The Chris Cuomo Project - Jake Barber and James Fowler Reveal the UAPs the Government IGNORES

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

Jake Barber and James Fowler (Co-Founders, Skywatcher Technologies) join Chris Cuomo to share their firsthand experiences tracking unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs) and sounding the alarm on what they say is a major failure of U.S. transparency. The pair describe how their privately run “Skywatcher” system can detect UAPs that evade conventional detection—and why they believe the government has failed to acknowledge red (adversarial) and “other” (unknown) incursions into U.S. airspace. Chris pushes them on whether this is a national security crisis, a government cover-up, or a new era of misunderstood physics—and asks what it’ll take to get the public and policymakers to finally care. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Join Chris Ad-Free On Substack: http://thechriscuomoproject.substack.com Support our sponsors: Call today 866 - eight eight nine - forty two forty four, that's 866 - eight eight nine - forty two forty four, or American Financing dot NET slash Cuomo. NMLS 182334, www dot nmls consumer access dot org OneSkin is the world's first skin longevity company. By focusing on the cellular aspects of aging, OneSkin keeps your skin looking and acting younger for longer. Get started today with 15% off using code CUOMO at oneskin.co. That’s 15% off oneskin.co with code CUOMO. After you purchase, they’ll ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support your show and tell them we sent you. Invest in the health and longevity of your skin with OneSkin—your future self will thank you. Turn your big business idea into with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial and start selling today at SHOPIFY DOT COM SLASH “chrisc” Go to SHOPIFY DOT COM SLASH “chrisc” SHOPIFY DOT COM SLASH “chrisc” #cuomo #news #ufo #uap #government #transparency #drones #tech Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I can prove to you it is no longer a close call that our government knows that there are things in the air that shouldn't be there. I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. I don't care if you call them UFOs or UAPs. The difference in nomenclature is just a distraction from the fact that the transparency's not there. And I've got two guys who know what they've seen, who know what's going on, and who know what you aren't being told. And here is a spoiler alert. It ain't about little green men, and it doesn't need to be. It's about billions of dollars and thousands of incursions

that have not been explained. Jake Barber, James Fowler, military, civilian, both sides, projects, observations, dealing with government, dealing with politicians, they know the deal of what's in the air and from where it comes. And I wanted their perspective. Do you?

Let's get after it. I want to. Well, how are you? Jake, if you want to start just in terms of laying out why you know what you know, what have you seen? What have you experienced? Okay. out why you know what you know. What have you seen? What have you experienced? Okay.

Yeah, so for the past 30 years, I've been involved with the government, both in an official and unofficial capacity, you can say, starting as an enlisted man in the United States Air Force and then transitioning to the broader intelligence community as a contractor shortly thereafter, and was put to work in a number of different ways. My work was very diverse and specialized in security and transportation, and specifically spent a lot of time in the California desert

working on the range and a number of test in the California desert working on the range and a number of test facilities where the U.S. government and its private partners play with all their research and development and test weapons systems and resilience to weapons systems, transportation, a couple of several specialized teams and task force, namely, recovery teams, crash recovery teams. And the mission of the crash recovery team was not specialized, or you wouldn't set up a team like that just to go out and get exotic material or UFOs or UAPs. You set up a crash recovery team for anything that might interface with the ground forcibly

and handle with it, handle it appropriately and be able to handle it and take into account all the variety of scenarios that might be presented when a number of things hit the ground from both a hazmat perspective, a security perspective, and sensitive information or classified perspective. And so we did a lot of work, we covered a lot of things, and we saw a lot of interesting things in the sky working out there. And, you know, the two cases that I brought forth that, that I'm comfortable talking about that I think are of interest and of import to both the public and the government are what most people know now is the egg

and the egg gone. And those were probably the two most interesting and compelling experiences that lead us to that other category where it doesn't seem manmade. It's not US military and it's not adversarial that we can detect. And it's just weird, man. It's just US military and it's not adversarial that we can detect. And it's just weird, man. It's just anomalous. So those two objects were things that our team was dispatched on and recovered. I had very, very limited experience with it.

Just from a transportation standpoint, flew in with a helicopter at night, picked it up, flew it about 20 miles, dropped it off at another location, and then my work was done. The interesting work takes place after that. And so both the egg and the agon were things that were covered in that setting. I had a very emotional, surprisingly emotional and spiritual experience with the agon. I've told that story publicly a couple of times now. And I really don't like going into the details of it because it's, I wouldn't say traumatizing. It's just kind of emotionally exhausting,

but that, that particular incident changed my life. And I feel like things have been different ever since then. Personally, there's something about that evening that had a spiritual impact on me. And it has been a challenge at first. It was quite a challenge because I carry so much responsibility. I have a lot of practical responsibilities to both my local mission of operating helicopters and communications, and then just to my team at large for being able to conduct myself in a professional and level-headed way.

And dealing with things that are otherworldly and having them touch you personally. It's not that not typically not the right headspace when you're focused on practical matters and dealing with things and every objective and when you're trying to rely on your training, which is more of your professional reflexes when you're doing work. So that led me down a path. You know, my I never really a, like the moments themselves were, uh, because you're in that mindset, I get the question a lot, like, you know, what was it like to realize we're not alone or did you have an aha moment? And, um, I, that aha moment is something that's evolving.

It's a, it's a sloping experience. It's not a switch that got flipped for me. And we're still exploring that. And yeah, so that's how I ended up becoming a voice and realizing later when the disclosure movement really kicked off 2017-2018, we were tracking that movement, trying to figure out to what extent we should be involved, if at all, and was paying very close attention to the movements in Congress and the testimony given by people like David Grush and Lou Alizandoondo and trying to figure out what play to make

and what the risk reward ratio and situation was for us coming forward. And that still is something we're trying to calculate. It's not an easy thing to really put your finger on, but it's something we try and keep a pulse on as to the risk-reward scenario for coming forward. And part of what makes that very challenging is the lack of guidance and oversight on the topic as a whole. Because, you know, as a patriot, I consider myself altruistically patriotic and altruistically

concerned with national defense. And that means even in cases where there isn't clear guidance or oversight, I still take that to heart and try to figure out what the right move is. And that can be difficult at times. Why do you think that what you learned, what you believe you now understand that you didn't before because of your experiences, limits what you say my responsibility is to be in the moment and to use my skillset. Why hasn't it just made you richer

and more expansive, let's say, in your understanding? Why is it a limitation? I would say in the moment, when you're doing something that is as demanding as operating a helicopter at night, you're running three radios at a time, every foot in hand is doing something different, and you are relying on a combination of motor skill,

as well as processing information. Like the headspace there has to be one that's very clear, pragmatic, and focused. Things that can distract you from that, you know, actually it's a standard procedure for pilots and anyone operating sensitive equipment. We do what's called a hazardous attitude inventory before we operate. It's basically like a pre-flight checklist for yourself, for the human factor, which is one of the most important parts of any system. Let's call this system an aircraft.

Everyone I'm sure understands that before you fly, you kick the tires and check the oil and make sure the aircraft is airworthy. Well, but most people don't think about the importance of making sure the pilot, the human, is airworthy. And so a hazardous attitude inventory test is one place where we take into account what are known as those psychological or aeromedical factors. And there's a number of classic cases there, uh, or classic categories within your, your personal inventory that you take into account.

And so the last thing you want to do is be spiritually emotional in any, in any regard, you don't want to be overly emotional in any regard. You don't want to be overly emotional. You don't want to have any emotion that pulls you from your center. And you certainly don't want to be having some transformative, like interdimensional, borderline, metaphysical experience

while you're sitting in the seat of an aircraft. And so it limits me in that localized incident where you're out operating, like you wanna make sure you're well fed, you're well slept, you don't have to pee, you're not hung over, you're not sick. I mean, all those things are things that would make you un-airworthy for a particular operation.

And so having one of the most emotional and spiritual experiences in my life, while sitting in the seat of a helicopter, flying in the mountains at night alone, you know, and fly a helicopter that's usually in most circumstances, you have two pilots on board. I wasn't. I was a single pilot operating a twin engine complex helicopter. And so, you know, you need to have clarity in that moment. And so it just localized in that instance, it was very challenging.

Now, that being said, in all other aspects of my life, I don't think that experience has proven to be enhancing rather than degrading. And that certainly has been a benefit as opposed to a limitation. That is a very good and fulsome answer, my brother. Thank you very much for it. James, are you still there in a week?

I am, and listening to the enthralling story there. So yeah, nice to meet you, Chris and team. So happy to be here. So James Fowler is my name. I was in the military for a long time, spent most of my time in SOCOM, retired in 2020 as a Sergeant Major, really got after a lot of different things deployed to a lot of crazy places, but I never did anything with UAPs or anything on this topic whatsoever in my military career. That actually separates me a little bit from Jake and other folks that you may speak with, and that all of my information has been gleaned and learned and understood as a civilian, as a contractor to the government or on my own

without any government interaction whatsoever. So in 2021, I was running a war game for the US government. And at that war game, I had tens of millions of dollars of defensive equipment and tens of millions of dollars of offensive equipment. That equipment included government and commercial classified, unclassified systems.

And we are arrayed in a force on force war game for two weeks at a time to a month at a time. So during the course of that initial war game in 21, we had some sightings of some anomalies. We were convinced that perhaps those anomalies were related to the IC, the intelligence community or the government. So we treated it as such.

We were very careful with that information. We kept it very quiet, which is why you've never heard from me before and never seen this before. Between 21 and 22, we decide, you know, what if, actually we thought to ourselves, what if this isn't a US government capability? What if this is an adversary or an other capability? So between 2021 and 2022,

we did a lot of open source research, a lot of analysis introspectively, thinking through what did we do in 21 to bring this attention to us? And can we replicate it in 22? And can we enhance the attraction that we get in 2022? And the answer was yes. So in 2022, we ran another war game. We've run one every year, more than one sometimes. And in 22, we had a much more exotic display of technology from whoever's flying and operating these craft.

In 1921, we only had seven that we saw in one sortie or one formation. In 1922, we saw over 250 UAPs in varying sorties from one to three upwards. So that started the effort. Again, we kept this very quiet because we thought perhaps we're at a war game, maybe they're wargaming us. But the trouble with that is we couldn't figure out what the feedback mechanism would be. In 2023, we started sharing our data openly with the government. In fact, in 2024, we were contracted by the government to collect UAP data.

You should note that in commercial and government spaces, you will never be contracted for anything to do with UAPs. It's just not the way it works. From Jake's story, talking about other things, other contracts, then UAPs, the same thing went for my team. We were not contracted for UAPs. We were contracted for other activities, with UAPs being the actual desire, but there were other inputs as well.

So we have nine classes of UAPs we've identified. These classes include signals intelligence, they include radar cross-sections, airspeed, altitude, times of day when they appear, and also visual observations in multiple bands. So we use electro-optical or daylight cameras. We use infrared, middle wave and short wave infrared cameras. And with these tools, we're able to attract the UAPs with a custom capability that we've enhanced

over the last five years. We have a 100% success rate. That doesn't mean that when we use the dog whistle that pooch or, you know, Fido comes and sits at our lap and wags his tail and waits for us to talk. No, when we use a dog whistle, we have to wait a certain amount of time after we start using it, continuously use it over a certain number of hours or days, and then the UAPs will be there at a certain time after we begin the operation. We have tested, done blind testing in terms of used the same

equipment without the dog whistle and had no reaction by UAPs, no observation for over a week. We did that more than once. So we were very, we're extremely confident that our dog whistle is responsible for calling in the UAPs. So in 2024 was our last event that we did for the government. And the word skywatcher actually was the cover term for technology that we developed between 2022 and now. That we began when we were frustrated with the military industrial complex status quo, you know, pre golden dome concepts of air defense and air intelligence. So we started designing our own technology that's actually over engineered. It's designed to detect things that cannot be seen in the sky, namely UAPs. And as a byproduct, you actually detect stealth, hypersonic, supersonic, and regular threats to the airspace. So SkyWatcher technology is actually a technology inspired by UAPs that we wouldn't have even thought of

or thought to build without UAP observations. And we've taken those lessons learned and distilled them down to a new product and new capability that will revolutionize air defense and air intelligence systems. So in 2025, we started our company, Skywatcher Technologies Corporation. Jake and I are both founders and partners there. And at Skywatcher, we continue with the same events I used to run

for the government, except these are commercially run now. We run one event per month. And at those events, we continue to get more data. The difference is that now we have a helicopter and we have other tools. So we can chase the UAP. I personally have chased about 15 UAPs and approximated two, one within about 200 meters last month. So that's what I know. We have definitive data. We have definitive knowledge.

We have no clue who or what's flying these. I'm really on the fence between which entity we're observing when we observe it, but I'm firm in my belief that there's a blue bucket probably made in America. There's a red bucket maybe made in China or Russia. And there's another bucket that we don't know where they're from.

And I'm confident that we're viewing all three of those in our airspace. And one key thing to note here, Chris, is these observations occur in broad daylight in the middle of US air traffic. So some of the videos we've released, we purposefully put air traffic in the background so people can understand. This isn't happening where there's no airplanes or no commercial aviation anywhere. So this is happening in broad daylight right next to national and international air corridors, sometimes in them. So we've observed from being at altitude with these UAPs

that we cannot see them from the air. And so it's our belief that these things are commonly around commercial aviation. In fact, we have photos and videos of UAPs in proximity to commercial aviation from our first sighting in 21. And that continues. So whoever's operating these, if it's blue,

is highly illegal. They're not squawking ADS-B. They're not adhering to international norms of air traffic. And if it's red, we should be terrified because that would mean that one of our adversaries has impunity in our airspace and can enter our airspace at their discretion, at their time, and at their location of choosing. And not only don't our forces detect it, they don't counteract it. And I will tell you, I am in constant communication with our government. I've sat with our government for the last five years

in skiffs and asked them, give me an NDA, tell me to shut up, tell me that this is ours and I'm a patriot, I'll protect national security and I will stop. Nobody has taken me up on that offer. With the same breath, I've told them, don't tell me anything, because I'm going to talk about this one day and I don't want to be tied down by NDAs to the government unless you have something you want to share. But so my mind is polluted, I'm free to pontificate and think through things

because I hold no oath to secrecy on this topic. And I will tell you that from my observations, I don't believe our government has a clue who this is. And if they do know, it fits into the red or the other category. I would say almost certainly the observations we have, if they are blue, they're very limited. Support comes from one skin. Now, I am a 54 year old guy

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So, let's drill down on this third bucket. When you say you don't know who they are, Jake, the third bucket, I'm assuming you agree, seeing how this is your partner in terms of the analysis of the bucket structure, what is the definition of the third bucket for you? Well, you know, we've all heard Lou talk about the five observables, that's a good place to start.

And it's actually something pretty significant, which is, you know, it's a good way to think about it, it's rungs on a ladder. As we're ascending this ladder to discovery, our first rung, or the first thing we're trying to achieve through our discovery framework, which is our scientific framework, starting at a low level and then proceeding

to a level of scientific discovery where we can identify what this is. That first one is to prove that it's truly anomalous. And that's no small thing. We don't throw that term around as a broad brush to paint across everything in the sky that's not an airplane or a helicopter. So some things right away, are they showing up? Is their radar cross-section or signature something that's interesting?

How does it look? What does it look like to the visual eye? What does it look like to all the different styles and types of sensors we have? And is there disparage, are there disparities between what the visual eye picks up and what the instrumentation picks up. I mean, you start to rule out things pretty quickly. You can start moving towards that other bucket pretty quickly when you look at things that are only show up and one or let's just say not all of the observation means because any conventional aircraft that would fit in the other two buckets

should at least show up. You should be able to see it with your eye and you should be able to see it on radar. You should be able to see it in thermal, EO, IR. And some of the things, when we start moving towards that bucket, some of the first things we observe are, it looks different or it's not even visible. A lot of the times there are things that will show up on radar that you can't see with the naked eye because it's moving too quickly. And this is part of our challenge when we look to get any type of imagery on these objects is where do you point the camera?

And then most of the camera or observation equipment, you start with a pretty broad field of view. And at the range and speed, some of these objects move, if they are objects and some things are more just like lights, we don't know if they're tangible objects or not. Their heart, with that broad view. You have to be able to pick them up and then you have to be able to zoom

and concentrate your observation equipment to a smaller space to get more pixels on target is a term we use. And when they move quickly or they're not visible to the naked eye, it's hard to advance your observation equipment or to get more refined data. Speed is another one. So things that move at speeds that are supersonic

or hypersonic, but don't make a sonic boom. Things that move in contradiction to what the laws of gravity and classic physics would allow us to do is something that can get you put in that bucket. But even something that just looks weird, I mean, that we should be able to define with this team, with the experience we have, the equipment we have, and the processes we have, we should be able to identify things in the sky pretty quickly. So it's actually exciting to at least label something unidentifiable or even anomalous. That's the first step. Origin and who it is, is it red and blue or other, is not something, it's not a conclusion we jump to.

We're excited when we can actually find something in the sky with any of our equipment and then not being able to define what it is. That's a big deal for this group. James, what do you think the ratio is with government transparency in terms of what they don't know versus what they don't want to show?

That's a really hard question, Chris. And I'll kind of lay it out for you. And let me start actually from a super macro view before we go into a tight zoomed in enhanced view. If you look at how many U.S. national labs there are, there's over 375. There's close to 400,000 civilians working for the U.S. government in national labs, whether they're UARCs, FFRDCs, or other other labs, doing work for the government and classified projects. Their budgets are approximately

90 billion dollars a year. I would ask what are these labs doing? Are these labs developing new advanced technology? For me to believe that the UAPs are observing are man-made of human origin, long ago I came up with the conclusion that they would have to have to have started many years ago, probably in the 40s or 50s. Perhaps they could have taken the scientists and engineers from the Manhattan Project and from Operation Paperclip when the United States squarely owned the most smart people in the world, if you will, the most intellectually capable group of men and women in existence were here, and then they formed the national labs from there. I would offer what we're observing are technologies that are at least one generation ahead of anything

we have. So if you're looking at propulsion, telemetry, cloaking technology, stealth technology, it's all well ahead of what's observable or known in the public sphere. And I can tell you, I'm an ISR expert, and the methodologies being used don't match anything I would know to be viable for technology use in a deployment scenario. Meaning the UAPs that fly past us and approximate us don't use traditional ISR tactics. There's never an orbit, there's never an obvious tactic that we would use against our enemies as per normal tactics. So having said that, it's really

hard to believe that it's ours. So the disparity between how much is ours or how much is manmade, how much is others, really hard to see through. But for certain, there's probably all three categories in play here. I'd like to add real quick too, I mean, beyond that, if our government, if we're gonna put them in one giant bucket and assume there's some cohesive and cooperative entity, which they aren't, they wouldn't be setting up programs

like OSAP, the Office of Aero. If you look at the mission statement of Aero, it's actually very similar to ours and Skywatcher. Like, OSAP was specifically set up to study UFOs. And I'm gonna go back to that classic acronym because it's just as good as UAP. And at the time that was the acronym. I mean, the government wouldn't be spending money in hiring experts and putting out requests for proposals for folks that could help look into the subject matter of

what the heck is going on in the sky. You know, AERO specifically is, it was set up to look in to investigate the UAP and provide a mechanism for reporting UAP and taking a rigorous scientific approach to discovering what it is. So the spirit of the Office of Arrow is quite exciting for guys like us because that mission is something we're passionate about and capable of looking into. But there's a lot of challenges that have become clear the last couple of years since ERA has been stood up, which is why we feel strongly that the private sector and autonomous organizations like ours stand a good chance to actually be the method for ushering in this new era when it comes to disclosure.

And we have to have the government involved because for better or worse, our institutions and our offices within government are those who we pay to be responsible and who we vote to be responsible for handling issues like this from a security standpoint and a public safety standpoint. So again, the fact that the government at large

has invested a lot of money and recruited a lot of talent to specifically look into the subject matter of UAP and UFO, which is that other bucket, is evidence itself, because you would have to ask yourself what would be an ultimate explanation for standing up those offices and issuing funding through contracts to the private sector if they knew what was going on? So, can I add to that real quick, Chris, before we leave the stop stream? Because there's something I left out of mine, which is, as I told you, I've met with the

government many times in many skiffs for many different agencies on this topic, bringing this thought stream because there's something I left out of mine which is, as I told you, I've met with the government many times and many skiffs for many different agencies on this topic, bringing them data, briefing them, showing them PowerPoints, giving the government data, I've given the government over a terabyte and a half of UAP data, specifically and explicitly for these classes of UAPs. This includes radar data, imagery data, signals intelligence, all the above has been given

to the government. When I have gone to offices whose core mission is UAP studies, it's really hard for me to discern if they are purposefully being incompetent or if there's a big bureaucratic problem, you know, a blockage in the way, stopping them from being effective. I have been to national labs who are supporting this effort. And the same thing that I find in the DC region is folks asking the wrong questions, not studying this, not taking it seriously. And if they are taking it seriously,

again, I'm not quite sure if it's masked or purposeful incompetence or true incompetence. I have a hard time believing it's purposeful because the people are very smart and very capable apparently. But when I tell the government I have a terabyte and a half or two terabytes of data to give you, a lot of times they can't even take it. They're like, hey, how do we get this in a skiff? Hey, can you send me a link? You know, they ask all the silly questions about how they can even ingest our data. And it's been extremely frustrating. We have, we have recognized

from the beginning, this has to be a public private partnership. This cannot be done by the commercial sector. And clearly, it can't be done by the government sector. So it has to be a pairing for authorities with the FCC and FAA to collect the data and run operations to the government bringing bespoke tools. There are things that we need in a relationship to proceed and be successful here. And I would offer is extremely frustrating when we see people publicly in public hearings

stating they want this data, that they want this information. And then we go to meet with them, we put on a suit and tie and show up a Capitol Hill and we get met with, well, this staffer was interested so he came, but the other staffer wasn't so they didn't. We get a lot of back and forth and himhine and no true actual sit down and discussions, even in an unclassified format to share and help them understand what's unfolding in our country. Support comes from Shopify. When I started the podcast, man, it's scary. I'm not entrepreneurial by nature. I started to have ideas of how I wanted to monetize ideas and products and find ways to

crowdsource contributions, get money together, and I realized once I started to have my own money together and I realized once I started to have my own challenges, I looked around at the marketplace of what I was using when I shopped online and more and more I found a familiar coincidence. More and more of the businesses that I chose to use because of the efficiency and kind of the whole sell-through process were using Shopify. So turn your big business idea into ka-ching! Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 a month trial and start selling today Go to Shopify.com slash Chris C. Go to Shopify.com slash Chris C. What is it? Shopify.com slash Chris C.

Why? Because it's not just about your business. It's about the business behind your business. And what you need to do is to help people who come to you get all the way through to checkout. And that's where Shopify excels. Okay, so then we have the moment where President Trump comes in,

says, enough of this no transparency stuff. We are going to tell you what we know. And his lady comes out and says the same shit that Biden's lady said. What does that tell you, James? It tells me we have a problem in our bureaucracy that it takes a presidential candidate saying something extreme that apparently probably

was not able to live up to. We will see. We have three and a half more years, I think, to find that out. But why does it take the president saying that or trying to make efforts? Why does it take an executive order when we have a bureaucratic process who's mandated to expose to the public what is going on here and that has not occurred? So something is very wrong with our country if

that is the case that we have to rely upon one individual to see through the smoke and mirrors. Well, what is the chance, Jake, that the answer is, oh, it's all explainable. They're all just this exploding corporate and consumer and individual drone market, helicopters and fixed wings, and some careful editing by folks at home to drive superstition? Yeah, I would say the first answer to that is

because it's a public safety issue and there are laws being broken. So especially when we get into some of the incursions we experienced, I know New Jersey's gotten a lot of spotlight, but there's been a lot of that going on for years prior to that over military bases that James and I are keenly aware of. And just from, to make it real simple,

like these craft are not, a lot of the times, are not operating in compliance with the federal aviation regulations, which have to do with the FAA. They are not reporting, they are not in communication, they're not under the command and control of air traffic control centers. And so collision avoidance, it's a real simple thing. The FAA and our airspace is very organized and very well managed for good reason.

And so, I mean, it's still surprising, I think to everyone, to say something like, you know, flying in planes is the safest means of travel. It's scary to people because we're flying, right? But it's safer than driving your car down the road. And that's because our airspace is very well managed through the FAA. So when you have objects or phenomenon,

which is a broader category, in the air that aren't being reported to pilots that are operating their sometimes general aviation, like civilian owned aircraft, you've got a problem. And not only is it a problem for the public, which is operating their privately owned aircraft, but if there is a collision, now that's a problem for the public, which is operating their privately owned aircraft, but if there is a collision, now that's a problem for everyone on the ground because

gravity takes over. Now you have things crashing and causing damage to people and property, which at its core is a public safety issue. And so there are laws being broken. And so when laws get broken in the FAA, the FBI should step in and open a case and begin investigations. And we don't see a lot of that happening either, which is very strange.

Is it strange though? See, that's my point is it can't be that they're spending this much money working with special operators and don't know what's flying over military bases, can't be. So it has to be one of two things. They know and don't wanna say, or they don't know and know how bad that looks so they don't wanna say.

It can only be one of those two things. So Chris, if I may on that, if you take the Jersey drone problem, for example, the government I think is really at a crossroads where if it's red, which is my personal belief that the majority of sightings in New Jersey have been probably Chinese drones and maybe even Chinese UAPs, right?

They are operating with impunity in our airspace. And if they are being operated by Chinese military officials or government officials, most would consider that an act of war. So I think our government is really torn in the fact that if this is red, that's operating in our territory, if it is China or Russia or somebody else, and they know it and they talk about it publicly, then they have to react, otherwise admit that others are in our airspace,

and we are not stopping them. Conversely, if it's other, we have the exact same problem. Hey, we cannot protect you. We are not able to alert you or deter this. It's in our airspace. So I would offer that the government's really a rock and a hard place. If they come out and speak about what's going on publicly, directly, then they are shown to be incapable and it shows the limits of our capacity to defend ourselves. And I would offer perhaps the tariffs that are going on aren't just about tariffs and trade. the tariffs that are going on aren't just about tariffs and trade. Perhaps we are seeing an escalation at the beginning of a cold war because our government cannot say this publicly. Perhaps instead,

they're using policy to deter on the front while in the back, they're having private conversations, explicitly laying out go, no-go areas. You know, guys, we, we had a moment, uh, last month, or, um, if you or if people were paying attention, I haven't seen many conversations on this, but we had a moment when Zelensky was speaking to Trump and they were letting the cameras roll. Vance was there. It was a very raw moment that was interesting, to say the least. But during that conversation, if you notice, there was a point where I saw Trump

get most irritated and agitated. And that's when Zelensky was pushing back a little bit and speaking to one of our greatest attributes as a nation, which is simply our geography. Like our geography has been a big part of what has kept us safe forever. And there was a moment, because of our oceans and our skies, those two domains are becoming a liability force. There was a moment there where Zelinsky said, you know, well, you're protected by your oceans, but we know that's a problem, something to the effect that that's not that's going to be a problem for him. You know, that's

you're no longer safe when it comes to your oceans and airspace. And Trump got really heated and cut him off and told him to shut up. So that told me that there there is some insecurity with that, that at least Zelinsky and probably everyone else is aware of, and that might be speaking to some of the things that folks are talking about now. There's an article that came out this week about the Chinese submarines that can release drones from underwater.

So there might really be things going on like that where our leadership is not wanting us to know that they don't have a handle on this and they don't wanna have mass panic. I don't know, James. I have a hard time believing that Trump would be that deep into something like this and not be talking about it.

I know people talk about it's not about exposing you guys to political analysis, but the idea of he's playing 4D chess or whatever it is, it's not been my experience. My experience is that he is very obvious about what's going on. And if he had something to say about this, I don't think he would be so quiet so long. We've never seen him practice that in anything else. Yeah, so that's really hard to say. I'm not inside the administration. I have no insights into what's going on behind closed doors

and everything I have right now is opinions and observations based on the knowledge we have and the conversations we've had. What I can say is the technology we're seeing does not fit anything that is publicly known to exist. And when I say publicly known to exist, I'm talking about propulsion, stealth, cloaking, fuselage technology. Everything we're seeing is impossible to exist with today's current public knowledge of technology. So is disclosure more about disclosing secret physics like Eric Weinstein says, or is disclosure more about little green men? And I tend to lean on disclosure right now, especially from our government,

is probably going to be more about physics. And the reason why is one plausible explanation for why we have been exposed to this technology just so that we can expose the fact that the physics supports these capabilities with us starting a new agent physics publicly and new technology developments in physics leading to an improvement in our current status quo. So perhaps our role here at Skywatcher

is frankly to observe and report and to begin the reverse engineering of what is being seen. But I would offer, if that is the case, we're gonna be 50 years behind any government because that activity had to have started at least in the 50s or 60s and progressed to what we're seeing now, probably in the 90s, early 2000s. So perhaps that's what's going on is disclosure is to softly show the world that this technology

exists by disclosing to us that the physics behind it exists, because what we're seeing, as I said, is completely unexplainable. I don't think, you know, Trump did sign an executive order that led us to the Golden Dome initiative. And near the end of the things, one of the last things they speak to that we're trying to get a handle on with that effort is defense against other next generation attacks. So to me, that speaks to another bucket from their perspective, and they're leaving that pretty wide open.

And I think that is the Trump administration and everyone that's been put to task since he took office is taking this seriously and is admitting that there is another category. Listen, I think there has to be another category, and it has to be that he has been informed of what the restrictions and barriers are, and he has determined that there's just not enough in it for him, and I don't mean that as a criticism, but that, all right, fine, whatever, this is not why I was elected.

This is not what I'm into anyway. And they just moved on and this person came out and said, oh yeah, all those things are fixed wing aircraft and other kinds of drones and stuff. And it's exactly what the Biden people said. So. He is one guy. The president has to trust everyone below him

in the executive and we have to trust everyone else to be doing their job. So I can't imagine for it to be something that we're going to rely on Donald Trump to wake up and think about every day. I can't imagine all the things he has to consider. And to give this attention to for him to be the primary responsible party for dealing with this just doesn't make sense. So I think he's delegating and trusting that everyone else whose job it is to look into this is going to be responsible for it. I think it's more that than it is him keeping secrets. I don't think it's him keeping secrets at all. I think that there's just there's nothing in it for him right now

to buck what he's being told. And, you know, same thing with the disclosure of the Kennedy stuff and the King stuff and the Epstein stuff, is that he's got other people doing it. They are not primary concerns for him. So he doesn't buck the system. But if we were to get hit by a drone,

guess what would change? All of it. So I wonder if we're just an attack away from this culture of secrecy and non-transparency changing because of a horrible situation. So Chris, I don't think we're one attack away, we're one mishap from an aircraft away from this being exposed.

If this is, no matter which bucket it fits into, blue, red, or other, if a craft crashes and is picked up and is observed and it has Chinese writing on it, there's gonna be a big deal. And if it's picked up and it has weird characteristics nobody can explain and fits the other category, again, it's gonna be a big deal. And if it's picked up and it has weird characteristics nobody can explain and fits the other category, again, it's gonna be a big deal.

No matter how you cut the cake, we are one mishap away from this being a very public, acknowledged and discussed in every home conversation. And so I really hope we're able to get ahead of that. We have told the government, we met with them, look, we want a public-private partnership, we want to expose you to our technology, we want to expose you to our findings in the immediacy of collecting it. And thus far, we've had very limited success in those conversations. And we've told the government, you can either

be part of the solution as we unravel this, or you can read about it in the newspapers when it happens. And we've invited them and we continue to invite. We have that open invite now that we'd love to work with the government to secure our aerospace, understand what is going on and help unravel and expose the red or the other category if that's what needs to happen.

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any difference? And the reason I ask is, you know, we're doing it because we think there's a responsibility in that government transparency matters and is a very communicable issue and infection in government, that if they're not transparent about one thing, they're not going to be transparent about anything. But when I look at the people who are on the commission, the committee about this, I don't see any real players in Congress.

There's none of the leadership. And I feel like they still don't take this seriously, Jake. They see it as like kind of a freak show. I think News Nation has been vitally important. I think you guys would be surprised to learn how many people in government on Capitol Hill are on their phones watching podcasts, watching the news. There's a bit of like, you know, are there like closet fans of the subject matter? That has been my experience.

There's a lot of conversations, lots of people having beers in and around Capitol Hill, having conversations about it, and they are paying attention to this, 100% they are. And they're just, it's also News Nation is, I think has the same opportunity and responsibility we do at Skywatcher is we are autonomous. We are free from the constraints of bureaucracy

and politics and distraction. And when people don't have the safety and security, for us, this goes back to like the risk reward ratio for any whistleblower coming forward or anybody wanting to touch the topic. Unless there is financial protection, legal protection, and physical protection, when any of those core things in any situation are threatened for a human being, they're not going to touch it with a 10-foot pole. And it can be one or any combination of those three things. And for us, we're in a unique position now with Skywatcher

where we're financially independent. We feel reasonably physically safe. Men in black haven't showed up as James has talked about. No one is telling us to stop right now. And then legally, it'd be nice to have more protection, but we do feel legally covered in what we're doing. And News Nation is the same. And so I think our autonomy should not be taken lightly.

And so some of the other news platforms don't seem to have the autonomy in those three categories that News Nation and Skywatcher has. Can I add on to that real quick? Yes. It's important also to understand that because of our autonomy, we have the best of both worlds. We're able to go sit in a skiff with the government, present them information, findings, get their

feedback to a limited degree, and then go out in the field and continue. At the same time, we're able to operate with industry, industry experts, scientists, academia, physicists, and have them review what's going on and in real time give us updates on what they think we're seeing and why it matters. Our hands are not tied and we can operate in these circles in this manner. The challenge we have is, you know, this is a very risky taboo topic, right? This was not what I was doing full-time until recently, and even now it's not full time, we're growing into it. But before now, I inherited nothing but risk by even talking about this. Risk to government contracts, risk to commercial contracts in my businesses, personal risk and angst of am I saying the

right things? Am I talking to the right people? Am I doing the right thing? So that's a lot of risk. And I think that corporate entities, other media outlets view the same thing as this is just risk. And with such risk, why should we continue? Well, something is violating our airspace daily, probably year round with impunity. I'd say that's a very big deal. And I think that we have to address it. And I think that trumps any kind of risk to one's personal reputation or corporate entity to understand what that means and quantify the risk to our nation. I appreciate you fellows. I am always a call away to help advance understanding and push for transparency and I appreciate

the work you're doing. Michael, nice to see you out there. Nice to see you got a podcast now. I think these long-form discussions are important and that NewsNation is important. Look, I don't know why the government isn't telling us all it can, but I know it isn't. And I don't think it's about having a Martian in a room. I think it's about what they believe they need to do as a duty to you and what they believe you don't deserve to know.

And I don't accept that. So now you are armed with more information and perspective that should be driving your demand, your insistence for more transparency. That's the issue for me. The high priest of journalism and in politics can laugh it off. Ho, ho, ho, ho, you're worried about Martians?

No, I'm worried about billions of dollars that go into programs that you feel you don't have to explain and yet you tell me there's nothing to know. That's bullshit. Thank you very much for subscribing and following here. Thank you for wearing your independence and getting your free agent gear. Thank you for joining my sub stack.

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