The Chris Cuomo Project - Barbara Corcoran

Episode Date: May 16, 2023

Entrepreneur Barbara Corcoran (ABC’s “Shark Tank”) joins Chris for a wide-ranging discussion about whether luck factors into success, the role that impostor syndrome plays in life and why some of the best entrepreneurs struggle with insecurity, how letting children experience failure early in life can help them become more independent later on, whether American culture no longer celebrates success, how the media weaponizes apologies, and much more. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's the difference between somebody who has great success and the rest of us? I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to another episode of The Chris Cuomo Project. Barbara Corcoran, okay? She killed it 100% way before Shark Tank. She sold her real estate company, Corcoran, which is in New York City. It's like, forget it. Everybody knows the name. For over $60 million, like 20 years ago. All right? So she was like one and

done if she wanted to be. But she's kept coming. Why? What an interesting discussion, not about Shark Tank, not about being rich, but being driven. Insecurity, that's a bad thing, right? You want to limit your insecurity, right? Or not. Is it a tool? Is it unavoidable? Is it something we can harness? Barbara Corcoran has really good insight into that. So please subscribe, follow. It's great to have you. And here is the gift of the day. Shark Tank's own Barbara Corcoran. The Chris Cuomo Project is supported by Cozy Earth. Why? Because I like their sheets. That's why. A lot of people don't get a good night's sleep for a lot of reasons.

One of the ones that you can control is bedding. One out of three of us report being sleep deprived. Okay, well, what is it? Well, it stresses all kinds of things. But the wrong sheets can make you hot, can make you cold. I'm telling you, I don't even believe it either. But the wrong sheets can make you hot, can make you cold. I'm telling you, I don't even believe it either. But Cozy Earth sheets breathe. And here's what I love about them.

Cozy Earth's best-selling sheet is a bamboo set, okay? Temperature regulating. Gets softer with every wash. I'm not kidding you, all right? Now, so if you go to CozyEarth.com and you enter the code, enter the code Chris, and you can get up to 35% off your first order. CozyEarth.com and the code is Chris. We don't fake the funk here. And here's the real talk. Over 40 years of age, 52% of us experience some kind of ED between the ages of 40 and 70. I know it's taboo, it's embarrassing, but it shouldn't be. Thankfully, we now have HIMS, and it's changing the vibe by providing affordable access to ED treatment, and it's all online.

HIMS is changing men's health care. Why? Because it's giving you access toS is changing men's health care. Why? Because it's given you access to affordable and discreet sexual health treatments. And you do it right from your couch. HIMS provides access to clinically proven generic alternatives to Viagra or Cialis or whatever. And it's up to like 95% cheaper. And there are options as low as two bucks a dose. HIMS has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers.

So if ED is getting you down, it's time to pick it up. Start your free online visit today at HIMS.com slash CCP. H-I-M-S dot com slash CCP. And you will get personalized ED treatment options. HIMS dot com slash CCP. Prescriptions, you need an online consultation with a healthcare provider. And they will determine if appropriate. Restrictions apply.

You see the website. You'll get details and important safety information. You're going to need a subscription. It's required. Plus, price is going to vary based on product and subscription plan. The one and only Barbara Corcoran. What a great pleasure to have you on. I am a fan of everything that I see and everything that I know,

especially as a New Yorker, about your wild success. It's mutual. I'm really happy to be here. One, I want to help clear something up because you are paying a price of celebrity in a world I know very well. I'm a very middling investor. My wife has the savvy and the business savvy. She runs a company called Purist that does wellness and events. Very successful. Me, not so much. But what I know is media culture. And I follow you on social media. I love how empowering your messages are. I love how you try to make people comfortable with risk and understanding that nothing is ever over.

And you got grabbed for a second on Twitter by the gotcha machine for saying something that everyone I know who has come up hard the way you did agrees with. that when you are poor, you can see risk differently because the upside is so tremendous. You had people come after you and say, no, they're living paycheck to paycheck. They can't take any risk. You have forgotten what it means to be in that position. What do you want to tell people? Well, right now, more recently, I am much more afraid of risk. I think when you have more money, you have a lot more to lose. So you get a little scary cat.

Also, that's a virtue of being older, I think. But you know, when you're poor, and especially if you're poor and young, what a great combination that is. You have nothing to lose. I mean, you throw your dice. The worst that could happen, I always thought the worst that could happen is I could go back to the Four Lea Diner in New Jersey and I could be their best waitress again. And I love that job. I was happy then. And so I think when you're poor, like why not take the risk? Of course, well, I'm not answering you well, am I, Chris? I'm sorry.

But now I'm thinking I'm second guessing myself. If I had to feed my kids, I wouldn't take a risk. But short of that, when you're young, before you have that responsibility, it's the time to move ahead, really. It also assumes a binary existence that's not really fair. I mean, it's fair for Twitter and for the purposes of gotcha, where someone who's wealthy isn't supposed to talk about someone who isn't anymore, even if you once were.

But it reminds me of the same thing Susie Orman says, and not because you're both women, but she was a waitress and she had ambitions and she thought she would get bigger and she knew she could take the risks. And she also was comfortable with being without because she knew it. She didn't like it.

That's why she was so desperately trying to find her way to something better, but she knew she could hack it. And I feel people didn't like it. That's why she was so desperately trying to find her way to something better. But she knew she could hack it. And I feel people didn't give you the benefit of that analysis. You know what it is to be poor. And you know what that feels like and how it drives you and how it frightens you. You know, I wasn't a bad kind of poor, honestly. We had 10 kids.

We lived hand to mouth. My dad was always doing his job. By anyone looking from the outside, they would say we were poor. But let me tell you, I was a kid under my mother's watch and she was so loving and supportive and so much a believer in each of her kids that we never felt poor at all. Maybe I felt poor in high school because I was in hand-me-downs. I was ashamed of how I looked. But my mother had a way of making you feel like a million bucks. Like we felt like the Kennedys in town, the biggest family, probably the most kids in one room. But I felt like we were kind of better because my mother convinced us we were. So I never really felt poor, you know?

And you know what? I could be poor again. I don't want to be. Hey, we better stop talking. We're going to bring bad luck on me. We got to stop this. Hey, I got news for you. There is no such thing as luck. There are circumstances. There's chance. I have studied this. I've thought about it a lot because I had a little touch of woe is me syndrome,

which is a near death sentence for a Cuomo. In my family, thank God my father rests in peace. But if he had ever heard me lament anything that I have lived through recently or ever, oh my God, it would have been horrible. Whatever I was dealing with would have been nothing compared to what he would have done to me. Because things happen that you make happen and that happen to you that you don't control and you get a chance to react. There's chance, there's's circumstance there are favorable outcomes but there's no magic there is

no yeah i gotta tell you that corcoran every time she throws the dice man she just hits her mark i don't know what it is it's chance is what it is unless there's skill involved so you're not going to jinx yourself you can't be jinxed. You're developing your own outcomes. And I love how committed you are to helping other people who are hungry, to helping people understand that you can fake it till you make it, and that imposter syndrome is a real thing. made with due respect, of course. I don't really agree with you that there's no such thing as luck because I heard some incredible lucky breaks that were happenstance. Granted, I took the opportunity and ran with it and made something bigger of it and that I get the credit for. But without those chances, I'm not so sure my life would have had the trajectory it had by any means. I mean, even the idea that I had a boyfriend who gave me a thousand dollars to start a real estate business, you got to call that luck. You got to call it luck. That I took it and did it was my responsibility and to my credit. But I had many lucky breaks

along the way, really, that a lot of people just don't get. So I don't know if I wholeheartedly agree with you. You don't have to agree with me. That's the nice thing, especially because you're Barbara Corcoran. Oh, you're the host, though. I thought I had to agree with you. You don't have to agree with me. That's the nice thing, especially because you're Barbara Corcoran. Oh, you're the host, though. I thought I had to agree with you. No. I think, if anything, I stand out because I'm constantly disagreed with. But I would make a cogency case that things that are happenstance. You had a boyfriend who gave you a thousand bucks because he had a thousand bucks and he felt that way about you. Yes. I don't see that as luck. If you looked like me and you had a boyfriend who gave you a thousand bucks now, maybe you're getting lucky. Um, but I give you a thousand looking

just the way you look. That's about all it's worth. My teeth cost 10 times that. Um, but I do, I want to talk to you about something that you have addressed a lot, but I think people get so caught up in your success and shark tank and the investments and what works. And people know that story. If they're listening to this, if they're watching this, they know who Barbara Corcoran is. And I had a similar conversation again with Susie Orman, not to put you in a box, but I'm so fascinated by her sense of why. Yeah, I mean, Susie Ormond is a great company to be in by any metric. But imposter syndrome. I want to talk about this. And I want to talk about the role of insecurity and how you understand it.

Because I'm very fascinated by it. It's something I struggle with. way, Cuomo works and thinks maniacally because he's so afraid of falling short of people saying he is where he is because of his name, even though I've always felt the opposite was true. It was very hard for me to get a job in media because of my father being a politician. But the facts don't matter. It's all about how people feel. So let's start with how you understand insecurity. What does it mean in your life? How do you observe it in others as just an energy? We'll talk about whether it's good or bad, but let's just start with how you see it and what you think of it. It's a big card. Let me tell you, I honestly don't think you could find a really successful

person who isn't as equally insecure. I think it drives you. Nothing's worse than being cocky and thinking you're going to have a success. It's such a power to think you're not going to have a success. And as you just said, work twice as hard, kill yourself to really make a success because you're too insecure to trust that you're going to be a success without it. self to really make a success because you're too insecure to trust that you're going to be a success without it. I think that's the best card I have. If I wasn't an insecure person from school because I was such a lousy student, that's what injured me. If I wasn't that kid in school thinking I would never make anything of myself in life, I wouldn't have made anything of myself because I was running past that all the time trying to prove to everybody that I am not

stupid. I just had to show everyone I'm not stupid. I'm not stupid. So do I work twice as hard as the next girl on the block? You betcha. Do I prepare twice as hard as everything I do? You betcha, because I'm still afraid I'm going to fall on my face. But I'm sure that's not unusual. When I get to know people that are really successful, when I get to know them as individuals, they all have imposter syndrome. They are all insecure. Don't be fooled. It's the guy that's easy and sitting back on his hump that feels really secure. And let me give you an example. I'm sorry, I'm going off too much, but let me give you one little example. I ran sales people for a living. I had to choose sales people trying to figure out who had the talent, who could make a hit of themselves. Not easy, selling in real estate and being a hit.

And I always chose the insecure person who had something to prove because I knew I had a winner. If they had that engine, that power pushing them behind, I said, uh-huh, they're going to be a winner. And I was right every time. So even on Shark Time, I look at the person, I try not even to pay attention to that business because I'm thinking, ah, it makes sense. That's good enough. But I'm looking at that individual and trying to get out of them what they're working around. When I see they had a dad who beat them or a mother who damned them to hell, gave them no love, I've got an insurance policy. That entrepreneur runs harder and faster than anyone. So I just think insecurity is a fact of life.

And if you have it, you're lucky. That's it. I think that you're right. However, it bothers me on two or maybe three levels. Not that I disagree. I agree. Something I've realized about people who are great is that the way you see things and how you process things and how you understand yourself and dynamics that will be familiar to anybody, it doesn't matter what

your P&L is or your balance sheet. What you're aspiring to. Right. I think that is the best gift to give an audience that's interested in those people. Because one, you start to see so many similarities and so many choice structures that people made in familiar circumstances that maybe you don't make, or you wouldn't have thought Barbara Corcoran did that, or you wouldn't have thought Tyler Perry was thinking about it that way or went through something. And I think that's very helpful because one, there's something aspirational to a Barbara Corcoran. And I mean, when I was thinking about you, the first thing that popped into my head was one, oh, I'm so happy she's coming on. This is gonna be great for people who like the project.

And two, it was like, I kind of talked to her about my apartment. I really wanna sell my apartment. And my wife is telling me no, and I don't usually mess with her because I have such a horrible history of being wrong. But immediately, I assume you would know. And that is such a valuable thing. And I want people to understand that you can really get into why somebody is aspirational. So here's what

bothers me about what we're talking about right now. One, I definitely have it. I'm incredibly insecure. It looks good on you, by the way.. One, I definitely have it. I'm incredibly insecure. It looks good on you, by the way. Thank you. I would argue with reason that I'm insecure. But I also think that people are constantly trying to not make you insecure. You know, if someone says to you, I'm very insecure about how this is going to go. I really hope it.

It's like our instinct is to say, oh, no, no, don't be like that. Shroom up. Yeah, right? So that's my first level of concern, which is, if this is what drives us, why is it something that we also often categorize as a fault? And many people are not like you who even want to discuss it unless it's framed the right way. Like I saw Cuban, Mark Cuban, whom I know, asked about this, but in the context of you already qualifying it as something that leads to success. And then he was like, oh yeah, all of us have imposter syndrome. I don't know that he would identify himself as insecure right off the bat because we see it as a weakness. So how do we reconcile

those two things? You know what I think gets in the way is a lot of people recognize insecurity and hear, I got to break through it. I got to work through it. Don't have the ambition to do it. And so you could be insecure and never make anything of yourself. There's probably 20 people for that person versus one person who does something with it and makes a big hit of themselves. I think insecurity is a hard thing to break through. You think it's a weakness, a liability, you're working on one leg. And so you come out of the gate not working as hard, most people. But that unusual individual finds a way to get there anyway.

So insecurity has a bad rap because usually people who are insecure aren't successful in most instances. But I'm telling you, the most successful entrepreneurs I know are insecure. Without exception, every one of my best entrepreneurs I invested in on Shark Tank need a good shrink. They are way out there. Something wrong. You know, but boy, are they good at business. You know, a lot of us work through a lot of our issues through our businesses. I know when my boyfriend left me to marry my secretary, he hid in my work.

I should have seen a shrink and got over it. It took me years to get over it because I worked through it. You know, whatever goes wrong, I work through. But a lot of people don't do that. It's like a block in the way, you know? Absolutely. That's probably the answer to the first concern. You have more?

My God, when are you going to stop? It's a common. I got to make the most of the opportunity. Three concerns over one comment I make. Oh, my gosh. I'm so interested because I'm insecure and I want to make sure that I get the most out of this for the people who are listening and watching. You see, it's working. So I get that.

Insecurity is part of the human condition. So the choice isn't whether or not to be insecure. You're going to be. It's what you do with it. And that's the human condition. So the choice isn't whether or not to be insecure. You're going to be. It's what you do with it. And that's the differentiator. Okay, the second level of concern. We're both in the kid game. And I have been coached.

I went to the Yale Parenting Center because I had such an incomplete toolbox, according to my wife, and she was once again right. So I had to learn. I'd have different tools with my kids, specifically our son. And all of it reinforces that you want to try to not make this person insecure. You want to shore them up.

And my instinct used to be called tough love in our generation, but now it's not. And I'm always told, don't do that. Tell the kid they're going to be a winner. It's going to be okay. They're going to get through it. They're going to do it. And I now know when I hire and we're both in the hiring game, it is not easy to find a young person who has a chip on their shoulder that creates drive instead of victim status. I can't tell you how many people in their 20s and 30s come to me and say, you know, you really don't tell me that I'm doing a good job enough. And I say, worry when I'm telling you you're doing a bad job.

I expect you to do a good job. You have the job because you do a good job. You work hard because you won't be here if you don't. This is a startup. Oh, that's a motivator, Chris. But I'm not a motivator. I, you know, I'm not a motivator. I'm not a leader. But what I'm saying is this parenting thing has obviously worked because I never would have asked that to anybody I was working for when I was at a Wall Street law firm, when I was working at a gas station, when I was working for, when I was at a Wall Street law firm, when I was working at a gas station, when I was working construction, I would never have gone to my boss and been like, hey, where's the love, brother? You see me washing those windshields out there? I'm killing it. But so here's my second concern, is that have we moved away from embracing the suck and the fear

and the insecurity and let it drive you and make our kids aware, hey, man, you better get out there because there are three people who want it. And now we tell them it's all going to be okay. Everybody gets a trophy. You're a winner from day one, and you should be celebrated for your best effort, even if it's not good enough. Are you worried about that? Do you see that at all?

Or am I just nuts? I have two kids, and I think it's much harder to do a good job with the kids than anyone else in the world. You know, you're so self-critical as if you're loving, empowering yourself critical. I question myself all the time, but I do have really clear theories on what needs to happen to my kids to make them good kids. And so far there, well, the jury's still out, but so far so good. Okay.

You have to remember one thing, Chris. You had Mario Matilda as parents. That really shored you up well not to have to go into the gas station or the law firm and get reinforcement all the time because they were probably tough parents who probably didn't say, you're amazing, you're incredible. They probably expected it of you, and you expected it of yourself. say you're amazing, you're incredible. They probably expected it of you and you expected of yourself. But today with children, I think people shore them up too much and tell them they're incredible when they're not. I don't do that. I support my kids. I've always told them they were great and I adore them. I think they're perfect, but I don't tell them they're perfect. However, I let them fail. I think the key with kids is to let them drop. You know, I grew up

with my son on the Upper East Side. Everybody had a tutor for everything if they went below a B. Fortunately, my kids were both dyslexic like I was, all right, even though I adopted one. So you'd think I would have gotten a lucky break maybe along the way, right? No way, okay? But I didn't hire the tutor when he was falling. He learned how to feel as a loser. I think then when you bring yourself back up as a child, find a way back up, you come up with more confidence. I think I allowed them to be more independent very early on, you know? You know, it's amazing to me, honestly, that you and your brother did as well as you did under the label of your family. I mean, that alone is so much pressure. I couldn't imagine. I had, that alone is so much pressure.

I couldn't imagine. I had nobody, so I was free of that stuff, you know? But I don't agree with you how you're managing your staff, and let me lecture to you now. Please. You would get three times as much of them if you went on a hunt every day to find one great thing they did and to point it out publicly in front of the other workers. I do it all the time. And my staff

is driven, happy, and it's amazing what they accomplished. It wouldn't happen without the compliments. I believe you've got to do that as a boss. Just like you want accolades from your parents, you want accolades from your boss. It's so important, as long as they're genuine. Not you're incredible, you're incredible. I loved what you did on such and such. That's all. That's all it takes. They would rise up for you, and you would have more fun. Yeah, you could be a good guy now, not a tough guy. I'm only one way.

But here's the good news. I agree with your wife, and you know she's always right. She is. Well, compared to me, but it's a low bar. You know, I mean, I ask questions for a living for a reason. I know very few things. I have a lot of experience. I have a lot of miles on the clock. Even given 52 years,

I think I probably have more miles than most. But I learn the hard way every time. We don't fake the funk here. And here's the real talk. Over 40 years of age, 52% of us experience some kind of ED between the ages of 40 and 70. I know it's taboo, it's embarrassing, but it shouldn't be. Thankfully, we now have HIMS, and it's changing the vibe by providing affordable access to ED treatment, and it's all online.

HIMS is changing men's health care. Why? Because it's giving you access to affordable and discreet sexual health treatments. And you do it right from your couch. HIMS provides access to clinically proven generic alternatives to Viagra or Cialis or whatever. And it's up to like 95% cheaper. And their options are as low as two bucks a dose. HIMS has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers.

So if ED is getting you down, it's time to pick it up. Start your free online visit today at HIMS.com slash CCP. H-I-M-S dot com slash C-C-P. And you will get personalized ED treatment options. HIMS dot com slash C-C-P. Prescriptions, you need an online consultation with a healthcare provider. And they will determine if appropriate. Restrictions apply.

You see the website. You'll get details and important safety information. You're going to need a subscription. It's required. Plus, price is going to vary based on product and subscription plan. Look, no shame in my game. I've been using AG1 for over five years. Why? It works, it's easier, and it's less expensive.

That's why. Since 2010, they've been getting their formulations right and tweaking their formulas. Why? Because the science changes, okay? It's not like politics where people decide to believe one thing and no matter what happens with the facts, they never shift. This is the opposite. Ooh, prebiotics work with probiotics, but in this way. D works with K and this type of B works with that.

They have the scientists doing it. So I don't need all the bottles. I don't have to spend all the money and I don't have to figure out when to take what and why. More importantly, it's not just the regular list of vitamins. It's the extras. Okay. The adaptogens, the prebiotics, the probiotics that support your body's universal needs, gut optimization, immune support, stress management. That's what foundational nutrition is about. And these are the people at AG1 who've been doing the work to get it right. Okay? I tell friends, I tell family, I get no complaints, okay? If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1.

Try AG1, you get a free one-year supply of vitamin D3K2 and five free AG1 travel packs, okay? That's what happens with your first purchase. So make it. Go to drinkag1.com slash ccp. drinkag1.com slash ccp. Drinkag1.com slash ccp. Check it out. I'm also not the boss. Dusty's the boss.

Alexandra Cohen, who is the EP of all what she calls Cuomo Enterprises or Cuomo Co. So everything that we do, she's the boss. Yeah, but you have to think in your head, which is more powerful, honestly. And she is really good at getting the most out of people because everybody sees that she loves them and she just works so hard and she expects it from everybody else. But she's the one who deals with the staff that way. So I get lucky. But I agree with you. If I could interrupt you, that's like telling your children you get enough love from your mother.

So what do you need to come to me for? That's exactly what I say. I always say to my kids, listen, when they get sideways with mom, okay, they don't get sideways with me the same way because I only have one of the three that likes to take me on. Um, the other two don't because I'm a monster. You know what I mean? You know, I'm a vanilla gorilla. So if you have a dad walking around who bends steel over his head, you know, and I was raised hard, you know, I was raised by people who had a lot of fear and a lot of drive and a lot of expectations. You knew my parents, my father's gone. My mother's still with us. She's 53 years old. And when Andrew got knocked down and then I got knocked down, her message was very simple. She grabbed my face when we finally, cause she's blessed with having a little bit

of a spotty short-term memory right now. So it was kind of, uh, we had an ability to hide some realities, uh, from her, at least for a while. But when she figured out what was going on, she grabbed my face and she said, first of all, I don't want to hear you run yourself down. She said, the world to do that for you. Nobody's going to tell you, wash your face. You'll look better than me. You take care of yourself. And you remember that every minute that you spend feeling bad for yourself is one minute that you are not showing the respect for

this family that you should. You put everything you can into your kids and into doing things that you can fix and doing things that you feel are right. And you stop worrying about yourself. Let the world do that. Let the world tell you how you are. You just worry about what you show them. And she was as crystal and as laser as she has always been. She never wanted to hear, oh, but I didn't get that part. I didn't get that spot on the team. And I think she's like, oh, my father, forget it. He would have been like, you're lucky you even have a chance to try out on the team. I never had a team.

I can't hear his voice. I used to eat a bag of dirt, and I like it. Back in the old days, we didn't have any of this confidence. You went out there, the pitch came, you hit it, and you ate or you didn't. So he was different. But my mom would say, you can't focus on the negative. You can't do it because it's going to be there. It's going to be done for you.

You're going to be judged, especially us, right? That you've got to focus on that. And I think it's a real blessing. I need that from my mom because I don't have it naturally. I'm consumed by negative outcomes. I often have a joke with my staff. I say, don't be me. To me, success is failure averted. We just got our number stack for News Nation, this startup I'm at that's owned by Nextar, which is a huge company that owns the most television stations in the country. So it's not like it's a pop-up, but it's new to the cable news scene. And the numbers were up like 170% or something crazy like that. Because, you know, we're building. And that's good. It's good to be building in a stratifying.

Yeah, I'm good. Come on. It's incredible. So I see the number and I'm like, why is that 170 and that other one is 200? How did I fuck that up? Like that's where my head goes. And I look at the numbers and I talk to the guys about what it is and what it isn't. We do the same thing on the podcast. I talk to the producers. I'm like, I don't get it. Why did that only do

this? Did I not promote it the right way? Should I have banged on Barbara and said, hey, you got to tweet more about this thing? I don't know. What am I doing wrong? That's just the way I process. And that leads me to my third problem with insecurity as a driving mechanism, which is we seem to see it as something to eradicate in our society. I do have a shrink. And what I love about him is that when I say like, I can't believe I did this and I screwed this up. And now what am I going to do? I made the same bad choice. He goes, yeah, that's terrible. That's how he asks it. That's what he says. He'll be like, yeah, you really stepped in it there. Yeah, that was stupid. And he'll say, so now what? And I'll say, and now we've been together a long time. So now I understand the process. I catch myself within it. But I used to be like,

what do you mean now what? Now you tell me, what do I have wrong? He's like, you don't have anything wrong. What you said, what you did, what you didn't do, what you didn't say, that was stupid. You got a problem. So let's talk about why you made that mistake or why you don't understand what to do here. And then you'll see the better way.

And that's why I think he's a genius. I call him a life coach more than a therapist because he does a lot more planning for me than I think the typical therapist does. Of course, they don't usually plan for you, no. Yeah, he's really, I got really, to use your word, lucky. My wife found my therapist.

It just doesn't exist. I don't believe it does. I would say this. The circumstance was my wife looked around at the marital landscape 10, 12 years ago. We'd been married 21 years. And said, huh, a lot of people are splitting up. They get along better than we do. We should have somebody that we talk to as a tool.

Remember, she's a boss. So she thinks about how to fix and how to make things better. More like a coach, I would think. Yeah, she's good. She's good. So she found this therapist and like five sessions in, after the smoke cleared

from me getting my ass kicked by like both of them for four or five sessions, they decided that she didn't have to be there anymore. You're kidding. She got promoted and you got left behind.

And he became my therapist. And I was like, wow. I hope he got a half fee out of the guy. Yeah're kidding. She got promoted and you got left behind. And he became my therapist. And I was like, wow. I hope he got a half fee out of the guy. Yeah, right. I always used to call him by his hourly rate. Like that's how I used to refer to him. And then eventually Christina was like, you know, you got to stop doing that because he's worth a lot more. And he became my therapist. So was it luck? No, it was circumstance. She found him. But what was amazing is he worked with my father and my brother. Wow. Yeah.

And he was a big- Did you know that at the time? No. No, I had no idea. And he had no idea when she reached out who her husband was. So he has all this really interesting perspective on my family and the other guys in my my family, you know? So he's been a real blessing. Blessings, I believe in. So the third problem is I don't believe, and I think that this was even to me present in this bullshit over your tweet. We are so into- Any other tweet. I didn't see that tweet bullshit, by the way.

Good. That's a blessing. This is the, I call it bullshit. I'm sure that, you know, you're mature and you address things and that's why you're successful. But I see it as a natural, destructive, and reductive tendency in American culture where we don't celebrate success anymore. We see it as suspicious. And we want people to be worse. suspicious and we want people to be worse it's like daytime tv culture has become dominant that i don't want to say why barbara corcoran's good i want to hear something bad about her and my life will be a little bit better if hers is a little bit worse we see it in our politics you know any issue you give me even what's going on with trump right now oh yeah but the democrats are worse oh

but hunter biden oh but Oh, but Hunter Biden. Oh, but this. Oh, but that. There is no, and here's why we're better. It's all reductive. And that leads me to my third concern with this very important concept in terms of what drives us to be our best, which is we seem to be about tearing everything down

that we can. And I don't know how it gets us to a better place. Do you observe that anywhere? And what does it mean to you as an idea? You know, I first observed it when I was in school. I was never picked on as a kid on the playground, so to speak. But the popular kids, we wanted to drag them down. Most of the boys dragged the cool kid down, or dragged him down a little. I think that's human nature.

You're miserable. Life's not going well for you. So you don't like to see the next guy get ahead. But the difference today is you're free to say it because of social media. The old days, you'd think it, you might get an article on it and make it known that this person's not doing well. You think, don't think well of them. But today it's so instant. Whatever you're feeling is out of your lips in our social media. I don't think that's going to change, sadly, but I think you can exempt yourself and not read any of your comments. I do that. I go out for lunch in my head. I don't worry about it. I'm not going to be torn down by anything like that.

You know, it's futile. It's a waste of time. I tell you what, I think that that is the exact right perspective. And here's why I know that that's the right way for you to see it. Because things are so ephemeral and temporary now. I have a talk that I want to go and I'm happy for you to spread the word of this availability. I want to talk to corporate groups of people who get into trouble, okay? Because everybody is going to get jammed up at some point. It doesn't have to be existential, but I mean, there's going to be a problem. You got a trademark issue. You know, you got a PR problem.

Something happens with one of your workers or whatever it is, brand problem. Nothing survives seven days now unless there's a process attached to it. If you shut your mouth and don't feed the fire, that sounds like common sense to anybody who kind of grew up in any kind of neighborhood that had any kind of edgy dynamic. You know that quiet is a commodity, but there's so much pressure now to be involved in the maelstrom, the noise of social media and feedback. And pros will tell you, Barbara, we got to get ahead of this. Address it. Yeah, we got to get out there.

Otherwise, you're going to let them define the narrative. Wrong. That is only true when you have a 100% demonstrable counter. I was not here on that day. We already settled this case, and they said we didn't do that. That is not why this person just left. We have always owned this property. That's rare though that you have that kind of defense. It is. But unless you can do that and it must come attached, and I want this as a journalist, when someone says to me, unless it's the former president, if you write that, if you say that after I just told you I wasn't there, I just told you, there's going to be another set of numbers that's going to show that this is not right.

We did not hedge on this thing. I will sue you because you were on notice that this isn't right. I have to tell you, I'm not saying that the threat of litigation, but I've been living with that for decades, but it makes me think as a journalist, this man, this woman, this entity, they're putting a little skin in the game right now, and it makes me think. So if you don't have that, something that's almost dispositive on the issue, which as you said, is very rare, the best commodity you have is quiet because the question becomes, well, what's going to drive this forward? I'm going to whack you in the head with whatever it is.

Now, it's not going to last very long because somebody is getting whacked in the head every 15 nanoseconds. And it's, well, what feeds it? Well, I'm going to get a couple of anonymous sources because nobody wants to go against Corcoran because this is really just a hit piece. And it's going to fade until someone who wants to justify their existence in your organization says, we really should put out a statement about this

because your viewers, your fans, your whatever, your clients are going to want to know. And the answer to that, I believe, nine times out of 10 is, then I'll tell them directly. Anybody who expresses a concern, I'll deal with directly. And within seven days, that crisis is gone. As long as there's not a process attached, meaning you're being investigated by the SEC

or there is a lawsuit or there is, you know what I mean? When there's process, then it becomes more protracted. But I believe that's why you are correct and you got to let things go. One, you got to let things go because if you don't control it, this is literally wasted energy. But there are exceptions. I think the exception is when there really is an apology needed. I'll give you a case, an example, perhaps I shouldn't bring up again. I might cause a hoopla all over. But I was on The View and offended with a bad joke. I thought it was funny. I still think

it's funny. A bad joke at Whoopi Goldberg's expense about a big pair of pants. I'll leave it there. Anyway, I was in the cab, come back to my office, saying, I did a great job. I was with the other sharks. I held my own, which is all I want to do always is hold my own on that situation. And the cab was quiet on the way home. I'm like, uh-oh, what's wrong? We're going to have a news media tension on this comment? You get ready.

By the time I hit my office and 10 minutes after that, I gave a tape of sincere apology because i felt badly i didn't mean to offend and how lovely whoopie is and you know blah blah blah and i apologized immediately because that's what my instinct said and it avoided the storm we got crap sent down us for three days but after that it was it was the right thing to do so i think apologies and really clear excuses if you weren't there, are the two exceptions. I will give you the exceptions. However, I believe those exceptions

are very rapidly being weaponized. And I believe in apologies. I certainly believe in making amends. You know Whoopi. You know you can pick up the phone and talk to her and she would certainly do the same with you if the tables were reversed. I think that is the meaningful apology or amends because, you know, you didn't want to offend her. Now it becomes about the perception of the reality, and I see in the media that apologies can very easily be weaponized as an admission of guilt.

can very easily be weaponized as an admission of guilt. And that's why, you know, love him, hate him. Trump is right to never apologize and never admit wrongdoing. Can that make him be perceived as a liar? Yeah. But in the game that he's in, he's in the persuasion game, not in the truth game. With his base, it's just like the New York Jets saying, this is our year. This is our year.

I looked at it that way. That's true. They know it's bullshit. They know it's not their year. You can get Aaron Rodgers. You're still going to stink. You can get a great quarterback. You've still got all the different problems you have. A lifelong suffering Jets fan.

But that's what I want to hear from them because they're my team. It's not about the truth. It's about how I feel about them and how they make me feel about myself. Trump understands that and he lets his base keep their confidence in him because he admits no weakness. Now, you could say, but that's a lousy leader. He's got to lead everybody, not this one slice of, you know, really fervent followers. Politics is its own game. How you treat your friends, what it means for your brand as a business. Although I will say, the stories that have been hardest for me to stay on are the ones where the focus of the story is giving me nothing. When they stay quiet.

And after a while, it kind of burns out because how much there there was there to begin with. Very often, you know, Corcoran and Cuomo are doing a new show. There's tension on the set. Someone says Cuomo said this about Corcoran and she didn't like. If you're not hearing it from Barbara Corcoran and I shut my mouth, that becomes a hearsay story and it's going to fade because there's going to be something better in five minutes. That's my caveat on you doing the right thing with the apology. But it

does make me wonder, is success getting harder in this society because it's no longer prized. The American dream, I thought, from my grandparents and my parents was the desperation for a chance to succeed or fail on their own merits. And they wanted money. My grandfather, not wealth, he knew he was never going to have great wealth, but he used to say, un po' soldi, un po' soldi, moneta. He would say, like, to have money in your pocket, to know that if you're hungry and you want something, you've got it. That if you want to plan to have that new Mercury Montego, which was this car he loved because he thought the name sounded Italian, even though it was actually Latin. But he could make the money.

He could get it. That was the dream. Now— I could feel his emotion when you relate that story. I get it. He was the real deal. He lived the dream. He came here.

He dug ditches. He had a cousin who was more savvy who came over who said to him, we got to get out of this digging business. This isn't going to work. And they found their way. He had a beautiful Jewish benefactor who wanted a guy to run his store, who saw the insecurity, who saw the desperation

and taught my grandfather the grocery business, wound up renting him the store and gave him the back room to raise his family. That's where my father grew up, in the back room of a grocery store in South Jamaica, Queens. And then they got into house building. They built two, three houses, and they retired.

And they played bocce for like the rest of their lives. But that was the dream. Now you say, wow, you know, look at how successful she is. Yeah, I hate that. Yeah, you know, he, she,

they think who they are now. They're the problem, the ruling elites. It's interesting how it's being weaponized in our society. I think people who have that kind of response are not first-generation Americans. I think they're people that don't aspire in a big way or don't have the ambition to put the work behind it. But talk to any first-generation immigrant. They're no different today than they were when your grandfather came to this country. They want the American dream.

They want to do well for them and their family and the family that comes after that. And they have the work ethic to match it. I am cheered on more by first-generation immigrants because they're quite genuine. And they aren't going to pull someone who's successful down if they know you did it. They want to know how you did it so they could do it too. A lot of the people who pay attention to the podcast, a lot of them are media, but there are a lot of small business people who are running their own shops, figuring it out, working from home. What have you seen that's a major differentiator in who makes and who breaks when they're in a startup?

Ambition. I mean, I know it's an old-fashioned word. Give me somebody with ambition. Even with not a lot of talent, they somehow would hit the finish line. They just have it in their head that they've got to succeed and they're going to do whatever they have to do short of murdering the next guy to succeed. Yeah, the ambition card is paramount. You see it with your own kids. You have a kid that you put two kids on a baseball team and one really wants to be the winner and one's happy to be in the backfield. Very hard to change that kid. It's an intrinsic trait, I think. I think you can learn ambition by mimicking parents, but I think in the end, you're born with a certain type of personality and you either kind of have it or you don't,

you know, which brings us all the way back to insecurity again, right? Usually the kid who's a champion on the team is the insecure kid. Has to have it. Has to have it. Defines themselves by it. And there, you could argue there's something imbalanced about that. There's something unhealthy about that. Sure there is. It's totally unhealthy, but that's a rich kid 20 years from now, probably. All right. Now how about this? Kid comes to you

and says, I'm in high school. I'm a decent student. I'm not a blow away student. Should I go to college or should I become a welder if I want to make money and maybe start a business someday? I would say, what turns you on? I don't think everybody should go to college. Too many kids go to college and inherit a lot of debt that they can't afford. And they could be very good in business for themselves of being a roofer like my brothers or window guy like my other brother or nurse like my sister. They didn't need college for all that stuff. And they didn't go to college. But I think if you want to be an attorney, of course, if you want to be a doctor, if you need that higher education, of course, you have to go. But no, I think for a lot of people, it keeps them out of the workforce and making their

fortune too long. I really do. What is your take now to my selfish interest? What do you think is going to happen in the New York residential co-op market? It's going to do what it's always done. It's going to go up. It's going to go down. It's going to go up.

It's going to go down. It's going to be in direct response to what's going on in Wall Street and the interest climate. When rates go up, people stall. Although people in Manhattan basically are so rich now that they're less sensitive to interest rates. They always borrow against the stock portfolio, what have you. But in the end, what rules as to whether the market is going to go up or down is you have more buyers or more sellers.

That's what it is, supply and demand. You got more buyers out there who want a place, prices go up. You have more sellers who want to sell, prices go down. That's the way it is. But you're not asking me to foretell the future, are you? Because I really don't know. I'm always wrong and I can never time the market. And I've invested my whole life in small apartment buildings that I collect rent from. I don't think I've ever bought at a low. Most of them I bought at the high and I overpaid for, overbid somebody. But you know what? All evens out.

If you just stay in the game. I'm just a believer in being in the game all the time. All the time you have to be in the game if you want to make money in real estate. Barbara Corcoran, I am a fan and I love your success. I love how you do what you do and what you do on the show and what you do when you speak. I just love how you're using your success and I wish you much, much more of it. Well, I'm honored to be at your show. I know you say that all the time, but I really am. But tell your wife you're right more often than she's giving you credit for. Me? I would, but that'll be a lie.

She'll say, Barbara Corcoran told you to lie to me. Tell her that you have Barbara Corcoran in the wings waiting for you, so be careful with it. Yeah, it'll be a rare bad investment for you. Thank you very much for being on the show. I appreciate you taking the opportunity and helping me out. I'm always a call away if I can do something for you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the opportunity and helping me out. I'm always a call away if I can do something for you. Thank you so much.

That's interesting because I'm like a big fan of hers, and yet she was kind of disagreeing with everything I say. That's why she is Barbara Corcoran, and I'm the one asking the questions. But how interesting that way of understanding what drives us and how important that is when it comes to having success. And it's interesting to continue this conversation about what is it that motivates our best selves? What's going to make you the best investor or business person or financial success? That's only one measure, right? And one of the less important ones as you get older. So what do you think? I look forward to your comments. Thank you very much for subscribing and following, giving News Nation a chance, 8 and 11 p.m. Eastern. How do I find it? Look at the top

of the page, and there's a button right there. You can push it, and it'll tell you where to go. And I appreciate you wearing your independence and buying free agent gear. We've got new merch out there, a little let's get after it action in there also. And I dig it. Show who you are. Show what you're about. And I'll see you next time.