The Chris Cuomo Project - CUOMO Exchanges: James Carville, Ray Kelly, Kara Swisher

Episode Date: October 29, 2022

In this special extra of “The Chris Cuomo Project,” Chris shares some of his favorite interviews from this week’s “CUOMO” exchanges on NewsNation. James Carville, political consultant and strategist, speaks with Chris about the Democratic Party’s messaging ahead of November’s midterm elections. Ray Kelly, former New York City Police Commissioner, joins Chris to discuss concerns over the perceived rise in crime throughout America. Kara Swisher, journalist and host of the “On with Kara Swisher” podcast, discusses the violent attack on Nancy Pelosi’s husband, Elon Musk’s purchase of Twitter, and how her own experience of recovering from a stroke compares to that of John Fetterman, Democratic candidate for Senate in Pennsylvania.  Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody, and welcome to a special episode of the Chris Cuomo Project. James Carville, Bill Clinton's star, his guru, his big line, why are we going to win? Because it's the economy, stupid. Well, here's a great interview with him about whether a statement now means let's hope they're stupid about the economy. What is the real picture with the economy, and should it beat the Democrats, or are they beating themselves? James Carville. It's great to have you. Thank you very much for taking the time and the opportunity. I've missed you. I'm glad to be back on your show, Chris.

So will the economy beat the Democrats and should it? Well, I don't know. I mean, we have to have the election. But let's point out a few things. As you know, gas prices. I was in upstate New York and they were talking about, you know, gas prices. And somebody says, how many people, you know, go to, I was in upstate New York, and they were talking about, you know, gas prices. And somebody says, how many people you know go to Canada to get gas cheaper? None, because it's a world market. That doesn't help a lot.

Look at energy company profits. They're the highest they've ever been. You can't tell me that these big oil companies are not using this to jack up prices. So, yes, there are things you can do. The main thing that I wish Democrats would focus on is Kevin McCarthy, the presumptive House speaker, says that if we're elected, we will shut the government down to force cuts in Social Security and Medicare. Not only do you not need cuts in Social Security, you need COLAs. How can seniors on fixed income deal with this by cutting their Social Security as opposed to doing what they should do is due to cost of living adjustments. So, James. It's a built-in to the bill. So, go ahead.

I'm sorry. Are you falling prey to the, okay, what happened on the Democrats' watch is bad, but they'll be even worse? Well, I can't tell you that this inflation is good, but I'm telling you that. But are you to blame for it? People can do things. Should you have to own it? How can I be to blame for something that's going on all over the world? The inflation in the United States is not any worse than it is anywhere else. Now, that's not a very good excuse. But it was better before you.

And you haven't done a good job of arguing that point. I'm saying that people need tools to deal with this. They could do a windfall profits tax and return some of it to gas consumers. They could do Social Security cost of living adjustments as opposed to forcing a government shutdown which would wreck the entire economy in order to just crush seniors that don't have fixed income. You can't deny that inflation is out there. Of course it's out there. But do you think your party is making the case? Do you think your party is making the case well enough to save a majority on either side?

I don't think we make it. I do not think we make it in the case on how dangerous it is to shut the government down in order to force people on a fixed income to lead a lesser life. I think we should be talking about that day in and day out in every minute of every hour until now in election day. But isn't that shifting? Isn't that shifting? Look, I don't, I'm not saying that entitlements don't matter. And I'm not saying that that's not a protection that we need now more than ever going on with what's going on with the economy. But they're going to hit you with what they've been hitting you with, which is it's worse under your watch. It's the economy, stupid. And you screwed it up. It was better under Trump. But if you just say, well, they're going to do worse things. Do you win?

Well, first of all, you tell people we actually have a plan to give you tools to deal with this. They want to make it worse. It's bad enough. And they want to make it a lot worse for you. And when people were in this kind of situation, Chris, they said, well, I'll just vote against the incumbent party because what do I have to lose? Well, you actually have a lot to lose. And we're in a, and by the way, all the economic news, as you quite correctly pointed out,

we have growth in this economy. I don't know, 9 million jobs been created under Biden. Over 10. I mean, it's not all bad, but that's not the argument you make. You acknowledge that inflation is there and you say, we're trying to give you tools to deal with it.

And I think that is the most effective argument that you have. Are they making the effective argument? No. Why not? I don't know. Because, you know, from where I sit, the message looks constipated to me.

Back in April of 2021, I wrote a piece in the Wall Street Journal to say that the Democrats needed to get ahead of the crime mission and start taking ownership of it. Of course, they said, well, we can't do that. Then I said, we need to take ownership of this issue about them shutting down the government to cut Social Security and Medicare. about them shutting down the government to cut Social Security and Medicare. I don't know. I think the pronoun people block any kind of sensible campaign messaging that exists, but that's a theory of mine. What do you think about all of those people signing on to a letter telling Random House to not publish Justice Colony Barrett's book?

I do not believe in that. I've never believed in that. Your party does. I bought guests from every—no,'ve never believed in that your party does i bought guests from every but i don't know i don't know my party does some people in the party believe that let's say there's 250 authors are hardly comprised the entire democratic party but don't you have to i don't i don't i don't know if i have to own them but but I'm just, you asked me. Yeah. I've had conservative, very conservative speakers come to my classes, and I taught in higher ed for 16 years. I think if Antarctica wants to enter the flower show, let them in. They're going to lose.

And if I don't trust my students enough that I can't expose them to different ideas, and some ideas I think are pretty reprehensible, then what kind of teacher I am, what kind of mentor am I, or anything else? I mean, I just, I am a, in my generation of Democrats, we've always been, you know, I believe the Nazis should march in Skokie. That'd make me a Nazi. And I think the ACLU did the right thing by defending that. I do not believe in speech police at all. And I think that is an unfortunate thing that some people on the modern left don't believe in free speech. I think it's very, very unfortunate.

I do not agree with it. I never did and I never will. Well, here's my dime prediction. After these midterms, I think you're going to hear a on your door and say, hey, James, can we get you back in the game? Because the party did a lot better when we were promoting the ideas that you're putting out there right now. I appreciate you being on, brother, and I look forward to doing it again. Well, thank you for the kind words. We'll come back for sure. Thank you very much. Love it. We don't fake the funk here.

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and they will determine if appropriate. Restrictions apply. You see the website. You'll get details and important safety information. You're going to need a subscription. It's required. Plus, price is going to vary based on product and subscription plan. Crime. Crime is everywhere. Crime is terrible. Crime is up so much. In the big cities, you can't even go in New York City. You go on the subway, something's going to eat you. Crime is up. True. Is it up everywhere and in all the ways that is being suggested? Or is this about fear as much as it is about an increase in crime, and that is increasing your fear to get you to vote a certain way. Who better to discuss the realities than former commissioner of the NYPD,

New York City's finest, Ray Kelly. It's great to have you, Commissioner. Thank you so much. Appreciate you. Good to be with you, Chris. Looking good as always. So let's talk about the facts. I got some graphs up here of a seven city composite. The homicide rate is down, but other key crime indicators, robbery, assault, car theft are up. What does that tell you about what the reality is? Well, I think it does show the reality. Here in New York City, and this is a good thing, of course, murders are down, shootings are down. But every other crime, every other felony category, and what we call the index crimes, they're up and up significantly. Robbery up 40 percent. The grand loss of the auto up 40 percent. In New York,

all the numbers are big. So when we're talking about a percentage increase like that, that's a significant number. Well, let's give us some perspective on it because you know this stuff so well, but to the rest of us, wait, so murder's coming down, but all these other crimes are up so much. How do those two things go together? We're not certain why murder is down. This is actually a phenomenon from this year. It is still above what it was in 2019, the last full year before the pandemic. But there are other aspects to this. Obviously, the transit situation is critical in New York.

People are not riding the subway. We've had 25 people pushed onto the tracks in New York. People are not riding the subway. We've had 25 people pushed onto the tracks in New York City this year. We've had nine murders in the transit system. And ridership is basically half of what it was before the pandemic. So yeah, these numbers are significant. And yes, at the same time, it's good that murders and shootings are down and certainly going in the right direction. So we're not sure why they're going down. Why do you think the other ones are going up? Well, I think, you know, to get the whole picture, you kind of have to go back to the death of George Floyd. There was a sea change in law enforcement

after that. There was a, what I would say is an overreaction to that. It brought about a lot of restrictions, a lot of laws, rules, regulations that look to restrict the police. The police see themselves now as being at risk. They're not doing any proactive policing, as I recall. They're doing reactive policing. So we don't see that. We don't see them searching out crimes. They're concerned about their career. They're concerned about the well-being of their family. So I think that is a very critical part. Now, there are other aspects to this. I think, you know, George Soros and his very clever plot to install district attorneys that think like he does. Here in New York, we have a bail law controversy. New York is the only state that doesn't allow judges

to make a determination of dangerousness on people who appear before them. That's why you get this revolving door situation in New York. People are arrested day after day after day. in New York. People are arrested day after day after day. Basically, judges cannot look at their previous record. So, as I said, I think the most important aspect to this is the demonization of police. They're not doing what they did a few years ago because quite frankly, they don't see it in their interest to do it. So what's the fix?

Well, the other thing I've been preaching, we have to put back the anti-crime unit, civilian closed units. People are afraid of being robbed or being mugged. The crimes that I mentioned, robbery, grandiosity, they're mugging crimes. We need those plainclothes police officers. The perpetrators are not looking over their shoulder because they know they don't have to look over their shoulder. They know the police are not out there looking for them. I also think that stop question and frisk is a legitimate tool

that should be in every police officer's toolbox. But you know that there was a lot of litigation about that, that it was being abused and that they were disproportionately stopping young black men. Well, you know, we could talk about this for a long time. It was only one case and it was one judge. There was no jury. I can tell you that even at our highest point, it only amounted to one stop a week for a patrol officer and one pat down every two weeks for a patrol officer. And the number that we were doing was less than what the Philadelphia Police Department agreed to with the Justice Department.

So there's a lot of things to talk about there in terms of stop question and frisk. There is a monitor in place here in New York. Every cop is wearing a camera now, a different situation than before the trial. I think it's a great value. Do you think the cameras on cops is a good idea? I think it's the reality. I think that's it. I think it can discourage cops from doing certain things. All in all, you're going to have to go along with it. It's never going to be reversed. But I think there's no question about it that it causes some police officers to hesitate. It's only common sense that they hesitate to engage in a certain situation where they know all of their actions are going to be filmed.

That can work two ways, though, right? No other public servant has the required to wear a camera. Right, but no other public servant can kill you either, you know what I mean? So it can work both ways. I think it could help officers also, right? I mean, people make a false claim. They claim that use of force. You're going to see what it was and what it wasn't. Yeah, I think you're right. But I think police have a certain leeriness about cameras and what they can show. We've seen lots of incidents where people with their own cameras have cut off part of the video to show the cops acting inappropriately.

So, you know, that's the real world. That's what we're dealing with. Cameras are here to stay. If you like it or not, that's it. They're going to have it. Commissioner Kelly, I appreciate the perspective. Thank you for helping us understand what it is and why it is. You're always welcome on the show. I wish you well. Thank you, Chris. Good to be with you. Look, no shame in my game.

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He certainly looked better in his interviews than he did in that debate. Who do we talk to? How about Kara Swisher? Ho, ho, ho, you know her. Big name in the podcast space. And Elon Musk finally buying Twitter. He says the deal is done. Is it?

And will he make it better or worse? He's saying he wants to get away from the fringes. He doesn't want it to be a free-for-all. Is that true? Kara Swisher. Hello. It's good to see you. Good to see you.

Thank you for having me on. I like your new house. I appreciate you. I like your new house. Right? We're trying. We're trying. We spruced it up for you.

First to something that hit your heart as well as your head. You know Nancy Pelosi. I do. You know the house. She's know Nancy Pelosi. I do. You know the House. She's my congresswoman. What does it mean that this happened and how it's being reacted to? Well, you know, it's frightening. She lives in a very safe part of San Francisco.

I know they're trying to make it out to be a crime thing. No, this is a guy who seemed to be radicalized, including online. He had some crazy stuff online. It's frightening. It's frightening because what happens is, you know, I talk about hate speech all the time online. Everyone's like, oh, it doesn't make a difference if they're just words. But it actually, it just takes one person to jump off that page into action, just like Pizzagate, just like anything else. And so you have to be very careful about what you say online because it can incite people, especially people who have some possible mental issues or

just get down that road of radicalization that they can't come back from. Does anything change other than some of those people becoming poll watchers? You think anything gets better? No, I mean, you just talked about it. It's true. What is the point of being that way when people are trying to vote? But it is. It's trying to intimidate. And it's because they get this idea through this information system that's so noisy and so full of misinformation that they think things are actually at risk, right? I think in their heads they do think this is the right thing. Of course, violence is never the right thing.

And so we have to figure out how we can have a better quality of discussion online and off so you don't have these situations where people do crazy acts like this, crazy violent acts. Violence is never right. It's true. But it is really not true here. Let's be honest. We are a violent people. We are. We're a violent culture.

We celebrate violence in pretty much all its forms. Sure. We just used to have leaders that tried to keep us from our most base tendencies. That's correct. And we don't now. They foment it. And that takes us to big story. Elon Musk did buy Twitter. Got to tell you, one of the reasons that you're better than me, I didn't think this was going to happen. Yes. But it did. He fired executives and almost

immediately, not at his instigation. No. But waves of N-word, a lot of hate, a lot of Pepe the Frog, a lot of N-word. Yeah, they're celebrating. a lot of flash mobs, as you call them, going after people specifically on the left. Is this just a tweak, or do you think this is what Musk wants Twitter to be? Well, he wants it to be, you know, I'm not clear what he wants it to be. He just says free speech as if it matters. And of course, the next minute he said content moderation council, right? And so he's just right where Mark Zuckerberg was many years ago, except it took Mark several years to put together an oversight board that is still ineffective, by the way. And so I don't know what it means, a board means. So he's going to have to moderate something because if you're going to create a business, and he spent a lot of money on this

business paying three times more than it's worth. You think of that, you think it's 3x? Oh, most people do. I'm not, I'm not fresh. Why do you think he did that? Because the money- He had to. He signed a contract when it... He signed a contract. He overpaid for it, but not by much. And then the market crashed. And so with leaders like Facebook or Meta and Google Alphabet declining so precipitously, Meta's down 80%.

That'll make it harder to police what happens on the platform. That's correct. Because you need the use. You need the clickbait. Well, they never were very good at it. Twitter wasn't very good at it because they didn't have as much money as the others. And the others were struggling. But the advertising market, the bottom has fallen out of the digital advertising market, as you could see from this week's results. And Twitter was at the bottom of the group. I mean, it's not like they were the

strong player here. They never were profitable. So let's talk, Cara, about what is the it. It has always been hard. What do you think the right balance is, if at all, between allowing free speech on these platforms and policing what is said? Well, you know, the word free speech has sort of become like fake news. It's sort of this word that's sort of a catch-all. And free speech is not really the point. These are private companies, and they can do any edit. Like, you can do whatever you want here, and nobody screams, ah, I'm not allowed on Chris Cuomo's show. It's free speech. Like, I should be able to. And so we mistake what is a private company for a digital public square. It is not that. And that's

the problem, is everyone feels like it's theirs to own. They feel like it's a newspaper. Yes, but you can't get in any newspaper, can you? Can you show up and be in a newspaper? And they have rules about what words they allow and what language in terms of use. And you believe we need more of that here. I do, because I think the ones that are succeeding, guess who's eating everybody's lunch? TikTok. Let's leave aside the Chinese government influence there, which is still, our government's trying to figure that out and figure out ways to protect American citizens from that.

But they're doing really well, and they're eating up all the advertising money because it's a pleasant place to be because you don't feel like you're at a party and someone comes and vomits on your shoes at all the time. So what's the balance between allowing people to say things that you may not like? Why should you have to listen to any of that?

I mean, free speech goes, free hearing is too. Why should I listen to someone saying? But isn't that your choice as opposed to Twitter's? Yes, but Twitter's designed so it's incoming. It's never been edited out of yours. Now, Elon's talked about filter versions of it, and I don't know what that means. Does it mean I'll take the high racism one

and the low racism one? I don't know what it means. Well, on my feed, there's almost always a caution for me that the following replies contain language that may be, you know, and it's almost always on my feed. But is that okay? Look, here's my concern about it. And I felt like this with Kanye West. I feel like this about our, yay. I feel like this about the letter that was sent on Amy Coney Barrett's, the Supreme Court justice. Let the best idea win. When you put down an idea, you give it power, especially now,

because you can't censor anything anyway. That book's going to come out, maybe not from Penguin, but it's going to get out. But it's not about power. It's able to say terrible things about people and dunk on them. That's not really power. But where's the line? Because I'm saying like Amy Coney Barrett, we don't know that she's going to write a book where she's like, you know, drop an ugly language. It's an idea that people find offensive. And it's also an idea that was motivated by a majority of the Supreme Court of the United States. If that's something that you can censor, isn't that too far? Yes, but it's a private company. The First Amendment, no, people really need to read it because it says the government cannot censor. And prior restraints are only about government.

Correct. It's all about government. A private company can do whatever it pleases and whenever it wants. And so the question is, what do you want to create? So if he wants to create a free-for-all, he can do that, but he's not going to sell a lot of advertising, and then it's going to go away. And so you have to decide what you want to do. Why would people be anywhere that's not fun to be at? It's not just fun, but interesting. He's trying to create this fun space.

I don't think it's, you know, there was one, someone from Silicon Valley, he's like, he's going to make it more fun. I said, for whom? Because for some people, it's not fun at all. And so that's the thing. But isn't that going to be on us? You and I will choose whether or not Twitter's the right platform for us. That's correct. Because of what's going on there.

If it becomes a cesspool, you're going to come off of it. Because one person's cesspool is another person's swimming pool. Sure, but you can't sell advertising. I mean, let me get to the business. This has never been a good business. And so the stock has been a terrible stock to own, except for the people who got in on the Elon Musk price. That's been great for shareholders because he overpaid for it so badly.

And so the question is, can you create a place where people like to be and spend time so you can have a business of it, whether you're going to sell subscriptions? You're not going to buy a subscription to a place where people call you names. That's not going to, why would you do that unless you have a certain proclivity? And that's fine. It's a free country to do things like that. But you want to sell a product that people are delighted and love. If you don't do that, if he doesn't do that, he's going to lose a lot of money. Delighted and love does not apply to a lot of social media, certainly Twitter.

It could, though. People have a very good time on TikTok. People have a very good time. A lot of younger people there. On Instagram, there's lots of problems at each place, but they're enjoyable to use in some fashion. Or they can be. The best thing he's got going for him is every survey you see, all the market research, the majority of this country does not identify as fringe and does not like it. So that's the upside.

The majority wants better. It should be a great experience. And by the way, young people, I was interesting because young people are not on this platform. It really is old people yelling at each other at this point. It's a scream fest. And so the question is, what is going to be good to attract a younger audience? Not that it has to just be a young audience, but I talked to my son

today who knows Elon and it's like, what's happening to him? Why is he doing all this stuff? You know, he's a meme lord and he's sort of taken it to the extreme. Sometimes, sometimes he doesn't. And I said, what would get, what would it take to get you on Twitter? And he said, nothing, absolutely nothing. It's not for them. It's not for me. And so that's a problem. It's a business.

Let me forget it's a business, not a social cause. So what's happening there is reflecting what's happening everywhere, right? You had a take on the Senate candidate from Pennsylvania, John Fetterman. Yes. He gets interviewed by NBC. The reporter says, I got to tell you, the guy was struggling. Yeah. You say, not with me. Not with me. Then he does the debate. He struggled in the debate. And he is terrible. Yes, terrible. Hard to watch. Yes, very. Do you believe that now you understand why that reporter felt the way she did? Yes, sure. Yes. Because you said maybe she's just not good at small talk, which wasn't exactly fair to her.

No, that wasn't fair. You're right. That's correct. But here's the problem. He is, I had a stroke, so I had some experience with what was happening to him. When you're in high stress situations, you lose your words. You just do. It took me a year to be fine. And he was stressful.

I mean, I've seen it. I watched him. I was like, oh, I remember that. And anyone who's had a stroke, now, not everybody recovers from a stroke, by the way. Many people don't. But he's younger. He's getting good care. We'll see what happens. My experience with him, no problem. He was using the closed captioning, which he needs, which he desperately needs. He cognitively answered every question. There was no question he didn't understand. There was no question that he had to say what, what, what to. He stumbled over a few

words. We didn't take any of it out because we wanted people to see that. And I didn't have a problem with him. But you think he can do the job? Absolutely. I think he can. I mean, I think he should release his medical records now only because it's become such an issue. Because it's, you know, Republicans are now using it, mocking people with disabilities. Well, saying that he didn't do well in that debate and he can't do the job, he should be disqualified. I don't think it's mocking people with disabilities. I saw some of the memes. But again, that goes to a place.

I'm talking about Rona McDaniel, who was making fun of people. Yes, but what I'm saying is that's the ugliness of politics. Yeah. Fetterman needs to own this. Yes. Because the onus is on him to show he's better. He's given a dozen interviews, or whatever, a lot of interviews. And then he's fine. Yeah, he's doing better in the interviews.

Here's why. Let me just say, for someone who's in a stroke, when you're stressed and upset. Yes. I've had a cold. You can hear it. I was really tired when I was traveling. I literally, 11 years after my stroke, I was wandering the hotel halls because I couldn't remember my room number for a second. Yeah. And Cara, I can barely keep up with you. Okay. All right. You know what I mean? I think I'm doing fine. You're like five steps ahead of the rest of us, which is you. I don't know that he is you and it's on him to prove that he is because that

job is going to be full stress all the time. Can I make one more quick point? There are two people in the Senate that have had strokes. They may have sensory issues, which most people with strokes have, or cognitive issues. We don't know anybody. There's lots of people in the Senate who might have cognitive issues. So that's what voters have to decide. Is it a cognitive issue or a sensory issue? Sensory issues can resolve themselves for better or worse, but people still have cognitive abilities. Cognitive abilities is what I focused in on. He answered every question of mine perfectly well. No problem. Kara Swisher, I appreciate you being here. Thank you for the insight. You're always welcome. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate

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