The Chris Cuomo Project - Couch Confession: Mental Health, Antidepressants, and Therapy

Episode Date: September 8, 2022

In a candid, unfiltered talk from his living room couch, Chris Cuomo opens up about his own mental health struggles, the stigma behind antidepressants, and why therapy matters. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, starting something new, different here. Couch confession, because I'm on the couch. And it is somewhat of a confession. I think that one of the things I need to do with the project is talk about things that we need to talk about more and in different ways. And I can do that with guests, but sometimes I think it may be more helpful if it comes from me directly to the extent that I have direct experience. And now that I am in the age of knowing, right, in my 50s, I've lived a lot. I've seen a lot of things and I've had an extraordinary opportunity to see a whole range of life. That's probably something that you can

benefit from. Now, one of the aspects, and it's kind of taking me some warming up. I don't like to do multiple takes on things. I really believe that lends a performance value to something that I really want to strip away because I think authenticity matters. So we do not talk about how we take care of ourselves. We do it a little bit physically. Most people lie. These influencers on social media, many of them are not being straight with you about why they look the way they look. I think the more intricate part of the journey of being your best self is your emotional self, your psychological self. We need to talk about it more because it's so essential to well-being. And I have learned this personally. And I want to tell you a little bit of my story as a way of destigmatizing talking

about this in general and hopefully getting more people to share. And it's not like I have some deep, dark past or that I have a profound illness or something like that. I understand that so many people suffer in such extreme ways. I know better than most, given what I've done professionally and what I've lived through personally. done professionally and what I've lived through personally. But all pain is personal and everybody's journey matters and all of us are trying to deal with things. And too often, I think we avoid dealing with things. So here's a little bit of my story. I take my body and my diet can suck. I drink too much. I'm thinking about that mostly in terms of why I drink too much. I'm thinking about that, mostly in terms of why I drink too much. And I'm probably what people in the sobriety community would call a normie but a hard drinker.

I drink often, and I definitely think it's not always for the right reason. I think it's to settle my mind. I think it's to deal with emotions. And I'm not saying I'm an alcoholic. I don't believe in abusing those terms. But it's something I've had to think about. And it's something that I am thinking about. And it's something that I'm dealing with because my mental health has become an increasing aspect of my self-concern about how I can be my best. I really believe that, you know, where your head is is where your life goes. I don't believe in destiny or fate or anything like that. I am very devoted to the teachings

of the Stoics and trying to live more that way. And I've talked about that and I'll talk about it more. And I really believe you should read about the Stoics and understanding their philosophy for life which I believe is a great replacement for theism if that doesn't work for you if religion per se doesn't work for you so many years ago when I was at ABC News, my photographer, producer, and I, Bartley Price, great guy, we get hit by an IED. We're out with the military police south of Baghdad, a place called Ghazalia. I think I'm saying it right. They're trying to teach a community how to police itself. And we're driving with them, this great young officer named Jay Sama from Long Island here.

But I think he was based out of Texas. And he is pointing out these bodies that are wrapped up in plastic. And he's saying this is what they do, you know, in this sectarian war here. Sunni Shia, you know, they kill and they leave the bodies out in disrespect. And sometimes he says that they weaponize them. And as he says that, we had been moving very slowly in this three or four Humvee convoy. The bodies explode. And it was like a big bomb. Okay. I don't remember what they estimated the poundage to be, but it was big. And it knocked one or two of the Humvees, you know, silly and people were hurt and nobody died. No terrible injury that I remember. And then

they're firing at us. And I thought for sure that Bartley and I were dead. I thought that what I was hearing was our convoy being overwhelmed and they were shouting and screaming. It was horrible, but I was wrong. And what was really happening was them putting down this suppressive fire. So people were firing at us. They took them out. They called in a tank hit and they were yelling instructions to each other. They had the thing totally under control. So my fears were greatly misplaced and they were beautiful and they were dutiful and they kept us safe and calmed us. It was a great test of the up-armored doors.

There was this big debate at the time about whether or not we should be spending money for these thicker windows. This piece of shrapnel, usually shrapnel is like the size of your fist maybe. This thing was like the size of a hubcap. And it went into the window of the Humvee in front of us and it went in so deep like a cartoon it looked like it was in like a foot this window had given and obviously saved the people inside and it was heavy and we wound up oh it was it was terrible because we couldn't get word back home, but they did get word that we'd been hit by an IED. And my wife got woken up in the middle of the morning, early morning, petrified. They couldn't give her any information. We then went on TV. I remember I was smoking cigarettes. I was like going through these cigarettes. I think I actually smoked

on camera. I think I had it in my hand when I did the reporting. I don't remember the reporting. And I had no idea how traumatized I was. So I get back home and I start having these weird dreams that I didn't understand were weird. They'd be like a normal dream where I'm fishing, but then like the boat would capsize or I'd hit the rocks or something terrible would happen. And it became so common to me that I like forgot that that's an abnormal dream. And it wasn't until a while later that I was connected with a therapist by my wife. That's a funny story, too. So all these couples were breaking up around us.

And my wife was like, wow, these people seem to have it together more than we do. We should get some help to try to strengthen this thing. The therapist decided in short order that she didn't need to be there. It was really just about him working with me. And the relationship has wound up being one of the most rewarding relationships in my life. It's like having a life coach. I know I wouldn't have made it through recent events the way I have. I wouldn't have started this podcast. I wouldn't be going to News Nation. I would not have taken the primetime gig at CNN. My relationships would not

be to the extent that they're good. They would not be as good without my therapist presence. And one of the things he identified early on was that I had traumatic after effects from what I lived through. And by the way, that was just like one thing. It was just extreme. But I've seen so much death and violence and war and murder and, you know, just for years and years. And such a big part of the job is creating emotional distance there, right? I mean, it's not gonzo journalism. It's not, you know, Hunter S. Thompson, where it's all about me and my experience. And I don't enjoy that kind of journalism. I find it self-indulgent and usually limited.

And I think it's much better to try to create an agency for you to know what it's like there, a little sprinkling in of what it would be like for you because of what it's like for me. But more often, it's about the people on the ground. You're not the story. You shouldn't be. There's also a self-protection, self-protection, self-protective mechanism in that. And a little bit of that is also delusion. At least for me, I was like kind of telling myself like this didn't happen. You know, like I'm not really seeing this, you know, it's just doing the

job. And I remember shooting and looking through the camera when we got hit with the IED and thinking to myself, glad I'm not there. Glad I'm not there. Of course, I was there. I'm not crazy, right? You're going to have problems with your kidney, your gut, your butt, your head, your nose, and you have different doctors. And there's like no shame, especially over 50. There's no shame in your game anymore. My guys and I, women too, we talk about every kind of doctor and remedy and what they're taking to make this thing grow or, you know, this go, whatever it is. No shame in the game.

You talk about therapy or medication, there's one word for all of it. Crazy. Damaged. And I'm blessed with great people in my life who are very open and understanding. And there is absolutely no shame in my game. I am flawed. I am often flailing. I fail ridiculously, shockingly often. Do I repeat mistakes? And it really does frustrate me. And it's like constant antagonism. So I believe in working on myself. I believe in therapy. I believe in its value. And I believe in the clinical application of medicine. My doctor was talking about my testosterone level and whether it's going down and whether or not I have to consider putting on a pill or a gel or whatever.

I don't have any problem considering those things, but I did with this medication because I didn't like what it said about me and how people would think about it. Support for The Chris Cuomo Project comes from Factor. I got to tell you, this stuff is good. I like it. And if you're a meal prepper, okay.

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We don't fake the funk here, and here's the real talk. Over 40 years of age, 52% of us experience some kind of ED between the ages of 40 and 70. I know it's taboo, it's embarrassing, but it shouldn't be. Thankfully, we now have HIMS, and it's changing the vibe by providing affordable access to ED treatment, and it's all online. HIMS is changing men's health care. Why? Because it's giving you access to affordable and

discrete sexual health treatments. And you do it right from your couch. HIMSS provides access to clinically proven generic alternatives to Viagra or Cialis or whatever. And it's up to like 95% cheaper. And there are options as low as two bucks a dose. HIMS has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers. So if ED is getting you down, it's time to pick it up. Start your free online visit today at HIMS.com slash CCP. H-I-M-S dot com slash CCP. And you will get personalized ED treatment options. HIMS.com slash CCP, and you will get personalized ED treatment options. HIMS.com slash CCP.

Prescriptions, you need an online consultation with a healthcare provider, and they will determine if appropriate. Restrictions apply. You see the website. You'll get details and important safety information. You're going to need a subscription. It's required. Plus, price is going to vary based on product and subscription plan. So I started taking the pill and with the change in my life

with therapy, I started to change. And then when this shit happened, actually a little bit farther behind that, like a year or so ago, like when the Trump stuff was really at its height and I had been kind of catapulted into relevance confront and think things are going to go the way you want them to just because you're angry and have an attitude. I know how to defend myself if I have to. I'm not a bully. I don't like the thought of having to put my hands on anybody else. But I don't let people walk all over me, especially if my kids are around. So I'm not soft or weak, but that was hard. My therapist was like, you know,

boy, you're having these ups and downs, man. And you are increasingly worried about this unknown what's next. And he taught me the difference between fear and anxiety. Fear is where you have a specific point of what you're afraid of. You know, like I have a fear that Greg is going to get tired of this interview and punch me in the nose. Anxiety is where you have those feelings at apprehension, but it's nonspecific. You don't know what it is. And I had a lot of that where, well, what's it going to be next? What are they going to say next?

What am I going to hear next? What kind of bullshit is going to come next? And it was on my mind all the time, and it was affecting how I felt and how I acted. And my therapist was like, listen, there is medication for this. And again, I was resistant. I said, well, I only take that pediatric dose of the, and that was another thing. I learned that I was very sensitive to changes in my body chemistry. And so I was on like a pediatric dose of this anti-anxiety drug.

And he was like, really, it should be an antidepressant. And again, I had this feeling about stigma. And I was like, oh. And he was like, I don't understand. You're too smart to feel something so stupid that if it helps you, it's nothing unlike any other drug that you take. So I did it and it made a difference. I describe it as it being like a medicinal, like 10 count before I would react to a situation. Made me less edgy. Now, I still got plenty of asshole in me. All right. I can react badly. I can have a temper. I cannot think. I can be, I can regret what I say and what I do, but it helps. There's no question it helps. With the therapy, therapy really helps. I think that there are a lot of people who when they hear this, they're going to be like, oh, poor guy. Or I knew something was wrong with him. Or boy, he really got messed up by this. And I have to tell you, I really believe that that is

misplaced. I feel the same way about how I cope with those challenges as I do with the fact that my reconstructed right knee is not 100%. I feel the same way about them. And I didn't always feel that way, but it's the right way to feel. And I don't judge people because of what they have going on in their life. I judge people for not dealing with what they have going on in their life. And the more I've become interested in my own kind of balance and trying to be better, the more I've learned how many of us, how many of you don't because of fear, shame, stigma. So I started talking to psychiatrists and psychologists and people who are clinical and expert in this area. And they say, you know how hard it is to get people to take meds?

They don't want to tell anybody. They don't want anybody to know. They won't stay on it. And that's a problem because it's got a titrate. It's got to be in your system. This is sensitive stuff. And it's evolving as an area. I mean, there's definitely, you know, it's not vitamin C. It's not aspirin. You know, I mean, there's very much we don't know. I mean, even our understanding of depression is changing. And to what causes it and what does it mean? I mean, we still say, people say, oh, I'm depressed. And what they mean is that they're sad. That's not what it is, not just sad.

It's this gripping, overwhelming mood that you can't shake and that you often can't even explain and get judged as behavior when it's not. It's like blaming someone for having a fever. We have to get past it. We have to be better than this because all of you know that everything I'm saying is true.

You know it in your own life and the lives of people around you. And we're starting to get to a place where we tell people it's okay to ask for help. Therapy makes a difference for me. I'm not talking about perfection and believe me, I'm not holding myself up as any example of a solution. I'm an example of a problem, of a struggle, and I'm not going to lie about it. I'm not going to hide from it and I'm not going to pretend that it doesn't exist because it makes me less than in some fool's eyes.

Now, in some people, it's not that they're a fool. It's our cultural conditioning. Or it's ignorance. It can be any of those. But it's got to stop because it's pervasive. Mental health, and again, I've got to think, if you can think of a better phrase, I would love it because we got to stop breaking it out. You know what I mean? Because it's like, if you have IBS, okay, you have no problem talking to me about it. My gut health, the pitch I'm doing with the athletic greens, it helps my digestion. That's one of the main benefits for me, other than its ease, is that it helps me go to the bathroom, which is digestion is really important. And I don't have any shame in that. Why would I have shame in this? Oh,

because people are going to misunderstand it. People misunderstand half of what goes on in my life anyway. Why would this, when it matters so much, all of a sudden become a sensitivity that I'm going to respond to by cutting myself short? Why would I do that? Why would I do that to the relationships and the people in my life who I love and I want to be my best for? So I want you to know that. I want you to know that I have a therapist and that I take an antidepressant and I think it helps me. I'm not telling you to take one, but I am telling you that you need people in your life to talk to. And it's not always just a good friend or your partner. There's certain shit you don't want them to know. There's certain stuff they don't need to know,

and maybe they shouldn't know, and that's okay. And there are people who are professionals in helping you understand why you feel the way you do so you can act differently, and you can understand things, and you can recall things and put things together in a way that you hadn't before. We don't fake the funk here. And here's the real talk. Over 40 years of age, 52% of us experience some kind of ED between the ages of 40 and 70. I know it's taboo, it's embarrassing, but it shouldn't be. Thankfully, we now have HIMS, and it's changing the vibe by providing affordable access to ED treatment, and it's all online.

HIMS is changing men's health care. Why? Because it's giving you access to affordable and discreet sexual health treatments, and you do it right from your couch. and discreet sexual health treatments. And you do it right from your couch. HIMS provides access to clinically proven generic alternatives to Viagra or Cialis or whatever. And it's up to like 95% cheaper. And there are options as low as two bucks a dose.

HIMS has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers. So if ED is getting you down, it's time to pick it up. Start your free online visit today at HIMSS.com slash CCP. H-I-M-S dot com slash CCP. And you will get personalized ED treatment options. HIMSS.com slash CCP. Prescriptions, you need an online consultation with a healthcare provider, and they will determine if appropriate. Restrictions apply. You see the website, you'll get details and important safety information.

You're going to need a subscription. It's required. Plus, price is going to vary based on product and subscription plan. The Chris Cuomo Project is supported by Cozy Earth. Why? Because I like their sheets. That's why. A lot of people don't get a good night's sleep

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CozyEarth.com and the code is Chris. But I really believe that my life has taught me now, 52 years on, that it was harder when I wasn't dealing with it. And again, I'm not talking about some panacea here or something like that. I am in the struggle. I can't even believe that I'm sitting in my living room doing a podcast. I never even listened to podcasts

before all this shit went down. But life is change and life is pain management. And the only constant is change, right? Everything, all these cliches are cliches for a reason. And you've got to go with it. And you have to find the reason and whatever happens that motivates your reaction to the same. The obstacle is the way, Ryan Holiday's book,

about this stoic notion of seeing the challenge as within it and the process of dealing with it, you will find the solution. I believe that. It's hard. I still avoid a lot of stuff. I still am up and down in my behavior and diet, but I'm aware and I'm better because of the steps that I've taken. The same way I would be with my knee is better because I had it rebuilt. My neck, my collapsing discs, I had to go to the specialist and they had to give me the injections with a sonogram or something of this special steroid in my neck.

And I have to do these special things and I can't do other things. I take it seriously. I take care of myself. I listen to my doctors. Why wouldn't I do it when it comes to how I feel emotionally if I'm going to do it because of the level of inflammation in my body? We've got to talk about this like we talk about anything else. We have to treat it like we do with anything else because we're not. Even in problems we have with like mass shootings and school shootings.

You think it's a coincidence that we see mental health breakdown in so many of those? I'm not saying the mentally ill are violent. They are much more likely by percentage to be victims than assailants. But that doesn't mean that it can't manifest itself in violence when neglected, when people won't take medication, when they won't have their treatment taken seriously. It's just like any other health condition. It can get worse and manifest itself in behavior. But we don't talk about that. When we do, we use it as a scapegoat to not deal with why we're so freaking violent in the first place. I love watching fights. I love learning about self-defense.

I love knowing that I can show somebody else and myself what to do if somebody tries to hurt you. You know, why is everything that I love in sports somehow related to some type of violent action? You know, why are the crashes the most exciting thing and races and, you know, football? Why do we want these guys with the sizes of refrigerators that move at 25 miles an hour to bash into each other? There's a violence. There's a lust for that. There's an aggression in it. And I'm not going bad on any of that. I'm just saying we need to think about it because we do a lot of hurting of one another in our society. And yes, who gets guns and what type they are matters.

And yes, who gets guns and what type they are matters. I am a gun owner. But it's more than that. It's that and, you know. The idea of a single factor solution is always to be viewed suspiciously. Things are usually complicated. If you watch the comments, it won't be in the first batch. The first batch will be those of you who know I'm telling the truth and you appreciate that I am. And I thank you for that.

And then there'll be this next batch, which will be these little snarky assholes who are ignorant and going to use it and twist it for advantage. That's okay. It's all okay. But I want you to see it because I believe that just the same way you go on Twitter, on all your little jihads about whatever you care about in the moment, you should go after people who do that. Not about me. I'm fine. Again, I'm no victim. Let them say what they want to say. That's okay. That's part of putting yourself out there, which I absolutely make the choice to do. But if we're going to be in the canceling game about what behaviors we like and don't like, and what kind of crowdsourced consequence we think is okay, no matter what lack of process or of evidence. This is something where collective action is needed.

And there should be a shame campaign. You should not go after people because they admit that they have a struggle that they're trying to deal with. It's a mistake to do that. It's making us worse. At a minimum, it's keeping us from getting better. So I'm okay telling you what I deal with and how. It's not some extreme thing. I'm not putting myself out there as some poster child for profound illness or something like that. That wouldn't be fair to people who are. And I'm okay and I know

that. I'm very fortunate. I don't believe in luck. Maybe preparation meets opportunity, but I think what happens in your life is what you make happen. And because either you're doing it or it's being done to you, either way, you're going to have to make a choice and you're going to have to act. Sometimes action is inaction, but at the end of the day, you're responsible for your own life. And that comes to how you take care of yourself and how you treat where you're weak and where you need. And I believe in that. I actually believe I should do more of it. So I think you got to think about these things. I think we have to talk about them. I think you got to poke at them. And yes, here I am on the couch. and this is a confession of sorts because I don't really talk about it. And I think I don't.

35% is good reason, which is I'm talking about you. I'm talking about what's happening with you. But 65% is misplaced sense of privacy and not wanting to hear the bullshit and not wanting people to judge. But they judge anyway. So I'm not ashamed of taking care of myself and of not being perfect. And if you are flawed and you can help and you can deal with it, why wouldn't you? I'm telling you therapy has changed my life for the better. And I am able to deal with situations faster, more consistently and better because I have the input from somebody who's really

good at understanding the vagaries of life. And medicine helps me keep my balance and I have a crazy life. It's inherently I think unusual the amount of stressors and the amount of attention, the amount of, you know, all the stuff, all the good, all the bad. It's just a lot. I think it's okay to do what you need to do to get where you want to be.

So I'm willing to share. I'm very willing to listen. That's what the comment line is about, by the way. I just don't need attaboys. Thank you for them. The response to the project has been amazing. I love it. We got a long way to go. It does not bother me that they'll talk only when the numbers are down here, but then they're up here and nobody says anything. It's always been like that for me. That's okay. You were never flooded with stories about why I was number one at CNN. I don't have to be a media darling to be

effective. And I don't have to keep secrets about my own health and what I do to try to help myself when they may benefit you. So I want to hear your stories. I want you to learn from mine. Thank you for indulging me and listening, if you did. I want to hear from you about what your experience is and what you think is helpful for people to understand and what's been helpful for you. You can call, we'll put the number on the screen, 516-412-6307. Subscribe, follow. When you put in the comment, let me have your email. I'm not going to sell it or anything like that, but I want to start doing more offerings of videos. And I don't know about a newsletter. I'm open to your ideas about that as well. But I really want this to be collaborative.

That's why I call it a project. I really want us to be in it together. I believe in this. And I believe we can help each other. And I believe we can get to a better place. So thank you.