The Chris Cuomo Project - Former DNC Chair Terry McAuliffe Explains Why “Trump Sucks” Doesn’t Work Anymore

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

Terry McAuliffe (72nd Governor of Virginia and former chairman, Democratic National Committee) joins Chris Cuomo to assess the state of the Democratic Party and what went wrong in the 2024 election. From failing to connect on core issues like inflation, immigration, and working-class economic anxiety, to misreading the appeal of culture war politics and populist messaging, McAuliffe lays out why Democrats are struggling — and what needs to change. He and Cuomo debate the party’s messaging strategy, Kamala Harris’s political positioning, and whether MAGA’s success stems from Trump’s policies or his symbolic power as a disruptor. McAuliffe also shares his experience on the front lines in Ukraine and weighs in on what the party must do to win back Congress and move forward after Biden. Note: This episode was recorded prior to President Biden's cancer diagnosis. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Join Chris Ad-Free On Substack: http://thechriscuomoproject.substack.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you want to know where the Democrats are their best, and if you want to know why they're down, I've got the guy who can explain it all to you in terms of their past, their present, but most importantly, their future. I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. One of the great names in democratic politics is Governor Terry McAuliffe. Why? He was there with Clinton. He helped build that machine. He then helped build the party after it. And then he became a governor in Virginia, even though he was from New York. How did he pull that off? That's why Terry McAuliffe is such an interesting point of reference for Democrats. What is working and not working for them right now? What is the future? And by the way, why is Terry McAuliffe a name that you're going

to want to get to know? Here it is. Gov, great to have you. Let's talk about what's top of mind. It seems like Donald Trump is truly the Teflon Don, that he can do whatever he wants and get away with it, whether it's the plane, whether what he says, whether how he abuses norms and the law. How do you explain it? Yeah, it's almost hard to explain. It's like, Chris, nobody even cares what the press says anymore.

He doesn't care what the press says. Nobody cares what anybody's saying. I mean, even cares what the press says anymore. He doesn't care what the press says. Nobody cares what anybody's saying. I mean, think of what we've gone through. You know, just did the huge deal in the Middle East and he's using two billion dollars of Trump bitcoins, which is going to send the value of the bitcoins up. He gets a $400 million dollar plane. You know, I lived through the Clinton years and, you know, I chaired the president's legal fund and all that.

Remember, he had, I don't know, it was 25 grand investment in a thing called Whitewater, if you remember, and had nothing to do with it, lost all of his money. And I think the poor president and first lady spent $60 million on legal fees and the press tortured him every single day of his presidency for an investment he had no control over and lost 25 grand. And look where we are today. It is truly shocking for all of us who've lived through what's gone on.

And it's hard to explain. It's hard to explain the cruelty of this administration. Listen, everybody creses for government efficiencies. We want a strong border wall for that. But we're not for sending a guy down to El Salvador admitting it was a mistake and not bringing him back. I mean, it's cruel what's going on. This is not the United States of America

that Chris, you and I and all of our parents and grandparents, I mean, have grown. We love this country, but it is very mean-spirited. And it's not what people didn't vote for. Elon Musk to get your NIH records. They didn't vote for him to get your tax records. It's crazy. What are the Democrats not doing that they need to do?

I say they gotta be in the business of better. Trump sucks is what got you here. It's not gonna get you where you wanna be. He has teed up the two signature issues for Democrats that I watched warriors like you setting the table for. One, the difference between rich and regular. What does it mean to be regular and what are their options? And the other one is drug prices,

prescription drug prices. He's now teed both up and does not have great solutions on either. It's a great space for Democrats, but they seem stuck on Trump is a bum. Yeah, we need, listen, I thought it was politically very smart for Trump to come out and talk about the prescription drugs. Biden did some of that, but you know,

it was a great story. I think Ezra Klein or someone wrote it recently, that Biden had all of these things, great things that you propose, but there were so many strings attached to them, that it will take four or five or six years. What I do appreciate for the Trump, whether you like them or not, the idea that we're going to go in, we get this thing done. And if I say I'm going to do it, we're just going to go out and do it.

And we Democrats, I mean, we should have had roads under construction with the infrastructure bill. The idea that we had all of this money for broadband, to wire, it was governor. I always wanted Southwest Virginia to get access to rural broadband. How can the kids do their homework? How can you do a small business

if you have no access to broadband? But there are so many strings attached to it in order for these communities to get it that people just threw their hands up and said, screw it, I'm not doing it anymore. So, you know, there is a good lesson, you know, let's do it, let's get it done. The public doesn't care, they just want it done.

Chris, they want the roads to work, they want low taxes, they want their grocery prices low, they want gas prices low. This is not, and that's what we ought to be focusing on every single day. Going around saying Trump's a bum, good, it may make you feel good. It's not moving the ball forward. We got to come up with big, broad ideas, reform the tax code, taking people's taxes down for the people who need it the most.

And that's the stuff we ought to be focused on. And I do like, I saw Chuck Schumer today. I mean, this Senate's got to get a lot more aggressive. He's putting a hold on any judiciary nominee until he gets more information on the playing. Well, if you recall under the Biden administration, Chris, they put holds up every single day against Democratic nominee.

Why are we not treating them? And we had much superior nominees in front of Trump's put up. We gotta play tough. They play tougher. And it drives me nuts. I think it's play tougher, yes. What field I think is what matters.

I think that what Trump has going for him is that he is a symbol of rejection of norms in the establishment that people believe the system is set up against him. He is there to break it. I was just saying to my team, he is the equivalent of slapping the side of the television. They're like, when you can't get the antenna to work, when you can't get the signal, when it's not, eventually you just slap it and you hope it does something, but at least it feels good in the moment.

That's Trump. You guys have to find the field of play where people will see you as the solution and not part of the problem. Right now, Democrats own the establishment. Which is absolutely so crazy, Chris, if you look at the history of our party, on healthcare, on education, on tax reform,

it's our party that has always tried to lift people up. I mean, if you look at the Trump tax code, it's gonna help, you know, Chris, let's be honest, guys like you and me, and you know what? You and I don't need a tax cut. We don't, we don't want it, we don't need it. But there are so many people in America that actually needed to be lifted up economically.

And that's traditionally where, but listen, he's a great salesman. You and I have known the guy for 30 years. He is a great salesman and he talks common sense and he says the stuff that people like to hear. I think sometimes Democrats get a little squeamish about how they, we make things so complicated. I mean, just lay it out, but listen, yeah.

The prescription drug, I think was very smart. We got the American Israeli hostage out. That's great. He's talking about a trillion dollars of investments on this Middle East deal. I don't know if any of it's ever gonna come to fruition, but the public likes to hear that. And we've gotta do that.

We gotta be big and bold. We need politicians in our party who are actually fun crests. We have so many lemon suckers that people just tune us out. And you know, they're like folks who are gonna just sort of lay it out, have some fun doing it in common sense. Common sense used to be who our party was. And we sort of lost it.

We got caught up in all of these other issues that matter to so few people. And we've lost our broad array. And I go back to the great Clinton years, when Bill Clinton came in office and we had four balanced budgets and we had two years of surpluses, he reduced the government, the number of employees by 400,000, Chris.

He did it through attrition, he did it through early government payoffs. He got where everybody wanted this government to be and he did it in a way that lifted people up, wasn't cruel to anybody and had a booming economy but talked common sense. Topps like the Arkansas guy he was. I don't agree with the assessment and as you know my brother worked for the Clinton administration. People blame you guys, I was talking with Jimmy Carville about this the other night, for changing the party. That you guys created the shift towards centrism and what would be the right way to say, cultivating relationships with the elites that turn the party into what it is today,

that the Republicans became the blue collar party and you guys became the party of the elite and the limousine liberal, that that was what Clinton did to the party. Geez, now, you know, I would argue differently. Of course, he lifted more people out of poverty than any president in the history of the United States of America,

did the CHIPS bill, you know, the health insurance bill for so many children that would have no access. And I can go right down the line. I mean, when he left office, there's a reason why he left office with the highest approval rating of any two-term president in American history.

Everybody was doing great. He actually raised the taxes, Chris, on the wealthiest when he was in office. So, you know, I would go against the premise, but you know, people say move the party, and I don't even know what that means. Am I a centrist Democrat? I don't know.

I was a very pro jobs, pro business governor of Virginia. And guess what? I created a record number of jobs and parents could tell their children, you're in Virginia, you're gonna get out, when you graduate from high school or technical school or college, go to Virginia. You know, we've got all these open jobs for you.

So, you know, I built roads and I record investment in education. I don't know what you actually call that, but I call that a common sense governor who did the things that people want us to do. They want their elected officials to just deliver. And you can't do anything, Chris. You cannot do anything as a governor

if you don't have income. And if you don't have a booming economy, you're not gonna have the receipts that you need to invest and rebuild education, or rebuild all of our high schools. We are the first state in America that I started teaching cybersecurity beginning in kindergarten,

recruited all these cyber companies. To me, that's common sense stuff. That's not in the middle or, you know, I want everybody lifted up. And I tell a lot of my good friends on the left, and I got so many great friends, I got them on the right, I got them on the left. You know, you want me to invest as governor

in these programs. How do you think I'm gonna pay for these? I have to do it through economic revenue that comes in from people being employed with high paying jobs. It's the only way because as you know, Chris, a governor does not get like a, someone who works in Congress with the presidency.

We don't, we're not allowed deficits. We can't have them. We have to have balanced budgets. So if I had receipts down, I had to cut or raise taxes. I inherited a record deficit when I became governor, left a record surplus. I did it by growing the economy, building what I call the new Virginia County.

That's just common sense. That's not laugh, mental, whatever. That's just, you know, we got to get off of these crazy labels. Just deliver for the damn people. That's all they want. They want to be left alone. They want government out out of there with the... I don't want to hear about all this stuff. Just make my life easy.

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notice the benefits for yourself. That's drinkag1.com. Slash CCP. What do you make of the Democrat reaction to MAGA of sending out Bernie and AOC doing 25 hour sit ins, 12 hour sit ins on the steps, you know, of trying to create their own populist grievance movement. Do you think that gets you to a better place?

I think it's great that people listen, I've never argued, I used to be chairman of the Democratic National Committee, I ran a big broad party. Everybody's included and Chris, if Bernie and AOC are going out and getting crowds excited and getting them energized and knocking on doors and helping us win the House next year. God bless them. Keep on doing it. And you want everybody out there, everybody. I remember when I was chairman of the DNC in 2004, we had so many candidates running, 12, 13 running. Everybody criticized, oh, you need to limit it. First of all, the chairman of the party doesn't limit

who runs for president. And I have a great relationship with Al Sharpton. Everybody was criticizing Al Sharpton. You gotta get them off the debate stage. I said, no dice. Everybody's on the debate stage. Make your argument. You're gonna appeal to somebody.

Bernie and Al see your, and we may have different opinions on policy, but that's great. We all don't agree all the time. Dorothy and I have been married 36 years. Guess what, Chris? We don't agree all the time, but you know, there are core concepts

that we actually believe in of lifting people up. And that's what Bernie and AOC talk about every single day is lifting everybody up, giving everybody a fair shot at the American dream. And you know, that's what Clinton was all about for his eight years, you know, getting, he got out of bed every day fighting for that average joke, give me a shot at the American dream.

You know, he wants to educate his kids. He wants to go home, have a cold beer at night, just like I do and relax and enjoy life. Bill Clinton was a lot more regular than Bernie and AOC. Bernie and AOC read like radicals, and Bernie's got radical ideas, which is why he never really gets much done in the Senate. He's clearly a socialist in a capitalistic place,

even though people don't understand that we have socialistic aspects to our programs. It's a dirty word. And AOC is like the Democrat you love to hate. Do you really believe you get to a better place, you know, with the Ezra Klein's, like the arrogant, smart Democrats who tell you how dumb you are all the time? Like, is that where the party gets this country back?

You don't get anywhere telling anybody how dumb they are. I mean, you know, I mean, I love being governor, but, you know, I represented one of the most affluent areas of the country, in Northern Virginia, with all the technology. But I was also governor of South Side and Southwest Virginia, where they'd gotten crushed. They lost coal. They lost textile. Everybody's the same, Christian, should be in everybody's eyes. And, you know, you make a valid point.

People shouldn't be running down other people. You can have differences of opinions. I always tried to lift people up. I try always to get along with everybody. I'm not always right. You're not always right. But a good, healthy discussion. But I don't blame anyone for going out and making their case

and trying to get people to move with them and trying to get people to vote for them. I'm okay with all that. And the thing I always argued with our party is at the end of the primary season, the key is actually coming together. That is the key of actually how you win. And let's be honest, Chris, I mean, we won in 92, we won in 96, we won in 2000, we didn't get the prize. Barack Obama won, you know, he won two great wins that he had in 08 and 12. So 16 was very, very close. I'd still make the case, Chris,

that if Jim Comey had not come out and done that absolutely insane, horrible move to reopen investigation, whatever it was, 12 days before an election, which is against DOJ policy, generally would have been present. But you know, when you run for office, there's some breaks that come and others don't, you just gotta deal with it.

But we would have won 16 pretty easily and the world would be a different place today. You know that. Nobody was as qualified, I don't think to be president as Hillary, or experience with Secretary of State, First Lady and United States Senator. And I grew up in Syracuse, New York.

I mean, she was a great senator. Upstate New York and dealing with the rural farmers we had up in upstate New York. So, you know, so it's not as bad as everybody tries to make it out to be. I think and there's no question, Joe Biden should not have run again after we'd had the midterms. He should have pulled the plug and we should have had a primary. The idea that, you know, we had a 100, whatever it was, six days to go, it was too late to have a new primary.

You can't go to our convention and open it up 3,500 people like over four days. So you know, she got dealt a very bad hand. I think she did the best she could with the hand she had. But you know, 70% of the people in 2024 saying the country's heading the wrong direction, that was gonna be a very hard deal. And going to your point, I mean, it's amazing, Trump. I mean, he talked about things, he talked about inflation,

he talked about immigration, two hot button issues. We should have done a much better job and we should have talked to them more often about those issues, because that's what people are concerned about. and talk about the stuff people care about. The reality that the party has its lowest ratings in recent measurable history. Why because Democrats are mad at you for allowing Trump back in because of what Democrats have become.

Why? What do you what Democrats have become. Why? What do you attribute to that? Okay, he keeps saying you like, I run this party, but you know, I was- Well, I see you as a- I was 20 years ago. I know, but in truth, why do I say that? Because I grew up with you

and I respect where you're coming from and Carville and a few others who are still crazy enough to want to stick their heads up as what your party is at its best. Yeah, we're sort of in your face Democrats. There's no question people, we don't mince words. It is what it is, we say it. I think too many people, as I said earlier, Chris,

they're just so controlled about, you know, listen, here's Donald Trump talking about Arnold Palmer's manhood. You know, I mean, we can go all through the crazy things he did. None of it mattered. None of it mattered. Nobody cared.

He could say whatever he want. And, you know, I don't know. That's because it was all proof that the norms don't apply. That's, see, Trump is a symbol. He's in a sweet spot. He's in a sweet spot, and it's fair, unfair, lucky, whatever. It's where he is.

When you're a symbol, people don't have to just reject you to change the... to move the needle. They have to admit that they were wrong about what they made you a symbol of. And no one is gonna admit that they were wrong about what they made you a symbol of. And no one is going to admit that they were wrong to be angry at the system. And that's why he gets the pass that he gets even with the plane, you know, like, yeah, he's a rich guy.

The plane doesn't mean to him what it would mean to Joe Biden. And I'm still pissed at what I'm pissed at. And I'm not going to go bad on Trump because then it means I was wrong to be pissed. And I am not wrong to be pissed. That's what you're up against. Yeah, but one thing, Chris, there is a huge difference which you and I have got to discuss. I look what went through with Hunter Biden

and all the stuff and now we've got the kids over doing business all over the world. They have a much better mechanism of getting their message out than we do. They will take something, but stick Benghazi. Turned out to be, I mean, Hillary Clinton didn't do anything wrong with Benghazi. She was secretary of state, dealing with the CIA post over in Benghazi. But that went on, Chris, for a year.

Look what they did to Hunter Biden for a year. I mean, this is peanuts money-wise compared to what's going on today with the family, but they drive it. They get that message going. Whether you like it or not, Fox is a very effective communicator to the message, to the people who wanna hear that type of message.

And then they've got this huge, and where we really failed in 24, our party really failed, is they had a much better job of communicating through the social media platforms than we did. They were talking to people. I got five kids and they're on their phones all the time. I know firsthand that they were reaching out to them

with all these very specific targeted messaging. And we didn't do that. And I'm trying to help the party now get us up. You know, I burnt when I was chairman, I built the first party's first voter file, 300 million names. We got to get better at talking to people. I mean, we can have a great message, but we don't have the community meaning to communicate with them.

What good is it? We got to have all that ready for the House races next year. We're going to have a good year this year. We're gonna sweep Virginia races. We're gonna sweep New Jersey, the governors and everything else. Next year, I guarantee it, Chris, please invite me back out.

We are gonna win the House of Representatives. And then we're gonna get ourselves up for what goes on in the future. But- How do you win the House if you guys aren't in the business of better? If everybody is campaigning saying, look at what he did, look at what he did, look at what he did on this, look what he

did on that. Why do you think that the people who voted against your candidates, Democratic candidates, so you don't have to own them, Terry, will say, yeah, you're right. Now you're right. Now he's a bum. Don't they have to offer something better? They do have to offer something better? They do have to offer something better, but let's be clear, I mean, you look at the Senate seats that we won, Ruben Gallegos, I mean, you can go through those back in 2024.

And I'll just say this, as you know, you take those couple swing states, she lost by 120,000 votes. If we had shifted 60,000 votes, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, she'd be present. Okay, 60,000, it is what it is. You can look at any permutation. But it wasn't this gigantic mandate for Donald Trump.

He basically got the same vote he got in 20. We got six million less voters. That's the concern. And we can all spend a lot of time going through it. But yeah, we have to have a good message. But look what's happened, Chris. We've had two special elections for the House in Florida. We cut the margins in half.

We won a state Senate seat in Pennsylvania. We hadn't won in a hundred years. That was a plus 15 Trump district. We won the Wisconsin judgeship, even though Leon Musk put all that money in. So you look at the polling data today, Trump approval on the economy is down to 38. Elon Musk put all that money in. So you look at the polling data today, Trump, approval on economy is down to 38.

And if you have your incumbent president at 38 and look at the price of food, those are up, they are not down. He promised to fix it. He promised he'd get Ukraine done as president-elect. It's not done. Look at the mess we have in Gaza today. So he throws this stuff out in the 100 days.

Most of the stuff he says is false. We got to do, we got to punch back harder with a strong message, hold them accountable with a strong message, get good candidates. But he's not popular today, Chris. You know, I agree with you 100%. Donald Trump is the vessel for all the people who are just angry.

They're mad about this. They're mad about that. And he is the vessel for them to bring all of that together. And he sort of is the one who is going to punch through all this to fight for them because they're madder than hell. And he's crazy and he'll say these things and he'll take a, but you want to talk about the swamp. He ran into, I, draining the swamp.

Are you kidding me? Look at the swamp today. We've got foreign governments buying and selling here. We've got the president selling gold watches from the inauguration on Fox. You've got him doing Bitcoin. He's taking planes. You want to talk about a swamp.

No other president in American history has done anything to personally financially benefit themselves. And look at this president. He's taken to a level I've never seen before. How do you explain the lack of rejection by his people? They're with him. They are with him to the bitter end. And you can talk to them. I have friends. I had a friend the other day,

oh, he's got that guy at MS-13 on his hands. I said, no, he didn't. That was Photoshopped. Absolutely, I was wrong. And so no matter what you say, they don't care. They're dug in. But what is it, Chris? Is it, I don't know,

is it 33% of the total population of the United States? Maybe. Is it maybe close to 40? Maybe it's not anywhere near 50. So if we're smart, we do our job right. We get, you know, all you need is 50 plus one and you win these elections. And, you know, that's what we're doing. But, you know, it's not as it was a bad 24. And for a lot of reasons, Biden stayed in too long and common way at

a hundred days and blah, blah, blah. But we could have won that. I would argue to you, Chris, if the president had gotten out right after the midterms and listen, Dobbs, let's be clear, Dobbs was a big reason we did as well as we did in 22. All these people can take all kinds of credit. Forget it. Dobbs motivated women and young people. If the president taken a victory lap,

said I was gonna be here, I'm gonna be transition, and we had a primary, and we got someone who actually could draw distance because say inflation was up, and I could argue against this and that, we would easily have beaten Trump. Now it didn't happen, it's a bad set of circumstances. I can't wait to read this Jake Tapper book that's coming out.

It sounds pretty, from the little things I've read so far, it sounds absolutely fascinating, but it was just a bad break for the Democrats. But it is not cataclysmic. Our party is not dead. We got great candidates. We got great fighters.

I love our governors who are out there every day fighting on those front lines, coming up with great policy ideas and lifting people's lives up. Support comes from Delete Me. Look, you know you've got too much personal information online. Your data is there, okay? You're always getting emails about this was done and your password may be this and your address may be that and this was breached and this was taken.

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from doxing attacks before information can be exploited. All right, look, this matters to me, obviously I'm a public person, but my family didn't sign up for that. Harassment is a real thing, theft is a real thing, doxing, you know, is a real thing. If it hasn't happened to you, you're lucky. I guarantee you know someone it has happened to.

Take control of your data, keep your private life private sign up for delete me and I have a special discount for my listeners right now 20% off your delete me plan when you go in to join delete me comm slash Cuomo enter the code Cuomo join delete me comm slash Cuomo. That's promo code Cuomo tell them I sent you. Jake and his co-writer are trying to pretend that they weren't part of an overall dynamic. I don't know that there was any cover- up of Biden's health. He is an old guy who is weak at night. And that is not unusual in my own personal life of what we've lived through as a family,

let alone something I can't understand as a concept. I have no interest in their book because I know that it is Jake and his co-writer trying to separate themselves from the group. And he's got just as much stink on him as anybody else. But I don't believe what the MAGA people believe that there was some kind of known diminished capacity of Biden that they covered up. What do you think of that idea? That they knew that he goes, look, even him on the view. Okay, that's not what a guy with Alzheimer's looks like

and talks like. That's not what the guy with advanced aphasia or dementia. My father went through that. I know what it looks like. He's an old guy who has never been the most articulate cat in a room, okay? You know, Joe Biden was never known as that. who has never been the most articulate cat in a room. Okay? You know, Joe Biden was never known as that.

Folksy gaffe machine. Okay, that's what he was known as. So, do you buy this idea that there was a cover-up of his obvious disease or diminished capacity? No. Now, I'd spent time with him. I'd seen him. Mostly political or finance-related events and fine. You know, I was not an Oval Office meeting. So, you know, I can't address the issue when I did see him.

I was, as you know, I mentioned once before I was very active in Ukraine. I'd gone to the front lines. I'm a huge supporter of Ukraine and Zelensky. And I personally felt that we should have given them those long range missiles much, much earlier so that they could have the them those long-range missiles much much earlier so that they could have the capability of going in taking out those Russian ammo dumps that were further in that but you know listen I had a couple conversations substantively with the president on these types of issues and you know he

was sharp in those conversations I'd had I don't think there was a huge cover-up I've known Joan for a long time if you know Joe I don't think there was a huge cover-up. I've known Joe for a long time. If you know Joe, I don't think there was any chance in his mind, Chris, when he got elected in 2020 that he wasn't running again, if you just know Joe. I think the first lady, Jill Biden, wanted to do again, and I know- Well, he said he was gonna be a one-term guy.

You know, his original sin, to use the title of the book, was, I'm gonna be a one-term guy. It made him very appealing when he was running against Trump because people wanted somebody to just settle it down with all the chaos of the pandemic, and that made him much more palatable. And he took that away when he clearly had a secondary ambition.

And, you know, that's the original sin, not that they covered up some disease of his. I could do this conversation with him that we're having right now. I could have this conversation as long as it's not after 9 o'clock at night. Yeah. And I think, not the mental capacity, but, you know, his gait got smaller when he walked,

you know, when he went to the Air Force or he tripped over the sandbags. So there was this image out there which people were able to latch onto that he was really, really old. Right. And I think that hurt the dynamic, but you know, people in the White House

used to say to me all the time, well, Terry, who walks away from this? You know, who walks away from Marine One, Air Force One? Who walks away from this White House? Who walks away from this? Who walks away from Marine One, Air Force One? Who walks away from this White House? Who walks away from Camp David? I said, yeah, but that's really not the point of the matter. You're always pretty good as a former president of the United States, too. Listen, it's unfortunate.

Now hindsight's 20-20, but we would have beaten Donald Trump in 2024 if we'd had a healthy primary. And I think the vice president Kamala Harris had a very tough time, Chris, differentiating. I mean, she couldn't run as, you know, anti-Biden policies. You can't. You're part of the team. When my lieutenant governor ran for governor, he couldn't run against me. I'm with you about that. But do you guys give her too much credit? I mean, she didn't even make it to Iowa and she threw Biden under the bus as a bigot. And she was so so shitty early on that they hid her. Then they brought her back, gave her a fugazi title, which wound up coming back to haunt her with the border czar.

I mean, where does this affection and appreciation of her political skills come from? Well, I would hope and believe the president picked her for her skills to be vice president, more so than the political skills. But it is what it is. Once she was vice president, and once he pulled the plug in August,

with so little time left, Chris, I mean, there really was nothing, nothing to be done. And when you look at the exit polls, when immigration was a top, inflation was number one, and he won inflation by 30 points. The number two issue was immigration. He won that by 64 points, Chris. So you're almost talking two thirds of the people

who voted their number one or two issue. He's gotten, you know, two thirds of those people overwhelming support. We had to run someone who could run against it. I'll focus on inflation. I'll close the border. I'll make the border stronger. I guess Chris, going back to how you and I started,

this is that rocket science. Like, why were we not talking about inflation? Why were we not talking about closing the border? Everybody wants a strong border. We don't want people just coming in, flooding in. AOC does. Yeah, well that's not where Americans are. But that's where the party moved to on that issue. That's why you guys got so quiet on it. If you're a governor down in, you know, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas, they deal with things we don't have to deal with up here. And it makes it hard.

But you know, it was a big issue and he latched on early to that issue and we should have been stronger earlier on those issues. And you know, when the White House came out, Bidenomics, nobody even knew what that meant. I didn't know what it meant. And I follow this stuff every single day. Talk about the price of eggs and gas and milk. What do you think about Tim Walsh being out there saying, um, we got to lean more into, uh, woke policies

and where we were? I mean, look, I found him to be a very compelling, uh, persona when they picked him. Yeah. Midwesterly, you know, meat and potato be a very compelling persona when they picked him. Yeah. Midwestern. And I love the whole football coach. Yeah. I really think that I honestly believe that that guy exists and has been shit on in America for about seven years.

And it doesn't matter if he's an Italian for Queens or a white guy from Ohio or whatever he is from California or whatever he is from the South, they are the same guy. They are guys who are worried, who are protectors, and who don't want their traits that make them men to be seen as deficits. And that's the guy who's up for grabs. And they happen to be the demographic group who doing the worst. Younger men who are trying to figure out who to be

and how to be, are getting crushed by the left and crushed by the country. And whoever wins them, I think wins the next cycle. Yeah. And just talk to them in the comments and stuff they care about, Chris. They all want, they want high-paying job. They want great quality of life.

And that's why I always say for president, I always like governors, because things that affect people every single day. It's your education. It's the world. You're real executives. Real executives. Do you think your party gets what you get, though, right now? Because when I see Bernie and AOC running around, I see MAGA redux.

I see that you guys are making, the Democrats are making a classic mistake, which is to try to be what beat you. And that doesn't really work well in politics, doesn't really work well in sports, and really doesn't work well in fighting. If you try to do what got you knocked out, usually you don't address what made you open

to that blow in the first place, which is why you got knocked out. It wasn't what they did, it, usually you don't address what made you open to that blow in the first place, which is why you got knocked out. It wasn't what they did, it was what you did. So when I see them running around and how they're talking, it seems like doubling down on what makes them unpopular, not popular. Well, or you're talking to the people whom you've already got. You know, you're talking to your base We win elections by expanding the base and I know the people former you get ahead by you know Bringing in other people and expanding the base and that's key, but they want Democrats to fight You know, I grew up in Syracuse. I just went on YMCA every Saturday and box. I love boxing you hit me

I'm gonna try and hit you back twice as hard. They just, because they, you're fighting for them. You're not fighting for yourself. You're fighting for them. Right. And they wanna see somebody and that's what they like about Trump. Listen, I think it's brilliant

that he went to the Superbowl, UFC championships. Brilliant. I mean, people like sports, people love sports. And he, you know, he's out there, he's got sports figures around him all the time. Going to that young male you're talking about, Chris, they like it. Look at him, he went to the Super Bowl. He's at the UFC Fighting Championship.

He went, saw the kid, get the wrestling award, the national championship. That's good stuff. We need to be doing those kinds of stuff. I love to do it. I always go right throughout the first pitch, you know, and everybody's booing, you know, when you're a politician, gentlemen, when you go throw out the first pitch or oh my God, they just scream at you. All you got to do is laugh. There's nothing else you can do. But you do it. I used to do the big racetrack in Richmond. I would do the Formula One race. When I would do the flag, oh my God, but I showed up.

I think you get credit for showing up. Support comes from Cozy Earth. Listen, recovery is everything, okay? The older you get, the more you need it, all right? You wanna build muscle, you better be sleeping. You wanna have better cardiovascular, you better be sleeping. You wanna lose weight, you better be sleeping. And want to lose weight, you better be sleeping.

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That's CozyEarth.com code Chris. And if you get a post-purchase survey, tell them you heard about Cozy Earth from the Chris Cuomo project. Sanctuary awaits at Cozy Earth. Do you think that your party has the horses? I always believe the message, everybody disagrees with me about this.

I believe that Democrats have to be messaged first and then you find the messenger. But in political media, we like to do it the other way, which is no, no, no, let's find a really cool person to cover and build up and then tear down and then the message will kind of emanate from them. Do you think that you have your message or your messengers? No, not even close yet.

No, and two things. One, Trump's got a huge microphone right now. It is really hard as you know, Chris, you're in this business to break through. It's really hard, but we've got time. I mean, we're a hundred days in or whatever, so we've got plenty of time to coalesce. He's gonna take actions that will give us opportunities

to put out a broad appeal message. We've got plenty of time to do this. I agree with you 100%. It's not the person, we gotta get the message down and then you put it together. I always liked governors, I keep saying that. You know, I tried to run in 20. I went and spent three hours alone with Joe Biden

and he sort of boxed me out. I made the effort. But let me tell you Chris, from just a practical as a governor, you know, when you raise money, you're as a governor, as you know, like your brother, you're raising non-federal money, and you may have a PAC and all that. When you decide to run for the next office, you can't use any of the money that you'd raise to date because presidency is a federal election. Thus, a Senator or a House member, they can accumulate like Bernie and others,

millions, tens of millions of dollars, and they get to use 100% of it. So it's just interesting, most people I learned the hard way. I said, well, God, why didn't I start a federal PAC when I was governor? But you know, there are practical things which actually make it tougher for a governor.

But you know, listen, Bill Clinton did it. We've had a lot of good governors. Reagan was a governor. Clinton was a governor. We've had a lot of governors who have come through, which I think are, you know, I like it. They're executives and they make decisions every single day. Well, you could run in the next cycle. I could. I never closed anything off the table. I mean, because you're really at the height of your powers. You have the, you now have the... And I'm young. Yeah. 18 marathons under my belt. Yeah. Shed. Yeah. I'm down

11 pounds, I've been lifting weights. I feel great, bro. That's exactly right. That's what I'm trying to say is, you know, the idea that, you know, we're talking, I see you as a sage within the party, but one of the reasons that I've been, you know, we're talking, I see you as a sage within the party, but one of the reasons that I've been, you know, chasing you around to have you on is because I don't know that they have better than you. Well, you know, listen, I have a good sense of humor, I have fun, I make fun of myself, I don't take things too seriously. I mean, let's think about this, Chris, they had a New Yorker become governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia. Yeah.

He never had a Yankee before the Commonwealth. Because, you know, just claim talk and, you know, I tried to do it again. 21 was a really tough year. The president was down, Afghanistan was down the low 30s. So I would also make the argument Chris, these elections in this year in Virginia, because of the damage he has done to Virginia, in Maryland and D.C. But we have governors, Lieutenant Governor, Attorney General, our House of Delegates this year. People are so angry with him. He's down to where Biden was, where I was in 21, down in the low 30s. And I think we're going to have a great year here in Virginia. I think we're going to have a great

year up in New Jersey. And then Chris, you know, you know how this works. Oh, the party's back. They won the two big governors. They won the mayor and the other party. You know how quick this moves on. We had to go through this purgatory that we went through and then we'll head into the house races.

And then, you know, things will start to congeal. He's not running again. But I will make this prediction. I think he's gone so extreme on trade policy, on the whole deportation. I mean, people are just terrified of what's going on in this country today, that Trump ultimately will be the end of what he built of the strength of the MAGA movement by the time we get up to 2028. People just earn into it.

Inflation, you've seen the bond prices. It's going the opposite direction of what he promised us. He's not bringing the price of goods down. He just capitulated on China. We went through all this stuff with China, 145. Let's call what it is, Chris. He blinked. He blinked. That's call what it is, Chris. He blinked. He blinked.

That's what it looks like right now. I mean, we're getting spin, but it does seem like China came away from that table pretty happy. Pretty very happy. You bet. You know, they have an ability to go long term. They still own a third of the debt of the United States.

If China tomorrow said, oh, I'm not buying or renewing my bond purchases for the U.S. government, our Treasury bills, we can't have a world of hurt here. So, but he just throws all this stuff out there, willy-nilly, and so he sees where they all fall down. And it's just, you know, I'm upset about how he treated Zelensky in the Oval Office. That was so disrespectful for a president. Why do you like Ukraine so much? Well, I can tell you, you know, my dad was a captain in World War II, my son a captain

of the United States Marine Corps. I love our military. Here was a democratically elected country that was invaded by a dictator, Putin. And I've met with the troops on the front lines, what he has done over there decimated the country of Ukraine. I love free countries who fight for their democracy, fight for their liberty. Why did you go over to the war zone though?

You know me, Chris, if I want to see something, I want to see it. So, you know, they had a little five mile outside Kiev, no Americans can go. I teamed up with some folks and said, I'd love to go to the front line and meet the commanders on the front line. And I did. And I spent a couple days up there. This was back in April

of 2023, in the beginning of the war. So I got a lot of good information out of there. I came back and told everybody I knew the things were happening on the front lines. But listen, Chris, we're either a superpower or we're not. And if you think for one second, I mean, listen, cute one at all Ukraine, I give the Ukrainians credit, they landed paratrooped into Kiev, he pushed them all out. They now control about 20% of the country. He's that stopping at Ukraine, you think of these other countries

and Lithuania and Poland, he wants to get the grand old Russia back, the old band back together. And if we don't stop him here, he will continually and cost us a lot more money and a lot more aggravation with Europe if we don't stop him here. So I happen to come from a place that, and listen, we should have been a lot tougher. We should have given a long-range missiles. I get Britain,

they sent their storm weapons in long, we should have done that earlier and really pushed back on Russia. But listen, they attacked a freely elected democratic country and have killed all these people. And, you know, I'm involved in this thing called Ukraine saves. It goes, all of these children who've lost their parents and thousands of children, Chris, have been taken out of Ukraine, you know, to Russia to be re indoctrinated. They sent them to these camps. And I'm talking thousands of kids and Ukraine saved, I think they brought about 400 kids back

to their families back in Ukraine, but it's an atrocity that's going on over there. No other way to look at it. Well, I gotta tell you, Governor McCall, if it's great to get your head on the party, but the big takeaway for me is that you still got your head in the game. In the game, fighting tougher than ever, baby. Ready to go.

Because I'm gonna be calling on you early and often to come in as a state of play because I think that you're a leader. You have been and you should be and will be. So Gov, thanks for being with us. Thanks, brother. You're the best. It's not just that he's smart and experienced and been there. It's that he understands the ambition and I think has the drive. I believe Governor Terry McAuliffe is going to be on the

short list of people that you start talking about a couple years from now to be president of the United States. Does that work for you or against you? Let me know, my friends. Thank you for subscribing and following here The Chris Cuomo Project. Thank you for checking me out on NewsNation, 8P and 11P every weekday night.

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