The Chris Cuomo Project - Fauci Pleading The Fifth Doesn't Actually Matter
Episode Date: July 30, 2026Chris Cuomo explains why Anthony Fauci pleading the Fifth has become the latest political obsession—and why he doesn’t think it changes much of anything. Chris breaks down what happened during Fau...ci’s Senate testimony, why his lawyers advised him not to answer questions, why Trump continues to avoid the same scrutiny over the government’s pandemic response, and what we’ve still failed to learn from COVID. Chris also breaks down new polling on affordability, healthcare, immigration, and the economy, explaining why he believes politicians are focused on the wrong fights while Americans are focused on paying their bills. He discusses Trump’s standing with voters, why affordability remains the defining issue for so many Americans, and why the conversation in Washington looks so different from the conversation happening around kitchen tables. Join The Chris Cuomo Project on YouTube for ad-free episodes, early releases, exclusive access to Chris, and more: https://www.youtube.com/@chriscuomo/join Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Save 20% on your first online Lucy order at https://lucy.co/CUOMO with promo code CUOMO! Visit https://www.sleep.me/CUOMO to get your Chilipad 2.0 for up to $255 off with code CUOMO, plus free shipping and a 30-day risk-free trial. Limited time only. Get 25% off Cowboy Colostrum with code CUOMO at https://www.cowboycolostrum.com/CUOMO Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Transcript
Discussion (0)
The American people would like to understand your reasoning, your rationale for why you chose to fund the research in Wuhan.
There have been, you know, intelligence agencies, the CIA, the FBI, the DOE, have all come to the conclusion that more likely than not the virus came from the lab in Wuhan.
And so we'd like to know what was the rationale, what was the discussion, how, you know, what went behind the
decision to fund the research in Wuhan. How did you come to the conclusion that a totalitarian
country would be capable of doing this in a BSL2 lab, a lab that lacked the security? What was the
reasoning? And are you sorry, basically, for making the decision? Would you, you know, like,
given another chance, say, well, gosh, circumstances. Now as I know, maybe it wasn't a wise thing.
Can you explain to the committee why you chose to fund this dangerous research in China?
On the advice of counsel, I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution.
That's it. Time to turn the hat around. This is the first step in the road to ruin for Tony Fauci's reputation.
But I'm telling you right now, this isn't what the midterms are going to be about. This is completely never going to move the needle.
and this clip is going to get more attention for how attractive the blonde woman is over Rand Paul's shoulder
than it is about anything that just came out of his mouth. And that's how stupid our politics has become.
But I'll tell you the truth about what they want to get out of Tony Fauci. And I'll tell you the truth about
what is going to matter a lot more to whoever wants to win the midterms.
I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to the Chris Cuomo project. Look,
I know Tony Fauci.
I know his answers to these questions.
I like Tony Fauci.
I respect what he did during the pandemic.
I told Tony Fauci at that time,
Tony, they are setting you up.
You should not be the messenger for political decisions.
I told him that.
Did Tony like it?
Sure.
I'm sure he liked it.
Who wouldn't?
The sum total of your professional legacy,
getting to be out there and doing exactly
what you always thought mattered most.
and this president gifting you.
President Trump, by the way,
the guy who was never mentioned in that,
and he will never be mentioned,
even though he put Fauci front and center,
nobody else had ever done that before,
he put him there, he kept them there,
he botched the response to the pandemic,
he said it was a cold,
he said it would be over by Easter,
he said it would just be a couple of weeks, right?
He said that the numbers weren't real,
he screwed up the PPE,
he did Operation Warped Speed.
He's the one who told the agencies
to shortcut all their processes
to get it done.
You and his people who voted for him
celebrated it as the best thing ever.
The vaccine was great.
They went after Kamala Harris
for saying, I'm not taking a vaccine
that Donald Trump came up with.
And you said, how dare you?
But Tony Fauci is the bad guy
in the pandemic?
Because what?
Here's the allegation.
Here's the accusation.
You created
COVID-19. That's the accusation.
You funded gain of function, which you don't know.
You're never even going to know what the fuck that means.
There's three different definitions of it.
And here's what it means in the simplest form that works for me.
You start messing with viruses to see what you can make them do to figure out how to stop
them from doing that if they ever get to that point of doing it.
That's what they do. Did it get funded?
Yes, specific to what?
don't know. Is it what created COVID-19? Zero percent chance. That's what all the government
agencies say. That's what everybody who has researched it in any kind of responsible way has said.
So if whatever they were doing didn't lead to COVID-19, then what are we talking about?
That's what's always bothered me about it. Now, that gets conflated with them not being straight
about where the virus came from. Look, whether it came from the lab,
unless you're going to show that Tony Fauci funded research that led to COVID-19
and somehow only Tony Fauci is responsible for that.
Nobody else had anything to do with it.
Then what are we talking about?
Well, he didn't want us to know from the lab because of the gain of function stuff because he was covering it up.
Where's the proof of that?
It's not even in his diary.
Oh, well, he says that a lot of the people on the panel who are looking at it think it was that.
Yeah, and look at their report.
There's no proof that he doctored the report.
The report's like, we're not sure.
We think it may have been a lab.
but here's why I may not have been.
I was asking those questions at the time.
Would I go back and do things differently?
Hell yeah, I would.
Why?
Hindsight's 20-20.
That's why.
And I know that we made mistakes.
That's why.
I don't believe the vaccine was poison.
I don't believe it hurt more people than it helped.
I don't even think that's a close call.
I think that's silly.
And it's not said in any other country, except ours.
It's not curious to you, huh?
Not curious to you at all.
Okay, fine.
So why did I say that this is the first step on the road to ruin?
You plead the fifth man?
It's a bad look.
Do I understand why?
Yes, why?
Because I'm an attorney.
Would I have taken the pardon?
Me personally?
No, why?
Because I want to go down fighting, obviously, right?
Look where that got me.
You know, I didn't protect myself when I was at CNN,
and I knew what was coming for me because of perceptions about my brother.
And I did it anyway.
Okay.
Would I do it differently now?
No, but I'm an idiot. If I'm Tony Fauci, I take the pardon. Why? Because they're going to come for you. That's obviously what is going on here. And his lawyers are telling him something now, which is why he pleaded the fifth and he never has before. And I'll tell you something else. Tony Fauci was encouraged to plead the fifth before this and he chose not to. He thought his candor would be clarifying. He was wrong. It has never moved the needle for people. Now they believe that these guys are going to.
to try to say that what he is lying about is different than what he has said in the past,
and he can be prosecuted anew. And his lawyers are worried about it. So he's going to plead the
fifth, and they have convinced Tony Fauci that whoever is going to think that this is the first
step on the road to ruin for your pedigree, you already thinks that. So just protect yourself.
That's all that matters now. And he is an old man who doesn't have that level of fight in him.
I get why he's doing it. It's a bad look.
And just so you understand this.
And look, it's a powerful distraction, which is why I've talked about it for minutes when I really want to talk to you about something else tonight.
Because I got poll numbers tonight.
I always think I'm on TV.
I have poll numbers and I have obvious movements in the electorate that are telling us exactly what this midterm will be about.
Unless stupid shit can get in the way, which is absolutely what the right wants.
And I don't like to paint Senator Paul with that brush because I don't think it's fair to him.
I think he acts with integrity most of the time.
I don't get his pension for going after Fauci.
I really don't.
But, you know, he's being very helpful to the Maga cause in this.
And I'm not saying that that's his aim or his ambition.
He's never been that before.
And I believe he really believes this.
I just don't know where he thinks it gets him.
Or us, frankly.
But I will tell you that Tony Fauci thinks that this is,
the right way to play it so that he can end this chapter. And I think it is sad that this is the last
chapter of his public kind of timeline. But this is where we are. And he got caught up in the
politics and this is always where it was going to end. Always. Not because he did bad things,
but because he allowed himself to be the face of the political part of this. And Trump gets a pass,
which is unbelievable to me. Unbelievable. And this won't move the needle. And I'm telling you,
that clip, you'll start seeing people talking about the blonde lady behind rampal.
Because that's all this is is fucking clickbait.
It's not going to be clarifying.
We're not going to learn anything.
Whether it came from the lab of the wet market, why aren't they pointing the finger of China?
I don't get it.
He called it a totalitarian state.
He's talking about China.
I don't understand this.
Our agendas have gotten so focused on destroying the other side that we've now had in one week,
the president and now a U.S. senator who doesn't like the president make the same case,
which is China is a huge enemy. Trump said that they did the most to hurt our elections and are
trying to do it now. He then invites them to a state dinner. Rand Paul says, how do you feel about
why you let this terrible place do this research? He's suggesting that they may have created the
and released it. Where's the action on China? Guess who won't help us investigate what
happened in the lab? China, nobody says anything about it. Same reason nobody says anything about
Trump, because it's not about truth. It's about beating the other side. Support for the
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So, if that's the reality, and let's be honest, it is. Get back to my t-shirt. If you want to
to win the midterms. Get back to my t-shirt. Get the fuck away from Fauci. He's not going to help you,
and he's not going to hurt you in the midterms. This is not a thing, except for right here,
right now, and the blonde is going to wind up being a bigger part of it than anything else.
Because that's how stupid this is. And look, I'd love to go back and relitigate the pandemic.
And look at the fact that we're no better prepared now than we were before that one.
That doesn't bother you, that we learned jack shit.
Oh, I'll never listen to the government again.
Well, then you're an idiot.
Because the idea that the vaccine hurt more than it helped is ridiculous.
Even the myocarditis thing, I got a 20-year-old.
My son took the vaccine.
Do I wish I had had better information about the chance of myocarditis?
Yes.
Did I even know what that is?
No.
Do I know what it is now?
Yes.
Do you?
Right?
I don't know.
You just know that it's a scary thing.
Is it?
No.
So then you look at the numbers. What are the chance? One in 25 to 15,000. Somewhere in that range. Okay, let's say it's one too many for you. Okay, great. What happens if he gets the myocarditis? Nine out of ten of the cases are mild and self-resolved. So what are we talking about here? You make it sound like if the kid had the vaccine, he's going to die of Ardette. It's just not the truth. Could they have had better information? Of course. Could they have been better with the messaging? Of course. Did they do things too long? Maybe.
I'll tell you what I don't like.
I don't like that they gave you all those guys gave you the payroll protection.
I don't like that they give you all those free money that people stole.
How come we didn't hear about that in Doge?
Because they like that.
You liked that free money, didn't you?
Talk about socialism and redistribution and wealth, but that didn't bother you, right?
Them paying for your business's payroll.
Well, they're the ones who told me I couldn't do business.
It's still socialistic, but you were okay with it because it worked for you.
Look, these are the arguments, okay?
Use that mentality of what matters to the many and why.
Fix America first.
Look at the poll numbers on Trump.
You're now over seven in ten who believe he's not focused on the right things.
You see him sleeping.
That's because he's an old man who's past his power curve.
Now, don't sleep on his energy, pun intended, because he's got plenty left in the tank.
But this is not the guy who beat you in 2050.
And if you want to win in the midterms, fix America first. See the truth in the numbers. Nobody's talking about Tony Fauci. Well, then why am I? Because it matters. It matters in the moment. And it matters in understanding the state of play. But I'll tell you what matters more. Stop virtue signaling. Nobody's going to vote for change because they're worried about the democracy. Should they be worried about the democracy? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do I think Trump may screw with
elections. Yeah, yeah, I do. I do. But I think it'll be exposed and opposed. Well, you're an idiot.
Maybe. Maybe I am. Maybe I'm being ridiculously optimistic. Foolishly so. Maybe I have a
romanticful notion about what our institutions and our people are capable of. Maybe. Maybe that's why I
keep doing this job when it is like slogging through shit of people dumping their agendas on me
every five minutes in ways that you can't even imagine. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.
but I am who I am and we are where we are.
And I'm telling you the numbers tell you that what I'm saying is right.
Seven out of ten, he's focused on the wrong things.
Okay?
Seven out of ten.
His policies, two out of ten think they've helped the economy.
Two out of ten.
Two out of ten.
Six and a half out of ten say they've hurt the economy.
Seven out of ten say health care.
is their first affordability concern.
Nine and a half out of ten say affordability is a crisis that they confront daily.
Seven out of ten say the president's tariff policies have put price pressure on them.
See the truth in the numbers and it reveals the path.
Not mail in voting.
Which is something to watch?
Trump trying to do that by executive order is scary, and the Supreme Court considering it is
scary, and I do not believe they're going to let him make changes to mail-in voting.
I don't. Why? Because of the same principle of the constitutional delivery of that to states
by tradition and by court precedent and by the implied ninth and 10th amendment implications,
which is what? If it's not specifically given to some,
then we default to it being for the state. And you don't get to decide balloting. Now, if they were to
pass a federal law and make that constitutional case, maybe it gets litigated, maybe it doesn't,
we'd be in a different place. But we don't have that. And he can't do it by executive the order that
is not legislation. That is my feeling about how it comes out. I could be wrong. Why? Because who
knows what this court does? But if it were a law school exam, that's the right answer. So I'm worried about
that, but it's not going to win the elections. Democracy is not on the ballot. Is democracy an
existential concern in a way that it hasn't been in recent history? Yes, perhaps. But it's not
what's going to be on the ballot. On the ballot is going to be the pocketbook realities,
and that is very good news for people who want change. Why? Because this president,
he owns the status quo. I don't care what he says. I don't care what he says about Joe Biden.
I don't give a shit about any new tapes that showed that Joe Biden was weak in the head when he was president.
No shit.
He's an old, sick man who's had several problems with his brain.
But he wasn't brain dead anymore than, you know, Mr. Trump taking a nap at a funeral or taken a nap during the White House correspondence dinner.
It's shocking to me.
It doesn't mean he's incompetent or the 25th Amendment, which none of you even know how complicated that is and how easy it is.
for any administration to avoid its operation and exercise.
You need to have a majority of the cabinet against you.
It's never going to happen.
It's never going to happen.
And if we're going to happen, you know what to what happened?
Under Reagan.
They all knew Reagan's Alzheimer had taken his brain away.
They all knew it was Al Haig.
And they still didn't do shit.
Why?
Because it's too upsetting.
It's too disruptive.
It's not going to happen.
So don't worry about it.
Democracy's not on the ballot.
Something much better for changes.
the economy is health care.
Your best idea is to take the money and give it to the person instead of paying the companies?
What are you talking about? What's that going to do for prices? That doesn't even make sense.
It's just a shell game because he doesn't have any ideas. It's easy to say the ACA sucks.
You've never done anything to change it. You've never done anything to improve it.
seven out of ten. Say, you should pass the subsidies. How come they haven't passed the subsidies? Because they don't
give a shit. The problem works better than the fix. Unless you're in an election that's about change.
And you are about to be in an election that is about change on an economic level. Okay?
Now, the economics of immigration. Is that going to come into it? Tangentially. Something for you to
remember that has never said. Okay?
7 plus out of 10.
If you're here illegally and you are a threat to society, you should be removed.
7.5 out of 10.
Okay.
7.5 out of 10.
There should be a path to citizenship for people who are here illegally who meet certain criteria.
That number matters too.
And it cancels out the idea that that
issue carries the midterms because you're for open borders and amnesty. The fringe of
DSA, most extreme proposals aside, that's not a thing. It's not on the ballot. It's a distraction,
just like Fauci, just like LabLeak, just like all this shit. And in my opinion, kind of just like
democracy. Is democracy more real? Yeah, because of Trump's obvious desire to fuck with the elections.
but focus on fix America first because she needs to be fixed and he owns the status quo which means
he owns the not fixing and you know the polls are showing that even his own voters say he's not
focused on the right things he's distracted by i won that last election he's distracted by my boy
b b wants me to keep beating up on the arabs he's distracted by the wrongs
things and things that matter more, the right things that he used to be right about in the minds of
many voters, have changed. That's the opportunity. Fix America first. The economy needs fixes.
Support for the first formal project comes from ChiliPad 2.0. Okay? This is why I want these people to
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We are at a point in our economic development.
Now, you guys didn't want to hear this.
I put out a podcast on it, and none of you guys wanted to listen to it or watch it.
Okay.
But here's the truth.
The choices that were made starting in 1970 that fuck the working class by shifting everything
to an investor economy are now in the table again. Why? Because of AI. We have to make major
functional systemic choices. We have to. It's not about socialism or capitalism. Okay.
In a capitalistic society, a government helps companies all the time. Is that socialism? Yeah,
it's socialistic. But it happens. Okay? Owned by the private, helped by the public.
Donald Trump just took a 10% interest in Intel.
Is that socialism?
Is it?
Yeah.
Yeah, it is.
Why?
Because he's taking your money and giving it to a private company to help with its equity base.
What's that?
But you're okay with it, right?
Just like you were happy with that free money.
But you voted for Trump, right?
Because you wanted him to deal with government spending.
But you were okay with that free money during the pandemic, right?
Look, the hypocrisy is opportunity, all right?
Fix America.
of first economy is going to be what motivates this election. Not anything else, unless you fall for it.
Now, I don't think that the Democrats are in fall forward mode. And I don't think people in this
country are for fall forward mode. I do think the Democrats are more in it than the people in the
country, and that's good news. Why? Because the polling is too consistent about the dissatisfaction on
these pocketbook issues. More than any culture war. Right now.
These are a big few months we have in front of us in terms of what they can develop as a counter-narrative.
But it's communism versus capitalism?
Not a thing.
It's not going to work.
Why?
One, name me one communist country.
Name me one.
Russia?
Nope.
Socialist.
Why?
Look up what communism is.
Look up what it is.
They're not even close to it.
They're trying.
With that evil bastard, they have run on them.
Trying.
But they know where close.
North Korea?
No.
Not really.
No.
Checks a couple of the boxes, but no.
So, one, it's a complete boogeyman.
Two, does the DSA call for things that are little out there?
Yeah, so did Project 2025?
Right?
But you just saw that as one person's reckoning, and it was exaggerated, and it's just a wish list of fanatical people,
and it's not going to add, da, da, da, da.
But you don't want to do that.
But you don't want to give that to the DSA.
See what I'm saying?
So I don't like a number of their proposals.
I also don't think they're going to happen.
I absolutely believe in capitalism.
I think it's the ultimate meritocracy.
But I do think how you regulated matters.
I do think that capitalism without conscience is just about greed.
And that's not what our society can be about.
It can't be that basic.
It can't be about your eternal quest for more and everybody getting the fuck out of the way.
I don't believe in that.
And neither does America, which is why,
regulations have always been in place. And it is time for them again. AI is going to change everything.
It's like the discovery of electricity. It's not just a technological advance. It's a resource that's going to
change a lot of things in ways we do not understand. Neither do the people who are making it,
which is scary. So take that opportunity. How do you regulate it? Who does it help? How does it
hurt? How do you adjust? What does it mean? How do we feed the artisan class and get the trades back in it
because we're going to need them more than ever, and it turns out they're more AI-proof than being a coder.
These are all the conversations to have. Not tariffs. Not tax cuts. Certainly, not tariffs that fund tax cuts.
Wow, you talk about redistribution of wealth. You want to have a political argument. I'm here for it.
That's why my hat's turned around. You want to tell me that you're worried about redistribution of wealth.
But you are in favor of tariffs that I have to pay, that you then say, that you then say,
say that revenue, the revenue to the government is this, like, gift. No, it's coming from me.
It's coming from the consumer. And now you're going to take that money and use it to justify a tax
cut that goes to the top? That's not redistribution of wealth. Are you kidding me? What do you think?
I'm stupid. That's the conversation of the midterm. That's the conversation. Not Fauci, not fraud,
Fulgay-Z. None of that. Not chicks with dicks. Not trans. None of that. It's all noise.
Not even the Iran war. This is what the midterms are going to be motivated by.
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How?
Look, garbage in garbage out, right?
So colostrum comes from cows.
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You want to win in Colorado.
You want to win Denver.
You want to win California.
You want to win Wisconsin.
You want to win even Michigan.
You're going to get bright red, light, bright blue.
You want to change the house.
I don't know that you change the Senate.
But you want to change that.
You might.
But you want to change the house?
You got to win close districts.
Purpleish districts.
Now, do you think defund ICE wins in a close district?
No.
Do you think get rid of the presidency and this?
No.
Do you think Fauci is the devil wins in a close district?
No.
What wins?
Reasonable.
Economic fixes.
That's what wins in a close one.
Democracy is not on the ballot with those people.
their existences.
Play to that.
Understand that.
Message to that.
Repeat that.
That is what will change those districts.
Winning in the Bronx is one thing.
Winning in Manhattan is one thing.
Winning in Denver is one thing.
Winning in a close district is something very different.
And it is playing to extreme fatigue or fatigue with extremes or both.
And you have to account for that and realize that will win is the baseline, obvious understanding
that the status quo is not sufficient.
Underemployment is real. Affordability is real.
The guy, when he's not asleep already gave you the gift, he told you affordability is fake news.
95% disagree with them.
What else do you need to know that you shouldn't be talking about anything else?
That's what decides the midterms.
So you take the opportunity.
You want to know about Fauci?
I'm here for it.
You want to know why he took the fifth?
I explained it.
You want to know why that's not going to matter in the midterms.
Now you know.
Just like all these other issues, let the culture wars evolve or devolve.
Fix America First is going to be the mentality that motivates the
districts that will matter in changing the state of play. And there is another metric. People want
divided power. They see that, man, when one side is in control of all this, it just doesn't work
well enough for the many. And it is time for the system to reflect the needs of the many and not just
the wants of the few. That's what wins the midterms. What do you think? Thank you for
following, checking me out in the morning, checking me out here, checking out Cuomo Crime Time,
and you know why I'm in the crime space. I believe it's the last safe space to discuss what
matters in our society without a political overlay. I think we come to those crime stories,
at least thinking about whether the system is out for justice or out for just us being some,
you know, group special interest there. Without the right-left bullshit, it's about right-and-wrong,
more than it is about right and left, and I think that's a good thing. So Cuomo Crime Time,
News Nation, serious, here on the podcast.
I'm here for all of it, and I'm here for you.
The challenges are real.
That's why I'm selling the swag.
Fix America first.
Be a free agent.
Be a critical thinker.
Show that you're different and independent.
That's what we need right now to get to a better place.
So let's get after.
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Who knew ice cold drinks could be so fire?
Six all new drinks are here.
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Refreshers contain caffeine.
