The Chris Cuomo Project - Back To 1864: How The Republican Abortion Strategy Is Unraveling
Episode Date: April 18, 2024Chris Cuomo scrutinizes the Republican party’s political strategies post-Roe v. Wade overturn, focusing on the recent controversial Arizona decision as a case study of the broader implications of th...e Dobbs ruling. He criticizes the GOP’s abortion focus, highlighting its misalignment with key societal issues and the inconsistencies in their pro-life arguments. Cuomo warns of significant political repercussions for the party, as their stance on reproductive rights faces growing public backlash, underscored by recent election outcomes. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Join Chris Ad-Free On Substack: http://thechriscuomoproject.substack.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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So the car rolls by, and here comes that yappy-ass dog chasing after, I guess, the tire, desperate
to get it. And all of us think, what is that dog thinking? What happens if it catches the car?
the car. Well, guess what? The right fringe of the Republican Party is the dog that has just caught the car that is called reproductive rights. The erasing of Roe and the emergence
of Dobbs as the new lack of national standard, respecting a woman's personal agency over her own body
is a big deal and falls squarely under the category
of my brother, you better be careful what you wish for.
I'm Chris Cuomo and welcome to the Chris Cuomo Show. for.
I'm Chris Cuomo and welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project and I am going to highlight, flag
and underline an issue that will absolutely matter in the presidential race and the Republicans
should have seen it coming.
So, the idea of why this issue matters has changed.
I was never a big abortion person when it came to politics.
I believe that the issue itself was somewhat manufactured
for political convenience and expedience as a distraction
from more important common concerns.
First point of bristling.
More important than human life?
You cur, you heartless man, non-Christian.
Okay, where does that concern come
once the kids through the shoot?
Where does it go?
Where are you on early education?
I've seen studies where it's bad.
Really?
Better nutrition, more attention in education
is a bad thing?
Shut up.
Where is the concern for a human being once it comes through the shoot
into a life that is filled with disadvantage? If that's the case, right? Shouldn't you know?
No, no. All life. All life. Really? Well, yes, that's my faith. Well, that's all it can be,
faith? Well, that's all it can be, right? Because it's not science. How's it not? What else can it be except human potential life at the moment of conception? That has never been the legal question.
The legal question is when is it a person under the law with rights attached thereto that is their right and privilege to exercise
without interference of the same. That's the legal question. And it's a real one because
look, you unfortunately may have to live this reality as I have. Someone you love gets to an
age and a stage where they can't make their own decisions anymore.
They can't exercise their rights
and their privileges and their wants.
And what happens?
Well, the law has evolved over time to recognize that.
And we have a very well-worn,
well-tested notion of competence.
And competence is a nice way of saying
whether or not you're still a person in there
as opposed to a bag of meat that may have a pulse,
maybe even look around,
looking like you're registering what's there,
maybe even speak, but you're not that person anymore.
You don't have that intelligence,
you don't have that sentience,
anymore. You don't have that intelligence. You don't have that sentience. You don't have that awareness that makes you a person
more than just a bunch of organs that are still functioning-ish. And
then decisions have to be made for you. And the law has proxies,
and the law has medical representatives, and the law has a
lot of different things where,
hey, that will in the last testament doesn't count.
That person was non-compassmentous.
That was not, they were not competent for that.
You've heard of this before.
Well, this is the concept.
When does that attach in the womb?
When should it?
Now, look, by my measure, it can't be the same test because then it wouldn't attach until the person's 18.
Oh, so this isn't such a novel question. No. Because when can you make a contract?
18. Age of majority, right? Unless you go through a very protracted, and cumbersome process of being emancipated, right?
18, can't rent a car till 25, why?
Because they don't think that you're smart enough
to figure out how to take care of the car.
You're not mature enough.
You're not enough of a person as far as they're concerned,
right?
So they have a policy in place.
18, 21, 25, we ascribe these standards
because we believe there are different levels
of existence fundamentally in terms of your ability
to make decisions and to be respected
as having certain rights and privileges.
So what does this mean in the womb?
Well, first, my problem with the question has always been
it's more about politics and science
because you've never really taken the time to study it.
And the idea that it is potential human life is obvious.
Marco Rubio, the Senator from Florida,
once said to me, well, what else could it be a cactus?
As if that were the end of the discussion.
It is for him, he's a Catholic, right?
That's his faith, whether he lives it or not,
whether he's a good example of it or not, I don't care.
That's for you to judge if you're a Florida voter.
That's not my place as a journalist
and it's not my interest as a human being.
I don't really give a shit what kind of person he is.
And I think it's a distraction to talk about it.
And I'm just saying it not to engage in it,
but to move it to the side.
That's not the analysis.
The analysis is, this is not a Christian law.
Okay?
I was raised Christian.
I was raised Catholic.
I choose to believe and have faith and tacitly accept
in the idea of the idea, the idea
that there is something bigger than us.
And that it comes with certain power and understanding
and influence on what we are and how we should be.
That's my choice.
I am not gonna put that choice on you.
And our society shouldn't either.
And I'll tell you why, my father chewed on this
like a kid on a Weetabix.
And he gave a famous speech in 1984
that you can look up at Notre Dame
where he talked about the combination
of being Catholic
and a public official.
Now the political analysis on the right is very simple. If you're a Catholic, then you should tell everybody
that you're Catholic and here's what you believe
and you should advocate for the same.
My father did not see it that way.
He said, this is a secular society.
Our religion is a law, so I will respect the legal standard.
And the legal standard was Roe.
Now the weakness in his argument was, but you can advocate for something other than the legal standard. And the legal standard was Roe. Now the weakness in his argument was,
but you can advocate for something other than Roe,
you advocate for changes in the law all the time,
and you're not doing that when it comes to this.
Which was really tantamount to him having to own
that what he was, was pro-choice.
Which is also what the law was,
but that was also his political thing.
Now he would say it's not that simple
because if it were about me and my wife,
we wouldn't exercise reproductive rights that way.
She wouldn't exercise her reproductive rights that way
because of our faith and our feelings.
Little complicated, complicated doesn't work in politics,
so that was always a struggle for him
in terms of gaining people's acceptance.
Now I don't have that problem
because I am not articulating a position for you
because I don't give a shit about your acceptance
of my position or idea.
What I'm trying to do is help you understand
and interpret what is happening around us.
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MUSIC Now, the dog that caught the car Your Good Times.
Now, the dog that caught the car being careful what you wish for is that Republicans have made this a boogeyman for a long time. Instead of talking about issues that are a function of common concern that matter more and need attention, they have dwelled on this as a culture war.
Some kind of proxy effect of figuring out which side are better people.
And the right are better people because they're pro-life,
which I guess means that anybody else is what, pro-death?
I don't see it as being just about abortion because once you've done what you've done,
which is taking away a woman's personal agency over her own body,
who knows where it goes and how it can be applied.
Slippery slope is what that's called in argument.
And we don't know where it goes now, but you've done it.
You said you wanted to do it.
You said the elections mattered because you'd need the judges to do it.
Everybody believed this bullshit Kool-Aid, that star a decisis is so powerful.
And I can't tell you how I feel about any issue.
I'd have to see the case.
Bullshit.
People who are picked by Republicans
are anti-reproductive rights.
And that's why they got on the bench,
just like Amy Coney Barrett, just like the other ones.
And they sure as shit were gonna get rid of Roe
as soon as they had a chance.
And they did.
And that's why the confirmation process for justices is bullshit and should change and both sides abuse it.
Judges, okay, should tell you where their politics are on things.
You should know.
And the idea that them not telling you
is some kind of bridge of transparency and fairness,
I think the opposite is true.
And in fact, even though it's very controversial
and people keep telling me to stop saying it
within my business, I feel the same way now about journalism.
It used to be that journalists don't tell you
what their position is on things
because that's not what they're there to do.
They're not there to influence your idea of preference
and to bias their reporting
by telling you how they think and feel.
Okay, but I think it's gotten more nuanced,
more complicated at least than that.
There's a difference between me saying
I'm only gonna talk about reproductive rights one way
because I only see them one way,
and letting you know what I think about reproductive rights
and then being fair, my coverage of the same,
which you may now accept more readily
because you know where I'm coming from.
And you don't have to be suspicious.
I think that's where we are in society today.
I think that you should err on the side of transparency.
That's why I tell you, Trump did me and by extension my family dirty.
He made life harder for them because it suited him in how to distract and deflect my criticism of him
in my reporting and in my analyses.
And I hold that against him.
And that alone would mean I wouldn't vote for the guy.
Now I tell you that not because I'm telling you to vote for him or against him.
That's your choice. Okay? I'm just telling not because I'm telling you to vote for him or against him. That's your choice.
Okay?
I'm just telling you where I'm coming from.
That's why I don't want to hear people saying, I must be getting it right, right?
Because there are people who think I'm a Trump supporter after what I just told you.
Okay?
I mean, just think about how crazy this culture is, how crazy our politics are, how siloed the thinking is, how tribal it is,
that they're going to say that I'm a Trump guy
when I just told you something
that no other journalist will tell you,
which is that I'm not.
You see what I'm saying?
So that's the kind of thinking and perversity
that created this abortion dynamic.
It's not just about abortion.
That's one decision.
There are other ones.
And once you start taking away somebody's right over their own body
by saying, well, but there's another person involved,
it gets messy. And now you have to deal with it.
And they got their ass kicked in the midterms.
Now you can look at the midterms and say, wait a minute,
it wound up in a deadlock.
How'd they get their ass kicked?
Cause it was supposed to be a red wave, that's why.
And a big reason why it wasn't was women and their allies.
Single women vote Democrat,
married women tend to break 50-50 to break Republican.
Why?
Several reasons.
One of them is women traditionally have voted
the way their husbands do and how they're told to.
Is that changing?
Yeah.
Is that good?
Yeah.
I don't think anybody should vote
because they're told to by a spouse.
Why else?
Well, they tend to be married and have families and have different kinds of concerns and economic
realities on them that go beyond their own personal political preferences, more worries
about their kids and safety and that than just personal safety and personal concerns
and personal wants.
And there are other reasons as well.
So they'd always said they wanted this and now they got it.
And it's gonna cost them politically
because they are the dog that caught the car.
Now it solids them up with evangelicals,
but evangelicals are significant in number,
but not in any way comparable to women, right?
Overall, just non-evangelical women, and evangelicals have just become another
special interest group. Why do I say that? Isn't that being a little bit negative or dismissive?
Yeah, and I'll tell you why. Same reason I feel differently about the following situation. So
about the following situation. So every mass organization that has control over kids
is going to have a certain percentage
of pedophiles in its ranks, okay?
Why?
Because it's the percentages of dealing with kids
and the kinds of people that gravitate
towards wanting to deal with kids.
I'm not saying that people who wanna work with kids
are pedophiles.
I'm saying that pedophiles like to get close to kids.
That's what I'm saying.
This is very different things.
My mom was a childhood education teacher, okay?
Believe me, I get it.
What I'm saying is, so that's true.
Why does it bother me more when it's the Catholic Church?
Well, I'm Catholic, but also because I believe that they should have a higher standard.
They're supposed to be about something bigger than themselves.
Okay?
That's how I feel about evangelicals.
Even more so, all they do is throw their faith in your face about how they got to live by
the good book and you're going to hell and all this judgment shit that they just don't apply to themselves or to their choice
structure over who should be leading us.
The way they've twisted themselves up to make Trump okay is embarrassing for people who
are supposed to have this sense of orthodoxy about morality.
Embarrassing.
And by the way, Trump doesn't even share
their ideology on it.
It was always an article of convenience with him
to create a constituency.
And they knew that and they went along with it anyway.
And now he's afraid of it because he knows it can beat him.
So he is changing.
The Arizona law comes out
because now it's state by state, right? And he doesn't
understand the law, he doesn't understand logic or philosophy or jurisprudence, so, you know,
of course he's going to keep fucking it up. And he's going to say, this is what everybody wanted was
state by state. That's not true. A majority of this country as a function of common concern is
in favor of reproductive rights and wanted a national standard.
Google it.
And you probably should have one.
Roe was not the best reasoned case of its kind.
It had weaknesses, the penumbra of rights,
the isolation of a right to privacy
that isn't specifically articulated.
Now, is there hypocrisy within that?
Yes, because while that is true,
Scalia had no problem reading a right
of an individual right to bear arms
into the Second Amendment
when it was not expressly articulated,
nor had it ever been found in jurisprudence
up to the point in which he found it.
Is there hypocrisy?
Yes, why?
Because Scalia, may he rest in peace,
for his genius, for his greatness,
was a human being with political preferences, who was a big gun guy. Shocker.
So, state by state is not what the people wanted. Trump is wrong, and I argue lying because I think
he knows that. He made a choice.
Now he's got to live with it and it could beat him.
But why?
Well, that's what the midterms taught us.
But this will be different because things have transpired
since the midterms that'll make people feel differently.
Maybe, maybe.
Reproductive rights is not a first, second
or third ticket item even among Democrats,
but it is higher.
And with independence, it is higher.
And with independents, it is higher than it usually is.
And they've never really had it to vote on before in a presidential election, with it being gone,
as opposed to the chance that it could be gone.
Those are very different things.
And politically, and when it comes to rights, taking away a
right is a very, very dangerous thing to do. Very dangerous. And you can say until
you're blue in the face, but what about the rights of the person in the belly?
People who are passionate about reproductive rights are just as likely
to reject that notion as they are to accept it. In fact, are just as likely to reject that notion
as they are to accept it. In fact, they're more likely to reject it because they
choose to believe the viability standard, that not all groups of cells in the
belly are the same, that there is a difference between a zygote, a fetus, and
a viable human being, human baby,
whatever words you want, fetus, I guess is the right word,
that there's a difference.
And it's a distinction with a difference
that matters legally and matters
in terms of making that decision.
That's why the Republicans added to their argument
against the other side to include what?
What's their big point?
When you talk about abortion,
what do they talk about constantly?
Late term abortion, right?
Look up how often late term abortions happen.
Look up the circumstances under which they happen.
This is an edge issue.
It is taking something that is a possibility, a once in a while and almost never, and making
it the main.
Why?
Political convenience.
It's a complete bullshit thing.
Now the Democrats, as they have this great ability to do, have made it worse for themselves
by having some of their lefty flank refuse to put a time in when you can't have an abortion
anymore.
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pick less. It's that easy. Well why is that wrong? Shouldn't it always be between the doctor and the
mother and what the health? Yeah but it doesn't sound good. It's politically unsatisfying,
unwieldy. It seems to suggest that you don't give a shit about the baby inside. So it has fueled the extension and continuation
of this conflict.
But we've never had a presidential election
where it was happening in the midst of the right
having been taken away.
The nightmare has been realized.
And I think that people are gonna vote on it.
And I think Donald Trump knows that he is the dog
who caught the car.
And he's probably pissed because he never gave a shit
about this issue in the first place.
He only was doing what he was doing to help himself.
When he was just a citizen, he was pro-choice.
And now he thinks he can beat him.
So he's agonizing over what to do about it.
The Arizona state law comes out
basically banning all abortions.
He says, what?
We're gonna work it out.
They went too far.
How the fuck are you gonna work it out?
What are you saying?
You wonder why people worry about you being an autocrat
and a despot?
How do you think it sounds when a president says,
don't worry about it.
I'll figure out that 10th Amendment states right issue there.
Yeah, I know the Supreme Court said it's a state issue.
Now, well, I'll fix Supreme Court said it's a state issue.
Now, well, I'll fix it.
What are you saying?
You're gonna meddle with a state's ability
to make its own laws,
which you just advocated for by overturning Roe
and making it a states right issue?
It doesn't even make sense.
There's like no intelligence to what the guy says.
It's always about convenience.
Just grotesque convenience.
That's what it is. Yeah, but he got it right because I'm pro-life. Okay, good. Now you own it.
You own the hypocrisy that you don't give a shit about these lives once they come out,
and you don't care about the policies and the requirements and the compassion that we need
and the requirements and the compassion that we need
for people who are in hard spaces and impoverished and undereducated without opportunity.
And they wind up doing bad things like selling drugs
and taking drugs and committing crimes
because they don't have the access to opportunity
and avenues to dignity.
And you ignore that and you judge them for it.
And you relieve yourself of the moral burden to help your brother and sister.
As Jesus instructed you and spent his life doing, spending an inordinate amount of time among the least of us,
not the best of us, if you want to make that kind of distinction. So how can it be that you are so deeply righteous when the regard just
falls away? I don't buy it, but it doesn't matter because it's for you and your choice
to make, but you're going to have to live with it. And I don't mean in here. I mean
at the ballot box because they're coming.
Now, is as big an issue as immigration?
Nope.
And as bogeymen go, I'd rather have Donald Trump's bogeyman
of being the dog that caught the car
than be Biden on the border.
The fact that he hasn't put executive orders in place
six months ago baffles me.
Now, the intelligent, though I believe overthinking Democrat
will say to me, yeah, but didn't you see
what happened with Trump?
They're gonna throw him out in court,
but it would still show that you were trying.
And the situation is different than when Trump did it.
There's more of an emergency situation.
There's more of a case to be made.
There's a better case to be made.
The issue is going to beat him.
So as boogeyman arguments go, why is it a boogeyman?
Because you should check out our episode when it comes out about how I feel about the realities
of the border.
It's a boogeyman issue in terms of the fact they're bringing crime, they're bringing
rapists and murderers, and some, I suppose, are good people.
Little Kennedy Trump there.
That's if Bobby and Trump wind up running together.
As boogeymen go, I'd rather have
the reproductive rights problem,
because I don't think there's many people
who will vote on that as the border problem.
But I do believe that reproductive rights,
and I'm not calling the issue just abortion
because it isn't.
There are a lot of women who are pissed off about this
and men who are pissed off about this.
Not because they're so anxious to have abortions,
but because they feel that they just witnessed
a right being taken away that should matter.
So I think it's coming back to haunt.
That dog has just latched on to a tire that's moving at 40 miles an hour, and I do not think
it ends well.
Now how does that manifest?
To what degree?
What is the influence on outcome?
We will see.
The three easiest words that mean the least
and are said the most in political analysis.
Why?
Because you can't be wrong.
They're right up there with my favorite expression.
Remember what it is?
I wanna have a logo made.
It's a cool looking logo.
It'll look like kind of Roman numerals.
I, I, New York Times font I'm thinking.
W, I, I. It is what it is. It's my favorite
phrase and I don't even know why. I guess it's because it is what it is.
Thank you very much for joining me for my interpretation of what I believe will be a very important issue
and polls reflect the same.
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And you can pay, and my rates are way too low
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You know, that 10 grand that we gave to Inara
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that the money that we're getting into the account
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that's the money, paid 10 grand.
Now, am I doing it the right way?
No, and it's gonna beat me up in taxes.
I don't care.
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It's not enough money for me to worry about the fact
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We got hard times in front of us, but listen,
everything in life that matters is hard.
You gotta have the same attitude no matter what it is.
Let's get after it.