The Checkup with Doctor Mike - The Toxicity of The Bachelor & Pageants - Hannah Brown

Episode Date: March 9, 2023

Watch the full interview with Hannah Brown on YouTube here: https://go.doctormikemedia.com/youtube/Hanah Hannah Brown is an anomaly. She began her life competing and often winning in beauty pageants across the southern United States. Then she was a contestant on the Bachelor. Then she was THE Bachelorette. Then she WON Dancing with the Stars. And just last week she WON Special Forces: World's Tough Test, on Fox, where she outlasted professional athletes like Dwight Howard in US Special Forces training. But like... how? I had to know how this beauty pageant queen has become unstoppable in the world of reality tv. What inside allows her to keep winning? How is it possible she can helicopter in to rigorous environments like a dancing contest or the military and defeat everyone in her path? What's especially impressive is that Hannah keeps winning these shows despite a countless number of health problems, from IBS to asthma, and yet she doesn't have a primary care physician to help mitigate these issues. Executive Producer and Host: Dr. Mike Varshavski Produced by Dan Owens and Sam Bowers Art by Caroline Weigum CONTACT: [e-mail]

I had a pageant director at age, like, 21, 22. He was like, when you get really animated, you get all these, like, all these lines. You kind of look like a bulldog. So we're going to have to get that fixed. So, yeah, there's a lot of that. Let's welcome Hannah Brown to the Checkup podcast. You may remember her from season 15 being the Bachelorette. In this podcast, we have a lot of comments.

conversation about her health. In fact, it's probably one of our most medical podcast conversations we've had to date. She also shares some really intimate stories about her mental health and some of the intense scrutiny and criticism she got as a pageant contestant. In fact, she actually said that the criticism she got during her pageant days was more rough than the treatment she got at the hands of U.S. Special Forces on the new Fox Show Special Forces. We talk all about that and more. Hope you enjoyed as much as I did. Let's get started with the checkup podcast. I know you're going to hate me right now, but Sam? Yes.

Not Sam. Oh my gosh. Sarah. I really need some. My lips are really parched. Okay. Because you, in my bag, or could you just bring my bag? Yeah.

Yeah. I've been talking all day long and probably not drinking enough water. So before we start, I don't want to like this is how I want to open it. I want to open it with you requesting. moisturizer for your lips. Oh my gosh. Then I sound like a diva. No, that's awesome. But I also, you know. It's relatable. It is. I mean, I don't want the crusty lips. Us regular people get crusty lips too. I was talking to my makeup artist this morning and I was like, oh my gosh, don't put that on my lips. Look, what's in my bag right now? Inhaler, I have asthma.

We can talk about that. Okay, yeah. I'm glad you carry it. Is it expired? Advil. Is it expired? No, because I was having, I can tell you about. this I had welcome to the checkup yeah I had a whole stint of like I couldn't breathe for two months recently it was after I don't know if I got COVID that I didn't have COVID um I had an asthma attack on the plane that's not a good place to get oh it was it was really scary and um yeah they had to like give me oxygen for like 20 minutes it was Did you have your pump? Yeah, I had. No, I did.

Did I have it? Yes, I did have it with me. Because it was, I was noticing I was having a hard time. I kept coughing. It was like this cough that wouldn't go away. And I'm sure everyone around you remained really calm seeing you cough. Well. I say that sarcastically because everyone's afraid of people coughing these days.

Exactly. I was like really embarrassed, but it happened. I don't know if you know why this happened, but as soon as we like got. It was like my ears popped. And when my ears popped, I coughed, I don't know, and then it triggered. But it was like, as all I remember, as we got into the air and like your ears, like, you know, when you get to a certain place, they popped. I coughed and then I could not get it under control. Whoa.

It was crazy. And that's never happened before. No. Were you wheezing? I had been constantly coughing for, like, this was like two months. I had to take my inhaler. I hadn't taken my inhaler in years. Last time I did when I was on The Bachelorette, I had bronchitis.

That was the last time that I'd really had to use it. Was that because all the men took your breath away? I wish. That was why, no. I was just like. You said, no, not really. No. But, yeah, I hadn't had any problems with asthma and forever.

And then it all got triggered. I used, like I almost used a whole thing of it. Yeah, so I would venture my guess, and I have to do the whole medical legal thing. I'm not becoming your doctor. I'm not diagnosing you because there's obviously a lot that would have needed to take place for me to make a proper diagnosis. But I don't think it was asthma-related what was going on. You don't.

What do you think it was? I don't, like the presentation and picture you paint is not an asthma attack picture. just coughing because it was just a cough well the symptom was coughing i'm thinking about what the trigger or starting point is like what's the cause of the cough so i'm thinking past the cough well the cough didn't start on the airplane that was like ongoing ongoing for like i said two two months basically yeah like that doesn't make sense for me from an asthmatic picture so something else was going on either like do you again i don't want to start diagnosing you on camera but uh do you ever have

issues with acid reflex okay you can probably tell me yes wait why okay this is something so weird actually this can sound i don't want it to sound but i'm already saying that doesn't just say it it's beautiful i can't so okay finish the sentence now that's what i said i'm like it's gonna sound weird so when I like take a sip of water okay there's a delay I always yeah and then I watched your assumptions video and you do some kind of unique throat movement thing yeah yeah what is that well when my my ear my ears always feel like there's like water or something in them and like pressure so when that starts to get like really out of control it like it's like the only way i can like itch it and so i just like with your finger i go i'll i'll just like open it up

and just go what's the what's the additional sound do like are you scratching it with here no i feel like i'm like vibrating it yes so i feel like you have a very unified airway more so What is that? So have you heard of the eustachian tube? Mm-mm. Okay, so there's a tube that connects your sinuses to your ear that acts as a pressure release valve. But that's a thing that pops when you're on an airplane going up and down. Because it's trying to equalize the pressure.

When it opens, it pops, and all of a sudden you have equalization. If not, your ear hurts a lot when going up, or your sinuses hurt real bad. So if, for whatever reason, that eustation tube is inflamed, allergies, viral and infection, bacterial infection, anatomical issue. That tube gets closed. There's no good pressure equalization. You start either getting sinus pressure or ear congestion. And a lot of people have this eustation tube dysfunction. And it's because of something that's underlying that's being undertreated. So like the treatment needs to go not at the eustation tube, but whatever's causing the eustation tube to be inflamed. Okay. What are some things that? Well, like I just said, the

allergies is one, viral infection, bacterial infection, or post-virus. inflammation. That happens on a lot, especially post-COVID. You start seeing a lot of, like, strong inflammatory response, even though the virus has gone. And that takes a little bit of time to clear. You know, my brother has really bad allergies, acid reflux, but I never really got tested for allergies when I was younger. But what about symptomatically? Like, do you get itchy, watery eyes, sneezy, hives? Okay. Do you have eczema? Yes, okay, I'm going to. Sorry, I like, this is great. Okay, this is my mystery thing. Okay. Oh, there's so many. Like, there's so many things that are interesting. Um, my legs break out or like get these red splotch. Okay, if it's like really cold outside or if I go on a run. And I know people like, you know, when the circulation is going, but mine's like different. Like itches like internally, not like my skin.

like inside it's just so bad to like the point like I'm like pretty tough but like to the point like I can't run anymore like it hurts so bad sometimes just going on a walk um and you'll see it like I have like like kind of like these weird like red spots all over my legs um and I don't know what it is and then it'll slowly go away as you warm up as I warm back up I do have Renaud's Could that be it? Yeah. So basically your body is having some sort of overreaction to the cold. Because normally what your body's supposed to do is it's supposed to shut off the blood vessels

that bring blood flow to your extremities, to your fingers, to your skin, because that's like an easy way for your body to lose heat. So in order to prevent that heat loss, it redirects the blood to go to the internal organs by closing off those blood vessels. if it overreacts to the cold, which was what happens in Raynoughts, it makes things turn blue, different colors, like people frequently had that in their hands when going outside. When I was on The Bachelor, Bachelorette, I had so many people, like, constantly concerned about my hands, because they would see that they were, like, purple at some points, because

we were in a lot of cold places, and it would be, like, my hand would be, like, by my face, and it's, like, this drastic different color. they're like I had so many like nurses like messaging me like hey I think like you have for noise you should like get that checked out but I didn't know that the like running I mean the itchiness like internal was um it could be related to that but then the the allergic component could be that as well and the reason I mentioned eczema allergies and asthma is because that's a triangle thing of a triad that happens in people who have all three that you're more likely to fall into that triad if you have one of those.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, we could talk about this all, like, I also have, like, poor circulation, so I didn't know that maybe that was part of it. And I had, I just went to the doctor. This past, like, two years ago, like, I, my body, like, just shut down on me.

I remember I was, like, trying to walk upstairs and, like, my legs wouldn't work. It was wild. That's really scary. it was really scary my um neighbor at the time like she was right there and she was like let me take you to the emergency right like let's i'm like i don't know what's going on like it just like could not feel my legs and i was having really bad ankle problems like it was hurting pretty bad and was seeing somebody for that and then i looked down at my legs and the same thing they were like

purple whoa and like um weird spots and so i took a picture of them and like you could like just just was not getting good circulation and I went to the emergency care and they were like I think you just have anxiety and I was like well I do but I took a picture and I sent it to my physical therapist and was like no like you definitely like there's something going on and just my like calf was like so tight that like he I mean I don't know uh like it had to cut off like the blood supply like it had gotten i don't that's what he thinks and anyway i had to like it finally got better but yeah it was so weird so that was like the first thing and maybe it's anxiety manifesting in my body sorry i'm like these are all the this is interesting the diagnosis i've given myself or other

people have thought and then i really was struggling with my mental health as well um but it was like my body was just like kind of like my like my arms and legs would like tingle really bad um like and then go like numb randomly and then we've got a lot of like women stuff that's going on too sure sounds like it's a lot it's a lot and it's like frustrating because i feel like everything's kind of there has to be something one of the things is controlling all the other things i feel like Do you have a good primary care doctor? No. That would help a lot.

I don't have a primary care doctor and I haven't for like this whole time things were going on. But I'm moving to Nashville next month and that is like number one on my list. Okay. I like it. I've gotten all these specialists because all this happened like really during COVID. And the way that I got to the first doctor, it was just like the first doctor was like, the first doctor was like. like, oh, you just need to get your nose done. You can't breathe properly.

Which I do have a deviated septum, but I don't know if that's like causing everything. I don't know. Maybe you can tell me. I think you're right to question the diagnosis. Yeah. So yeah, I've just been on a journey with doctors, but I also haven't got the primary care doctor. Yeah, I think you've gotten a lot of piecemeal diagnoses on like individual conditions, which may or may not be happening.

and at the same time may or may not be responsible for all your symptoms. So it's kind of like a partial look, and that's why a primary care doctor is so important that, for example, could anxiety cause some of the physical manifestations of the things you just described? Very possible. Like, it's not an incorrect thing to have on your list of potential causes. But it really should be one that would be a diagnosis of exclusion, meaning you need to exclude other things that you could potentially fix or could have.

ramifications if you don't fix before you jump to anxiety so I would do a little bit more of an investigation before just saying it's anxiety you're good because also you're not good because then the anxiety is still an issue causing these physical problems that should be addressed as well for sure yeah so it's been such a journey I'm still trying to figure it out I really haven't talked about some like some of this stuff ever but I'm I don't talk about it too much I think this is a great place too, because I feel like there is some missing link that we're still trying to, like, figure out. But I have been feeling a little bit better. I mean, that was a really hard time for a while. Well, it sounded like you had a lot going on, not just from a physical perspective, but also mental health as well. Yes, but I've always been pretty active and not being able to, like, work out the way that I did. That also was really hard. But, now like obviously I did this show and that really showed me I think that the show was so important for me for like my mental and physical health yeah let's set up the show for people so it yeah

tell me how you became a special forces superhero I have no idea um yeah so I did this experience in June this past year and we're in the middle of the Jordanian desert and um get put through a small taste of what our special forces kind of go through in their training. And it was one of the most difficult things I have done and hopefully we'll do. Okay. Both physically and mentally. And when I got the call for it, I was a little, actually very apprehensive of doing it just because my team kind of knew I was like struggling and physically and healing mentally for sure.

I was on the journey of that, but the physical stuff was still trying to figure out and had just gotten back into working out. So I was just like, oh, I'm a little nervous about doing this. But I talked to my therapist, my psychiatrist, my trainer, and they're like, no, I think you can do this. I think this will actually be good for you. Because I'd kind of gotten into that, not victim mentality,

but like I thought I was... I'm fragile. Yes, fragile. I just felt fragile. Like anything I do could like cause more damage while I'm still trying to figure out what's going on with me. But I ended up deciding that I thought it would be good for me to like help build back my confidence or just kind of put to test what I've been working on at least mentally. And it definitely did. Yeah?

mindset that like I can't do anything like I'll I'll get hurt or start feeling worse when you're put in those type of situations what did you feel happen after those situations where you had to test yourself um I mean a sense of like not even like sometimes like I was just really like zoned in the whole time um which I also like talked to my psychiatrist about of like I think when you have um a little bit of like PTSD from different like the way that I was just my background um I really handled the situation in a way that was kind of unlike some of the other people on the show of I was really locked in and my body felt like oh I've been here before. So for me I wouldn't I could have like I felt like I could have stayed like days longer.

Wow. but like I knew that was kind of like not that it's unhealthy but I I knew that there was something different going on inside my head versus like other people um but I was like huh why is this not affecting me the same way why am I not like super emotional I'm just like really like zoned in did you feel dissociated from the moment 1,000% okay yeah like I got back and I was like hmm uh I do this but I know that I also, now that I've gone to therapy, like realize that I kind of do that in certain situations. So it was really eye-opening and it's something now that I can work on and like understand

a little bit. But it helped me get through the course, I guess. Well, that's why it's true coping mechanism. And when you're doing that in your everyday life and you're disconnecting from your emotions, you're not just disconnecting from the negative ones. You're also disconnecting from the good ones. Because if you want to tone down the negativity in your life by toning down your emotions, you're also toning down your positivity at the same time.

One lever controls both. Yes. But in a situation where you're trying to survive in the water, handcuffed in a car or what have you, maybe it's okay to associate in a moment. Yeah. I do think I didn't have these crazy up and downs. I just kind of was like even kill the whole time. I didn't let like a victory like make me like, oh my God.

But I also didn't make like a failure or something really crazy. happening like affect me either so it worked for this now in regular life it's something that from that experience it opened my eyes up to huh do I do this in other situations and it's great I've now started like EMDR therapy and I think that's been a really a good tool for me right now I say tool weird because I say like, I don't know. I'm sorry. You said it normally. Okay.

Sometimes I think it's like southern the way I say it. Maybe. Yeah, so I've been doing that and it's kind of helped me with like connecting, learning how to connect with my body and motions and stuff. So that's been, I think. I think that's really powerful. Do you think that's your superpower why you stay winning in reality TV shows? Is it dissociating?

Yeah, I don't know. It's like, honestly, yes. You can't stop winning. No, I truly think that's why. Interesting. If people asked who are on the show with me and Dancing with the Star, they stay the same, I'm, like, so locked in. I don't, I was a little bit more, like, I was emotionally, like, unwell that whole time. I just gone through, like, crazy time.

I mean, I was on TV, on ABC, like, for a whole year, like, every Monday. During a time where people are watching. Yes. And I'm, like, I'm coming from Tuscaloosa, Alabama to Los Angeles and, like, It was just a complete juxtaposition, no prep. It just kind of happened. There was no warm up. You didn't stretch beforehand.

No. You're just like, all right. I'm like, what are. Go to the slam dunk contest. Yes. So. What's that like? That's got to be overwhelming.

It was, I mean, I've literally been processing it for the past like two years. That's like on the healing journey because like it's so wonderful in one breath. And then I think. we also are seeing it a lot and like um like now how TikTok is and like so the young people like when they're just like these normal people like doing their stuff on TikTok and then you blow up it's like saying young people like you're not part of young people I know but I feel like I've grown up in the past four years like at 24 I'm like oh baby Hannah like was our 23 when I did all this stuff and now I'm like oh gosh now now we actually know what's happening a little okay um

And you'll say the same thing in four years. For sure, for sure. But it's just a lot to handle. And I didn't know anybody that could really help me during that time. And then you take a step back and you're like, whoa, what just happened? So yeah, it was really tough. Who was your person during that time? Well, because I dissociate and isolate no one.

Oh, no. That's not healthy. No, it was not. I really isolate and, like, didn't know how to figure out what was going on. So you just soldiered on. Until I hit, like, rock bottom. And then it was like, okay, we need to, like, try some therapy and figure out how to, like, what keeps, what's the story that I keep going on in my head? If you could talk to yourself in that moment, would you have encouraged yourself to seek therapy before all of this happened, before rock bottom? One thousand percent. Why?

because I think that's a that was a lot that I was going through like I feel like you know you see you're you know I'm not even that it's not that long ago but like your younger self and you're like dang like you kind of grieve for the moments where you don't reach out or the moments that you you don't have somebody to really confide in and understand and so or just kind of give you that that place um just be like a safe place that really has no skin in the game at all and just just listening yeah objective voice yeah i totally wish i would have done that um and definitely needed it um even before that's why i made great tv uh so yes that was and and but now like found it and i'm like so grateful for it i think everybody should do

therapy. Yeah, I think what's what's powerful about therapy and kind of a misunderstanding that so many people have is they think it's just talking about your feelings, but there's the objective voice that carries a huge benefit. It's someone that's not having the same emotions you are that can allow you to bounce ideas off them. And then number two, the big one is you learn tools, your favorite word, of how to manage in certain situations, not necessarily life advice, but your own methods, whether or not they're helpful, in what ways they're not helpful, because a lot of people like to say something is all good or all bad, like disconnecting is bad. This is good. It's not that simple. It depends where and it depends your personality type, and especially in a situation where

you found yourself, which is the most unnatural of all scenarios. No human 50 years ago, maybe we can rewind even further, a hundred years ago, would find themselves in a situation with millions of people judging their actions. Yes. That just didn't exist. in the moment especially, with immediate feedback. Yes. Like movie stars in the 60s might get a letter of something that people didn't like about them, but you're getting bombarded with it on social media.

Yeah, I mean, especially, like, some of the reality shows, like have, like, this, you know, a huge following, and it can be, like, really cruel. Like, Bachelor Nation is great in some sense, but it also has this, like, dark side of people just don't forget. that you're a human being, and it's kind of known for that in a way. Isn't the pageant world quite similar to that?

Yes, I will say the Special Forces show, we get interrogated. It's actually like tonight. I don't know when this airs, but. Yeah, it will be today. And I was talking to my mom after, and I was like, they're really tough and scary, but honestly, I think a mean pageant girl would be worse. worse truly like pretty mean pageant girls are my worst nightmare. I hope you didn't say that to the special forces people that no I wouldn't because that wouldn't have boated well no but it's like that

would intimidate that intimidates me more than like a big guy yelling at me that's more intimidating a little tiny pageant girl because the judgmental nature of it yes okay um and just like your peers too I think and that's such a like subjective experience to be through and like you're always like you're changing yourself like it's it's you as a person you're kind of like getting judged on and then critiquing yourself a lot so yeah I think it also but it has helped me and prepared me for it wasn't the first time me being on TV was not the first time I had like people say mean things about the way I looked or about me as a person, like I was kind of,

there were moments where it didn't get to me at all. Some moments, it definitely did, like, certain things were true. Why certain things did and certain things did it? I think things that question, like, my character, um, both from like mistakes that I've made and through, um, just people like being misunderstood and being, on this now like more public space that the ones that question like me as a person like character was really hard sure because because you want to speak back to those people and you

can't what does it do and the more you do the more it makes it a bigger problem yeah and like I made truly I've made all my worst mistakes for everyone to see so like now I'm just kind of like an open book. I'm like, I've made mistakes. I've grown. I've changed. But that's also really hard when like the worst of yourself is being criticized. There's not, like, I truly have nothing that like, it's like in the closet.

So that makes it really difficult. And I've gone through a lot of like shame cycle stuff. Like we've worked, I've worked on that a lot. But it makes it really hard to have. people say things about you and then start questioning like, I know that's not true, but people think, think that's me. And then it's hard to like get out of that loop. It's a vicious circle and cycle. Being in social media, I see it happening to myself, to my friends that are in the space. I've dated people in the pageant world and I've seen the toxicity that comes

with it. Like, I didn't know because I was a doctor at the time and not really big on social media. And I would see it and I would just be mind-blown that this is happening behind the scenes. Whereas for the general public, you just feel like, oh, it's like flowery and beautiful. But it's nothing at all like that when you're on the inside. Oh, my gosh. It's the most scandalous thing I've ever experienced. I mean, there's some great, like, there's some great things, I think. I don't think it's all bad or good. Sure. but I mean some of the things that I was like that was just said to me now that I'm like older I'm like I cannot believe in the pageant world yes like what what was said I remember

I had one director of a pageant like for me to go on and compete at the state level um sent me a picture of another girl on email and said you need to look like this by March and I was already doing like everything I've always like had struggle was like I've never been like overweight but losing weight has always been like a real challenge for me to where like I'll eat nothing and it's still like how did you gain another pound like it doesn't make sense um but I'm learning I'm trying to bigger than that now sure um and that was just really hard because I would be like I'm trying so hard and then having somebody like still like critique or I I had I remember this like old man that did like was in the pageant scene would be like yeah you still need to work on that

that butt in the back of your thighs like I'm like just having a regular conversation and then they're like hard or yeah like you're so yeah like you're so pretty but if you just lose like 15 pounds like you definitely like you had you have this and it's like geez so those things are really hard and then of course like honestly most It's just about your looks. I had one one guy tell me, which I ended up, I don't really talk about this. I don't know why I'm telling everything. I have gotten like Botox in my forehead before, but it's because I had a pageant director at age like 21, 22, tell me that my face looked like a bulldog when I talked. So I needed to get that fix. And I'm sorry I'm laughing. No, but it's kind of

I'm laughing at the ridiculousness of the statement. He was like, when you get really animated, you get all these, like, all these lines. You kind of look like a bulldog. So we're going to have to get that fixed. And you're like, oh, my God. Actually, I kind of do. And, yeah, like, so, yeah, there's a lot of that. Well, anyone, I think, in their right mind would see the traumatizing nature of that.

Not only are you saying that to someone who's young. So they're more likely to be traumatized by it, but then you're also telling it to someone who's seeking approval and trying to open themselves up and be vulnerable and in their most vulnerable time, you're saying those things. Yeah. And you're supposed to be the trusted person that you're supposed to come to for advice. Yeah. So it's like the worst of all worlds. Yeah. I mean, like I said, I don't think I would have been even on the show The Bachelor if I wasn't hadn't like won Miss Alviamy USA.

So it all kind of like worked out. And I finally like accomplished that that there was like that goal. And actually it stopped competing because I realized like I can't do this anymore. Like just the constant never feeling like enough and kind of being told that too. It wasn't even just like a feeling. It was like. And it's not like they're telling you you're not enough because you're not trying hard enough or you're not practicing whatever thing that they want to do.

it's arbitrary goals of numbers on a scale where like they want you to not eat which is a unhealthy on its own and b might not cause the weight loss you want because your body goes into like a starvation mode and actually turns off your metabolism yes so it's like a fundamental misunderstanding of what you're trying to achieve and then yo yo-yo diets yes i think that's the biggest thing in pageants it's like the yo-yo dieting is so i mean i feel like most girls unless you were just like natural like a little bit naturally thinner they don't think i don't i can't speak but a lot of people it just it was such a yo-yo diet and then that catches up with you and course um but yeah but i did win when i i was my smallest but i had stopped doing it and

it was like everything started to like you know like i just naturally then i don't think i was as stressed because i wasn't having to compete for anything So, like, I naturally just kind of, like, found my rhythm. And then I, like, had a breakup and I ended up signing up for the pageant two weeks before it happened. And that's when I won. Not the times that I, like, spent all year. I won when I just, like, showed up. And I was like, I'm just going to do this.

Like, didn't have anybody come in and try to fix me and tell me what I need to work on. And I think that's what I tried to try to. I try to, like, tell girls, like, there's all these people that have these opinions of you, but then I think it gets in your head, and then you're trying to make yourself a different person. And when I was just myself, that's when you went. Yeah. Would you recommend against people entering pageants? I think it's really up to the individual girl.

I think for some people, it can be really great in some experiences. like are can be really beneficial um but just like when i finally found that time of like i can't do this anymore i think really having that sense of like self is really important doing those type of competitions of like what what's affecting you what's not having somebody you can be really open about like like having a support group right A support group, yeah. I think I did, but I just didn't know how to access that. Yeah, that's tough because if you look at the current psych literature that exists,

even there's a great book called, like, The Body Keeps the Score. These are, like, I know we talk about something called ACE, which are adverse childhood experiences as being something for younger children. I mean, these can easily be categorized as traumatic experiences that then have physical manifestations later down the line with skin color changes in cold weather and not being able to walk up steps. So it's not out of the question that this is happening as a direct result of that. And I'm not again tying it together. And that's just a little of the trauma. Like definitely that's one thing finally going to a psychiatrist and like therapy made me not feel like so um not just like

week but like something was wrong with me it's like oh like this all makes sense makes sense yes like oh if all this happened to you when you're like six years old and then you know some other thing like yeah like and you never speak of it ever yeah it's going you're going to have to deal with it at some point sure you're right the amount of times the body keeps the score has been recommended to me by everyone I'm like I know I know I got to read it um I mean I mean, there's TED Talks on the subject that I'm sure you can get as much. It was just funny because like literally like last week, I told, I was like, I know I've got like, it just keeps coming up.

Well, it's a mistake I actually make quite often with patients when I'm trying to explain that what they're experiencing is normal. And I don't think that's the right word for it. Because when they come in with a problem, like let's say they get splotchy skin in certain temperatures and I assume or make the diagnosis that it's based on the mental health cause because we ruled everything else out. And I say your mental health situation is based on something terrible that happened to you. Let's say last month. The parent died, a loved one died. And now you're grieving and you're going through a rough time. So your body's acting off. That's normal.

Like meaning now what's happening to you is okay. But things don't work well when there is a mental health trigger and if you're having a mental health trigger to something appropriate that's not a disorder and i feel like that gets lost these days when we talk about mental health and i see that a lot in adolescents that come to my practice that say they're depressed and i'll ask them what's going on to like oh my friend recently lost their life and i'm like you're sad you're grieving let's change the vocabulary around this because it sounds like you're saying to your brain that there's something wrong with you. But if I ask you, I just lost my mom and I'm sad, would you judge me for it?

No, never. Of course, you lost your mom. You should be sad. But why are you judging yourself? Because we hold ourselves to these ridiculous standards that are not normal. Yes. I actually recently was reading about like, because I've been diagnosed with anxiety, depression, PTSD.

They're kind of like, and like ADD, what is it? like the ADD depression and anxiety kind of form that triangle and like if you've had some trauma in the past it kind of they kind of loop together and I definitely talk about dealing with depression but at the same time I feel like I don't want depression to like be like my label of like oh I have depression I was like no like sometimes like sad things happen in life or like there's like even this move for me from L.A. to Nashville like it brings up emotions and that's okay and normal to be like feeling a little anxious and a little sad when something new is happening yeah and like I'm aware of that now I think because I've gone to therapy and have these

things I can't have a toolbox for how to deal with that and a barometer yes of like I'm like I really had a um actually like had like a series not a actual depression episode that I was going through this past um like winter like it just didn't it kind of made sense but it was just like it there's a difference yeah it became a disorder because it started affecting your life in ways that you couldn't control yes so once you lose the control and it starts impacting your daily life we call it major life duties work relationships etc yes that's one yeah and and i i was really struggling, but now I'm like, I don't like to say, like, oh, I have, I've dealt with depression, but I don't want to say, like, I'm depressed, because I'm not depressed.

Like, I'm feeling awesome. Okay. But I know how to mitigate the feelings. Yes. Yeah. And that can only come with experience and maybe some guidance, as you have, sounds like really good people around you. For sure. But I didn't have that before.

So it's really nice. Well, it's great that you're advocating for it for other things. important to me because being like in Alabama I didn't know anybody that went to therapy and like you went to therapy like if something like well nobody no nobody went to therapy and if you did you didn't talk about it I had one friend in college that like literally I found out she's going to therapy but she would drive an hour away to go to therapy for confidential yes and it just still like really stigmatized and so like now I just think it is It just helped me so much, and I don't want it to have this stigma that you have.

And also to go to therapy, like, you don't have to be going through something. Like, I think it's, I have a great relationship with my boyfriend. We still go to couple's therapy to just, like, it was important to me because I had my own issues with the relationships that, like, I thought we needed to have somebody, like, talk with us, but they're always like, y'all are awesome. They're like, you're our easiest, like, a couple to deal with or to listen to. Like, you are so great. You know how to communicate.

But it's also, we like, love it. Well, it's a preventive thing. Yes. You're going to get ahead of problems. Yes. And I think that's also important. It's great that you found a partner who's capable and wants to do that. I see a lot of people who are resistant to doing that, maybe from the stigma, maybe from the

preconceived notions of what's going to happen. And that's why a lot of like the intro to conversation to therapy, I try and do in my office of just explaining what to expect, what cognitive behavioral therapy is, explaining the basics of how we can't really control our feelings, but we can control our thoughts. And then thoughts can lead to feelings changing. That conversation alone really gives people a layer of control. And ultimately, I think that's what people want. Yeah.

Like we want, in general, if you ask people, they want to be able to feel sad. they want to be able to feel happy. They want to feel the range of emotions, but they don't want to be in one place for too long, and they want to have the control of when to move around in it. Absolutely. Like, do you see, sorry, I'm asking you a question. This is great.

Do you feel like you're, are you seeing a lot of, like, patients that you suggest that to, like more so than before? Before. Like, how often do you have to have that conversation? Yeah, I think what's interesting about, family medicine is that a lot of people will come in with a physical ailment and we end up having a mental health discussion. And that's something a lot of people don't expect. That's always

happened. But I think specifically over the last three years, there's been a huge, huge spike in loneliness, disconnect, and despite us being digitally connected, we're somehow physically and socially disconnected. And as a result, a lot of that support structure that we discussed about using is not there for people. A lot of the coping mechanisms over the last three years had to shift for people. Even for myself, something that I used to rely on as a coping mechanism was looking forward towards the future. So I would be working in an ICU setting, working crazy hours for a given month.

But it wouldn't affect me mentally, because I would say, oh, I'm looking forward to the trip that I have planned two months from now or the light. rotation I have coming up and because of the pandemic creating so much uncertainty and the disconnect from the fun things to do that my coping mechanism was taken away for me and that happened to a lot of people leading to spike in mental health conditions spike in substance abuse disorders and what's interesting is the sexes experience those symptoms of depression differently and there's some patterns that tend to emerge and men oftentimes would not come in with the same symptoms that we describe classically in depression of

not wanting to get out of bed, feeling lazy. Instead, they go opposite end of the spectrum and become hyper-masculinized. The toxic masculinity can come out, abuse, substance abuse, gambling, over-focus on getting rich, and therefore all the other relationships suffer. Yes. So all of this has changed in the last five years because of this unique, really, worldwide phenomenon that we're seeing whether it was lockdown related or pandemic related or losing loved ones related but it's definitely been an epidemic of massive proportions yeah it seems like and that's why i love talking about it because or i'm honored to like talk about my story

because i think there are so many people out there that are struggling and and could feel better but don't know what to do. Exactly. And social media ignites that fire. Oh, man, especially for young girls. Man, how do you feel being, like, I have a real problem with social media. Like, it kind of like,

and it's like my own thing I have to deal with, but I was not a social media person. Like, truly don't narrow my phone as most of the time. It's always dead. So when you, like, get your phone back because you don't have your phone on some of the shows and it's like, oh, we have two million followers. I was like, that was just like, that just happened.

Yeah. And I'm like, what do I do with this? And at first, like, I probably didn't understand like magnitude. Well, there was excitement probably as well. It was just like, whoa. But then I was also like, I don't even know how to use this. So it was funny. But I think that's also was the charm back then.

People were like, oh, like she's not trying to be like an influencer. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. But now I struggle with. posting sometimes because I've realized I don't want to, like, I don't know how to just say this, but like, I see the loop of social media and how it can be harmful. And I don't want to be a part of that. What's the loop? Can you describe to us the loop? I feel like the loop is you get on social media because you're trying to distract yourself first of all. And you get on social media and you see the picture perfect vacation,

vacation, or just even, and then even for me, it's like, oh my gosh, they're making so much content, that content's so good. Feeling, and then feeling worse about yourself, and then getting sucked into the hole to where, then you're not doing anything to better yourself. It's paralyzing. Yes.

And then you just, so then you're, then you want to get distracted from that feeling, and you start doing it again. And I don't want to be a part of that. And I also don't want to like fall victim to that. And it's so easy. And so I'm really trying. And I've also put limits on myself because I also think it can be really harsh.

And like I definitely have boundaries for myself. But sometimes I find myself not posting because I just like, I don't know. It just doesn't always feel good. to do it. Don't you feel over the last year, social media has become more transparent? Like, before it was, like, when Instagram first started up, let's say, five years ago, people would be just posting picturesque, perfect, hyper-edited photos. And that still exists, obviously.

There's a world for it. The filters are there. But now there's certain people going viral for just being themselves and, like, owning themselves. Yeah. And that's kind of new. I like that. And I think it's, um, Awesome. I think for me, I just don't know how to not keep up, but it's not something I'm

like super passionate about. Well, and that's okay. Like not everyone has to do. It's like saying you're not passionate about becoming a doctor. Okay. Yeah. Who's holding that against you? Yeah, but I think there is still this like pressure because everybody knew like everything in my life. And I think I've worked on it like putting limitations and boundaries of like what I share and what I don't but it's also such a tool for whatever else you want to do in your life so like i'm trying to find that balance but then i also like okay are you a good video editor like do you judge yourself for not being a very good at video editor no i just hire someone to do it so why are you not treating social media the same way yeah well no i'm asking because honestly i think authenticity is like

so key and nobody can run my social media better than I can sometimes. Does that make sense? I think if I had somebody that like helped me a little bit, but I could still, that I had a good rapport with and I could be myself, I need to find that. That can help with like, I don't, video editing will take me all day and it, it sucks the joy out of it. Like I can make a really good video and be like, okay, this is, this will be funny. But then when I have to edit it, I'm like, I hated this. Why did I just do this? And when you say like posting authentically and often is key, key for what?

What is your measure of success or like what do you want to gain from it? I think a community. Okay. So you enjoy having the community as well. I enjoy having the community because I want to take them along on what I'm doing because they kind of grown up with. There's people that have like kind of grown up with me and kind of the journey that I've been on.

because I started out in reality TV and in a dating trying to get married or whatever and like that obviously was not what's happened

and now I'm like in the first healthy relationship I've ever been in and I think that that's really cool for people to see my journey and like even just relationships, mental health body image

so many things and I want to be able to continue to do that. So I think social media is a great place to do that. But I also struggle with it. Yeah, a good potential strategy here is just to, in trying to accomplish what you want, all those goals,

the solution might be to forget about that when you post and just post whatever without any concern of how it lands. Yeah. Because then you'll check all those boxes by now, not doing anything and just, oh, this is what I'm up to. And yeah, I go through stages where I can do that. But like I said, I don't know where my, if I'm just being myself, I don't know where my phone is and it's probably dead.

That's how I could live with a flip phone for sure. Wow. Do you think you could? Not with my current world that I'm in business wise because I'm big into the analytics of it all and, you know, like that's my life now. Yeah. Like I don't get paid as a doctor anymore, basically. This is just your full time.

Yeah, this is my thing. But do you like that part? The doctor part? No. The social media part? Yeah. Well, yeah, because my, so I don't have a parasycial relationship with my viewers. I make educational content.

They want to watch that content. They don't really care about me. They like that I'm presenting it. They like the accuracy of it. They trust that. But they're really watching for the content. content. And because of that, it takes some of the pressure off of me of needing to perform. Because initially, I went viral or became popular for me. And that was really problematic.

And I also had to face some of the same obstacles that you did. So luckily, that's changed for me. And now it's about the information and putting out a good message and figuring out how to get the algorithm to share it. And it's become more fun because of it being that way. I think that's what I'm trying to shift more towards, but it's a hard thing to get out of. Yeah. But I've kind of separated myself from, and not like in a, oh, I'm better, but just like for my own mental health and where I want to continue to go. For protection purposes. Yeah, and trying to figure out how to show up in the way that I want to, and using social media as like a good, good thing.

Well, I see how you're showing up. You somehow ended up in the top four with a world champion soccer player, a Hall of Fame, not a Hall of Fame, a Super Bowl winning NFL player, and an All-Star basketball player and Hannah. Yeah. It's like, what? I don't know, but. You're like Dwight Howard, who? No. No.

I remember, like, showing up being like, oh, great. I called my boyfriend after, like, we met everyone. And I called him, and he was like, oh, shoot. Like, there's like, legit people, like, athletes. And I was like, yeah. And he's like, we'll just do the best you can. And you're like, I'm winning this. Yeah, but at first, like, he was like, everyone of my friends that know me when I would tell

him I'm doing the show, they're like, oh, you're going to crush it. I'm like, what do you mean? They're like, oh, yeah, you'll probably freak. can win. And I'm like, what? Like, no. And then I told him and he was like, oh, wow, that's, that's like hard competition, even though it's not even like a competition with other people. But it's hard not to like view yourself. Of course. Like Dwight Howard and then freaking Carly Lawrence beside you. And I'm like, I, I can jump rope. I don't know. Not even good. Like physically, nowhere compared.

But I think what my friends and family, like, seeing me that I learned about myself through the show is I'm just, like, really resilient and have, like, a lot of grit. You're a survivor. I'm a survivor. Yeah. Yeah. And all the things that have happened to me, for me that I've done, like, it's all, like, made me into this person who, like, when I do hit our bottom, when she hits the fan, when

I go through something unexpected, I somehow can. can like get back up. It may take me longer sometimes than others and I have to make space and give myself a way to to move on and move forward, but I can do it. And that is something that I'm proud of now. For sure. And it's something to be proud of. Yeah.

But speaking of shit hitting the fan and speaking of Carly, I heard you had a magical potion that you and Carly were basically on performance enhancing drugs On the show. Oh, my gosh. Yes. People listening are probably like, what? What? No.

So the living situation during Special Forces was horrible. It was. And the food I heard was delicious. The food was terrible. We slept on like a cot. Like even I could barely fit on. So like DeWi, he was just, I feel so bad for him. It was so small.

Our floor, the floor is this Jordanian desert sand. But the bathrooms were buckets with a piece of like plywood that went up to like your shoulder so you could see like from the top up and like right beside each other. And I already, do y'all talk like open about like I have already like really bad IBS constipation, have my whole life. I could tell you about that too. maybe this all connects but um really struggled with that um on the show on the always but on the show like I haven't put hospitalized because this before so this is not like a new thing but it kind of like

gets serious only sometimes and on the show I did could not go to the bathroom for like seven days and hadn't gone even before that so it was like a long time and I was starting like feel it it's very uncomfortable and the medic was like you're you have to go to the rest of you and i'm like it's it's so hard because first of all i would want to try but there are and i'm not exaggerating like 50 flies in the toilet that are on your private parts on your butt and you're trying to use the restroom and it's impossible so then like that's not when you were winning your pageant you did not think about this being a possibility in your future no never um and so he was like you have to start using nursery so like he was giving me he first started off

like giving me some like pills like stuff to take and then the thing that finally worked was this like syrup stuff and i finally went and like we were we're all so close at this point like it was celebrated Like, it was, I was scared, like, when the show would come out. Was that your happiest poop ever? Well, no, I've been more constipated. But in the desert? In the desert, it was really nice. But, like, I was so scared when the show came out.

I'm like, they're going to make, like, my story. My story is going to be about me shitting. It was that much of, like, a thing that was talked about. I'm like, this is going to be, like, what they show. They didn't. But, yeah, it was a whole thing. thing we had me and carly had a lot of the same we had that issue we had really bad um athletes feet but i don't know what you'd call it but um like my feet shed for like two weeks wow it was horrible

um yeah victory yeah i mean that's you you've overcome a lot i have and i don't mean in life i just in the show here too in life as well yeah um okay so are you ready to play the lightning round, which in our term here is called checking your reflexes. Okay, sure. Okay. It's going to be really serious and ask you questions and you have to be. First of all, do you think they should, who do you think would have won? Me or Dr. Drew, if I was on the show with you guys, if it was like doctor versus doctor.

Oh my gosh, you got to be the next doctor that's on there. I know. There's been conversations about the bachelor thing. I'm like, I don't think that's for me. But that I would do. Yes, you should totally do this. You've got to do it. I would do it.

I think I would do okay. It's just awesome. Maybe people can vote. Can they vote me in? Like the opposite of Survivor? No, we don't get no voting. Oh. That's good.

Did you, did someone recommend you for this? I don't know how, honestly. Well, it's because you're a winner in the dancing things with the stars. Probably they just wanted somebody from a big franchise. I mean, that makes sense. But. Well, if they need another doctor. I think they need another doctor.

All right. First question. Healthiest part of your body is? Oh, gosh. That's hard. You're like, there's not many. Yeah, I mean, I'm like, oh, no. What is healthy?

My eyes? Okay. Good vision? Good vision. No contacts? No, but I just went to the doctor to help with my vision a little bit, but it's still like I have 21. 2020 vision. It's more just a stigmatism. I have that too. Yeah, but that's the

closest, that's the best thing. Okay, great. Everything else has issues. One part of your body that you wish you could replace? Um, oh, my wrist. Why? Carbilt tunnel? Um, no, because I've broken them five times. Oh, so you just want like a new one from scratch? Just a new one. Okay. Yeah. That's fair. Falling on an outstretched hand? I'm assuming. Yes. Skiing? No, when I was little, went to the circus and then tried to be an acrobat and it's a whole thing.

That'll do it. Yeah. What's one thing that raised your blood pressure this week? I think maybe we almost didn't get the house that we wanted in Nashville and I was getting stressed because we moved in like if not that long and that just stressed me out. But then we did get it. So it's fine. Wow.

Okay. Isn't that funny? We're kind of going through the same process here. Dwight Howard asked you this question, but I'm going to ask you again because it sounds like you may have a change of heart. Would you rather go to jail for 10 days or do the special forces again? I think I'd rather go to jail. I still think that.

Okay. Wow. No, not rather. Not rather. I think, well. Wait, do you want to go to jail or do you want to do special forces again? I think jail would be. What's easier?

I think jail would be easier. So special force is harder Yeah Okay that makes sense Although I guess it depends Which jail I know but that's also the thing It's like

Am I gonna be at one where they like Maxim Security not Yeah I want to go to like Like A nice jail Okay I want to go to nice jail

The judge usually asks you that question The judge usually asks you that question Do you want to go to a nice jail Have you ever almost died Yes You want to tell us how Um, yeah, I, well, on this show, I almost died. Um, but I had a, I could have died. I had a tumor on my pancreas when I was young. It was a child, right? Yes. And so, I mean, that was really scary. And it all happened really fast. And like, it was malignant, but in case and it was able, like, to get it all out.

Yeah, but that was a really scary. And it was very obvious, like, I was getting sick. Like, my mom was like, there's something wrong. So it all kind of started, like, attacking or whatever really quickly and got super sick. It's actually, like, all the IBS stuff started happening. And then I was having some weird, like, I started my period, but then I never did again. But it was all during this time, I was having, like, all these issues. But because of that, they did.

MRI and then they saw oh wow okay so incidentally they found it all incidentally happened but i was having all these issues so i was sick so yeah that was probably like the closest of like oh like she's really sick and then i can't tell on the show thing because legally what do you mean of course you can no yeah this is a safe space no no there's just i mean you're you're put in like crazy situations and so everything needs to go like correctly but I was fine. I'm good. I'm here. That's why it's the last question, because we're so happy you're here and that you're continuing to crush in every competition series you've ever been put in. I know. I think I need to stop now, though. I have a good track. I have a good track record. Don't stop winning. But that's the thing. I don't, I just want to say on my tracker. I'm confident in you. If I was a betting man, I'm putting it on you. Well, thanks. Where can people go to learn more about what you? you're up to. Where do you want them to follow you? Instagram is probably the best place. It's the place that I'm like most likely going to show up on, you know, once. If the phone ever gets charged

and found. I'm there. Yeah, but that's where I like update everybody on my life, show my dog. He's really freaking cute. So you'll get more Wally updates maybe than Hannah updates, but they're great. That's amazing. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you for coming on the checkup. This was so great. Yay. Thank you. Awesome.