The Chris Cuomo Project - Marjorie Taylor Greene Says Trump Betrayed MAGA

Episode Date: June 23, 2026

Marjorie Taylor Greene (former U.S. Representative for Georgia’s 14th Congressional District) joins Chris Cuomo for one of her most candid conversations yet, explaining why she believes Donald Trump has broken key promises to the MAGA movement, why she refuses to give unconditional loyalty to any politician, and why she says Trump—not her—is the one who changed. Greene discusses her growing disagreements with Trump, the future of MAGA, government spending, foreign policy, immigration, and the Jeffrey Epstein controversy that continues to divide Trump’s supporters. She also shares details of conversations she had with Trump about the Epstein files, explains why she believes many voters feel betrayed by Washington, and argues that political leaders are demanding loyalty instead of delivering results. Cuomo and Greene debate whether MAGA is still the movement it once was, what happens when political identity becomes personal loyalty, and why so many Americans remain frustrated with both parties despite years of promises from Washington. The conversation also explores the midterms, populism, America’s political future, and whether either party is addressing the issues that matter most to voters. Join The Chris Cuomo Project on YouTube for ad-free episodes, early releases, exclusive access to Chris, and more: https://www.youtube.com/@chriscuomo/join Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Try QUO for free and get 20% off your first 6 months at https://www.quo.com/CUOMO Get 30% off your entire order of Soul Mood Gummies at https://GetSoul.com with promo code CUOMO Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's O-D-O-O-O-com. You want to know who can tell you how to beat MAGA? And this is going to blow your mind and you're going to be like, give me a, just hear me out, but more importantly, hear her out, okay? Marjorie Taylor Green. I know, I know. And by the way, she's not here for it. Okay?

She does not want to go back and relitigate and I was about this and I said that and Q and on this. She doesn't want to do it. She doesn't want to own it. I get it. It doesn't really matter the way she can tell you what went down that, in her opinion, destroyed MAGA. And what Trump really is and where his people now are and how much opportunity there is to actually own the best part of that populist movement. of all these millions of people, many who used to be Democrats, who are right about what's wrong with aspects of our economy

and how available they are. So if you want inside scoop about how this went down and what happened with her and MAGA and what it means for the midterms, welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. I'm Chris Cuomo, and that's what I'm here for. And look, early on, this interview is going to look like it's about to end, but that's just noise.

We get past it and we get into the signal of what you need to hear if you want to see things change for the better in this country. Marjorie Taylor Green is absolutely worth listening to. If you want to see MAGA turn into anything that can mean anything for this country, if you want to see Trump gone and better days to come, listen to this. So let's just start with the most interesting. thing, which is us. You and I have never spoken directly before. Obviously, I have been covering you since you came into politics because you were very, very emblematic of what the draw and power and scope of MAGA was. So that's how I was introduced to you. You were like the spirit animal

of what Donald Trump's populist movement was supposed to be. And let me guess. Actually, no, I don't have to guess. What did you think I represented in the media landscape? You can be honest. Oh, early on, I definitely thought you were the fake news media and the lying left in the press. And to me, you probably represented the part of the media that I felt lied about me every single day and mischaracterized me. And how did you feel that you were being miscast? Well, I was name called, and I'm not specifically talking about you, but just I'm generalizing.

I was called all types of names in the mainstream media. I was called a Nazi, a racist, a bigot, anti-Semitic. I was called all types of names, names that I had never been called ever in my life before I ran for Congress in 2020 by all the people that have known me or met me. in the real world and know me as a person. And so when I ran for Congress in 2020, I call it the political industrial complex. They characterize you,

basically create a character of you that isn't real. And that's the character that gets sold in the media or in your opponent's fundraising emails or your opponent's ads and on the internet. So that was my experience when I first entered politics. And I had never done politics before. I didn't hold a state house position or a state Senate seat. I didn't even go to my local Republican meetings because people didn't know when I ran for Congress,

I was criticizing Republicans just as much as I was criticizing Democrats. So when you look back as to the things that you said and, and how you presented yourself early on. What is your take on what you would have done differently or what you understand about why it went the way it went positive and negative? Well, in all fairness, this is your first time talking to me. And you've probably only known me from clips you've seen short clips. You never talked to me in long form.

And you probably, well, I know you never went to any of my campaign stops and heard any of my speeches back then. So the things I was talking about was our national debt, which infuriates me still to this day. I was talking about corruption in Washington, D.C., talking about draining the swamp. I was talking about wide open borders, people coming across our border. I was talking about sending money, hard-earned American tax dollars overseas and foreign aid.

And so these were a lot of the things I was campaigning against. I always have been for term limits. I signed that pledge and co-sponsored that bill when I got to Congress. So many of the things I was talking about, I still totally feel and agree with today. So nothing has changed about my opinions, many of them policy-wise. What has changed, though, is the tone in which I say it. And that was something that I learned through my time in Washington, D.C. is when I got there, remember, I had never been in politics before, so I came in very naive,

extremely naive. I didn't know anything. And I was one of the most attacked Republicans when I got there. So my defenses were up big time because I was constantly being attacked and mischaracterized and lied about so many times. So naturally, as a normal human being, my defenses were up. So my rhetoric was strong, but I also had learned that style rhetoric from Donald Trump. And over time, and I saw Democrats do the exact same thing, harsh rhetoric. And I saw it on both sides of the aisle. And that's what I call toxic politics that to the point I met now, I want nothing to do with it. Because it doesn't solve problems.

It doesn't solve any of the problems that I originally ran for Congress on. Well, that's because that's not what gets rewarded. That's not what gets advantage. We've turned our politics into a situation where it's all about which side is worse, which is way easier than, I mean, if you and I are going to have a competition and the key for you to win is to just make me lose, that's a lot easier than showing that you're better than me. I mean, the analogy is our politics, I think, has become like, you know, you and I are on the

starting line. You know, you say on your market, set, go. and then you trip me. And then you just kind of like jog along. You don't have to run that fast. You just have to run faster than I do. That's what our politics is. So everybody looks at MTG and says,

she changed. Change. Your name and the word change is always within three steps of each other. So when you look back, what got it for me is I'm not an insulter. Like, you know, if you were to go back and look what I would say when we were covering you, that's, I'm not a gotcha guy. I'm not an insulting.

I don't do that. I don't give as good as I get in those things because I understand rhetorically, it's like a waste. So that's not what I do. I'll fight outside TV. I love to fight. I train in combatives twice every week. But this is a war of BS.

What got it with me, with you early on, is that you were presented to me as a conspiracist. This is a Q-Anon person. this is she's with Alex Jones on Sandy Hook and it was like that was the end of the analysis for me because that guy is a scumbag. He made up a lie about a tragedy that ruined a community and he did it for profit and we know this because his lawyer admitted it in open court. So that's what did it for me with you. What did I have wrong? Well, I've been pretty much, well first I want to say that that's completely wrong about Sandy.

hook. I would never call any school shooting say that it was not real. It absolutely was real. That's horrific. You didn't think Parkland was a false flag? No, I did not. And I'm on record over and over talking about it how horrific it is. And so I'm not going to be put on trial by you right now for things that I never said, because then I would be seeing you as the same person I thought you were years ago. I'm just giving you a chance to clarify it for people in the audience. I don't need to clarify. You're the only person that I'm having to clarify this with. As a matter of fact, I haven't had a conversation like this in quite a few years, to be honest with you, Chris. But I think you're doing this with me because this is the first time you're talking to me. So you think you have to do this

with me. But I'll be very matter of fact with you. I support the Second Amendment all the way. As a woman, I own many guns because my life has been threatened so many times because of the nasty, harsh rhetoric that's been said about me, and the lies like calling me a conspiracy theorist, and the lies saying that I think school shootings aren't real. All of those things have brought really serious death threats on me and my family, and I believe 100% in my right to defend myself. And if that means I have to unload every single bullet in my magazine because someone is coming to try to kill me, I will, I will. absolutely do so. So I just want to be really clear about that. And the other thing is, is a lot of the conspiracy theories that I got so-called accused of, guess what? Many of them have turned out to be true. And so I can hang my hat on that. But as far as, you know, differences and differences of political opinions, here's the problem in our country. Politics is treated like a team sport. And it's not a

team sport. And many Americans, as a matter of fact, most Americans I talk to are absolutely sick and tired and tired of the blue jerseys and the red jerseys because it's all a bunch of bullshit and it hasn't fixed anything in this country. So I bet you and I can agree on that. But if we have to walk down the entire road of Marjorie Taylor Green's history, because I could pull out garbage I've heard about you and pull it up and say, well, what about you, Chris, then I don't think we're doing anything productive here today. Now, if you want to have an interview about things that are current and ask me legitimate questions instead of trying to run me back down the trail of you said this or you said that, then I don't want to do this at all today. But I will have an engaging,

productive conversation with you if you are willing to do that. I get it. I get it. You just, little context. I am not. We didn't need the context. Well, but my audience. No, no, no. No, your audience didn't need it. No, your audience didn't need it. I've been on your network. You've got to trust me on this. I don't believe you because I walk around in my own skin every fucking day. And I have not had to have this type of interview in years.

I understand that. I understand. I'm just telling you that. No, I think you maybe understand it now because I had to tell you this. No, I look, Marjorie, I get a lot of the same things that you're talking about. You know what I mean? I'm a little bit of a hybrid in this. You know, I've been complaining. I've had a lot of people say a lot of things.

And you should know not to do it to other people. How about that? But I'm not doing it. I didn't accuse you. Yeah, you know, you have done it. Yes, you have. No, I'm not. I'm asking you to clarify.

All right, anyway, look, I get why you're sensitive. I don't need to clarify. I don't need to clarify lies about me. I get it. That's it. I get it. I get it. So let me ask you this, because this was the point of it.

The change. You say, I didn't change. Trump changed. Not me. Is that entire. true to you? Yes, and I think it's true to many of the people that voted for him. We've watched that unfold, literally, right in front of our eyes. Over the past year, I would say especially the past year, he campaigned. I campaigned with him. He campaigned on no more foreign wars,

no more regime change. Wait, hold on. So on that one, he says, so let's, you know, he says that we're doing to him what you say I'm doing to you. and I say it's done to me. He says, no, no, no, no, no. I said no more forever wars, but I also said, which he didn't say, but he does argue this, that Iran can never have a nuke. So I'm only doing what I said I would do, which everybody else was afraid to do, including Marjorie Taylor Green, which is I stood up to Iran. Nothing changed. Do you believe that? Well, months ago, former DNI Tulsi Gabbard testified before Congress that Iran was nowhere near having a nuclear weapon. And so did many other nuclear regulatory agencies.

That's true. That is on record. That is true. And so President Trump was also informed of this. He was briefed on it many times by many different people. So if he is saying Iran can never have a nuclear weapon, he was told that Iran is not. nowhere near having a nuclear weapon, but he still chose to go to war against them. Why do you think?

So in my opinion, that is breaking a campaign promise. That is breaking a campaign promise, and that's my opinion. And that's also the way many of the people that supported him for so many years on this issue, especially, feel this way. And I'm not Donald Trump. I can't say why he, but I can guess and give you my opinion. What's your guess? But he's also, well, he said it himself. He went to protect Israel.

He went and bombed Iran with Netanyahu in coordination with Israel. And he is on record talking about that. Do you think that the people around him told him things that were untrue? Or do you think, at least part of it was, wow, it's going really shitty at home? And this Venezuela thing worked really, really, well, I think. So let's stick with that and let's beat up the bad guys abroad because it's not working at home. Do you think that was any part of it? I have no idea. That's not something that I've speculated on exactly. I think based on what he said and information that I've read is that he did

this in coordination on behalf of Israel because Israel really wanted the United States to attack Iran and then the excuse became, we're freeing the Iranian people. And they're not freeing the Iranian people at all. As a matter of fact, they've murdered the Iranian people, including children at an all-girls school. And that's horrific. And I would call that a war crime. And he's done this in coordination with Israel. And they kind of lied to us. about the girls' school. They didn't tell us the IDF was quiet about it. I think they were quiet about it because they knew we did it and they didn't want to get on Trump's bad sides. So they just said nothing. And then Hegsef kind of slow walked it. And I wonder, initially I was kind of forgiving

of Heg Seth because I was like, look, he's over his head. You're working for Trump. You got to say what he wants you to say. Otherwise, you're going to be out. So you have to understand that. But now I feel like Hegsef deserves the scrutiny because he is going out of his way to say things that are just not true about the situation in Iran. Do you see him that way in the mix or no? Do I have him wrong? Of course, I haven't watched all of his press conferences and his public statements. So I'm not fully informed on everything he said. What I did see him say is that that situation remains under investigation. And I think that's unacceptable, completely unacceptable, because everyone knows. And there's been proof shown that that school was bombed by the United States.

And they have evidence of, I think it was a Tomahawk missile that bombed the school. And it was also a double tap. And so in my mind, it's unforgivable. to sweep that under the rug and claim that it's still under investigation. And that's not the country that we are. That is not what the American people represent. The American people do not support killing children, which is also why so many Americans, including myself,

have spoken out to the thousands of innocent people that were murdered in Gaza and the thousands of innocent people that are now being murdered in Lebanon and children. When you come to the point where you're murdering children and unwilling to address the issue, you've completely lost the plot. There is no, I don't think there's any room, there's no place to stand on solid ground when that's something that you're doing. Support for the Chris Cuomo Project comes from Quo, that's Quo, a business communication, system that is built so you never miss a call. Boy, oh boy, is it easy for different forms of

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So Donald Trump's response to us is, boy, are you guys naive? I think you, you changed. You changed for the worse. Israel is an easy analysis for him, right? They're under attack. I'm with them. Right now he's in a tough spot because Bibi doesn't want to get out of the Iran situation. And Trump's going to have to use his leverage.

I think that's actually the easiest part of this for him. But he says, I didn't change. I am MAGA. Magas whatever I say it is in the moment. Marjorie Taylor Green isn't with it. She bought into bullshit about Epstein and she bought into bullshit about me for her own popularity,

but I'm still me. Trump is always Trump. You've changed. I don't think I bought into any bullshit about Jeffrey Epstein. He's a convicted pedophile and my entire political career was sacrificed on fighting against the president himself to release the Epstein files.

So nothing ever changed about me. Wait, I want to give you a chance on that. His people say to me all the time, and this is not going back to put you what you, this is something you're going to want to address, where they say, yeah, yeah, he never said anything to her about Epstein files and his friends and people going to get exposed that he didn't want.

He never said anything like that. What is the truth? The truth is he called. called me from the White House, and I was in my office in the Rayburn building, and I had a very tough phone call with the president where he told me that his friends were going to get hurt. He said, people that you know, Marjorie in Palm Beach, he said, they're my friends and they're going to get hurt if these files come out. And I said, I'm sorry, Mr. President.

I'm not taking my name off that discharge petition. Jeffrey Epstein is a rapist. He's a pedophile. And these files need to come out. This is what we campaigned on. This is transparency. And the victims deserve. And I actually told him also,

I asked him to have these women to the White House, to the Oval Office. He has all kinds of people in the Oval Office. He has sports teams. He has the new leader of Syria, who is a former terrorist. Yeah, ISIS. He, he, he had Mom Dani, the new mayor of New York, who he constantly attacked and criticized. He will have anybody in that Oval Office, but he will not have the victims that were raped as teenage girls by Jeffrey Epstein and other men to the Oval Office.

And I asked him to do that. And he absolutely refused. So I don't care what does people say. I will tell the truth over and over again about that phone call. just as I will tell the truth about the text messages where he said, and I informed him about the death threats that we had coming in on my own son, and I told him that it's, you know, I said, no matter the disagreement in politics, no one's children should ever be threatened or murdered. It's totally unacceptable. And he told me it was my fault and that I deserved it. Yeah, I got the same message. When I said to him, look, I know what I signed up for. I know what my brother signed up for. I get it. I get the Fredo shit. I think it's ethnically insulting. And you should know that as a guy who grew up around a lot of Italians, which he did. But I get all that.

But you're making my kids own this. And it's not right. I don't go after his kids and they're all adults. Now he's forced my hand because the son's getting involved with these businesses that are getting government contracts is just stupid. I don't know why they're doing this. They don't need to do this. But I never went after his kids, never, even though they're adults. And he, I got the same message. This is on you. Be nice, and then you don't have to worry about it. Wow.

So see, there's, if he said the same thing to you that he said to me about the death threats on my son, then he has a clear pattern of saying that. So he doesn't care if anyone's children die because we're disagreeing with him, which shows this. is why he doesn't care that children were bombed and murdered in Iran. He wouldn't care. He would say, I would deserve it if my son were murdered because he's calling me a traitor for standing with women who were raped as teenagers. And he's saying the same thing to you that if something terrible were to happen to your children, well, you shouldn't have said what you said and you deserve it.

Well, look, I'm sure he would say, I don't want to see kids get hurt. His higher value is, though, you're against him. If you're against him. But he doesn't. didn't say that. Chris, he never said that. He never said to me. No, he didn't say that. Oh, I believe you. If he had said that, if he had said, I don't want to see kids get hurt, then I would be saying he said he didn't want to see kids. But he did not say that. He said, it's your fault. You deserve it. He said, you deserve it. You deserve for your son to be killed, foregoing against him to release Epstein files. That's what he said to me. So why do you think he allowed the Epstein transparency crowd.

And remember, he put Cash Patel and Dan Bongino in positions of extraordinary power on the basis of this that they were out front saying, oh, there's a lot in there, there's a lot in there, and then he never delivered.

Why did he make it a part of the MAGA campaign if he didn't ever intend to allow it to come out? I have no idea. I can't even begin to answer that question. I mean, isn't that, If somebody came to you and said, hey, part of your next campaign is going to be like the three things that you hate about yourself, you would say, no, I don't want anything to do with that.

I don't want, that's not, that's not helpful to me. Why did he do it? I have, I have no idea. I can't even begin to speculate. You know, I often think when I was reviewing for this, there are people in your position. Now you got Nancy, I think, look, on Epstein, you have high ground. I mean, there's just no other way to see it. my opinion. I'm not saying that people should be, you know, pilloried or canceled or whatever,

but the idea of transparency is really simple. And that's what you guys were about. You, Nancy Mace, APL, Annapolina Luna. No, she didn't, she didn't sign her name on the discharge petition. There were only four of us, Thomas Massey, myself, Nancy Mace, and Lauren Bober. And Lauren Bober. That's who I'm thinking of. Lauren Boehbler. Yeah, Anna Paulina Luna, she refused to sign her name on the discharge petition. But do you see her as an ally in the Epstein transparency calls overall or no? No, I see her completely obedient

to whatever the White House tells her to be, which is why she didn't sign the discharge petition. She was just like the rest of the, all the Republicans were cowards, Chris, all of them. So first off, let's be clear, the Democrats never cared about the Epstein files. If they had, they would have gone hard charging into that During the four years they had control.

Fair. You don't believe the Galane Maxwell excuse where they say, oh, well, there was an ongoing litigation. No. No, I don't believe any of it because I never heard one single Democrat that I served with. And I served under Nancy Pelosi when she was speaker. I served all four years under President Biden. And I never, ever heard a Democrat bring up the Epstein files. They only latched on to it when they found out, oh, my gosh, people really care about this.

This is a big deal. Then they heard us talking about it. And then they latched on to it and all of a sudden they were all for it. So when it came to the discharge petition, you can only get a resolution or a bill to the floor for a vote only two ways. The speaker says, let's move this bill through committee and bring it to the floor for a vote. And then the second way is if the speaker refuses, which Mike Johnson had a lot. lock on that resolution because he was being told by the White House and by Trump, do not let that bill, do not let it get a vote. So we had to create a discharge petition. Well, all the Democrats

jumped on immediately because it was an attack on Trump in their eyes. But there were only four Republicans, Massey, myself, Mace, and Bobert that had the courage to sign on to it. And the rest of the Republicans were straight up cowards, even though they had campaigned on. and release the Epstein files. They only voted for it because the public outrage was so immense for months. Through the government shut down and all the months leading into that, it was the number one call that came into my office. And we received thousands of calls every single day.

God bless my staff that had to go through all the voicemails and answer the phones. But it was the number one call for months and months and months. and the Republicans that finally did vote for it because four of us held on on the front lines as we were being attacked and yelled at and being threatened by Donald Trump and threatened by the White House and threatened by Speaker Johnson and threatened by everybody because we signed our name on there. Well, finally, when we passed that discharge petition and the resolution did come to the floor for a vote, oh, all of a sudden all these Republicans found their courage and vote.

voted to release files. Trump signed it. He had to. That was the one place we forced his hand. He had to because he couldn't politically survive it. And he also signed it, Chris, and let's be honest, because look at what has happened. All the files have not been released. Because he is in charge of the DOJ.

He's in charge of the FBI. He's in charge of the entire executive branch that controls that key function. And do you have any question in your mind, whether Todd Blanche and all these other people are being straight with the American people when they say, no, we've given you everything that there is. I'll say this very clearly. Every single one of them, whether their intentions are good or bad or indifferent, every single one of them serve at the pleasure of President Donald Trump.

Therefore, every single one of them are under his directive and what he commands them to do. And that is the most significant thing that everyone needs to keep in mind. when they are seeing a Todd Blanche or a Pam Bondi or a Cash Patel or whomever it is, all of those people have their jobs because they were appointed those jobs by President Trump. Therefore, they are not going to cross him. They are not, I mean, look at the only people that have crossed him. There's only a handful of us. You've got Joe Kent, he resigned.

You've got myself, Thomas Massey, Thomas Massey, who just got, taken out in his election. You've got Nancy Mace, who just lost her election, and you've got Lauren Bobert, who President Trump has said he's calling for a primary on her. So there's not many. You put Tulsi on that list? Well, Tulsi, she resigned with her husband's cancer. I think Tulsi did a very honorable job, but I wouldn't say Tulsi crossed the president. Well, I don't think it's crossing either. You don't take an oath to the president. You know, you take an oath of service and his name's not even in it in terms of, you know, even in the office isn't in it. So when MAGA folks say to you, oh, you left us, Marjorie, I know that that's super frustrating to you because you believe you're still fighting for exactly what you thought it was about.

But how do you explain the support of the president within MAGA when a lot of the things that were supposed to be fundamental to MAGA have either. been ignored or actually counteracted? Well, the only place where I see those type of comments, interestingly, are on X and on Facebook. I only see those in my comments. I never run across that in person. I'm not kidding you. In person where I go to the grocery store. I go to restaurants.

I go to the gym. I go everywhere like a normal human being. And I never have anyone come up and say that to me. And so I think that's significant that the only place that exists is in the comments on social media. I also know that there's a prevalent bot problem on social media. And so I'm not saying all of these accounts are bots, but I do think a significant portion of them are bots because it's amazing to me. I can post something and I can instantly watch in less than a minute all these comments all of a sudden just. line up. And it's shocking to me, I'm like, I don't think anybody could have watched that video

and commented within 33 seconds. It just doesn't happen. And so that's a, that's, I don't really consider that reality. I consider the reality that I live in every day where I really enjoy talking to regular people and most of them all say that I did the right thing. Because I held true to my beliefs and my positions. I didn't serve a man because I'm a Christian and I serve God and I didn't swear enough to a man because I swear enough to the Constitution and the people I served were the people in my district. And that's the problem in MAGA to where it comes from the top where it's a loyalty test constantly and it's a loyalty demand. And I'll give my, I'll not give my loyalty to any man because I'm not an occult.

I'm not an occult. I don't serve some sort of weird religion where I have to do whatever some man says I have to do. Do you regret leaving public service and do you expect to return to it? I do not regret leaving the institution that has enslaved Americans in nearly $40 trillion in debt that does nothing to fix the health care and health insurance

horrific situation that Americans are living in. I do not regret leaving the institution that refuses to do anything about the fiscal cliff that is approaching in just a few years with Social Security. And I do not regret resigning after being called a traitor in having my life threatened and my son's life threatened because I sit up for women who were victims of rape as teenagers. and I don't regret leaving a party that didn't even lift a finger or utter even word of support for me when I was being treated that way. So no, I don't regret it. Not one bit.

I'm a normal person that actually fell for the fantasy and the lie that you can run for Congress and actually make changes. I tried to do that, and I got there and found out this is a system that you can't change, you can't fix because the system is completely broken. So no, I don't regret it one single bit. Is Trump just a feature of this? Well, do you think you'll run again? I have no idea what the feature holds.

So you're not closed off 100%. You'll see what happens. I'm just a type of person that in every area of my life, I go, I have no idea what I'll do in the future. So this is just like anything else. There are no ambitions right now. No, no ambitions, but I never had ambitions before. either. Jonathan Walton here from Queen of the Con with a brand new podcast series to tell you about.

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Is Donald Trump just an echo of the system, or do you think that he has changed the culture, changed the way it is, and if so, for better or worse? Oh, I think both. I call it the political, industrial complex because the whole system is disgusting to me. And I think both parties are terrible. I mean, look at the Democrats. They got completely destroyed in 2024 on several key issues. One of them was wide open borders.

Americans don't want wide open borders. That's a pretty simple one. Another one was the trans issue, biological men and women's sports. Women really want our own sports. We want our own places of privacy like bathrooms, dorms, places where we're vulnerable, where men don't belong. It was also the trans issue on children. This was an over 70% issue across the political aisle where parents and, and, most Americans believe that kids just need to grow up before they do anything different to their

body. It's not about being gay or straight. It's about let them grow up before they make permanent changes to their body. So these were key issues that Democrats lost on as well as inflation after COVID. However, the Democrats, they didn't go back to the drawing board and change anything. They didn't say, you know, maybe we were wrong to flood the country with millions of people. Or, you know, maybe we should respect parents and what they want their children to learn in school about gender and sex. And, you know, maybe men do need to stay out of women's sports.

They didn't go back and do that. They changed nothing. So we have this Democrat Party that hasn't come up with any new solutions, and then we have the Republican Party that has gone completely back on campaign promises that's repeating the same mistakes as the Democrats that has gone into a foreign war

that has driven, inflation instead of reducing it, driven gas prices instead of reducing it, and is not doing anything productive to help Americans' lives. So in my mind, is Trump, you ask this Trump, is he just a part of it? They're all a part of it. They're all a part of it, and they all refuse to change. And I think the American people are the victims of it because the American people are the taxpayers. And it's, I just think the whole thing is a disaster. I think he's taken advantage of it,

and I think he's taken it to a new low, stylistically and performatively, in terms of how he does it. But this is what the system rewards. I don't agree about trans as a key issue. I think it's a no-brainer issue for parents and for Americans, especially where the kids

and who should be invested with authority over their bodies, that was a no-brainer. I also think that the issue, though, was a distraction from bigger issues that do matter. Immigration, that issue transcended. I'm old enough to remember when that issue, everybody was basically on the same page, and both sides were just holding the dreamers hostage because each side wanted things in exchange for fixing the problem with the dreamers.

Even Trump used to talk about that. I'm going to take care of the dreamers. I'm going to take care of the dreamers because it's a no-brainer. Everybody knows that they deserve better treatment from the system. But that issue transcended and the Democrats fucked it up and they paid for it. I do see them, though, doing things differently now to win. I believe that the populist movement that generated MAGA is every bit as alive and deeper and broader now than it was in 2015. I call it mega instead of MAGA.

I don't think it's driven by the same kind of fear and these ancillary issues. issues. I think it's way more affordability based and that this system does not work. And the people it does work for are the wrong people. And I think that's what's coming in the midterms. And that's what the Democrats are trying to speak to. Well, just go back on the trans issue. I don't know if you're aware it was the number one ad in 2024. Oh, definitely. It was for Kamala Harris. She is for them and Trump is for you. That was a great ad. Great ad. So yeah, Both political parties do recognize that was the number one ad. So it really was one of the top three issues.

Right. But that doesn't mean that it's a key issue for Americans. You know, like for years, for years. It was in the top three, Chris. No, no, no. I'm just telling you. I get it. I get it.

I get it. You're right. It was only an issue. It's a recent issue because it was a recent issue that was shoved down everyone's throat during the, during four years. But I feel the same thing was done with what used to be called abortion or was called pro-life or pro-chew. Those were top issues, yeah. But it was made one.

And then once it became a reproductive rights issue, we have the first time in American history. A right has been taken from people. When you got rid of Roe v. Wade. No, murdering a child, an unborn child has rights. And so I'm unapologetically pro-life. I'm for women. But murdering an unborn child is something that really fires people up.

So that's why it was abortion was a top issue. And when you talk about children having mastectomies or castration, of course that's a top issue. So we're talking issues that fire up Americans like murdering an unborn baby. You know, I voted on a bill when Nancy Pelosi was Speaker of the House. I voted no because this Democrat bill that she voted, she brought to the floor twice, by the way, would have made abortion legal on the federal level up until birth. up until nine months. So there's a pretty good reason why people get fired up about the issue of abortion. It's not a reproductive right. Reproductive means having a baby. That's,

abortion means killing a baby. So that's, that is an important issue that I'm sure Americans, I hope, will continue to care about because I believe it's a moral, just like I believe it's a moral to tell a child that, no, you're not a boy, you're a little girl, or vice versa. And so these are important issues and I totally understand why it's important. I think they if you if you look at just the raw score, I mean, look, you can argue the morality. You can argue what it really is. You can argue when a fetus is a person under the law and as recognized with rights or not. But any way you cut it, the nature of these issues don't affect the many. But they work really well on the many as proxies for advocacy of a side.

And I think that they are getting drowned out right now. Like, I do not think the midterms will become about any ancillary issue. There will be no cultural war issue in the midterms. It's going to be my life economically is I am underwater. I cannot afford the things that I need to afford. It's not about my wants. It's about my needs. And you're not going to get to tell me it's,

not as bad as I think it is because it's probably worse. I think that's the midterm and I don't think anything shakes it. I agree with you. It's not the social issues are not the issues of the day. It is 100% the economy and it's people want America first. And you're right. They are doing a good job of saying that on the left where they weren't before. I find it interesting. I've watched Democrats pick up the same talking points that I used in 2024 and they're picking them up. and they're doing a good job with them, but I'll go back to this, Chris. They haven't changed any of their policies to make that rhetoric become a reality, just like Republicans had the same rhetoric,

and then they haven't produced any bills or policies that have made that rhetoric become a reality. So I give both parties a total failure, and I'm in that middle lane with many Americans that are just saying, no one is doing anything to help Americans. And that's a reality where people are. So I agree with you. I think issues that affect Americans, those are the issues of the day.

So what's the fix? The political landscape right now is the fastest growing part of the electorate. And look, you and I understand this probably better than most because we see how it plays out. It's that, yeah, you say you're independent, but then you wind up voting for the same party that you have most of your life. But it is proof that they're pissed off. So the fastest growing part of the electorate are people who are saying, I will not be. a member of either party. So that's good. But nothing really is changing systemically to empower independence because the states control the elections and they give the power to the parties because

they're all in parties. So they give the powers to the parties. What could change that would make it better? I think that's the best conversation. That's that can, coming up with ideas there is how you produce change and results. So in all fairness, voters aren't really given any new options yet. So if there are to be more independent candidates that aren't beholden to the party, there's going to have to be a lot more of them step out and run for office. Is that an easy thing to do? No, because how do you win?

How do you beat me if I have a party behind me and you don't? And we're in a primary structure. But, you know, so let's say you're super rich. okay uh let's say you know even you with all your name recognition and stuff like that let's say you know you and your husband invent something and you make a grigillion dollars and you want to spend it all on a campaign but i have the party apparatus so and i'm just i'm coming at you with all these resources and everybody's on one of the two teams except you so yeah and i may not even let you in the primary you may not even get in to run against me unless it's like a you know california or

Alaska where there's a jungle primary. How do you change those state level things that have such national implications? Well, at first it'll require people just refusing to vote for the party. They just have to refuse to vote for the party. If you stop participating in the current system, you force change and you bring about those candidates.

It is very difficult. Look, when I ran for in 2020, I didn't have the endorsement of Donald Trump. I don't know if you knew that or not. He never endorsed me. He didn't endorse me until I beat my primary opponent by over 20 points. And then a Democrat just couldn't win in my district. So he did the same thing he does with everyone. He just puts his name on a winner so he can claim that he created the victory, which is so ridiculous. But I didn't have the endorsement of Republicans in my state either. So it's possible for people to win. It's possible for people to do it, but there's going to just have to be a flow of candidates created,

and it's going to require the American people to make the change. That's where I'm at. That's what I really realized, Chris, is I could have spent the rest of my life in Congress and could just kept on having my conservative voting record because I came from a conservative district, but nothing would have changed because the American people aren't forcing it. And I think the harsh reality that people need to have the conversation is, well, you know, you know why Lindsey Graham continues to get reelected? Because you people keep voting for him. And if you want, if you expect different results from Washington, D.C., and you expect different results from your leaders, you have to stop voting for these people. And I think that we'll see a break, and that will become

more of a reality in the years to come, because the baby boomers and the silent generation, they are the most prominent voters out of all generations, and they're the ones that refuse to change. They will continue voting for their Democrat candidates. They will continue voting for their Republican candidates because they continue to watch news every single day that continues them staunchly in their Democrat lane or staunchly in their Republican lane.

But the younger generations are not that way. So I think it's going to take time, and it'll take some years for that process to develop. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg, a new fit that moves with you. It's everything you want denim to feel like for summer. Easy, breathable, and effortlessly cool.

With a fit that creates natural movement and a wide leg that feels modern, not overwhelming. Plus, that signature, wait, for this price, moment. Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg. Let me ask you about some of the things that are going on as big concerns of the moment. Do you think we have a deal with the regime in Iran that will be equal to or better than the JCPOA? I'm not sure that we even have a deal. And I hate to sound pessimistic that way because I'm very much against that war.

I spoke out against it back in June of 2025 when he first bombed Iran. That was also, by the way, one of the things that got me in trouble with the president and the White House. Me and Charlie Kirk and a few others, we got on the naughty list real quick for saying it was wrong. But do I believe, he said there's a deal like 38 or 40 times or something. I know they've signed the MOU, which I think is a great step in the right direction. However, Israel has come out and said that they will not stop their campaign in Lebanon,

and that is a red line for Iran. So how do we see this peace deal, so to speak, be successful if Israel is not willing to cooperate and they won't stop bombing in Lebanon, they won't pull out, and then Iran says, well, that's their red line. so I don't see how it'll be sustainable. Well, Trump has leverage with BB that he does not have on the regime. So we'll see if he wants to flex it or not. You heard what he said at the G7.

There is no Israel without me. And look, I get why, and my phone blew up with people being insulted by that, but that's this guy's style sucks. So, you know, to me, that's the noise. That's not the signal. Yeah, he's going to say obnoxious things. He has control over Bibi Netanyahu in a way he does not have with this regime. My concern is as soon as you, and this is why I could never be in elected office,

I get that this is hypocritical what I'm about to say. You said you wouldn't remove the regime. As soon as you said that, the only place you could wind up is making a deal with the regime, which hates you. So the only way to do this is to go in and remove the regime. I'm not saying go in and remove the regime because I don't know that we can do it. You know, it never works out that way. I spent a lot of my life watching American troops try to make changes in Middle Eastern countries and it didn't work. So I'm not saying that.

I didn't ask for this. But it would never work otherwise, Marjorie. There's no way you'll ever make it better with a group of people who hate you. Yeah, in my opinion, the quickest way to end that war is to just pull our U.S. military out. But then he has to say he lost. And leave the region. But then they'll say you lost. Well, he hasn't really won, in my opinion. But then, but, you know, I fully support, I fully support our U.S. military. But I don't think this has been,

I think this has just been like every other Middle East and war. It hasn't been successful. There is no regime change in Iran. The Iranian people have not been freed. And the Strait of Hormuz has been shut down because Iran shut it down. Yep. It wasn't any, nothing happened there that I would, would call great success.

And do I think that Trump controls BB Netanyahu? I actually don't believe that. I actually see it more the other way around. And which is a problem. That's a major problem. That's a huge problem. Huge. Yes.

And if he's, if he can control Israel, if he, I mean, what a ridiculous statement that Israel exists because of him. That's a ridiculous statement. You know, but if he controls Israel, then Israel wouldn't be killing children nearly every single day in Gaza and Lebanon, Rapid 47, and another one of their accounts put out the president saying himself. You don't have to blow up an apartment building every time you're looking for someone who lives in it. Yep. That's right. So he knows it's happening, but he's not stopping it. And a lot of Israel's military,

everything they do, they coordinate with the United States. So that makes us, complicit and they're bombing apartment buildings and killing innocent children while they're telling us they're targeting terrorists. And I can't agree with hardly any of it. And should we have, yes, there should be peace. But the biggest thing the Trump administration should do is just leave, just leave. And focus on domestic issues that Americans care about. If you do it, Mago would be so pissed. If he just got up and left, you're allowing yourself to be criticized by the Democrats for this having been a waste of money and a waste of blood and a waste of this. And now the regime is bolder than ever. He has to make it a win. That's why they lie so much about this. That's why he

has to say, we just had a great deal. We just signed a great deal, Marjorie. When you say MAGA, there's a major break in what was MAGA. So, oh, yeah, the only thing left of MAGA is cons, people that basically are spoon-fed propaganda on Fox News all day long, and baby boomers. That's pretty much the only thing left of MAGA. People like the America First Lane and a lot of MAHA has totally split off. So if Trump just said, that's it. We don't want anything to do with the Middle East and he pulled our military out. All of us would be thrilled.

We wouldn't see it as a loss. We would see that as a victory for America. and returning back to America First principles. For people like me, I don't want to have anything to do with foreign countries and wars, and I don't want them to have a single penny. I want all of those resources to be focused at home because this is where everyone I know lives. And so, you know, I think, but is he going to, no, he's for himself and for his ego, he wants to declare victory.

And he wants to be the harbinger of peace. but he's not because he's the one declared that declared war. Hmm. And when you look at the domestic agenda and health care, he said two things that I thought were awesome. And I wanted your insight into why you think they died the way they did. The first one was he said one day, these credit card rates, these interest rates, are way too high, man.

I'm going to call these banks and tell them, I'm going to cap them at 10%. The usury laws. We have laws. This is terrible. I'm going to the banks. Three days later, he meets with Mike Johnson, and we never hear about it again. Then he says, hey, these health care come. I'm calling in the health care bigs, and when I call them, they'll come.

And I'm going to sit them all down, and we're going to do it on camera. And I'm going to say, you guys are making too much money, and you're too vertically integrated, and you're absorbing all the profit centers. And we're going to make changes with you or without you. And they're going to listen to me. I loved those two ideas. Both of them died in early death. Why?

Well, Mike Johnson is not a successful speaker. Oftentimes he gives all these excuses as to why he can't get anything passed in the House. So that's one of the problems. But like when you talk about health insurance, this should be the issue. That should be the war they're fighting. And, you know, Democrats passed the Affordable Health Care Act back in 2010, and I'll never forget what it did to our policy. premium. Our family of five premium went from just a little over $800 a month to over $2,400 a month. It was more than our

mortgage payment, completely unsustainable. So the changes and the damages done from the Affordable Health Care Act have been lasting. And now we have the Republicans who constantly campaign and running on fixing health insurance never fix it. They just lie on the campaign trail constantly. And so it is, in my opinion, this is in the top three because this is what I heard constantly from my constituents, both sides of the aisle, also across every income level. It was amazing to me. I would hear from people that were in the lower income levels who struggled horrifically when the tax credits expired.

Many of them said I won't even be able to afford to have health insurance anymore. but I also heard from very wealthy people in my district, business owners, successful people who were furious about the fact that they were also paying like $2,000 a month for their health insurance premium. I don't know why he dropped the ball on that. I don't know why Republicans dropped the ball on it because whoever comes up with the magical solution that fixes this problem is going to be the most popular person in the country. But yet they avoid it like the plague. We saw who, it was a, you probably saw this, Chris. There was a video of a Republican congressman last week that the press on at the Capitol, they, they were asking him questions. They were asking

him about health insurance. And he faked a phone call, like, picked up his phone. And it, you could see the screen and it, it, it was on Facebook of all stupid things. And he faked a phone call to avoid answering that question. So I don't know. It's just shocking to me. What is your biggest point of pride in your time in Congress? One is standing on principle against the president of the United States and against the party that I supported that I'm very proud of that. I left with my soul intact. And And that's something I'll always have with me. And what do you wish had been different?

What do I? I wish that the president that I campaign for had stuck with his campaign promises. I wish that I could have, I wish that he would have been successful there. Make America great again. I always thought it was a worthy cause. And I thought that it meant truly that for America first, for Americans. draining the swamp, stopping corruption. That's what I believed in,

and I wish that that had been successful. But it's not. It turned into the same old garbage that perpetuates, and I think it's a shame. You think J.D. Vance can do better? You know, I don't know who is going to do it better. I again will point back to what I call the political industrial complex of both political parties. So I don't know if anyone is capable of doing it better with that system in place.

Do you think you have to be an outsider? Like, you know, when I talk to people about my analysis of Graham Platner, it was the same analysis with Trump. In a way, it was the same analysis with you. Once you were adopted by a populist movement, once a group of people say, here's what matters most, to us. Any level of scrutiny of the person that they pick as their agent, you know, as someone to run and on this belief system, they're not going to scrutinize that person the way I want them to in the media because you're not part of the establishment. You're with them. So yeah, you can say this about Marjorie Taylor Green. You can say this about Trump. You can say this about Graham Platiner,

or Mamdani, or Cuomo, wherever you want. We don't care because all of you are flawed, but this is our person who gets what we want done. And that's why Graham Platner, now that it's the pendulum swinging the other way now, right? Because that's how binary power works. He has tons of shit that you wouldn't want to own in your personal life. But it's not resonating. Even with the Democrats who are the canceled party, right? They can't cancel him. Why? They need their own disruptor that is attached to a populist movement of economic grievance. So they may cancel Cuomo, you know, they may cancel my brother, who's an establishment guy, but they're not going to cancel Graham Platner because they need his constituency and they need that Senate seat. Is that just cynical,

or is that the way to win? I think that's the reality for both parties. I think the voter base of both both parties have become so disillusioned and unsatisfied with both parties. I think the fact that the Democrat Party is now having to embrace Graham Platner just shows that they have the same problem that Republicans have. And I think that's just the, I think that's where we are today, as many Americans are starting to hate both parties because both parties are a failure. And so I think that's why we're seeing that happen. Hate is good, indifference, and insistence on change is better.

So, you know, hopefully they'll go through the same process. We'll go through the same process that you do on an individual basis collectively, which is you get down, something bad happens, you hate everything, you hate everybody, and then you get burned out on that, and you just start to figure out how to do different going forward. And hopefully we can get through, transit through the hate and outreach. phase and get into the phase of, well, all right, it's got to be different. What's different? Hopefully we get there. And I'll tell you what, I enjoy talking to you about it. And I look forward to doing it again. You're always welcome on any of my platforms to discuss how you see the state

of play of what's going on. And I appreciate you taking the opportunity today. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. Nothing like the cure that is conversation. Okay. Didn't like me before. Didn't like me in the beginning. But there's so much more ground for understanding what everybody's got to see is wrong and what everybody should want to get better. And that's what a conversation like this is about. And, you know, what I think of her or her past or her future or her rationales, none of that really matters.

What matters is her experience, the change, and what it says about the state of play and what has to change. and I think that's all super, super important. And we'll see what you take from it as critical thinkers. I can't wait to see what the comments are. I'm Chris Cuomo. Thank you so much for subscribing and following, checking me out in Sirius Radio every morning,

Channel 124, the POTUS channel from 7 to 9, the Chris Cuomo Project twice a week, of course. News Nation every weekday night at 8P Eastern, and of course, Cuomo Crime Time, which I hope you're subscribing to. Why crime? Why am I doing crime? because I wanted to use up as much of my day as I could. No, because crime is really the bastion of our connective tissue right now.

Politics has been so cheapened. So much is so phony and so fake. I really believe that the justice system is our last best hope right now for where we can come together and have legitimate disagreements, but agree on respect for due process and for how it's supposed to be done and that there are rules and there are right ways and there are wrong ways. And these stories all matter in society. People are dying.

People are being victimized. They're people like you. Their communities like yours and they demand justice. And I think that's a really important space for us as a society right now. And that's why I'm getting into it. So please subscribe to the Chris Cuomo Crime Time channel. Check out the podcast and subscribe and follow and let me know what you think. And thank you so much for wearing your independence.

This isn't one of mine. I gave away all my swag. I gave away all my stuff. My critical thinker shirt, my free agent shirts, my free agent hats, my Fix America First hat. People see it and they want it. And I'm glad. I'm glad.

I want you to wear your independence. And we got to brand ourselves. It's a big part of our political reality in our society today. You got to show people what you want them to know. I'm not you. I'm different. I'm a critical thinker, man. I'm not for just some party.

Okay. I am a free agent. It's a really important message. I know it's the key to us getting to a better place. So thank you for being part of it with me. The challenges are real. Let's get after it.