The Chris Cuomo Project - Could Stephen A. Smith Win an Election?

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

Stephen A. Smith (featured commentator and executive producer, ESPN’s “First Take, and podcast host, “The Stephen A. Smith Show”) joins Chris Cuomo to address speculation about whether he could run for office—and whether he’d ever consider it. He and Cuomo break down why media personalities are sometimes seen as political figures, what that says about the state of leadership in America, and why Trump continues to dominate the political landscape. They also discuss the Democratic Party’s struggles to connect with voters, Joy Reid’s exit from MSNBC, and whether political media could ever function like sports media. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Join Chris Ad-Free On Substack: http://thechriscuomoproject.substack.com Support our sponsors: Oracle Right now, Oracle is offering to cut your current cloud bill in HALF if you move to OCI. For new US customers with minimum financial commitment. Offer ends March 31st. See if your company qualifies for this special offer at Oracle.com/CCP Bamboo Reclaim your time. Check out the free demo at BambooHR.com/freedemo. See for yourself all that BambooHR can do – and how truly affordable it can be too!  Factor Eat smart with Factor. Get started at FACTORMEALS.COM/FACTORPODCAST and use code FACTORPODCAST to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping.  Cozy Earth Luxury Shouldn’t Be Out of Reach. Visit CozyEarth.com/CHRIS and use my exclusive code CHRIS for up to 40% off Cozy Earth’s best-selling sheets, towels, pajamas, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Support for the Chris Cuomo project comes from select quote. Listen, if you're in the family game and you want to take care of your family and your provider and you have your kids, right, and your significant other, you need to have a plan that includes insurance. Because otherwise you're just not being responsible for yourself. I wanted to avoid it. I didn't know if it was because I had fears of like, does that mean I'm like jinxing myself and wanting myself to die or isn't it a waste and don't I have a long time to do it or not? There's so many different products. That also was kind of daunting to me. That's why they made SelectQuote. It's one of America's leading insurance brokers.

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and get started. That's selectquote.com slash Chris C. Is there a man amongst us whose name we all know who could be a surprise entry for president three years from today? Yup, and I got him on the show. Chris Cuomo here. Welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. We're talking today to Stephen A. Smith.

I'm telling you now, the man is gonna be the hub of conversation in America. Why? Because of his ideas and what he wants? No, no, no. He's not driven by agenda. He's driven by resonance and wanting to make an impact. In sports, he can be for, he can be against,

people watch him because of his take, same things happening in politics. Why? Why him? Why not me? Why him? Why is he the flavor of the moment and it's just getting started? I wanted to talk to him about what's going on with him

and the perception of him within politics and something that I've never really heard him talk about before. He knows what it takes to make it in sports media. What does he think it takes to make it these days in political media? What are the differences between the two that he is observing as someone who is now,

if you think about it, who else is as big a deal in both as Stephen A. Smith is? So here he is on the podcast, Talkin' the Talk. Stephen A. Smith, thank you so much for the opportunity as always. My pleasure. What's up, my brother? How you doing? I am completely unobjective when it comes to you.

I am a friend. I am a supporter. I am a believer. And I care about you very deeply. And I want you to know that more than anything else. I'll never see you as just another member of the media. You matter to me. Feelings mutual, my brother.

It really is. And that's why I am torn about what do I do? Do I take a leave and help you run your presidential campaign? Or do I stay in my position and what my family wants and just support you from afar? What would you prefer? First of all, don't even think about me being a politician. I've seen it. I've seen it all over the media. I love my life. I love the life that I have. I love the life that I'm living.

And the reality is that I've never in my life wanted to be a politician. I've had aspirations to debate politicians, particularly on the presidential stage during a debate, something like that. But that's about it. I think it's been comical to me that my name is in it because I'm not qualified.

I learn from people like yourself and a litany of others that I've watched talk politics for years. I learn as I go along. Now I'm more interested in it than ever before. So I read more, I watch more, but I'm still in the learning stages of it. And so the way I look at it is that if you're the Democratic Party and my name is coming up as a presidential candidate, it should be an absolute embarrassment to you, a strong

indication of how far you have fallen as a party to have my name in the mix. Now, having said that, let me not lie. Knowing what I don't know, but being confident that I'm surrounded by people who do know, if you came to me three years from now and everything and I'm a prime candidate for the presidency of the United States having shown no interest and everybody said, man, you're the hope,

you're the guy, et cetera. Do I have confidence that I could win? Yes, I do. Do I have confidence that I would know what I'm doing because of the people surrounding me, guiding me and giving me knowledge, like you who'd probably be my chief of staff, I'd recruit you from television

and that's when I'd bring you in the mix and I'd have you as my chief of staff. Yeah, I mean, I'd have you from television, and that's when I'd bring you in the mix and I'd have you as my chief of staff. Yeah, I mean, I'd have to consider it, but it would take something catastrophic and beyond comprehension for me to even consider that. I saw you speaking on TV the other day, and please, you tell me if I have it wrong, because I could have sworn

that I saw you making a hand gesture like this when you were talking. The thumb was over the top and you had this very steady rhythm that was completely in sync with the point you were making as you were making it. Now, I don't remember you ever doing that before you were mentioned as a potential presidential candidate. Am I wrong about the gesture and do you see the correlation? I see the correlation

you are not wrong about the gesture I was just having fun I do it all the time when I'm imitating politicians so I bring I do it I do it all the time on the ESPN I say my name is Stephen A Smith and I approve this message I do stuff like that in some sentences I say God bless you and God bless the United States of America. So I go stuff like that and everybody's like, oh my God, this is crazy. And I have fun with it. Again, I really, really do. It's comical to me because, listen, I interviewed Josh Shapiro on my podcast. I've interviewed Wes Moore. I've interviewed Byron Donalds. I just interviewed Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. There are Republicans that I'm going to interview down the pike as well.

I've interviewed you, I've interviewed John Hannity. There's a plethora of pundits and commentators that I've interviewed. I've always been fascinated by the world of politics and talking about it, but it's to learn and it's to decipher who's closer to right than being wrong. I've always been fascinated about that as it pertains to the world of politics,

but that doesn't mean that I have a strong desire to be a politician. I'd prefer to stay what I'm doing, even if it is in the political stratosphere. Well, part of it is about the competitive drive to make a difference. When you look at Byron Donalds, do you say, irregardless of how you feel about him, I can take him.

Byron Donalds? Mm-hmm. I don't think so. I think, listen, I've watched him get interviewed, I've watched him speak, and although I don't like his flagrant support of Trump, where he shoves aside just anything that Trump has done, when you get into the weeds talking politics with this man

about what conservatives offer compared to Democrats, I find it very difficult to imagine a Democrat in front of him being able to beat him on the issues, because I think he knows what he's talking about. And I think he speaks in a way that resonates with an audience. So he has the facts, he has inside knowledge about what takes place, and on top of it all, he has the personality where he's feisty enough to come back at you and resonate with a viewing

audience. I don't see a lot of that on the Democratic side. Josh Shapiro, I think, is a star, has that kind of potential. He's entrenched in Pennsylvania as its governor. You think Josh Shapiro, By think, is a star, has that kind of potential. He's entrenched in Pennsylvania as its governor. You think Josh Shapiro, Byron Donald, who wins? I think that Byron Donald would probably win in a close fight with that. And just in terms of their styles

and how they come at one another, I think Wes Moore is a wild card. I find Wes Moore to be elite and highly impressive. And he knows when to turn it on and when to dial it back. is a wild card. I find Westmore to be elite and highly impressive. And he knows when to turn it on and when to dial it back. Westmore has no weakness. None, no weakness. Now you can say being a black man in America

will be perceived certainly among members of the minority community, not all of them, but that is a perceived weakness, maybe, maybe, but on paper, he has no weakness. He has no weaknesses. I think the only weakness that I can point to about Westmore and the possibility of him being a president of the United States really has nothing to do with him.

It's the fact that Barack Obama was once president, because let's call it what it is. If Barack Obama had never been the president of the United States, I don't think Trump would have ever become the president. 100%, I'm with you. Reaction formation. Reaction formation.

White backlashes, they call it, I think played an integral role in Trump ultimately winning the election in 2016. And I think that it could potentially play a role in holding back Westmore, because whether people want to pay attention to it or not, the American population is still 57 percent white. And even though you've got a percentage of blacks and Hispanics in this country

that can make a difference, the white power structure is still in place. And somehow, some way, if there's a level of victimhood that's attached to that, where you have people looking at liberal policies that have been taking place over the last few years. In terms of just what they've articulated,

some of the positions that they've taken, I don't wanna say liberal policies per se, but some of the positions that particularly- That's a good distinction. I think it has served to hurt the party. And it's hard to overcome that if you're Westmore, considering the things I mentioned. I think it's a good distinction. I think it's a serve to hurt the party. Yeah. And it's hard to overcome that if you're Westmore considering the things I mentioned.

I think it's a good distinction. Three points first, Westmore only has one weakness. When I whooped his ass in the Bills Baltimore Ravens bet, whooped his ass, he ghosted me, ghosted me. He didn't ghost me. Yeah, I know. Well, he took you to school. He took you to school. He beat me. He beat me. He took you to the game and he took you to school. He beat me to steal us because if someone steals us, then you're dead.

And I got to tell you, you did not come off well in that whole situation. And I respect a man that doesn't lose well, so it only helped my respect for you. But he ghosted me for a while. And then the texts were very vanilla after that, very, did not have the panache, did not have the flavor they had had before. But other than that, Westmore on paper, I do not like prospects of going up against that man. And other than color, which I don't even think is fair,

I don't even think Obama is even close to what he is on paper. I mean, that man checks every alpha mailbox and every Renaissance mailbox. So Westmore is the real deal. You made a great distinction when you said not issues, positions. You just put your finger once again on the problem for the Democrats. If the Democrats were to get back to Ted Kennedy, Jesse Jackson, Bill Clinton democratic issues, they're right back in the fight like that. Work in man and woman, live and let live, make sure the government's protecting the people who need protection, but otherwise not telling us

what to do. Very suspicious of government overreach for the elites. Those are the bedrock issues. Instead of that, to your point, positions, trans, 80, 20 issues that they are on the 20 side, illegal immigration, oh well, they're here illegally, but these are bad look things, government efficiency. Well, yeah, we wanna find government money, but it's the but that's killing the Democrats right now because they seem to be defenders

of what offends the majority and keeps the status quo as it is. You're absolutely right. I would tell you that the reason why that's so damaging is a couple of reasons. Number one, those folks that we talked about, it could be a Westmore, it could be a Shapiro, it could be others, right?

Even though they knew better, their voices were very, very quiet when the progressives were pulling people far left. I'm talking about on a national scale. Because they cancel them. So automatically, that provokes the response from the right or the center. Where were you? How come you didn't speak up about this before, et cetera, et cetera?

Were you complicit in what transpired during the 2024 election? And why should we have faith in you now? That's number one. You got to look at that. Number two, when I think about the progressives and how they pulled and you talk about what the Democratic Party was all about, the working class, et cetera, and I think about the progressives and how they pulled, and you talk about what the Democratic Party was all about, the working class, et cetera,

and we see that the Republicans have sort of snatched that narrative from them to some degree. Well, how the hell did that happen? One of the reasons is that they'll tell you, we're looking out for everybody. Well, there's a problem with that. You were so busy looking out for everybody that you got more focused on less than 1% of the population

than you were paying attention to, the 13 to 20% or more of blacks and Hispanics and what their issues were in this country. So once again, we have a situation where you're trying to appease everybody and then you end up hurting more than you're helping because you don't adopt the mentality that everybody can't be pleased. What's our issue when we look at the state of California?

If you talk to Gavin Newsom, he doesn't seem like a bad guy, very polished, very smart, very sharp, certainly looks the part. And then he opens his mouth and he starts getting to the moral high ground of issues. And not understanding, you don't care about that if there's crime in the streets. You don't care about that if unemployment is ravaging our city.

You don't care about that if businesses are being compromised, if the economy is bad, et cetera, and they don't seem to get that. And that's the problem. Messaging matters, amplified minorities from social media that the media made Vox populi, killed really mainstream party ideology. So the people on the left had to fear the progressives, the ascendance of AOC, huge reach on social media, almost no resonance with the majority, almost no impact as a lawmaker.

Why? Because she can't operate within the system. So they say then destroy the system. Okay, but it hasn't happened yet. The majority, this is a center left or right country, depending on the issue. And social media is fringes. So you see the fringe is dominating the Republican Party

and the fringe was dominating the Democratic Party. Why do I say was? Because there is a blessing in utter defeat. In utter defeat, when you get beat by someone who had no business beating you, and that is Donald Trump. Donald Trump had no business coming back from where they had him. Never. Even among Republicans, his numbers were always upside down in a way that is unusual for a resurgence. So for

him to beat you by as you perfectly put on Bill Maher's show, real-time, he approximated normal to a majority of Americans more than the Democrats did. Now there's an opportunity. You know what got you here will not get you where you wanna be. So they have an opportunity to rediscover themselves. When you talk to Hakeem Jeffries, do you believe he has the secret sauce

of reconnecting to the majority? I won't go that far. I believe he has the mentality. Does he have the impact? That's the question. I think what he says is correct. I think he's an individual that's center left. I think he knows what common sense is, what it looks like,

and what it needs and where it's lacking in the Democratic Party. But does he have the voice that will resonate nationally to have an impact with the Democratic Party? I'm not sure that is the case. I know that I enjoyed talking to him. I enjoyed my conversation with him. He filibustered a lot because they all do, and we get that. I know that I enjoyed talking to him. I enjoyed my conversation with him. He filibustered a lot because they all do,

and we get that. You know that's significantly better than me. I'm getting used to that, still trying to learn how to work around that. But I appreciated and respected what he was saying. I just didn't listen to him and found myself thinking. He can impact his colleagues on Capitol Hill in such a fashion that would provoke the change that's needed.

And one of the things that I've said, and I've said it to numerous Democrats over the last few months, the progressive left, what the hell are y'all doing capitulating to them? Where the hell are they gonna go? They're gonna vote for somebody on the right? I mean, they're pulling you far left. They got to have somebody as close to the left as possible. If they don't vote for you, what are they going to vote for somebody on the right? I mean, they're pulling you far left. They got to have somebody as close to the left as possible. If they don't vote for you, what are they going to get done?

Why are y'all surrendering yourself and being at the mercy of them when the vast majority of y'all are sent to left, know what the word compromise is and its definition, and are willing to exercise it? Why are you capitulating to them? It makes absolutely, positively no sense. And it just shows me there's a level of detachment from the public at large, because the public in all likelihood

would ask the same thing of you that I just asked. Detachment from the mainstream, attachment to social media reality. That's the alchemy they got wrong. And look, I get it. I get the jealousy because that made Trump. So you're asking me to avoid what made him. Well, that's how it goes though.

Just if your opponent is working an angle, the idea that you're gonna work the same one and win is very low percentage. Well, can I say this real quick? Go ahead. If that's the case, if that's the mentality, then damn it, why didn't you just move out of Bernie Sanders' way and let him be the Democratic nominee? You see what I'm saying?

It's like you can't have it both ways. In other words, Bernie Sanders was in the mix. They moved him out of the way conveniently because it was Hillary's turn. They moved him out of the way again conveniently because it was Joe Biden's turn. And there was little to nothing that the progressives could do about it.

If you really, really felt that way and you were gonna lean, then damn it, lean all the way in. Get Bernie Sanders. I'm with you in terms of theory. I mean, look, the problem with Bernie versus Trump was, you know, aside from presentation, Bernie was too deep on issues.

He was putting too much meat on the bones of things he wanted to do that is so inherently socialistic. Right. That even though it may be to the benefit of the same group of Americans who are gonna reject it in favor of capitalistic things, it doesn't sound American. So that was his problem. He was too definite.

I agree. Whereas Trump just shits on whatever the status quo is and that works better in politics. And by the way, both of us, I don't know, I think I know this about you, neither of us are socialists. Now don't get me wrong, we ain't trying to lean as far right

with capitalistic tendencies as some on the right may do, but we damn sure believe in capitalism to some degree and not the guys like Bernie Sanders and others who are more socialist. I wouldn't have voted for Bernie Sanders. I can tell you that much, but if you're gonna lean that far, go ahead and lean all the way in was my point. I wouldn't have voted for Bernie Sanders.

You know, and I'll tell you why. I was one of the first, this is all easy for people at home to go back and look. Look at who on TV was, I'll give myself, I'll qualify it, among the first wave, okay? I really believe I was first, but among the first wave of people who were positioning Bernie Sanders as a legit presidential presence, and it was me at CNN. Why? Because I used to have him on all the time making populist arguments. Because I really believe that populism is underserved as just negative reaction formation.

Populism now is just what you're angry at, what you're outraged by. And that's only one flavor of populism, whereas there are a lot of policy considerations and governmental conditions that should serve a populist movement that are positive and that should be seen that way as opposed to just negativity. So I had him on and he used to joke, not unlike how Stephen A. Smith jokes in this particular moment,

about how nobody wants me to be president and nobody wants to hear these things, nobody wants to do these things. And then he started getting momentum on social media and within parts of the left. And he became what he was in that moment. And you're absolutely right about the party pushing him aside, which was fine

if they weren't battling a fringe atmosphere, which they misdiagnosed at that time with Trump and then again this time with Trump. And you can't forgive somebody for making the same mistake twice because they didn't learn anything the first time. They did the same thing, they made mistakes with Biden. We all know that. Support comes from Shopify. So you want to be a success in selling. It is not so much about the product as it is placement and performance of the shopping experience of that product. That's the key.

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right here on the podcast, all right? Sanctuary awaits at Cozy Earth. Now, one of the problems is also something we're struggling with very mightily in our society that you now have a wider view on, which is the mindlessness, the pure visceral nature of reactions on social media. Sports is deep on the fields. People love you, they hate you, they love the team, they hate the team, but there is an underlying entertainment value to it for everybody. Yeah, I'm a Knicks fan, and if you're a Celtics fan,

I got a problem with you, but not the way Democrats and Republicans have problems with each other, okay? You know, you would never see them trying to hurt one another physically, except if it's at a game and they're drunk, right? So you're getting open and exposed to that now. And that's something that is a big factor in how people go about their business in politics.

Shouldn't be, but it is. And it takes me to what happened with you and Carville. And remember my prediction, James Carville, when with you face to face, will be flattering of you, welcome you to the dynamic, and say that what he was saying was either taken out of context or not really meant that way. And I'm just saying, I see the Democrats different than you. I guarantee, I'll bet you whatever you want.

One of your pretty full yards that you're wearing right now, I'll bet you one, if I'm assuming I can afford it, which I probably still can, that he will not be how he is talking about you because that's the podcast game. So James Carville says, Stephen A. Smith needs to stick to sports. I don't think he was doing a shut up and dribble.

Like we heard with, I don't believe that about Jimmy at all. Jimmy is an equal opportunity offender and policy guy. But how did you take that, that he's saying, hey, you're going after the Democrats. One, you should be a Democrat. So two, shut up. First of all, I did not take it as him telling me to shut up a dribble.

There were an abundance of people that are close to me who took it that way, and I had to calm them down. I said, one of the things that I hate is when we go out there and we attach a level of cynicism to something that is unwarranted. Let's make it work, let's make it count. If that's what I thought,

I wanna have a pretty damn good reason for thinking that. James Carville was reacting to what he thought I said that there was no talent on a Democratic side. That's not what I was saying. He had misquoted me, maybe he misunderstood. Because I know Westmore, and obviously I've interviewed Josh Shapiro, and I'm very fond of both of them.

What I was saying is that there's no national voice to combat the cult-like following that Trump has and what he has set up alcohlytes and surrogates ultimately to receive down the pike. Who's that for the Democratic Party? That's what I was pointing to. So first of all, I thought James was wrong in that regard in terms of misconstruing what I said.

Having said all of that, I also thought that he either was engaging in selective amnesia or genuinely forgot that most of the points I was making were points that he had made over the previous year plus. He was saying the same things about the Democratic Party that I lamented. And he was right back then. And he was right back then.

So I'm saying, what is it, James Carver? Evidently, you're not listening to me because I said some of the same things that you said. So evidently, I know a little. And even if I didn't know a little, I echoed what you said. What's your problem? If you wanna come to the defense

or you wanna engage in some vitriolic response towards somebody, shouldn't you be aiming it at democratic officials who ignored you or some of the strategists and what have you? I mean, it was his anger, his disgust or whatever was misplaced. And he invited me on his podcast and I've accepted. I'm going on his podcast.

In a matter of days, nobody's running, nobody's hiding because I know what I don't know. I know that I haven't covered this landscape the way Chris Cuomo has. I know that I haven't been associated with the Democratic Party in my lifetime to the degree that a veteran like James Carville has done so. He has served this country.

He's a former U.S. Marine. He obviously was a Democratic strategist and campaign guy for Bill Clinton. It's the economy, stupid, is still one of the most favorite phrases in the history of politics. I respect him, but I had very little respect for how he elected to come at me. And I just said to myself, I just said on camera when I

followed it up on my show, perhaps it's not that, it's not what I said. It's the fact that I'm the one that was being listened to instead of you. You understand? And maybe that's what you need to deal with, okay? Because I believe people should still be listening to James Carville, but that doesn't mean these young pups

on the Democratic side who have been assigned to be strategists, who are members of the DNC and what have you, have taken that advice and are listening to him. Sometimes a veteran like him has animosity and has, you know, they're a bit upset because the new guard comes in and moves out the old guard. I'm not one of those people that's a part of that, you know, that apparatus. I'm saying, look, this is what it is. You know it, I know it. And I just, I personally think that he looked a bit foolish coming at me like that, but I didn't lose any sleep over it.

I wasn't fazed by it. And that's the way it is. I think you're in a sweet spot because you're a disruptor. You're an outsider who is very conventional in their thinking and reasonable. And you have no overt agenda. So I believe that you are in a sweet spot of where America's moving.

It's ugly, it's cataclysmic right now, but you don't have to fight your way through the jungle because you're a made man in the media already because of your excellence at what you do. I wanna look at sports two different ways. First, now that you are resonating in both arenas, as far as I'm concerned, what is the difference to you in terms of what the vibe is

in what works and doesn't work in the sports media and the political media. What do you perceive as the difference in the two worlds? It's a very interesting question. Never been asked it, never thought about it. Just off the top of my head, I would tell you that with sports, it's more based on merit than with politics, in media. See, in the end, you could be mad at me for what I have to say.

Your jump shot ain't great. You don't play good enough defense. I think this team is better than you, or whatever the case may be. But the game still has to be played. And the game and the performance will ultimately determine whether I'm right or whether I'm wrong. In the world of politics, it's like an amoeba or something. You can't wrap your arms, your fists, your hands, rather,

around getting something finite and definitive. This is what it is. Yes, the election was won by Donald Trump, but everything else is up in the air. Go talk to Democrats right now. There's no Trump mandate. He didn't even get 50% of the vote. He had 49.8%.

We had 48.3%. It's only 1.5% of points. We were on your show, Chris, and Representative Clyburn tried to give us that argument. And both of us were tussling with each other to jump right at him and say, excuse me, you lost every swing state. You lost the popular vote.

You lost the electoral college vote. You lost about 50 counties. You lost the young vote. You lost the Hispanic vote. You lost, I'm talking about compared to what it was in 2020. You've dipped in all of these things. What are you talking about?

But that's what they were saying. And that's what they're still saying. And so somehow, some way, when it comes to that, which is, I think contributes to the frustration that American citizens feel, you wanna feel, if you sit down, Chris, and you study, you want to feel like you know. Let's go take the test.

These are the answers. And come to find out, the answer is subject to what the professor's definition is on that particular day. So all that damn studying you did ended up for being nothing. That's the American citizen. The American citizen is looking at you and saying, wait a minute, I studied this, I watched, I listened, I read,

and I did all of that for nothing because you're telling me what I saw, what I read, what I witnessed wasn't what I thought it was. That is what drives the American people crazy. So Donald Trump comes along and because sometimes he comes across as a bit incoherent, to say the least, okay, but he speaks in very general and simplistic terms.

They're like, I understand him. I get him. It resonates with me. I'm good. And that's the world that we're living in. That would never fly in sports, but it flies in politics, including political media.

Something that you do really well, and I'm getting killed doing this right now, but I'm gonna keep doing it anyway, which is, and it's the difference between sports and politics, and you isolate it perfectly. You and I will argue about what's gonna happen in the game, and then the game is played, and you were right, and I will argue about what's gonna happen in the game. And then the game is played and you were right and I was wrong.

And that's how it is. And there is no, but it was rigged. And look, they'll say that shit about the refs and the chiefs and whatever it is, the game's over. The chiefs are moving on. You can say it was rigged, but it's over. And you've seen the refs go different ways, different games, and I say, you got me on that one, Stephen A. And people respect

that part. In politics, if you are apologizing or explaining, you are losing. And it's because of this lack of definiteness in what's right and wrong. So if you apologize, you're weak. Whereas in the sports world, well, I mean, he said that Adesanya would never get beat and he just got beat. So what do you mean he's not admitting it? Well, you know, what does it mean?

So I think there's a clarity that we crave in politics that you do get in sports. You do crave the clarity. That is true. But it's not that you can't apologize in politics. It's who's apologizing and how do you do it. It's not about the stratosphere that you're living in. It's about who the messenger is.

You're not going to convince me, let's say, for example, that you're living in, it's about who the messenger is. You're not going to convince me, let's say for example, that I do decide to run and I'm in a political race. In three years, as you said you were open to doing on this show. Listen, if I'm sitting up there, or I should say stand up.

Don't change what you said, I'll run it. I'll run what you said earlier. Stampeding in 2028, right? You can't tell me that I'm gonna lose because I acknowledge that a Republican is right about something. I'd go like, what if I did it like this, right? You can't tell me that I'm gonna lose because I acknowledge that a Republican is right about something. I go like, what if I did it like this, Chris? You know what?

Oh, bravo, bravo. A dead clock is right twice a day, I'll give you that one. All of a sudden it's funny. All of a sudden it's a sharp line that counter what they may throw in my direction, and then boom, here we go. But if you're trying to be typical polished politician, conventional politician that we've been watching

sift through for decades while our climate in this country has eroded before our very eyes, while our deficit has ballooned by the way, is over $36 trillion, with those are the things that you're asking the American public to stomach, they're not going to do that. But if your message is unique,

if the messenger is unique, and you're just as sharp as a tack as your opposition, if not more so, yes, you can say, you got me on that one, that's a good point. I'm glad that you do. Listen, I'm either gonna be right, or I'm gonna learn from my mistakes and elevate my edification,

and I'll be even more potent tomorrow, and next week, and next month. When you talk like that, that's something that can resonate. I'm smelling what you're cooking. Three years I'm there, there's only one guy that I'd have to choose over you. There's only one guy, okay? And right now, I don't even know where he lives,

let alone where he'll be in three years. But if it's not, if the guy doesn't have the same last name as me, then I'm on your team. I only have a couple of conditions. One, I'm not wearing a tie every day. Okay, I'm not wearing a tie every day. When I'm on team, I want you, you beautiful man. Sartorial prowess. I'll give it to you. One is that, and two, don't fire me if I hit somebody. If I hit somebody who won't shut up and won't take your name out of their mouth, lying about you, I'm gonna hit them.

Well, no, no, no, I would definitely fire you over that because I would say to you- Can't fire me. I want that in the clause. Your skin has to be tougher than that. Listen, I get attacked every day. It doesn't faze me at all. If no one is complaining about what I'm doing,

then I'm not doing about what I'm doing, then I'm not doing much and I'm not having an impact. I've accepted that a long time ago. It doesn't faze me at all. And I think a lot of people in our business, not you, but I think a lot of people in our business have very, very, very thin skin. They're not made for this.

They think they are, but they're not. And I love playing with it. Look, I mean, you know, you've been around me enough. As long as my kids, as long as your daughter, my daughter, as long as they're not around, this is what we signed up for. What we signed up for. And listen, my father had to teach it to me

as a young kid when he got into public service and our lives changed so dramatically. We would always joke that we went from all in the family, like Middle Village, Queens, Archie Bunker World is where we grew up, to Benson. Which is when he became governor, it was like Benson. And he signed us up for it. And there was a responsibility that came with it. And I get in trouble.

It's different than somebody whose dad isn't in public life gets in trouble. Then with Andrew, and then I went into the media, so I signed up for it. So I love playing about what I would like to do, but of course you never do that because you signed up for it. You signed up for the criticism and the heat. The Chris Cuomo Project is brought to you by the audio marketing gurus at Radioactive Media. Congratulations, you've survived 2024. Now the question is, how are you as a business owner or CMO, how are you going to ensure that your business continues to survive, but even more so that it thrives? How about using something that's reliable, that's stable, especially for your marketing

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Just one and done, every morning, one spoonful, in a cup of warm water, and I'm good to go. And it gives me the vitamins, the minerals, the nutraceuticals, the probiotics, the prebiotics, the adaptogens, all the stuff I need for gut health, for mental health. You know, it's all in there. They've taken the time to do the research and it's gotta work. They've been around so long, they've had so much testing, they have so many millions of customers, okay?

And I'm telling you, my plan is working. That means the components of it can't be hurting me. And one of the most consistent parts of my process has been AG1. So look, it's never too late to create a new healthy habit for 2025. Try AG1 for yourself. It's something I've actually been able to stay consistent with, and that's why I've been partnering with AG1 for so long, and I'd love to do more. So AG1, get this, offering new subscribers a free $76 gift when you sign up.

You'll get a welcome kit, a bottle of D3K2, and five free travel packs in your first box. So make sure to check out drinkag1.com slash CCP for the Chris Cuomo project, show us some love to get this offer. That's drinkag1.com slash CCP to start your new year on a healthier note. Now I will say one thing. The idea, and I've heard Bill do this also. And I think it's interesting. Bill who? Bill O'Reilly or Bill Maher?

O'Reilly, O'Reilly. No, Maher gets it. See, Maher gets it because he's an outside the box thinker. So Maher takes everybody as he finds them, right? Bill Maher is a thinker, a little bit of a philosopher, and a comedian, of course. But he takes you as your ideas are found. That's what he is.

He doesn't see shape. That's not how he thinks. Bill O'Reilly is more conventional. So first couple of times we were on together, I would hear him say, let me put this in a sports way so that Stephen A gets it. And I knew what he was trying to do. He wasn't trying to be as condescending as it came off.

But I'll tell you something. I actually think that people have more business stepping from the world of sports or entertainment into politics than vice versa. And I'll tell you why. Sports commentating is all about data and expertise of understanding different dynamics in sports.

Like people sometimes will say to me, you know, you should do some MMA stuff. You know, you love it so much, you train in it and all these years, you should do it. I don't know enough. I don't know enough, but in politics, you're a citizen. You have a vote, you have a household, you experience the plus and minus of politics on your life.

I actually believe you have more portfolio coming into this world without the level of acumen that you've already developed than vice versa. I sit on a set talking about the Knicks. I love the Knicks. I played ball. I was a very distinguished mediocre basketball player. And, but I don't know the things.

Well, you guys know where people went to high school and what their stats were 12 years ago. People in politics don't know where their representatives went to college. Most Americans don't even know who their representatives are but they know where their starting point guard is. We're dealing with different worlds of information. Let me tell you this.

So when Bill does that, let me give it to you a way that you understand it. Some people find themselves getting offended by that as well. They don't know me very well. I look at Bill O'Reilly, people like yourself, even the Sean Hannity and others, Mark Levin, both of whom I know, et cetera, et cetera. I look at them like I look at pro football and basketball players that I debate on television

every day. I don't give a damn what I know about sports. I don't know what they know. Being in the locker room on that level. And even if I do, I make sure to couch it in a very respectful way where I'm saying to them, okay, you're the athlete, I'm the pundit, I'm the reporter, I'm walking up to you in your locker room and I'm telling you, this is what I see. Before I write this or before I go on the air and talk about this, tell me what you

think. Tell me if you think I'm wrong, et cetera, et cetera. Because it changes everything. They don't view me as somebody who believes I'm on their level when I know I'm not. That insults them because the work that they had to put in to get to where they are is something I was incapable of pulling off. So why disrespect them like that?

There's nothing more disrespectful to a professional athlete than you walking up to them acting like you've done what they do. And that you have knowledge, intricate knowledge, the locker room, coaching, all of this other stuff that they have. But when you come to them and say, actually, I'm an expert because you taught me how to be one. You told me this. You told me that. I listened to you. I asked you.

I went and did my research as well, blah, blah, blah. All of a sudden, they embrace it differently because you're embracing and acknowledging the fact that they're here. And even if you're here, they pulled you up to that by bestowing that knowledge on you. That's the same way I view you guys in politics. I can give you my opinion based on the news, based on what I've seen reported,

based on the intel that's out there, based on my conversations with you, et cetera, but I will never walk up to you or walk up to a Bill O'Reilly who's been doing this for 50 plus years and think that I'm him. So because of that, he understands. That's why, when have you, and I will ask this question,

I would challenge anybody to tell me when have they seen Bill O'Reilly smile more than when he's on the air with me. Because I nudge at him, but he knows that I'm coming from a respectful place because I'm not him. I would never come at Chris Cuomo like that. I don't know what you know, period. I can tell you what I think.

I can challenge you on something, but at that moment I stand back and I say, wait a minute now, this is the man. He's blessing me with knowledge. Let me listen to this. And if I got a way to get him, I'm gonna get him. But other than that, no, I gotta give it to him. He's the one with the knowledge.

And I treat everybody like that. I recognize what my lane is, and I recognize what other people's lane is and I know what I'm ascending to, but it will never be to the point where I think I know more than those who've done this for a living. And I think that's what works for me. I think that coming from that position of modesty,

look, I could debate you on it in terms of whether that's the way you need to approach it, doesn't matter, you're making your own choices. I still say the same thing. And I have one more other topic I want to touch on you and then we'll let it go. But it will be proof of premise. Stephen A. Smith, one of the reasons that I agreed to do the event with Bill and Stephen in Long Island is nothing like this has ever been done before, where you have three people who see the world differently,

have different experiences, and they will engage in the art of conversation and storytelling about things that I'll, it's so absurd that I'm going to do this, but I'll do it, which is I'm going to tell you stories when we're together in Long Island that I wouldn't say at News Nation because I don't want them to have to own it. And I know people are going to record it and put it out anyway, and nothing I'm going to say is untrue. But nobody's ever done it before. And I know that conversation is the cure. And I also want to be on record as being in league with Stephen A. Smith because he's going to be the hub of conversation in America because everybody wants to talk to him.

Nobody is afraid of what he represents in terms of agenda. And that's why he'll always be able to have conversation about what matters, even the sticky bits like this. Joy Reid, okay? Mm-hmm. She gets cut by MSNBC. I had said she was gonna get cut months and months ago. Why? Underperformance.

I feel the same way about the CNN primetime lineup. It's underperforming. When I was at CNN, I was constantly afraid of not building on Anderson Cooper's lead in because I had a boss who would say to me every time I didn't build on the lead in, which was very rarely, I could just take somebody else. I could take somebody else. So that was always my mentality. I see under performance, I know you're vulnerable.

I see somebody who's saying things in Joy Reid's case, a provocateur, she is a provocateur, smart as hell, but a provocateur, had said stuff in the past that was homophobic, she got a pass, had said stuff about Trump's assassination that would get me fired if I had said I think this was a setup I'm not sure people really shot at him. I would have been fired by News Nation as important as I am to them I would have had a problem. She didn't I saw that as about an accommodation to her now She gets fired. Rachel Maddow, the biggest name at NBC News, got a huge deal to do a podcast

that isn't exactly killing it, says MSNBC is racist for getting rid of Joy Reid because they don't have that many blank anchors and they just got rid of one. Stephen A. Smith says? False. I don't know. Why? You only have, I'll argue the other side. You only have a couple of them. And now you're getting rid of one.

Okay. Because of what she says, which is a reflection of how Black America views these current events. And you're basically saying you're shutting down that position. I'm going to do you a favor. And I'm going to, I'm always, I try to be honest at all times. I'm going to be a bit raw. And I'm going to give it to be honest at all times, I'm gonna be a bit raw and I'm gonna give it to you straight

from my position which has upset the black community on several occasions. Joy Reid, I think she's an incredible talent. She's very, very smart. There was a 42% drop in the ratings since Trump was elected. There's no escaping that. You brought up the mistakes that she's made in the past. But if you go with a 42% drop, you know you're in trouble.

As the saying goes, whether it's true or not, black folks always feel this way. We gotta be twice as good to get half as much. And even then it's a struggle. We understand that. So understanding that, you have to understand you can't afford a 42% drop. Most importantly, you can't engage in a kind of rhetoric,

as you would say, that would get somebody else fired. She did that anyway. That's where I come in and where it gets a bit dicey for me. Because on one hand, I want my sister on the air for as long as she can be on the air. I'm rooting for her, okay? On the other side of it, I can't tell you how many times I've seen black people, my people,

in positions of influence or power who have blown it because they had to speak out in a way that was so incendiary that they're thinking about the 15 minutes in front of them instead of the 15 years they could have. It's a marathon, it's not a sprint. You brought in lead-ins. Anderson Cooper was your lead-in.

I'll brag a little bit. In 15 years, I've lost to my lead-in twice. In 15 years, I don't lose to lead-ins. I always make sure. That's not to knock the lead-in. I appreciate the lead-in, but I understand what the mandate is, what my job, what my responsibility is,

and I pay attention to that. It's a numbers game. A lot of times, particularly in today's day and age, where folks are getting laid off, fired, furloughed, whatever, you gotta produce numbers. You know what, when you produce numbers, the level of tolerance is elevated too. When you plummet, the level of tolerance plummets.

And so, you know, to me, I thought Morning Joe was in a world of trouble because of what they were doing prior to the election and how they had to go to Mar-a-Lago and, figuratively speaking, kiss the ring. I don't think stuff is finished on any of the networks when you see how Trump is targeting these folks and he's coming for a few people.

There's no doubt about it. But the point that I'm making is that there are very few of us who get the opportunities that a Joy Reid gets, along with a plethora of others. I can bring up Don Lemon when he was at CNN and what have you. I didn't want Don Lemon gone. I appreciated you as the lead-in, and then ultimately it was with Don Lemon, and I appreciated

the work that he did, particularly leading up to the 2020 election and stuff like that. But we couldn't forget the fact that despite the fact that his numbers were better at that time than they had ever been, he was still a distant third to Fox News and MSNBC. He did not hold his lead in. Excuse me? He did not hold his lead in.

That's right. And so that's the whole point. And so with that going on, it was inescapable. I didn't want him to go, I didn't want him gone. And to me, it's about us understanding. And what I try to do is I'm about my business and I focus on that because I'm trying to let people from my community who are venturing into this business know

what the mandate is supposed to be. Live up to that first. And even then, could you go after somebody with just the facts as opposed to verbiage that engages in name calling and other, you know, other volatile rhetoric where people are able to look at you and say, you know what, we're talking about them not being the adult in the room.

What about you being the adult in the room? I think those things are incredibly important, especially when it comes to us, because whether we want to admit it or not, we are always, always, always held to a different standard in corporate America, no matter how much times have changed, and we need to remember that.

I accept your position. Let's do a quick point for point on it. You get rid of Joy Reid, you didn't get rid of anybody else. It's about her being a black woman. I would feel, I would tell you yes, but that's because I'm a black man and I'm inclined to believe that's what the case is because it always is the case.

But I can't ignore the 42% drop, Chris. But everybody's down. Everybody's down, everybody's down. You had to bring back Maddow. You pushed out Alex Wagner because she stunk. And now you bring back Maddow. She's not doing that great. You're not getting rid of her. She just called you a racist.

You're not getting rid of her, but you got rid of me because I'm the Black woman. And by doing that, you empowered people to pretend that race is irrelevant. And I got Megyn Kelly chewing on my ass as Joy Reid, saying, I'm the racist. I got fired as proof that I'm racist when I was fighting against people like her

who believe that diversity is some kind of myth. And now you've empowered it because you got rid of the black lady. Joy Reid, and I wanna be very clear, Joy Reid would be right. All of those people would be wrong. But you know who you are, you know what obstacles you have to face, and you know you're dealing with a 42% drop. If you ask any black person in America, all of us are plummeting. All of us are struggling.

Who do I think they're going to let go of first? We'd all say me. All of us. Because we don't expect the system to be fair. So if you don't expect the system to be fair, prioritize what wins, as opposed to venting. And that's what we can't lose sight of. In other words, win. Yeah, I want to make this noise.

I want to point the finger at the president and his administration and Elon Musk and some of the nonsense that's going on, et cetera, et cetera. I want to do all of that. How can I do it and win? We want corporate America to let us get away with doing it without winning. It's not gonna happen. So if it's not gonna happen, why engage in that fantasy, which is as far from reality as it's going to get?

When you're losing, you are going to suffer if you are black especially. Still racist. Still racist. Say what? Still racist. Okay. Okay. I'm not saying that's not the case. I'm saying you asked me what am I leaning on? And I'm saying to you, I'm leaning on a 42% drop because even when we're successful, we experience racism.

I'm telling you right now, in this business, I've been blessed to be at the top of the heap for quite a while. I experience racism. You think I don't? All the time. Look at some of the things they say about me. You've read them. You've seen it. You think I don't know that that could be some contemporaries in the business, people that's trying to talk behind my back or some people that's going out there front and center

because it's going to get them generate additional clicks to come at me? They could kiss my ass. I know what they're doing. I understand exactly what they're doing. I'm just not surprised by it. And it's just like I said to many people on many occasions, and I'll say this to Black America about white folks all the time. There are some great white folks out there,

there's some evil-ass white folks out there, just like there's great black and evil black folks out there, too. I don't expect white people to have black sensitivity. I don't. I don't expect them to be as sensitive, as heartfelt about our issues and what plagues us as a people and as a community as we feel. I never expect that.

So when somebody sits up there and says to me, well, this white person is this way, that white person is that way, I happen to decipher a difference between a racist and a bigot compared to somebody who's just a bit detached from it all and don't really, really care. They're just living their life, trying to do their thing and trying to live their best life possible. I don't happen to look at everybody the same.

If you're somebody that does, then it's going to be problematic for you, especially when you're in our business. You have to be open-minded enough to separate two. I think that race plays a role in things. There's no reason to run away from it. I wish we would remember that we created it as a construct, that when you cut Stephen A. Smith open and Chris Cuomo open, there's the same shit inside of them.

Genetically, we would be almost indistinguishable from one another. We created race as a separating dynamic. We made it, but that's where we are. I also think MSNBC isn't done making changes, and I think they're gonna make changes because this Donald Trump is Hitler thing isn't working. And I think Joy Reid is a victim of the 42%

more than she is of anything else. The unfair part is she's not the only one who's down and she's not their biggest problem. She was just powerful enough to the Trump folks else, the unfair part is she's not the only one who's down and she's not their biggest problem. She was just powerful enough to the Trump folks for them to celebrate her demise. Megyn Kelly and Joy Reeds are what we call in sports opposite numbers, right? They're number 12 on the two sides of the ball. So one is happy to see the other one go down.

You can look at it that way, or I tend to look at it this way. He's coming after a whole bunch of them. He just targeted Joy Reid first. Yeah. She's the first domino to fall, but there's more coming. Yeah, people keep telling me now, they're calling me. I mean, look, there are many ironies in this business.

I am better connected to the Trump White House than I was to the Biden White House. And I was friends with Bo Biden, may he rest in peace. I had a deep personal affection for former president Biden because of how he treated my family when my father passed. But I am more wired with this White House than I was with that White House. And yet at the same time,

I'm still seen as this kind of like marginal enemy of the state. The left says I've been red-pilled. And let me tell you, people love to say, well, when they both hate you, Steven Aceme, you know you're doing something right. Nope, you know you got no friends is what you know. And it's much easier to ride the wave of one side.

That's how you make it in this business. Unless you can transcend, which I believe you're going to, and I'm very happy to be along for the ride, Stephen A, I will always be wherever you are, whenever you want. And you are always welcome wherever I am. Appreciate it, my man. It's feelings mutual. When we talk about friendship and politics,

it starts and stops right here in terms of this industry. Because I'll be damned if I'm going to be friends with a politician on either side. I can tell you that. I have no interest in it whatsoever. There are people that I am fond of that I would look at that way as a person. But when you're talking about the actual politics,

oh, they are no friends. I'm not oblivious to that reality. They're not my friends, and I don't want them to are no friends. I'm not oblivious to that reality. They're not my friends and I don't want them to be my friends. I want to be able to call it like I see it. I just got to edify myself more so I see more and God help them all once that happens. The blessing of what I've lived through, which you and I talk about this personally all the time,

I do not have any illusions that I have been through anything impressive. You and I have seen so many people battle illness and loss of loved ones and kids. There's so much big shit that can happen that'll just change you forever. And if you can survive it, God bless you. So I get it.

That's the benefit of me having lived in disaster areas for the last 25 years is that I lost my job. It was embarrassing. People came after me and they bothered my family. Yep, yep, yep. Okay. One of the things I learned from it because it was such a mild level of fuckery

compared to what other people deal with is I now help who I wanna help and what I wanna help, how I wanna help it. And I'm not looking, I'm not on the ladder anymore. I don't know where I am, but I'm not on the ladder. I'm not in one of these positions. I'm not someone they're looking at that way. I'm a known guy, but I'm hard to put in a box.

When I care about somebody, I care about them. If they're my friend, they're my friend. If I can do something for them, I'm gonna do something for them. If I'm not supposed to, because, you know, they're on the right and you got to be careful I don't play by those rules anymore. I don't give a shit about the rules of the game. I love my brother I'm always there for him. I consider you a brother from another if I'm there for you I don't care who the competition is. I'm there for you. You're my people and I appreciate you and I love watching the ascendants

I Appreciate you my man. I appreciate you and I love watching the ascendants. I appreciate you my man and I'm gonna keep on ascending. Hopefully I don't let y'all down, do what I can to learn as much as I possibly can. But I'm enjoying this, because my passion for sports has diminished one bit. Shouldn't. My passion to talk politics is elevated exponentially

and I'm real passionate about it. I'm happy I'm doing it. It makes me wake up with a vibe every day with a level of energy that I didn't even know I had before because I feel like I'm back in school and I'm learning so much. And along the way, you're going to make people unhappy. I don't care about that.

Because for me as a nation, we are unhappy and we should be unhappy with the state of affairs, the relationships or lack thereof that we're having with one another. And the last point that I want to make is this. When I think about me and politics, I don't think people understand what I'm trying to say when I bring up sports. I love competition. I'm not talking about me competing with another candidate.

I'm talking about getting us as a country to a place where you don't get to win by engaging in demagoguery towards the other side. I'm talking about wiping away all that nonsense. You're on the right, you're on the left, your ideas against this side's ideas, which ideas are best for America? I believe me, you, Bill O'Reilly, and various others

have a chance, an opportunity, to take this country in a direction where we can get everybody back to focusing on the issues and what's best for America, as opposed to winning or losing elections based on personalities. That's what I'm out to do. And that's what has me excited about being involved in this genre. Finish it with this.

Absolutely. My name is Stephen A. Smith. God damn. I'm on the team, brother. I'm on the team three years from now. We got to figure out how to make some hay, get our deals done, make a little coin. And then in three years, just like you just said, we'll reconsider at that time. I'll reconsider at that time.

We'll think about it. I'll think about it. God, Steve Dane Smith. Woo, I see the poster now. Vote for me. That's right, I'm the president. That's my chief of staff. Y'all gotta get through him to get to me.

That's gonna be hilarious. Could you imagine them having to deal with Steve Dane and Chris Cuomo? Good Lord have mercy. We'll have our own party, the handsome party. The handsome party. Stephen, thank you brother. I'll see you soon and thank you. All right man, take care. Stephen A Smith. That's why I can't wait to be on stage with him and Bill O'Reilly. We're trying this out. Why? Conversation's the cure. You got to be on stage with him and Bill O'Reilly. We're trying this out. Why? Conversations to cure.

You gotta be able to collaborate with different ideas. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean you have to hate each other. And more importantly, it's cheap. You shouldn't be able to hate your way out of a debate. That's why I'm excited about the three Americans going out there into the Netherlands of Long Island to be together up on stage.

It will be very cool. Sunday, March 30th, Westbury, Long Island. Look up the Three Americans Tour Ticketmaster and you can get your tickets. Maybe we'll even meet and greet, take some pictures, and hopefully not a few swings. If it works, we'll wind up coming to where you are as well. Why? We all believe in it. We all believe in the need for conversation is a cure.

You gotta have different ideas and let people work their way through what is best for them. Not with tomfoolery, not with demagoguery, not with twisting shit, and not with just saying the other side is worse. So nothing like this has been done. I'm happy to be a part of it. I don't know how it's going to go, but I know I'll be ready to get after it. Thank you very much for joining me here on The Chris Cuomo Project and joining me at News Nation every weekday night at 8p and 11p Eastern.

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and what we're doing for me and what can actually help you with your own longevity practices. I'll see you soon my friends. The problems are real. Don't duck them. Let's get after it.