The Chris Cuomo Project - D.L. Hughley Says Trump Is America

Episode Date: September 8, 2026

D.L. Hughley (Actor, Comedian, and Host, “The D.L. Hughley Show”) joins Chris Cuomo to discuss why he believes Donald Trump reflects who America really is and why the country may have reached “rock bottom.” Hughley and Cuomo dig into race, civil rights, immigration, political division, and the historical forces that continue to shape American politics. Hughley also argues that Trump and his supporters are now confronting the results of the policies they wanted, and explains why acknowledging where the country is may be necessary before it can move forward. Join The Chris Cuomo Project on YouTube for ad-free episodes, early releases, exclusive access to Chris, and more: https://www.youtube.com/@chriscuomo/join Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Labor Day is hitting different this year, and there's good reason for that. There's a conversation you've got to listen to and you've got to think about. Not because it's easy, but because it's hard. I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. D.L. Hughley is not just funny. Okay? He is a man of a certain age.

He has lived. He is dealing with something that is almost impossible for him to believe as a black man in America, which is that he was born in 1964, which now looks like a golden age for minorities. in America when rights were expanding and the idea of equity and the idea of true parity and equality were real. Now he's got grandkids and at least the daughters, the granddaughters, they don't have all the rights that he had in 1964. They're eroding what happened for voting. They're eroding what happened for control of your own body. You don't think that removing row with Dobbs is the first instance since prohibition of a right being taken from a class of people. So you get hit twice as a black female.

So Labor Day is when we appreciate what is supposed to be about in this country, which is what? Making your way. And we are at a very important time when we don't know what that means anymore. It's all about the few. It's not about the many. We do not respect or honor labor. We don't. And I don't mean about unions.

It's not what I'm talking about. Unions matter to me. I think they're important. I think the erosion of unions has hurt, has hurt the American experiment. But that's only one little piece. What matters? What are we about? D.L. Hughley has a clear-eyed understanding of the concerns of the time, as well as why he believes in a rational optimism and why he believes that there is

something next to come. And I wanted to talk to him about it and I want you to hear it. D.L. Hughley, you know the name, but these ideas are going to hit different. So I have a working theory that I wanted you to weigh in on. Okay. It's kind of like where we are at. Well, first off, how are you doing? I ain't taught you in a while. First of, wait, wait, hang on. How are you, Chris? I miss you. I miss you. I miss you. I miss you. I miss. I have been watching. I have been listening. You know, and I think something's interesting. You say this very rarely, but I did hear you the other day, kind of say what I've been hearing like a Bill Burr says also and it always, hey, listen, I'm just a comedian, man. I'm a comedian. You are not just a comedian. And even if professionally, yes, you're a comedian, you're an entertainer, you're an actor, fine. There is a long legacy of our, entertainers are comedians being social commentators and social critics. And I don't think there is any reason for you to demean the value of what you're putting out

there because you're all so fucking funny. You know what I mean? And I feel the same way about Bill Burr when he puts out stuff and he says to reporters, what do you ask me anything for? What do I know? I'm just, you're not just a joke teller. Well, you know, you're a dear friend of mine, but I will say this. It says more about what you're, what, what import society puts on levity that it does on people who are supposed to be professional storytellers. I think that I read recently where the vast majority of Americans get their information from satirist, which says a lot about what we are as a society. And so it isn't so much diminishing what I do. It is society's import and who, and who,

they choose and how they choose to absorb information is more to point. Well, look, let's say you're right and I have read those same indications. Then that only makes you more important than even I was suggesting. And what does that mean to you? Does that give you a sense of empowerment, a sense of purpose, or are you like, geez, we're in a bad place if people have got to look to me now? I think all of it. I think all of it. I think that's how devoid. I remember I once did a movie and this guy said in the play, he said he was so devoid of human touch that even a knee in the back felt like a blessing to him. And I think that's where in society, I think our inability to absorb information without being tentilated, without being satiated, without being distracted is probably why we're in a situation we are right now. Like the reason we're addicted to so many things is because we, We have to have things sweet.

We have to sack, like we're addicted to sugar because we can't just take the unbondish truth. And we are in the situation we're in right now is because people don't tend to pay attention. And I think that anybody who study any level of history knows that this is probably the beginning of the demise of any great empire of civilization. is where people stopped hearing and believe they already knew what was going to go on. And they stopped being curious and they stopped paying attention. And things like this happened. Now, you know Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Lenny Bruce before them had the same apocalyptic prophecies that that's it. Man, we stopped paying attention.

And now they're getting over on us. and this is the beginning of the end. Why does it feel different to you here and now? Well, probably to all those people, they would have probably had a moment like this, but I think that there's no debate. I think the American psyche was always predicated on our feelings, how we felt about things.

If you look at, I remember, you know, one of the things that Trump wanted to avoid was this comparison to Jimmy Carter. Jimmy Carter was a good human being but not a great president, and I think it's hard to be both. It's hard to be a good man and a great American president. I think if you look at the underpinnings of what was happening, you had the Iran hostage situation and you had high inflation and you had America not feeling away about itself. But this time is decidedly different because for the first time, I think in the history of this nation, we are the danger. it isn't China it isn't Russia it isn't so our perception around the world in a few short years

has as taking a hit that I think is irreparable I just so let's indulge I think I think it's I think it's not just talk I think the way our allies feel about us now which is more of a they have to, not I want to. I think you see that in what's going on with the regime in Iran, which everybody knows is a bad group of individuals, but why is nobody jumping to get involved with us? Well, it's because it's Trump, what we see with ICE, what we see with our institutions. Yes, they've always been under assault, but it feels different right now. It just, it feels like stuff is going to hell.

Well, if you are a black or brown person or you live in a blue city or a blue state, you really have no representation at the federal level. You are really on your own. I don't care if you're getting trouble from a natural disaster or if there is a, you know, a budgetary concern. You're on your own. This is certainly we've had situations where people, you know, red and blue. But generally, there was a sense that we were all in this together. And I don't think anybody can honestly say that. I think that. It's this fragmented notion. It's like having a no smoking section on a plane. And I think it feels very divided. I think it feels very fragmented. And I think we saw

underpinnings of that during the first administration when there was that approach to COVID. I think now we are in the situation we're in because a bunch of people decided it would be better if one group was in charge. And they are. This is, we have a bunch of white men, whether they're competent or not, who are running

every aspect of this country. And it is, it is, it is shown you how important diversity is. Because when you have one mindset, one thought, one idea, you, you, you, you, you've all prayed to stuff like this. An economy that wants the envy of the world isn't. Now, I can say that a lot of people, a lot of billionaires are rich, but people on the average, on the aggregate, there are people who just didn't know how interconnected all these things were. It's like pulling a string and then finding out the whole sweater falls apart. People didn't know. Farmers didn't know how dependent they were on SNAP or on the federal level.

You didn't know just the sheer backdrop of what a farmer has to deal with, weather, prices, the market, you know, the value of things, fertilizer, fuel, all those things were offset by the government. Now there's no help, but they thought it would only affect somebody else. They were successful at telling us it was always someone else, and it's been laid bare. We are better when we're together, but now we don't even know how to be. You know how to be. What do you sense when you're on the road? What are you getting from people? And what has it done to the challenge for you to be funny?

Well, it's all ironic. I mean, like, you can't kick out all the immigrants and wonder why your construction ain't done. You can't wonder why your pool is green. You can't wonder why lettuce makes you shit. Like, you can't. We are all in it. But I think that there is, to say that people didn't know this was going to happen or didn't know how Beth was going to be is interesting because there are no innocent players in this. There are people who voted for this.

There are people who didn't vote and there are people who voted against it. But all of us, if you are at a certain age and you were able to participate in the political process, whether you decided to or not, you have a hand in it. And it is all our value. We are all in this together, whether we want to be or not. But you can see now, you have a man who's not even interested in Tucker. He fights harder for a ballroom than he does for anything else. And everything is about a gimmick and everything is about transaction. And I think that a country, I would never look at a country because this isn't a one-off thing.

This is 12 years. Members of this country have been voting for this guy. And he had the same moral five. So if I were another nation, I wouldn't, who attacks Canada at the same time they argue with Mexico? At the same time they're fighting Iran. at the same time that they're fighting, trying to annex Greenland. No one does that. What does it mean to you that he got the most votes?

Now, of course, demographics matter, right? The country gets bigger than more people. You're going to have more popular votes. But the fact that he took votes from groups that used to be democratic, not just democratic voters, but against. what he is, what does that mean to you? It means that he appealed to the very base selfishness that is inherent it on everybody.

Everybody is naturally inclined to be selfish. You have to work hard not to be. But everything that he promised him was to happen to somebody else. Like look at all the Haitians who thought it wouldn't be them, or the Venezuelans who thought it wouldn't be them, or the Cubans who thought it wouldn't be them, or the Mexicans who thought it wouldn't be there,

or the Ethiopians who thought it wouldn't be there. Everybody thought that somebody else was the response. for their problem, and they would bear their brunner. And I think now you see that all of us are in this together, all of us. And I think that they were able to appeal to somebody. They successfully made people believe that somebody was responsible for their life, that those people would be gone, and then this floodgate of opportunities would happen. And I think that's a fool's errand, and I think that we're bearing the brunner now.

Did you see, or how does it strike you, that this may be in your life, in my life, this is the first time that that scapegoat isn't you, by the way. Usually, when somebody is making a group responsible for the pain of white people or for the majority, it's usually the black man. And they were successful in doing it. The one thing, I don't care what immigrant comes here. They don't, the immigrants come here. It is love that generally brings people together. But in this country, it is the stain of black. Everybody, finds a way, no matter where they come from to blind things on black people. They do. They find a way. This is the first time, though, that he, look, he started with that. That's what

DEI was. Sure. You know, that's what, but now it's really not about the, you know, black people as a focus of animus, of otherizing, and all those other fancy words. It's really the immigrants in a way that we haven't seen before. Even immigrants. The first thing they do, is tell you they're not black. The first thing they do is make a delineation. There's a delineation between them and us. And I think ultimately, the only people are not by and large surprised by this is black people because nobody knows this country better than us.

Nobody does. Nobody does. We can have all these conversations. Like I hear Bill Maher all the time. And he's, to me, the quintessential example. He's a guy who used to hang around with black people and dated black women. It was very cool. And now he's becoming what he was.

he was becoming what he've always been. And so ultimately, in this country... And what is that, by the way? What do you mean he is... I think he is a selfish, self-centered, myopic, old white man. And I don't know that he knows how to think any differently. Like, I heard him talking to Howard Mandela about bad ideas. Well, the Iran War was a pretty bad idea.

It couldn't have been executed well with a game show host president and a drunk podcaster executing a war. It couldn't have gone well. There was no... The thing about this country, we tend to not understand. Like, Iran is not all part. Iran is an advanced civilization. Iran has a 95% literacy.

They top 10 in the world in science and chemistry. This America, we read at the fifth grade level, we don't fuck the round start a fight with tech support. Like, they have fought every major power known the man. They fought the Roman Empire. They fought the Byzantine Empire. They fought Ganga's Khan. They fought Alexander Great.

If you'll fight Aless. Alexander and Gray, and the way and the fuck, you're going to be scared of Donald the Dunham. And that's, like, literally, this is Kendrick and Lamar, and guess who Drake? This is Kendrick and Drake, and guess who Drake is? The fact that people are so, he believed that you can just be white and throw things at things that people will see to your will. And it doesn't work.

You could put these people in situations that they're not bright enough to be in. You fire all the generals. You make loyalty. Like, we have a ship. In the USS Abraham Lincoln where they can't eat, there's no sanitary supplies, they're not outfitted well. If you're so busy testing for testosterone, you forget that women need tampons. It's the most insane thing I've ever seen. But America believes, a lot of people believe that all the source of their problems with all these people who had jobs and who had these positions of power that were artificially given to them.

So if we strip all that away and we give it to the rightful airs of that place, the world would automatically be a better place. And there is no place where that's working. No aspect this country is working. I get heat for this and I understand why I do. You know, sometimes when you do what I do the way I choose to do it, you're signing up for... Which is why you think we're still friends.

Certain feelings. certain criticisms. I sign up for it, and I understand that. And I'm not saying it just to be provocative. But one of the things I say to people very often is, listen, Bibi Netanyahu is a bad guy, as a bad ally for America. He is not Israel any more than Donald Trump is America.

But I have to tell you, I have been thinking recently. I'm right about Bibi Netanyahu. He was very unpopular at home. he is on multiple stages of litigation. They were coming after him and with good reason. He is the most right wing. He has empowered the Hasids. He has empowered the crazies there like we've never seen before as observers of Israel.

But I think I'm only half right. I'm right about him. But I think Trump is America. You're fucking right. He is. He embodies everything we are. Everything we are. On the bad side.

On the bad side, most of it. Well, here's the thing. People don't like this. Everything you think about of America, the good shit is black people. It is. All the dope shit about us is us. It is us. Like, if you look at who influences culture, it is black people.

Like, this is not me. This is statistical. Black people influence culture. But if you look at who's the most malign and the most distrusting and the most distrusting and the most dislike, it is also us. This is America. And the problem is now there is no obfuscating. We know exactly who we are, and we don't get to pretend to be like we're not.

We have allowed this. We have allowed this to happen. Our institutions are in tatters. Our reputation is in tatters. The idea of us is in tatters. We are laid bare for the world to see and even for ourselves. And the great thing about that, without a death, there can't be a resurrection. And the idea of America had always been, do you know that black people have fought in every single war in this country, every single one?

And in every single war, we have been fighting against the country at the same time. We can fight Germany, but we're still fighting to be free. We can fight. Even right now, when we're fighting Iran, we are fighting for people. They're rolling back rights, the Voters Rights Act. So there's never been a time when black people love this country. We fight in every war, in every single iteration of that war, we have not only been fighting Hitler or the actions of evil or an Ayatollah or an idea or communism. when this country wasn't fighting us at the same time, at the very same time.

So you say there can't be a resurrection without a death. Is that a statement of optimism about what you think is to come? I think that that's a statement of truth. I think that's a, there's no pretending like it isn't so anymore. Even the way we fight wars anymore, the way we're built to fight wars. We haven't lost, we haven't won a war in 60 years. Well, there is, I don't disagree with you, but there is a, there is a twist on that. We don't occupy.

The way war used to work is you and I have beef, we go at it, someone's going to win and someone's going to lose, and the other one is going to own all of it. And then you'll figure out what you're going to do moving forward. We don't do that. We don't want to do it. And we don't know how to do it, which was the big sin. of the war on terror. Yes. Or the war on drugs.

War on drugs. War on drugs was, you know, I've, that's been a pet peeve for mine for very long. That pretty much was a catalyst of me in this business, was crossing swords with Barry McCaffrey back in the day, dating myself, which I am more prone to do these days. I've fallen in love with my maturity. I have. I have fallen in love with it because, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know,

You know, at one point I was just like saying to my son one day. I was like, listen, stop asking me to do shit that I can't do anymore. I understand that you think I look like I'm capable of things that I'm not capable. You stop lying to yourself. You stop lying to yourself. It's like, I can't, no, I can't dunk a basketball. It doesn't mean I never could. Right.

It doesn't mean, but I can't do it anymore. But I'll tell you what I can do is I have wisdom. I know things. I understand things. I see things coming in a way that has become a very precious commodity in our media. Sure. And I see things. What I don't see and why I was so happy to have you on.

And I don't care if you give yourself credit for this or not because it's just, it's demonstrable to me in my relationship with you over many years. I don't see the better any time soon. I do believe that he loses in the midterms, but not like where there is a veto-proof majority for Democrats in the House and the Senate. You know what I mean? So I don't know what it really means. I do believe we have to have balanced power right now with the way things are. But I'm starting to listen to people differently when they would say, he's not going to leave. He's not going to leave.

I would say stop. He's going to leave. I remember you saying it. And I, look, I still believe he's going to leave. I believe the institutions are stronger than his envy, than his pride. But I no longer correct people the same way of D.L. You lost the plot now. Calm down.

Take a hit. You're all right. I don't say that. You're right to be afraid. You're right to be worried. I'm not going to say you're not. It's not fair to people who feel that way because it is a rational fear. It is a rational fear.

Maybe my optimism is irrational. Maybe. Maybe. I think your optimism is the only reason we exist. You know why there's nothing to fear when you already knew what was going to happen. It's the punch you don't see that knocks you up. It's not, this is the only chance we have is to accept our part in this. Like when people say, I didn't know.

And like I hear all these people, I didn't know, you did. The one thing I will say to his credit is that everything he's saying, everything he's doing, he said he would do. They were so sure that we would not be moved by it. They put what they were planning to do in a book. It's right there for everybody to see. So there are no innocent people. What gives me optimism is I know America is very good at colloquialism. You've got to hit rock bottom and it's tough love.

That's what we are right now. That's what we are. I hope so, because I'll tell you what, we are dealing with first world problems here at home, not in terms of our talk, not in terms of our psychology, but if we were hard-bitten like we were in the 20s and then in the 30s,

you'd see a lot of quick change because people would have nothing to lose at a scale that we're not used to in this country. And I heard a line the other day of all things, the Green Lantern series. But I heard a line that was great. And maybe you'll say, no, I've heard that before. This mother is talking to her child, and she says, listen, courage is nothing but fear that has said its prayers.

And that is a great line. And I do think there is a little bit of, I hope, I hope. I don't even know what I'm looking at half the time, but I'm looking up. And I get it. I refuse to be afraid because I want to fight. And I think that when you're afraid, it's hard to fight. It's hard to fight when you're afraid. You've got to.

If you're governed by fear, but it's impossible to be, like, it's impossible. When I was growing up, I was always the first one pick for a fight and the last one picked for a game. So they never felt discernibly different to me. Like, it was never, it was never. And both of them wanted to pre-ordained out. They wanted to win, and these were the ways you did it. But the great thing about this place is that we lean into the idea that we were founded on,

or that we were, at its core, America was always aspirational. It was always expansive. When it gets small, it is a problem. Every right that ever expanded our rights was great. The only time we ever took anything away was prohibition. When we tried to limit rights, like when I watch people, I'm watching now, I can tell America is inclined to listen by the names they choose to take. When you start hearing like Mondami and you hear the dudes that sound like the protagonist on the lioness and America is willing to listen to it.

It tells you and listen to how now people are willing to say maybe it's not so bad that everybody gets health care. Maybe it's not so bad that everybody gets to eat. Maybe it's not so bad that our bridges are modern. Like, if you go, the one thing I'll say about China, and I don't know that there'll ever be a group of people that wanted to rule the world

through military prowess. Like, China doesn't have the bases we have. They build infrastructure. Like in China, I'm not lauding China, I don't know, but I do know they can build things just because people need it. In America, if you want to build something,

a white guy has to get the lowest bid and he has to make money for it. If you tell you want to build a park, if you want to build an airport, somebody has to make money for it. It cannot be for the good of the people. And if it's for the good of people, it's socialism. But what is wrong with the wealthiest nation in the world, not having people starve

to them? What's wrong with the wealthiest people in the world, not having all the citizens educated? I heard a guy, and he was talking about his Medicaid got cut. They were talking about the fact that because people seem to forget that California is really just Kentucky. It really just Alabama. It's really a few, like it is a very rural state. Like 60% of the produce grown consumed in America at one point was in California.

But he said his bills were $800. He makes $800. His medicine was $20,000. And he said, what am I supposed to do? You're going to die. You're going to die. Yeah. Because that is what you have said was okay.

I never thought that was okay. I never thought. I never have thought that it was okay that somebody in the wealthiest country, like the two wealthy, the two cities in America who have to. largest homeless population of California, excuse me, Los Angeles in New York, and they also have the highest concentration of millionaires and billionaires. That shouldn't be. That shouldn't be. We should not settle for this. Donald Trump has acknowledged three things while president that I think are really, really interesting commentaries. One, he was asked about the dreamers and he said,

everybody loves the dreamers. I'm going to take care of them. We're going to take care of the dreamers. As a standalone, are you going to do a big big? No, no, no, it's too hard. Nobody wants to do a big bill. We'll just do them alone. Second, I'm going to call in the health care bigs. And they'll come when I call them. I know some of them. They know me. They respect me. I'm going to call them all in. I'm going to say, hey, this is not working. Okay. You're making too much and people aren't getting enough. We're going to change it with or without. you and then I'm going to close the doors and we're going to get a deal done. Third thing, you know what? You're right. It's crazy. People are struggling and these credit card companies just charge more and more and more and they find all these different ways that it's wrong.

You know, there's a thing called usury, he said. I'm going to limit the credit card rates at 10%. They tell me I can do it. I'm going to do it. Those three things showed that somewhere in that man, there is still a modicum of common sense of what is actual reality. And in each of those cases, he was immediately approached by Stephen Miller, Mike Johnson, and it went away. And the way they got it to go away all three times, which is why I keep bringing them up all the time and it drives a president crazy, is because they said to him,

if you do this, it will be bad for you. this goes bad for you. He doesn't ever ask why. Like if I said to you, D.L. Hey, man, I heard that you're going to do this. Don't do it. It'll be bad for you. You'd say, why is it going to be bad for me?

He doesn't even ask. The mere possibility that something is anything but good for him is enough. And those three moments were crystallizing for me and why. No, I will not say. that he has a nice haircut. I will not give him credit for what works on an absolute level because it is naturally offset by what he is intentionally. He was an amoral man and has been the whole time.

You know what? I would say amoral may be generous. Immoral. Immoral. Not immoral. But that says a lot about a country where most of the country. in increasing increments every time decided that that was the way. When you are a public servant, and this says a lot about the American psyche,

well, we should take a, only in America would you go, I'm going to take a guy who's never done it to be a politician, right? You would never go to a dentist that never did it. You'd never go to an airplane pilot that never did it. At the core of it, if you want to be a politician, there is at least one thing you have to have. That is, that it's tantam. Obviously, there are a lot of intent.

But you have to want to be a servant. You have to want to serve. We can say whatever we want about what has happened. I knew you. I knew your father. He wanted to serve. Now, whatever else happened, I can't. At the core of it all, you have to care about people more than you care about you.

You have to get, there has to be something past you. I have grandchildren. I love them. My daughter, something happened to me. And I never thought about it. Now, I don't, you know, my daughter got into a situation. She was, she was, she got pregnant. Unfortunately, she lost the baby.

She said, I didn't even know because she was past 30 that they called it a geriatric, geriatric pregnancy. And it was a very, she had that can. It's been a very tough little time. But she's in Georgia. And she was wondering if she was going to be able to have what she needed to get rid of that pregnancy. It just so happened. She was in Georgia.

But she was in Texas, it had been a different thing. Yeah. You said earlier, prohibition is the only time we've taken a right away, except for Dobbs. Roe v. Wade being canceled by Dobbs was the removal of a right. And they'll say, no, no, no, they just gave it to the States. It's the same thing. It took it away from everybody. Why is it the people that yell freedom the loudest in America, only want the freedom

to restrict a woman's right for autonomy of her body and to carry guns? That's the only right they fight for. They only want the right to restrict a woman's body because of their religious ideology and to carry, have unfettered access to them. Or to say speech, which means their ability to say things that don't have any expertise attached to them. Well, I tell you what, they only want a speech, but then when you got a president that uses the FCC to squelps speech or you fire people that tell jokes you don't like, you didn't want that. When they say they want speech, they want to say nigger and derives. And not be punished for it. They don't want...

You know, I had somebody say to me, why are you defending Maggie Haberman? Why are you throwing this in their face? I remember you saying that, you know, you weren't that big a fan of her relationship with Trump. I said, because... A couple reasons. One, no, it doesn't matter what I think of somebody personally.

It's what they represent, okay? And he wants to just in... insult people who say things that he doesn't like. And that's not leadership. Well, the only time it's freedom is when somebody's saying something you don't like. That's right. If they say something, like to me, I know what it's like when Don Iman said, what he said. I remember all, I've been on all, I defended his right to say what he has to say because that is a right, right.

I know that I'm going to want it. I know that everybody else has to have it. To me, everything that was about. that potentially could have been great in this country, that could have been substantive and resonant and have bonded us all together, is now being eroded. Yes. I want to. And it's constant.

You would think that the First Amendment we can all get behind it, right? We have some real battles we have to have here with social media, with AI, with the algorithms, with who's in control. But it's never going to happen if there's not a really dominant consensus about the need for it. But there is a dominant consistent. It is. Like most people agree that, you know what? We live in an al-a-car society.

My algorithm and your algorithm is people, things that you feed it. It gives you what you want. And we have to decide that why is it that every time I hear you telling me the gravitas and the kutumas of your faith, it is to tell me what I can't do. Right. Why is it to tell me that, and why am I supposed to be afraid of, like, they're going to change me into Islam? Ain't nobody ever came to my door to ever try to come. There are only two people that came to my door at time to give me to do anything.

One is the Girl Scouts and the other is Christians. There are only two people. Listen, I get it. And look, I don't even like having to defend certain things, but it's very necessary in a free society. Of course. And look, we can talk about, I don't know why the left is picking the phrase democratic socialist and why it is trying to get into this fight about Islam in such a country that is so bigoted about differences. I don't know why. There's such an opportunity here. Here's the thing. And when we're talking about socialists, everybody is described. what's happening now to Bernie Sanders. It's Jesse Jackson.

Jesse Jackson is saying the very same things now that everybody's saying now. Saying then what everybody's saying now. These ideas are not old, but coming out of a black mouth and black lips, it couldn't. Fox News, the thing that I find the most ironic right now, Fox News made their career of maligning Jesse Jackson.

And now Jesse Jackson's very ideas, the very things he fought for, regardless of how flawed he was and all those kinds of things, are the very things now that are a tipping point for that very organization that spin and that built its bones on destroying it. It is a little sad. You know, men are important. Men have to meet moment, right?

But, and I think about this, you know, Jesse and my father were close. And, you know, if they were alive today, but then, you know, my daughter says to me, yeah but it was a different time what jesse jackson came out of what mario quomo came out of isn't what what's evolving right now isn't what it is right now it's like well but the idea is he's like yeah but they're she says but their experience and maybe that's maybe that's part of it but like i you know i find myself saying listen i don't want to hear protestant people tell me i got to be afraid of muslims because they want to change us right from a christian nation to a muslim nation Right.

You know, you want, you say you're afraid of what you're saying you want, which is that you want this to be a Christian country. We're not a Christian country. And they say, but you were raised Catholic. I know. But the reason that I'm allowed to believe whatever crazy shit I wouldn't believe is that you don't get to tell me that I can't. The thing is, I think these Muslims are putting Christians to shame. I think that when you look at whether you like this or not, the things here are doing are the very things Christ told us to do,

to look out for the sick, to feed the downtrod, to look out for the stranger, everything he's doing. But look, even if they're not, because look, you know, here's what happens, right? So what do they throw in my face, okay? They throw in my face what happens in these backward-ass countries where you have a lot of Muslims. And look what they do with their women,

and look what they do with their gays. Look what we do with our women. There's no discern. difference between an Islamic fundamentalist and a Christian family. They want to do exactly the same thing. Extreme is extreme. I'm with you. Different flavors are the same shit. But I just, I want to make this point very clear. We're in the situation we're in. All presidents, all administrations have unforeseen occurrences. Nobody could have predicted the mortgage crisis. Nobody could predicted, you know, I mean, some things are more like COVID. We are in a situation right now

because he has successful legislation. He wanted everything he got. We're not in a situation because of things that didn't work. We're in this situation because of things that did. You got what you want. And they just didn't work. Tariffs didn't work. Ice didn't work. This war didn't work.

We're in a situation because you thought this is the mindset that would work, even though history told us it wouldn't. And I think that we're only in this situation right now because people now have no other option. I want a country, a wealthy country where people don't starve. I want a wealthy country that people don't die of things. they shouldn't. I want a country, not even a wealthy country. I want a country where a man or a woman is free to love and do as he sees fit as long as it doesn't hurt anybody. I want a country. My granddaughters were born. In 1964, I was born with my mother's first child with the full rights of an American citizen. My granddaughters were born with less rice than that. And that to me

tells you where we are. I think people have to love things. Like great men plant trees, the shade of what they'll never know. We've forgotten that. You come from people who America was its best option because they've seen something else. We are the children. We are afraid of. We are afraid of. We're a nation full of people who were the descendants of great men who never knew struggle and now try to approximate.

You know, what you said originally is probably the best end thought. You know, sometimes you need a death for a resurrection. Now, that doesn't have to be apocalyptic. But we've already heard it. There could be a civil war. I think that we never stopped fighting a civil war. But I say this. I am often asked to explain my dynamic.

Well, you and I know we have, we, you know, there are things that are beyond explanation. But because there are things that are beyond explanation, there are things that I know humanity exists. There are people who can talk about their fathers. We know what we're talking about. They have things that are talking about the experience when nobody else is around. So there's nothing nobody can say to me. about you to me. Now, I can't say how they look at you,

but I know how I look at you. And there's nothing somebody could say that externally would, because I know what we do. I'm not going to give anybody inside a privy. So I know that if I can come from here and you can cover them there, and we can agree on these things

and feel these things and talk about these things, there is hope. But there's one thing we have to seed. We are human. And you're human and my human don't have to look or feel the same way, but they have to be at a certain level, level, who doesn't want their children to do better?

Who doesn't want the place that they gave them what they are to go on? Who doesn't want something past them? And because we're a nation full of people who have co-opped power who want nothing past them. They just want the now. And the now is why we're here, because we're now is inherently selfish. watch a child that you hope like I never knew men

that wanted less for their sons I never have known that and we're a nation full of people you can say what you want about Joe Biden the one thing you can't tell me is that man didn't love his son you can't tell me that you can't tell me that

you can't tell me that he didn't love America but you can I don't know that that's true of a lot of other people They love the idea of America. They love, like that whole day, the whole Solomon thing, where they cutting the baby and half. There are people who would rather the baby be cut and have that somebody else gets something they didn't get. That is true. And we're seeing it.

You know, it's the difference between more pie and your slice of that pie. Yeah. Keeping people off it. We have forgotten that this country has always been at its best when it's just making more pie. Making more pie. and then let the slices be what they are. But we forgot that. And we're just like, yeah, forget the more.

Here's the thing. I don't know if we ever knew it, but the possibility that it could happen. See, for black people, the best way for us is forward. For a lot of people in this country, the best way forward is back. Like, we're a nation for the jettisons and the Flintstones.

And the Flintstones are running the country. Well, look, that was my problem with MAG. from jump, right? People are like, what don't you like about great? I said, it has nothing new about great. It's again. It's again I got the fucking problem with. I don't have any problem with great. I love great. I love more perfect union. I love aspiration. I love it. I love it. I love it all of it. Again is my problem. It's inherently reductive. And when he's asked about when, he always goes somewhere around the gilded age, which was the absolute worst time for the many in the modern American experience.

And so look, we are where we are, and the question is, where are we going to be? And maybe you're right. You need a death of an idea for there to be a new one. And we know we got to do better. And I love listening to you about it. I love your clear-eyed understanding. And I love your love of what we're supposed to be

and what we can be here. So thank you. And I'll tell you this, I love you. I fucking, I don't, I don't, I don't, all this bullshit aside. Me and you talk and have talked about shit that nobody else will ever know. But I, there, there are things that defy explanation. There are dynamics that defy explanation.

And really, that is what we're talking about. It is the first time in this, in this whole, this whole, this whole, fucking rubble. The first time is I want people to vote for things as opposed to the things they don't want, but goes towards something as opposed to a wait for something. And that is, we're in the wilderness right now. And the only way, like you talked about the Green Lantern, and I talk about the movie, The Edge, people die in the wilderness from shame. They don't move. They stay there. And an American decide, because we could be a great experiment,

but we're not the first or maybe not even the last empire to crumble because it does not see past what is now. Amen, brother. Amen. And I'm here for the fight, and I know you are as well. So we'll continue on together. Thank you for coming on. Love you, man. I see you late.

Brother, thank you. Always. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Look, here's what I'm doing and I hope you're doing the same. You've got to tap back into what we're supposed to be about

and become obsessed with better. You got to. I know I've talked about it before, but a lot of ideas you've got to repeat and repeat for yourself, for my own self, let alone for you. Why? Because you've got to repeat things. You've got to install it in yourself and instill it through repetition. We're not where we need to be. We have to be about something better for the many. It can't just be about the few. It can't. It never was supposed to be in this country. It's always been our biggest concern. And it is now. So see Labor Day for what it is, see where we are for what it is, and realize that the path forward matters every bit as much as how we got here. And you got to learn from the latter to make the most of the former, which is the future. We got to get to a better place. We got to be obsessed with better. And we're not. Right now, we're obsessed with blaming people for why things keep getting worse. And that. is a dead end. Thank you for subscribing and following.

Thank you for believing in something better. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to articulate it and expose it for you as a critical thinker. Thank you for buying the merch that shows you're a free agent, that you're different, that you're a critical thinker, that you want to fix America first instead of doing all this stupid shit that we're doing abroad. Thank you for each and for all of it.

The challenges are real. Let's get after it.