to work with amazing choreographers and learned a lot. Dancing with the Stars gave, that's how you learned to dance. You need to be on Dancing with the Stars. Yeah. How do I do that? Bribe?

Yes. I was like, how did I get on that show? You, yeah, you just need to reach out to them. You need to start pinging their dancers and be like, I need to learn to dance. And, yeah, they would love you. I think you'd be a hit. I think I'd be terrible as a dancer, but I'd be so enthusiastically bad that it would create maybe some good ratings. Honestly, there's, okay, there's different people.

Sorry, I'm on a tangent now. No, this is a good tangent. There's different people that do. You see what happens when you don't have a script? I love it. I was so impressed that you're like, no, we're just going to. this. I was like, I started to sweat for you. Like, how do you do that? I like playing every moment of my show. Um, so anyways, impressive. Dancing with the Stars. There's like different types of

people that do well in the show. There's always one that makes it to the end that's like a great dancer. Then there's always one or two that make it all the way to the end. As progressive learner. That like learn that grow and everyone's rude for you because everybody loves you always lose. You always lose. Actually, no, um, Bobby Bones won and he was was don't hate me bobby bones fans you know it he was awful but he was so likable and he improved and you know like you couldn't help but love him so don't come at me bobby bones fans he was great okay so you could be the bobby bones that could be the future because it's hard to find that rhythm for me oh they'll teach you they'll great okay so how do you learn how does one learn rhythm

oh i was just going to say that's a tougher thing yeah okay this blows my mind so you can't hear the rhythm of a song if you're listening to a song if you're listening to a song You don't know when to bob your head. Yeah, I can bob my head. Okay, that's rhythm. But then you have to coordinate the limbs. The limbs have to hit the rhythm. Which is weird because I'm an athlete.

So you would think there's coordination in being an athlete. I think it's in you. I have to search deep inside. I think you just need a great ballroom coach to pull it out of you. You know, it's funny. Russian guys are like notorious for taking classes in ballroom dancing and being. Yeah, they're great. But even they're not great freestyle.

Like, I'll see some of these ballroom dancers, and I'm like, wow, you're so good. And then you'll see them in a nightclub. You want to look great in the club. That's where you want to look good. Okay. In the discotheque. In the discotheque. Okay. We can work on that. Okay. So you learn to become a really good dancer. Yes, I have learned. And in doing that, who has been an influence for you in shaping what future Lindsay looks like?

Or is it you're creating, you're the trailblazer in this? You know, it's not ever violinists that, I mean, there were definitely violinists that did unique things and made me very inspired because I was like, oh my gosh, they're doing it their own way. But as far as like movement and dance, honestly, some of the people that have really inspired me the most is honestly pink, just going to a pink show. Because I also, like, I would say Cirque Disillay was like one of the first. I was like, they do crazy stuff that you've never seen before. They combine things that shouldn't be combined. They, you know, they're just these incredible, like, how on earth do you do that kind of people? I just remember really being inspired by that.

So that was probably first. But then I went to a Pink show, and Pink is, like, flying around in the air. And you know she wasn't raised to be a, like, circus performer. She's someone who has learned that because of the way she wanted to perform. And it made me be like, well, like, oh, I could probably do something like that. So anyways, I got super inspired by her. I now do aerial acrobatics and stuff in my show, which is super fun. How much harder does it make to play the violin when you're in the air?

I mean, it's harder, for sure, but it also is like a really fun challenge, not to say like I've mastered dance and violin, but it's also like I've become quite comfortable in learning choreography and spinning and doing backbends while playing. And so being able to like now go up in the air and do like hoop routines and stuff and then they'll hand me my violin and I, oh, it's so fun to see the reaction every night in like the crowd, you know, just I'm like, oh, I know they're going to get stoked right now. I don't know, it's really fun. No, that is really fun. In learning this craft, have you ever had setbacks mentally physically medically maybe even for sure um i actually um i mean i feel like i've learned this process of when i have that feeling of oh this is impossible i'm like actually we just started it always feels impossible when you start remember when i first started to try to like walk and play at the same time it felt impossible it was like you know it was like this i was like i can't use these two parts of my brain and so i always think back to that and i'm like well what i can do now and movement you know so whenever i was like on the hoop and like upside down and i'm like gravity is pulling against the bow this is just impossible and i'm like no no no we just started i'm just the

beginning of this process like walking felt impossible once upon a time i'm sure you know so you do a lot of evidence based strategies just so you know is this from therapy did you pick this i've been through to a lot of therapy no because it's so accurate to look at past episodes of success as a way to give you reassurance to move forward yes well actually it's funny, I studied to be a therapist in college. Really? Yeah, so I was going to be a recreational therapist, but I still had to do all the therapy classes.

Right. And then... What drew you to that? You know, I wanted to work with at-risk youth. I loved, like, I was going to college in Utah, and they have a lot of treatment centers where, like, they do rehabilitation for ask at-risk youth, either for drugs or for, like, anorexia or any sort of mental disorders. And I worked at one of them, and I loved it.

And I loved working with teenagers, which is, I guess, a rare thing. Rare, it's hard to work with teenagers. It's hard. Yeah. Something about the teenage brain. I really understand, though. Maybe I'm stuck there. But I just feel like I always had a way to like, I could reach these teenagers,

almost more than I can reach like kids even or adults. Like I just, I understand their minds. And so I loved that. And anyways, was studying to do that when my little mind decided to be a violinist again. How do you make that pivot? Do you wake up one morning and say, oh, now violin, no more therapy? No, I finished my degree. It was like, it was in the middle of that process of when I was making the violin fun.

I decided not to study it in school, made it fun again. And then I started to write music. And then suddenly all my free time, I was like being a violinist when that's what I had chosen not to study. So I finished school. I got my degree. I guess I could be a therapist. But I'm not licensed. So, but yeah, no, I just started doing it more and more.

And like it was almost like I was standing on these two lines that were going farther and farther apart, straddling them. And I graduated just in time and then jumped full time to like, all right. You had to make the choice. I had to make the choice, and I chose violining. I noticed earlier you said a professional violinist came up to, and you said it as if you're not one. I know. That's the funny thing about imposter syndrome is like the thought that in my mind, classical is the, you know, it's the nuance. It's the ballet of the violin world.

And so when someone comes up and says they're a professional violinist, automatically I assume she's a classical player. And I once was a classical player, I don't pretend to be one anymore. I've, you know, really sidestepped that in such a way that I, and I respect it so much that I'm like, yeah, I'm not there anymore. My chops are not that. I play the violin upside down on a hoop rather than play concertos. And that's not professional in your eyes. It is professional in my eyes. It's just a different category.

Okay. And it just makes me feel intimidated when I'm like, oh, but like, this girl could probably play circles around me if we were standing there. But if we're not standing, I could play circles actually around her. But. Exactly. I think it's, the, the. world has been so rigid for so long that I think we're now beginning to celebrate people who are stepping outside of their comfort zones or even out of their like career comfort zones.

So for example, for me as a doctor, to be on social media was very frowned upon when I first started. They were like, that's only what people do who sell out. And I'm like, well, no, there's a way to do it that's not in the way where people sell out. You could use the same tactics of being funny, relatable, but also to educate. and in your world you're like there's a great way to play the violin and master the classics but there's a way to also do it in a unique way that people also enjoy to see for sure and I need to and I do have to like remind myself that sometimes be like it's fine you have your own lane

and that is just as valuable as any other lane you know well because art like what is the definition of what's your definition of art there is none I think that art is so subjective and that's why it's so fun when you you know and I think that that's actually one of the helpful things in realizing that like if someone's being a hater on your craft or your art to be like, well, I don't like everything. Art is so subjective. So why should I expect everyone to like me, you know, as a person, as an artist, like in anything? It's just like, yeah, art is so subjective. And that is, I think what makes it beautiful is there is really no definition of it. Yeah. I think that subjectivity is a good reminder of why

cognitive flexibility is so valuable of being flexible in your mindset of saying there's negativity but there's also positivity yeah there is this way I can approach it or this way and the more you can kind of zoom out of your current situation the more you're going to be successful at different avenues that you choose to pursue and I think about art like you walk into the museums here in New York some of them have these classical portraits with old school supplies where you're like wow, art. But then there's also some modern interpretation of art that I'm like, wow, very different style, how this was performed means something to somebody. And that's really just their interpretation of what art is. Whether you like it or not, it's your choice.

Right. And with the amount of people celebrating you, not just on social media, but at your shows, it's clear that people are enjoying it. Yes. And I always remind myself of that too. like everybody has their different reasons for why they do their art and you know for the time I was a kid I just wanted to make people smile and I remember the very first time I wrote a little rock song and I performed it and I had only ever played classical up to that point and I remember performing it and seeing people smile not just being impressed by what I did and like oh wow you know but which felt nice and that's okay is great and but like I said like I've always wanted to make people like laugh or smile and to see people like this is fun and unique and kind of

weird like you know like hitting their neighbor and it was just this new feeling of like oh this is this is what i want to do i want to make people smile with amex platinum access to exclusive amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot track side so being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime that's the powerful backing of amex pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race terms and conditions apply learn more at mx dot ca slash y anx Nox is an eight-episode Hulu original limited series that blends gripping pacing with emotional complexity, offering a dramatized look as it revisits the wrongful conviction of Amanda Knox for the tragic murder of Meredith Kircher and the relentless media storm that followed. The twisted tale of Amanda Knox is now streaming only on Disney Plus.

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timbits. With 800 points after registration, activation, and first purchase of a dollar or more. See the Tim's app for details at participating in restaurants in Canada for a limited time. Yeah. The idea of having the setbacks that you've mentioned, has there ever been one? one where you felt like it was a setback, but ultimately it ended up being one of the reasons for why you're so successful now. Oh, 1,000 percent. I mean, I think the most obvious, biggest one of my career was like, and it was hard because it was the first time I ever really put

myself out there. So I didn't have any of the evidence behind me of like, ah, it's fine. You know, haters be haters. I had no evidence to say otherwise. But when I was, you know, just starting out, I actually went on America's Got Talent. And I was so excited. I made it past the first few rounds. And then when I got to the quarterfinals, you know, this whole art of dancing and playing was pretty new to me. And I did not kill it. Like, I did not perform that great.

You know, and I got the whole X. They told me a lot of really mean comments. And I was devastated to say the least. What was the mean comment? I know you remember it. Oh, I do. I do. Piers Morgan told me I sounded like a bunch of rats being strangled.

That's pretty harsh. I mean, you sure he wasn't talking about himself? You know what? It's always, it's a mirror. right so there's to you peers Morgan um but yeah it was it was devastating to say the least because you know I had thought that this was going to be my make or break moment and I was like well obviously it was my break you know I didn't it was or no yeah it was the break in the moment in the moment and um I just was so the best word is humiliated like everybody I knew was watching there were 10 or 12

million viewers watching that night and all of my friends were part of that all of my family and I was just like, how, like, I need to move countries and develop a whole new social circle. I'm so embarrassed. And also, I'm never getting on a stage again. That was so horrible. But I really do think that we have, like, different voices. There's our mind, and our mind is always trying to protect you. It wants to keep you safe.

It's like, that was humiliating. We're not doing that again. We're going to, I'm helping you. Then there's your, like, heart and your spirit, which is a lot quieter, but I think it's a much truer compass. And my heart wouldn't let it go. It was just like, no, no, no, no, no. There's more for you here. there's more for you. Do not, do not give up. And so after, like, I had a little bit of time to be

embarrassed and, like, just kind of take my time to not perform for a little bit, my heart wouldn't give up. And so I was like, all right, we're going to try again. I'm going to listen. And so I started, you know, my plan W was finally what worked, but I just kept trying different things and kept putting myself out there. And honestly, I'm so, so grateful for that experience because it taught me in a big way that the people that succeed in life or this industry or whatever you're doing are the people that get up from the falls like everybody's going to be pushed down multiple times and it's almost like we're all in this room and everybody's just being pushed over and finally the last few people that are standing are the ones that kept getting up and they're the ones that make it and that wasn't

the last time I got pushed down that was far from you know even the first time but it was the big one that I think I had to make it over in order to in hindsight being able to look back at it now and be like well I made it through that so I can and there's the practical implications that let's say you would have won you would have been stuck in contracts right a hundred percent most people don't think about that with these shows I know well you don't know any better also I was so like so desperate to be like have a chance and so they sent you the paperwork you sign is like a book really and like I didn't have a lawyer like the legal jargon was so confusing and they they handed to you in a dressing room And so you're just kind of like, okay, so you sign, basically you sign all your rights to, like, all your craft away.

Because you're like, this is my opportunity. Yeah. And so it's like, what are you going to do, start negotiating? Yeah, well, let me call my mom. My mom's going to talk you through this. Because, yeah, none of us have lawyers. And so, yeah, it's like, thank heavens I didn't win. And also one of my favorite things that years later, took me years to kind of learn this lesson.

But so many people always still comment. They're like, oh, the judges were so wrong about her. They were so wrong about you. And it's like, well, they didn't have to be mean. But like, honestly, when you look back at that performance, like, I really wasn't that good. It was a new craft. I was so nervous. I'd never had that kind of a experience to be in front of that crowd.

So, like, I really didn't kill it. They weren't wrong. You're being charitable. But because they missed the potential. They missed the potential. But that's the thing is a lot of times you can't expect very many people to catch potential. Well, definitely not Pierce Morgan. Not Pierce Morgan.

He doesn't have potential in the back. Yeah. No chance. there but it taught me that sometimes like in life you aren't good enough yet like I really wasn't good enough for that stage but the most important word is yet like I could take it and I could be like yeah I just didn't pass or you can be like all right I'm going to work a little harder I'm going to work a little longer I'm going to hone this craft and America's got talent since has invited me back as a guest performer to like you know be there a mentor and it's been a really cool experience because

now I'm ready for that stage I am yet I made it I've honed the craft I've practiced and I I've deserved that spot now. So I don't know. I think that was one of the bigger lessons I learned is that sometimes, like, no one moment of your life should ever define who you are in the future. That was just you in that moment. Yeah, it's hard to see that in the moment, though. Oh, for sure.

What would you say, like, day after America's got talent, day after Pierce Morgan, you're in the room with yourself. What are you saying? I would just give myself the biggest hug and be like, girl, just. keep going like that's i wouldn't want to spoil it i wouldn't want to tell or anything because i i think so be sad do your thing but cry about it feel all the feels but like you are going to be just fine and i think that's the lesson that like we all can tell ourselves at any point in time because life always it'll always work itself out no matter how devastating that disappointment or that

breakup or whatever it is it's like you will heal your heart will be fine and like just just keep going how did you get this level of i don't want to say adultness because I can't think of a great word, but this maturity of understanding of how life works and how to manage these very difficult situations. Like, where does this come from? It comes from the big falls, honestly. It comes from the devastating moments of realizing that like whether it's like on the bathroom and the America's got talent backstage floor, you know, like I was crying on that floor. It's like looking back at that girl and being like, well, she made it out of it. And I wasn't super wise then. I just knew enough to put one foot in front

of the other and keep trying, you know, or even like the part of myself that got driven to therapy for the very first time, you know, that part of yourself that's like at the lowest, but somehow got out of it. And every time you go through that cycle of being knocked down, you get a little bit wiser, get a little bit stronger. And then you've got kind of like you were saying, it's that past success that teaches you, you can do it in the future. You get a little bit quicker every time at getting up from these falls. Yeah. Do you ever look back on moments of your childhood where you had similar experiences. I have read a situation of where you really own the definition or own the character of being a pirate. Oh, yeah. Tell us about that. Right. Yeah, I feel like

I had some really tough lessons taught super early of like, you got to be resilient, girl. You just got to own your weird. When I was, I think in first grade, my parents realized I had some like eye problems and one of my eyes was like not working as hard as the other eye and they're really worried about it so guess what the patch the eye patch went on and I had to go to school and wear this eye patch and as you know kids can you know kids are great devastating they can be devastating but I remember just being like you know what I'm a pirate I you know and I've always kind of had this like fascination and love for pirates probably ever since then I think since then I think I like leaned in and was like we love pirates I'm a I'm a freaking

pirate stuck in a kid's suburban backyard right now, you know. But, um, but I really think that those moments of stepping up and also my dad and my, my mom, both of them were so, like, creative and so supportive. And I love, I say this with the most amount of love. My dad was just a little bit weird and he owned it. And seeing his example of like, you know, you can be a little different than everybody else. And that's magical. You know, gave me the courage as a young kid to like, be like, right, this eyepatch wouldn't be my choice, but I'm going to own it. And I'm going to be a pirate. And how do the kids react to that confidence? You know, that's, I think, how you find your truest friends. Like, I was not the most popular kid in first grade, but I had two friends that stuck

by me and, you know, owned it with me and they didn't care. You had the pirate squad. And I had my squad and my pirate squad. They didn't start wearing eyepatches as much as I would have loved, but they didn't get the little pirate sitting on their shoulder. Right. One of them gets a hook. One gets a parent, we're like, we're a squat. That would have been great if I'd got them. That would have been a good Halloween picture. That would be great. There is a picture of me as a kid somewhere with the iPad, like with a pirate hat on in my backyard, just being like, yes. You know what I noticed growing up in Brooklyn in watching myself or other kids get teased? Those kids who were being teased and yet had confidence to own whatever thing that they were doing that someone found odd or weird

didn't get teased as often. Yeah. It's like the antidote to being teased is just to own whatever it is that is different about you. A hundred percent. How weird is that? Right. Well, as adults, I think we all like get to a point where we just admire people that are brave enough to be unique. Yeah.

You know, like, we've grown up from teasing them and now like you see people being brave, but you hear the phrase all the time like, I could never do that. I could never get away with that, you know, but it's like, yes, you could. Yeah. If you just walk in the room. You have to choose it. Confidently in that outfit or that dress or that, with that, you know, persona. Like, you have to choose it.

And yeah, it does, it is interesting. though that I know I think that that's what helps you develop a personality personally is those moments in like elementary school or junior high when you just have to be like I'm going to own who I am regardless of what the other people think yeah you have to ultimately learn who you are and what you like and part of even like social media success everyone wants to be a YouTuber or content creator these days my number one advice of them is go do something in the world whatever it is you choose to do yeah so that you could bring it to social media, as opposed to just becoming famous to become famous.

Yeah. And then it becomes a really sad and isolated world where if someone throws negative critique your way, you can't really back it up with anything. Because if someone says something about you and you lean back on your successes of my shows or how you went over those shows or how you got knocked down and got back up, you have evidence against that. Right. But if someone says, oh, you're famous for no reason and you're famous for no reason, that can be

hard on a mindset. So having some of those experiences, I think, brings so much value. A hundred percent. Do people ever come up to you and say, like, oh, how do I get popular like you? Oh, all the time. I probably get that asked every day. Like, I do a question and answer at my meeting green. I probably get asked that almost every day. Yeah, and honestly, my you're like, don't do it. My advice is run. Yeah, don't do it. No, it's similar to what you said. I always just tell them, I'm like, honestly, you have to get up over and over and over again. You just got to keep doing it whatever your craft is do you spend a lot of time on social media watching other people stuff not a ton no yeah i go through phases if i'm like in like research mode of like oh

what's happening inspo inspo what are the kids doing you know what those gen zers what are they up to um yeah so i do a lot of like inspo searching but i don't what what app do you do that honestly usually ticotok you know the the most toxic of all apps is where i is where i go But yeah, usually for homework more so than like consumption. Got it. I do the same. And it's funny that people who are wildly successful on social media are usually not users of social media themselves. Or at least phase out of being users and then just come back for the inspo of it all.

I think when you have to spend so much time thinking about content, the last thing you want to do is consume it. Yeah, your relationship changes with it. Yeah, it's a little bit of a work. It's like, all right. My dancers, though, they keep me young and they'll send me all the funny things that I need to be aware of. They'll keep me abreast of all of it. My little chickens.

What was the last fun video you saw that stands out to? Or that you shared with your friends? The last fun video. I am loving the Olympics content. Right. Like, I am so here. I am loving this Olympic season. It's just been really extra magical, at least for me.

It's been probably the most social Olympics it's been ever. Yes. And I'm, I think my favorite new person on the internet is Alona Maher. I think she's the rugby, like, captain of the Olympic team. And she is so funny. But her behind the scenes content of the Olympics has just been so fun. And she was talking about going to the Olympic Village and how excited she is, but she was calling it the villa as if it was Love Island.

Anyway, she's just, she's very clever. And I just enjoy, I think the reason she's my favorite is because she talks so much about body image. And she's a woman that she's like, my whole life I've been concerned. considered overweight and you know but she's like I'm just a I'm just a large girl and now I'm an Olympic medalist rugby players so ladies like you can be any shape and size and be fit you anyways I just love her right your connection to music is very clear what's been your connection with medicine with hospitals good relationship bad relationship in between

medicine um I say medicine like health care health care um i actually i do have a relationship with health care i actually have a charity um that i have started over the last probably five years um where i help pay people's medical bills and help people get out of medical debt um and that's sad that we live in a country where that needs to happen right yeah our medical system makes me sad a lot of times i watched my dad go through it um he passed away from cancer a few years ago um and then my my best friend passed away from cancer as well but watching them go through the process and the fear and seeing that the medical bills weighed so heavily as part of that. And like, I don't know. And then just knowing so many people

that go through this process, it just became something really important to me to help. And, you know, I'm very interested in policy change and like starting to get into that world of like just helping advocate for clearer lines, clearer. Ending surprise billing. Yes. Yes. The surprise billing ending that. Yeah. The lack of transparency is really gross. I also lost my mom to cancer while I was actually going through medical school. So I understand the difficulty that comes with it. What was your journey like in losing your father? Oh, it was hard. You know, cancer can be so cruel because it takes people slowly and that was very much my experience. And so, you know, I can just say it was really hard to like lose him slowly. And my family

banned together through it all. I think that is one of the, maybe tiny silver linings of the situation and you know and just realizing I had this moment of beauty right at the very end like because I was so angry for so long and then as he was passing away I'm going to cry just forewarning as he was passing away my sisters and my mom and I were all around his hospital bed and just like holding his hand and he hadn't been able to like communicate for a few days but we were like maybe he can still hear us so we decided to start telling stories, like our favorite stories of my dad. And before you know, we were like laughing and we were crying. And this overwhelming feeling of like gratitude came over me for the

first time in like a long time because I was like, wow, even stronger than being angry at what I was losing. I was so grateful for what I had. And that was this amazing father my whole life that taught me to love myself and to be free. And he was funny. And so, you know, and these are things that when someone's going and fighting through their life and losing their mind, you start to forget that that's who they really are. And so being able to like in that moment be so strongly reminded of oh, that's who my dad actually is not this sick version of himself that he's been for the last like year and a half. Anyways, it was really beautiful. You're literally describing what we just talked about of making the conscious choice of stepping away from the negativity and seeing for what you had

instead of what you've lost. Yeah. You know, your father was this person who, put the trade in you to be comfortable with being kooky and different and fun and that's one of your strengths now and that can't be taken away absolutely so that's that's a I appreciate you sharing that yeah that's always a hard start no why are you apologizing that's that's what's supposed to happen um you mentioned that during that journey there were issues financially that led to different decisions what happens in those moments well luckily I was in a space you know to be like, we don't need to worry about that. Do what kind of care you want to do.

But I just also know from the people we met in the hospitals, the friends we made through that experience in the waiting rooms. And I know that's definitely... That's a side of the world that most people aren't even aware of. Yes. Because if you're healthy and you don't see that, especially young. Yeah. So to see people that didn't have that option just broke my heart,

you know, because health care only allows for a very specific kind of treatment, not necessarily the treatment that's best for. for this person and so to realize that someone's getting a treatment that's not even good for their body but that's the one that the insurance will cover and they can't afford anything else you know so it just like really broke my heart that that's where the state of our medical bills and you know that's where it comes from and so that's why it wasn't even as much based on my personal experience it was more what I learned as we went through the experience you mentioned your family also bonded together over the loss and came together even in that moment are there any specific moments that

that you can share of how you came together and what that means for you now? Yeah, I mean, we've always been very close, but, you know, as adults, we've all moved pretty far. And so the experience of, like, having to lift each other up through a huge loss like that will always make you stronger. It's made us more empathetic towards each other. It's made us, you know, it's made us learn how to connect better as we now are far, you know, through that experience that taught us how we can better be there for each other. Yeah. Something that I've noticed with loved ones or even friends that have gone through similar times is you fight differently after moments like that. Do you experience that? Possibly. And I don't mean literally fight. I mean like

arguments take a different shape. Whereas before you would argue about these little things and now you're like, I'm letting this go. Right. Yeah. For sure. Perspective changes. Yeah. Politics. We don't need to get into it. No. It's true because it's like you realize what really matters in the world. And that's why health needs to be first and whatever you choose. That's why I'm very passionate about this podcast and hopes to give people that perspective so they can see from people like yourself of how important it is to think about your health and the ways that we do have control and then being comfortable with the ways where we don't always have control. Absolutely. When your investors, customers and workers demand more from your business, make it happen

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Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. Talk to me about control. What's been your relationship with control? I have a terrible relationship with control. I feel like I've gotten so much better as an adult, but my whole life, I dealt with control in very unhealthy ways. I didn't even realize it until I was in my 20s, like my early 20s. I learned that I was anorexic. which is a disease that comes from this need to have control over something in your life. And it was a very odd thing because I was actually studying to be a therapist for troubled teenage girls. I was working at a rehab facility where a lot of our girls were anorexic. And even with all of that data in front of me, it took me so long to realize that like, oh my gosh,

I'm completely being controlled by this thing that I think I got into because I was trying to control my life. and it now is controlling me. And, you know, the only way that I realized even that I had an issue, it wasn't any of the like, oh, I'm noticing I'm eating less or like any of the big signs. It wasn't any of that that taught it to me. It was suddenly just realizing I was miserable in my own life. I was so depressed.

I was so unhappy. I had no relationships anymore. Where did they all go? Like, and just kind of like working backwards finally and being like, where, like, what is it that took all? I've always been a very social person. I've always been, you know, I was always pretty happy, too. So to kind of be like, what happened?

And when did I get to this point and realizing it had been years leading up to this, like, culmination of this exploding in my life? And I think the real moment for me that made me want to change was, like, I was roommates in college with my sister. And we had, we were living in a house with six girls. And we were all very close, I thought. But one day, they were all laughing in the other room. And I was, like, laying on my bed. And I was just too depressed.

to even get out of bed to let go over and see what they were laughing about and also I was like I don't even think I would think it was funny you know because I don't have I'm just so sad and then my sister came bouncing into the room and she jumped on her bed and she opened up her books and started to study and I thought I wish she would tell me I wish she would tell me what they were laughing about in there and then I thought I don't remember the last time we laughed together I don't remember the last time we had a meaningful conversation what is she even going through in her life and it just made me suddenly realize I had given up everything in my life for who knows what. And anyways, finally I realized that it was an obsession with food. It was an obsession with weight. It was an avoidance of anything social that had to do with food. I would be like, oh, no, no, I'm not going because I'm not hungry. It basically sacrificed everything in my life to keep a disease, a secret, even to myself. But it was only through lots of conversations and going to therapy that I was able to realize that that was the root of, you know, I just went because I was sad. Right. And you're pointing it out of this need for control that you're describing. There are like three avenues of which people can suffer

with anorexia. We use the biopsychosocial model where sometimes it's biological in nature, where you have genetics playing a role. Psychological-wise, if you're anxious, depressed, all those factors can play a role. And then the social aspect is what's happening on social media these days with social comparison, people not liking your photos, writing mean comments, bullying. And it's so important to be able to not just automatically jump and assume that you know what a person's going through because they have a diagnosis. Right. But trying to understand how each one of those components plays a role in their life.

Absolutely. Did you see little bits of both, all three of those? Yes. I mean, I think the depression followed the anorexia. It was a chemical, like, lack of nutrition, depression. Sure. But I honestly, looking backwards, you know, everything's a lot clear. And I remember I have memories of being a child, being eight years old, and putting on a

snowsuit and feeling fat and, like, finding a belt to wrap around the snowsuit to give myself a little waistline, like, as an eight-year-old. Like, and that's just one of the many memories of this. Like, I remember feeling fat very, very young. and I think it is I think it was something at that point you were at a healthy weight oh yeah that's the thing I've always been very small and so no one has ever called me overweight it didn't come from that I think it came from partially control or perfectionism and I think also it's genetic I think that there have been you know other people in my family and that before they even knew

what this disease was like I think my grandma struggled with it her whole life but did never have the ability to get help for it and where did you go for when you realize you needed help was it family was it therapy was it medication all three you know my mom was my first therapist actually how did that work um you know i've always been really close with my mom and i would i remember starting to open up to her about how sad i was and how i just felt no energy and hadn't and she i think had figured out i was anorexic um and i remember one day talking to her and i was just like i just broke down. I was like, all I think about, all I have room to think about my brain is food. I'm like, I'm always thinking about my next meal and, you know, and my weight. And she just finally was like,

that's not normal, you know? And for the first time out loud, I said, I think I'm anorexic, because I'd studied it in school. Right. And so I just, I said it. And it, and interestingly enough, when I said it, it was almost like this weight got lifted off my shoulders because I know how to solve a problem, but I don't know how to figure out something that you don't know the root of it. Exactly. And but once I was like, I think I'm anorexic. Once you have the dartboard in front of you. Yes.

And also it felt true. You know, like as I said it, it was like, bing. Like my intuition was like, yes, finally, you've got it. And so it was terrifying. But the first step I took was I went to the, you know, the office at BYU. I was in school at the time. And I, you know, talked to one of the counselors. And I was like, I'm anorexic.

Is there any sort of program that, you know, can help? And she's like, there is. There's a group therapy. And so I went to group therapy, which was terrifying. I told all my roommates I was going to a study group, you know. It was a very secret thing for me. So the group was less terrifying more than what you were worried about other people would think about you going to the... I guess so. Yeah, I didn't tell anybody. I didn't tell anybody except my mom. And this group was very, very wonderful for me. Like hearing other people tell basically the same story that you feel crazy for feeling in your brain and being like, oh my gosh.

Like we all kind of think the same. We all have different roots. All have different roots. All have different reasons. I'll have different, whatever, but like the mindset that felt so insane once I started to dissect it. And I was like, I'm a crazy person. When did I become this? You realize, like, oh my gosh, like there's solidarity in this. Like, you feel the same way. And you don't, you don't seem crazy. You seem really nice and normal. Like, unfair how we judge ourselves and comparisons to others. A hundred percent. But like seeing it like that just made me feel for the first time safe to talk about it. And anyways, I went to individual therapy as well, but nothing, helped me as much as the group therapy.

Yeah, a lot of times it's the combination of multiple avenues of support. Yeah. Having a strong support system at home is one of the best things that matters for any kind of mental health condition. And what I've noticed in patients who struggle with anorexia is, as you said, getting a label for what has been bothering them for so long has been helpful. Although, on the flip side, as I've talked about this on social media, there's people who dislike the idea of a label.

So I'm curious of how you think about this. You mentioned that multiple times in telling the story that you're quote unquote an anorexic or you were at the time. Some people don't want to be referred to as that. They say, I'm a person who has anorexia. Do you see a distinction between the two and how do you feel about it?

I do. I don't like to ever be, I don't like to ever say I am like depressed or I am an anorexic, but I did struggle with anorexia, you know, and I wouldn't be offended if someone referred to me like that. You know, they use your jargon. I'll use mine. But I do think it's important to make a little bit of a distinction because that is not my defining characteristic. You know what I mean? And I can totally see why someone else wouldn't want that

to be the way that the world sees them as, oh, you're a diagnosis. Like, no, like, you should never be your diagnosis. You should never be a cancer patient. You're someone who has cancer because we're all so much bigger than that. It's a piece of you. And also, also it's a piece of me that will always be a part of me at this point. And I think that was the most, that was the thing I hated the most when I got diagnosed with anorexia is I actually did a lot of research. I started reading books. I was like, I'm going to beat this thing. And I was so sad when I was like, this is an incurable disease. Are you kidding me? Because I was so miserable and hated myself so much during this time. And I finally found the root of it and to be

like, oh, this is going to be with me forever. And I have now since learned to understand it that, okay, it's always going to be a little piece of my brain. And now I recognize it so fast when it tries to like come back and it rears its little head and it tries to tell me something that I'm like, at this point, I've heard it so many times. I know you're a lie. I know you're not true. And I don't subscribe to you anymore.

You can leave. You know, and that once upon time was a very dysfunctional, hard relationship to have with something that existed in my own brain. But being able to separate from myself that and not be like, I am anorexia. It's like, no, that's Ed. called it Ed, my eating disorder. I even named it and those are Ed's thoughts. These are my thoughts. And making that distinction was really important for me to heal. And to this day, like I said, every time I start to feel it, try to come back. It usually tries to come back when I'm stressed

or when I feel a little bit out of control with my life. That's when it starts to try to come back in. But I like really don't entertain that anymore. And I'm in a great place with it and have been for years, but only from separating myself from it. Does the fact that Ed existed at one point and the fact that you're so popular on social media ever intertwined in a bad way? Honestly, no, I don't think that, like, being, you know, in the public eye has never exacerbated it in any way. Like, I don't think so because, honestly, the pull to be in that way of living and that way of, like, eating and all of those things restrictive was just as strong when nobody knew who I was, you know, and I really don't believe that. it started like the initial stimuli came from within you as opposed to outside yeah it was it was never somebody calling me like overweight that made me be like okay well you know and so honestly if

somebody comments on my way online that still that doesn't affect me i don't really care what you think about my body it all any of that always comes from inside of me and that's the battle i have to face um that's why it's so important on that bio psychosocial model like some people will have the opposite situation where they might feel good up until someone else starts and then it triggers a thought process. Interesting. That's why the therapies need to be so individualized. Yeah. And it sounds like you've had great success with therapy. And it seems like you advocate for it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it's so important to find the right therapist. Like some people like, therapy's not for me. But it's like, ooh, it took me a couple times. Right. To find, because I remember my

first therapist when I was anorexic and going in, he kept trying to find the root of the problem. And then I felt like I didn't deserve to be anorexic because no one ever made fun of me. Like no, you know, he's like, what about your parents? I'm like incredibly supportive, you know, like so he couldn't find the root. And I felt like he didn't know what to do with me. I found another therapist that didn't make me feel like that and had a different approach. You know, so I'm a huge advocate for therapy. It's taught me how to like process things in good patterns in my mind.

And anyway, so yeah, again, another evidence. I mean, it's like you study therapy. You know? Some would say. Because it's another evidence-based statement that when you are seeking out a first-time therapist, that the first session should just be a chemistry session to try and figure out your relatability with the person. And you mentioned that you have this unique ability to relate to a teenager as opposed to a younger child. So I need a teenage therapist.

Well, no, in the sense of like how you fit well with a teenager. Yeah. Let's say someone was wanting to talk to you in a certain way and they were a six-year-old, maybe you wouldn't vibe with them as well. That doesn't mean you're a bad person. It just means you relate better to a fit. So because that therapist didn't vibe with you, doesn't mean they're about therapists. 100%. It just the fit isn't right.

You move on and you try and keep fine. The only time where that becomes difficult is when someone doesn't have social support at home. And if their feeling of depression is so strong that they don't have the motivation to get out of bed to do those small steps of calling the phone numbers, that's where you really need help for medical providers. Yes. where you need a social worker to advocate on your behalf to help you find people who will get you an appointment earlier rather than later. And that's where I feel like our health system fails a lot. Yes. Yes. I'm also a big advocate of, and again, if you're super depressed, a lot of times you don't have the motivation to read a book. But I think that some of

the best therapy is like, you know, bibliotherapy. Like reading, finding books that speak to me and like kind of become like the beginning of my day. I read a little bit of this book. and then it's through your head through the whole day of like reminding yourself the way you want to think and the way you want to be and like a better option of how to how to exist. I'm a big fan of that. But also if you don't have the energy to read, podcasts. I am such a big believer in like I love almost more so than listening to music when I'm driving around.

I like to listen to positive podcasts that can uplift me, teach me about how my mind is working, teach me a little bit more about mental health. Here's somebody else's success story. Like I think that's great therapy that doesn't take a lot of energy. anyone can do and it's free. Yeah. What books did you read throughout your journey that were valuable? I think the most valuable one was Life Without Ed, which it taught me to separate myself.

This woman shares her experience of, you know, treating her eating disorder like a dysfunctional, like abusive relationship. And so she even, her therapist. Which is equally, if not more so, is hard, you know, to escape. Yes. Yeah, very relatable. Totally. And so she even set up a chair.

Her therapist had her put an empty chair in front of her, and she had her talk to her eating disorder. And then she continued this process herself. And then it stopped being a chair she was talking to, and they started being conversations that she just would immediately talk to in her own brain, where she'd started to recognize, that is Ed, this is me. And that's a lie, and that's cruel. And this, you know, so she started to, like, have these inner dialogues with herself. And that was the biggest game changer for me is learning to have this conversation and separate myself. from it. Intuitive eating was another great book that I read, learning, because I had to learn how to trust my body again. You know, I hadn't trusted it in years and had deprived it and had

to learn how to be full. And that book really helped me. I'm trying to remember what the other ones were, but those are the, also not even like eating disorder books, but I discovered Brené Brown at that time, you know, shame researcher. So much of any of these mental disorders, they are mental disorders they come from a place of shame and secrecy and you don't want to share it and you don't want to you know you're too afraid to go to therapy like learning to own that I don't have to be ashamed of this was a really powerful thing yeah the idea of people taking the chair and talking to another person or talking to the younger selves all those are really examples of that cognitive flexibility where when you're thinking about yourself

and you're emotionally reasoning your way through life, you're only thinking about it from a very biased standpoint. But when you're talking to someone else, or you're trying to imagine being in someone else's shoes, that takes you out of your current thinking pattern and allows you to experience what would life be like if I didn't think this way? Or how can I judge this if I was an outsider?

So frequently in my office, if a patient is judging themselves harshly during a moment where they should be sad, People have terrible things happen. They lose their parents. And they come in and they say, I must be depressed because I'm sad and I shouldn't be sad. I'll sit them down and I'll have them talk to either themselves or their friend

who also lost their parent. And they're so kind. And then I ask them, why are you being kind to your friend but not to yourself? And just leaving them with that question allows them to start thinking, wow, I am not being kind to myself. When we oftentimes, you know,

we always say the mind tries to protect itself. but there's also times the mind can be really mean to itself. 100%. I've also noticed that if stuff stays inside my brain, like lies pass through it very easily. Like I will, you know, I can say really cruel things or I can be really hard on myself or say lies to myself that like aren't valid.

But if you are journaling your thoughts or if you say them out loud, it's like the lie meter is a lot stronger of being like, that's actually like really not fair. like that's actually not true and I really notice it if I'm writing my thoughts or if I am like I think that's why like some of these other ways of expressing yourself are so important in therapy is like journaling or because you're just like you can see it you wrote it on a page and you're like that's actually really not valid at all yeah another evidence based strategy so keep going with those hit them out of the park today what role did your experience with this ed

situation play in creating your music you know it's been a really well i remember i wrote kind of a whole album inspired by this situation years later it was because when i was going through it i wasn't yet writing music but in my second album i wrote a song called shatter me and it was really cool to be able to personify my eating disorder by this perfect ballerina stuck in a snow globe and you know her perfect porcelain shell and it was being protected by the snow globe and it was like a just i'm a very visual person and i like storytelling and so you know part of the fun of being an instrumental artist for me is being able to tell a story through visuals and so it was really cool to see you know i thought this was a very niche specific story

but writing about this ballerina and making it pretty open-ended it's amazing to see what that's meant to fans and it's still one of my most popular songs you know 10 years later um because it could be personified for anyone to like everybody feels stuck in something and so sometimes even though these diseases or these mindsets, they make us feel so isolated and so alone, gosh, right about it. And suddenly everybody has their own story and their own version. And it's like, wow, we all really are just going through the same experiences most of the time, feeling so isolated and alone. And yet, the more we communicate, the more we bring people together, we realize we're so similar. We're so similar. I mean, you know, my girl, Bernay Brown, she talks about that all the time

of when you just open up a little bit and you give someone this little crack of your vulnerability, you'd be amazed how much oftentimes people will like open up and share theirs because we're all going through it. It's interesting how music has so much meaning to people. Like you look at when a famous musician passes the outcry of support of people that say the music changed me. The words meant something to me. And it could even be not what the musician intended. Yeah. Right?

It could have been there talking about their pain, but somehow it resonates with someone else. Do you ever listen to music and find yourself relating it to it? that way? Absolutely. Is there any music specifically? You know, I'm kind of a weirdo and I love like movie scores and like, you know, so like, um, I think the piece I've listened to more than anything is, um, Danny Elfman's, I think it's called Ice Dance and it's from Edward Cisorhands. Okay. And I just find it to be the most calming, it like makes me feel magical if I ever don't, because I think I'm magical. I think we're all very magical and I think we all forget it. So when I listen to that song, it reminds me that like, I'm magical. Everybody's magical.

And I don't know, it's like a very calming song to me. That's cool. And that's not what that was written about. It's Edward Cisorhands like sculpting an ice sculpture in that moment. But it means something. It means it's magic. The subjectivity of art. Absolutely.

What's your routine before you get on stage? What do you do? Okay. I have a very specific routine. Oh, okay. Let's go. I mean, I warm up. My dancers and I will.

Warm up. Vocal cords. Everything. Violining, yeah. Okay. So I'll warm up. I usually warm up for an hour every day. Practice for an hour.

And then my dancers and I will stretch together while listening to some like fun music to kind of get us like amped up. And then we actually all do breath work together. I'm a big proponent of breath work. And it's like a really cool thing. Like I started doing it and then I started inviting them in. And it's fun to do it as a team, you know, because it kind of just syncs us all together before we go out and like perform on stage and our energy is all like hopefully synced up. You get the hive mentality go. Absolutely.

My hive. Yeah. I usually call them my little chickens. I'm mama hen because they're so little and young. but there's also a fun visualization that sometimes we do after we've done our breath work where we kind of imagine our hearts and our hearts we imagine them starting to glow and get brighter and brighter and fill the room and then we imagine ourselves on stage and imagine this like ripple of like our heart energy going across the audience and all the way up to the back

and you know because I'm almost like you know what I want them to be enjoying what they hear I want them to be enjoying what they see but I also really hope that they feel all of our hearts because I think that's like a powerful energy that we do have the ability to like you know and that's scientific you can like send we all have an energy field of course so to visualize it being so big that they feel my energy all the way in the back

is something is a fun visualization I like to do before I go on stage that's really important because part of what people love in festivals is the feeling that you're connected to everyone that you escape outside of yourself and outside of your troubles and you're just kind of

one with the unit it's almost like in a negative way it could be like the crowd mentality but here it's in a positive life where you're all connected through the music through the art and you're just having a great time yeah i could see that striking the minds from like a psychological perspective in a really healing way yeah yeah so what's the future hold for you what should the sterling lights expect from you oh man what does the future hold um honestly i you know it's so crazy to think about i don't even know exactly what i'll be doing in like three years um but i feel like i'm just really learning to like live in my like current like i'm loving this tour so much and i feel like for so much in my career i was always like well what's after

this like what's next and you do have to think about that of course but also just really being so proud i worked for months to like get you know in years to train to be able to do the things i'm doing on this tour and you know and I worked for years to finish this album and I'm so grateful I'm not writing right now you know that's not my happy place touring is my happy place so right now I'm just so happy to be like kind of living in the fruits of the labors of what I worked so hard to be able to to physically and mentally like do um but yeah the future future I mean I hope to have Vegas residency someday so that's that's one nugget I'll drop but yeah other than that like what about a country or a place you'd like to perform you mentioned you are red rock but like

yeah i i love performing in europe we're going back to europe soon um i hope to do a lot i hope to do a lot of international festivals next year that's my answer okay well that's fun yeah is there a festival that you haven't gone to that you're like oh that's well we did lalapalooza in paris last year and it was so amazing it was so fun so i hope to do lalapalooza in south america and how do you do performing and managing content at the same time is this a team-based thing? Is it coming from your mind and then kind of spreading like your heart does amongst the audience? Yeah, I do have a guy on tour with me that's like he's my video content guy and he'll help me come up with ideas and kind of, you know, but honestly, most of the content

that I end up usually comes from here, you know, but also brainstorming is so helpful. So even if it's, you know, sometimes he'll give me an idea and, you know, it's hard for someone else to give you an idea for your own brand sometimes and you don't quite catch the vision. And so, but sometimes it's like the perfect seed to lead you to the next idea so like we'll have little brainstorms and like brainstorm up content ideas and thankfully i for years actually up until last year i've always edited all my own content and so i'm very grateful to have this this guy with me that edits my content now for socials i still edit all my own music videos just because i think it's really fun um but yeah as far as social media finally that's hard to give up control it's

that's the control part of me this has been a very good hard exercise to be like, you take it, you edit that one. Like, I'm such a, also I have a little editing heart. I love editing. I love editing. I minored in film. Oh. It's like a little piece of me. Therapy, film, music, you know, yeah.

Trying to, dance. Trying to dabble. So basically, when don't you become a doctor? Because that's clearly the next step. Heaven, never. Too much. Adolescent specialist. Yeah, I could be, I could be the fun one that comes in.

It's just like, how are you doing? We're checking in. Like, they have the, the children's one. What are they called? The life... Child life specialist. Childlife specialist.

My friend's a child life specialist. Oh, they have so much fun. Yeah. I'm like, do they have a teenage version of that? I could be a teenage child life specialist. That's fun. Okay. Where can people go to support you?

Well, right now, we're touring. We're bopping around the States. We'll be bopping around Europe soon, and then we'll be back bopping around the States for Christmas. So we're bopping everywhere. So I'll probably be coming near most people. Where do people learn about the tour? Um, they can go to my website, Lindsaystirling.com.

Wow. How did you get that? Actually, I had to buy it. I had to buy it. Did another Lindsay Sterling have it? Or someone just bought it? They were like, not giving it to you. No, it was another Lindsay Sterling and I had to buy it. Were they as cool, though? I mean, I'm sure they were as cool, but they didn't have as many followers. Fair. So I, I, so you out? So I outfollowed them, but I'm sure she's really cool. But it was unique. I've never met

anyone who spells their name the same way I do, you know, with like, with the eye. Anyways, so I was like, oh, it already exists. But yeah. That's number one. And then social media platforms, where do people follow you? At Lindsay Sterling. And I was just early enough to that game. I claimed it.

That was my... Everywhere. I claimed it everywhere. Yeah. And your favorite platform where you want people is TikTok. Honestly, actually, I'm an Instagram girl these days as far as posting. I mean, I post everywhere, but Instagram's become my favorite. Are you worried about the TikTok ban?

You know what? No. If it happens, it happens. I'm so... You're like there's enough social. media platforms. There's so many platforms. It's exhausting to post on all of them and keep up and they all act differently. And yeah, if it goes away, I think we're all going to be fine. Cool. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom and all your life experiences because I think it's

really valuable for people to hear it, not just from a doctor's perspective, but someone who's experienced all of these things, had the downfalls, had the upswings, had the pauses in life. And I think that's so valuable. So I thank you for sharing all that today. Oh, thank you. Thank you for all your really good questions. Off the fly. I'm so impressed. That's what we do. Oh, man, Lindsay was such a fun guest to have spoken to,

and I'm definitely impressed by her dedication to evidence-based mental health strategies. Speaking of mental health strategies, I highly recommend you check out my interview with psychologist Dr. Alima too about his dislike for better help and so many more interesting topics. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please give it five stars, as it helps support the growth of this podcast. and as always, stay happy and healthy.