The Chris Cuomo Project - James Carville Wants Democrats To Go Scorched Earth On Trump

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

James Carville (political strategist & consultant) joins Chris Cuomo to explain why he believes Donald Trump poses a unique threat to America, why Democrats need to stop playing defense, and why he thinks it’s time to go all-in against Trump and MAGA. Carville argues that Trump’s actions are doing lasting damage to the country, while Cuomo challenges whether anger and escalation are actually the best path to winning elections. The two debate whether Democrats should focus on exposing Trump’s behavior or offering a more compelling alternative, the political lessons of Bill Clinton, the future of the Democratic Party, the rise of James Talarico and Graham Platner, why voters forgive politicians they believe are fighting for them, the state of the 2026 midterms, and whether Trump’s political movement is stronger or weaker than it appears. They also discuss media incentives, economic populism, and whether Democrats are missing the biggest opportunity in American politics today. #news #politics #trump #democrats #cuomo Join The Chris Cuomo Project on YouTube for ad-free episodes, early releases, exclusive access to Chris, and more: https://www.youtube.com/@chriscuomo/join Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Head to https://cozyearth.com and use code CHRIS for an exclusive 20% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Democrats have made a decision. We get it from their spirit animal. It is time to go full offense in the face of Trump and beat him at his own game everywhere that he is in every way that they can. No more nice, no more going high. that this guy is more than wrong, he's bad. And he's bad from a moral perspective. He wants to hurt the country. He's trying to hurt the country. Is that what's going to win? I'm Chris Cuomo.

Welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. James Carville is leading this charge. You know, he had been kind of sidelined a little bit by his party. But now he is once again their spirit animal. And he is saying, yeah, I got Trump derangement syndrome. I hate this motherfucker. That's literally what he's saying, and he believes it's what needs to be said if they want to win elections. So I wanted to have a real thorough conversation with him. And to be very clear, I understand why he feels the way he does, but does it get him to where he wants to be? You decide. The Rajun Cajun is back and more Raging than I've ever seen him with the rest of you. Quick disclaimer.

I've known James Carville longer than he is aware. Grew up hearing about his mastery from my brother and respect and appreciation from my father. I like James Carville. I respect the hell out of him. and I will defer to him on matters of political strategy. I don't understand the shift that he is advocating for. Not that I think he's bad. I could never think that.

Jimmy Carville taught me two things that matter to all of you. One, the whole point of a party is to win elections. Now, I am anti-party, as you know, but that's idealistic and impractical. I get that, but I'm also not in the game of winning elections. You have a party to win elections. That's what it is. The second thing is you've got to figure out what works and not be tied to any morality of what that is as long as it gets you in a position of power in a way that's legal and ethical.

So do you think you're checking those boxes right now by going scorched earth and saying you hate Donald Trump and encouraging the Democrats to knuckle up? Okay. Well, thank you, Chris. First of all, thank you for asking that question as part of the conclusion. In my opinion, the United States is in peril compared to 1942, 1862.

I think the entire idea of the American experiment is about to blow a gasket. So what does that call for? Well, to me, that calls for anything that's legal within the law. You don't want to break the law. Be very clear about that. that draws attention to this is worth doing.

I think, I personally believe that this is not a situation where we have Democrats who I like better than Republicans who I don't like very much. This is a situation, in my view, that the very existence of this country is at stake here. And I think I'm acting appropriate to what I really think. All right, so let's question the premise, okay? I know the case can be made.

And I get that a lot of people share your concerns. All right. I hear it at home. I even hear it in the firehouse, Jimmy. Okay. I hear it when I'm fishing. I hear it. But I hear just as much, oh, please. The democracy is always in peril when you're not in power. If every election is the most important, everybody is the worst. You said about Trump in the first term and now you're saying it again. Now, we survived it and we will survive it. Don't be so dramatic for effect. Well, let's just assume we're doing an experiment 10 years ago that a traitor became president of the United States. Let's just assume that. I'm not saying Trump is a traitor, but I make the assumption what we're to do. First thing, they'd run the country into unimaginable debt. Thank you. It's now at $40 trillion.

David Jolly, who is a deficit scholar, who's a Republican deficit hawk, is out of Democrat running for governor of Florida. says that more debt has been accumulated under Donald Trump than all the rest of the presidents combined. The second thing you would do is you would destroy every alliance that has kept the United States safe and has kept the world out of major European land wars. You would get rid of that. Then you would put and head of the director of national intelligence, the number one intelligence person in the entire United States who has zero experience at anything to do. do with intelligence, but who people suspect probably rightly so that he'll try to use the

intelligence service to spy on Democrats or to confiscate ballots. If you were a traitor, you would cause complete distrust. You would create every shady financial thing. You would buy stocks in the middle of a war, sell stocks at certain times in a middle of war. So I'm not saying that I think Trump is a traitor because I don't know it's in anybody's mind. But what I'm saying is, as he would do what any other person would do to try to hurt the United States. And I think that there may be 82 this year that the United States has been good to me. In my own mind, I think my country has called me to fight as hard as I can. Okay.

And again, I respect the passion, and I know this is coming from a real place. And by the way, I also know something else. I want to have this conversation with you because I know it matters to, critical thinkers and people who are worried about what's going on. And I know I'm going to get beat up in a lot of the clips, even the ones I put out, because it's going to look like I'm trying to defend Trump. And that's not the point. I'm one of his most outspoken critics. I'm just saying I don't accept the premise of what the motivation is. You don't have to be a traitor to not manage the pandemic well and to cut taxes without paying for it. You just have to be a jackass. Okay. You don't

have to be a traitor by design and intent to make the kind of staffing moves he does because he is a narcissist who has a perverse sense of loyalty as what is really fealty. So that's just who he is, it's who he's always been, not that he's a traitor necessarily, but that this is just his level of incompetence. Everything he's done that you can criticize doesn't have to mean he's a Nazi or Hitler or a traitor. And I think when you exaggerate the premise of his motivation, you give space for people to defend him and to think that you are equally crazy.

I guess let me clarify because I would be very clear. I said, I don't know if he's a traitor or not. What he is doing is what a traitor would do, all right? The actions are. His motivation could be something else. But if you were a traitor, you would do exactly what he's doing. And you could take any one of these instances.

But it's all about the motivations, Jimmy. Why did he blow up? At some point, at some point, it's the result. If you're doing something that's destroying the country, and you say, well, it's not my motivation. I just want to make as much money as I can't. I can't sift through the motivation. I can only see what I see right in front of me,

and that is a country drowning in debt, turning its back on his allies, getting involved in wars that he now says he's bored with. You got Gerald Ford out there for nine months, the plumbing's backed up to God knows whatnot, and he's just bored with dealing with it. I get being sick of it. I get being sick of it. I get being afraid of it. I get being worried about it.

I just think that the opportunity is to say to MAGA voters, and some of them were yours, by the way. In fact, a lot of them were yours and my pops and say to them, look, you are right about what's wrong. Okay? You were right. Now, let's talk about what's still wrong because 80% of us are going to agree on what that answer is. And then let's just commit ourselves to who's going to do something better as opposed to blaming us for why we're here. We all know where we are. How do we get to a better place?

I think that's this face. Not he's a traitor. He's a threat to the democracy. see, we got to get rid of them. I don't think that wins the midterms. And I think that's why it's so close in the polls of the midterms. Well, first of all, I disagree with this close in the polls in the midterms. But be that as it may, I've never seen a congressional ballot test Democratic so

win. But let's forget all of that. At the end of the day, yet a Magabotus, if you could have any reason. By the way, he's lost. His approval among Republicans is down to 80%. He's lost a subpoise. substantial number of megabotus. Yes, he has.

And at some point, he's so low. And we have enough, right now, if we took the megabotas that have defected, we're going to win easy and we're going to win everything. Then why aren't the polls showing that? Well, the polls, every time they have an election, Chris, the Democrats overperformed by eight to 12 points. I don't want to bring into something as relevant as elections, but that is what's going out.

His approval in the polls is 36%. All right? the direction of the country, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And if you say, look, anybody can make a mistake, anybody can be betrayed. I think, and I have been very, very clear in blaming the Democrats for the debacle of 2024 had Joe Biden gotten out earlier, and I've been clear and consistent over a long period of time about this. But if you still think this guy's doing a good job, I just, I want you to not get sick.

I don't want anything to happen to you. I want you to have health insurance. I just don't give a crap about you. If you've seen all of this and you're not moved, I get it. I get it. But I'll tell you what a lot of them are clinging to. And of course, we're generalizing. I have brilliantly set up my shot today so I can move in and out of the shadows,

because that's where I am. I'm nuanced, man. You're a hammer. Okay, I'm a scalpel. And what I'm saying is the reason they're hanging on is two basic things. Very basic. One is nobody wants to be wrong. especially when emotionally they feel that they are justified in what they did in the first place

because of what was done to them. So that's really important with voters. You know this. Bill Clinton was amazing at negotiating this space that I'm talking about. He didn't blame people for their votes. He would just say to them, I get why you did it. I feel your pain. And now let's put it to some purpose.

That was his brilliance. Bill Clinton does not do what you're doing. Bill Clinton does not advocate to say, look, let's just demonize this motherfucker and just be done with it. This is a bad guy. He's bad. Every way you can measure somebody is bad. He duped people. And don't fuck around with policy and with nuance or any of that.

Just hammer him where he is at every moment. And we're going to win because it's a battle to the bottom and he's going to get there first. That may work. It feels good. That's what Newsom is doing. but I don't see it in the measure of the majority because to them it's a challenge of having to pick between two bad choices because everybody's just saying how bad everything is. Are you ignoring the biggest opportunity by being in the mode you're in? I have genuinely concluded that here's a threat to the United States.

I will do anything that I can to expose what I think including that I have a platform, which most people don't have. to say and give people evidence that he is a threat to the United States. If someone voted for him again, I blame the Democrats, I can see where you come from. After all of this. Blame Biden. Biden deserves some stink on him. I did blame Biden. He was supposed to be a one-term guy.

And then he turned his back on that promise. He did it for bad reasons and ego. And then he saddled you guys with Kamala Harris, who I don't even think would have won your primary. First of all, I'm blamed by it. I'm blamed it on his show. I've said he should not have stayed in. I know. But none of that.

I think the United States is under existence that we know is under severe peril. And I have concluded that I'm going to do everything in my power to expose this and have people made aware of it. I don't think this is just a case of somebody I disagree with. I don't think this is Bob Dole. I don't think just as like John's Newton. You think he's a bad guy and he's demonstrated that everybody. Sometimes bad people can also be capable of doing it. I think he's working against the interest and the traditions and the laws of the United States.

I can't be any clearer. And this is not something that I roll out of bed one morning and thought. It's something that I talk. to people I thought about. I said, what's your obligation? What's your duty, given the way that you feel? And to the best of my ability, I've executed on what I was concluded would be my duty to expose this. BetMGM, an official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League, has everything you need for 2026 Stanley Cup playoff action. Hockey fans in Canada can place live bets every game during the quest for the cup. Create same game parles. Take place.

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It could be in Florida, it could be in Georgia, it can be in Texas or anything that you look at. And the other thing that I find greatly encouraging for our future democracy is black voters are very agitated and turning out in unprecedented numbers. Secondly, you had the election, the most important thing that happened last night, bear with me, was the Republican primary for governor of Iowa. There was all this Trump's on a rampage. Everybody that he endorsed his wins and everybody else loses, he is in total control of the Republican Party. Except it didn't work out in Iowa. And I think you're going to see a vote out of these agrarian states, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa. Illinois, for sure, a lot of Wisconsin, Minnesota.

This man is destroying American agriculture, and it's something I knew about because I grew up agrarian. The increase said, I don't care about the price of gas. Let me tell you who plans about the price of petroleum, that's the far. They tractor fuel, they have fertilized, they've got transportation costs. They also need immigration laws that allow them to hire season of labor. So I think you can see a big, big, big, big anti-thruck boat in agrarians. Well, they're also huge beneficiaries.

And I'm not talking small farms. I'm talking agribusiness. They solicit, encourage, motivate, and compensate people for coming in illegally. They then reward them with jobs where they put them up in substandard houses with substandard wages. And those people wind up putting a lot of money into the economy. So the bad guy here has always been a little misdiagnosed. in my opinion, because you should be busting the employers. And not someone who's made, you know, a guy who's a senator whose maid is from Honduras and

didn't come in or overstayed or visa or whatever. That's not the threat. The threat is the big employers. But big money always wins. See, that's what I don't get. Why aren't you more, not Bernie, not Bernie, because there's an idealism that seems to overshoot practicality with him. But go after the people who benefit from the bad system.

Call out the bad system and go after that. That's the treasonous. That's the ruinous. That's the decay. Trump is just a big mouth who's going to be gone in two years. Well, first of all, he's been gone and how much destruction and how much is he? Or do you think he's not going to be gone? Do you think he won't leave?

Can I answer your question? Can I have a better question? Can I? I might not like corporate agriculture. Okay. I got to pick my targets. There's 50 things that I don't like. All right?

But I got to pick my talk. I got to pick my target. And my target, who I think is the most destructive person in the United States happens to be our president. And I cannot get that across with enough depth and enough passion, right, to see that. And I got to tell you, you know, everybody sees what they want, here's what they want. But, boy, as I travel around this country, I'm a little bit of a walking billboard, there are a lot of people that agree with me.

and not just the people you would usually expect. More than ever. More than ever. I just wonder who you're leaving on the table by saying, I hate this guy. I have TDS. He's the worst. He's treasonous.

Right. I know. I don't think you're lying. I'm saying I wonder how many independents are like, all right, well, you've gotten a little bit too upset about this, Jimmy, and you've got to calm down

and tell me how you're going to make it better. A lot of people have asked me to calm down. Right? I'm not asking you to calm down. You're pointing out that you're different. But however you do it, understand. I think this is, and by the way, independence is broken from Trump, depending,

we could do it a half-hour show on independence and how you define them, because everybody has their own definition of independence. If you see a poll that has more than 10% independent, throw the poll out. It's not accurate they don't know how to ask the question. But even there, when you, he's lost 20, percent of the Republicans. You say, well, 97 percent of the Democrats against it. Well, assume

it's a 40, 40, 40, 20, 20 country, 40 Republican, 40, Democrat, 40 independent. 97 percent of 40 is a substantially bigger number than 80 percent of 40. So you're going to have a lot of Democratic movement just as a result of self-identified Democrats and self-identified Republicans. He's underwater with the best definition of independence. He's, he's, He's probably underwater 40 points. This is not sustainable. I agree. Can we get to an extra...

I just wonder if you're helping him by becoming like him. I don't know. I've got to do what I think. I've got to do what I feel. I don't think I'm like him. I'm not a criminal. I've never been convicted of a felony. I've never bought and traded stocks in the middle of a war that I knew it was getting ready to happen.

I've never done any of these things. I was asked by somebody, what's the different thing? You're into January 6th riot. I'll tell you what the difference is. I'm not a criminal. I didn't assault the Capitol. I didn't beat up a police officer. I use my constitution given,

God-given right to speak out and save my mind. And I've never advocated that anybody ever break a law. Because that would be the most necessary thing. But I do know what he's doing. I do know about all of the sleazy stock trading. It's all been public. It's all been documented. I do know this is going on.

I do know that he said he could care less about the war that Americans at risk that are overworking, that are over deployed, that are over everything. I do know he said he doesn't ever think about the American family's finances when he's making a decision. I know that happened. I am not a criminal. I point out what I see. And at some point, the other hand, I don't even see any wisdom in the other hand. That's how passionate I am about this. But I am not a criminal. You are not a criminal. You're nothing like a January 6. January 6er is somebody who decided the system no longer mattered as much as their own ambition, as their own outrage,

and that they would take things into their own hands and break the law and it was okay. And they were right because Trump did everything he could to not just motivate him to do that, but to save them from what they decided to do. And that's what this slush fund was, which was, by the way, when I decided to have this conversation with you, when I saw that even on the right, one of the only benefits of them running away from their job and ducking out on the war powers resolution was that they got to hear at home, hey, this slush fund insulating him from ever getting audited again, giving them money, paying the people from January 6th. What the fuck? With my money, in the name of 1776, on our 250th birthday, you're doing this? They came back, as you know, but just for the audience. They came back, went to Johnson and said, you got to stop this first. We cannot own this.

We have owned too much already. We will not even give you votes on things that we need to do like CBP and Homeland Security. We're not going to do it. You've got to get rid of this. He went, he met with Trump. He told him I'm scared about the caucus. I haven't heard him like this before. You've got to back off.

And he did. And it made me realize that there is still space for these people and certainly regular people to respond to what's in their best interests. And best interest for American families is not hearing that I got to vote Democrat because Trump is a piece of shit who may want to ruin the country. It's going to be, I'm going to give these people power because I believe there's a vote Democrat. a chance that they'll do something about the things I know are wrong. That's the space, Jimmy, as I see it. First of all, he didn't have votes, so to speak, said, I don't have the votes, all right? He wanted to do it. Understand, it's motivation. No question. No question. Dark motives. Again, the fact that he couldn't do it by losing five votes in the Republican House,

I don't know how much you would have lost it. It would have been much more than that, but that's plenty enough to kill it. Now we have this idiot arch that we're trying to deal with. And so much of what Trump does, Chris, is not just that it's ghost, it's stupid, it's undignified. It's part of what I see is he doesn't like our country. He doesn't like our values. Our capital city is built on small or Republican values. So it doesn't look anything like London. it. It doesn't look anything like Versailles, all right? Because that's not what we do. We don't do ghosts. We do tasteful Republican architecture to reflect what the country is. He doesn't even understand that. He doesn't understand anything about to origin this country. He's using the 250th

anniversary. Frankly, he's embarrassed in the country. The concert and the fact that no one will do it, and they got every D-minus level entertainer saying, I'm not going to do this. So I go back to my central point is I think he is a threat to the United States. And all I see here does nothing but buttress my argument. I don't think he even knows what the United States is. Well, maybe it's all. They changed after the Civil War.

I know. That is true. I see it as a look, I think it's implore bassoonum. I think it's an entity. I think it's an is. And I think we've got to emphasize that much more than what you see is the current point of emphasis. I don't disagree with you about your analysis. And, you know, I was thinking the other day and talking with Andrew, my Andrew, my brother, about the difference, and he put this really well.

The mistake of the Democrats is that they want everybody to be offended at what they're offended by and to be offended and to punish the other side for how offended they are. and that that's been a mistake and that people are tired of people telling them how to feel and who's bad and what's wrong. And that you need to be, instead of being offended, you need to be offensive. And you have to go at your opponents and blame them for what's wrong and make sure these lawmakers are being told constantly, you own this. You own this. I'm running against you and you own what he says. You own what he does. And don't tell me that you don't say what he says.

says, no, no, if you don't speak against it, what you ignore, you empower and you own, be offensive, be on offense, be attacking what's wrong and saying it's got to change and I'm here to change it. Maybe I didn't do it in the past, but I see it differently now. And our politics is all about rebirth, that that's the space. And I think that you're giving up that space if you get, because people are going to follow your lead. I'm seeing it already. And I respect that about you. But the idea of I can out Trump Trump. I don't know that that gets you where you want to be in the midterms, and isn't that what matters, is winning the most elections?

Chris, be sure your brother sees defollow what I'm getting ready to say. All right? In the 90s, the late 90s, I decided on my own that Ken Starr was a threat, was not a good guy, that this was all hypocrisy and pars and crap. People were going, oh, my God, you can't say that about Judge Stollman. Oh, God, he's a man of integrity. Oh, he's a man of integrity. They always served in the court of appeals.

Oh, my God. You know what? There was one word to describe me. Correct. In 2021, early, 2021, I said, this identity woke shit is killing Democrats. They need to get out of that. It's stupid.

It's politically not, not only is it not productive. It's damning. You know what? I was right. Throughout 2023, on your show, repeatedly, I said, Joe Biden should not run for re-election. I went so far as to say on July to 7th of the year 2024 that he should drop out in President Clinton,

President Obama should invite six people and have four town halls around the country. You know what? I was right. In each and every one of these situations, I was told by the smart people, oh, no, this is not good. You don't understand. You got to do this. And I am convinced, more convinced,

that I'm right about this, that I was right about Star, that was right about Woke, and that was right about Biden not running for president. That is my history. And I, like I said, I didn't come to this likely. Just like when I said, Biden shouldn't be running for the election. I called people, said, man, I'm, you know,

I've never done this for in my life. I love Joe Biden. I can't believe how much I like him, and I can't believe I'd do this. But I cannot see a way out until a person said, James, you've got to do what you feel. and I can understand how you feel that way. And that's where I am now.

And like I said, I'll give myself credit. But in their 80s, you get to brag on yourself a little bit. I've been right on three big issues, and I'm convinced I'm right on the fourth. Look, I don't know that you're wrong. It's about whether or not it motivates the change that you want to see. I don't know. I'm not arguing that you're wrong about Trump. That's easy.

That's easy. It's about whether or not you're right about what. what wins more elections. And let's look at it through the prism of past and present. Do you believe that what you're saying right now beats Bill Clinton's approach that he took against Reaganomics and Bush? So no one ever thought in the deepest inner recesses

that President Gray and President Bush didn't like the country. All right? That call, during that situation, you said, look, I completely disagree. A trickle down. I completely disagree with cutting food stamps or a different vision of the social segment. At no point did Bill Clinton or anybody around here, anybody in his government remotely think that Bob Dole was acting intentionally against the interests of the country. It is a different time.

this is this is a time where we're not this is not bob dope all right this is not George Pataki this is not governor Tom Kane of New Jersey this is an imminent threat to the United States and calls for different tactics than you running against someone who you think has the wrong ideas and the wrong priorities support for the Chris Cuomo project comes from cozy earth look I dig it I dig the betting and I did dig the leisure wear. Why? Same reason for both. I like companies that find a way to do well by doing something that I consider good. They use for their fabrics bamboo, what they call viscous bamboo. I've never heard of called that before, but I looked it up and I get it. And it is a way

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BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. How do you explain James Tala Rico's traction in Texas? Look, I don't know that he can win in Texas. I think Trump did him a big favor by putting in Ken Paxton. I think John Cornyn, I know he got crushed in the primary, but that's just the Trump base. I think John Cornyn has much more strength against Tala Rico than Paxton does. But Tala Rico is getting a shit ton of traction on a very different and more Clinton-esque persuasion. Suppose, because your brother has superb political instincts, understands the big feeling. Well, he kind of agrees with you. But, you know, he's a little bit more nuanced.

If we were having it, Andrew and I were having a conversation, let's just say, it ran into each other at the bar at Lowe's Regency in midtown. And you were bonding over your mutual disrespect for me. And I said, Andrew, just two years ago, how do you think a Democrat could win taxes? He can go, well, in honor, just a lot of things have to fall in place, James. First of all, it has to be really bitter Republican primary and has to be a runoff. and they have to spend a lot of money attacking each other. Check. You would have to have a Democrat in a primary who beat at urban progressive,

which would give them the patina of standing up for Texas or that kind of act. Check. You would need an environment that was overwhelmingly in favor of the Democrats because under just a normal election year, just given everything, you can't want to say that. check, right? And I'm saying that Tarrico, the good

things that had to happen for him have happened for him. Now, it's a long slog uphill. He's generated a ton of enthusiasm. And I think he's also, people see him as somebody young, different, et cetera, et cetera.

But this thing could not, from the vantage point of a Democrat went into the Senate seat in Texas, pretty hard to think I could go any better that it's going right now. Now, the bad news is this is June to what. Yeah, you got time. Yeah, time.

They've got time. And you say equal incomes because they're going to come and they're going to say he's not like us. He's weird. Jim Freaker Rico, six genders, veganism, you name it. I mean, you already see it coming. And a lot of it's going to depend on Talrico's skill. All right? How can, you know, can he be Bill Clinton deflect these issues to something different?

and at the same time, cut a ridicule and people were making the charge. I don't know. That's a high bar to pass. But so far, I don't have any reason to believe that he can't pass that bar. And like I say,

everything that would have to happen has happened right now. We've got a long way to go. I think that the better case for your persuasion is Platner. Why? Because he checks a Trump box in terms of the analysis,

not personally, which is what? When you hook up with what people think is wrong and what they're pissed about, they'll forgive anything about you. As long as they believe that you believe in what they feel and that you're going to do something about it or that it pisses you off too, they don't care about you personally the way they assess anybody else. That's the Trump magic. Platner has some of that on them because he's got no business being where he is right now. And he is much more aligned with your thinking.

I will punch you in the face, literally. And Collins is weak and has been there for all of Trump's stuff and her resistance has been nowhere near enough and she's got to go because we're angry and we want to fuck stuff up. And Trump is at the center of my target. So people ask me about Plata. First of all, four combat deployments.

Okay? And I wouldn't argue that he doesn't. By the way, in all of the people, You know what all four have in common? These were wars that Susan Collins supported. Yes. Have we, okay. And I, I hope, if, I'm not going, I don't know whether the other can't diagnose a guy.

But if you went and you had four departments and have some kind of effect on your mentality, it would be. He had PTSD and he struggled and that explains a lot of his earlier stuff. I don't have, I have, I understand that. And that, that's the, the larger issues. dealing with this from Susan Collins' wars. And I think people see that. And they say, you know, I would be radicalized myself if something like that happened. And maybe it would be a good idea in the United States Senate to have a veteran,

to have a veteran who has struggled with mental issues and put him on the Veterans Affairs Committee. Because he's not the only veteran. He's not the only combat veteran that's not profoundly affected by what happened to them during these wars. Agreed. Agreed. But isn't he more instructive of the point that it doesn't matter because he's right about what's wrong? So people aren't going to analyze him the way they analyze somebody else. And you make Elijah's.

So let's go back. Franklin Roosevelt, Wilson Churchill. Who did they work with? Well, Joseph Stalin. Well, this is saying, blah, because there was a larger good here. There was something else. We couldn't, you know, today's progressives, well, my God. Stalin killed

He was even worse than Hitler. He may have been, but they perceive that the threat I think correctly. And we never go in history and say, well, I just can't like Franklin Roosevelt because he sent Stalin billions of tons of equipment.

Or Churchill sunk off during the war to meet with him in Moscow. Or he was at Yalta. He was at Tehran. He was at you name it. Terran. when you saw something like this, sometimes you make alliances that you would might have made

under a different set of circumstances. Right. I think what's wrong with Platna and given... By the way, I was for Janet Mill so that people of Maine didn't listen to me. I did a video for it. But I think Platna might be just

his ideas and the things that, his courage, his imperfections are imperfections that we can all identify with. Yes, and also I think there's forgiveness because people care more about themselves. Look, we haven't even mentioned yet, which I'm sure you're just sick of hearing, but of one of four points and the other four points were equally as instructive of what works in an insurgent campaign as the one that everybody talks about, which is it's the economy. That is the truth.

People care about themselves in their pockets, and they get distracted into believing and caring about other things. But at the end of the day, most people decide late and they decide viscerally. And the biggest pull on your stomach is your pocket. And I think that that explains Graham Platner, and that's the end of the analysis, that they'll forget, just like with Trump. He was right in their minds about what's wrong. So they don't give his shit how many pussies he grabs. They don't give his shit about his marital life. They don't grab her sick. And yes, they'll indulge in that stuff with other politicians. And they'll call for their heads. But that's because they don't feel any allegiance to them. And once you believe that someone is right or die for what

matters to you, you'll forgive a lot of things. And that has always been my understanding of why I don't go crazy watching what Trump gets away with as the true Teflon Don. I get it. That's why Platner did well. That's why Mom Donnie beat my brother's ass twice. And yes, he had help from Slewa. And I don't know that he would have beaten my brother without Slewa. And yes, I still believe, and will, always believe my brother would have done a much better job for the city, but that's my opinion. That's what I think I agree with. You and I'm sympathetic on that. He's not even getting him to me. Mom Donnie. Mom Donnie has real concerns with his affinity, defense, nonchalance about extreme Islamism. However, even in New York City, he was right about what was wrong for the many and that it has to be disrupted.

and that gave forgiveness for everything else, and it continues to. So how do we apply that to what we're discussing in the main here? And my concern is that you're missing what will matter most to people. First of all, I think it put it in an old metaphor, people can walk and shoot down. They can know that they're doing poorly economically, and they can know that there's thievery going on at the highest level of the United States government. Those two thoughts, people are ready home. But going back to the economy thing, Moody's, and everybody knows what Moody's is.

And they're so respected. If they downgrade your state in New York's credit from AA to AAA, it costs money. You've got to pay more in interest because they rate all of that. Moody's has concluded that this law, which started in February, today, has caused, has increased the expenses of the American average household, $750. dollars. And this is one of these instances where, you know, there's a downturn. And you say, oh, come on, James.

We know that it's seasonal. It's the invisible hand. You're going to have jobs. You're going to have downs. Presidents really don't have that much effect on the economy. It's all overblown. You're political consultants. You use it every four years.

Okay. It's some truth to that. The current, particularly as it relates to the cost of energy, is 100% Trump's fault. A hundred percent. There was nothing that forced him into this. It was not the invisible hand. This wasn't great. But that's on here. And he, well, the egg prices, they had an avian flu. And his only justification for it, not the lie that it's better, not the lie that it was even worse when I got in. But the only justification he had just collapsed on itself, which was, hey, gas is going to be a little bit higher for a second. but we're going to keep our biggest enemy from having a nuke.

People now know if they're thinking, if they're paying attention, there was no imminency of a nuclear weapon. The regime wants one, sure. They're trying to get one, sure, but it wasn't imminent. We didn't have to do it now this way. So his last rationale for prices fell away. But Jimmy, here's my point. The conversation we're having right now,

I think is a winning one for you. It's hard for me. If I'm running for Congress against you as a Trumper, and that's what I am if I'm not a Democrat, I'm a Trumper. And they can say, no, I'm not. Fuck you. Yes, you are.

If I were running for Congress, I would have a different mission than being an aging. You are the spirit animal of the Democratic Party. Again, again, I would have a little bit of a different mission. But we see this direct coalition. One of the things that because I live in New Orleans is energy, particularly all in gas, is big industry. I have a lot of friends in the industry. And when you get them to explain what this means and what it's going to mean, it's even worse than you think.

Because maybe if you could find a good one, you could interview them on your podcast because that all takes about four months after it leaves. The fact that it doesn't come here, it doesn't matter. It's a worldwide price. It goes up like a rocket and it goes down like a feather. That's what the economist said. And I have a theory, and most people agree with this if you do. Because of this, there's going to be a 10 to 15% risk premium on every barrel oil. So if the market said oil should be $70 a ballot, it's going to be $78.

Because they say, I'm not going to go and buy this and have this crazy son of a bitch start something else. and I'm going to be holding $70 barrel oil when everybody else is paying $114 a barrel. It's not just if this is going to have a effect, and then when we reopen the straight, of course, which we're going to do, it's going to take a long time to get all of that oil to China, Korea,

Japan, or whatever, or Thailand, wherever the hell it goes. And it's going to take a long time for refining capacity. There's no question. It is even more catastrophic than we even thought at the forgetting. There's no question. The fundamentals have been affected by his choices.

100%. Last question. Two parts. First one, you bump into the President of the United States. He's looking over at you. At first, he's giving you that look, which is not warm. And then he goes like this. What do you say to the President of the United States?

Well, I wouldn't be rude, but I generally try not to be rude to anybody. I would say, I'm sorry, Mr. President, I'd have a plane to catch. I'd love to chat with you, but. And he reaches out with his little hand and grabs your shoulder and says, hold on. Jimmy, why are you saying these things about me? At that point, I would be very aware that he's being protected by a lot of people, so I would want to do anything that would call him. anybody any concern that I wanted to physically hurt him.

And I don't see Mr. President, I'll say him because I believe him. You think you could take Donald Trump? Do you think I could what? You think you could take Donald Trump? Take him in what? You say you don't want people to think you're going to hurt him. You think that if you and him got into it in the men's room, what do you think happens? I wouldn't do anything sudden, okay?

I wouldn't like flinch like that. I know enough. You wouldn't. I get stopped. You know, I'm speeding. I put my hands on top of the stern wheel. And a cop comes and I said, officer, I'm going to reach into my pocket and I'm going to show you my driver's life. But if I know enough that I've been around the Secret Service long enough to know, if I saw Trump and he did something, I'm going to be goddamn aware.

I don't want anybody to get an idea that I'm trying to physically hurt this guy. But if you ask me, I don't have any doubt. God forbid, but why would you say because I believe him, why would you pass an opportunity? If it means this much to you, if you think it's this real, and this deep and this dark, how do you go with politeness in the face of the threat? Well, first of all, I would want to encounter to be as brief as I could possibly make it, because as it would longer, I might tell him more of what I think that would be kind of productive. But, like I said, he would have to call me over, and then he would have to, like, go a little bit further than that.

I don't want to be around yet. because I'm a guy that can get intimidated like anybody else okay he is the president of the United States he's got being protected as he well should be about 15 different people but it's the only people I've ever been kind of intimidated in one sense to be around is probably George Mr. Jim Baker Barbara Bush but most other people are up there very powerful how you do it I don't know why those three just intimidated me when I was around, but I was always on my kind of best behavior. It's because of what you saw about what their role was and how they did it.

Last question. Right now, what's your best sense of what happens in the midterms? Oh, right now, you know, remember, I know we have a mutual affection for Yogi Barra. And he said he is dead at the present time. Right. Okay. At the present time, we could win by a lot. But time is everything.

It doesn't like being dead. We could change, all right? But time is everything. Right now, right now, it's almost incalculable. So you have to ask yourself the simple question. What's more likely to happen between non-election day? It gets better for Trump. It stays the same or it gets worse.

Under any scenario but to first, the Democrats win the Senate. All right. But, you know, also, Yogi said predictions are hard to make, especially about the future. Yeah, yeah. I think you're a Mets fan, aren't you? I was, and then I went bad on them when they screwed the Jets in a particular football game. It's a whole long story. Oh, okay.

But my sports allegiances are cursed part. Until the New York next, hopefully this gets better. Yeah, it's exciting. Thank you. Jimmy, I appreciate you, and I love you. And I respect you so much. Thank you for coming on, as you always do, and help. in my audience, which I appreciate.

Always. Jimmy, you're the best. Thank you. BetMGM, an official sports betting partner of the National Hockey League, has everything you need for 2026 Stanley Cup playoff action. Hockey fans in Canada can place live bets every game during the quest for the Cup. Create same game parlays, take player props, and place futures on the 2026 Stanley Cup champion. Check out BetMGM original bets, hockey markets you can't find anywhere else. and it's not just about what you can do on game day. The betmgm app has improved its first line this season to include instant withdrawals.

Download the betmgm app and enjoy the NHL Stanley Cup playoffs like never before. Betmgm.com for terms and conditions. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1866-531-260 to speak to. to an advisor free of charge.

BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming, Ontario. So now that you heard it all, here are my takeaways, okay? And then you can tell me in the comments where we compare and contrast. He believes it. I think that is 80% legit, 20% theatricality. Why? well, I'm not saying he's lying. I'm just saying that, you know, this is about persuasion.

He's a persuader, okay? And I think he's acting in earnest. I do. I've known Jimmy a long time, okay? I got a lot of respect for him. And I think he has a measure of, or at least the monochum, a little bit of respect for me. Otherwise, he wouldn't come on and explain himself because he's not in the business of explaining himself. And he shouldn't be, by the way.

I get it. So I appreciate it. Because when he said what he would do if the president would do if the president would be, president called them over and my hypothetical, it doesn't check out for me. If you really feel that way, because I got to tell you, I've had a number of personal conversations with the president about what's going on, about what he likes and what he doesn't like in the news, about me, about my brother, about his race. I've had a number of personal conversations. And I tell him what I think. And Yes, I'm speaking to him as the president of the United States.

But I don't hold back on what my conviction is. I don't insult him, but that's only because I'm trying to move the needle with him. I'm trying to get him to see things in a different way. Not to know that what I think of him. Like, that's not the point. For me, it's not the point. The point for me is I want him to be doing things that matter to the many. So I want him to believe that what is good for him is what is good for us.

and hey, you want to get people off your back, man. Call in those health care bigs like you said you would. Get obsessed with fixing America first. Why did you back off the banks on the credit card interest limits? What happened? Those kinds of things. This is where you get traction. I understand where people on the left would be like,

why are you giving them good advice? Fuck you! Because my job, as I see it, is to help us get to a better place. Now, I'm not saying you got to love evil or whatever like that. But look, I just, I don't know of anybody who's ever turned down an opportunity to have access to a president when what they wanted to do is try to motivate an agenda that they think is for the best of the country. I mean, I don't know why I would pass that up just because I don't want Trump to win. But he's not running for anything right now.

And he's in this position. Why wouldn't anybody want him to do things that are good for the many? And I get that you're saying because he doesn't want to because he won't because he'll screw it up because he's going. I get it. But you can't punish someone for trying in my position is what I'm saying. So given that, I believe that when Trump called Jimmy over, if he was really feeling this, he should have lit him up. Not in a way that's going to trigger the Secret Service. but that he would take that opportunity to say, like, you're a bad fucking guy.

And if I'm wrong, then you better start showing me right away because your legacy is shit based on how you've behaved and what you've made okay. And he doesn't say that. So my first takeaway is that. Second, I am not convinced that the polls snapshot just in time can be wildly inaccurate. We know, we know, we know. The Democrats should be up by a lot more. Jimmy isn't wrong that they overperform in their recent cycles. But that's not a given. It's the trend. It's the trend can be your friend, but it can also change with the passage of time and we got a lot of time between now and when the midterms are. So at the time of shooting this, you know, we're in June. So you got months, right? Why are the margins so tight when everything sucks so bad and Trump's numbers are so bad and the GOP's numbers are so bad? Well, because the Democrats' numbers are so bad. Well, because the Democrats' numbers. are still so bad. Why? Why are the Democrats' numbers so bad when they are the alternative to what is

supposedly decidedly worse? Because it hasn't clicked for people yet that it can be better than this if it's not this. That's the only explanation I have to why the margins haven't moved yet. And that's why I believe that what will matter to the many, because three out of four of us, four out of five of us agree on what's wrong. So if you just own that space of, hey, let's just talk about what's wrong. It's all on his watch. And in fact, a lot of it has gotten worse on his watch. And if he wants to lie about that, I'll check him on those lies. But he is making it bad and I will make it better.

And here's how. Now, I get that that's harder than Trump is a traitor. I get it. I get it. But that doesn't mean it's better. Okay? I often find that most of the things that matter most are hardest, you know? They're hard to do and that the easy way is rarely the best way.

It's great when it is. Next. Are they listening to Carville? I think so. I think you see more and more of this hypermuscularity in response to Trump. That's where the profanity comes from. It's a little bit of why I use it also. is because I'm trying to trigger, I'm trying to provoke, I'm trying to do it in a way that I see as acceptable.

Why? Because I like the debate of, oh, so you're upset that I used an expletive and not at the idea that is motivating that expletive. You have misplaced priorities. You have a false standard of what is right and wrong. I'll have that argument. I think that's a good one. What I'm not going to do is provoke you and get a lot of clicks by telling you something that I don't believe or that isn't true. That I'm not going to do. Why? Because I think that's the problem and I don't want to be part of the problem. Why? Because I'm not broke. I'm not desperate for you to pick me. And I think that works to the benefit of critical thinkers in this current space where everybody is just trying to get you to click. That's it. I have more discussions in my life about thumbnails than I do about anything with the hours of research and interviews and talking and thinking and rethinking. that is part of the alchemy, the sauce, the stew, whatever metaphor you want, of the content that I create,

is that at the end of the day, that's really all it is right now is just content. And either it's clicked on or it doesn't matter. And look, that's the way it is. And I signed up to be part of that. So that's what I got to deal with. But the provocation business is making everything worse. I don't think Trump gets this reelection if we're not in the social media age. magnified minorities in a way that never would happen in what you used to call mainstream media or whatever that means, because now it's like a bad thing.

I do not think independent media to this point has been shown to be a net positive. I think there are plenty of independent journalists who are absolutely net positives. Harwich, Schellenberger, Taibi, there are a number of them. Okay. And I look at a lot of their stuff, and I think there's a lot of their stuff. and I think there's a lot of value in that. But I just think that they are the minority and that the majority is people

who are just rank opportunists and bullshit artists. So I do see that they're following Jimmy. I just don't know that it gets them where they want to be. And I'm not saying that they're wrong to feel the way they feel about Trump. That's a very slippery slope. It's a very dangerous place to be in politics

is judging people's feelings. And that's not what I'm trying to do. What I'm trying to do is figure out how do we get to a better place? And I think that what MAGA is doing is anathema to the American ideals and what we're supposed to be about and what our focus is supposed to be on in government and our discourse and the level of debate and dialogue and what the activity curve should be. I think it's all fucked up right now. And I think a lot of that is by design of this administration. And I don't think it's helpful. So that's my goal. So is that a

Jimmy's goal. Yeah, I think so. I think that right now he's deep in his fields that this guy's the worst he's ever seen and it's intentionally so. And he can't really see past that, but he doesn't really need to. He's not running somebody's campaign. I see more merit in Tala Rico. I just think he's in the wrong state. But I think the way he is is the best, not because he's a freak and he believes all these stupid things that you want to believe, but his take on his Christianity as it applies to him as a public servant. And what's going wrong right now, I think, is spot on. I think the same thing about Platner.

I think the same thing about Mom Donnie. Is that anybody on the left that is grabbing on to the economic realities and disparities is in a very strong position in our politics right now. And I think that what MAGA was about at its best is still there. And in fact, it's broader, deeper, and more meaningful than, than it ever was as MAGA. That's why I call it mega. And no, I don't think it's a hate movement.

I don't think it has that prejudice kindling that MAGA did and still does. I think it's about the economic realities, the disparities and the systemic duality that people are sick of and exhausted by and a political culture that seems just okay with all of it. And I think that that's what's going to be made manifest if you connect with it.

And Trump sucks. Trump is a traitor. I don't know that that is as effective as what I just said. What do you think? Thank you for subscribing and following the Chris Cuomo Project podcast. Thank you very much for subscribing to my channel here and to my Cuomo Crime Time channel. Thank you for the early acceptance of it. We're just getting going. Got to grind my way into those fucking algorithms because my audience is not, you know, true. Crime seekers, even that phrase, true crime, as opposed to what? Untrue crime? Fake crime? You see, even the title of the genre is suggestive of what?

Artifice, subterfuge, deception. Why? Because these pod people are provocateurs, man, and they'll say whatever the fuck they want to say, especially when they have no bosses and they're not working on a legitimate platform. So, I appreciate you doing that. I appreciate you checking me out at Sirius in the morning, doing it for you. It's not for the money. I promise you that. Podcasts are the same thing.

And News Nation, every weekday night from 8 to 9, I believe in the cable space. I believe in my generation. And I believe that they're watching cable. And I believe that we're in the best position to make change in this society right now. Why? Because we're adulting. We got the money. We've got the knowledge.

We've got the power and position. And we've got the priorities. And we're tough. And we're the last generation that remembers life before smartphone domination. We know what old school is and we know what new school is. And we're in full effect for like the next 10 years. Generation X, I'm speaking to you and I'm speaking about you. And I look forward to speaking to you as often as I can.

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