The Chris Cuomo Project - Chris Cuomo Takes on Richard Cooper's "War on Men"

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

In this episode of The Chris Cuomo Project, Chris sits down with controversial relationship coach Richard Cooper for a candid discussion on masculinity, the perceived "war on men," and whether toxic masculinity is a real problem in society today. Join Chris Ad-Free On Substack: http://thechriscuomoproject.substack.com Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Are you a guy who often wonders, why am I not getting what I want out of my love life and even my personal life? Are you a woman who doesn't understand why men don't get what works and what doesn't? Guess what? I got perspective you wanna hear. I'm Chris Cuomo.

Welcome to another episode of The Chris Cuomo Project. Thank you for subscribing and following. We're opening up the lens here of reasonable discussion beyond just the political, the sometimes the philosophical. And today, I have a great perspective for you. Is the problem men that look like me? not just white males, but apparently alpha males, outwardly aggressive males? Are we the problem? Or is there something desirable about that? And is there something just completely misunderstood about how many different sides people can have and what is masculinity about and what is femininity about and how do they go together or not. Richard Cooper is blowing up in this space with his advice mainly to men about how to date, what to look for, and how not to be taken advantage of. Are men in trouble

in society today? This is a provocative conversation. Now, I don't believe that, but I do believe that the idea that it's a controversial notion means that we have to discuss it. So I appreciate you being here. I appreciate you checking out the free agent merch, and that means that you're open-minded and a critical thinker.

So here's Richard Cooper. You should check out his book. You should check out his book. You should check out his Instagram and his YouTube spaces, which again are exploding with views and popularity. Why? Check it out. Richard Cooper, thank you very much for taking the opportunity. Pleasure to e-meet. I appreciate e-meeting you as well, Chris. So, let's jump right into it.

The problem. Is there a real problem when it comes to masculinity, assault on masculinity, war on men? What do you think? I absolutely think there's a real problem and it's not getting any better. It appears to be getting worse. It's something that a lot of guys struggle with today. There's a lot of weak, soft, docile men that could be better versions of themselves, but they aren't. And there's attack on those guys too, right? I mean, like you've seen probably attacks yourselves in the media against a lot of these men. Sometimes they're unfounded, sometimes they're founded,

but it's difficult to distinguish, you know, between the two because we live in a world where it's believe all women now today, or believe anybody that accuses a man of being toxic or anything that they might do that's wrong until proven otherwise. And even if you do prove it otherwise, his name can be tarnished into perpetuity. For the women watching, for the empathetic males to the mainstream position, I think mainstream is a fair qualification, that no, we have it backwards in this conversation, that there are aspects of masculinity that we have been allowed to dominate in society to the disadvantage of the overall, and this is a necessary correction, and that it's about creating more equity and fairness and less toxicity in terms of how we

interact with each other. And that's what it is. And if we don't like it, that's because we need to change. I'm still waiting for an example of that from that narrative, from that side of the story. I haven't seen a example where, or a pileup of examples where men are as described in that narrative, in that soundbite. And I don't see any situations where women can't do anything that men can do. In fact, it's kind of interesting because we live in a day and age today where men who are abysmal competing in their sport, like swimming, you know, for example, uh, ranked 400 or so will compete in a woman's sport, identify as a female and clean up and be number one.

Um, so it's interesting that that's overlooked or not pushed back as, uh, as much as, you know, the common average heterosexual male. aberration. It certainly gets trafficked in a lot to make a point about the unfinished business of understanding identity and how we create equity in society. My big fear when it comes to what is happening with my kids or any of that stuff is not that my daughters won't be able to compete in sports anymore because the fields of play are going to be filled with males posing as female, but that it's certainly trafficked in a lot. The big example of the contrary position for guys like the conversation that we're having, Richard, is Me Too, the toxic workplace, that men for generations were able to say and do whatever they wanted to women,

and the women had to comply or they would lose their jobs or any sense of advantage. That that is what set all this off of rebalancing patriarchy and matriarchy. Do we have examples of that? Of toxic workplaces and men who've been able to get away with things? Yeah, I think I could make a fairly compelling case. and men who've been able to get away with things. Yeah, I think I could make a fairly compelling case that workplaces I have worked in, even in the media up until recently,

and I would actually argue until now, because I think a lot of me too has been underserved with window dressing and just chasing after media and bold-faced names. Obviously, I'm one of them. But did they create real systemic change, real equity, real avenues of people to ask for accountability? That I don't know. And nobody follows up on that coverage because the boldface names are enough. But again, the proof of it would be that the culture was that men were in power and could set the tone in the workplace. You disagree with that premise? set the tone in the workplace. You disagree with that premise. Yeah, I disagree with that. I mean, I've, I mean, I've worked in a number of workplaces and I've been self-employed for,

I don't know, 20, 25 years now. But, um, even, even back when I was involved in the corporate world and I worked for some large corporations, you know, I was telling you before we went on the air that I was involved in the credit and collection industry and, uh, dealing with that sort of work. And there's some very large institutions here and I never saw, you know, dealing with that sort of work. And there's some very large institutions here. And I never saw, you know, women treated any differently than men. You get things in passing, you know, there's comments made in passing from the time to time, often in jest, sometimes not in jest, but you know, it's part of human nature. I don't think that it's a big issue and I don't think that it should be tabled as a big issue in today's world. There's

a lot bigger problems that we have out there than, oh, he was mean to me or he looked at me the wrong way. I understand that. I think there's space for both, right? The understanding that two things can be true at the same time, and it's a question of degree is lost in a dialogue that has no subtlety. I think that we can do better in terms of how we treat one another and what we allow to be dominant. But the correction in our culture all too often is pendular and becomes overcorrection, where now I get comments I've never gotten before, you know, of like people saying, you know, you're too big. I like what you do. I like what you say. I appreciate your reporting. I appreciate what you're doing big. I like what you do. I like what you say. I appreciate your reporting. I appreciate

what you're doing on the podcast, but why so muscular? Do you believe that that is working against you? And why do you talk about the self-defense training so much? Why do you put that toxic masculinity out there? And what I don't understand is, and why I'm very interested in the work that you do, I don't understand how you can get to a better place without somebody having to be destroyed. And that masculinity has to go, which really has fed into this group of males that you're talking about. And even this phenomenon now that we're hearing about called involuntary celibacy, the incels, it does seem that the search for a correction has created a new problem. Yeah, it's interesting that you made that, you know, comment about being too big.

You know, first thing I noticed about you when I looked you up, because I wasn't too familiar with Chris Cuomo. I mean, I'm a Canadian. I don't follow politics and I don't usually watch the news. I looked at the photograph. I'm like, ah, he looks like a guy I would sit down and have a beer with, right? Like that's the first thing that I think when I look at you, big neck, you know, broad shoulders, you look like a guy that knows how to be competent in the, you know, the realm of the world, especially if something were to happen. Right? And I appreciate that in men. I like guys that are good at being men and I like good men. You know, to the point of combat, you know, you brought up one of the chapters in my book that I talk about is I think men need to get

into combat sports. We have a society of culturally weak, soft men. I see men walking around on a routine basis with female breast tissue, shaped like pears that don't look like they would be able to handle much if a bad situation would come their way. Women like strong, virtuous, masculine men. They like a guy that can speak softly but carries a big stick. We know that as a matter of fact, based on how women choose men. as a matter of fact, based on how women choose men. We know that men are looked upon more favorably when they're more competent looking, when they're stronger looking. If you have two men walking down the street, one that's soft and weak. I had a conversation the other day on my podcast with a man that was an incel, 110 pounds, five foot six. He didn't

understand the importance of going to the gym. But if he was walking down the street and I was walking down the street, I'm six foot two, 215, 218 pounds. And there was a bad guy coming the other way. Who do you think he would pick as a target? He's going to pick the softer, weaker man. I think it's important for men to become the best version of themselves, to optimize themselves so that they can live a fulfilled, wholesome and life of choices. Because a lot of guys today, they don't have

any choices. They're sleepwalking through life with their eyes closed, hoping something better is going to come along. And they ask questions and, you know, you brought up the point of the incel thing. So back to that. And they, and they bring up the question, like, I don't understand why women don't respond to me. I don't understand why women don't like me. I'm a really nice guy. Right. And it's like having a conversation. I had a 90 minute conversation with this guy on my podcast, the incel. He just had so much difficulty understanding the importance of improving the optics and the physicality of strength and the looks of masculinity. And I think calling that today toxic or saying that getting into combat sports is toxic masculinity

is absolutely absurd. Because who does society turn to when the shit hits the fan? Big, strong men. You know, who do we turn to if another country comes and invades? I mean, I see men laying their lives on the line here in Ukraine today. All the women and children have left. They, you know, they move them all to safety. It's the men that are disposable and it's the women that are protected.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think that a society functions better when men are the best versions of themselves and women are the feminine versions of themselves. I think we blur these lines and we tell women to become more like men and we tell men to become more like women. Well, some people see that as balance. And while I have made a lot of the choices that you are promoting, I certainly understand that you don't have to look like the rock to be a real man. And very often, you know, we're not in medieval society anymore where we should have to think that we're going to have to defend ourselves with our hands. Now, again, yes, I've made that choice. Yes, it is important to me, but maybe that's a function of my inadequacy. I don't know. But I'm saying that I'm

open to, you can be way more virtuous as a man than I am, but look nothing like me and not be able to take a punch as well. I'm okay with both. I'm okay with both. I've made my own choices. Absolutely. They fall in line with what you're defining. I'm open to a different definition. Where we come together and where I see great need is that I do believe that there is, just like there are crises among women on different levels with different parts of their persuasion and their persona. I see that with men too, but it's not allowed. We're not allowed to say what you're saying right now. Men are struggling. They feel they can't be their best selves. They've lost a sense of identity in place, that there's an appreciation gap, that men only feel valued if they are literally of quantitative value, that they're

bringing in cash. Otherwise, they can't compete. It's not enough to be gorgeous and have biceps the size of softballs if you broke. But they can't say that because it's not their time to complain. And I keep feeling that there's an audience of underserved males out there. And it's how I came to you, Richard Cooper, which is in researching this, you speak to these men. And we'll talk more about how. are a lot of men out there who are confused, worried, feel targeted, and feel incapable of being what they want to be. Well, you know, there's always three words that I, you know, respond to in that realm, and it's do the work. You know, men must become, we have to make something

out of ourselves. And I think that message has been lost. You know, we've been telling men for decades now through a function of media, Hollywood, society, marketing, education, culture, religion, you're good enough. You're good enough. Just be yourself and the right gal will come along. You know, good things will happen, you know, if you just wait. And it's never been that way. Men have to compete in the world. We have to do the work. We have to compete. We have to make something out of ourselves. There's a standup comic, Chris Rock, in his special tambourine. He said something that went absolutely viral and I've tweeted it a number of times and it blows up. He says, only women, children, and dogs are loved unconditionally. Men are only loved under the condition that they provide something, something along that line. Right. And it's funny and it's gone viral because there's truth to it. Right. We are not the same.

Men and women are different and that's totally fine. And I think that if we, if we learn to embrace the differences between men and women and understand how masculinity is valuable and understand how femininity is valuable and how the masculine should protect the feminine and how the feminine should complement the life of the masculine sort of thing. We can, we can work together in a much more productive way instead of doing this stuff all the time where it's like, Oh, we have this workplace issue. We have this inequality here. And I don't think that the issue is of equality anymore. I think we've moved past that. I really believe that men and women can do anything, you know, there's, you know, with some slight differences because men are physically stronger than women, but we can pretty much

do anything that the other can if we really want to. It's really, you know, I really struggle with this because it looks more like a supremacy movement now. It doesn't look like a movement towards equality. It seems like it's moving towards the subjugation of men. Bend the knee to everything we say. You're always wrong. If we point at you, then you must apologize. And I think that that gets exhausting. And there's certain scenarios where a man must apologize. And I think there's certain scenarios where if you've done something wrong, then you need to correct

that and own it. But it seems like a lot of it is empty. The emphasis in your work on dating. I mean, I get it. I get it. Sex coupling is a very dominant part. It's just to me, the issue goes so far beyond that. But do you focus on dating one because there's a need and you're good at it and it's been responsive? Or is there something more philosophical for you about why you put so much energy into talking to men about what their prospects will be with the opposite sex and why they're struggling? Why do you focus on that so much? I think relationships in general between men and women is a big part of our lives. I mean, that's why we're here. We're here to scatter seeds as men and women is a big part of our lives. I mean, that's why we're here.

We're here to scatter seeds as men and women are here to have babies. We're not here to build highways and skyscrapers and computers and do podcasts. This is the reason why we've been on this planet forever. So that is always a problem that men need to solve for themselves because I think in the world men compete and women choose from the men that are competing. So making something of yourself, you know, back to that point is incredibly important. So that's why I encourage guys, chase excellence, not women. Dating comes up a lot because there's a lot of questions around.

I mean, when I first started doing this, Chris, it was it was like the main channel name is Entrepreneurs in Cars. And I was really just interviewing my friends and their success rides. And I ran out of friends with cool cars real quick. So one day I was reading the comments and the guy said, Rich, you got to do a video on the kind of women to avoid, like to not invite into your life. I thought, okay, well, that was interesting. I have some experience there. So I started talking about that and that blew up. It got a hundred thousand times more views than my regular videos would. So it's like talking about entrepreneurship and success and how to

utilize lawyers in your business and how I would hire people with parties. Cause I've been an entrepreneur for years. Wasn't that interesting to people. It seemed like they were always struggling with the fundamental basics of attraction. And I come at it from a different perspective. I'm a seasoned gentleman. I've got the salt and pepper in the beard. I've, I've, I've lived many lives, right? So when I speak, people generally listen because I speak with authority and I have answers to the problems that they're dealing with. So I went down that rabbit hole for years and I'm still doing it. I mean, I have a bestselling book. I have a podcast now that I've sort of built on the book called the unplugged alpha and I deal with Collins. And it's interesting because I

talked to a lot of people and I talked to men and women. Now I have another podcast that I created that I called ladies night where I have a panel of gals and the differences between men and women couldn't become more obvious. I mean, to me, at least some people don't exactly see it. Um, you know, they really struggle to see the conversation for what it is. They're kind of like believing the, you know, I say that comforting lies sell better than the uncomfortable truth. I'm that guy. I'm a bit of an asshole. I call it, you know, like I see it. I talk about the uncomfortable truth and I don't sell comforting lies. And those comforting lies sell a lot better. So when I speak, when people listen, they really get it. Support for the Chris Cuomo Project comes from PrizePix. I gotta tell you, there's a reason PrizePix is America's number one fantasy sports app.

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for a first deposit match up to a hundo. Again, go to prizepix.com slash CCP and use code CCP for a first deposit match up to $100. PrizePix, pick more, pick less. It's that easy. I believe that this conversation should have great importance It's that easy. I believe that this conversation should have great importance to women who have men in their lives that they care about. And I'll tell you why.

Not just for the, hey, let's see if we can get inside their head, because everybody's different. But, but, men, obviously, you've built a great following, but I see a lot of, and I dismiss criticism of, oh, this guy hates women and he's just teaching men to be predators. I don't believe that. I've read the videos. I've watched the videos. I have, which I now believe is a second version of your book, which you have an amended version of the book, which is the one I have. But here's my point. There's so many women in my audience

who are often looking to me, not because I'm better than what they have, I'm sure they've traded up, but which is a fairly low bar. I deal outwardly with struggle. I think that we don't talk about struggle. We don't talk about suffering because it's embarrassing, it's belittling, it's shameful, it's self-indulgent, it's selfish, and we're afraid of it, of exposing our weakness, and yet it's such a universal. And there are tools and tactics, many of which you discuss in your work, that we

could be sharing with one another. So what I think is interesting is while you're coaching men to improve their prospects, let's say, there's also a fundamental understanding in there for women of the insecurities that men have. You know, once my wife said to me, much smarter than I am, you don't need all the muscle. You don't need to be strong. And I said, yeah, you're right. I said, here's my problem, okay? You think my problem is maintaining.

My problem is, as a 50 plus year old man, is that I went through a phase of not knowing why I was here anymore outside of the intellectualism of the work. And I believe in, I believe that journalism is an act of faith in the future. And of course it's flawed. It's flawed like everything else that's human by design, but I believe in it. But personally, you know, I try to provide what I can. I'm a parent, I'm a friend. These are very important things to me, but I'm not who I was.

I would get my, I'm a much more, a seasoned tactical self-defense person. I don't believe in fighting. I only practice self-defense because I don't believe in rules once we get that line crossed other than the law. But I lost that sense of, yeah, I don't need these muscles because I'll never be strong like I was. I'll never be dangerous like I was without a weapon. I'll never be athletic like I was anymore. Those days are over. My son is 17. I outweigh him by 75 pounds and he is all I can handle on a regular

basis just because of his, you know, his youth and his vitality and just how strong his muscle connections are. And women don't get that. They don't get very often, not to generalize, but I think a lot of men don't let the women in their lives know what they need and that they need. And I wonder what you think about that. I'm sorry to over-explain it, but it's how I process. And what role that could play in better relationships. Yeah, so, you know, the bookmark that I placed in my head when you were presenting that. I'm not going to call it rambling.

Let's call it a speech is, you know, it open with Chris, why do you need all that muscle? You know, is what the missus said. It's like, you know, you think to yourself, yeah, do I really need all the muscle? You know, I thought to myself a few years ago, cause I've always, I mean, I've always trained, I've always been a big guy because I was always interested in looking strong. And, um, you know, when I enter the room, you know, there's a reputation about yourself that sort of precedes you when you have that, that, that physical presence. And then I thought to myself, you know, what would happen if I had to get into

a fight? Cause I've never been into a fight, you know, like, how do you handle that? So I got into boxing cause I wanted to challenge myself. And, you know, again, I'm a kid at the 70s, so I'm not a young man. I had a boxing competition earlier this year with a gentleman who was 20 years younger than me, two inches taller and about 35 pounds heavier. And let me tell you, that creates a lot of fear in you when you face off against another man and you put your jaw on the line and you have to hit him.

And you have to hit him harder than he hits you because you want to win. It's a lot of work. So, I mean, back to the original point of like, you know, Chris, what do you need all that muscle for? Like you don't need it sort of thing. I always find that interesting because what, what women say and what they do, meaning like what their behaviors are, I always believe the behaviors and she's chosen you, Chris. I mean, you're obviously married. You've got children together. You have a family. If you were inadequate and she liked five foot, 610 pounds, she'd probably leave the marriage and move on to that, but she hasn't. So there's something to be said about the physicality and, you know, the strength that you impose, um, as a man and the masculinity, you the masculinity that you sort of bring to the table.

Like that's a lot of testosterone, right? Women like that. So I think one of the narratives, one of the struggles, one of the stories that men need to get their heads around is watch women's behaviors. Watch the behavior in general of people. I'm not just narrowing this down to women, but again, I talk a lot about dating, but watch the behavior of people and don't listen to so much of what they say.

Their actions express their priorities, right? I mean, like one of the big complaints that guys have, you know, when it comes to the realms of dating is like, you know, I was her friend and I was her shoulder to cry on. And then she went off and, you went off with Mr. Exciting. And Mr. Exciting is always like six foot two, broad shoulders, narrow waist, football player, linebacker sort of thing. And the guy with the chess master's degree, he's just not getting responded to. Women like a strong, virtuous, tall, masculine man. They want to look up to a giant.

They want to know that you got it. And being physically strong is part of that equation. You'll never get out of that. You'll never get out of that. So how do you justify that? How do you reconcile it, Richard, with what we see all the time now, especially with social media and everybody flaunting exaggerated ideas of their life? The 5, 610 guy who runs a hedge fund and has nothing but the most beautiful women, even

if they're, you know, somehow being compensated for their presence and guys seeing that and saying, so if I don't, if I don't have the bank and that's what this culture rewards more than anything else, whether you're from Canada or America or from, you know, Sri Lanka, if you don't have the cash, from Sri Lanka, if you don't have the cash, that's the real currency, pun intended, in our society. And that's your only measure of worth. It doesn't matter that you can keep me safe. It doesn't matter that you're powerful. My black card will beat you. It's a measure of worth, but it is not the entire measure of worth, though. Because, I mean, the thing being is now you're talking about the multifaceted pieces of puzzles that are required

to complete the narrative of hypergamy. And all that really means is that women generally date across and up on the socioeconomic scale. They want to be with a guy that's better than them. And that's fine. It's not a problem with women. It's a reality. And it's a feature of the survival nature of human beings. Had women chosen losers throughout history, you and I would probably not be sitting here today. Incompetent men that couldn't get food or protect the tribe would have, you know, we would have just gone the way of the dodo. So women choose winners, right? So that's fine. And being like a five foot six, very successful banker brings financial resources to the table. And again, that's one piece of the puzzle, but it's not the entire piece of the puzzle, right? Like women have a long, long laundry list of,

uh, requirements that they tend to have in men. When I got, um, separated a number of years ago, I was at this dinner party and, you know, I was with this group of entrepreneurs and the wives were there and the girlfriends and stuff. And I was single at the time. And one of my friends, you know, wife came up to me, she goes, you know, rich, I got to set you up with Becky. You know, you got the six sixes and I got to connect you and I'm like, well, what are the six sixes? I've never heard of this before. Right. And she said, well, you know, you're six foot tall, six figure income, 600 horsepower cars, six months out of a relationship, six inches in the pants. I got all these like sixes. Right. And I'm like, okay, well, that's a long list of the requirements that you have to introduce me to your friend. I don't even know what she looks like, but it's like, you know, it's, it's not, you know,

he's got a nice job and he's a nice guy, right? It's not, you know, he's a pleasant fellow that, uh, you know, makes his bed in the morning, right? It's, it's a reality of the world, right? Like there, there are areas that we need to compete in as men and being competent financially, being able to, and money is what makes the world go around, right? I mean, it's on the money, you know, with God, we trust money, all this sort of, like it's, it is our religion, you know, in general, if you don't have money, you're not

going to have women around on a long-term basis. You might have them around on a short-term basis. I mean, I've seen lots of stories with guys telling me that they lost their wife or their girlfriend to the guy that just got out of jail with a neck tattoo and the teardrop tattooed under his eye. It doesn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, but he looks like a badass and she'll throw herself at a guy like that for a couple of nights, but she'll go back to the guy with the money. So it's like, there's all these moving pieces. And I think understanding that it's not just, you know, just be jacked or just be rich or just be captivating or just be compelling or just have a good social network and influence. These are a lot of the pieces of the puzzle, but they're just pieces of the puzzle.

What do you think gets us to a better place? What would get us to a better? Well, first let's define what a better place is. So let's start with that. A better place would be where there's space for, um, there there's, there's, well, let's just leave it at that. There's space. It doesn't have to be that this kind of masculinity is good or bad. It's just a piece. And we can have a problem that we want to fix. We can have goals that don't require the destruction of a type or of any type of category to get to that place.

Because that's what we're doing, right? This is all about overcorrection. We see it in our politics. We see it in our society. And there happens to be a reason in political science and psychology for it, which is known as stereotypes, that people get locked into what they know culturally, habitually, and then they just seek confirmation of that thing.

That's where we are. All right, so men who are bullies are bad, and they have victimized and demeaned women. Okay, so they have to go. And not that behavior has to go. That kind of person has to go. Those traits have to go. So it's the typical baby with the bathwater. All the things that you represent, Richard, and you may be fine because they're

offset by an emotional sophistication and an intellectual sophistication. But in general, guys like you are the problem and we have to mitigate them. How do we get past that to a place where there really is progress? I honestly don't see us getting to that place anytime soon. If I'm being honest, I'm, I'm more of a enjoy the decline kind of guy. It's like, I see the direction of culture and society. And, um, I just say, look, you know, like I'll plot out the landmines on the map and I'll say, guys, you know, here's, you out the landmines on the map and I'll say, guys, you know, here's you know, here's the issues. Walk around them. Take care of yourself. Take care of your family.

Take care of your children, you know, set yourself up so that so that you can navigate in this somewhat of a wasteland that, you know, we're moving into. I don't see politicians. I don't see cultural. I don't see Hollywood. I don't see social, I don't see Hollywood, I don't see social media narratives changing anytime soon. We're embracing some of the most bizarre things I've ever seen in my entire life. We're celebrating some of the most bizarre things that I don't see have a place in promoting femininity, masculinity, the cooperation of the sexes. What I see is a division of the sexes. They tell women, girl, you need a man like a fish needs a bicycle. Right. And now they're telling guys, guys, forget about women. Just go MGTOW. Get a sex doll.

They've offered these other solutions to men. And it's like, how does that solve anything? How does that improve culture? How does that improve society? Men are generally better. Men and women are generally better together than they are apart when they work together. And they understand that we have certain certain roles to play in a relationship. But when you start to blur those lines and say, well, you know, I was talking to this gal on my ladies night podcast, you know,

give an example of this, which is very, very clear. So one of the guys that I know that's been married for 25 years, you know, I said to him one time, I said, what do you think the success to your marriage is? Right? Like, why do you think you guys have been together for so long? And he said, it's because we have blue jobs and pink jobs. I do the blue jobs. She does the pink jobs. If the tire needs changing and it's flat, I take care of it. I do the yard work. I take care of the driveway when there's three foot of snow. I do the blue jobs and she does the pink jobs. She does the pink jobs. If the tire needs changing and it's flat, I take care of it. I do the yard work. I take care of the driveway when there's three foot of snow. I do the blue jobs and she does the pink jobs and you know, we work out very well. And I was having a conversation with this gal who's single, attractive. You know, she was talking about this lifestyle of hers and she was kind of an alpha female, you know, she would sort of categorize herself. And I said to

her, I said, would you, would you subscribe to the notion in a long-term relationship or a marriage where you resign yourself to more feminine type of roles, like pink jobs? And he would do like the blue jobs. Like if there was a flat tire, Oh no, I would change the flat tire. I would have to do that because I've been told my entire life that I have to do that. And I think that we're doing a disservice to women telling them that they've got to behave like men. And I think we're doing a disservice to men telling them that they've got to behave like women. We're telling men, you know, connect with your emotions. Oh, you don't feel like a man today? That's okay. Put on a dress and makeup and a wig and pretend like you're a girl, right? When have we ever acted this way in society? And when has it ever been

productive? I just don't see that being useful. I guess as a matter of argument, I get the position that you're taking. I see how it could be countered, but I also see that conflict as somewhat beside the point because when I say the word making space, we are obsessed with division and problems, right? Why? Because they're way easier than solutions. That's why. And I just, I see progress and the hope for progress in the idea of both. I don't care. You be whatever you want to be. Um, and whatever makes your relationship work. Great. Uh, and if that's because your wife can change a tire, like she was part of an, an Indy 500 pit crew. Great. Good for you. My wife has a much better sense of real estate value

than I do. She's just quantitatively more intellectual and, and better than that, than I am. Okay. That doesn't make me feel like less of a man. I feel like if we could do this perspective shift where there doesn't have to be something wrong with me for something to be right with you. And it doesn't make me, it doesn't guarantee the fact that I have a dick the size of a thumbtack if I can bench press my body weight 10 times.

You know, I think that we're so into saying what's wrong that we have created all of this judgment that has us in crisis. And, you know, if women want men who can take care of them, great. If women want to go find men that they can take care of and that creates some kind of balance and harmony for them, great. If by percentage, the latter is going to be a lot less than the former, that's okay too. I just believe that if we could get past the need to beat down someone like Richard Cooper, like, oh, that's not a man anymore. That was a man in the 1500s, you know, and now it's all about vulnerability as strength.

And that's the only kind of strength. If we could just move past the negativity of judgment, that's where I see the prospect of just allowing success to lead the way. Okay. So, I mean, we're talking about accepting things as they are, which is fine. You know, again, that kind of like toes align with enjoying the decline and letting things be, you know. with enjoying the decline and letting things be, you know, but again, uh, you know, the whole notion of toxic masculinity or rich Cooper is this, that, or the other thing, or he's the problem where he lives in the 1500s. You can say whatever you want. I don't see women choosing five foot, six, 110 pound geeks over me. I'm loaded. I'm tall. I'm competent. I can fight. I drive a McLaren.

I do cool shit with my life. I travel. It is what it is. You know, they can say whatever they want. It doesn't offend or affect me in any way whatsoever because I live my life as I see fit and I enjoy it. So, you know, the point in sputtering that they do saying riches, this, that, or the other thing, it's like, cool. Well, you know, whatever. Does that make you feel good? Like, you know, it's, it's, it's a divided camp when it comes to my audience. I mean, like it's, it's mostly about 90% men, I think. And then there's about 10% women. So if we're talking about the female part of the audience, which I think that you've alluded to, it tends to be women that are like 35, 40 plus that, that fully agree with me and are like, you know, I really

wish I didn't waste my twenties and thirties when I should have been focusing on finding a guy, building a family, doing all this stuff. Cause now I have nothing, you know? Um, and, and that's a common complaint that I hear is I was lied to. And I think that men are, men and women are being lied to. And that's the, that's the issue that I take with just let them be because the, the, you're, you're good enough. Just be yourself story that, you know, we tell people, you know, like, especially guys, uh, isn't what gets them the results. And then they get frustrated and they get upset and they, uh, don't know what to do with themselves and they resign to vices like weed or porn or whatever it's you know like video games

and then you get women that are just like men are incompetent they're all losers they're all beta males they're not able to hold down a job they're not compelling enough for me uh you know look at me i've got three degrees on the wall framed in mahogany with little letters after my name. I'm really important. I've done things. I've climbed the corporate ladder, right? But they're apart. How does that, how does that benefit it? Like we've lied to women and say, go and chase excellence and basically become men. And we've told men, soften yourselves, be more agreeable, be softer, be kinder, and, you know, be more like women, basically, like, you know, be a soft shoulder to cry on. And neither side is getting what they're, what they want. And I'm the only guy sitting here telling the truth. And most of the guys agree with

it. And half the women agree with it. And then the younger ones disagree with it. Right. And they'll say, well, I'm a boss girl and I can be an alpha female and all these things too. And it's like, cool. Let me know how that works out for you. I'll talk to you in about 10 or 15 years. When you come to the realization that you've been lied to. Look, no shame in my game. I've been using AG1 for over five years. Why? It works, it's easier, and it's less expensive. That's why. Since 2010, they've been getting their formulations right and tweaking their formulas. Why? Because the science changes, okay? It's not like politics where people decide to believe one thing and no matter what happens with the facts, they never shift.

This is the opposite. Ooh, prebiotics work with probiotics, but in this way. D works with K and this type of B works with that. They have the scientists doing it, so I don't need all the bottles. I don't have to spend all the money, and I don't have to figure out when to take what and why. More importantly, it's not just the regular list of vitamins. It's the extras, okay? The adaptogens, the prebiotics, the probiotics that support your body's universal needs, gut optimization, immune support, stress management. That's what foundational nutrition is about. And these are the people at AG1 who've been doing the work to get it right. Okay. I tell friends, I tell family, I get no complaints. Okay. If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1.

Try AG1. You get a free one-year supply of vitamin D3K2 and five free AG1 travel packs, okay? That's what happens with your first purchase. So make it. Go to drinkag1.com slash ccp. Drinkag1.com slash ccp. Check it out. The Chris Cuomo Project is supported by Cozy Earth.

Why? Because I like their sheets. That's why. A lot of people don't get a good night's sleep for a lot of reasons. One of the ones that you can control is bedding. One out of three of us report being sleep deprived. Okay, well, what is it? Well, it stresses all kinds of things.

But the wrong sheets can make you hot, can make you cold. I'm telling you, is it? Well, it stresses all kinds of things, but the wrong sheets can make you hot, can make you cold. I'm telling you, I don't even believe it either, but Cozy Earth sheets breathe, and here's what I love about them. Cozy Earth's best-selling sheet is a bamboo set, okay? Temperature regulating. Gets softer with every wash. I'm not kidding you, all right? Now, so if you go to CozyEarth.com and you enter the code, enter the code Chris, and you can get up to 35% off your first order. CozyEarth.com and the code is Chris. I also think that it's a question of degree. Like we have two daughters and I constantly try to do what I can to have them understand that you make whatever choices you want to make with your life romantically. You know, I'm never in a great rush to talk about it. I know that there's something sexist about that because in a great rush to talk about it. I know that there's

something sexist about that because I'll talk to my son about it. I'm not so crazy about talking to my daughters, but whatever, I'm flawed. And I say, just make sure you're making choices for you. That if you want to wear that, you wear it, but don't wear it because you think that that's what some guy expects of you. And I think it's really important for That's what some guy expects of you. And I think it's really important for anybody is that you're living your own truth, as you say. You know, you use the word truth about what you're saying and why you believe there's value to it. And that's what I say.

You know, you want to date this guy? That's fine. But not because you feel that he is some kind of measure of your own worth. I think that's important for women to not be defined by who they are with. And I think that's important for men to not be defined by who they are with. I just wish there was more space to it. And I don't see it as weakness or towing the line. I think the reason that my wife is still with me is because she knows I'm desperate to get better. And I have a sense of desperation about self-improvement. One of the upsides of fucking up a lot. Isn't that interesting, huh? And the second part is,

I find humor in a lot of things in life. And that works for her. That we laugh a lot. We laugh a lot, even when we should be crying. And I think there's something to that. So I think that's the match. Now, I look at those things as a function of my strength. You know, I know what it's like to get hit. I know what it's like to get hit with a bare fist. I know what it's like to get hit with a stick. And I know what it's like to get hit with an insult

and a judgment that is much more painful than any beating I've ever taken. And I've had at least a hundred stitches put in my head and my neck. So I think that's a function of my strength. And to other men, very often they'll say to me, especially if they're alpha type guys, man, you got a lot of beta in you. You know, you got a lot of, you know, how you feel and that this is hard and different guys. I see that all as parts of strength. You know, that vulnerability could be strength. Me telling you that I have a problem is strength. It's a big problem with mental health with men, right? Very few of your buddies may call you up. I don't know your friend circle, but to be like, holy cow, I could barely get up today. And it's not because I was dead lifting 500 pounds yesterday. It's because, I don't know, I think I got like a wave of depression coming on or something.

We don't talk like that. I just wish we did. You know, so many things unpacking there, like ways of depression and, you know, how your wife looks at you and the concept of you being beta. You know, I think the guys in my inside circle, because again, I said I didn't know who Chris was. And they summed you up as your typical New York liberal. And I'm like, okay, I don't know what that is really. I mean, I know what a liberal is and I've been in New York.

So I'm not really sure what this guy is. Because when you messaged me, you said, hey, I'd like to have a conversation with you. And I wasn't sure who you were. So we kind of went back and forth. And I thought, okay, this you know, I'd like to have a conversation with you. And I wasn't sure who you were, you know? So, you know, we kind of went back and forth and I thought, okay, you know, this guy seems all right. You know, let's have a conversation. Cause I'm always suspicious of people when they ask me, you know, I want to have a conversation about what you talk and they're from the media, right? They're usually disingenuous and it's to, uh, frame you. Um, that's not my thing. Yeah, no, I'm no New York liberal either. Okay. Um, so I see you as a guy

that that's, that's physically strong and, uh, important, dominant, and, you know, like as a leader in that regard and sense. And you said something very, very interesting. You know, you said that you're on this constant pursuit of self-improvement constant. And if you go through my videos and my content, I mentioned in my book in a few places too, I always tell guys, you can't relax as a man. Right. You cannot relax in life as a man. You can't get married, take your nuptials,

put your feet up and watch sports and sit there all day and end up with Cheeto dust on your shirt, not doing anything with your life outside of work. Women expect you to do something with your life, with your spare time. Like you have to chase excellence as a man. It's funny. I was talking to this baseball player. He's an MLB baseball player. A couple of weeks ago, he reached out to me, said, I like your shit. I want to get together and have a conversation. So I did. And, you know, he was telling me, you know, he's got three rings. You know, he was telling me that he was sitting on his couch one day

and his wife said to him, what are you doing? Why are you just sitting there? This is a man who's world-class in his realm of life, has retired and has decided to put his feet up and take a nap. And he said, I'm taking a nap. Everything you see here, I paid for, you see. And I think it's okay.

I think it's absolutely okay for guys to be a little bit arrogant like that and set some frame and some boundaries in the relationship. And I think women want to test those to see that they're looking at a guy that is their best option, that is the best that they can do because that's how they look at you. They see you as more than just a husband. They see you as more than just that. So sure, are you going to get criticisms of being called a beta? I'm sure people will call you every name under the sun and you're used to it just like I am. It's like water off a duck's back at some point because you know who you are.

And that level of competency and structure that you have in your mind and the way you hold yourself out is understood by people that get it and especially the ones that you want to get it. Like I said earlier, when I looked you up, I didn't know who you were. And I said, okay, you know, who is this guy, Chris? And I, and the first thing that came to mind is I'd have a beer with that guy. He looks like the kind of guy that I could sit down with. Right. So we, we do judge people, you know, and one of the things that you kind of alluded to during our conversation here is, you know, should we be judging people as a right? You know, you know, can we get past those things and just sort of like let people be

as they want to be sort of thing. And I think there's certain areas in life, like I'm a bit of a libertarian, like just do your thing. Just don't hurt anybody. Right. Like, you know, I think it's okay, you know, for stuff like that, but we do judge people and it's, and it's why we have to take ownership and do the work on ourselves as men, men, and, you know, go out there and put a, it doesn't matter how big of it is,

but you have to go out there and put a little dent in the universe, whether it's big or small. I think Steve Jobs said this, you know, about his Apple business, but like you have to go out there and you have to put a little bit of a dent in the universe and do something of some significance. So women appreciate that. I think you're absolutely right. And I think one of the greatest values I see in what you're doing is that message of one, you rarely have anybody to blame but yourself. And that notion, sorry to interrupt you, but that notion of taking ownership, I think, is a lost art. Very, very few people today will take ownership for the results that they get in their lives. And I think that is something that our grandparents and great-grandparents had infused in the fabric of society and culture within us.

And it seems like that has been removed. They want you to be a victim because it's easier to be a victim because when you're a victim, you have some sort of oppressor. And then that's when culture, society, media, like all of these things, we'll call it collectively the matrix or something, just a placeholder on whatever it is we want. All of these things, we'll call it collectively the matrix or something, just a placeholder on whatever it is we want. But that's what is the disservice to society in general is we have this general victim mindset. Oh, poor me. I've got these results because of insert, you know, whoever hurt them sort of thing. And it's like, no, that's not the way that it should work.

And we should remove the victim mindset from society, not infuse it into it. But I'll tell you what, people use it as a sword and a shield in a lot of ways. Alpha males, beta males, whatever Greek prefix you want to put on it. We see it in a couple of two big ways. The first one is that in terms of taking ownership, you don't take ownership. Why? Because you don't have to. You can say that someone else is worse than you. Okay. Yeah. Okay. That's me, but that guy's worse. And that is certainly the binary basis of selection in our politics. Nobody's making the case that they're better. You don't even hear the word better anymore. And that's infected Canada also. You have the same kind of dialogue that's reductive up there. And if there is something wrong with you, you're being judged

and now you're a victim and there's a currency in victimization, which I believe is a misplaced sense of improvement. That you're playing the victimization, even though at the same time, you're telling everybody that should be empowered and nobody's even a victim of cancer anymore. They're all survivors or future survivors. And so we're having it both ways. It's also used on the other end of the spectrum where the guy's not to judge your friends, but let's just say, oh, God, Cormouth, CNN, New York, liberal, mainstream media. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yap, yap, yap. When you're talking about me, let's see how you are when you're talking to me. And now all of a sudden it's, whoa, whoa, whoa. I can say whatever I want about you.

I have the right. Yeah, I know. And I also have the right to pay you the 150 grand this is going to cost me and put this part of my head right through your nose. And now they're like, whoa, whoa, what's wrong with you? Wait, what's wrong with me? You were just talking a big game on social media.

You were just saying all this Fredo stuff and this stuff about my brother and my family and my kid. But now I'm standing in front of you and you don't want to own it now, right? Oh yeah, but I'm allowed to say what you're supposed. We've lost a sense. And I hate to use Mike Tyson as a prophet, but Mike Tyson has said some really, really smart things

in his later years. And one of them is social media has fed into a culture where we have forgotten that sometimes what comes out of your mouth can get you punched in the same place. And people see that as toxic behavior. I don't. And I think that we have way too high

an impression of ourselves, men and women, for being civilized when we're not. We go to anger faster than any animal I've ever been around. Yeah, we are definitely a warring species. And I wonder how we knit it all together where guys who will say something, like, I'm sure you see it. I'm an older guy now.

All my friends though, I'm surrounded by al it. I'm an older guy now. All my friends, though, I'm surrounded by alphas, men and women. Everybody's tough. I don't want to fuck with anybody in my life. I'm like, I'm always going to be on my back foot. All my guys, they tend to be a little older than me. Every one of them is a flash of telling me to go fuck myself. You know what I mean? If they don't like what I say or I do, there's no kowtowing. And yet it seems like that's lost on so many people in society where you think, you think I can come up to you in a restaurant when you're with people you care about in your private life and talk shit about you in an insulting and demeaning way and that nothing can happen to me without it being wrong because you have the right to say it. I see that as as big a problem for us to deal with

as any of these things in the bucket of issues. Yeah, I don't see people coming up to me. I mean, anybody that comes up to me is expressing gratitude and thanks for the changes and improvement in their lives. I haven't seen anybody come up to me and say anything to my face that would be disparaging. I don't think they ever would, to be honest with you, because they're cowards. They just hide behind the keyboard and then they run off. I got them. Then they kind of zip off in their own direction. That's our new society though. I say to my son all the time and to my daughter, my son's 17, the time and to my daughter, my son's 17, one daughter's 20, one daughter's 13. I say to them all the time, I'll take their phone, right? Because we have that battle in the house,

like don't touch my phone. It's not your fucking phone. Okay. I let you use it. It's my phone. And I'll look and I'll be like, why are you talking to this guy like this? This is your friend. Why are you saying this about her? Don't do that. If you're not going to say it to her, to him, do not say it about them. And we've really lost that. And I think that this will sound like a niggling thing to people,

that this is somewhat of a secondary thing. It isn't. I see it in our politics. I can't tell you, Richard, how many times I've had pundits on that sounded like they were going to kill each other during the segment. Like, there's a chance that this is going to go really bad. And then in break, they're all of a sudden talking about how they were both at the same party.

You see what I'm saying? There's this disconnect. love about the authenticity of your work is it gets us back to what we call often in philosophy of first principles. You focus on first principles. Now, people can expand off it. It's not the exhaustive conversation. But I think that probably, you think that's probably the biggest reason for the rush of success that you've had is that there is a desire to get back to first principles and maybe people can feel differently than you do, but there are a lot of people who are desperate for perspective on how to be better and feel better. I think inherently people at some point get to the point or have to resign or surrender to this isn't working. And for some people it's in their 20s,

for others, 30s, 40s, 50s and beyond. But like I said earlier, I think we as a society, as human beings are fed a sequence of comforting lies, stuff that we want to hear that makes us feel warm and fuzzy inside that doesn't really serve us. serve us. And the uncomfortable truth is what I sell. And it doesn't sell very well because it's stressed in overalls and it usually looks like work for most guys. Right. Um, so it, you know, is it a real problem? Yeah. You know, we've got a softer, weaker society today. It's, it's, it's just the direction that we've gone, you know, we've gone on. There's a number of things that have contributed to that. It's not just narratives. They is an active, underhanded movement that is looking to weaken, and I would even call it pussify the Western male, right? You know, soften them up. There's a whole bunch of reasons for that, which would take hours to get into. I know time is short, but I do want to thank you for taking the time to have this conversation. I think there's a lot

of value in it for men, obviously, certain men, but women too, maybe more broad spectrum appeal to women than to men, because we spend a lot of time trying to figure women out in our society. There's the, you know, there's a mystique and there's an obvious principle of competency among males that you get to figure out what women want. Otherwise, you know, you're going to have a problem because as you said, they do the choosing. But I just, we have to stop being afraid to have conversations. And that's one of the things that drew me to your work. Yeah. If I can give your audience any small piece of advice, you know, when it comes to what, what women want and what men want, I think men prioritize availability and women prioritize the best they can get. And it's as simple as that. And I'm a simple man. That's

just the way that I like to do things, Chris. Listen, I appreciate you very much. I look forward to watching what you're putting out into the world. I hope we get to have another conversation and I thank you for this one into the world. I hope we get to have another conversation. And I thank you for this one. Thanks, Chris. Appreciate it. I was just saying to the guys here, isn't it weird that having a conversation about what it is to be male and how to succeed and what women want feels kind of controversial

and like you're going to get in trouble for it. Man, we got to get out of what we see as these perceived safe spaces. We have to be a marketplace of ideas. It cannot just be about saying things that make people feel comfortable in the positions they already hold. We have to be okay being offended

and we have to be okay thinking that we're saying something that may be found offensive. That's okay. And there are a lot of different ways to look at issues and we can all be together on this one. We've got problems and we need solutions and the key to it has to be conversation. Thank you very much for watching, subscribing, following,

checking out the free agent merch, checking me out, most importantly, on News Nation, 8 o'clock and 11 o'clock p.m. Eastern, five nights a week. See you next time. Let's get after it.