The Chris Cuomo Project - CUOMO Exchanges: Howard Dean, Stephanie Grisham, Andrew Yang

Episode Date: November 5, 2022

In this special extra of “The Chris Cuomo Project,” Chris shares some of his favorite interviews from this week’s “CUOMO” exchanges on NewsNation. Howard Dean, former Vermont governor and Democratic National Committee chairman, and Stephanie Grisham, former White House press secretary and communications director, speak with Chris about the forthcoming 2022 midterm elections and a possible 2024 Trump campaign. Andrew Yang, founder of the Forward Party and former Democratic presidential candidate, speaks with Chris about the state of American democracy, the need for more third parties in the U.S., and what matters in the 2022 midterms.  Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, I'm Chris Cuomo, and welcome to a special episode drop of the Chris Cuomo Project. You want to think politics, you need to get insiders. You got to have people who understand the game, because almost sometimes it's like a different language that we're hearing. So, Stephanie Grisham, okay, she was in the Trump White House, and she is now kind of, you know, very much against what former President Trump can stand for. And Howard Dean, governor, presidential candidate, he knows the Democratic Party inside and out. Where are their heads about what matters in this election, what the state of

play means for the fortunes of both of these all important midterms and what happens afterwards. So here's a nice conversation with both of them. Appreciate you being here. Don't forget to subscribe and follow and get that free agent merch. And of course, this was on News Nation. Please watch me every weekday night at 8 p.m. Okay, Eastern.

And we'll put a link with this for you to figure out where the channel is, where you are. Stephanie Grisham, Howard Dean, let's get after it. We don't fake the funk here, and here's the real talk. Over 40 years of age,

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HIMS provides access to clinically proven generic alternatives to Viagra or Cialis or whatever. And it's up to like 95% cheaper. And there are options as low as two bucks a dose. HIMS has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers. So if ED is getting you down, it's time to pick it up. Start your free online visit today at HIMS.com slash CCP. H-I-M-S dot com slash C-C-P. And you will get personalized ED treatment options. HIMS dot com slash C-C-P. Prescriptions, you need an online consultation with a healthcare provider. And they will determine if appropriate.

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And I hope you don't have dinner plans. Stephanie, very, very, very probably. Explain what that means. Oh, he's going to run. That's something I've been saying for a couple of weeks now. Number one, it'll help him with all of his legal troubles, obviously. But number two, I don't think he, his ego can take anybody else leading the Republican Party, most certainly DeSantis. So it's going to get him back into the limelight. It's going to

get him to be able to distract from his legal issues and tell everybody how it's a witch hunt, et cetera. Quick bump question to you, Stephanie. Do you believe that the reason everyone who's close to the former president dismisses DeSantis as a running mate is because, A, they think he's going to run against Trump? B, what is it, the 12th Amendment that, you know, the electors can't vote for both of them. Which one of those two do you think it is? It's A and there's a C. Much of his inner circle does not like DeSantis. In fact, Susie Wiles, who's his main person right now, worked for DeSantis and there's no love lost between Susie and DeSantis. And then also, again, it's Trump's ego. And DeSantis has been doing a very good job of emulating Trump's

policies and talking about Trump's policies and being very MAGA-like without some of the, well, a lot of the legal issues and other, let's say, rumors that are out there about the former president. So, Howard, I talked to Grover Norquist. We go through the numbers. He makes his case. I push back against his case with what the Democrats could say to mitigate attacks and kind of bolster what's good for the Biden administration. But they don't do that. Do you believe that your party is soft on the messaging side and kind of digging their own hole here? Well, first of all, the Grover Norquist economic platform was actually adopted by the former prime minister, very short prime minister of Britain, and the markets tanked, and that's what would happen if he ever adopted his program. It's nonsense. All this tax cuts,

Trump cut tax cuts and ran huge deficits, and here we are. So all that, let's just, that was just Republican talking points. However, your point is absolutely right. My party has always done a lousy job messaging. And here's why. What the Republicans understand about how you win races, and Clausewitz said it first, which is politics is nothing but a substitute for war. Or as he said, politics is war by another means. The Republicans understand that.

They're top down. They understand that. They're top-down. They take orders. They're authoritarian. The RNC is basically run by the president of the United States. That happens to a lesser effect when we're in charge. We think we're so smart. We are pretty smart. The trouble is we have a contest to see who can show how smart everybody is,

and we don't talk to people the way they need to be talked to, which is very directly and plainly and straightforwardly. So I would agree with the point that we just do not do as good a job messaging as we should. Red wave, red ripple, or do you think you keep the Senate? I think we keep the House and the Senate. And I'll tell you why. Please. Yes. Because you had the largest number of people who have ever voted in the midterm elected have already voted. That is true. 41% of people say they're going to vote early or already did vote. It could be even bigger than 2018, which was a record year in and of itself.

Continue. And if you look at the number of Democrats who have cast their ballot, they're very heavily Democratic. So while I think we are being outmessaged by the Republican Party on the economy, which is a good issue for them, whether it's fair or not, we can debate. But it is a good issue for them. I personally think that Biden has been a great and very pleasant surprise for me because I think he's done a lot of the right things. But the messaging, I agree, could be better.

But the fact of the matter is what's driving this is young people and women. And the women have already checked the box. We know they're going to vote in huge numbers. And I think that's going to put Fetterman in. I think that's going to reelect Warnock. I'm pretty sure Sherry Beasley is going to win in North Carolina. And I think Ryan's going to win in Ohio. And then we've got the other possibilities of Val Demings in Florida. Hold on, Let's not bite off too much because there are a lot of these things to counter. And I can see Stephanie has like this long list of counterpoints. She's going to get her chance. We have two blocks, so we have plenty of time. One of the beautiful things about how we set up this show is to talk about it.

Well, hold on, Howard. Let me get her back in. Give Stephanie her chance and I'll shut up. I mean, you just said like a hundred things. And I saw Stephanie. She was like, I got to say this. I got to say that. I got to.

So his idea, and I will say just, you know, as point of transparency, Stephanie is proof that not everybody around the former president keeps marching to the drum. You know, she obviously claimed her own independence. So the idea that we have it wrong, everybody who's looking at the polls, and there are going to be a lot of people who vote and the Democrats actually keep it. Do you think that there is a very, very, very probably to that, Stephanie? I would agree. I think Ryan keeps it in Ohio, but I disagree. And I don't say this, that I want this to happen, but I do believe that Walker will win.

I do kind of believe that Oz will win. So I'm going to disagree there. What I will agree with is that the Dems have a real messaging problem. It's been very frustrating, which sounds funny, I know, because I'm a Republican. But there has been such low-hanging fruit with a lot of these candidates that I think could have been beaten, and I just don't think it's going to happen. What I'll be watching for, actually, is the downed ballot races, though. We're talking governors and secretaries of state at the state level, because I think that's what's going to be a real boon and a real boost to Trump potentially announcing

his next presidential. These are the people, as we know, who can say, yes, the votes are valid in each state. So that's what I'll be watching for, actually, more than congressional races. But I will tell you all this. If I lived in Pennsylvania, I would have already cast my vote for John Fetterman for many reasons. What? Now, if you're saying, well, what? Why are you surprised? Don't fake the funk. Oprah's a Democrat, right? Oprah catapulted Dr. Oz to TV fame. He was one of her talk show prodigies, remember? I mean, they were thick as thieves. So that's interesting. Let's bring back Stephanie

and the governor and talk about what this means. Howard, how big a deal is this for John Fetterman? means. Howard, how big a deal is this for John Fetterman? It helps. I think most endorsements don't mean much. Hers does. And I think there are people who may be thinking about going over to the other side that are going to now think twice. The thing I think does more is gets people out to vote. When Oprah says, essentially, what she said, the hidden message was, you got to vote. That's going to make a difference, I think. And it'll help Fetterman. Which voters matter most, Howard, in that race and for Democrats? Is it going to be Black women again who are 35 to 55? Black women always matter.

They are probably our most important and reliable constituency group. Which makes it surprising that you guys don't do more for them when you're in power. Well, Biden has actually put more black and people of color and women in positions of power than Obama did. So I'm talking about in their own families and what kinds of opportunities are done

and how their rights are secured. I'm talking about cabinet officials. I'm talking about senior people in the cabinet. First black secretary. I mean, that is a nonsensical statement. You've got to look at the numbers before you say something like that. No, no, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

You are valuing cabinet positions. I'm talking about real people and their lives and the issues that matter to them. You know, the reason you're going to get beat over the head with crime, that's not fair. It's not a national government issue. But in these communities, they've been suffering. And it's not just that black people only live in bad areas, but those areas have wanted more help. And local leadership is often Democrat. I think it's something you guys hang around your neck, no? I think it's something that Republicans have done a good job hanging around our neck. The fact is there is no crime epidemic. And the biggest

statistics for rising in crime are in states governed by Republicans. That's the fact. They do have crime issues. Look, crime comes up every year, Chris, because it's a racist trope, and they could do stuff like putting ads about Mandela Barnes and darken his skin and stuff like that. That's right out of the Republican playbook. Racism is a big factor in Republican campaigns, and it always has been. Well, but race is big everywhere all the time. It's just about how it's used and whether it's about a point of progress. And crime is up, Howard. It's up, okay? I'm not saying it's an epidemic. I don't know what the word means in this context, but it's up. Stephanie, let me bring in the power of Oz and what this means for him having Oprah versus the negative energy

generated by what I'm about to play for you from The View. I read a poll just yesterday that white Republican suburban women are now going to vote Republican. Why? It's almost like roaches voting for Raid, right? You know, Sonny, you sat at the table many times on The View. Impact of that statement?

I think it was just offensive. You know, she often talks about race on the show. And while I know she was quoting a poll saying white suburban women, I just I found it ironic that she kind of went after white suburban women. I found it ironic that she kind of went after white suburban women. And you hear people talk about the elitist Democrats and their talking points. I think this was exactly it. I am a woman living in the Midwest, a Republican woman in the Midwest who doesn't want many Republicans to win. And I was offended by what Sonny said. You can't talk down to people like that. You can't act as if people aren't smart enough to think about things themselves.

So also Whoopi Goldberg is always saying how polls don't matter, polls don't matter. I don't know if she weighed in on that. But I'm surprised that ABC hasn't actually had Sonny apologize for that. It was wildly offensive. Anything to say on that, Howard, or should I move on? A, I don't know who she is, and B, I agree with ridiculous, a ridiculous thing to say, and it was offensive. I mean, you can't compare anybody to a roach, no matter what their color there is. I thought it was ridiculous. But I don't watch the show, and I have no idea how many people

do. You're not even on Twitter. Stephanie. I got off Twitter because of our friend Elon. I know. We're going to talk about that. Stephanie, let's give people a little inside scoop. You are very familiar with politics in Arizona. And even though you are a Republican, you have concerns about Fincham, who's running for Secretary of State there, and Carrie Lake, of course. Is this about their perception being skewed for politics, making them seem extreme? What do you know about these two people? Well, I worked with Mark Fincham when I worked in the House for the Republicans in Arizona, and then I worked with Carrie Lake in her capacity as a Fox reporter, local Fox reporter in Arizona. She also went to the White House, I have to say,

to interview me when I worked for Melania Trump. They're very extreme. And, you know, I have to say, to interview me when I worked for Melania Trump, they're very extreme. And, you know, I have spoken out quite a bit about this. I, much like Liz Cheney, I'm hoping that Katie Hobbs will win the governor's seat. And she's a Democrat. Mark Fincham, I think, will do anything he can to recall the election for Trump. And then more importantly, I think, looking to the future, both Kerry and Mark will do anything Trump says. And that means not certifying elections. Now, I'm not a lawyer. I don't know what that means. But I think it's really, really important that people understand that these people are only going to march to Trump's drum. They're not going to march to the citizens of Arizona's drum.

So that's kind of what I've got there. Howard, last point to you. That's kind of what I've got there. Howard, last point to you. You know, I feel that people in your party or aspects of your party have been misplaying the free speech issue in this country right now and pushing for censorship and canceling. I think it's a mistake. But then Elon Musk kind of comes in and gives you guys a gift on Twitter. You left.

What do you think Musk means to the dialogue and motivated your move to get off his platform? Well, what motivated my move to get out of his platform? I think he's a nut. I mean, he's a genius, but he's a nut. You know, I'm not going to be on a platform where the N-word is used 500 times, which it was yesterday on Twitter because of Musk's arrival at the... You know, the thing that's killing Musk is not people like me getting off Twitter. The thing that's killing Musk is General Motors getting off Twitter and a bunch of other— There's another one.

Yeah, because nobody—look, hate speech is not playing. This is why I think we're going to do better than people think, than pollsters think, and it's why I actually welcomed Trump to the 2024 race. I warned the Democratic Party about Trump before they would listen to that and said, this guy can win and you better watch out. Today, I'm going to tell you that he's the best candidate we could possibly run against. He's exhausting. People know he's full of it. But I do worry a lot about Arizona. That's the one state where we could lose. And I think the idea of losing to those two would be terribly dangerous. We could probably survive an election without winning Arizona nationally. But what it would do to democracy around the country would be disastrous.

And the kind of stuff that would happen in Arizona if those two were to be running the state would be a really bad example for what could happen elsewhere. The good news is we'll know a little bit on Tuesday and more probably the following Tuesday because it's going to take time to count. There are going to be close races and that's the most pivotal time for us to be fighting for reasonableness because that's when the game's really going to be afoot. And then I would love to have you both together,

separately, come back, be part of the family and talk about these things because you guys know the game inside and out and you're helpful to the audience. Stephanie, Howard, thank you both. Be well and I'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Thanks. We don't fake the funk here. And here's the real talk. Over 40 years of age, 52 percent of us experience some kind of ED between the ages of 40

and 70. I know it's taboo, it's embarrassing, but it shouldn't be. Thankfully, we now have HIMS, and it's changing the vibe by providing affordable access to ED treatment, and it's all online. HIMS is changing men's health care. Why? Because it's giving you access to affordable and discreet sexual health treatments. And you do it right from your couch. HIMS provides access to clinically proven generic alternatives to Viagra or Cialis or whatever. And it's up to like 95% cheaper.

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You see the website. You'll get details and important safety information. You're going to need a subscription. It's required. Plus, the price is going to vary based on product and subscription plan. The Chris Cuomo Project is supported by Cozy Earth. Why? Because I like their sheets. That's why. A lot of people don't get a good night's sleep for a lot of reasons. One of the ones that you can control is bedding. One out of three of us report being sleep deprived. Okay, well, what is it?

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What did you make of the president's speech? It was genuine. I've been around Joe, and he does really feel and believe that democracy is being contested. But what you and I discussed is that Democrats have supported and put millions of dollars behind election-denying extremists like Joe Gibbs in Michigan. behind election-denying extremists like Joe Gibbs in Michigan. And that one was particularly painful for folks like me to see because Peter Meyer, who was the incumbent, voted to impeach Trump at great personal cost,

had death threats the same way as Raffensperger did in Georgia. And the Democrats, instead of having his back or championing him, spent millions of dollars on an extremist because they thought he'd be easier to defeat in the general. And so if that extremist ends up winning, then it makes Joe's speech seem really weird if you spent millions of dollars promoting a guy that you then cast as an existential threat to democracy. The state of play is, yeah,

but they're worse. Now, where do you think that constant reductive comparison is getting us? Now, where do you think that constant reductive comparison is getting us? Oh, it's leading to polarization and agitation, eventually violence. And we saw that with the attack on Paul Pelosi, which seems like it was politically motivated. And that became a political football in what, 12, 18 hours after the fact, where all of a sudden you had people spitting out different versions of what happened. This stat that's on the screen right now for the folks at home, I've never seen anything like this before, where both sides agree that something is a real problem, other than like spending. You know what I mean? Like this is a real problem. There is a threat to democracy,

and they both point at the other side. What does that tell you? Well, what it tells you is that someone's going to be very upset no matter what happens next Tuesday. And this polarization is exactly why I started the Forward Party is because if you imagine a sports league where there are just two teams, how do the fan bases feel about each other over time? You know, like you start thinking if the other team wins, it's the end of the world. And at this point, 80% of Democrats and Republicans

apparently have that feeling. So you want to have a system where there are more than two sides. We're suggesting, look, a third party that's in the middle and positive and unifying is the first step. I personally think that we should have probably more like four or five parties. The Democratic Party should be two parties. Republican Party should be two parties. Everyone knows what I'm talking about. What am I talking about those things. But it should start with hopefully a third party to take some of the fever and the venom out. One more systemic change, because I think that matters, and then I have an economics couple of questions for you. Systemic change, where does it say that the parties get to control primaries? It's not in the Constitution. It's not our election law.

It's culture, right? Yeah, it's made up. If you look at the Constitution, not a word about political parties. George Washington was famously against political parties. Madison, Adams, the same thing. And so this modern system came about in 1860 when the Republicans came up.

And what people generally don't realize is that Abraham Lincoln was a third-party candidate. He won with 39% of the vote. So we've had this two-party system in place since then, but the polarization we're seeing is literally at multi-generational highs that haven't been seen since the Civil War, where those numbers you just showed are out of whack.

I mean, if you were to rewind, and you and I are both old enough to remember this, it was not like this even 12, 14 years ago. It's always been hot. It just wasn't only hot. And especially once you got through with the political phase and they were governing, you know, you'd have my friend on the left, my friend on the left. They would hang out with each other. That's right.

And now it's like. You know that they'd literally be like arguing and then they'd be drinking it up and making deals afterwards. I remember my father having Ralph Marino, may they both rest in peace, the Republican and a real Republican, tough guy, head of the Senate in New York State over to the executive mansion. They were fighting about the budget and they were fighting. They ate. They had a couple of glasses of wine. They obviously had an ethnic bond. They did not agree, but they talked and they figured out what needed to be done.

I don't even think that that—I think you'd get killed if you do that today. They don't talk to each other. They don't have drinks afterwards. A lot of people who enter Congress, they might not even know someone on the other side of the aisle at this point. They're lucky if they know their own people and their own party. Everybody's so out for their own interests. So that takes us to what happens in the midterms. Every indication says these races are going to be tight, but the economy is on everybody's mind.

You say the Democrats made a mistake in policy and also in messaging. What was it? The child tax credit lifted millions of American families out of poverty and was widely popular in every state. There was a swing senator's team I spoke to who were clamoring for the child tax credit to stay around because their numbers show that that would actually be the difference maker for their senator's race. And this is, by the way, one of the very, very, very close races that everyone's looking at right now. I'm sure their office was not alone. If the child tax credit were in place, I think the Democrats would have a much, much stronger argument when it comes to

inflation, the economy, which is still issue number one. Democrats say, yeah, but we couldn't do it alone. We don't have the numbers to have pushed it through ourselves. So you got to blame the other side. There were at least a couple of Republican senators who were open to a version of it. I know this because I was working on the child tax credit in real time. This is something that 174 economists endorsed. It should be bipartisan or nonpartisan. And that's one reason why some Republican senators are for it, because they're very pro-family. And the child tax credit is great for families. So do you believe that economics or the economy dictates the outcome of these midterms and that means both houses go red? I think it's the number one issue.

So the top three issues for Republican-leaning voters are inflation slash the economy, crime, and immigration. And then for Democrats, it's abortion, democracy, which is one reason I think that we saw the speech we saw tonight. Though most of it is just because that's what the president actually thinks and feels. And then the third is health care. And so if you look at the different issues, you have to favor the Republicans because I think their winning issues are top of mind for more Americans. Now, do you think that that is horrible? My therapist says it's the only real four-letter word.

When you look at the economy and the state of it and what really causes inflation and how many jobs you have and all the different indicators, do you believe that it is fair to say that President Biden tanked the economy? Well, I think that we project all sorts of powers and abilities onto our political leaders that may or may not be fair, to your point. One very fair argument towards Republicans is, hey, what's your actual plan, aside from maybe cutting taxes, which may or may not be the recipe right now? We spent trillions of dollars on COVID recovery. It preserved a lot of jobs. A lot of that money went to corporates as well as state and local governments. It did end up juicing inflation.

So some of that was bipartisan. The CARES Act was passed while Trump was still president. I think that it's holding them to a very, very tough standard to say that all of this is the Biden administration's fault. But that's the nature of the game, brother. Well, you know, that's- If it happens on your watch. That's politics in a polarized country. I mean, it's a very, very easy narrative where people can be like, look, it's Biden's fault. It's the Dems' fault.

That's why we need more parties that motivate the majority that doesn I mean, it's a very, very easy narrative where people can be like, look, it's Biden's fault, it's the Dems' fault. That's why we need more parties that motivate the majority that doesn't like what it's seeing to become part of the process of, again, in a real way. That's what you're trying to do with the forward party. And I love our discussions and I want to keep the conversation going because I believe I've got an audience

that wants to hear it. Yeah, man, let's give free agents a place to go as opposed to just watching these two parties lose their minds. Well said, Brother Yang. Thank you for joining us. I'll see you again soon. Smart guy who wants to make a difference. He is a free agent. And so are you. So get the merch. The money's going to go in a kitty and we're going to crowdsource contributions together. All right. I already made the first decision for us with MD Motivator. That came out of my pocket. So buy the stuff.

They're great things there. We're going to be adding more merch there and it's going to go to something that we can do together. All right. I appreciate you very much. I'm on eight o'clock p.m. in the East News Nation every weekday night. Appreciate you giving us a chance and love to see you here. I'll see you next time.