The Chris Cuomo Project - Brian Tyler Cohen on Democratic Policies vs. Republican Fear Tactics

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

Brian Tyler Cohen (host, “No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen") joins Chris Cuomo to delve into the key issues facing the Democratic Party, including the border crisis, healthcare costs, and reproductive rights. They discuss how Democrats can better communicate their legislative achievements, such as the Inflation Reduction Act and the Infrastructure Law, while addressing challenges posed by Republican strategies of demagoguery and fearmongering. The conversation also touches on the impact of media narratives, highlighting how right-wing media often skews public perception and creates division, and the importance of focusing on policies that benefit everyday Americans. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Join Chris Ad-Free On Substack: http://thechriscuomoproject.substack.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brian Tyler Cohen, he's smart. He is the future of the Democratic Party, not as some office holder, not as any pundit, not as some mechanic from somebody's campaign or administration. He's a citizen activist. And he is a big deal and getting bigger all the time on social media. The question is why? Why millions of subscribers? Why is he kicking my ass?

I'll tell you why. Because he is building a constituency within a party of young Democrats who are concerned and who don't love just on the basis of party, but on policy. So he is developing a new way to take on the right. He does not get down into the mud. He does not play the game of which is worse. He points out what makes his side better. Isn't that refreshing? Even more so, it's working. So how does BTC, Brian Tyler Cohen, deal with the problems of his party,

with the negatives of this election on his ticket's side, and the reality that is better as he thinks they may be. Why is this race so close? Let's get after it. Support for The Chris Cuomo project comes from Shopify. I'm wearing my belief in Shopify, okay? The free agent gear I'm selling through Shopify. Why? Because I trust them.

They're good at what they do. Free agent matters to me. It's how we're raising money to crowd source contributions to efforts that we care about. For instance, when we gave money to the kids who were affected in Gaza by all the bombing, that was 10 grand that came from the money I've made selling free agent merch. Shopify is the global commerce platform

that helps you at every stage of your business. You get your launch, your online shop stage, you got the first real life store stage, all the way to the, hey, did we just hit a million orders? I'm nowhere near that. But Shopify is there to help you grow. Businesses that grow, grow with Shopify. You can sign up.

You can get a $1 a month trial period at Shopify.com slash Chris C. That's all lowercase, Chris C, all lowercase. Go to Shopify.com slash Chris C, grow your business. No matter what stage you're in, Shopify can help. Shopify.com slash Chris C. Brian, thank you very much for taking the opportunity. Chris, happy to be here.

You're getting to be a big shot, and I believe for good reason. Though label-wise, you know how I feel that I'm not a big fan of them, but they often refer to you as an independent progressive. What does that mean? I thought you were a lefty. So I'm on the left for sure. I think independent in the sense that I'm not part of the mainstream media as we know it. I mean, I don't have a boss.

I do everything on my own. I kind of rely on my own. I don't get to hide behind a network when I'm saying something. So I think that amps up the pressure on those of us in the independent space because I don't get to lean on some broader network to give me cover if something goes wrong.

It's my reputation on the line. If I say something wrong, if I do something wrong, so, you know, but that's what I think we go by in terms of like the independent progressive. I'm a progressive, I'm also in the independent space. So you are a Democrat. I would consider myself a Democrat, yeah. And is it unfair for me to say that progressive Democrat

means that you are far left feeding the kids on campus who are pro-Hamas, that that's what the progressive left is? Is that fair? No, I think that, look, I think you'll have people farther to the left of me who call me a neoliberal shill, and I think you have people to the right of me who are going to call me a communist, Marxist, Stalinist leftist. So I think it, you know, it kind of all is in the eyes of the beholder here. But I actually, on my own channel, don't really go into international affairs. I cover domestic politics. Yeah, but it bleeds into it, right?

When they're running around on the college campuses, you have to deal with it. My point is this. Why am I playing with definitions? Because I'm trying to get a sense of how you see the democratic state of play, like where the party is and how you believe it's doing and who you believe it's serving. So, okay, so let's take that piecemeal.

I mean, I think in terms of who it's serving, I think it's clear by virtue of what the Democratic Party has done with the last few years in power, who it's serving. You look at, for example, let's take the baseline, the first Trump administration, for example, when Trump was in office, their major legislative achievement was a tax cut that overwhelmingly favored millionaires and billionaires. That's what they did with their political capital. It was one major piece of legislation where

overwhelmingly the benefits were felt by the ultra rich. Look at what the Democrats did with their short time in power. With their two years in the majority in Congress, it was the American Rescue Plan, the Inflation Reduction Act, CHIPS Act, PACT Act, infrastructure law, the Gun Safety Bill, Reauthorizing Violence Against Women Act. So I think it goes to show by virtue of actions and not just what people are saying, what the priority is. And then you look at, you know, more recently,

we've seen insulin capped to $35, inhalers capped to $35, of actions and not just what people are saying, what the priority is. And then you look at, you know, more recently, we've seen insulin capped to $35, inhalers capped to $35, junk fees eliminated from banks, airlines, you have to immediately give, you know, when a flight is canceled, for example, refunds are given immediately. So these are things that impact regular people. Are they not, are they as sexy as like the major news items

that we usually hear about? No, is that why we actually don't hear about most of this stuff? Of course. But I think when you look at what's actually happening, you know, this little stuff on a day by day basis, it becomes overwhelmingly clear who the Democrats are working for. The problem is, you just laid out a message that's much more effective than your candidates. And look, I think the independent media space is important for that reason. I'm able to say what I want in a way that I think is going to be resonant with my audience or resonant with audiences more broadly. I'm not really interested so much in terms of what candidates are saying.

I actually am just more focused on what my messaging is going to be in terms of promoting the agenda that I want to see put into place. You want to beat Trump, right? Do I want to beat Trump, you said? Yeah. A thousand percent. Do you think Joe Biden is messaging in a way that will create a victory? Generally, yes. Is there work to be done? Yes. I actually think the biggest thing that's going to harm Donald Trump is Donald Trump himself.

I think that he is his own worst enemy. I mean, he goes out there on the stump and he's railing against, what was it, the most recent thing? Electrocutions and shark attacks. And then, of course, vows of retaliation and his revenge tour. I mean, that's him kind of showing people who he is and what a second Trump term is gonna be. I think in terms of what Biden's doing, it's difficult for the exact reason that I just laid out is a lot of the stuff that he's saying is not gonna be able to compete with Donald Trump standing up there on the stump

and railing against being a dictator on day one or terminating the constitution. It's hard to make $35 insulin compete with Donald Trump saying he's going to be a dictator on day one and expecting the news to cover the former. People are angry. And a lot of the people- And by the way, to that point, people are angry. What does Donald Trump use? What does he leverage to help himself the most?

He's a demagogue. He tries to get people afraid. I mean, this has been a tactic of the Republican Party and conservatives and right-wing media more broadly for years. I mean, you know it. When do migrant caravans become a topic of conversation? Every year right around September, October, there's a reason that demagoguery works.

And there's a reason that they use it over and over and over again. I mean, going back decades, we were talking about the first scapegoats were gay people. Then when it became too popular to, you know, when gay marriage, for example, became too popular an issue, then they had to move over to trans issues.

And just anybody who they can demagogue, who they can scapegoat is what they do because fear is a really potent tactic. trans issues and just anybody who they can demagogue, who they can scapegoat is what they do because fear is a really potent tactic. It's a really potent tool to wield, especially against a base that has been groomed to fear exactly whatever they bring forward. There is a reason that we don't know the positive opposite to the word demagogue. I do believe though that it speaks to a game that is played on both sides, maybe not the same way, maybe not to the same degree.

But the reason that these things shift is often about complementary C-O-M-P-L-E-M-E-N-T-A-R-Y tactics meaning you move from gay marriage to trans rights or whatever, however you want to expand the culture issue, the left says the right doesn't want these people to exist. The right wants them to have no rights. The right wants them to go away. The right reacts to that by saying the left is trying to force all of us to be trans and to make it seem

like this is normal and that there aren't just two genders, that you don't come out of the chute one of two ways. So they work off each other to create a dynamic of tension that I believe only suits the two parties and not the people at large. Fair criticism? To a degree. I mean, that's kind of like the way the ecosystem works, but I think also a lot of what people cling onto is the most extreme positions.

And so they'll find somebody espousing the most extreme position and use that as the basis that they're gonna attack on their side. And so it's always just ramped up to a 10 every time. But I think more broadly, I mean, the asymmetry is clear. If we're gonna stick with this example for example on on LGBT issues I think that it would just make sense to just like who cares I guess would be my answer to everything and it feels weird for

someone like me on the left to have to plead with those on the right for their mentality to be who cares because these are the people who predicate their political ideology on like party of personal freedoms right and so who cares because these are the people who predicate their political ideology on like party of personal freedoms, right? And so who cares what anybody is doing with their behind, you know, behind closed doors or in their bedrooms? Like who cares? I agree with you if that's where it ended. What they say is you care because you're trying to make my kids believe that it's as okay to be transgender as it is to be the gender that they were born,

and I don't want that, and you want me to call you things that don't make any sense, so you're forcing it on me, but you are correct in that it is a distraction from things that matter more in terms of the common concerns of this government and of this polity of the people in this country. And I believe that's why we have the culture wars in the first place is they're a beautiful distraction from what matters more. I completely agree with you. And that's why I don't really cover this stuff.

I don't really delve into culture wars. I mean, like I don't I don't I've been invited on to on to, you know, some of these right wing podcasts. I can't even their names are escaping me. I can't even pull up the names right now. But I've been invited onto the shows, and I don't view myself as being the foil to some of these people because I don't delve

into culture wars because I think that actually is the terrain that they want to fight on because it's a distraction. And when we talk about the actual issues that actually benefit people, it's not what bathroom somebody's walking into. It's not how somebody identifies as. It's not what bathroom somebody's walking into. It's not how somebody identifies as. It's not like it's not any of this bullshit. It's it's what are costs for American people?

What does health care cost? What kind of legislation is being passed? What's the what are what are our immigration policies? What are what's happening in the courts right now? Is the rule of law being upheld, for example, in a disparate way between certain defendants and others. I think that's the stuff that is far more important. That's the stuff we should be speaking about. I think there's a reason that a lot of people want to dig into culture wars and talk about Christmas cups at Starbucks because it helps them on their terrain.

And the Pride Parade. This is the Pride month, right? So this is the new one. You can't find anybody who's ignoring it on the right. They get too many days, there's too much of it, it's forced on us. But if you say, you know, at what point does this become homophobic or bigoted,

then they get very angry at you. No, no, no, I don't care. I just don't want you to put it on me. Well, if you care so much about having it put on you, it's because you worry about what it is and you think it is immoral, you just don't care. I just don't want you to put it on me. Well, if you care so much about having it put on you, it's because you worry about what it is and you think it is immoral. You just don't want to say it because then you fall into the bigot trap.

But people's feelings have always, the visceral has always overwhelmed in politics. That's why oratory is so important. That's why your grand messenger like Mario Cuomo mattered, even if you didn't agree with his politics because of how he moved you. And you have to find the crux, the nexus of where message and the motivation of policy come together. The big problem I believe you guys have in this election is that nexus which is found on the southern border. That is the one non-bullshit issue that I don't understand why the Biden administration

allowed it to go so bad for so long. Help me understand. Well, I can't speak to what their thoughts were other than the fact that Joe Biden put himself forward over a year ago as a negotiating partner for the right on this issue. I mean, they put together a coalition of Kyrsten Sinema, Chris Murphy, and James Langford, who certainly know a vowed liberal on this issue, and they spent months and

months and months and months hammering out a deal. Again, that was the most conservative border deal that any Democrat would have considered and didn't even include any, it was all, there was no comprehensive immigration reform. It was just border security. All in exchange for aid to Ukraine, by the way, that passed anyway. So the fact that they didn't take this up

shows that they don't want this issue to be solved. Donald Trump had full control of government when he became president. Why didn't they solve it? Other than just using stopgap measures that were solely predicated on pandemic powers? But there was no comprehensive. The message was enough. Build a wall was enough. The message was enough. The message was always going to be enough. And the fact that James

Lankford could stand in the well of the Senate and say, if you solve this in an election year, I'll make sure your life is a living hell. That gives the whole game away. So it's hard for any of these Republicans to come forward. And yeah, the border is a tough issue for Democrats, absolutely. But let's not pretend that Republicans don't know that. Let's not pretend that if that issue was solved in accordance with that bill that James Langford negotiated, that would have fixed it. And then that would have taken away a potent campaign issue for Republicans. They know what they're doing. Oh, look, there's no question that problems work better than solutions because remember, cooperation is a weakness these days.

Opposition is the legitimate position. You put me in there and I'll stop Cohen from doing anything. That used to never get you elected. Now it's the straightest path. However, however, my critique of the Democrats is you are playing the right fringes game. You're allowing them to dictate the state of play. You constantly react to Trump, and you have forgotten what makes you better to a majority of the country,

which is why you have the registration advantage. It's not just union infrastructure. And Biden should know this best of all because he lived it, right? He knows the glory, the halcyon days of the Democratic Party. His mistake is twofold. One, on the border, he undid executive actions that were just straight political vindictiveness when he got in, destroyed all these home country agreements, remain in Mexico, which wasn't the biggest deal, but it was symbolic. and he waited too long to take unilateral action that would have sent the best signal.

He let it fester for years, I believe, in too much of a nod to the progressive left. The second mistake is forgetting what made you people better to the American people, which was showing what you articulated in the beginning. And instead of just ticking them off, we did this, we did that, we did this, it's got to be a part of a fundamental philosophy that you guys are about that is better than just tearing everything down, which is absolutely Trumpism. He calls it make America great again, but inherent in that is a reductive critique of the country that things are all terrible You guys used to make that case you would have great messengers who would say

Here's why we're better. Here's what we're about Here's how we can do it. Here's why all of us matter now You're playing the game of division and I do not think that bodes well going into this election. Well, perhaps. But you also have to consider the fact that a big element, just politically speaking, right? Because I think you made absolutely the right point in terms of the morality of all of this. But politically speaking, I think there is a big contingent of the country and it creates this coalition of people on, those Nikki Haley voters, for example,

all the way to folks on the left. A lot of their support for Joe Biden is predicated on their contempt for someone like Donald Trump and rightfully so. And so I think it's gotta be a two-pronged approach. It's not just the fact, for example, that Democrats are better on these issues, whether it's got to be a two-pronged approach. It's not just the fact, for example, that Democrats are better on these issues, whether it's the issue of abortion, whether it's the issue of gun violence,

whether it's the issue of health care, of climate change, whatever, you know, union membership, whatever it is, Democrats are with the American people on the vast majority of these issues. But it's also the fact that for a lot of people who don't necessarily agree with the Democrats on those issues, for whatever the reason may be, even maybe it's just the fact that political affiliation has become so intertwined with identity these days, and that's enough to stop a lot of lifelong Republicans who may despise Donald Trump from considering voting for Joe Biden because it's become such a deeply ingrained part of identity.

For those people, if you can exacerbate or exploit the points at which Donald Trump is just so disgusting to them, then if that's a tool that's at your disposal, then use it. But I think this does have to be a two-pronged approach where it's got to be espousing the virtues of what Democrats have done, especially with their limited time in office. I named the legislative achievements, but we have 15 million jobs added. In fact, in my entire lifetime, there has not been a single Republican administration that's created more jobs than a Democrat. There's not been a single Republican administration that's had a better economy than a Democratic administration. So it's exploiting that, but it's also, you know, punching down against Donald Trump, who is the weakest candidate and

the most dangerous candidate that we've had in modern American history. So what does it mean that he's so close to winning again? I think to go back to a media critique, I mean, look, you have half of the country who consumes media. Our media ecosystems have become so bifurcated right now. And I'm in that. I'm part of the left-wing media ecosystem the amount of people who watch me on the right is dwindling you know if

there are any but I think the fact that that we live in two alternate universes of reality I mean you heard Kellyanne Conway say debut this this concept of alternative facts that's what they live every day how many people in right-wing media have heard the fact that this border deal that was negotiated was negotiated by James Lankford himself? How many know that the reason that it wasn't adopted was because Donald Trump sent out his clarion call for Republicans to attack it because he would rather have the issue as opposed to the solution? Information facts don't reach people in the same way that they used to. And I think as so long as you have this hermetically sealed bubble protecting people from reality,

protecting people from facts, they're never going to get the full picture. And they're going to walk away from Donald Trump thinking, you know, they're going to walk away from the day's news thinking that Donald Trump has done no wrong, that for example, he's the victim of some political persecution, even though it was a jury of 12 New Yorkers who found him guilty on all 34 criminal counts, you know, they're going to think that he's some messiah who should be likened to Jesus Christ, even though again the issue at hand in this trial was the fact that he falsified business records related to a hush money payout for an affair he paid to a, for a hush money payout to a porn star he paid

while his wife was at home with their infant son. I mean, like none of this information is actually going to reach people. And I think that's the, that's the fatal flaw with our media these days. Yeah. I mean, look, the dueling prosecutions is just, it's anything that plays to battle to the bottom is bad for Democrats. That case would never been brought if it's bad for Democrats. That case would never been brought if it weren't Donald Trump.

Alvin Bragg told you that in his campaign. Alvin Bragg is a DA who has never found a felony that he doesn't like to make a misdemeanor, right? 70% of the cases that have come across, he's reduced. This one, he enhanced to 34 felonies when it was best a single misdemeanor. But I mean, it had basis in the law. I know, but it's not the kind of case you bring.

Just because something has a basis in law, there's gotta be a policy that motivates prosecution of those kinds of cases. It's called prosecutorial discretion. And you've never heard of a case like that one for good reason. Same way, we've never heard of an ATF violation, the one they just put on Hunter Biden and gave him three felonies for it.

I've been studying this for 25 years. I've been a lawyer longer than that. I don't never heard of a case like this. Why? Because they use the ATF form as an aggravating factor in a case against you because of what you use the weapon to do. And that's not what they're doing They're just going after because it's hunter Biden Alvin Bragg campaign. There's gonna go after Trump

I believe it alienates people and anything that plays the alienation game is bad for Democrats I believe that Democrats strongest space is the toughest space which is bringing people Together no one's talking love. No one's talking love. No one's talking community. No one's talking about shared beliefs over these manufactured differences. And I think that's because of your messenger. And I think that, you know, having Kamala Harris as the backstop to Joe Biden,

I think that's gonna lose you a bunch of independence that you need. I think that could be the tale of a defeat. If Joe Biden loses, and I know statistically he should not, but if he loses, I think that's going to be the epitaph is going to be that, well, you know, people not sure Biden's going to make it through. And Kamala Harris, nobody wants her to be president. Is that on the Democrats for keeping the ticket the way it is? No, it's not. I don president. Is that on the Democrats for keeping the ticket

the way it is? No, it's not. I don't think that's on the Democrats for keeping the ticket the way it is. Look, regardless of who it is, it could be, you could put Mother Teresa in, that person is going to be vilified the second that Republicans get their hands on them.

I mean, think about what happens as soon as Democrats gain some modicum of prominence, Republicans attack. I mean, from, you know, Hillary Clinton to—look, remember what Kevin McCarthy said about Hillary Clinton back I think in 2015, I believe it was, where the whole point of the Benghazi select committee was to hurt Hillary Clinton's poll numbers. As soon as they see an opening where a Democrat has some national prominence, they move to define them immediately.

So it doesn't matter whether it's— and you also know too that Hillary Clinton was immensely popular before she became the Democratic nominee for president. So Republicans will attack regardless of who it is. There is no person too virtuous. I mean you couldn't get a person more virtuous than Barack Obama. Look at how he was attacked. You remember all of these bogus scandals from the color suit he wore to the type of mustard he ate. There is no person they won't attack. So we can't put this on Joe Biden or Kamala Harris because who's gonna go in that Republicans are gonna be happy with, first of all?

And, uh, I think- Well, it's not the Republicans, though. It's the independents. I think Kamala Harris scares off independents. Um, and- Kamala Harris is right now on, like, engaged in a nationwide tour talking to young people, primarily about the issue of abortion. I think that there's no better thing that she could be doing right now than kind of discussing the one issue that has Republicans on their heels, unlike any other issue.

Yeah, she shouldn't define it that way though. And I know she doesn't. I'm just telling you as a talking point, it's not abortion. It's reproductive rights. Because once the government says they have the ability to legislate how you control your own body, abortion is just one manifestation of that. You don't know where that legal ability can take them. And I think that has been a triggering mechanism. Look, in my family, right, I have no excuse when it comes to recognizing feminine strength, right? My mother was always the center of the family.

She was the only person that could make my father shut up. I got three sisters that are without question the most qualified people in the Cuomo family. It's just the men talk a lot. The women are far superior. I got two daughters, I got a wife. I'm surrounded by strong women on my team. This issue has been a game changer.

And the only reason it's quiet is because the right doesn't want to talk about it. And the left, once again, doesn't tell its story well enough. This is not just abortion. We don't know what this ruling means in terms of what a state can now say about a woman's body, not a man's body, a woman's body.

And that is powerful. Reproductive rights is the first time we've seen a right taken away. And that is very impressive to a lot of women if you make the case. Yeah. And I think that a lot of people are, I mean, I think the point that it's not just abortion rights, it's Republicans have tried to attack

even the right to interstate travel. And we're seeing a lot of these anecdotal pieces of evidence come forward. I mean, there was a young girl in Mississippi, 12 years old, who was raped. Her parents didn't know if she would qualify for the state's exemption to the abortion ban. Even if they did qualify, it's unlikely any doctor would have actually performed the procedure given the high penalties for doing so. And so, this girl's in seventh grade and she has an eight-month-old child.

We saw a similar situation in Ohio. A 10-year-old girl was raped, had to consider traveling to Indiana. And in Texas, there was an instance where a young woman had a fetus with trisomy 18, which is a fatal genetic condition, couldn't get abortion care in Texas because Ken Paxton decided to appeal the exemption up to the Texas Supreme Court. So that was blocked. The examples just, there is no end to them. And I think it's proven especially potent. And there's a reason that Republicans

who will weigh in on anything, I mean, there is no Starbucks cup they won't weigh in on, have been especially quiet on this issue. Look, you're doing great. Every time since I've been on your podcast. I've been following you. Are you doing great? Your resonance is picking up.

You're moving from digital to just plain old media. I think that you're going to wind up being everywhere in the media for people. I believe that there's a big appetite for what you're offering Democrats, but you do have to own them, right? You say, well, I'm a progressive Democrat, but I don't just talk. You're a Democrat. If you're a Democrat, you got to be proud. You got to be loud. You got to make the case. And I think it's your biggest guy's weakness is, and I used to say the same thing to my brother, by the way. So don't take it personally. He used to get very upset at me. Also, I would say, you know, you guys just don't tell your story well enough you get defined and I know

That the right wants to have it both ways They want to say that the media is all out there for the left and you know, so they play the victim But then they get the most coverage So obviously both things can't be true But I do think you have to figure that out and you got to figure it out soon. You believe there's no chance that the ticket changes. No, no, it's not gonna happen. And nor do I think that, again,

this is going to my earlier point. I think that any Democrat who would be put in there, Republicans would figure out a way to swarm and destroy them. But the polls say that any other one beats them. Like, you know, but the polls say that any other Democrat does better than Biden against Trump. I mean, a poll is, you know, insofar as we can believe anything a poll says at any moment in time.

The reality is it is what it is. I mean, this is where we're at. Joe Biden, you know, is the nominee. There is no stepping away from this. So at this point, it's just a matter of moving forward and to your earlier point, telling our story. Do you think he should be out there more? I do. I think he should be out there more because if you look at the instances where

he has been out there, so much of the time where he's not out there creates this vacuum that is then filled with Republicans claiming that he's in the throes of cognitive decline, that he doesn't know his own name, that he can't tie his shoes, that he doesn't know what day of the week it is. And then we have these few instances, these instances few and far in between, where he goes up at the State of the Union, for example, and embarrasses Republicans. Or has these speeches like the one he did at D-Day, where he just does a stellar job. And even you have folks in the Reagan administration that are saying,

you can liken his speech a D-Day to that. So in the instances where he does come out, it reminds people if but for a fleeting moment that he is more than capable of doing the job as if his resume alone and the accomplishments that the administration has isn't enough, but reminds people that he can do the job. And I think that he should be going out there more, not just because it's a reminder to people,

but because then it makes any minor flubs. And it's Joe Biden we're talking about here. So there will be flubs. Yeah, he was always a gaff master, always. Yeah, it's gonna make those seem less precious, for example. I 100% believe that. Now, what I don't like is, I'm not a big fan of debates. My idea for a debate is,

I know this is gonna sound crazy, but I love it, is that one, obviously you need to have more of them, but there should be no moderator. And I'll tell you why. I know that sounds like a recipe for chaos. I don't know if you met Donald Trump. But here's why, Brian. This is why I believe it, okay? The American people are constantly underestimated, right, by the halls of power.

They know how someone's conducting themselves. So you have Trump and Biden, right? And Trump keeps talking over him. Trump's being an asshole, right? He's being himself. They see it. They get it. The moderator has always been just a vanity exercise for the network. They don't ever come up with any genius question

or anything, you know, because you can't make it about you. It's not about you as the moderator. So it's just kind of like a necessary, you know, instrument with timing and cutting mics. It's all bullshit. So it's just kind of like a necessary instrument with timing and cutting mics. It's all bullshit. I would go the other way and have it

where there's no moderator, but let's put that to the side. You'll never hear another news anchor say that by the way, but let's put that to the side. I do believe that I don't love debates and I think they're artificial and I think they give us an artificial measure and they're just another stunt in the campaign. But I think this one's actually going to matter.

This first debate, if Joe Biden doesn't come out there and do what you're suggesting he does when he's out there, I think that it's not about the party pushing him out. I think that he is going to have to have a really tough conversation with himself after this debate. If it's a bomb, I think he's got to think, if I really believe that Donald Trump is a danger to this country, am I the one best equipped to keep him from winning reelection? What do you think about the importance of this debate? And what do you think about the importance of this debate and what do you think about the answer to that question? I think in terms of the importance of this debate, I think the same thing that

happened in all of the other instances where Joe Biden's about to go up against Donald Trump or just go up at all and do anything is gonna come into play. I mean this is what I just spoke about. Republicans are already doing their level best to lower expectations for Biden by, again, claiming that he's in the throes of cognitive decline, that really they're helping level set expectations for Biden better than even Trump can. So I'm not worried about how he's going to perform. I've also seen Donald Trump lately. I mean, this guy has been railing against, you know, he thinks he's running against Barack Obama.

He thinks that World War II hasn't happened yet. He thinks that you need ID to buy bread. He's complaining about windmills, toilet pressure. He's... Sharks, electrocutions. I mean, like, if Joe... if you transpose what Donald Trump is saying onto Joe Biden, think about what Fox News would be saying about Joe Biden. They would be trying to check him into a mental institution. I know, but you can't play their game though, Brian. Listen, I asked somebody, I'm not gonna say who. You know who Ryan Garcia is? I don't.

So Ryan Garcia is this incredibly talented, but apparently mentally ill, certainly troubled boxer. He's gorgeous. The one who was endorsed by Trump recently who did he... Well I hold not for Trump's sake. No, no, no. I'm thinking of somebody else. This guy is a boxer, not a UFC guy. He just got arrested for busting up a hotel room. That's neither here nor there. But he believes really crazy shit, okay? And again, I believe it's maybe a function of disease

because I never heard him say anything like this before until recently, but elites eat babies, like really out there. Okay, that's not what's impressive. What's impressive is how many legit people in your world, but on the right say, you know, he predicted he was going to get arrested. You know, he said that these things would happen when he started talking about this. And I said, wait a minute, talking about what?

You believe that there's a baby eating cult out there. And they were like, well, I don't know. The problem is, and why you can't play this game, is that once people are of the mindset that anything they've been told is not true, they then are susceptible to believing anything could be true. And you cannot play that game and win on the left. You won't have your own people with you and you're not gonna have the persuadables. And you're never getting Trump space. And that's why I think it's important, we're not focused on the, I think the whole,

look, there's a reason that I focus most of my energy on YouTube, it's because that's where the biggest audience is. I'm not really, I don't really tweet that much because I understand that Twitter is really for soft influence, that's where the reporters are, but my focus is on persuasion with people more broadly. I mean, on my YouTube channel, I've got almost three million subscribers.

I reach anywhere from 75 to 95 million people a month. That's where my energy is, because that's where I think the vast majority of people who are able to be persuaded is, or people who can listen to my message and then bring that message out as tribunes, for example, to their circles and kind of spread the gospel that way. But I think our time has to be spent as effectively and efficiently as possible.

It's not reaching those people. It's not reaching the conspiracy theorists. You can spend so much time trying to deal with those people. Those people are not in the coalition that I'm working on right now. My focus right now is just kind of reaching Americans more broadly and just focusing on the people who are actually kind of ripe for the taking in terms of, you know, these are soft Republican voters, these are independents, these are Republicans, these are Democrats, for example, who may be deciding between Joe

Biden and the couch. That's my focus in all of this. How's it going? I don't really delve into like the far far right, the conspiratorial circles or anything like that. That's not really where I spend my time. Even though it's what gets so much traction in the digital space, so much so that the way we got into this problem of censorship, and it is real, is opportunity. So these platforms put the ads next to the stuff

that gets the most clicks. The stuff that gets the most clicks is the most provocative. The stuff that's the most provocative is the most evocative. The stuff that's the most evocative is enragement. Things that make people scared and angry win. The only other thing that works is sex, okay? Let's put that to the side because that's not what we're selling right now.

So they started doing that so much, so well that they wound up getting picky about what they let beyond there that screwed with it. And then the government got involved during the pandemic and made it even worse. So we have a very toxic dynamic. And I believe that social media caters more to the right fringe than to anything else. But you are a point of comparison that negates that premise because

your growth has been awesome. You are a big deal on YouTube. Having three, four million followers is humongous, puts you in the top 1%. How do you believe your reach game is going not just for BTC, but for the cause? I think that the fact that the channel has grown, and there's other channels as well who've grown pretty quickly, I think the fact that there has been such growth is a testament to the hunger there was on the left for some type of rebuttal to the deluge of bullshit that's kind of proliferating on the right. And so I think just right there, the fact that people are tuning into this stuff. So much of what I hear from people online is like, you watch the

news and because there's such an emphasis on both-sizes, people start to feel like they're losing their minds in the sense that, like, how many Trump supporters and diners who think that Democrats are a baby-eating cabal are there? And you're like, am I alone here? Where is everybody just focusing on common sense? And so I think what this progressive media ecosystem, aside from the mainstream media, because I think the mainstream media has for so long

allowed the right to be their assignment editors, basically. I mean, I think there were something like 69 front page New York Times stories about Hillary's emails. And then when Ivanka Trump did virtually the same thing, it came and went like a fart in a hurricane. So it's clear that the media allows the right to be their assignment editors. And so this is just like kind of a breath of fresh air to see folks on the left in a growing progressive media ecosystem be able to reach people and say

like, yeah, Donald Trump is a criminal. Look what he's done. And not have to equivocate it with, you know, 10 things about how the left is just as bad, or how Joe Biden's age is somehow equivalent to Donald Trump being a convicted felon also facing indictment in three other trials that include, among other things, blocking certification of a free and fair election. I totally get it. But again, then why is it so close? You've got the registration advantage, you've got rationality on your side, you've got reach and resonance in terms of the media. You can say the right is their assignment editors, but I'll tell you, I've never covered anything political as much as I did the Mueller investigation. And I didn't have an option in that. I mean, I wanted to cover it. I was

very disappointed in the Mueller report, but that came after I learned that Mueller wasn't Mueller anymore. Right? I mean, he clearly wasn't the guy who was sold to us early on. He talked about guys who were in states of decline. So if you have all of these kind of systemic advantages, why is it neck and neck? If you look for example, what do you think would have happened if the Nixon situation was today and he had Fox News at his disposal?

Do you think that there's a shantel that he would have resigned? That's a great one. That is really a great one. But you gotta balance it, that he would have had 10 times the heat on him as well Remember he had two reporters that were breaking most of the stories. There's always there's all look Trump is they've got trump dead to rights

I mean it's clear what he he was on a recording pressuring brad raffensperger to find 11,780 Non-existent votes. He was literally just telling them to find me enough votes so that I can win illegally, so that I can be anointed the winner of an election that I lost. In terms of evidence, and that's the way Raffensperger took it, by the way, which is very important because look, on paper, straight line analysis, no. Nixon had Trump beat dead to rights because it was an actual felony that he told them to do, which was a burglary of a campaign space. Now you could argue what would Fox News do? Fox News, Newsmax, and Mark Levin and that toxic troll that's on at night at Fox and all the other ones would say, oh yeah, but what did they take?

Some papers? Here are five fake stories. The goalposts will always move. That's absolutely for sure. But I think, you know, the whole point of Fox News, I mean, this was in the Ailes memo so that what happened to Nixon would never happen again. And here is the perfect example. Here's the culmination of that.

Donald Trump did something that I think, I think 99% of Americans who are espousing some degree of common sense would recognize is worse than what Nixon did. Nixon had people burglarize the DNC. What Trump did was stop a free and fair election, stop the peaceful transfer of power for the first time in over 200 years in our country's history. And the fact that Nixon was excommunicated, but that not only Donald Trump wasn't excommunicated, but that the rest of his party is continuing to rally around him is a testament to the fact that when you have a media

who is just running Apologia for you nonstop 24 hours a day, it gives you that backing that you need to continue powering through. There's no way, there is nothing that Donald Trump can do right now that his pals over at Fox, at Newsmax, at OAN, and even in the halls of Congress and in the Senate, that they wouldn't back him up

and say that what he did was totally fine. True. But I'll tell you what would change that. You get rid of the party's grip over state primaries, so you don't have to worry about getting primaried by a psycho and losing because of how few people come out so that you get magnified minorities there, then they'd stop because people wouldn't have to play the game anymore to get through a

primary. And the electeds would stop giving such cover to Donald Trump because they're afraid that he'll beat him in primaries, which he can. But even now, even now, this analysis is not the best path for the Democrat win. The best analysis for the Democrat win is, if it can be mustered, is, listen, you give me control of Congress. You give us, not me, you give us control of Congress. I'm telling you right now, we're going to give the dreamers what they deserve, which everybody in this country believes they need. Okay?

I'm going to give CBP everything they want to make the border as safe and the ability to process the way they never have before. I'm going to do that. And then you have to have two other initiatives that are both blanket positives, okay? Have nothing to do with stopping anybody from anything. One, in my opinion, would be, I'm going to revitalize the artisan. It's an extension of infrastructure. I'm going to revitalize the artisan class in this country. It's what's hurt our economy the most. Innovation is a

reality. AI is a reality. It's going to affect production. And that's progress. And that's how it is. But we are down trades people, and they are not hacks. These are the people that build the country, that keep it running, that will always need, you won't always need a lawyer, you'll always need someone who can build your house. And I'm going to restore that and take away the bias and financing from higher education that they don't deserve and they can't deliver on. And then you pick another one, probably something to do with women and reproductive rights. And I will do this, I will make it better. You give me control and I will stop their game

of scaring us all to death. And I will work towards giving us a better life. That's how you beat them, by getting away of the who's worse and which is worse. Because I don't think you can win that fight. I'll be honest with you. All you're doing is making their negatives less impressive by allowing them to be offset.

I would tend to agree with that. I think that kind of, I understand what you're saying in terms of like playing on their terrain. They revel in demagoguery and exploiting the negatives. And I think that, you know, by virtue of doing that, look, there are obviously benefits to doing that Electorally speaking politically speaking, but I think overall, you know kind of getting in the mud on the negatives is ultimately Gonna redound to Republicans Ben if I'm angry I'm voting for them if I've got hope in this country

I'm voting for you. And now people say no, that's not true. If you have hope you're voting for Trump. That's not true Trump isn't selling hope. Trump's selling desperation. Trump's selling everything's so fucked that if I don't get in there, who knows how bad it gets? But then he's also telling them that he'll be the guy who makes it even worse by what he's gonna do.

But again, that is feeding an animus and a sense of grievance that's very real and has my respect, but I just don't like the change agent they picked and I don't think he's gonna deliver for them and he didn't the last time. But I respect their grievance. And if you're angry about things, they win.

If you are hopeful about things, if you match their desperation with a hope for better and you believe that we're better like this than we are like this, then I think that's when the left becomes appealing, no matter who the messenger is. If Biden can convince people he's not gonna drop dead in the next 18 months,

because Kamala Harris, she may be off doing whatever she's doing, but she is a net negative in every number analysis I see. Yeah, I mean, you know, again, I would, I would, I mean, I would tend to disagree, but that's okay. And I think that, you know, to your point about Biden, I think him being out on the, whether it's the debate stage or him doing the speeches like he's done, or him getting out there more in the independent media space or, you know, regular media space, although I think that that's probably less important, I think it's

ultimately going to help him in the end. He's got to do more interviews, he's got to do candid interviews, he's got to show people him living his life. They won't even put him on my show. I think that it's probably some kind of misplaced sense of grievance that because the Democrats went bad on my brother, that I am carrying some, you know, that I'm carrying some grudge. But I mean, it's so obvious from my coverage, I'm in trouble with the right all the time.

And I'm like the opposite of you. I can't have a team, though most media shade one way or another, whether they admit it or not. And I'm decidedly anti-party. And I gotta tell you, the lefties, the right assumes that I'm like some lion of the left. The lefties won't even come on my show, by the way. They won't come on.

Wild meter. I mean, I can get the real ones. I can get Ro Khanna, I can get Jamie Raskin. Like I can get real Democrats on, but the progressives and the lefties and the sensitive ones, the younger, they don't come on. I couldn't even get Katie Porter on. I think that's just a testament to the fact

that because we have this bifurcated media ecosystem, there's no need for somebody to face kind of undue scrutiny when you don't have to. I mean, I can't get any Republicans on. The closest I've gotten, the closest Republicans I've had was Adam Kinzinger, Mike Murphy, and Tim Miller, should give you an indication of how far I'm right. No, those aren't even real, right?

Yeah, they aren't. I think they've all lost their cards. I don't think they would make it through the doors in the RNC these days. But I think it's okay to talk to your own. Not for me. I've gotta try to be a bridge. That's what I'm doing.

That's not what you're doing. You are the next generation of conscientious citizen. And if you want to be a partisan, again, it's no secret. I think the parties are killing us. I think we got to get rid of them. Certainly at the state level, they're control over primaries. I just think it's anathema to democracy and it's forcing us to play this game of which side is worse. But, but, but you should talk to your own. You should build your base. You should

do the same thing that I tell my friends on the right to do. You know, pitch your best arguments to your people that make you productive, that make you somebody who's going to make things better, that plays on the strength of these country, and you're gonna be making a contribution that's gonna matter and you're gonna go from three or four million probably to thirty or forty million, because there's a lot of you people out there. Yeah and you know I appreciate that and I think you're right. I think in terms of like we you know social media has kind of afforded us this amazing luxury that I can make an argument and see in real time how how potent how

effective it is and immediately go back out I mean we're not I'm not sending out mailers and then waiting until the next election is to try to glean how effective you know some mailer was and the broader scheme of all of the other you know bombardment of messaging out there, I can put out a video immediately. I can read the comments. I can see the views. I can see who is a potent messenger.

I can see what message actually works, but what message doesn't really work in terms of getting people rallied around, in terms of getting people to click on something. We have this insane luxury online to be able to reach people instantly and get that instant feedback and then use that message moving forward and continue to hone it, hone it, hone it, and figure out what's going to be most effective as we then try to go to the broader electorate and reach independence and see what's an effective message for them. Well, look, they're the key. And they happen to be the fastest growing part of the electorate, which is why I have

hope is that the plurality in this country now doesn't want to be Democrat, doesn't want to be Republican. They're pushing right past left right and they're getting the reasonable and I respect it. And that's where I've always been. Made it very uncomfortable for me at the dinner table on many a night. I loved my pop. I wish I could be more like him. I love my brother. But I say to them all the time, your party right now is not the party that they came up in. You do not go, you can mention your achievements. I'm talking about the dialogue.

The dialogue is not geared towards the working class as much as it is to a lot of, I believe, fringe issues that don't matter. And a lot of it is forced on you guys, but you wind up taking up the conversation anyway. I do not believe AOC is the best of what the Democratic Party has to offer. And you can say you have a big tent, but you know, in any circus, they control which animals you get to see most often. And I got problems with her, but I don't have a problem with you. I think that you are a part of a really promising future for our political dialogue, and I love to see your growth.

You're always welcome here whenever you want me on, because your people like to chew on my hiney as well. I'm a call away, and I'm happy to be part of it. Chris, I appreciate the time, man. There's a reason ETC has three, four, probably more million followers on YouTube. He's saying things that resonate with a big part of this country. Enough to win the election? I don't know.

But it is always good to get familiar with the people who are going to be shaping the dialogue going forward. And Cohen fits squarely in that position. Do you agree? Do you disagree with where he's coming from? Let me know. Thank you for subscribing. Thank you for following.

I'm Chris Cuomo here at the Chris Cuomo Project. I appreciate you. Wear your independence, be a free agent. I don't wanna be a Democrat. I don't wanna be a Republican. I wanna be reasonable because I believe in getting things done. They believe in just getting the other side done dirty.

You see the difference? Look at the wings. So you can get the merch if you want it. You can see me on News Nation every weekday night, 8P and 11P. The challenges are real, my brothers and sister, but so is the remedy. Let's get after it.