The Chris Cuomo Project - Chris Cuomo’s Path To BEATING Trump

Episode Date: September 25, 2025

Chris Cuomo argues that Democrats are missing their biggest opportunity: to stop “resisting” MAGA and start proving they can deliver better solutions. From social media’s toxic influence to real issues like jobs, prices, immigration, and gerrymandering, he urges Democrats to “change the game” instead of becoming what they oppose. Chris explains why grievance politics is a dead end, why Charlie Kirk’s murder should not be politicized, and how Democrats can reclaim momentum by offering stronger ideas on affordability, workforce development, education, and more. He warns that social media companies and partisan rage are driving America to the bottom — but insists the majority of voters are desperate for something better. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Join Chris Ad-Free On Substack: http://thechriscuomoproject.substack.com Support our sponsors: Go to https//:shopbeam.com/CUOMO and use code CUOMO at checkout for up to 40% off.Go to http://cozyearth.com/CHRIS for up to 40% off the best pants, joggers, shirts, everything! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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or go to explorevolvo.com. The resistance is on the come, and there are much better days for Democrats ahead if, if they read the room. I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. Here is the idea. If you want to see midterm wins, if you want to see social media shifting. in terms of the level of the dialogue, which right now is all magadominant, except for nasty, angry reaction from some on the left, which I don't think is getting you where you want to be. You have to remember one key piece of wisdom. And here it is.

Change the game. Don't let the game change you. Within this aphorism is the mistake. mistake and the correction that will lead to the outcome. Maga has to be a disappointment to people, even within MAGA, if they are more reasonable than just resonant with whatever Trump says. Prices aren't where we wanted them to be. The job market is not where we needed it to be. Culturally, we're not where we needed to be because of the hostilities. Charlie Kirk is, of course, an inflection point, but murder can't be the methodology in America.

And I get why it is so aggravating for people to have a discussion about Charlie Kirk's ideas in the same breath as the wrongness of his murder. I get it. There is place for both absolutes. One absolute is murder is always wrong. We don't kill for ideas in America, period. You want to lionize Charlie Kirk. You want to enshrine him as a political thing.

figure on the right, that's your choice on the right. You can do that. You can't make everybody else see him the way you want them to. Then you're becoming what you say you oppose. However, if you want to enshrine his ideas, you should get ready for pushback. And now here is the opportunity, okay, for Democrats to reassert political dominance on the basis of what they do best, which is showing they can do better. Okay? Look, the key to Bill Clinton saying, I feel your pain, was not just to harness people's outrage and anger and grievance, no matter how justifiable those feelings are. It was that I get where you're coming from. I'll do something about it. Now, that proposition for MAGA has been almost exclusively

reductive with one exception. Shutting the southern border the way Trump did. That was the right way to do it no matter what your politics are. Okay. You got to enforce the law. if you're going to have law and order, right? Other than that, legal immigration, what you do about the companies, what you do about the sustainability of the employment, of our pricing, of our job structure, of our manufacturing base, of our foreign entanglements, all of those things have to be disappointments for MAGA. And there are huge opportunities for better.

And that is the opportunity that the resistance has been waiting for. And I tell you, drop that word. drop it what is resistance resistance is this i'm holding you back i'm holding back maga whatever that is in your mind i'm holding it back what is that doing the rate of losing that is the rate of losing resisting you think it's i won't be you i won't let you do it well what are you doing then because this isn't winning uh oh you're not winning Okay? In the movie, when the walls are coming in and crushing the guy, and he's like, oh, no, and he's stopping. What has to happen next? Something has to make the walls stop, and then you've got to get the fuck out, right?

When you're resisting somebody, they come with the knife, right? And you put your arms up, and you're holding them off. You're holding them off. Is that winning? Are you winning? Right? No, you're not winning. You're resisting. You're forestalling, losing, right? Oh, the knife. What do you have to do, right? Swing his arm down. take it in here. Bam! Now you're starting to win. You're changing the dynamic. That's where we are politically. MAGA has an outsized feel of dominance because of social media and that one of the biggest platforms, and I would argue the biggest platform in terms of political chaos is run by a

Trumper, right? Elon Musk. He may not like what's happening with Tesla on the tax side, but he knows he's in bed with Trump. And he knows he is an enemy of the left. And that's what he is doing. And he is allowed by our laws to amplify content and decide what gets in front of you and how much of it and what gets rewarded and what trends without any accountability. So he's doing that. That is not a space for the left to win if they play the game. You are letting The game change you.

This is why I say often and it frustrates you guys, look, I'm not going to hate on Trump for him playing the game. You don't hate the player. You play the game. You guys are letting the game change you. You're trying to match fury. You're trying to match aggression, okay? This idea that you're too soft, you're too nice, you're too sweet, you're too

empathetic. I don't think that. I think that you guys are pretty buck-fucking nasty most of the time. It's about what your cause is. There's a misunderstanding. Who's the toughest guy in the room? The guy who comes up and says, I'm going to beat your ass. Let's say he's a big muscular, menacing-looking guy, and he says, I'm going to beat your ass.

Is that the most threatening guy in the room? No. You know who's the most threatening guy in the room? The guy nobody else wants to fuck with. The guy that nobody wants to take a swing at. That is rarely the guy who's saying, I'll beat you. your ass. He usually gets swung on first, right? Why? Fear, self-protection. This guy's threatening me. I got to come at him. There is a lesson in that. When Democrats are best, it's because they are

better. It's because they have better ideas that they can actually fix. That's why you guys beat your opponents over the head with the fact that when it comes to job creation in America, you guys overwhelm the right in terms of your history of what you've done with time and leadership. Why? Well, some of it is about public sector expansion, and you can feel one way or another about that. But the other is that you have better ideas about taxation, about regulation, about what works and what doesn't, and why. And that means you have to change the game, because right now, there is no room for better in our dialogue. It's all about who's worse, right? I mean, what does Charlie Kirk's murder mean politically? Is it really a guy?

Galvanizing point for the right? No, I don't think we're going to go on a vengeance tour. I think that that's to anathema to civility. It's anathema to law and order. It's anathema to conservative principles, frankly. It's not about avenging. Sure, it's galvanizing for them. But if they're going to listen to the words of Charlie Kirk's widow and lean into their Christianity, they're going to come very soon to grips with the reality that they're not living their faith. So that's not what this moment is about. This moment is about going too far, about it being too much, too much violence, too much aggression, too much harshness. That's why the answer isn't to say, Charlie Kirk shouldn't have been killed, but man, he was a really hateful person and makes sense that someone targeted him. No, why? Because there is no comma, there is no check on the wrongness.

don't balance that out with what he said. Now, you want to talk about his ideas and what should be remembered about him. Now we'll have a different conversation. And that is a meaningful distinction. Okay? It takes some tact. It takes nuance.

That's not weakness. It's intelligence. Okay? Now the opportunity is, what is better than what got us here? Maga does not have an answer for that. Trump does not have an answer for that. He literally went on stage after Erica Kirk says,

I forgive the killer and said, not me. I don't forgive people who are my enemies. That's who he is. Okay? Yes, maybe he was joking, maybe not, but, you know, sometimes there's some truth in levity. And that's how he got where he is. He is the spirit animal of people's animus, of grievance, of being angry. That's what he is.

That's done. What's next? What gets us to a better place? affordability issues are real, okay? Our job situation in this country is a real problem. Our markets are going to go the other direction. There's been way too much money put in for way too long with quantitative easing and all the currency manipulation we've done.

We're going to have ramifications and repercussions for this. I don't know whose watch it's going to be on, but that's not the primary focus of the political ambition here. The political ambition here should be better. okay we're not going to talk about trans athletes anymore why because it's an excuse for dealing with incivility in our society we have problems with violence in our society directed towards ideas and ideals and we can be better than that i can be in a debate with somebody dismiss what they're saying as childish and stupid and absurd but not become them you know i'm not a wimp you're a wimp

that's that's not strength you're being what you oppose you're matching your opponent you've got to be better this game of the battle to the bottom of which side is worse you guys are literally debating who's more violent the right or the left there's no statistical evidence that the left is anywhere near as violent in politics the adl everybody that's your argument right after charlie kirk was shot in the neck by a guy who thought he was standing up for his trans lover you just shot him in the neck you're going to make the case that it's all about the right how stupid do you have to be it's not about stupidity it's about convenience you're so desperate for clickbait you're so desperate to be relevant to be in the mix that you say whatever's going to get you the clicks

change the game change the game one change the game change the game one change the game by going after the companies that control the algorithms. You don't get to amplify certain shit because that's where you make your money and that comes with no responsibility. Listen, Fox News and Newsmax almost got sued out of existence for doing what? Exaggerating misinformation about Smartmatic, right?

Why? Because there's accountability. Fox News and Newsmax were drops of rain compared to a hurricane of misinformation about smartmatic that was amplified, weaponized, monetized, commoditized on social media with the empowerment, the facilitation, and the consent of the companies. They are publishers. They are creators. And here's the simplest analogy.

While we didn't write any of the articles, yeah, but you decide which ones get amplified. You're a publisher. You're a publisher. Just as much as anybody else. The game has changed. The Internet Decency Act of 1996 doesn't make any sense today. Section 230 doesn't make any sense. Change the game.

That should be part of the Democratic platform. That censorship, no it isn't, it's responsibility. It is applying the same rules to them that everybody else has. everybody else has them. It is not censorship. No. It embraces the First Amendment because this is about state action. We're talking about private responsibility. Okay. There's space for better in that argument. There's space for better in affordability. Why aren't prices coming down? Because of our currency situation. And because companies are rewarded for what they give their share, holders, not what they give their customers. And you can say the two are related, but they're not

as related as you think. What if you changed your policies to have tax codes that reflect what they pay their workers? Certainly constitutional. What about that? You pay 10% tax, just making up a number, if you pay your workers on average, $8. You pay 6% in tax if you pay them 11. What would be wrong with that? It's a good idea, right? That's how you change the game. And that is the opportunity. MAGA is a battle to the bottom of grievance.

You're not going to win the pissed off battle. You're matching it right now. You've got your own pissed off person. You've got MAGA reaction formation going on on your side. I don't think that's how you win the midterms. I don't think that's how you win the majority. I think the way you win is by exposing that MAGA hasn't made what matters better. Give it its due.

Don't say that the Southern border. Don't just ignore it. Say that was good. But what about legal immigration? What about all the workers we're losing? What about all the companies who say they need these people? What about the dreamers? What are we doing to build for the future with our workforce?

What are we going to do if you get rid of two, three million people? Who's going to take those jobs? How are we going to... We're going to have in prices then. There's room for better. Support comes from being. You know, people think podcasting is just talking into a mic. Let me tell you, my brain doesn't just shut off when I turn off the mic.

There's so much noise coming through that I got to deal with. Okay, so between planning episodes, research and topics, and that crazy middle of the night spiral where you go back through every... thing, I know that my sleep was not what I needed. So I was looking for help. I knew I needed something to help me wind down and get into the right place where I can sleep and get the sleep I need, all right, and then wake up without feeling like I got hit with a hammer. That's when I found Beams Dream Powder. And let me tell you, it changed everything. Dream is an all-natural sleep blend with science-backed ingredients designed to help you fall asleep, stay

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Who's going to grab the initiative on bringing back the arts? And by that I mean the trade arts, artisans. That is one of the biggest needs in our economy. Did you know that for every five members of the Trump, trades who are retiring? They're being replaced by two. Do we have less toilets than I thought? Do we have less houses than I thought? Do we have less HVAC systems? Do we have less driveways? Do we have less construction than I thought? Huh, because I thought we needed more of all these things, yet less of the people who are doing it and you don't think you're going to get people who come here

out of the desperation of our need illegally? Who's going to seize that? There's the opportunity for better, right? What are we learning about colleges? People hate them. Why aren't they expanding their freshman classes in a way that reflects their endowments instead of barely matching the population rate?

Why aren't they expanding their freshman classes? Why aren't they expanding access? Why aren't they expanding scholarships? Why are we rewarding them for creating scarcity? Why are we rewarding schools and saying that they're good on the basis of how many people they don't let in? Why aren't we rewarding them for the percentage of people they do let in? The number of people that they can teach and make better.

Why isn't that the mechanism of reward? That's about being better. That is a space that should be inhabited. instead of demonizing all young males, now that you know how dominant they are on social media, maybe you don't blame them for every cultural dynamic in the world. Maybe you address their distress. Why do you think they resonate with Trump when you believe that he is exactly the opposite of what you wanted to raise your son to be? Well, how does that go together?

What is he saying that is being missed elsewhere? you are enough. You are not the problem. You are not to blame for everything. I'm telling you, see the opportunity to be better. Change the game. Gerrymandering is a real thing. Tit for tat of who can rig the system more is not the way to get it done. You can feel how you want about Proposition 50 and Newsom's efforts in California to offset Texas. What about the idea of We got to redistrict the whole motherfucker. And here's how we do it. An independent panel picked by both sides of people who get paid different ways based on how efficient and effective and timely they are in redistricting the entire country to reflect the actual census in those places.

It can be done. This is not that complicated. Okay? It's just done out of political expedience instead of any real demographics. Where's that idea? It would be better. Okay? this is the space for you.

This is where the battle to the bottom has taken us. Everything sucks, everyone sucks, everybody's angry, everybody's upset, social media is allowed to weaponize all of our worst thoughts, feelings, instincts. There is room for better, and in that is a victory. And it is victory that is pure. It is victory that we need. It is victory that the majority will resonate with. We want better.

You don't get to fix my roof by telling me the other roofer suck. You don't get to fix my roof by telling me, yeah, I know this is too much and the job won't be done that great, but what else are you going to do? You don't get the job. By sounding obnoxious, by saying hateful things that play to prejudices and divide, you don't get the job. We only allow it in politics. Why? Because people are stupid. No, because politics is stupid. Because their expectations have been lowered.

The people aren't stupid. The problem aren't the people in MAGA. The problem is not the people in the reaction formation to MAGA. The problem is in the standards that we have allowed. Support comes from Cozy Earth, and I'm happy that it does, man. I love their products. Cozy Earth does good and does well for you. you. How? Products that bring comfort shows up day and day out, right? You got the bamboo joggers and they're everywhere pant next level, just like the sheets. And I love the bamboo. Why? Because it's environmentally sustainable. And I like feeling good about how the companies I use treat our world. All right. If it doesn't matter to you, fine. The products are just great and they're a great price point. But to me, it's about more than that. The everywhere pant, by the way, is the epitome of refined comfort. Okay? It doesn't matter your size. They kind of fit to you and they're a go-to

pant for me. Why? Breatheability, flexibility and they wash so well. The bamboo joggers are a great workout tool for me. I dig them very much all season. They work well. I can get a sweat on them. I could just be around the house. They wash easily and they get softer all the time, which is very cool. And I know the family feels the same way because my wife keeps putting them on all the different beds. So there you go. And my kids have stolen a couple of my shirts. So they must be liking them. Go to cozy earth.com and use my code, Chris, for up to 40% off the best pants, joggers, shirts, everything. And if you get a post-purch survey, please tell them you heard about Cozy Earth right here at the Chris Cuomo Project. Bill, for real life, made to keep up with

yours. That's Cozy Earth. Look, as a wannabe tough guy, when somebody says to me, Hey, Fredo, I should kick your ass. He said, no, I should kick your ass, you fat piece of shit. I don't match invective. Why? I'm just being like him. What do I say in situations like that?

It depends. Are the cameras around? Am I with my kids? Can I get away with it? If I can get away with it, you know what I would say? Try it. Try it. That's what I say.

I've made many people in my life nervous waiting for what the response to the request would be. Why do I say that? Because I know who I am and I know what I'm capable of. Try it. Now, what do I say if my kids are around? That's the way you talk when you see my kids? Why?

Every adult, certainly every parent knows. That's just a line you don't cross. You don't do that. You're a piece of shit all day long and everybody knows it. We're in mixed company. You want to have a conversation? You want to talk about something and see where you're right and I'm wrong, or you just want to be an asshole? What do you want?

Why? Because I'm not going to be what I oppose. Shit, I do that enough. I'm enough of a hypocrite. I'm enough of a failure. I'm flawed enough. I've made the same mistakes again and again and again. Okay?

I know my weaknesses. I know my shortcomings. It doesn't mean I get to correct them. I try sometimes. Why? Because I'm human. That's why I'm all. to human, right? To err is human. To forgive divine. Why did Alexander Pope write that line?

Because it's so hard to be better than what we are as the miserable, frail, weak, insecure, damaged little beings that we are that are here for a blip. But there is an opportunity for better when everything has been run down as far and as deep as it has. There's so many people saying so much ridiculous shit. You don't need to say Charlie Kirk was a racist. You just need to have better ideas to remedy the wrongs that he was arguing about just to keep him in context. You want to talk about prices and grocery prices. Give us the better ideas to help us with them.

And by the way, you're going to have a hard time bringing the prices down. Why? Because it's really complicated about why they are where they are because of how much money has been flooded into the economy. you're going to have to find ways to get people to make more money and I'm not saying it's easy but you want to lead or not make your politics

that is a reaction to what is wrong what will sound with people as being right about being who we are at our best what do we do when somebody is killed wrongly we talk about how to stop it the next time how to protect against this better how to make people safer not to justify why the guy wasn't

that great a guy in the first place it's not what we do there is an opportunity here if you don't let the game change you if you try to out maga maga and show that you can mock trump the way he mocks everybody else okay look look that may be one arrow in the quiver but But it ain't the whole bunch. It's not the arsenal. You got to have better ideas. You are not going to win a battle of which is worse. And you shouldn't want to. There is opportunity in this. Who are the right people to lead? I don't know. They'll bubble up once the expectations change. I want solutions. I want you to show me that you understand why it's wrong and that you understand that it's not just one blame away and that cooperation is not weakness no that's that's

not weakness there's opportunity in where we are right now specifically for democrats i don't see it for the other side right now why it's because they're riding this train they're on the pain train and they're riding it and when trump's term is up and it will be up there's going to be a battle for who is his heir apparent. And there'll be a little bit of a splintering of do we want to go back to being real conservatives or do we keep down this road of conspiracies and complete contagion of every virtue we once had? And that's an open question right now in that political club. Why? Well, because you've got these cooks on their fringe. It wasn't really Robinson. He didn't write the texts. It was Israel. There's a conspiracy of foot. It was somebody else. It's

something else. They, they, they, they, they, deep state, deep state. That's just all about clickbait. It's just all about making money on social media. That's it. That's all that is. As stupid, as shallow as it is, it will get traction as long as it's amplified, and it will be amplified until we change the rules and the responsibilities. So that's that side. They're on the pain train. They're riding this. Ride or die. What is the other side? What is the alternative? That is about better. That is about being rational. That is about being strong in your convictions. That doing it that way makes it worse.

Now that's strength. Don't you want to call me names? That's great. Insult yourself. You got no ideas. You've got no better ideas. You want to come at me personally because you've got nothing. Now, by the way, we know that that is a tested and proven demagoguery works, okay? The Greeks didn't even give us a positive opposite for it that made it into our lexicon. That's how strong the negative is. Why is there a rule that, by the way, I think Rashida Taleb totally violated and should be censured for it the other day

in how she was acting on the floor of Congress. On the floor of Congress, you're not allowed to launch ad hominums. attacks against another member. Why? In a court of law, you're not allowed to openly attack personally opposing counsel. Why? In sanctioned debate, you're not allowed to levy personal insults against your debating opponent. Why? Because we know that decorum has to be enforced if your goal is decency and cogency. That's why. Because you've got to get the cheap shit out, the base shit out, to elevate it. And that's what you need to do now. You want to call names. You want to say things. What you just said is not true. And you know it's not true. And here is the fact.

And you can do it with anything. No, the study did not say that no one should take Tylenol when they're pregnant. And I'll leave aside the fact that you said Harvard was full of shit. And now you're saying there are a single source that we should change our entire pharmaceutical understanding on it. That's convenient. They didn't come to the conclusion that just came out of your pie hole. They said, use less, use it for shorter, talk to your doctor. There's an open question here. They didn't say Tylenol bed.

Good, no Tylenol. That's not what they said. That's how you have the discussion. And I think that we should have a review of it. And I want to hear from clinicians about it. And I want to have a hearing on it. That's competent. that's how you do it.

Not you're stupid for saying Tylenol's bad. Why do you want to own Tylenol's position? Who knows what the truth is? Gas and groceries. What is behind them? Money supply. And what we reward with our corporations, which right now is just pay off to shareholders.

That's it. They're allowed to have a pure form of capitalism that works only for them. That's how it is. They get the most and they give the least. It does not have to be that way. There are better ideas. There's a better way to conduct yourself.

You do not have to be an asshole to be heard, except on social media. And I'm telling you there has to be a change that is part of changing the game. Change the game. Don't let the game change you. Don't become what you oppose. There is going to be a change in what this country wants and expects from its leaders and it's coming soon.

And it is not going to be to the benefit of who is in power now. There is opportunity. Democrats should be on the come. Democrats' fates should be improving. What do you mean? You see how they responded to Charlie Kirk? You're talking about the future. You're talking about the frustrated, not the many and not the majority of this country,

who totally understands that Charlie Kirk should have never had a hand laid on him about what comes out of his mouth. And that's the end of that conversation. It was just wrong. Catch the guy and do whatever you want to do with him. Now, how do we get to a better place? Well, we got to reject toxic ideas. And Charlie had some.

So let's talk about those ideas. Not Charlie's death as a function of those ideas. The ideas. There is room for better. The country is desperate for it. The majority wants it and will reward it. Change the game. Chasing after people on the street to have them say the most obnoxious thing

is working on social media because they amplify the most obnoxious thing? What if the things that resonated most on social media were people coming up to you with the microphone and saying, how do you feel about Charlie Kirk being dead? And instead of them saying, well, I didn't like what he said, I've smiled at some obituaries. Let's just put it like that.

Instead of that being amplified, what if what was amplified was, look, I didn't like a lot of what he said, but it's just disgusting what was done. And we need a better politics in this country. And I'm open to ideas from either side if they help make a difference in my life. And right now, it seems that everything only makes a difference for them. And nothing's changing in my life, not for the better.

What if that got amplified? What if that went viral all over the place? You don't think you'd see more of it? So I get why they're doing what they're doing on social media. Change the game. Change the game. We don't think Congress is about censorship. when they have a rule that you don't do ad hominums.

Now, I'm not saying that's the rule for social media. I think you've got to let people vent. But I think companies amplifying the worst shit, because it gets them paid, is a problem. Let's have the debate. Let's have the debate. And if you don't like hearing the president of the United States go before the U.N. And say all your countries are going to hell, have a better idea. We can't have the UN not be involved in settling conflicts.

They can't be seen as part of the problem. We have to rethink how this organization is organized and how it is staffed and how it acts. And as the largest shareholder in it, I'm not going to continue this way. That's a better idea for an American president. Be about that. Change the game. That it's not about just telling people off all the time. It's about how it gets better.

And I'm telling you, America is ready for better. We know what's bad. We know what's worse. We know what sucks. We know what hurts. We want better. Everybody's sick. Do you want to compare fevers and symptoms?

Or do you want to talk about potential medicine? That's the opportunity for Democrats. If you don't let the game change you and you decide to change the game, who will do it, when will they do it, how will they do it, that all remains to be seen, but the opportunity is there, the country is ready for it, and the midterms are coming. being with me here, having conversations that are about making sense about getting things to be better, okay? And there is opportunity in the chaos that we're all suffering through right now. Thank you for checking me out at News Nation, 8 p and 11P every weekday night. Thank you for checking out all the wellness stuff and the 50 plus fitness stuff. I'm just showing you what I'm doing, what's working for me, what isn't working for me so that, you know, you can have more informed

choices and I'm happy to be here for you to do it. My friends, the problems are real. We've got to deal with our politics the way we deal with everything else in life. What will make it better? Let's get after it.