The Chris Cuomo Project - Behind the Interview: Scott Adams

Episode Date: March 9, 2023

In a special episode of The Chris Cuomo Project, Chris gives a behind-the-scenes look at his recent interview with Scott Adams, the creator of “Dilbert” whose comments referring to Black Americans as a “hate group” led to the widespread cancellation of his comic strip. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Everybody's talking about Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert, who created all this controversy, but why? Nobody asked that question. Is he really just someone who says racist things? Was he looking to be inflammatory? Does he really want to raise the flag of white fear and white fright and white exclusion? Is that what it is? Or is it something else?

I mean, not surprising he'd get canceled. But what about if we answer that question? I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to another episode special of The Chris Cuomo Project. Subscribe, please. Follow, please. If you're on YouTube and you look there, you can wear your independence. You can be a critical thinker and show people that you are indeed a free agent.

I believe it's the answer to our political ills. You want to get away from everything breaking down tribal lines? Leave the parties. And that's a big reason I wanted to talk to Dilbert's developer, Scott Adams, because it didn't make sense to me. Look, getting canceled for saying things like he did, that didn't surprise me, especially in the dynamics that we have right now. But the why? Nobody talked about what his intentions were or what he was trying to get after. Was this really what he wanted? So I brought him on the show and we had a conversation. And this interview is being brought back to you by popular

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Try AG1. You get a free one-year supply of vitamin D3K2 and five free AG1 travel packs, okay? That's what happens with your first purchase. So make it. Go to drinkag1.com slash ccp. Drinkag1.com slash ccp drink ag1 dot com slash ccp check it out and for some context what do you want to know well why don't you tell us a little bit about who this guy is like can you can you tell us like who is scott adams why are people talking about

him right now and what what exactly did he do that got him in hot us like who is scott adams why are people talking about him right now and what what exactly did he do that got him in hot water so you know scott adams as the guy who developed dilbert which has been out since like 1989 it wound up being distributed in like you know 2 000 or more periodicals uh 65 countries 25 different languages, a very prodigious cartoonist. But I know him as somebody who writes books about human performance and not really self-help, but I guess it falls under that category. I don't think that's a bad idea, a bad category. But he does a lot of how do you get better? How are you successful and why? I mean, he's really got penetration in that space. So that's how I knew him. Now, I didn't really follow his podcasting stuff,

but it seems that he has become increasingly provocative there. That is a temptation of digital media and social media. Your craving of resonance and your absorbing of all of this rabid stuff that's so extreme in social media can be contagious. And he has been getting more provocative. Now, I'm not saying you made him like that, but he has certainly become that way. But not really racial until this, where he said in this screed that I'm sure you've all seen, stay the F away from black people because they don't like us. Quoting this stupid, this poll from this outfit Rasmussen that no news agency I've ever been at has ever accepted it as a legitimate basis for any polling. It was clearly designed to be provocative clickbait and it worked.

How did you specifically land this interview? Because he could talk to anybody, but you're the one who got the first major interview with him. How did that work out? Are you saying you're surprised I got the interview? I'm not. I'm saying it's impressive that you're the one who landed the interview with him. News Nation is different, okay?

And I've been doing this a long time. So when I contacted him and I said, look, I don't understand why you did this, that was a little bit of a magic elixir for him because that was his frustration that I'm happy to talk about why I did this. I'm not a racist. So here's why. And I said, look, I'll let you talk. And his partial concern was, well, you know, you're going to give me the Cuomo treatment and I'm going to get interrogated the whole time. treatment and I'm going to get interrogated the whole time. Look, sometimes I'm there to test, okay? Sometimes an interview is not about a debate and a point for point. It's just about an expansive exposure of somebody. Who is Greg Ott? Who is Scott Adams in their truest form in the current context? That was the job. It wasn't for me to have, what kind of debate is it? You shouldn't say that white people should stay away from black people. No shit. You know what I mean? And, you know, even his things that he thinks are playful, you know, I've decided to identify as

black because I want to help. That's him not trying to disparage black people. He says it's disparaging this idea of identifying as and all this other, what he sees as woke, which he is certainly not a friend of, though he does identify himself as a big time lefty, which again, I thought was weird. So I told him, I'll keep my word. I'll give you more time than anybody else. And I'll let you make your case because I don't know how you're going to dig yourself out of this. Just to be clear about the consequences that happened after this all happened. after this all happened, like he, I remember I was on Twitter and it was just like a cascade of newspapers who had contracts for publishing Dilbert or whatever, just one by one going,

we're no longer publishing Dilbert. We're no longer publishing Dilbert. So this has had a material effect on him, his actual. He's a very wealthy guy. He's been making a lot of money for a very long time in a lot of different ways. However, he was canceled. Make no mistake about that. But look again, is that a good thing or a bad thing? I'm very up in the air about that. And no, it's not simply because of my own personal situation. My brother resigned from politics, which is a very specific game with its own rules. I got fired. Happens. I got rehired. Happens. So it's not like i'm personally offended by it or something. I just here's my concern I'm, not gonna have a nazi on the project. Okay, why they have no value

It has to be instructive of something that we're struggling with that we can get better on for instance when trump Endorsed a guy for senate Down south. I think it was was Virginia, I'm not sure, who was a bigot and like standing with the Confederate flag or stuff. I had him on the show just to confirm for everybody that you are this guy with the Confederate flags and all these asshole friends, right? Because I wanted to just expose this is who our president thinks should be a senator,

not to hear him out. Why? Because there is no value to your Nazi ideas, okay? Now, that's a very, very high bar for me. having the conversation and thinking, thinking that by denying platforms, which we used to call censoring when I was your age, that the idea goes away. The idea is, well, if you give them a platform, then people will think the same. By the time it comes to my ears, it is already echoing all over the country. And my concern with this in particular is I hear from white people all the time that they feel like, oh, it's like, what am I to blame for

today? It's constantly beating us over the head and diversity is being forced, not allowed to organically move throughout society. The easy counter there is, that's because it didn't organically move through society. There was systemic pushback and obvious a slowing of any progress, of course, with black people most of all, but other minority groups as well. My father used to identify as that,

not the way we use identify now, but he was always called Italian, the hot-blooded Italian American. He wasn't called just white the way we use identify now, but he was always called Italian, the hot-blooded Italian-American. He wasn't called just white the way he would be today. So things evolve, but not everywhere and not evenly. And my point is this, you shut down Scott Adams. He's the 100th person I've heard say, well, everybody is coming after white people now. And if you look at commercials, you never see a commercial with all white people, even though white people are over half the population. And you always have to have mixed race couples now, even though they're a very small part of the population.

And this is the forced pendulum of wokeness and diversity. Now, my pushback to that argumentatively, because I don't agree with the point, is yes, you're right, but that's how we create change. You know, you've had something that's been entrenched. but that's how we create change. You know, you've had something that's been entrenched. You're going to have to exaggerate and recalibrate the change if you want any change, because obviously the culture and the system are set up to resist the change,

which is why we need the change. But that doesn't mean that these people don't feel that, Greg. And my concern was, and I know this is a long answer, but it really matters, really matters. If you want to know why Nikki Haley is saying what she's saying, even though she has ethnicity in her background, why the crazy lady that goes by the three letters in the

Congress is saying national divorce, why DeSantis is leaning into the book stuff and starting to talk about traditional values. I'm telling you, this is all coded language for making white people feel that they're not going to be targeted and that these people will be the agent of their own apprehension, just like Trump was. So I feel like you got to have the conversation because on the left, they may think they're winning the argument by canceling you, but they may not win the campaigns. They may not win the battle for the soul of this country. And I don't think it's good to have any group, let alone the majority, afraid of change. I think that's a to have any group, let alone the majority, afraid of change. I think that's a huge mistake. I want to have the conversation. That's why I had Scott Adams.

In the interview, he says at some point he's only been canceled by white Democrats, and he's called being canceled an insanely, weirdly good experience. How did that land? The second part I understand. The first part I don't accept. Maybe in his personal estimation, every person of color or minority that he's spoken to has said that they're okay with it, but that's probably because they were friends with him to begin with, and they understand that he's a kind of eccentric guy who would think he was being provocative by saying things like that as opposed to being ugly. However, my thread, my social media, my comment pages are filled with people of color who are offended.

Now, his point that it's mostly white lefties, well, that is true. There is no question that social media, the crowdsourced consequences, the cancelers, even when it's done in the name of minorities, are most often activist lefty whites. That's true. I don't know that that's necessarily a pernicious or nefarious or bad thing. But I do believe that perversely it has been a good thing for him because most of you didn't know who Scott Adams was before, and you do now. And given his reach and his following, he'll still have platforms. He'll still publish his cartoon. He may make more money than he's ever made before.

And like he said, I wouldn't have been on your show if this hadn't happened. Now, that's actually not true. If he had reached out to me and said, I have ideas for how we can get to a better place and we're looking backwards too much and it's screwing up our ability to see forward and we're only doing that because this is about dividing and dividing is about power and advantage in this party system and they're monetizing it and even your business is monetizing it, I would have had him on. to people like that all the time. So I didn't need him to say ugly shit about black people in order for me to take him seriously, if anything, that made it less likely. So he does have a bigger platform though now. This is the Daily Beast's reaction to the interview. The headline is,

Chris Cuomo wants Dilbert guy uncanceled. And it quotes you from the interview. He's not David Duke. This is a demonstration of the problem with the media that is the daily beast trying to hurt me with a headline that's what it is those are single quotes by the way but i think you did say he's not david duke look he isn't david duke if a guy says look let me tell you something about racists, okay? I've interviewed many profound believers of race separation and racial supremacy and minority, okay? And most of them put me in the minority because I have Sicilian blood,

and that comes from the Moors in North Africa, so I'm also kind of black in their eyes. Just stupid, anti-Catholic, anti-everything. They own it, okay? A real racist is going to tell you, yeah, I'm racist. That's right. So he's not David Duke. He says he's not David Duke. His past shows he's not David Duke.

He just shows that he just did something that was dumb, frankly, for a very smart guy. The headline is completely inaccurate. I never said he should be uncanceled. It is not my point. It is not my prerogative to say he could be uncanceled. What I did say, which is taken out of context, this is what the media does, is when Dan was saying, so if you had canceled him, you would uncancel him? I said, yes, I would think about it. If he's going to use this platform that he has now with all this notoriety to bring attention to what

actually matters, I would think about it. Yeah. That's what I said. Is that me wanting him uncanceled because it's not David Duke? No, it's taken out of context. That's what the media does. And the bigger problem is that's what bad media does. That's what media when it's being bad does. The worst part is everybody's going to see in that and what they want. If you like Scott Adams, you'll be, oh, great. But it's just clickbait to divide and it's inaccurate. We're going to play the interview. What other takeaways do you have from this, from him coming on your show and making his case? From least to most, meaning this matters least to me to what matters most to me about it. One, there's really no pleasing

a majority these days. You're all looking through the lens And it's all this pull on us for advantage and that the other side is worse and that you're on a team and that you have to, you know, there is no understanding. There is no grace. There is no mercy. There are none of the things that all of you with the bios that say Christian in them, you don't practice it, at least not in your social media life, at least not as far as I can tell. Okay? And when I say this, of course I'm generalizing, but I mean, that's okay. All right. We're trying to characterize the situation. So that's the least most important is that, you know, you're going to have anybody on,

there is no home run, uh, in the media, in our culture anymore. There's going to be a problem with whatever you do next. This is a good example and why two's going to be a problem with whatever you do. Next, this is a good example in why two things have to be true at the same time. One, you got to think about what you say. You got to think about how it's going to land and what's going to happen when you say it. Next, you got to be more forgiving of what people say and at least let them explain it, okay? I don't think that adams is a great example of that because i actually believe his explanation but it was just way too far out there you don't say ugly angry racist things and then say but i don't believe

any of those it's just a lot for us to accept then what matters most to me is um first that news nation is seen as a place that will take on whatever it is for the right reasons and give people time and consideration to try to have a conversation i really believe that i think this i've done it i thought it was necessary and i stand by that but the days of me having people on to duke it out, I don't think it's getting us anywhere right now. It may galvanize support for me momentarily for one side of a debate or a controversy or an argument, but that's just not enough, in my estimation,

for trying to be someone who can help. The last thing is, is that I am convinced that this is the conversation that's going to decide the next election. If a Democrat can't convince white people that they are not having their pie taken from them and given to others who may will never believe deserve it as much as they do because even if they did on paper nobody wants to give up what they have they're going to have a problem winning the election okay now you can say and i know a lot of you on the left even if you're white you're going to say, well, too bad for them. Listen, you barely beat one of the ugliest, most obnoxious, most divisive, incompetent people I've ever seen run for high office.

You barely beat him, and he whooped your best in the first election. He whooped Hillary Clinton's ass. And one of the big reasons why is this. Even this January 6th nonsense, and it is nonsense. Why would there be buy-in? Of all people, Tucker Carlson is giving you a truth that somehow eluded everybody looking at it? A guy whose lawyer stood up in open court and said he is not to be taken seriously because you're so desperate for advantage and to stick with your team that you'll listen to this guy and about this nonsense. That's how deep the divide is. And if that can't be bridged, and you will not bridge it by ignoring it, and you will not win by ignoring it, I'm telling you.

I hear it. It's growing. It's growing. DeSantis sees this, and I'm not judging him. I'm judging his tactic, not his strategy. It's going to work for him. I think it's how he beats Trump in a primary, is that he is a more cogent, maybe not more charming in a perverse way, you know, in an aggressive aggro way, but his appeal to those people to be the agent of their fortunes is going to be compelling.

And I don't understand why the left wants to give up this ground. And I don't understand why our country wants to allow ourselves to be divided in a way that makes no sense. My father, may he rest in peace, nailed this. And it was such a simple thought. I'm sure he probably got it from somewhere else. American pie is about more pie, making the pie bigger and bigger and bigger so that more and more people can eat their fill based on their appetite. Not taking Greg's slice and slicing it in half again so more people can eat. We don't need to do that. We can make more pie. That's the argument. Now, people in power don't like that argument. And one of the reasons Scott Adams has a following is that people aren't hearing that argument because let's make more pie takes us together, takes us together. But that's not how you win. I win because you're worse.

I win because you're a threat. I win because of whatever you don't like about me or what I'm not telling you or how I'm lacking. I'm nothing compared to her or him. That's how you win. There is no advantage in cooperation or getting to a better place. The galvanizing issue, I believe, is fentanyl and the cartels. I've never seen anybody get away with anything like the Mexican cartels are getting away with. And even that, we can't combat together. Why? Because right now, the right is afraid if they work with the Democrats on combating the problem, it's going to help Biden.

they work with the Democrats on combating the problem that's going to help Biden. And the Democrats are either inept or they don't think they can get it through Congress in any meaningful way because nobody wants to allow them to achieve something. So we're getting killed by this drug that is nothing like ever. I'm old. Remember, I remember us before the internet, before cell phones, okay? Before even automatic channel changers, okay? Clickers. I remember things. I lived through crack, okay? My father fought it.

It was one of the signature problems he had on his watch. I've never seen anything like this. I've never seen people die unlike this. I've never seen the mistaken overdoses. I could tell you stories that would scare the shit out of you. And we're not fighting it with everything we have. We have to get to a better place. These conversations and getting past people's unreasonable apprehensions and fears is the key. That's why I had Scott Adams on, was to try to generate a conversation about something that matters even if he doesn't.

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You're going to need a subscription. It's required. Plus, price is going to vary based on product and subscription plan. So let's have the conversation right now. So let's have the conversation right now. I bring in cartoonist, author, creator of Dilbert, host of the YouTube show Real Coffee with Scott Adams, the man himself. Thank you very much for taking the opportunity. Hey, thanks for having me, Chris. All right, so let's get the big things out of the way. People who are new to the situation and have heard that one soundbite say, the guy's racist.

What do you say to people who heard that and say, the guy's racist. What do you say to people who heard that and say, Scott Adams is racist? Are you? No. In fact, I often say it would be stupid to judge people any way other than individually. You would just be hurting yourself. You'd just be cutting yourself off from half of the good people in the world or some number. So judging people by anything other than their individual character never makes sense. And certainly I wouldn't say that. Did you know that this was going to happen? I intentionally courted controversy.

But it's something I do often in my live streams. And I was trying to attract attention so that I could have a productive argument. Now, there's a frame or a context here that probably almost none of your audience is familiar with, and that would really change how they see this. Could I give you a little context? Please. That's what the whole conversation is about, Scott. Give me the context. All right. All right. So if you knew me as a cartoonist and all you heard was the headline, you did a racist rant, and then you heard the video, there's really no other way to interpret it than the worst possible way. And I would agree with that.

probably had more impact than the world, is some of these books, which are from philosophy to persuasion to how to deal with this situation, actually, and other online controversies and arguments. But this one's the most effective one. This is in the domain of personal growth, personal success. So I'm actually one of the most, I would say, noted people in the field of success and the tools of success. In fact, if somebody wrote a book on success today, they would almost have to reference my work. It's pretty much pervasive in other work as well. So if you knew that my background included being a hypnotist, If you knew that I work in the self-development specific individual success field, and that I'm noted for that. And you know that I like to court controversy because that's part of persuasion. You do a little hyperbole, your energy comes to you, and then you reframe it, which is what I'll do today for your guests.

Then you reframe it, and then everybody leaves happy. So that was the model. What I did not count on is that my audience, which is, they know me, so they would know what I was up to. In fact, they knew right away. As soon as I said it, my audience said, all right, what are you doing? What kind of play is this? What's the long game? And, of course, I was explaining it to them the entire time. But what happened was it got bigger than I expected. It became a worldwide cancellation. So I had to wait a little while, let all the noise dissipate,

let the energy dissipate a little bit. And then I thought, well, this is about the time. And you're actually kind of the perfect person to talk to. I just want people to know, you know, I called you because I said, I got to know why you were doing this. Because I know your work and you're too smart. And I've never ever heard you saying things that were like David Duke. And you had to know that the outcry would be huge and that the intentions would be assumed.

So I had to know why you did it. Yeah. And that's why I have you on tonight. Yeah. So tell me. Right, right. So obviously the hyperbole I used, get away from black people, there's no way to do that. And, you know, I don't even recommend it.

It's not really a good idea. So that's what makes it high energy. It's sort of like when Trump says, if the windmills, if the wind stops blowing and the windmills stop turning, your TV won't work. I'm pretty sure he knows that's not the case. But it makes everybody go, what? You're wrong. You don't understand. And then all the energy comes to him.

I don't know that he knows that, but you do. But you do. And you're not going to get the defense that he will. With Trump, people sometimes write him off by, look, he just says things. You're a smart guy. We've all been reading and watching for years. So you knew it was going to go like this, and you still did it. No, I knew it would go, it would create controversy in a small way, but I thought it would stay within my audience.

Because my audience usually understands me, and they kind of get the whole thing. So there's a reframe coming. They haven't heard yet. But the notion is that race relations are terrible. The context was that there was a Rasmussen poll, which I did not rely on for my comments, but I discussed it as a starting off point. So the Rasmussen poll said there were some alarming percentage of black Americans. It was a smallish sample, but it was still statistically within 8% of margin of error. They said that something like 26% would not say that it's okay to be white. Now, I have a problem with the question because I think everybody interpreted it differently. So we can, if you would allow me, I don't believe the poll is important to the point. So, you know, after I talked about it, you'll see on the comments,

that I said the way things are going. The way things are going, the signals are blaring in every way. Social media shows an anti-whiteness bias. Businesses do, ESG, CRT, DEI, all these corporate and government things. They all start with sort of white people, which is true, were the source of racism for years, still largely the source of continuing systemic racism, which I very much agree is a big deal, especially in the schools, especially in the teachers' unions. I think that's the worst place for systemic racism. And so you've got this entire environment, every commercial, every TV show, it's just everywhere. Now, what your audience might not know is that when I complained about black people having a bad

attitude about white people, that was me saying nothing about black people. It was saying, I don't want to be around people who have a bad feeling about me. Now, that's the only point that everybody should agree with. If we can only agree with that point, if you can stay away from people who have a bad opinion of you, that's a pretty good idea. How you know which they are, don't look at every black person and imagine that they're all the same. The most ridiculous thing anybody could imagine is that if I talk about black America, that I ever mean all of them. How could anybody think that? If I say black people like hip-hop music, I don't mean all of them. Like, nobody would talk that way.

So when you see somebody say something that's like a global generalization, they're either using a shorthand, and they assume you know it doesn't mean everyone, or they're trying to get you riled up. I was kind of in between those two, a little bit of both. I think that you needed to do some kind of huge disclaimer on it, Scott, where you're saying, I'm about to say something to try to rile people up. The only thing I'll push back on is, you know, I've read you saying that this was a poll that changed course for you.

You know, Rasmussen is not an outlet that we will reference as a polling outfit here or when I was at CNN. Nobody really uses their polls because they're a little notorious for clickbait and doing things just for provocative sake. So as I said to you when I spoke to you before, I don't know why you would ever take anything they say as the truth of the matter. they say as the truth of the matter. But more importantly, more importantly, when you put the message out there, there has to be some accountability for it because you know how fragile our fabric is. And the idea of white people get away from black people, there are a lot of people who really believe that, Scott. And now you are counted among them.

How do you counteract that? Well, Chris, the thing that your audience probably doesn't know, which is the hilarious thing that came out of this, is that it's almost entirely white people that canceled me. It might be entirely, because they're the ones who own the publishing companies and the newspapers. You don't think black people were offended? Tell me. Let me tell you. So far, every black person I've talked to, and of course a lot of people contacted me, said that they said, hey, what's going on? And I said, look at the context. They would look at the context and they said, oh, I get what you're saying.

That was kind of alarming the way I first heard it, but I get what you're saying. So black America is actually completely fine, both conservative and liberal, if they see the context. White America kind of acts like you. Let's talk about this poll. Why did you say the poll? Why did you say the thing? I just said the poll wasn't important. It was just a jumping off point.

And you shouldn't take any of the hyperbole seriously. It was meant to get people riled up. I just misjudged how much. Now, in terms of accountability, I got canceled globally. Have I complained? That's accountability. I haven't complained once. I've simply described it. I did some things. I triggered a series of events. Other people have to be responsible for their roles, but I'm fully responsible for mine. So if global cancellation is my price for free speech, it was worth it. Yeah, I'm probably the only white man in America who has free speech today, because I can say whatever the hell I want, and I can't get

further canceled. So I've had this insanely, weirdly good experience out of this that I can't explain. Black people are contacting me and saying, come over to the barbecue, you know, let's talk, and all these things. But the main goal of all of this was the following reframe, now that I have your attention. You have been saying that you want to reframe now that I have your attention. You have been saying that you want to reframe the conversation, that this is not the way you wanted it to go. But I do think that we have to take one step just in terms of the fix before we can get to forward. I understand why you say that it's been mostly white liberals who came after you, but I'm on social media too. You have plenty of people of color who were pissed about what you said and feel that

either you're demeaning it or you're cheapening the situation. Even that thing about I identify as black, that's going to be seen as disrespectful by a lot of people. So you may be getting invited to the barbecue, but do you believe you owe people who were offended an apology? You know, because I did it intentionally. I offended people so that they'd be drawn to the solution. So, no. Certainly, I don't hurt people for no reason, and I don't think anybody was hurt by saying that I would feel uncomfortable around people who didn't like me. Is that offensive? So here's my experience.

No, it's the other part. But the other part is hyperbole. No, it's the other part. But the other part is hyperbole. As far as I can tell, black America, when I talk to them and I say, well, that was hyperbole, they say, yeah, I know that. And then they talk about the poll. I find that white Americans won't let go because they have to signal they've got to peacock the situation. But black Americans were actually just interested.

Like, wait, why are you saying this? What's up with this? What's the context? And once I explained the context, it's about how people feel about me. And if, would you move, let's say, turn it around. If you were black, would you move into a neighborhood that you knew had a high percentage of racists in it if you had a choice. Now you can't tell who's a racist and who's not, but you're probably going to want to feel more comfortable if you knew there was some zip code with fewer of them in it. Now there's no practical way that we can separate black and white. Nobody wants to do that. I literally don't know anybody who wants to do that. So that should have been

viewed as hyperbole, but I have to admit, because I put a little emotion behind it, it seemed like it wasn't. So probably the energy I put into it changed how people received it. So here's what I'm going to offer. Instead of an apology, which I think does nothing for black America, I'm going to offer a specific reframe, which is what I do, by the way. That's what several of my books are about. That's what the newest one's about. It's about reframing a situation so you can get out of a mental trap. Now, the mental trap is that we have this worsening racial divide. And I think the problem primarily is that we've monetized racial divide.

If you can get more clicks, I mean, this is a perfect example. My situation got lots of clicks. Everybody's like, hey, racial divide. Let's get some more of that. I mean, I'm on your show because of racial divide. We've literally monetized racism so that everybody can be a little bit madder at each other. If you monetize racial divide, you're only going to get more of it. I did a poll on Twitter just earlier today. Now, of course, the Twitter poll was highly unscientific, but when it's nine to one, it's selling you a little bit. And nine to one, I asked people, just everybody on Twitter, do you believe that there's a uh there's more anti-white sentiment there's a trend toward it

and nine to one said yes now those are mostly people who follow me on twitter so it's probably 80 conservatives even though i'm not conservative i'm left to bernie but my audience is mostly conservative so within let's say probably mostly white uh it was a nine-to-one feeling that there's a worsening of anti-white behavior. Now, the obvious reasons for that are that there's a backwards-looking philosophy that's taken hold in the country. It's not good for black people. It's not good for white people. It's not good for anybody. And it goes like this.

for anybody. And it goes like this. If you're looking backwards at the history of, let's say, discrimination, and you're using that as your focus, you can never accomplish anything looking backwards. So I'd like to reframe that to what it would look like to look forward. And the reframe looks like this. The conservatives and black America have one problem in common, which is our school systems are absolutely broken, completely broken, in my opinion. And I think that's an interest where they could work together. They have exactly the same goal, probably more choice, but there are probably other ways to school choice.

There's probably other ways to go about it. But if you can get a handle on that, that's number one. So we should not be talking about our differences, and we should not be talking as much about the past. By the way, talking about the past is important. So you don't want to lose black history. You don't want to lose the education. But if you're focusing on it, there isn't a single person in the world who knows anything about success, personal or business or any kind of success, who would say that's going to get you a good result. But if you learn to focus on the future using the tools of self-improvement, anybody, black or white, who is low income, as long as they can get that good school, because that's the most important part, they can use the tools of success to slice through systemic racism like it doesn't exist. An example would be, let's say

you're a young black kid, but you managed to get a good education. If you go to a Fortune 500 company and say, I'm here to apply for the job, you go right to the top of the list. That's the current situation. Because companies are dying to get more diversity. They really need it. So there is a path and a strategy, if you're black, that is really clean, and it'll just take you through systemic racism. You're going to get some cobwebs on you. It's not going to be easy, but you're going to slice right through it. And everybody would have the same possibility. So it's not a black thing. It's just a tools thing. So what I teach is the tools of success. My book, How to Fail Almost Everything and Still Win Big, and my next one coming up, Reframe Your Brain, are all about how to reframe your situation so that you have a forward-looking set of tools.

For example, you'd want to Google, if you're trying to figure out what I'm talking about, about these tools, Google talent stack. That comes from me. Systems better than goals. That's a good thing. You would learn about reciprocity as an operating system for your life. Instead of seeing what you can take, see what you can give. That's a forward-looking philosophy. It's not a backward philosophy.

I'm going to give people a bunch of stuff, and then maybe something returns. Maybe it doesn't, but that's my philosophy. For example, for years. Come on, let's do this. A ton of people want to talk to you, Scott. You get this last point, then we'll go to break and get some calls. Go ahead. So to the point of reciprocity, there were a whole bunch of black people that I've helped personally and professionally over the years. All of them, every one of them came to me privately and said, oh, I see what you said. I'm cool with it. I just want you to know I'm cool with it. That's reciprocity. Now, if you can teach kids how to have these tools, how to build a talent stack that's a set of talents that works well together, not just a vertical, I'm a real

good doctor, but I've got a bunch of skills like you and I do. We have a bunch of skills that let us have this conversation, right? So teaching people how to group their skills, have systems instead of just mere goals, and how to have a strategy such as a strategy of maximizing. If you're a black kid, you use a strategy of taking advantage of the fact that corporations want you. They want you badly. So there is a path, but it requires that we stop looking at the past because I think looking at the past is what makes all these three-letter acronyms so distasteful to white America. And black America needs to know both the costs and the benefits of anything they're doing. Everybody does, right?

Just ordinary. And one of the costs is that this backward-looking philosophy of what were the problems, who caused it, who's the demon, who's the victim, just never works. It can't work. It will never work in any domain for any person except maybe in the short run. And people who work for a living on these programs are going to get paid. That's about it. One point of absolute cooperation must be that we got to get to a better place. And what I'm not going to do is censor ideas that I know are not one-offs. And there are too many

people who are hitting on a lot of the themes that you were for it to be a one-off or an aberration or even hyperbole. There's a lot to be discussed. We got to have more conversation if we want to have more progress. Scott Adams, thank you very much for taking the opportunity. I'm a phone call away whenever you want to talk about what's coming up next and why or if anything else is being misunderstood. Thank you for indulging my audience and taking their questions. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. So now, with the benefit of context and understanding that he didn't make this up, he may have made up his rationale. But Scott Adams did not make up these concerns that whites are being marginalized,

that the idea of advancement in America now means less for the majority. I think that's a dangerous thought. I think it's an inaccurate thought, but that's on the politicians to make the case on the left. And obviously they're not doing it to the satisfaction of this ever-growing number of people. Remember, Trump lost the election,

but he got the most votes anybody's ever gotten for president except Joe Biden. And now you have Ron DeSantis who is refining the methods and playing to what is a legitimate campaign issue, which is, is this group of people who happen to be the majority, are they being done wrong if the left gets in again? That's potent medicine. So I hope that you were able to hear this with an open mind, not about Scott Adams, but about the issues that are floating in his cartoonish thought bubble about this. Because Dilbert doesn't mean a damn to me. But this conversation and us getting to a better place together means everything. So thank you for watching and taking time.

Please subscribe. Please subscribe. Please follow. If you want to be a critical thinker, wear your independence, get the free agent merch. I want to get a kitty of money together. We're getting there. I think I'm around like 10, 15 grand, but I want to get like 50 grand. And then I want to start giving it out to people through our own kind of communal choices about who wins little polls and stuff about what we think the money should go to. All right? I'll see you soon.

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