The Chris Cuomo Project - Chris Cuomo Unpacks Caitlin Clark’s Treatment in the WNBA

Episode Date: June 6, 2024

Chris Cuomo dives into the recent treatment of WNBA star Caitlin Clark, sparked by Pat McAfee’s controversial recent comments. He examines the complexities of how race, sexuality, and jealousy influence athletes’ experiences in the media and among peers. Chris calls for a more open and honest discussion about the biases and prejudices that shape these perceptions, urging society to confront uncomfortable truths and challenge the divisions and misunderstandings in sports. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Join Chris Ad-Free On Substack: http://thechriscuomoproject.substack.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Why is it wrong for him to call her that? Now we all get it. I'm a girl dad and I'm an adult man and I know how to behave. So of course you don't want to say insulting things. But who was he insulting? We know he wasn't referring to Caitlin Clark like she's that kind of person. Like he was trying to put her down. Why is the reality being ignored here? Why are the people who are actually targeting Kaitlin Clark getting a pass? What are we so afraid of? Why don't we wanna talk about what's really happening? And I think I know the answer. And some people will say, no, no, no, don't do it, Chris.

You're gonna get in trouble. That has to end. We have to stop punishing people for voicing what they feel. And it's starting to evolve. We have to stop punishing people for voicing what they feel. And it's starting to evolve. And I think that this story is a great opportunity to talk about what people are really afraid of in our society, which is the truth. ["The Truth"]

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You guys don't subscribe to the channel and I don't understand. It's free to subscribe to the channel and then don't understand. It's free to subscribe to the channel and then you'll get the heads up about the content. And I'm going to start taking on a lot of provocative topics, not for provocativeness sake, okay? That's not what I am. I'm not here just to churn the butter, just to stir the pot.

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I am not a Pat McAfee watcher. You know what's really weird? The older I get, the less sports I'm watching. Isn't that weird? I'm not into it the way I used to be anymore. And it's not cause sports aren't awesome. They're awesome. I love the UFC.

I love football. I love basketball. I just don't follow it the same way I used to. So I'm not as up on like the current crop of thought leaders, let's call them, you know, or stars or whatever. But Pat McAfee is a big deal on ESPN. And he's talking about Caitlin Clark and you saw the video of her getting knocked down. Now there are a couple of things that bothered me about this.

One that's poor sportsmanship, right? Is it part of the game to get inside your opponent's head? Absolutely. Can that even become physical in sports in a way that's a foul and you could say, not nice? 100%. Do I have a problem with that? No, I believe it's part of the game.

You can agree or disagree with that, but we've seen it in every sport all the time. So we all saw the video. I'll tell you what I didn't like. What motivated Kennedy, the other player, to do that to Caitlin Clark? Was it just to get in her head? Was it just to throw off her game? Or was it something else? I believe it may have been something else. You don't know what's in her head. Yeah, I know. But I saw how she reacted to it and how they don't want to take questions about

Caitlin Clark. There's a jealousy and that's normal. That's normal. Jealousy is normal. Okay. Especially when there's money and Riz and status connected to someone's position that you can be jealous of. Jealousy is real and would make sense. I didn't like that her teammate and her other teammates were in no rush to help her. That speaks to something else. And I don't like that the WNBA is letting this happen. And I'll take them one at a time. First, let's do the easiest one, okay? Because this is gonna be very controversial

and people are gonna try to get me in trouble about it, just like they did with Pat McAfee and it's going to be wrong. And I'm not in the sports world. I don't cover sports. So my employer is not going to come after me because you're looking at my employer right now. Okay. And this is my podcast and I'm going to say whatever the fuck I want to say.

And this is all the truth. The WNBA has one star that most people know, and it's Caitlin Clark. And that's awesome because it's elevating the WNBA into an entire different echelon of recognition. Good for them. I dig it. Okay? I like to see the growth.

I just like to see the growth of women's sports. I think it's good for our society. As a girl, dad, as a sports enthusiast, I think it's good. As a fan, I think it's good. We know that you protect your star. You hit Michael Jordan like that. Not only were you gonna have all of the Chicago Bulls beaten your ass, not only were you gonna have the ref

throwing your ass out, but you were probably going to be fine. Why? You don't fuck with the money. That's why you don't hit Tom Brady like that. You don't hit any good quarterback like that. They keep changing the rules to preserve the ability of the value to be on the field. You know it. I know it. It's not even close. Remember the hack a shack defense?

Who's going to hurt Shaq? Guys are beasts. Okay. But they still had to start policing it. It's not even close. Remember the hack a shack defense? Who's gonna hurt shack? Guy's a beast, okay? But they still had to start policing it. Why? Because you don't beat up on what brings in the money. It's a simple concept. It's always existed in sports. We all know it's real.

And it probably should be as a value proposition. It's entertainment, right? This is a business. So what the hell is the WNBA thinking? Letting the one draw that they have, and I know everybody's saying, what are you talking about? It's this recruiting class, this class has all these stars. Look, I got drawn in to March Madness also

because of Caitlin Clark and all the hype around her. And I saw great players. That kid at a USC is great. I don't know them the way I know Caitlin Clark. And I'm telling you, it's not cause she's white. All right. I am a white basketball player. I was good.

Nothing like Caitlin Clark, nothing like any real basketball player, but I'm not just attracted to white basketball players. Okay. Even though every time I would dunk a basketball for whatever reason, the guys who I'd be playing with would call me Larry Bird. I guess it was like the one white guy that he knew who played, you know, in the reverse. It was okay for them to call me Larry Bird all the time, even though he wasn't known for dunking. It's just, that's the one white guy they knew, you know. So that's fine if that's what it is, but that's not what it is with me.

She is the big draw. And I don't believe it's just because she's white. That may be part of it. That takes us into the real conversation. Why are these people coming after Caitlin Clark? Why are other players coming after Caitlin Clark? Is it not about race? Is it not about race? Is it not about sexuality?

Pat McAfee says, now this white bitch is doing this and that and that. He has to apologize. Why? Because you don't call a woman a bitch. You don't talk about Caitlin Clark or any woman that way. We get it. Is that what Pat McAfee was doing?

I don't know the guy. I don't watch him. I saw the clip. This is obvious. He was projecting how she is seen by other women on the court and in the league. That's what he's doing. So he needs to apologize. Why? Because that's easy. Why don't you deal? You who want him to apologize, and of course he did. Why? Because he wants to keep making money and they'll toss his ass out. And he's not doing it this way where he can say whatever he wants. Assuming they don't flag me for something, but you're making the wrong move if you flag me because I have a cable TV news show that has a big platform and I'm going to go on

and talk about being censored every time it happens because it's bullshit. And this is part of the censorship discussion. What you're allowed to talk about, what you're not allowed to talk about, and by whom. It's the biggest problem in our democracy. You need more voices, smarter citizens, who are critical thinkers, and everything in the system keeps you from being that. And this is a big dynamic of it.

So Pat McAfee has to apologize for calling Caitlin Clark what he called her, but he was just projecting the attitude that seems to be put on her by the other players. He was obviously celebrating her the entire segment and making the point that it's not the whole recruiting class. And he's right, it's Caitlin Clark. Now, the other ones, once you bring viewers, may keep them there and may even expand the base. Who knows? But that's not what's happening. So is that how Caitlin Clark is seen as some white straight bitch in a sport that is not necessarily about white straight women?

Yes, in all likelihood, it's a factor in the analysis. How much? I don't know. You've got to talk to the women about it, but they're not. In fact, it's the only time I've seen athletes be allowed to say, I'm not going to talk about this person when that's exactly who you need to be talking about because of how you're treating her. So what do we need to do? We can just take this one episode, but I don't think that's fair. You got to look at how she's being treated over games. People should be looking at this. If people are giving her a hard time, it could be for multiple reasons, and it could be for multiple reasons at the same time, but two of the three matter, okay? If it's because she's the big star and everybody's jealous,

okay, that's fine, that's only a problem for her because she's gonna have to deal with that, and the WNBA because they're risking having their best person get hurt, all right? But that's the one we care about least. Let's put it to the side. That we're familiar with as a dynamic and the WNBA should be dealing with that.

And they're stupid to have even let it get to this point. Now you have the other two reasons. Are they beaten up on Caitlin Clark because she's straight? Now, why would that be? Because gay women hate straight women. No, that's silly. But does it make women who are gay feel less than?

And that part of the reason that Caitlin Clark is being celebrated is because she's straight and that's normal. And that fans want straight players, not gay players. Maybe you'd have to talk to the players about it and see how that real that is for them. But they do have to explain that scene of banging into her. I don't think it's a one-off

where they just have beef with each other. There's reporting that this has been routine behavior towards Caitlin Clark. Is that not true? It should be easier to figure it out, right? I don't cover the sport, but it should be pretty obvious and pretty easy to figure it out.

It would explain why the WNBA has been nonchalant about it because they got one earner right now. So if they're being nonchalant about it, maybe it's because it's nothing to be worried about. But it's certainly getting talked about more and more. And it seems people want to go there with this, but they're afraid to because of what they just saw with Pat McAfee. I'm not afraid to. Why? Because I'm not stoking racism. I want to see racism, sexism, where it is, any kind of bias and examine it so that we can decide, you can decide, is this what we want to be about as people? Not everything's about the law. Okay? Cancelled culture actually comes from a pretty interesting source of virtue, which is where you want to police your society and decide what

behaviors are good and bad. The problem is that it's just gotten completely out of control about which agendas it controls. And it's not supporting the majority view of things. It's running with minority agendas and, you know, let's say exaggerated minorities, magnified minorities. That's the problem with it. And you're going too far. You're taking away people's entire lives, their livelihoods, because you don't like what they say. Not because they're preaching to kill people. So, if that's what it's about, then it should be talked about. You know, people talk

about Caitlin Clark and she's a beauty and she's this, I'm a girl, dad, beauty is very subjective. I have to be honest. I don't see Caitlin Clark as like this gorgeous woman who also plays basketball, all right? I don't think that's a fair assessment of her. I don't think the draw to Caitlin Clark is cause she's so gorgeous. I don't, I'm not insulting her. I don't mean to insult her in any way.

And I wouldn't, if I thought, you know, she was ugly, I'd say it, but that's not what this is about. I think it's her play. So I don't think it's fair for women to say, oh, you only like her because she's a pretty white girl. Now we've seen that. I remember that with Anna Kornikova, I still remember her name because of how pretty she was

when she played tennis, even though she wasn't as good as the top players. Okay, that can happen. There's value in that, right? It's a business. But I don't think it's that she's pretty so they won't hit her. I think it's, if it's driven by anything

other than just jealousy, cause she's good and she's getting a lot of attention, you gotta look at race and you gotta look at sexuality. And we touched on the first one already. Now we gotta touch on the next one, which is this is not a white dominated league, okay? And that's neither good nor bad. The talent should win.

But when the white person comes in and starts getting all the attention, what does that mean? Is it because she's great? She happens to be a great player, okay? She broke all kinds of records, female and male in college. So it's not that there's hype. Look, there's always hype. There's hype about everybody and everything. Okay. Promotion is part of the game. But it's not that they're making her something she is. We don't

know if she's going to be the best ever. You got to give her time. You got to see. Who knows? she's gonna be the best ever. Or you gotta give her time. You gotta see, who knows? But she's not a phony, okay? The kid can play. So let's put that aside. They're not creating a false standard for a white player because they want whiteness to dominate.

She's just really good. Now, does whiteness enhance her value? Is she being given more attention because she's white? Okay, let's say she is. And that's why they're mad at her and that's why the black players are going out of their way to be violent towards her. Okay, is that okay? Fuck no, it's not okay. If you allow race to predict behavior in a negative way in any direction, you're ensuring it happens in every direction. Okay? And that's just the truth.

If we want to take color out of our behavior, you got to take it out, period. You can just take it out in some places, not in others. There is a notion that is a malignant notion. And you'll say, yeah, easy for you to say white guy. And you know my feel on that. Okay, I'm a white guy. My life is all privileged. That's fine.

I think that calling people privileged that way, all pain is personal. You don't know what people's lives have been like. Everybody has struggles, but whatever. You want to generalize and say certain people are privileged because they're rich or they're educated or they had two parents or whatever. However you want to define it, fine.

But nothing is ever that simple. Like look at my family, all right? One generation ago, my father was not seen as another white guy. Nobody talked about Mario Cuomo and white privilege, and not just because he was very poor as a child. It's that because he was seen as an ethnic. He was seen as an Italian,

and that's how he was described, and it was a less than. And he was punished for it as a student. He was punished for it as a young professional. And I would argue he was punished for it as a politician. And you want my explanation, it's fine. A lot of you are too young to know, but you Google Mario Cuomo and why he didn't run, and mafia is going to come up real fast. And only for one reason, he's Italian.

Okay? It's not because we're in the fucking mob. is gonna come up real fast and only for one reason, he's Italian, okay? It's not because we're in the fucking mob and everybody knew it, but they said it anyway because it was okay. Now a generation later, I'm just a white guy, fine. So I can't talk about race then? I disagree with that.

Pat McAfee shouldn't have had to apologize for calling Caitlin what he did using that reference when he was obviously suggesting that that's how she's seen in the league. And if the reason they came after him is because he's not allowed to make that suggestion, then that's not fair because that suggestion is a legitimate one to make given what we're seeing

and how Caitlin Clark is being treated. Oh, you wouldn't care that way if they were all white and she was black, the hell I wouldn't. I would care about it probably even more. Why? Because white people don't need the protection that black people do, at least not yet. Maybe with the browning of America

and whites become a minority, then you'll have the same dynamic that we had with black people as a minority. Maybe that would be human nature. So is Caitlin Clark getting done dirty because she's just great and they're jealous? Is it because she's straight and they're jealous? Is it because she's white and they're jealous?

Is it because of a combination of those things? I think it matters. And the idea of you can't talk about it is exactly why those isms exist in the first place. You're empowering them by ignoring them, by saying they're taboo. Pat McAfee, and he's supposed to be a big mouth who says like lots of controversial things, and now he had to apologize, and he did that shit quick too. I just said on Twitter to somebody, he'll be protected because he's part of the reaction

formation to all of this political correctness, which is now that like, no, you can't just blame white people for everything and say bad things about them all the time and they have to accept it because they're the majority. No, people aren't going to accept that. And they're going to give him some protection that he should be able to say what he wants to say also, especially when he's talking about his own time. Nope, didn't work that way. Why? Because he's still in the media

and ESPN is owned by Disney. That's why. And because there's also this culture of ethical corruption. Is that an oxymoron? Yes, ethical corruption would be an oxymoron. But let me explain. Is that we're picking virtues that aren't necessarily virtuous,

they're just convenient. We don't want women called that. Okay, well how about how this woman's being treated by other women, is that okay? And what if they're obviously projecting that kind of image of her by their behavior? Look, it's gotta be about at least one of these things. And if it's just about her being great

and them being jealous, then the WNBA is fucking up by letting their own star, she's gonna be injured if this keeps up. And then what? Now, if it's about the other things then I would suggest it is. Now, I can't know why, because we're not talking about it. You're not

pursuing it with the women who seem to be aggrieved or upset by it and that's a mistake and we're not doing it because we're afraid. We're afraid that the progressive left and the media that supports them will come after you. That's why. And nobody's got the market cornered on censorship, on this kind of cultural policing. It happens on the right as well. But you know people won't talk about whether or not the fact that she's white and straight is an issue because they're afraid of being canceled. They're afraid of having people come after them for even mentioning it. But think about that. What would be, why would that be okay?

It would be okay because by talking about those things, you're blaming people who aren't those things and you're reinforcing that there's something wrong with them. Okay, I accept that. I understand that. And I would be against doing that to people. But I don't think that that's what's happening here by my bringing it up. If Kaylin Clark's being straight is a problem for some of these women, because they don't like her straightness being celebrated, let's say, because they

feel that makes them less than, and it reinforces that they have felt like that already, celebrated, let's say, because they feel that makes them less than, and it reinforces that they have felt like that already. Good, let's deal with that. And let's deal with, it doesn't matter who you love or how you love. Let's deal with that. Don't knock her down on the ground, because she likes guys.

And if it's like, oh yeah, when you're white, maybe they don't even think she's anything special. Maybe they think she's a good shooter and scorer, but she's not better than everybody else. And she doesn't deserve all this hype. And she's only getting it because she's white or maybe white and straight. All right, let's talk about that too.

But don't silence it. Don't silence people from bringing it up. It only makes it worse. It only reinforces all these problems. And I think that it's something that you should be aggressive with and take on. Oh, so you're going to give her protection that you wouldn't give the black people. I don't think that's fair. And even if that is true, I think it reinforces protecting people from being targeting in

a way that should extend to the next target for whatever reason they're being targeted. And then look, remember, we lived through this in the reverse with Jackie Robinson. Jackie Robinson was a beautiful man on so many levels, least of which was as a ball player. He was a great ball player. He was not as great a ball player as he was a man. And he was put in an impossible position where nobody wanted him because of his race, period. And he did it anyway, the Dodgers did it anyway, and you could

say it was to make money, Branch Rickey, whatever you want to say, but it happened. And he had to deal with it. And he dealt with it beautifully. I've read about it, I've watched it, my father told me about it. And Caitlin Clark is not a pioneer in that way. I'm not suggesting she is, but I'm saying we have watched what happens when someone has to break through a prejudice. I'm not comparing Caitlin Clark to Jackie Robinson. I'm saying that Clark is also an example of someone being targeted for what they are.

She's not a pioneer. Caitlin Clark isn't a pioneer the way Jackie Robinson was. They were white group women in the WNBA the moment it started. That's not the point. The point is, if she's being targeted for something other than just player hating, which is part of the sport, it's natural, it's human instinct. That's just a WNBA issue. They better protect their money.

Or as that great running back from the Seahawks, they chicken. You better protect your chicken. That guy, Beastmo the running back, he had this very funny way, the euphemism for money with him was chicken. And he would tell young players, take care of your chicken and your mentals. So look, WNBA better take care of their chicken.

And if not, they got problems with their mentals. If they're gonna let Caitlin Clark get beat up, because that's stupid. She's gonna get hurt and it's gonna turn off your fans because they're not gonna have somebody to watch who's the big draw. But if it's the other things, we gotta talk about it. Because if you want it to be okay to be gay,

and it should be, it should be enough. And I was just with somebody the other night who was showing people at a Pride parade and everybody was pissed off. They were all frumpers. They're just decadent. This isn't about their rights. It. They're just decadent. This isn't about their rights. It's about just being decadent.

And the whole room loved it, except for me. Why? Because that's fucked up. And we weren't really talking about that. We were talking about COVID, so I just let it go. But we're still doing that. You're just still seeing gay people and you don't like the way they behave and you just make the sum total of their existence how they behave, how they portray because they're

different than you and therefore inherently less than. What a bullshit way to feel about another human being. Why can't you just care about yourself? And the way we get to that place is by talking about and exposing what's happening, not by ignoring it and therefore pretending it's not happening and it'll go away. It'll only get worse. Everything else does. Haven't we lived it enough to know that?

Caitlin Clark is getting roughed up for a reason. And Pat McAfee suggesting that that reason is that she's seen as being offensive to other players because of her race and maybe her sexuality, he was only talking about her race, got him in trouble. That is putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable in this situation.

And I'm gonna speak to it because there's likely something else going on. And if there isn't great, you'll only know through what? Pursuing it. Sports reporters should be asking these players, hey, is part of this that she's white? Hey, is part of this that she's straight? Do you believe that she's being promoted

to promote whiteness and straightness? Have the conversation, talk about it. That's how you work through it and come to common understanding, because we do have a common cause here, which is equality, which is to allow everything to matter equally. And people will have their preferences. People will like gay people more than straight people, vice versa. People will have preferences. That's okay.

As long as it's all okay, then it's okay. That's how you start making things others and less than and taboo and to be feared. It's by not talking about them, allowing the prejudice to fester. We have to do better than that. We can do better than that. And Caitlin Clark and how she's being treated is an opportunity to do so. So no matter what it is,

it's time that it's talked about, not silenced. That's my take. What is yours? I'm Chris Cuomo. not silenced. That's my take. What is yours? I'm Chris Cuomo. Thank you for being here with me on the Chris Cuomo Project. Subscribe to the channel so you'll get the heads up about stuff.

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