The Chris Cuomo Project - Frank Luntz Breaks Down What the Harris-Trump Debate Tells Us About Leadership

Episode Date: September 17, 2024

Pollster and political analyst Dr. Frank Luntz (Host, “America Speaks with Dr. Frank Luntz,” and American Politics Senior Fellow, United States Military Academy West Point) joins Chris Cuomo for a candid conversation about the state of American politics. Using the recent Harris-Trump debate as a backdrop, Luntz delves into the troubling gap between the low expectations we have for political leaders and the higher standards we apply in other areas of life. Drawing from his time at West Point, he also reflects on the academy’s commitment to integrity and discipline, offering it as a model for restoring leadership and accountability in America. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Join Chris Ad-Free On Substack: http://thechriscuomoproject.substack.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

the game. to wager Ontario only gambling problem call connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BedMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Frank Luntz is a legend when it comes to focus groups and political polling. He has been winning elections for Republicans for a generation. You are about to hear a conversation the likes of which you may never hear again. I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. It is rare that people drop the veil and talk about what really motivates them, where they are, and why they do what they do, right? Especially in politics. Very rare. It's all artifice. It's all pretense.

It's all about advantage. It's all about saying about what you have to say to win, right? And that's what politicians do. They don't speak the way the rest of us do. You are about to hear one of the most, okay, fearsome political animals in the business. Frank Lunt's running a campaign where he's running the messaging against you, you got a problem. But now, Frank Luntz does what he does best for very different reasons. And you are about to hear a heavy, heavy conversation with Frank Luntz, now a professor at West Point, talking about what matters in America, what matters in life, why we are where we are

and what we do, what we do. I'm talking deep, deep talk, okay? Way deeper than politics, but it relates to our politics. This is a conversation I have never heard Frank engage in before, and I have been following him for about 30 years. Frank Luntz, legendary pollster, political analyst, telling you the truth. When you look at what we're living through with the debate, the election, how do you explain the disconnect from what is okay on that debate stage, what is okay in the election,

and the absolute anathema that that is to what we want in every other aspect of our life. How do you explain the disconnect between what we collectively decide is okay in the debate we just saw, the election we're living, and every other relationship and dynamic we allow in our lives.

It's easy. We have so low expectations for the people who lead us that we're willing to accept anything. We demand more from our teachers. We demand more from the high school soccer coach than we do the President of the United States. We will not permit the high school soccer coach than we do the President of the United States. We will not permit the high school soccer coach to talk to our kids the way we accept it from the President. We would not permit

the morality of the President in terms of what comes into our life. And until we demand more, we will get less. And that is what makes this institution, West Point, so special, is that they demand 100% of the time. And if we only raised our expectations, raised the bar, and said enough with this, then we would get what we deserve. But who does that? Who creates that kind of change? I mean, look at the reactions to the debate.

Nobody won. First of all, I don't agree with that. But even if you want to agree with that premise, why is it? It's because the value in our two-party system is just advantage. It's just which one is worse. Who makes it anything other than that? We do by insisting that they answer our questions. We do by saying, you can't behave that way.

We do by accepting just how pathetic it's become. But why is it OK for Republicans who are the party of character counts, how do you explain them picking a guy who doesn't give a shit about character, and you have an equal opposite on the other side? I don't see the parties as equal, but it doesn't matter, the game they play is the same.

And we don't allow it anywhere in our lives elsewhere. You wouldn't let someone paint your house on the same basis of candor and of character that you do in the debate that we just watched. But it doesn't change as obvious as the disconnect is from the rest of our lives. Why? It can't just be low expectations.

It's low expectations and the idea that it doesn't really matter. Things that matter, we focus on. People that matter, we talk to. Those that we don't really care about, we allow to load in and out of our lives. You know what I'm about to say. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. Yeah. And that's why the combination of low expectations

and high indifference has created the situation that we now live in. But that may be true with the growing, the fastest growing part of the electorate, which is the independents who don't want to be part of the parties. But how do you square that with dealing with the rabid nature of the fringe, which dominates the dialogue, the Tucker Carlson fans, you know, the people who chase after you on social

media? They're not indifferent. No, and that's an issue of prioritization. I used to ask Christian conservatives how they could support Trump when he speaks heartily, when his behavior is unforgivable and he's been an embarrassment for years now and the answer is he's fighting for us. He's trying to protect our he may not represent them but he is trying to protect our values and the other side is trying to

take them away so that's why we are the enemy of our enemies our friend and we decide what really matters in life we you and I may not agree with that philosophy if you vote for the lesser two evils you're still voting for evil but for millions of Americans they have to make a choice and the choice they make they're willing to live with. Do you think that debate mattered? Yes, I do. Me too.

I think I do. I think that Trump had stopped falling. I think that Harris had stopped gaining. And I think this will completely reverse that trend. If he had won this debate, I think he would have won the election. I think it will completely reverse that trend. If he had won this debate, I think he would have won the election. I think it's that important. If he won, so what happened?

So this is the second major opportunity that shocked me. After he got shot in the head, I thought at the RNC, he was gonna stand up and say what, I believe every other warm blooded human would have done, which is, this has got to stop, okay? I'm as angry about what's happening in this country as anybody, but we cannot shoot at people we disagree with. And I know I've been part of it, and now I'm going to be part of what comes next. And he did it for 10 minutes, and then something happened.

And the same thing happened in the debate. First 10 minutes, he's ignoring her, she doesn't have any answers, shit's a mess, she helped make it a mess, this is a joke, let me fix it. And then all of a sudden, Haitians are eating dogs. And what happens? How does he blow these opportunities? Because he doesn't hear them. He doesn't see them.

You're judging him based on your own characteristics. You're judging him based on what's inside of you. You have to see him for what he is and judge him for his experiences, his character, and what he's all about. And this is one of the reasons why I've been able to survive in my business for as long as I have. I do have opinions. I do react to it and it does bother me. But in the moment, I don't know how,

but I'm able to see things that others don't see and hear things that others don't hear. I think it's why I'm so, I am angry. I think it's why I'm so I am angry. I think it's why I've gotten sick. I think it's not a good thing. We just we have to listen to people better. We have to, if there's something that bothers us, we have to be willing to address it in a way that will be heard. Because in the end, so much of this anger, so much of this divisiveness, this toxicity, is because we've been ignored and forgotten

and worse of all of them betrayed. And we just wanna get even. And we need to find leaders in the political world that don't appeal to our worst instincts, but instead seek to trigger us in the most positive way. That was John McCain saying that Barack Obama isn't a Muslim. That was George W. Bush seeking to save the African continent from AIDS. It's people stepping out of their comfort zone to make a difference for others who they won't benefit from,

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Look, I think it's great. I think it's a great experience. You know, look, the fundamental difference between what you guys are learning as a function of indoctrination there and politics is the basic difference between theory and practice. What something can be versus what it's allowed to be. And that dynamic is most easily controlled in the military because of forced conformity, right? You all have to be on a certain page about certain things. And that is not at play in the rest of society. And people are allowed to do things

that would never be allowed in the military. The level of selfishness, the level of deception, the level of playing to things that aren't really true that only benefits some over others. Yes, that can all play out and there's plenty of politics in the military, I understand, but not like in the rest of society. So you always have to keep in mind

that what you're learning most, okay, other than to keep yourself and the people in your charge safe, if God forbid you're in a situation of risk, is it doesn't matter what you're charged safe, if God forbid you're in a situation of risk, is it doesn't matter what you're taught, it's what you decide to be about. And the failure of our politics is that we've made it okay to be about something way less than what the standard should be. And that's our hope of why we want military background guys as our leaders is because we're hoping that you bring some of a commitment to something bigger than yourself back where it belongs, which

is in leadership. Can we include this in the podcast? Yeah, we can include it, Frank. No, actually, literally. Like, you can do magic editing, do some work, because this is why I do what I do. I don't care about the election. I don't even want to talk to me about the debates. That is so much less important than what happens at this institution. I agree about both. I agree that what happens at the institution is important because of what it means to what happens in the other aspects of society.

I've never saw it. Maybe one of the reasons that I couldn't commit to it myself, other than just character deficiency, was I looked at it in two linear away or one-dimensional away as, do I want to go to a place to learn how to lead people into war and killing the enemy and conquest. And that is true and that is necessary and that is real, but there's so many applications of being a warrior.

And we've learned that guys like you and me, we've learned it as a function of context, right? Jihad means one thing to people, but as a concept, it's really about a fight for within yourself for virtue. It's been perverted into a fight against infidels. That's what humans do. They take a principle, they take a cause, and they can pervert it.

And we see that. You can be a warrior, or you can be what Paulo Coelho calls a warrior of the light, where what you do is fight for virtue, and truth, and compassion. So what I believe is in the value of West Point, and I've always believed this, I've been there many, many times,

and not just to watch football games, is you're teaching people to tap into the best part of themselves. And the best part of humanity is interdependence and interconnectedness. And- So how far from here do you live? Well, I lived in Albany and now I live in East Hampton

because I had to leave New York City because your boy Trump, who had all his people getting in my face all the time and I was gonna kill somebody. So I had to move my family out East. So now we live out there. Thank God, happy wife, happy life. She's from out there.

So it's all okay. But you know. I want this conversation. I want, I don't want a speech and I don't want Q&A. What you're talking about is a discussion. And this, I know you're different. This is one of the reasons why I want to get to know you. Because you look at things differently.

And I want this conversation to happen with them. And I want it to be a conversation. And I need to know what I have to do to get you to come up here. And you know by being here that you will leave a much happier, a much more fulfilled person than when you got here? Because they're so remarkable. I'm happy to come up there and do whatever you want me to do. There's zero chance that

anything will make me happy. But that is about my own journey. But I'm happy to come up there. I don't do that often, Frank, only because I believe there are better people to do it. But if you want me to do it, I'll do it. I am not the speechifying Cuomo. I do not accept invitations and not just because I don't get them anymore. I definitely am only just starting to get them again. I definitely didn't get them for years

after I got shit canned, but I was okay with that because it gets bothersome to have to say no all the time because people think I'm just making other choices, but I never spoke anywhere. So I'd be happy to come up and talk to the guys or talk with the guys. Yes, and then you should know that I don't,

I'm careful about who I bring in front of them because I do believe it matters. I'm careful about who I bring in front of them because I do believe it matters. I'm careful to keep it balanced because it's so essential that they hear every perspective. The cool thing about up here is that there's no woke. There's no performance. There's no acting a certain way because you're trying to look good to the administration or to your fellow students, there is an honesty here that is so refreshing

and there's a level of trust and candor that I don't get anyplace else. I trust these guys. I love it. The answer is yes, Frank. Okay, we'll figure out how to do this. So how do I make you happy? How do you make me happy? Yes.

I wish I had an answer to that. But let's have this let's have this conversation. You can have this tape. But also I will I'll come up there. The answer is yes. And I want to talk about what's happening as a function of this broader dynamic. I'm happy to have the conversation that way because I think there's direct application. I mean, there's a reason that we get sideways with Walls' service record. Why do we fuck with Walls' service record?

Because service matters and the competition knows that regular Americans perceive value in it. So of course they attack it. But let me, can I offer a slight alternative because the two cadets are still here. Yeah. The thing that I so cherish about this relationship is that I trust you completely, that integrity matters. And in this world, it is so easy to tell a lie or to stretch the truth. It is so easy to misrepresent.

We have a presidential candidate that actually does it every day and probably in every single speech he gives. And that I trust them that they're going to show up on time. I trust them that they've got my back. I tell them things I never tell anybody, even my closest friends, because the possibility, the enticement to share something secret about some political figure, even my closest friends, I still have to wonder, will they say it? And I know that these cadets are sworn, you cannot lie or cheat or steal.

And now here's the important part, or accept someone who does. It is so ingrained in them that they're not even by the time they get to contact, get to connect with them, it's who they are. It's what they're about. It has nothing to do with some code or model. They have adopted it as how they live. And America would be so much of a greater country if we just had some of the principles and the values that every single day is how West Point operates.

I like it. But I'm all in. And I just believe in that one of them is a kid brother of a cadet that I mentored and this he won every award every honor And he was a nice kid It doesn't happen nice people Don't end up like West Point cadets and goddamn it they do These there I did these are people I would hang out with these are people who was I was a student I have a drink with These are the people I would hire these are the people that I would hang out with. These are people who, if I was a student, I have a drink with.

These are the people I would hire. These are the people that I would trust. I should not acknowledge this, but I got on a helicopter. They flew me over the stadium. I'm not supposed to do this. I was specifically told, do not do this. I was able to talk my way onto it,

and I felt secure. No doors on the helicopter, no windows on the helicopter, it's completely open. And I was only afraid for a few minutes because I trusted the guys next to me and in front of me and behind me. Do you know what it's like after going through decades of shit in the political world to find people you can completely trust. It's so wonderful and I've also learned not to cry when I talk about it, but it's so emotional for me just how wonderful they are. Frank, what has changed in your life in the last

few years for you? I had a stroke in the middle of teaching in New Hampshire during the 2020 campaign. My body went numb. I thought I was having a heart attack. They took me out of the classroom. I had to be in the hospital for a week. And then the damn thing happened again to me

here at West Point 16 weeks ago, to me here at West Point 16 weeks ago, where I'm absolutely projectiling all over the room, not understanding what's going on in my head and realizing that the ambulance doesn't get there really quickly, I can't get up, I cannot move, and I'm just vomiting and vomiting and vomiting. So not only does it happen once, but it happened twice. Now here's the deal, because this is the good part. If you don't die, there's nothing that's

going to kill you. And people wonder why I've been so public, so challenging. In some cases, in many cases, of people who I once nominally supported. I get to tell the truth without hesitation, without limitation, and it's so freeing. And I know you've been through this. And this is another reason why I told your network, I'm not doing a show until you and I connect. Because it's remarkable.

And I've seen you do this specifically with Stephen A Smith. And I'm going to do something with him this afternoon. Your programs with him, your interviews are brilliant because neither of you are filter and I've joined the unfiltered club and I wish I'd done this before. And I take everything seriously. I don't laugh as much. I don't have, I don't enjoy life as much because I make sure that every minute of life counts.

I'm literally thinking, is this where I want to be? Is this who I want to be talking to? Is this what I want to be saying? And it's not like stop. Why isn't that enjoyable? Uh, because it's, it's just a tremendous responsibility to it. And a lot of people will come after you. Tucker Carlson, more than anyone else really caused me damage in 2021.

When he called me a trader, call me hypocrites because I started to tell the truth after the stroke. And it was so bad, they actually went to London for a few weeks that became a couple months. Here's the good news. It's actually awesome to leave the country. London is a great city. I get a chance to look at America

from someone else's eyes. And as a pollster and a focus group moderator, I was learning every day and I suddenly realized, oh my God, we are so poisonous Americans who used to be the kindest gentlest, most awesome country. I have something back. This is, I believe in America. I'll show you my phone and I'm trying to get a place right now with a cover of

West Point, but I told people, this where I was going. Because guess what? The people of the UK have become nicer than the people of the US. How could Tucker Carlson affect you with the relationships that matter when everybody knows that he is unserious in his thinking and his adaptations of what to promote? Well, first off, I'd hired his brother. I knew his father, so I know the family, which limits what I can say

because I'm not here to hurt anybody else. Second is that he is an incredible debater. I give him credit for this. And I'm not gonna have an argument with him on his show. So he gets a chance to have a free reign because most people who go up against him lose. Third is that he's willing to, to really go low and you have to be willing to do that. And I'm not, that's not the kind of politics I do.

And then fourth, he has a network online that is incredibly engaged and powerful. And when he starts yelling at someone, you suddenly start to get emails and texts. People you never met before will come up to you in a public place and dress you down, insult you, yell at you, swear at you, even threaten you. Now, Frank, I'm laughing not because of what you're saying. I feel for you. I really, I do. You know that that motherfucker

used to come after me for sport, right? And now people don't come up to me in person the same way because I'm a vanilla gorilla and all I do is fight train. So it is, you know, so sometimes at least men will take a pass on doing some of the uglier stuff in person. But the reason I sat down to talk with that guy was we had the same lawyer. And, you know, we're in fairly regular contact,

I mean, very arm's length. I don't respect what he's about, but I made the decision that I wasn't gonna allow that to live rent free in my head and have me waste energy disliking him. It's not worth it to me. And when I sat down and talked to the guy, he called me like a week later and he was

like, you know, my wife said after the interview, I knew there was something weird because everybody in there seemed to like you so much. And it was only until because I never watched it. And then only later did my wife say, you know, you really came off like a jackass in a lot of that interview. And that was absolutely my intention. The idea that he's a good debater is almost laughable to me. That was easy.

He is about nothing serious. So yes, he plays the demagoguery and other things that get a lot of mouth breathers agitated. I just don't see why you would ever value them as a commodity. I mean, I've always believed in you as a resource, not because I liked or agreed with the politics that were motivating you, but I'm talking about way back in the Kelly Ann Fitzpatrick days of the mid 90s, when I became familiar with you, it was that you are a serious person.

I may like, I may not like, I may appreciate, I may not appreciate, but this is a serious person. That cat is not a serious person. That's the only reason I'm surprised. Well, he has got serious supporters and my job is to listen. My job is to take stuff in no matter whether I agree with it or not. I'm supposed to be a sounding board and in a sense of vacuum cleaner. I'm trying to teach my cadets to be able to do this, to hear everyone's point of view and then process it. So I'm hearing from hundreds of people

who he's activated to hate me and it just becomes overwhelming. Cause in the end I personalize it and in the end it does have an impact on me. When I do focus groups, it started to happen in 2016 where it was so upsetting to me that I had to go out and walk around the block. I had to go out and have a meal after my sessions because people become so mean to each other.

If this goes well enough, the next time we do this, I'll show you a couple bits and pieces of focus groups that never aired. And they never aired because they were so horrific that the network said, there's too much yelling here. It'll upset the viewers. This does not, we'll pay you for doing it, but this is not something that we wanna share with the American people.

Don't you think that that's been our mistake? Like I remember, I remember the first manifestation of this was when, so I'm in Iraq And so I'm in Iraq and I realize that what everybody does when you go there is that there are a lot more of us dying than you know. And I'm like, oh, we got to show these dead troops. And you get hit with this really, really specious argument of you can't show the dead troops for the following reasons. One, we haven't alerted the families yet. Two, it undermines the confidence in the troops and it hurts the American collective conscience.

And I have decided that the first one is true, but immaterial. Every man and woman has made a choice to serve. And their families have also made that choice. And I have no doubt that what matters most to a service member and their family is the truth of their purpose. And the idea that it's the family that doesn't want you to know that they died, given their

life to this situation, is wholly and profoundly untrue. And then the rest of it was propaganda. And I believe we keep making the same mistake, Frank, that we should show the dead, we should show the reality, we should show the ugly so that you know that better ideas can win. But the issue is not to not show that. The issue was a husband, a wife, a parent, a child should not learn of this on TV or the newspaper.

They should be informed of the loss of the passing of the death, be informed in the loss of the passing of the death, be informed in a civil and respectful manner, and to open up the New York Times and suddenly read that your child's been killed by a roadside bomb. That's 100% true, but it's also not accurate, right? Because there's always time. Nobody's ever saying, I'm gonna show it right now.

It's, they don't let you show it at all, Frank. You will not find a lot of troops and we take the color out of it. We take the color out of the dead at mass shootings. And it's, in my opinion, in the age of transparency, which I believe is what we're just entering now, for instance, thank God I'm at News Nation because I'd get fired for saying this anywhere else.

I mean, not on the podcast, but Frank, the rule used to be, and if the guys are in the room, they should know this also. It used to be, I'm not gonna tell you what I think of Frank Luntz, because that will help you believe that I'm being fair about Frank Luntz, right? Because there is no objectivity,

there's only objectivity in things that are completely quantifiable. Two plus two is always fucking four, okay? That's all it's ever gonna be, you know, unless you're that weird actor who doesn't believe in math, that's all it's ever gonna be. You know, unless you're that weird actor who doesn't believe in math, that's what it's always gonna be. Everything else is subjective.

So the goal is not objectivity, it's fairness. And it used to be, you think I'm being fair because I'm not telling you anything about Frank. But with the advent of Vietnam and the collective recognition that government can lie to you, and everything that has followed, which has been a realization or deterioration or whatever now and you wanna cause it to be,

I believe it is now flipped. Where in order for people to believe that I am being fair, I have to say, look, I am absolutely in the thrall of Frank Luntz, not because he has an uncanny way of being right about what proposition he's advancing, but I just love why he does it. Now that doesn't mean that I think he's right about what's going to happen in this race. And that's why I'm about to tear him up right now. I believe that that is the new normal

that they have to know where I'm coming from on it. I have to tell them I'm a gun owner and I can't shoot enough Canada geese, okay? I kill those fucking things every chance I get. They shit all over my lawn. My dogs eat it. And then they throw up and they ruin my plants. So I don't care if migrants are eating them. Good, come to my house.

I think you have to say that now. And I believe that that's true on everything. I want you to see the dead kids. I want you to see all of it because I think it will resensitize, not desensitize. You've been remarkable on Israel since October 7th, just remarkable. You must know that your commentaries are sent all over the web, that people do not know that I follow you and I'll get, I've probably received a dozen of your commentaries not knowing that I know who you are and I

know what you're about. But the Israeli government and you know this too, made a decision that it's not going to show that 45 minute tape taken by Hamas of the most gruesome murders taken by them on the day. No one doubts their authenticity. No one doubts the brutality of it. I was supposed to look at it and decide what segments should be used, should be communicated. And then they asked me to do a test of it with voters, with people of higher education, higher incomes. I watched exactly 12 seconds before I said to my office, shut it off. Shut

it off now. Break the computer if you have to. All I saw was a single murder. They were killing this guy with a hoe, trying to sever his throat. All I got to see, and I was sick to my stomach. I believe, and you're going to challenge me that there's some things that we don't need to see to know how brutal they are. There are some things in life where, where we can never unsee it. We can never unthink it and that it is not necessary. And I'll personalize this for you. I never saw my parents passed away.

I only wanted to have in my head the memory of them alive. And I believe that, and I know that they're not here anymore. I don't have to get proof by looking to the casket. I think we really need, and this is why I appreciate you so much, I think we need to rethink where we are as a society, where AI is taking us in social media, of what is appropriate and what isn't, of what is true telling and even what is truth itself. Then we need to have this conversation because in the end,

your definition of mind are becoming so different and that we don't know common ground. And I want this conversation to happen. I would love it if you just said to your bosses, look, we're going to do a show where there's nothing topical for right now, but we're going to consider where we are as a country. We're going to consider our society. We're going to really re-examine what is right and wrong and what we should be promoting and where we should be silent.

I think that would help us so much. This is a conversation you can have. This is a conversation that nobody's happening right now. Support for the Chris Cuomo project comes from Shopify. Now let me tell you something about what I've learned about business. Okay, very often when it comes to success in Selling it is often not just about the business doing the work to commit to a product Market it and get it to consumers in a way that they want it

It's who is helping them do that the business behind is helping them do that. The business behind the business. When you look at things that are selling through the roof and Shopify, who I'm talking about, works with Allo, Allbirds, Skims, of course, all those names, you think brand, you think product, very cool, very cool. But what about how they maximized their ability

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Support for the Chris Cuomo project comes from GetMainLobster.com. Okay, here's the dilly, all right? Did you know that lobster used to be what they fed prisoners? Can you believe that? Talk about crime doesn't pay. And now it's such a precious commodity.

I love lobster. I'll tell you what, I love lobster so much that I don't care about all the cracking and shelling and boiling and stink and everything that goes along with it. And then one day I heard about getmainlobster.com and all of the hassle and my concerns about sourcing and quality and price were poof, gone. Getmainlobster.com gives me what I want most. Do me a favor, head over to GetMainLobster.com.

You do it, you get 15% off every order plus free shipping. Just use my promo code, CCP. That's GetMain, M-A-I-N-E, Lobster.com. Use the code CCP and get 15% plus free shipping. Frank, you know, I often say to my kids, don't be me. I spent a lot of my life rejecting things and it was a mistake.

All cliches are true. All cliches apply. And there is a familiarity to life, and there is an obviousness. And I spent so much of my life fighting it, one reason or another. And eventually, I had everything that I thought mattered taken anyway. And not like in Jobian fashion, I always had my health, I always had people who loved me and cared about me, I was never fucking broke.

So, it's... but all pain is personal. And I will never be what I was at CNN again. I will never be at the most magnetic platform for media in the world and the number one platform with the most reach and every dialogue in America at some point, if I choose to, would flow through me. That's never gonna happen again.

How do you get over that? So look, the answer to the question of why do you do it? Well, why not? I have nothing to protect. There's no reason for me not to do it. It's the only reason that I still do the job is that I think I can help. And it doesn't matter that, you know, I'm still carrying grievance, right? Still in litigation with CNN, right? Because I hate CNN. I do not hate

CNN. I do not hate CNN. I are now there are now four more cadets that are standing here. Do you recognize his voice? This is I'm doing a podcast as we speak with Chris Cuomo Um, okay. Come here. Take a look. Yeah, you can stand stand behind Frank pay attention. So You're not gonna stay but say you can come in and you can come out whenever you want. Hello fellas The look it's young sir. I know I was good. How you doing fellas? we're talking about like why Frank and I have decided to do things that are seen as Different within the space that we occupy and as you may or may not know I was at CNN and I got shit canned

for Allegedly lying about the extent to which I helped my brother. That was never true. It is demonstrably false and I'm in litigation about it. But the point is, I love CNN. People are unfair to CNN. CNN matters. There are good men and women there who I still care about

and I hate that my relationship with them was fractured because of this. And the reality is still, I'll never get that back. I'll never be there, I'll never be what I was. So the question for me then became- How do you live that, but hold on. Because now it's going your direction, now I'm gonna be the guy. How do you live that?? Hold on. Because now it's going your direction. Now I'm going to be the guy.

How do you live that? You're a young guy. You got a family. You got you got more of your life ahead of you than you have behind you. And yet you're saying that you're never going to be the same. How do you get yourself right about

that so you can get up every day and go to work every day and do the stuff that you do and appear on TV when you say that you'll never be the way it was back then. I don't know how to do that. Listen, the only constant in life is change. All cliches apply, Frank. And just because I'll never be that again

doesn't mean that I'm nothing. And you control certain things and you don't. I have a blessing in my personality. I believe very strongly in the power of choice and philosophy. And I believe in philosophy more than I believe in anything else. I am not a religious person.

I am not a spiritual person. I choose to have faith as an extension of my belief in philosophy. And there's what I control, and there's what I don't control. I got shit-canned. I did not control that. What I do control is how I react to that.

I got a family. I am not a young man. I am 54. My best physical years are behind me. I was a great athlete. I was a- How much can you lift? How much can you... I'm looking at you right now. I can lift whatever I need to. Okay, Frank, don't worry about it. What I'm saying is... I wish 20, 30 years ago I looked like you. You have made...

Frank, you are not my standard. Don't laugh at him. What I'm saying is we all have a choice, okay? Shit happens in your life. You often have no control. What you always have control over is what you do. I have had so many tremendous failures in my life on every level that matters to me. And there have always been people in my life, Frank, including even my therapist,

who's like a life coach for me, who will tell me that I'm wrong to see the failures the way I do. And guess what? I don't give a shit what they say because the only thing that matters is how you feel about you. And- But you still pay that person. You still pay that person. I absolutely, I pay him a shit ton. I call him 440.

That's what he is an hour. I refer to him as 440. The people in my life know him as 440. What I'm saying is- I just for the record guys, I charge a lot more than Chris Cuomo's therapist. That's why I'm not using you. So my point is this,

the boys in the room are gonna deal with shit where it doesn't go their way. It's gonna go sideways. They're gonna have very little control over it. It's gonna happen in their love life. It's gonna happen in the relationships that matter to them. It's gonna happen in the dynamics in theater. It's gonna happen in their love life. It's gonna happen in the relationships that matter to them. It's gonna happen in the dynamics in theater. It's gonna happen in the dynamics in the classroom.

It's gonna happen everywhere. And they were always going to be faced with the same proposition. And I love Jaco Willinick, who talks about this, where he says, whatever happens, you have the choice to say good. Well, you didn't choice to say, good. Well, you didn't get the promotion, good. Now I can figure out how and do something about it.

Well, she's not going with you, she's going with him, good. Now I can figure out how I can find somebody better to go with. You failed the test, good. Now I'm gonna study my ass off and I'm gonna prove that I'm better than this grade. That's your choice, not an easy choice to make. And in my own life, I fucked up my marriage, how?

Yeah, here's how, own it, now what? I fucked up this friendship, I fucked up my job, I fucked up my health, I fucked up everything, my profession, why, how, what do you do with it? That's the choice that I've made in my life. Now, it does not insulate me from further fuck-ups. They still happen with stunning frequency. But every time I have a choice, and I know that, and that's what sustains me is if I look back at the failures, I never get to a different place.

Okay, I got a question for you based on this. So I don't know these cadets that well. I've met them before. I took one of them on a trip to Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, D.C. It was to discover American heritage. But most of them I don't know well. I'm now protective of them. I may give them crap.

I may challenge them in the classroom. But I want nothing to happen to them. And God help me and help them if they're ever in a situation that they're being trained for that they actually would seek out how do I best prepare them and protect them so that they don't have to go through the same mistakes that you and I have gone through how would you answer that well I don't believe that you can protect people from life. And what you can definitely do is what you are doing,

which is share your experience. And you have to really help people connect to the familiarity of circumstance and the dynamic that leads to where you don't want them to go. And that's not easy, you know. I've spent a lot of my life around people struggling with addiction and in recovery, and I've spent a lot of time working with addicts, and I have a lot of them in my life. And I think the most basic truth

that you can give to somebody is the requirement of constancy and consistency in whatever you want to go well in your life. That nothing in your life that matters ever benefits from a part-time pursuit. It doesn't matter what you're talking about. It can be the easiest thing in the world, what you put in your face, okay?

We struggle so mightily with weight in our society, and it is the easiest thing until you remember what it really is, which is how it's connected to how you feel overall about yourself. And that is the greatest truth. Everything you want to go well in your life is marginally in your control, and to the extent that it is at all, will only benefit from constancy and consistency. You want me to be your friend?

You be a fucking friend. 24, seven, 365. And when you're not, you own it. And when you are, you make sure I appreciate it. You wanna be a good husband? Do that shit 24-7, 365. If it feels like it's going sideways, it is going sideways.

You want to be good to the people in your charge? Focus on it consistently and constantly. Nothing else works. And we struggle with that. We want part-time occupation. We want part-time persistence. We want part-time persistence. We want part-time grind. You're gonna get part-time results.

And that's to the extent that you control anything at all. And that's what reinforces to me the need for it. You know, when I got up this morning, I got all kinds of bad shit going on if I choose to look at it that way. And I was tired. I worked late last night. I know nobody's watching.

That's depressing. The debate was depressing. Everything's depressing. I get up, I did not want to work out. I didn't, I didn't wanna do it. I gave myself a hundred reasons why not today. I'm still getting off the time change from dropping our son off in Scotland to college.

Last night was long. I got long COVID. I got to be careful. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know what I did? I went full Goggins. I fucking got the fuck up out of bed, went outside, started walking

until I felt like I could jog. And then I jogged and I kept stopping and doing pushups and jumping squats until I was a sweaty mess and I came back home. Because that is the only way to get to what I think matters, which is putting in the effort consistently and constantly. And that's the only way to do it. Now, I'm not saying it works.

It only works if you do it. And I fall short all the time. And that's going to happen too. But you have a choice each and every time. The secret to life is not hard. The application of the secret to life is what is hard. And remember what discipline means. Discipline does not mean to punish. Discipline comes from the word disciple,

which means to follow. And you are being given the gift of it being made simple and obvious for you of what to follow. You're just lucky that as Frank says, it's good shit that you're being told to follow. A lot of people are given bad shit or marginal shit, and they follow that and that's a problem.

So that is being made easier for you. It's harder the rest of your life, the farther you get away from the point and where you gotta make choices for yourself and you're in different value systems and different circles of influence that don't appreciate the same things or reward

different things, that's when it gets hard. And that's when you have to circle back to the Shakespearean reality of you better tap into yourself and you better be true to yourself because everything else is going to fall away. And that is absolutely what life teaches you. This is a perfect lesson for you all. Chris, I want to thank you for appearing on my podcast. This has been a great episode for me. And I wanna thank, I want you to have a great day.

And it's like, I feel like I'm in charge. Frank, I appreciate your time. I love when you come on the show. And I love the evolution. And I love what it seems on the show, and I love the evolution, and I love what it seems to be doing for you, rather than just to you. And any way I can help, I'm a call away. Best year, you're awesome.

Thank you. I told you it was deep. Frank Luntz has given you insight into why we are where we are, what we should be thinking about in terms of where we need to be in politics, yeah, but also as people. I hope you appreciated that as much as I did. I'm Chris Cuomo. Thank you for subscribing and following here to the Chris Cuomo Project.

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You get all of her reckoning. You get the videos of what I'm doing for myself. You get the walk-in talks where I talk about what I've learned about life that I don't practice that well, all for five bucks a month. And we're going to use the money to help people get treatment who can't afford it for long COVID. I mean, come on. What's a better proposition than that? I'll see you on News Nation, weekday nights, 8P and 11P. Eastern, thank you very much for joining us. The problems are real. The solution is within us as individuals and when we come together.

So let's get after it.