The Chris Cuomo Project - Gabrielle Bernstein

Episode Date: July 11, 2023

Gabrielle Bernstein (author, “Happy Days: The Guided Path from Trauma to Profound Freedom and Inner Peace,” and podcast host, “Dear Gabby”) joins Chris Cuomo for an extensive conversation about how all pain is personal, her path to sobriety and the need to view yourself through a lens of compassion, ways to change core belief systems that may be holding you back from personal growth, how taking small actions daily can lead to radical change, why the world only wants to see your authentic truth, and much more. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you take control? How do you make the changes that we all seek? Hey, I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to another edition of The Chris Cuomo Project. You know who knows the answers, if you're willing to put in the work? Our guest today, Gabrielle Bernstein. You know her, big influencer, great podcast, nine big power books, motivational speaker, and with good reason, because I'll tell you what,

she's different. It is a personal deal for me. I relied on several of her books going through my own recent travails and process, and I'm still doing a lot of work that is derivative of where she's from, but I wanted to give you a gift today, and here's the gift. You get a lot of work that is derivative of where she's from. But I wanted to give you a gift today. And here's the gift. You get a car, you get a car. No,

here's the gift, is that instead of me doing the same kind of interview that Bernstein does regularly, when did things change for you? And what was your lowest moment? And how do you know that? And I get it. We like the biographical stuff about people that we see as, you know, representing things. And that's okay. But you can get that a lot of other places. What I want to do is let you see and hear and experience what Gabby puts into practice for others by letting my situation in my life be put through the filter, the blender even, of the different ideas that Gabby has made manifest in her writings about where our negativity is coming from and how to access it and how to shape it and what to do with

it and how to motivate change, not to do with it and how to motivate change, not through just the theoretical, but literally the practical of how it works with me. What do you say? You ready? Am I ready? Let's get after it. The Chris Cuomo Project is supported by Cozy Earth. Why? Because I like their sheets. That's why. A lot of people don't get a good night's sleep for a lot of reasons.

One of the ones that you can control is bedding. One out of three of us report being sleep deprived. Okay, well, what is it? Well, it stresses all kinds of things. But the wrong sheets can make you hot, can make you cold. I'm telling you, I didn't believe it either. But Cozy Earth sheets breathe. And here's what I love about them. Cozy Earth's best-selling sheet is a bamboo set, okay? Temperature regulating. Gets softer with every wash. I'm not kidding you, all right? Now, so if you go to CozyEarth.com and you enter the code,

enter the code Chris, and you can get up to 35% off your first order. CozyEarth.com, and the code is Chris. We don't fake the funk here. And here's the real talk. Over 40 years of age, 52% of us experienced some kind of ED between the ages of 40 and 70. I know it's taboo, it's embarrassing, but it shouldn't be. Thankfully, we now have HIMS, and it's changing the vibe by providing affordable access to ED treatment, and it's all online. HIMS is changing men's health care. Why? Because it's giving you access

to affordable and discreet sexual health treatments. And you do it right from your couch. HIMS provides access to clinically proven generic alternatives to Viagra or Cialis or whatever. And it's up to like 95% cheaper.

And their options as low as two bucks a dose. HIMS has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers. So if ED is getting you down, it's time to pick it up. Start your free online visit today at HIMS.com slash CCP. H-I-M-S dot com slash CCP. And you will get personalized ED treatment options. HIMS dot com slash CCP.

Prescriptions, you need an online consultation with a healthcare provider and they will determine if appropriate. Restrictions apply. You see the website, you'll get details and important safety information. You're going to need a subscription. It's required.

Plus, price is going to vary a subscription. It's required. Plus, the price is going to vary based on product and subscription plan. Once again, it is all about me because I am talking to somebody who I want to talk to for me as much as for the rest of you. Gabby Bernstein, I have to say, love the four books I've worked through so far because I don't do you as a quick read.

These are like manuals. And I love your story. And I love what you put out there. And I love the origination of process with you. So I was so excited that you said yes to coming on the project to discuss what you're about and how people can help themselves. So thank you very, very much for making time. Man. Well, Chris Cuomo, I'm going to say Chris fucking Cuomo. I'm so happy to be with you. And I came on, the first thing I said is I'm your biggest fan. You have such a place in my heart. I remember

seeing you in your basement, first COVID that you had, and just taking us through that journey so fearlessly and bravely and courageously and alone in your basement, but not alone at all because you were in the world. And I just absolutely adore you. I don't know you, but I feel like I'm your best friend and I adore you. And I just think you're so cool. And I'm so happy to be here. And this was like such a big moment for me to be asked to come on this show. First of all, you could easily be my best friend because I am in the business of having very few. So you're going to rock it up the ranks just by wanting it. I'm ready, man. Let's be friends.

So as I was saying before we started, that I was relying on your books as part of a kind of rebuilding and coping and understanding and dealing with the struggle and suffering of my own situation. And one of the things I want to start with, what I want to start with, you know, the struggle and suffering of my own situation. And one of the things I want to start with, what I want to start with is you do such a great job of making people feel okay to embrace the idea that all pain is personal. So even if it's, well, my calves are too fat or I have cancer, you know, the person with the calf issue doesn't want to say anything because like other people have cancer. And, you know, or my case, I lost a job and it was kind of public and that's embarrassing.

But, you know, compared to the things I've seen in my life, this is nothing. Right. And you helped teach me that's a stupid way to look at it because all pain is personal. And if it's bad for you, you've got to deal with it on those terms and figure out how to get through it. So thank you for that message. And where does it come from for you? You know, I think a lot of that perspective comes from early days of my sobriety. I've been sober now almost 18 years.

And I remember saying things to my sponsor and saying things like, you know, I did this, like just horrific things. You're like, when I was using, I did this, or this thing just happened yesterday that I'd be ashamed of. And she'd be like, okay, let's say a prayer. You know, okay, let's check in about that. And that experience of being met so authentically with forgiveness and acceptance and acknowledgement for my life actions, for shameful experiences, for whatever went down, using or not using, really set me on a path of seeing people through that lens. Being able to see myself and be in daily reconditioning through 12 Step and through my spiritual journey and through my personal development and therapy and everything that

I've done for the past nearly two decades, consistency and commitment has allowed me to see myself through that lens of forgiveness and then in effect see that in all. Now, does that mean that I don't have moments where I'm pissed off at people and see them in an angry way? Yes, but it's momentary now because I'm now trained in a therapy called internal family systems therapy, which is, and I'm writing my 10th book about it. And the thesis is this, it's that we have all these young parts of ourselves and we've got the managing parts that are controlling and pushing and achieving. Those are managing young parts that are doing a lot of work to try to feel good enough. And then we've got these extreme firefighter parts of us. We've got

the addict and the rager and the workaholic and the extreme ways that we have to put out the fire of our suffering. But what we all have also within us is self with a capital S, and self is the God within us. It's the Buddha nature. It's the spirit, the soul. And when we start to allow that voice to develop, whether it be through spiritual practice, 12-step recovery, therapy, reading Gabby Bernstein books, whatever it is that takes to get you to that consciousness, you start to open up your awareness to the fact that in any given situation, you have the power to perceive yourself through the lens of compassion. I believe it. And if it were a written test, I would ace it.

The practical exam is kicking our ass on a regular basis, the practice. You know, the 12-step to me, I believe everybody should be following the 12-step process because it really has very little to do with being clean and everything to do with being sober-minded in terms of what choices you make and how you treat people around you and how you decide what to do and what not to do and on what basis and how you live your service. But there is also something in it that's hard to do.

There's a lot of it that's hard to do. But one of the aspects that's helpful is the surrender to a higher power. And you get to fill that in for what you want. Yes, there is a lot of Christian influence in there and its orientation is big. But people make whatever they want of it. So my personal struggle, and I think that this will resonate with a lot of people,

I could forgive you for just about anything. I can forgive anybody, really. I mean, that's been fairly easy for me in my life. I totally get why people do things to me that I think are fucked up or wrong or whatever. I get it. I have no ability to do that with myself. And I keep getting into these loops where people who care about me and want to help me, you know, say, man, you got to let go of that. Or, you know, you got to stop saying that about yourself. And I can't do it. And here's why. I can take everybody else on their own terms because there's stuff I don't know. Like, I love that,

the idea that you play with about, you know, you don't know what you don't see with people, you know, and it can be a lot of stuff there. So take a step back in terms of what you think you understand about them when you're going to judge. But I do know, in my case, I do know everything. So there is no forgiveness. I know everything. You don't know, Gabby. You're forgiving me. You're telling me, you don't know. It's not that I killed

somebody, but I know that I don't deserve it. I did that. I meant to do it. I said that I meant to say it. You know, I made that terrible thing that I can't tell anybody and I did it. So I can't, I can't ever. And I think a lot of people feel that way and it can really leave us spinning and leave us, you know, that's why we cycle. That's why we fall back on the self-medication. We fall back on the extreme behaviors. We fall back on the self-loathing because we keep hitting that. We hit that moment. How do you get past that moment? I want to ask you a question about it. So there's a part of you, obviously, that you're speaking for right now, which is this part of you that can't forgive yourself. Right. It's like all of me.

Okay. And how would you refer to that? Like this inner critic or I just can't forgive myself? Truth. Okay, okay. The basis of forgiveness for everybody else is context. Yes, Gabby said that thing and it hurt me. And she knew that it would hurt me. That's why she said it. The way only the people we care about most can hurt us.

But I get it because of what I did and who she is and our dynamic and what I should have known. I get it. I get it. And I got to let it she is and our dynamic and what I should have known. I get it. I get it. And I got to let it go. I can't do that with myself. Let me ask you this, though. Okay. That pattern of not being able to let it go with yourself, right?

How long has that pattern been around in your life? Long time. Young? Was it young? Probably. And look, it's also a great self-fulfilling prophecy. Sure. It's had a good role, right?

Yeah. It almost guarantees repeat transgression of whatever it is, whatever the more is, whatever you feel, even if it's diet. It's like, you know, I'll never be able to, I can't get over the fact that I ate that Chinese food. It almost guarantees that I'm going to eat Chinese food again, you know, in the foreseeable future. Because it's like, well, why not? And, you know, you and I have both heard this from so many people who are in a cycle of abuse with substances.

It's like, hey, man, why would I stop? You know, I mean, I started again. It's like, I'm just going to do it. You know, this is it, man. This is who I am. I'm just, I'm not, there's no better than this for me. And I'm so disappointed in myself that I might as well, you know, use even more than I was before. I mean, we hear it all the time.

It's a really transferable thing. I was just surprised at how, even though I know it's true, even though I read the books, even though if I took the test, I could tell you right now all the things that you tell people. I just can't practice it for shit. Well, would you like to practice with me for a moment? Sure. Okay. I have time. Okay, great. So. No, that's enough. Next question. No, I'm kidding. What do you want me to do? I'll do this in a really simple way. I'm actually workshopping a method from my new book. And so I'm literally workshopping it right here, right now with Chris Cuomo. So here we go. Good. I'm happy to be a case study. And all I need is your willingness. And maybe we don't get that far with it. Maybe it's

three questions. It's three steps. Really simple, right? The first step is that there's the step we can do to choose to check in with these parts of ourselves. So like we've identified that there's this like inner critic that's not forgiving you, right? I don't know. Judge. I give it, I call it a judge. The judgmental part. Okay. And the first step is to choose to check in. So if I have your buy-in and you're comfortable checking in with that part of you that keeps showing up, then that's the first step. Okay. Oh yeah. You have your choice. Okay. Beautiful. Now the second step is to just take a minute and you can keep your eyes open or not, whatever feels best for you, Chris, to just kind

of sense into the feeling of that judgment and where does it live in your body? Here. Your throat. Yeah. Okay. Kind of like the base. The base of your throat. Good. And does it have like any shape or color, any way that you would describe it? No, I think it's more of a resonance. Okay. You know what I mean? Like for me, it's, um, I think that it's more of kind of like an, an echo that, you know what I mean? Like for me, it's, um, I think that it's more of kind of like an, an echo that, you know what I'm saying? Then like, you know, like, you know, like in the commercials where they, they make depression, the blue blob, Churchill called his depression, the black dog. Um, I don't see it as much as I hear it. Beautiful. Okay. So sort of this

omnipresent. Yeah, always. Beautiful. Really good description. Thank you. Do you know how old that part of you is? Like how long it's been around? I don't. Is there an age? No, I don't ever remember feeling any different than I do, to be honest.

I just remember feeling more, you know, not unusual. I've been diagnosed with PTS a couple of different times, way in the past. So, like, it had nothing to do with, you know, just getting shit canned. But there's more of a numbness this time. It's really, it's hard for me to get worked up really about anything. The numbness is actually another part of you. So, the judgment has been with you for a long time, and it's a younger part, right? The numbness is actually another part of you. So the judgment has been with you for a long time and it's a younger part, right? The numbness is actually another protection mechanism. So if we focus again a

little bit more closely on that judgment, like does it have any age or images? Maybe even if you're comfortable, just if you are comfortable closing your eyes, I don't know if you are, maybe this is not the right time to close your eyes. I am, just you know, don't make any faces at me because I'm going to check the tape later. All right. My eyes are closed. Eyes are closed. Chris, you are such a hero.

This is a lot of courage. This is the most courage. Okay, babe? So just a few more questions, and I'm not going to go too deep. I just want to know, like, are there any images or thoughts or experiences that come to mind when you check in with the judgmental part of you? Yeah. experiences that come to mind when you check in with the judgmental part of you yeah uh the the initial wave is whatever's going on that i'm not happy about how i'm managing a friendship a relationship a dynamic and it's not going right, that's what you get. Like, that's, that's like the initial wave of, yeah, that's right. It is fucked up because that's what you get. Okay. You know, you put yourself in this. And again, I know it always sounds like I'm talking

about my arbitration, but it isn't. It isn't. It's longer. It's been around longer. That's just a symptomatic thing. It's that like, yeah, this is why, yeah, you said that thing, you started that fight, or you did this thing, you hurt that person's feelings, or that happened and you got hurt. Whatever it is, yeah, you did it. And that's what you get. That's what I feel. Beautiful. That's really beautiful and descriptive. Thank you. Now, is there anything else that you know about this part of you that you feel like is coming to your mind or that wants to be heard right now? The overwhelming sense is that it's right. That's the part why, like, even if somebody, you know, it could be Deepak Chopra. It could be the Dalai Lama. Right in our crazy world, I'm actually, you know, I'm the person who actually has those meetings

and conversations. They could tell me that I'm wrong to feel this way. And I will disagree with them. They're wrong. Gabby's wrong on this one. She doesn't know me. She doesn't know the details. Well, however you feel, there's nothing wrong with what you feel and you feel what you need to feel until you no longer feel it. So let's just be where you are. But the next thing I want to do is I want to see if we can create some connection to this part of you by just maybe asking it what it needs right now. I don't ask it out loud. I ask it myself. Whatever. Yeah. Internally. Don't think. Just whatever comes to mind. I don't know. I'm not, it's not, I'm not really, just whatever comes to mind. I don't know. I'm not, it's not, I'm not really, nothing's jumping to mind.

What does it need? What is that judgmental part of you need? Maybe ownership. Maybe ownership. Does that make sense? Maybe like that I don't own my mistakes. But then when I say that, I feel like I try to do that like all the time to the point where I think it like bothers people in my life, you know, where they think I'm overdoing it. When you say ownership, like someone else to own it or to not have to own it? No, I think that my sense is, you know, I've never really thought about it before, is that it's like, you know, you got to suffer.

You know, that you deserve to suffer. Okay. Which, by the way, is a coping mechanism for me. That's right. One of the ways that I deal with things that some would say are unfair, my therapist says that fair is the only real four-letter word, which I like and use all the time. And at some point I will replace that he says it with it being my own idea because I like it. But the way I deal with that is, all right, so this isn't fair that's happening.

This is wrong. Okay. But who am I not to have to suffer through something unfairly? Have I never done anything wrong? Of course I have. So, okay, so I didn't do this. You know, I wasn't wrong about this. Right. I didn't, I'm not know, I wasn't wrong about this. Right.

I didn't, I'm not responsible for how he, she, it feels. But who am I not to suffer? I've done plenty of stuff. And people suffer all the time for no reason. So deal with it. Struggle. You're going to suffer. So struggle.

It's quite similar, kind of all intertwined with the inability to forgive and the judgment. Now, if I were to ask you, in that judgmental spot— Should I close my eyes again? Close your eyes again. All right. Ask this judgmental part of you. Does it know that I'm with you right now? Does it feel my presence with you?

Well, it's not like I got a demon living inside of me, but the, you know, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Does it feel my, do you feel my compassion towards the situation and how you feel? No. Okay. Okay. You're making the same mistake anybody makes. You just know more. Okay. Okay, cool. Take a deep breath, and I want you to just breathe into that space in your body where you were feeling that in your throat. And just let it go. Let's do just two deep, really deep breaths, and then we're going to be done with the session. But I want you to really give yourself a full body breath, Chris, and breathe into that space in your throat just for a moment.

And on the exhale, let it go. And just place your right hand on your throat and your left hand on your belly. And just breathe deeply into that space one more time. And let it go. And let's just do one more time. One more time. And let that it go. Let's just do one more time. One more time. And let that breath go. And then when you're ready, just open your eyes.

How'd the breath feel? First one or two was a little clipped, but then pretty good. I'm a good breather. Yeah. Even in those few breaths, did you feel any relief, any sensation of relief? I like, you know, I mean, tantric breathing, holding breath, breath counts. It always works for me.

You're doing TM with Rob. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm a fan. Beautiful. Okay, great. So my assessment of what's happening here is that- Where am I on the fucked up-o-meter?

You're not fucked up at all. You are human. You are so fucking human. The assessment is that you, like all of us, like every human, walks around with these burdened young parts of us that have been with us forever. Mine's a controller. She wants to control the shit out of everything when things feel out of control she kind of loses her shit even you know 10 self-help books in okay you know the person

the guy in the studio with you has his own whatever inner critic or he's got his own his own rage part or whatever he He knows who it is. It's you I'm talking about. You don't even know. He's like writing his memoir right now. It's like his next chapter of like what I did to him that never really happened. He doesn't even know I'm talking about him. Shut up. These are protection mechanisms. Chris, this part of you that's been in overdrive, working tirelessly for most of your life in judgment of yourself, criticism of yourself, just guilt over whatever else happens. These are protection mechanisms, and they're protecting you from young, young childhood experiences. And so there's nothing

wrong with you, my friend. You've just been living in an overdrive protective state. Look, no shame in my game. I've been using AG1 for over five years. Why? It works, it's easier, and it's less expensive. That's why. Since 2010, they've been getting their formulations right and tweaking their formulas. Why? Because the science changes, okay?

It's not like politics where people decide to believe one thing and no matter what happens with the facts, they never shift. This is the opposite. Oh, prebiotics work with probiotics, but in this way. D works with K and this type of B works with that. They have the scientists doing it, so I don't need all the bottles. I don't have to spend all the money and I don't have to figure out when to take what and why. More importantly, it's not just the regular list of vitamins.

It's the extras, okay? The adaptogens, the prebiotics, the probiotics that support your body's universal needs, gut optimization, immune support, stress management. That's what foundational nutrition is about. And these are the people at AG1 who've been doing the work to get it right. Okay. I tell friends, I tell family, I get no complaints. Okay. If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1. Try AG1. You get a free one year supply of vitamin D3K2 and five free AG1 travel packs. Okay? That's what happens with your first purchase.

So make it. Go to drinkag1.com slash CCP. Drinkag1.com slash CCP. Check it out. We don't fake the funk here, and here's the real talk. Over 40 years of age, 52% of us experience some kind of ED between the ages of 40 and 70. I know it's taboo, it's embarrassing, but it shouldn't be. Thankfully, we now have HIMS, and it's changing the vibe by providing affordable access to ED treatment, and it's all online.

HIMS is changing men's health care. Why? Because it's giving you access to affordable and discreet sexual health treatments. And you do it right from your couch. HIMS provides access to clinically proven generic alternatives to Viagra or Cialis or whatever. And it's up to like 95% cheaper. And there are options as low as two bucks a dose. HIMS has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers.

So if ED is getting you down, it's time to pick it up. Start your free online visit today at HIMS.com slash CCP. H-I-M-S.com slash CCP. And you will get personalized ED treatment options. HIMS.com slash CCP. Prescriptions, you need an online consultation with a healthcare provider, and they will determine if appropriate. Restrictions apply. You see the website, you'll get details and important safety information. You're going to need a subscription.

It's required. Plus, the price is going to vary based on product and subscription plan. But what does that mean? Like, how is it protecting me by making me feel like shit? Okay, let me break it down for you intellectually, okay? So from an IFS, which we're doing right here, my friend Dick Schwartz founded this therapy called IFS. And in this model, and it's not dissimilar to a lot of spiritual models at all, and also many different thought forms. We have these moments in our history, in our childhood, traumatic moments with a big T or a small T, it doesn't matter. You know, for me, it was

being sexually abused as a child. For somebody else, it might have been an addict as a parent or neglect or attachment breach. Whatever it was, being told you were stupid, whatever it was. Those experiences as children, if they are not tended to and cared for properly by a caregiver, like if we're not seen or secure or soothed in those moments, we exile those feelings at a very young age. We say, I'm never going to fucking feel that shit again. And we push it down, we lock it up, and it becomes an exiled part of us. Those young, traumatized little children, they're locked up. And right away, we start to build up these

protection mechanisms, self-attack, judgment, inner critic, controller, rage, perfectionist, lazy, whatever these things that we do that we sort of define ourselves as, like I'm a judgmental of myself, I'll never forgive myself, or I'm a control freak, whatever we define ourselves as, those become these qualities, these parts of us that manage our lives. Because what are they doing all day, every day, Chris? They are looking for threat. They're looking for any moment that they feel like they could be judged and they're going to say, I'm going to judge myself first so I don't have to feel that feeling. And I'm going to control everything so I don't have to feel out of control and abandoned, whatever that protection mechanism is. And when those triggers become so extreme that those managers, those protection

mechanisms that are managing everything, they don't work anymore, what do we do next? We put out the fire. They're the firefighter parts. We start picking up the drink, picking up the drug, picking up whatever, numb, dissociation, do whatever it takes to anesthetize, numb out, and not have to feel any more suffering. And so if you look at it, very simply put, there's exiled, traumatized little children that we have not wanted to address. And so we've been managing the shit out of those feelings with these protection mechanisms. And those protection mechanisms can be even more extreme and they can be like putting out the fire. And so we've got all these little experiences, little children inside of us. And so what do

children need, Chris? What do kids that have had burdened experiences need? What do they need? A beating. Oh, baby. They need to be seen. They need to be loved. They need connection.

They need compassion. They need creative solutions. They need a calmness, a calm energy. You're a good dad. I know you're a good dad. I try hard. I know you're a good dad. I'm not a natural nurturer.

Right, but I imagine that when your kids are struggling, that you are leading with compassion. Yes, I am a huge advocate for my kids, but I do often lament that I wish they had a different dad. That was more of the... At the end of the day, you do what you know, right? So I have great sisters and I never had to look know, so they're all strong women. I've always had strong women kind of taking me by the hand. And I don't even think like, I really don't have anyone, like even when I think about like, you know, Dusty who runs the show, every woman in my life is like a strong woman and every man in my life is an alpha. So, and yet I'm just tough love based.

It's pretty much the only experience I've ever had. Right. And I actually don't agree with it. I'll give you another example. And again, this is what we all knew to the audience because people in my position don't talk this way. And I totally get it. And they shouldn't because you're going to be judged

and dragged and taken out of context. And it's bad. Let me back that up for one second, my friend. I have done plenty of shit in my life. Even recently, you know, like I'm not a good, I'm not, I'm not good at managing people. I think the people that need a manager shouldn't be managing people and it's not my strength. And I'm a nice, a really kind person.

I'm a really creative, fun person to work with, but I don't do well managing people. And so when I feel out of control or shit's not getting done, I can be a real asshole. I can get really erratic. I can be anxious. It's a lot better than it was three years ago, but it's still a part of me that shows up. And so when I'm called out on it in customer and client, in my team happiness surveys and things, or somebody directly calls me out in it, my first response is, you're right. That's a part of me. It's a part of me I'm checking in with every single day. It's a part of me that I'm working on in my therapy, in my 12-step, in my own day-to-day experience.

And instead of speaking as that part of me, like defensive, right? I speak for it. And I say, yeah, this is a really young part of who I am and I'm working on it. And I want to really acknowledge that. I look, I like that. It's just, you know, not going to save, you know, the, the thousand, uh, sets of keyboards that are dying to say something bad about me, but that's okay. I don't care. When I was raising, uh, our son, um, you know, my part, not Christina's part, right? Cause the mom's raising them also, but I only had certain tools. And I've heard this story from a lot of guys where you're sitting with this little boy in front of you. Okay. And it's a little boy and you are ready to take him apart. Like it was a guy, you know what I mean? Like, you know, um, which is absurd. Okay. And it certainly doesn't

make any sense. They're triggering the shit out of you. They're triggering you. But it's all I knew, which is, you know, I'm not like this with the girls. And I know it's sexist. Yeah, I am. Okay, great. But the point is they benefit from the sexism because where I'd be like, well, let me tell you in a different way why you're not going to get what you want or where it's not going to go. People struggle with parenting because if they're pleasers, you got to learn to be in the business of not giving somebody what they want all the time. I mean, that's part of parenting.

So with the boy, though, my initial inclination was, oh, you're going to do what I'm telling you to do. Because I have spent more time learning how to make somebody physically comply with what I want than most people have spent on their lives doing anything. I've had more fight training than most people have had training in anything in their lives. So I would say to him, oh, yeah, I get it. You want it. But you're going to get it in a way that you don't want it. So my wife was like, OK, you're a caveman. And that doesn't work for me.

You're not going to pick up my son and put him to bed like he was a football. That's not going to happen. And I was like, yeah, I don't like this either. And this is true for a lot of guys, by the way. Sure, sure, sure. They'll play the tough guy. And they'll say that this is the way it's supposed to be. But we don't like it. We don't like it.

We don't like being like that. And we wouldn't let anybody else be like that to our own. But sometimes you don't know any better or you don't have it in you or there's a weakness. So what I did was, this is the upside of being someone who's so conditioned by self-criticism, self-loathing, whatever you want to call it,

is I reached out to a guy I knew named Alan Kasdan, who was in charge of the Yale Child Development Center, which is like this huge project with decades of research of how to fix bad kids. You know, people, there are no bad kids. Yeah, there are. And this guy figures out how to work with those families. He's done great work. And I did a documentary about him. So I called his ass up.

I said, I need new tools, man, because this isn't working. I'm going to wind up getting thrown out of my house over this. And I developed different tools. Now, that was hard. The learning wasn't hard. The using is hard. And I still struggle. Now my son's 17 and he's my

size. And, you know, we go eye to eye probably once every 18 seconds, but he knows where I'm coming from. And one of the benefits for my kids that I didn't have, I always say like, you know, if I had said that to my father, if I had said that to my brother, if I said that today to my brother, do you know what happened? But here's the difference. They were busy, and they weren't around the way I'm around. You know, my brother, I mean, it wasn't his job to raise me. He was put in that position. But, you know, my father, like, you know, he wasn't around.

So I had limited interactions. My son has a shit ton of interactions. My son has a shit ton of interactions. So he knows what's underneath all of it. That even in this moment where I'm like, oh, you want to use the car? And I'm saying you can't use the car. And you're walking up to me like that.

Let me tell you how this is going to go. He has a trust and a sense of safety with you. He knows I love the shit out of him. But that's all I know. So that's my point, Gabby. All I knew was man to man, you know, there could only be one number one. But let me point something really beautiful out here. And I hope that this is something that will help you see it, sort of have a subtle shift in your perception. Maybe a little tiny molecule today, okay?

It's certainly a more interesting interview than you're used to having, right? No, I only do big talk, Chris. I don't do any small talk. This is what I do. This is every interview. You are no different, my friend. Let me try that a different way. This is a lot more interesting interview than you're used to having. Probably quite a bit more interesting. All right, thank you. There you go. Okay. I'm back. Listen to me. So here we are. You noticed that you were not wanting to carry on parenting your son the way that you were. You reached out to a very reputable person for new tools, as you said. You applied

those new tools. Those new tools established a sense of safety between you and your son, so that even when you go eye to eye and you're looking him in the eye and you go, you know, he knows in his heart and his body and his nervous system, my dad is safe and I love him and he loves me. Correct. Am I right about all that? Yeah. Sometimes too safe. Okay. Sometimes he feels a little too safe. Safe, safe is really important though. Safe is really important. Don't change that. It could happen though. He needs to know like someday, you know, someday it could happen. Someday, someday the lion's going to come. But here's what I want to point out. And this is where you, I might lose you here, but I'm going to say it. And maybe later tonight or maybe later next year,

it strikes you and you're like, oh my God, that thing Gabby said really, wow. Oh my God. So it's okay if you get it today. It's okay if it comes to you in a decade from now, I don't care, but here it goes. What if I told you that those, that,al part that all these the ways that you act out are no different than the little boy that you parented as a child they're the little boys inside of you and that all they need all those parts of you all they need is to have a sense of safety and connection and so if you just change if you made the choice to adjust the way you cared for your internal condition, that that safety could be established. That no matter what, those activated extreme triggers and protection mechanisms would know that they were safe even in the moments when they were acting out. I accept the idea.

Okay, great. What if you were able to relate to yourself as the adult resourced parent that you are to your son and your daughters? What if you were able to care for your inner experience that way? Well, there's some obstacles. Okay. One, I don't care about me the way I care about them. And two, I don't come from the same place of judgment about them. Of course not. I'm asking you to hypothetically ask yourself, how different would you be if every time you, you know, had a judgmental attack thought, or you did something that you didn't think was good enough, or you felt ashamed, or whatever it was, that those feelings and those experiences and those behaviors, if they knew that they were still safe, if they knew that there was still compassion,

if they knew that there was connection from you, the adult resourced you, the parent, Chris, if they knew that even though they were acting out in all these ways, that they still were able to be calm with you, that they were having an experience of compassion from you. I don't know what difference it would make. I would assume it'd be a good one, by the way. Yeah. So what I'm here to tell you, and again, it might just be a seed that is planted in fertile soil today. I know it's fertile soil that you are because you're open, you're willing, you're reading the books, you're

having the conversations, you're doing the work, my friend. And it's these moment-to-moment shifts that are the miracles. And I know you said you don't believe in miracles, but you believe in shifts. And so the potential for a shift is to offer you this idea right here, right now, that there's a lot of young children living inside of you that didn't have the care that they needed. They just didn't. They didn't have the parental care that they needed. They didn't have that compassion, connection, safety, security. They weren't seen. They weren't loved. And that you, my friend, you have that adult resource parent inside of you. It's the same guy that shows up and he says, I got to go get some help parenting my son. That is in you and that you can develop

that and you can develop it to a place where it's so strong that that part of you that is so resourced and so loving can always show up for those internal activated parts when they get activated. And when you get this, let me tell you something. This is lots of work. It's not some small thing. But even accepting that possibility that these active parts of you are just parts of you, they're young children inside of you, that acceptance is enough to make that shift. And then the bigger acceptance is that we all have self. We all have an internal parent that is calm, compassionate, courageous, creative, connected. Right now, I'm speaking to you from self, my self energy.

I'm not activated. I'm not fangirling. I'm in myself. I'm in my truth, my authentic truth. And I know, Chris, while I don't know you, I know you because I felt your energy come through the screen. So what I know to be true about you and what I kept tuning into day after day, spent years with you during the COVID-19 pandemic, just relying on you.

Why did I come to you and not every other person on the internet or on, I watched on YouTube, but on TV? Because you were allowing your authentic, compassionate, connected self to come through. That's your gift. And so all I'm suggesting is that that authentic, genuine self has the capacity to turn inward as well. I agree. I think there is the capacity. It's just the proclivity, right? I mean, again, you know, my metaphor is the written test versus the practical. And I think it's a very common struggle. I think most- Everyone has this struggle. Everyone.

Yeah. And, you know, different, you know, everybody's, you know, it's got their own thing. And that's okay. And, you know, for a lot of us, it's just easier to dwell in the pain than to get out of it. And sometimes it's just about familiarity, but it's one of the reasons that I gravitated toward how you... Look, the ideas themselves, again, I'm a stoic junkie, right? So I read this stuff. I've read Marcus Aurelius' meditations, I don't know, literally dozens of times. I don't even know why. I'm almost like the Mel Gibson character in that movie where he's been brain programmed and he's got a thing for catcher in the rye and he's got to buy every copy of it. But he's never read a word of it.

I read this stuff fairly compulsively and all the ideas are there. The ideas are there. I like your rendition of the ideas, but more importantly, I think the DIY aspect of how you communicate these things is really powerful. Yeah. And one, I just wanted to talk to you for me. So this was a win from jump, but also I felt for the people who are going to listen to this and watch it, it would be more helpful for them to see how you apply it. And, you know, I did a lot of home, you know, I did a lot of, you know, I'm a homework person, so I did a lot of homework. And it is really interesting how people get so consumed with the biographical, you know, because you're somebody, so they want to talk to you about like your life. And at 25, you know, you've been asked this question like a dozen times, you know,

what was the 25, the inner voice? It's a, you know, because the biographical is, you know, you've been asked this question like a dozen times, you know, what was the 25, the inner voice? It's a, you know, because the biographical is, you know, it was consuming. And then when you decided to be a mother and what's the hardest part, you know, that we're obsessed with that because we want to know more about you because, you know, we're interested in you. But there's something that's missed in that, which is to actually experience the person doing what they're gifting us with in the first place. So with Deepak, I was talking to him a ton about what he's afraid of and why he thinks we're all so fucked about. If you hang out with Deepak walking up, you're going to be really cryptic about the world.

But I thought that'd be really helpful for people. But it's true. He tells the truth. Yeah. Yeah. To see you put into practice what's in the books and not about you, because that's just people wanting to know shit about you. Yeah, totally.

You can Google. To do it through the lens of me, I think is helpful to people. Because I really think that the way you explain things, like certain things that I know a lot of people in my world would want to touch, like even like meditation, okay? And I like that people have been commoditizing meditation. I think it can work for a lot of people. But the way that you explain it

and make it a tool for people, I just think is going to be closer to their idea of exercise and self-improvement than it is like some kind of new age. You know, people don't like the phrase. Yeah. So what my, my, you know, my intention in everything that I've done for the last 18 years in this field, in this career and this mission that I'm living is to first be the student for myself. So I write my books for myself first. The book I'm writing right now, this book, it's called Self-Help.

Remember I talked about we all have the self inside of us, with a capital S? Self-Help. And I'm writing it right here, right now, in this day. I'm going to hang up with you. I'm going to go off and write after my next call. And I am, in every moment, living and breathing the messages that I'm preaching. And so that also requires me to tell the truth. It requires me to be really vulnerable,

really authentic, really honest, much like you've been doing here, which is truthfully, all the world wants from us is our authentic truth. That creates connection. That creates bond. That allows somebody to recognize themselves in you. If somebody just watched you walking through life just with all the perfection and the beautiful family and the muscles and the whole thing, man, it's not going to give them the gift that you're really here to give them, which is the gift of resilience, the gift of your truth, the gift of recognizing themselves in you. And so sometimes, you know, God gives us shit that we think, well, how could, why I didn't deserve this or what, why, or I did deserve this. You

know, I'm not good enough. I did deserve this. It's actually, I see these obstacles as opportunities. I see them as detours in the right direction. I see them as the reason that we're here. If you were to just get heady with me right now, I'd say we are here having a human experience so that we can unlearn all these burdened belief systems and then share about it, be it, be that expression of that change. And so, and I mean that with all my heart, that's literally what I've accepted. And so when you start allowing yourself to practice these principles in whatever form they come, and I think I really am grateful that you said to me, oh, you're demystifying it and you're making it DIY, DIY self-help, right?

It's so important in this day and age right here in this world right now because we are a world of suffering. You of all can speak with me on the truth of what's happening in this world. It is a corrupt political scene. It is a horrific, strange time to be alive. But with that, there is the balance and there's the opposite opportunity, which is to wake up fast, to awaken to our own healing, our own inner forgiveness, to do whatever it takes to get closer to that consciousness is what Deepak said to me years ago in a one-on-one sit-down coffee. And we have that commitment. Each of us has that opportunity. And so I'm going to say the best thing I can say is to every single person listening and to you and to

myself to look at these challenges on a moment-to-moment basis and just ask yourself, what can I learn from this? How can I grow from this? And how can I forgive myself? Because just like my sponsor said to me decades ago, she'd be like, okay, let's say a prayer. Okay, let's go to a meeting. Okay, Chris, go check out that therapy. Okay, Chris, give a call to Bob Roth and let him sit with you and do some TM with you. Okay, Chris, here's my cell phone. Check in with me when you're feeling critical of yourself. You have support, man.

Like, okay, here's another book you could read. Okay, we're having a human condition that is not easy, and we've been programmed, and we've been reprocessing these belief systems over and over, and we manifest what we believe. So the only way to start manifesting more of what we do want in our life is to change the core belief systems that we've carried around for our entire lives, to change them, adjust them, to heal them, and to relate to them differently. I've written nine books on it. The 10th is on the way. And the 10th book I'm telling you is going to be that DIY self-help. But it's chipping

away. And it's not just necessarily Gabby Bernstein books or Deepak books. It could be your therapist or it could be your yoga class or it could be your own personal deep dive inward. you know, your yoga class, or it could be your own personal deep dive inward. I don't care how you get there. It's just that you wake up, right? That we all wake up and we all will be able to define a higher power of our own understanding. That's why it works in the 12 steps. It's a higher power of your own understanding. Yeah. Like I think that's, you know, for people, and I know, you know, a lot of people are going to know you already, but for those who don't, another kind of proof of kind of performance for Gabby, I don't mean performance in terms of like presentation, I mean, but in terms of the viability of what you put out there, is that the list of books reads as an evolution of, you know, because Gabby, you know, you're young, you know, which is another beautiful thing for you to have. You know, you got a lot of miles on the odometer,

but I mean, you know, you're young and it's interesting. I'm a 43 year old woman here though. I got some time away. I got 10 years on you and they matter. But you're aging backwards. So whatever you're doing is working. Yeah, I'm aging backwards. Just keep doing it.

The hip guide to happiness. Okay. Meditations for fearless romance. Metadata. Radical road to self-love and miracles. May cause miracles. That's actually, that one's called spirit junkie. And you called yourself.

Spirit junkie, right. But you called yourself a stoic junkie. I think it's kind of funny when the spirit junkie and the stoic junkie come together because it's an interesting conversation. Well, I'm always happy to learn. A six-week kickstart to unlimited happiness may cause miracles. Miracles Now, 108 Life-Changing Tools, The Universe Has Your Back, which I loved. Judgment Detox, which is a book that I've, that was the third book that I looked into from you. And then I had to go to another one

because I was like- A lot of people can't make it through that one. That one is hard. Yeah, but the idea of it is, you know, you have core beliefs and when you change those, if you don't change those, it doesn't matter what you put on top of them.

You're still making a shit sandwich, which is not how Gabby says it because she's articulate. Super attractor methods for manifesting a life beyond your wildest dreams. You are the guru. And then happy days, which is the guided path from trauma to profound freedom.

Now, if you look at that list of books and you find it online, just anywhere, they list her books everywhere. You will see that they're like building blocks on top of one another, which I always find really interesting. And it's very rare, especially in this space of thought,

because what people tend to do is put out more of the same. And I understand that, and I'm not criticizing it. I get it. But what I think is really interesting about your work is that there's, one, a natural evolution to it, which is cool. Also, this space is dominated by the idea of the fix and that, you know, the seven highly effective habits, the secret, the way, the code. Yes, yes, yes. That we want, you know, the key that we want.

What do we want? We want it easy. That's right. And we want that if you just do this and what you do is kind of put that on its head with truthiness by saying that the only thing that matters in it is you doing it. And that you will find your own secret sauce for whatever it is that you wind up trying to do with yourself and to yourself. And that there is nothing that you can read. No matter how simple you make it, and you do a good job. No matter how simple you make it, and you do a good job, every human being who confronts the reality of struggle and suffering, and I do believe in the idea that life is basically pain management, that you're going to struggle.

You're going to suffer. And it may be simple. It ain't never going to be easy. Anything in life that's worthwhile is hard. The only thing that's easy is screwing up, and then you got to pay for screwing up, and then that gets hard again anyway. And you do it well. First of all, there's so much I want to say to what you just said. First and foremost, thank you so much for seeing the evolution. Because not only are you seeing the evolution of my books, but you're seeing the evolution of my life because I've written a book a year, a year and a half between each book. So I've written 10 books in 13 years. And so I've been consistently telling the story. I'm a recontour. I just come

back and tell the story and I teach through my experience. So you've seen through that trajectory that this woman continues to grow up and you're absolutely right. People want a quick fix. My most popular books, The Universe Has Your Back, Super Attractor, The Methods for Manifesting a Life Beyond Your Wildest Dreams. Now, those are really, really, really good books. And once you get in the door and you open them, there's deep work inside there. But then books like Happy Days, The Guided Path from Trauma to Profound Freedom and Inner Peace. Did that sell as well as Super Attractor or The Universe Has Your Back? No.

Is that my most important book, Chris? It is my absolute most important book. My most important books I've ever written to date, Judgment Detox and Happy Days. Will they ever be as widely read as Super Attractor and The Universe Has? Maybe one day because I think people are going to start to wake up to the fact that they have to do work, but they're not in this moment. People want a quick fix.

They want to manifest. But the bottom line is this. You will never be able to manifest what you desire. Maybe it can come, but you don't believe you're worthy of it, so it doesn't stick around. Maybe it'll come, but you self-sabotage it. Or maybe it doesn't come at all and continues to stay blocked because we manifest what we believe. And so unless we have the courage and the bravery, it's courage and it's bravery to go to the places that scare us

so that we can come out the other side. Unless we really make that commitment to ourselves and do that inner work, then we will continue to manifest more of what we don't want. And so the secret to manifesting is to change your core belief systems. Easy to say, hard to do. Let me tell you this, though. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a commitment.

It's, and, you know, sometimes, you know, great. It's wonderful. Those of us that can afford therapy, a lot of people can't, you know, very much trying to democratize this work with my app that's coming out, Gabby Coaching app, to just make it much more affordable for people, give away a lot. There are plenty of resources on the internet that can offer you support. But I will say this, it's work, it's commitment. There's two things I want to say to that. Number one, it's a lot more work to live in this kind of chaos. It's a lot more work to manage our lives day in and day out.

It's painful. We're like a hamster in a wheel. We keep replaying and repurposing the same stories on the same people. We get into new job situations with the same kind of setup and the same kind of boss. We get into romantic relationships with the same partner, just a different face. We just keep coming back to the same problems until we adjust our internal condition. But the thing is, it sounds like so daunting. You got to do the work. You got to do the work. But my message to people is a message that I'll tell in a story. When I first got clean and sober, there was a guy who had 10 years sober, had a big career, had a really nice apartment. He was doing really well in life. The promises were coming true for him.

And I said, Joel, how did you get here? How did you get such long-term recovery? How did you get to this life? And he said, lots of little right actions. And so if you were to ask me, Gabby, how did you stay sober for 18 years? How have you recovered from repressed dissociated trauma? How did you heal with suicidal depression during postpartum? How have you handled extreme gastrointestinal issues because of PTSD?

How? Lots of little right actions every day. And so I can look at my life and I can say, it's not been easy, but every single moment of my day, I make a choice to take a small action towards my own recovery. And it's very impressive. And it's why I like to be part of the throng holding you up. Anybody can do it, but you did it. But I think that that perspective, that perspective for you and for everybody listening is that are we going to be resolved overnight? No, but can we be resolved? Can we live with freedom and

inner peace, the promise on happy days? 100,000%. And how do we get there? We take small actions daily. A small action that someone might be taking right now is just listening to this conversation. A small action, and I guarantee you, my friend, you take small actions daily. Every conversation that you have that's open and authentic like this is a small action. Every therapy session, every TM meditation, every text message or phone call to a friend asking for help, those are small actions towards radical change, which I believe is possible. I think you're empirically right. And there's really nothing that suggests otherwise. It can be as simple as you say there, hey, you think this is the easier way. In life, you got to decide to choose your hard.

It's hard to be addicted. It's hard. And it's hard not to abuse substances to self-medicate when you're going through something or just as your general stasis. They're both hard. You got to choose your heart. And it's easy to say, it's hard to do. But I believe that all platitudes, cliches, and stereotypes apply. I think they

exist for a reason. You know, we're like a bumper sticker nation. People love memes. You know, we love to say it. We just don't want to do it. Yeah. You know, half the haters in my professional world have crucifixes right after their names, you know, or say that they're people of faith. right after their names, you know, or say that they're people of faith. You know, you are what you do repeatedly. And I think that's certainly true about what you're putting out into the world. I think it's tremendously valuable. And I have benefited from it. Yeah. The Judgment Detox book, I had to close because it's hard. Most people don't finish that book. because it's hard. Most people don't finish that book.

Well, I'll finish it. But the, you know, don't worry about that. But I really appreciate you taking the time to show people what you're about and manifest its value. So thank you for doing that. I wish you much continued success. I look very forward to being one of the voices in the chorus about self-help, capital S, and just keep doing what you're doing because we need you. I want to say to you that you have been

so, it's a very happy moment for me to see one of my TV heroes in his truth because what I saw on TV night after night and now here with you, that authentic truth carries over. And your gift, my friend, is that you have that vulnerability and that strength in conjunction. You can be strong and be vulnerable in the same breath. And it's what we need. It's what the world needs. I know it has been a tough road, but I think that you in the service in this way is going to have a much bigger impact. And so take that from me. In a year from now, we can have a coffee and you'll be like, thank you for reminding me

of what I didn't know yet. Thank you for midwifing my dream and my truth. And I mean it. I mean, I'm excited to see what's going to come from you as you continue to take these small red actions. It is so easy to love what Gabby Bernstein is about. There's been so much thought and personal process that goes into her work. And I love the genius that there is no one way.

It's your way. It's what you decide for yourself and how much work you want to put into it and how much you want to believe. Easy to say, hard to do. But you got to choose your hard, right? Living in pain is hard. Living in a way where you free yourself from pain. Hard. What hard are you going to choose your hard, right? Living in pain is hard. Living in a way where you free yourself from pain, hard.

What hard are you going to choose? Thank you so much for being a part of the Chris Cuomo Project. Subscribe, follow. Please keep giving me your comments so that I can reply. And don't forget to check me out on News Nation. Love it so much that it's growing. I appreciate the opportunity that you're giving me. 8 o'clock and 11 o'clock at night, Eastern.

All right, I'll see you there. I'll see you here. I'll see you anywhere. See you next time.