The Chris Cuomo Project - Mike Broomhead

Episode Date: March 28, 2023

In this week’s episode of The Chris Cuomo Project, conservative talk radio host Mike Broomhead (“The Mike Broomhead Show,” Arizona’s KTAR 92.3FM) joins Chris to explore why Mexican drug cartels and the fight to stop the spread of fentanyl could be galvanizing issues for both the left and the right, whether the United States would be better off with no political parties, the need for conservatives and liberals to seek out conversation instead of validation, the state of play in the Republican presidential primary, and much more. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

reasonable Republican, open-minded partisan. These are not terms that just jump to mind, right? But that's why today's conversation is exactly what you need. Mike Broomhead, huge radio presence in the Southwest, Arizona specifically, KTAR out there, but he is so much a dose of what we need. I'm Chris Cuomo, by the way. I don't know if you need me, but you got me. Thanks for being here for another episode of The Chris Cuomo Project.

Appreciate you subscribing, following, wearing your independence, getting your free agent merch so we can put together some money and get it away. I'm going to start wearing more of it, by the way, but that means I have to buy it. And I'm cheap, but I'm going to get more, wear more so you see that I'm kind of living my message. Now, speaking of living the way, but that means I have to buy it. And I'm cheap, but I'm going to get more, wear more, so you see that I'm kind of living my message. Now, speaking of living the message, I don't have any problem with people being partisan. I have problems with the party system. That's a distinction with a difference.

And that's what I'm going to be talking to Mike Broomhead about today. Yes, that's his real name. No, he doesn't like joking around about it. But he has a great take on why party politics is necessary, which he and I disagree about, and you'll see how, and what he thinks could be a galvanizing issue in this country for all people of all political stripes and types that we do agree on. But more than anything else, it's about the nature of his conversation

and how he reminds us that there's nothing wrong with being partisan as long as you're also particular about why you believe what you believe. So here he is, the man,, and here's the real talk. Over 40 years of age, 52% of us experience some kind of ED between the ages of 40 and 70. I know it's taboo, it's embarrassing, but it shouldn't be. Thankfully, we now have HIMS, and it's changing the vibe by providing affordable access to ED treatment, and it's all online. HIMS is changing men's health care. Why? Because it's given you access to affordable and discrete sexual health treatments. And you do it right from your couch. HIMSS provides access to clinically proven generic alternatives to Viagra or Cialis or whatever. And it's up to like 95%

cheaper. And there are options as low as two bucks a dose. HIMS has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers. So if ED is getting you down, it's time to pick it up. Start your free online visit today at HIMS.com slash CCP. H-I-M-S dot com slash CCP. And you will get personalized ED treatment options. HIMS.com slash CCP, and you will get personalized ED treatment options. HIMS.com slash CCP. Prescriptions, you need an online consultation with a healthcare provider, and they will determine if appropriate. Restrictions apply.

You see the website. You'll get details and important safety information. You're going to need a subscription. It's required. Plus, the price is going to vary based on product and subscription plan. The Chris Cuomo Project is supported by Cozy Earth. Why? Because I like their sheets. That's why. A lot of people don't get a good night's sleep for a lot of reasons. One of the ones that you can control is bedding. One out of three of us report being

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I'm doing well, man. It's great to see you again. How's the family? Good. Everybody's good. It's all, everything's good. My family was in that hurricane, Hurricane Ian, so they survived and everybody's recovering. Good. So do you want to talk state of play between the

parties first or what I believe could be the galvanizing issue for all of us in America? What do you want to do first? Well, I'm interested in the galvanizing issue because I have a couple of those for me in my mind too. I'd like to hear if we're thinking the same. All right. So Broomhead, for those of you who aren't already devotees of him, he is, I was just saying before, great melding of head and heart. Real conservative. Like, I mean by, like, authentic. Real. Not in terms of degree.

But he's what I grew up with as a conservative thinker, but he's much more than his politics. He's also, in Arizona, understands the Southwest very well, okay? Here's what I believe the galvanizing issue is, my brother, the Mexican drug cartels. Nobody's hurting us like they are. I believe in terms of everyday Americans, the number one national security threat, fentanyl is the scariest drug I've ever seen in my now over 30 years of being in the addiction and recovery game um i've never seen anything like it because and the key word is poisoning they don't even talk about overdoses right now except for people who are hardcore

opioid addicts who are taking fentanyl and know it, they're calling it poisoning because people think, now you can judge it any way you want. Oh, you shouldn't be taking party pills. You shouldn't be doing cocaine. You shouldn't be doing these things. Fine. But people do it and they don't know they're getting fentanyl in it. And it's causing massive overdoses and death. And to me, it's the great equalizer that all Americans could get behind. And it's not simply a border issue because they're in all 50 states.

The border issue gets conflated with it. The Mexican drug cartels and the fight to stop fentanyl, I believe in the next election could be the great knitting agent for someone who wanted to do such a thing. I think you're 100% right. That's all I've talked about in the last couple of weeks on the show. As a matter of fact, in Arizona and Texas, there's moves in the legislature,

bills in the legislature that would charge people with murder if they deal in fentanyl and somebody dies from the fentanyl. So you're right. I think there's some bipartisan support. Interestingly enough, I grew up in South Florida in the 70s and 80s. and bipartisan support. Interestingly enough, I grew up in South Florida in the 70s and 80s. And I watched the documentary last night called Cocaine Cowboys and the similarities of the narco-terrorists in South Florida in the 1970s and 80s and the death and the mayhem from the cocaine dealing and the struggles with law enforcement. And it wasn't until Reagan and then George H.W. Bush got involved that was galvanizing. That was an issue because if you remember, Reagan won 49 states in 1984. And I think helped. He was also running against Walter Mondale, the 50th state. The one state he didn't get was Mondale's home state of Minnesota.

However, yes, yes, yes. Cocaine Cowboys are similar. Two key distinctions. One, cocaine doesn't kill you. Okay. You got to work hard for it to kill you. Fentanyl kills you dead with literally less than the salt that I'm allowed to put on my eggs now and be heart healthy. The second thing is the Colombia deal that allowed us to really do interdiction and take those guys down was heavily a function of cooperation. And we don't have any of it with Mexico. So I don't think we could do there what we did there.

Can I interject also the other problem now me being in a border state was our huge connection as a nation and as a state with Mexico being directly to our South. This isn't a country, a plane ride away. We have so many people here in Phoenix in this area that have businesses and homes in a place called Puerto Penasco or Rocky Point in Mexico. And the family relationships across the border are huge. So there's bigger ties, but you're right, less cooperation between governments. Now, what are you hearing from the people who haven't just gone crazy with their politics, you know, down the conspiracy rabbit hole. How much is this resonating of fentanyl and to do something about it

beyond blame the other side? I think in this case, I think because of the direct, the overwhelming number of deaths with fentanyl, it's going to override the fight that we, like you said earlier, conflate immigration with border security. I think that this border security issue can finally be dealt with because a lot of people

on both political extremes realize this is a problem that has to be handled. Yeah, I agree, except I don't think the Democrats will dive into it because they're so afraid of the border issue. It's so bad for them that they conflate fighting the cartels with admitting that they failed at the border. And then they have part of their party that doesn't see that as failure. They want as much ingress as possible, and they don't think it's right to criminalize illegal entry as something other than like an administrative or civil wrong. So I think that's one of the reasons Democrats have been so quiet about this. You know, to me, immigration, illegal immigration is the same issue.

You need people in the country who got 10, 11 million unfilled jobs, but you got to do it the right way. You got to take care of the dreamers. You got to have better security, but most importantly, and you know this, but for everybody who doesn't know Mike Broomhead well, resources is what they need at the border. They need processing agents, they need tribunals,

they need places to keep people, and they need the asylum laws to be re-examined. Well, isn't it affecting, but isn't it affecting you in New York? Because I just read a story about New York that there's a 10-year waiting list now for asylum claims in New York. Yeah. Look, it's because asylum's too broad. You know, asylum was very simple back in the day. You were running for your life. Now it's usually economic. In fact, the Trump administration, which had a real gift in the form of this guy named McAleenan, who was the head of Homeland Security for a while, head of CBP before that, he cut

these deals with Central American countries, South American countries, and Mexico to do a lot more origination work, home state processing. And that was a big deal. And Biden's administration canceled a lot of them. And that was a big mistake on top of the political messaging problem that they had. So asylum now is largely economic. And the Trump administration had a really good idea, I think, to treat the cartels like terror organizations. There's a little legal issue here or there about what terrorism is under United States law. But the

reason they didn't do it in large part was because it would have created a new wave of asylum claims. Because if you're running from a drug gang, we don't really care. If you're running from a terrorist organization, we have to care. So that was an important distinction there legally, so they stayed away from it. They have to reexamine the laws, but nobody will do anything, I believe, Mike, and I want your take, because primarily there's more advantage in the problem than any solution. Yeah, see, and that's always been the issue, is that when you solve the problem, the problem solvers are no longer necessary. There's a congressman named

Juan Siskamondi, who's a freshman from Southern Arizona, and he spoke at the conference I was at recently, and he broke it down into three areas. He said the three areas of the border are border security, immigration, and commerce and trade. They are all independent, but they work together. And I think if we could get that message out and say this border security issue is an independent issue, you're right. We have to fix immigration and asylum, and it does affect commerce and trade. But right now, we're dealing with a security issue that's nationwide and killing people.

If somebody can get that effective message out there, I think something will get done. I would like to say that you are correct, sir. But I see no movement on it. I mean, even on the cartels, you know, they don't move a whole lot of product, as we understand it, through the desolate areas where, you know, people try to walk across. They are doing it through the main ports of entry. And they have their tunnels and they have their other different ways that they do it. They're very sophisticated guys. So you're not a wall away from stopping fentanyl. I don't believe you're a wall away from stopping anything. I do think you should have as much physical barriers as you need, sensors, whatever you need. but you need manpower and rule changes more than anything else.

We won't even do the dreamers, Mike. If we won't do the dreamers, what will is there really to do the right thing on the issue? And let me throw another idea out there. If we were to designate the cartels a terrorist organization, what does that do to the Americans that are working with them? Because if you're an American and you're an Al Qaeda sympathizer working with Al Qaeda, we have a whole different thought of what you are and who you are. Are we ready to say, we know that there's a huge number of Americans that are complicit in this and are making money on this. Are we ready to deal with them the same way we would with somebody working with Al Qaeda? Some of, not all of, but some of what is most scary about fentanyl, which is it being laced into other things. So you think you're buying a 30 milligram oxycodone, which a lot of

people use for pain, palliative care. They're too expensive, can't get the prescription. You don't have the right healthcare to get it. So they buy them on the street. And they are stamping a lot of fentanyl pills as Oxy30s, and that can be very dangerous. A lot of the people, though, that are adding it to things are in America. It's not the cartels straight away. They're doing it too, but a lot of the people who are doing what I'm worried about most, you know, you shouldn't take illicit drugs. Okay. People do. All right. You got to work on demand.

You got to work on supply. This fentanyl is different. It's the first time I've ever been scared. Like I'm a THC guy. I get it through the medical dispensary. I got my card. I'm registered through New York State. And I have my medical diagnosis, which is clinical asshole.

So I get my THC the right way. But with my kids, I have a 20-year-old, a 17-year-old, and a 13-year-old. I am worried for each and all of them. I don't believe the marijuana thing. I think they have found it, but it's usually cross-contamination, that they're not, you know, for different chemical reasons. I don't think they're putting fentanyl in weed, but I'm worried, especially about my college kid. I've never talked to them about this stuff before.

I've always said to them, look, you know what is illegal. You see what I do. You see what your mother does. You see what our people do and what we don't do. You know what I'm going to bust your ass for and what I'm not. You know, I'm not going to tell you what choices to make or try to scare you to death. You're going to learn your own way.

Now I talk to them and I say, hey, listen, I don't care how pretty she is. I don't care how handsome he is. They say, you want a little Molly? You want a little ex? If you don't know where they're getting whatever it is from, don't even touch it. I've never had that conversation. It's because of how deadly this is. My brother and my sister-in-law are cops. And my brother's a captain in the sheriff's office in Southwest Florida. And the way law enforcement is dealing with this, I don't know if you, I'm sure you've seen the videos of cops that are coming in contact with it, get overdosing. There was a woman that had to be a female officer, full uniform, body camera on, had to be revived with two doses of Narcan just from coming in contact with this stuff.

So I share your fear that people just think they're going to a party to have a little fun and they're dying. We've got to do something. So that takes us to the how, and that takes us to politics. Are you ready to leave the party yet? As I'm asking people to do all the time, you're ready to be a free agent. No. And I'll tell you why. Um, I still believe that if you leave them, what you're leaving it is to the people that, you know, are destroying it. And I'm not ready to. I still believe that if you leave, then what you're leaving it is to the people that you know are destroying it. And I'm not ready to say go ahead and take it and destroy it. I would rather kind of be a Puritan instead of a pilgrim.

And I'm still in that fight to say I think there's still a reasonable message within the Republican Party. Do you think we would be better off if there were no parties? I don't think we'd be better off without parties. I think we would be better off if more reasonable minds returned to the parties. So then you're calling George Washington a loser and a liar. Do I have you right? Yeah, that's exactly right. Quote me on that. Is that what you just said? I disagreed with Washington. George Washington said in his farewell address, stay away from parties. I know he did. So you're saying he was wrong. Is that what you're saying? I think he may have been right then. I know he did. So you're saying he was wrong. Is that what

you're saying? I think he may have been right then. I think in the current situation we're in now, we need to be able to identify where people are politically. And I think you do that with the parties. I think that if you're going to go to this rank choice voting or otherwise, I think you might end up getting more than you bargained for and not knowing exactly where people stand. And I think you learn where they stand to the primary process in your party and then in the general election. But we know they lie to us in the primaries because they've got to suit that small number. You know, they may not be in a party. They're still going to lie to you. But look at like a guy like a Governor DeSantis, OK? And first of all, a step sideways. You guys got to stop beating me up about talking about Governor DeSantis as a potential next president.

He is. Okay? I mean, he's thinking about running. I know that Trump is beating up on him right now, but he's not even in the race yet. And I'm telling you, the guy checks a lot of the boxes of a governor who you would look at and say, this guy could run for president. He may win. That's the reason I'm saying it. I don't have the guy's button on my shirt.

may win that's the reason i'm saying it i don't have the guy's button on my shirt anyway um desantis is putting together some real culture war uh constituency right now but you know that's only for early on you know that his play in switching on ukraine or the books or whatever it is where woke goes to die you know he's going to run away from that in a general So I don't know why we still believe that you need the parties to know where people are. Because I think what ends up happening is in your primary process, you rally the base, but the best communicators have dealt with people as Americans and not as partisans once they get to a general election. But you still have to win the primary. You still have to let your base know where you are. That doesn't mean when you branch out, you know, when Reagan says we were the shining city on the hill or Bill Clinton said,

I feel your pain or Barack Obama said, hope and change. They weren't talking to parties at that time. They were talking to Americans. Those are the best leaders are the people that can communicate to everyone outside a partisan line. I agree with you, but why isn't that making my point? Because the reason that they were able to win by speaking more broadly than to the straight partisans is because most of us are not you guys. The number one group is independent. So you have to talk to you guys in the parties, not you, because, you know, you're real conservative. You know, you're not Marjorie Taylor Greene or AOC on the other side. You know, you're a rational person about what works and why. But most of us in this country are not even you, Mike. You know,

we don't want to be Republicans. We don't want to be Democrats. Independent is a plurality of this country. Isn't that telling you something? It is. As a matter of fact, here where I live in Maricopa County in Arizona, the number one voter demographic in the largest county in Arizona is independent, followed by Republican, followed by Democrat. And it's the fastest growing. It's number two statewide, but it's probably going to overtake. So I mean, I know I'm trying, I'm disagreeing with you, but I'm making your point. You're right. Independent voters that are sick of both parties are making a big move, but I still think for the parties, they can respond to this and win over independence in the end. But why not do it the other way and like not have to deal in

your case with Marjorie Taylor green, or, uh, in the case of of a Joe Manchin, an AOC who chased the jobs out of New York with Amazon, you know, why that you guys don't belong in the same party? Then how do you do it? How long is it going to take for a system that isn't based where you've got candidates that are on opposite sides of the aisle because they're in different parties? How long before we can have candidates that just are the best options without parties? How long is that going to take? And how do we do it? The only way I know how to do it, because the adding parties thing, I don't see it. Not with the way the money goes right now, without term limits. They got it too locked up, the people in power. But I think it's about divestiture. I think that when the broom heads and, you know, my sisters, you know, like people

who like think about their positions, like care about their, my in-laws, um, uh, they were real Republicans, you know, they weren't Trumpers, you know, they were, you know, they were like, I don't care if he's saying that he's going to cut my taxes. This guy's embarrassing. You know, I would always joke with him that if they wouldn't let him into their tennis club, embarrassing. You know, I would always joke with him that if they wouldn't let him into their tennis club, they were never going to vote for him. And if those people, if people leave the parties and say, look, I'm not in the game anymore, I'm only going to vote on the basis of what I think of this man or woman and what they're talking about, you then just have to have the only systemic change. Unfortunately, it is state by state open primaries. Only the people with the

most money then get the voice. The vehicle is gone for the average person. You've got to have a ton of money. You've got to be able to get your voice out there on TV and radio. And if you don't have that, then you are at a severe disadvantage because you don't have a vehicle of a party process, district meetings and conferences and, you know, that rally the base behind you. How do we get that for the average person that doesn't have the money or the name ID? Fair point. I would argue that it's still always the wealthiest people because the party picks the people who can raise the money or that

they can raise the money for. But also you have to believe that with change comes change and there would be a lot of organizations that would bubble up right now that could be viable in the dark money space that, you know, now hide, that would come out and just push their people. You know, there are some organizations, to your point, if you look at the Chamber of Commerce nationally and the statewide Chambers of Commerce and local, they truly are nonpartisan in this sense. They're looking at what they believe is best for business, and that's revenue. If we had that kind of a system, I would join you in a minute, They truly are nonpartisan in this sense. They're looking at what they believe is best for business. And that's revenue. If we had that kind of a system, I would join you in a minute.

But what we are still seeing is people with partisan ideas that are labeling as independent. And how do you decipher all that without the partisan vehicles? That's my only concern. Yeah, you're right. That's an endemic issue. No question. But, you know, you don't let progress, you know progress be canceled out because it's not perfect. And I do think that, like, I had Fauci on the other night, okay? And I'm here at News Nation, I'm doing all the things that I was never really allowed to do because you had to respect the

larger institutional thinking of the place you were at, which is totally fine. I'm not criticizing it. I'm just saying you had to be mindful. And at News Nation, we're kind of like developing the culture. So within the bounds of decency, you kind of do it the way you want. So I started the show by saying, look, I like Tony Fauci. He helped me a lot when I was sick. Okay. And I watched him fight the AIDS epidemic and crack with my dad, which is when he got into public service. So I said, with that said, I'm now going to ask him all the questions about the Wuhan lab leak that are getting him killed. And what I've learned is, and we've talked about this before, Mike, my people are fishermen. They're mostly conservative. Some of them are independent. Some of them are lefties, maybe,

some of them are lefties, maybe, maybe, maybe not. Family men, a lot of them are churched up, and they're fishermen, and they're tough guys, mostly. And even the women are tough guys. They still tend to believe that Fauci is a liar, that Ukraine is dirty, that Joe Biden took a ton of money, and, you know, fill in four or five more just because that's what their team says.

It's just like when I'm talking to Jets fans. You know you suck. You know you're going to suck. You know Aaron Rodgers is going to get pounded into the turf and then he's never going to have step into the throws anymore. But you say that they're going to be great anyway and beat the Patriots because that's your team.

And that's my problem with politics is that it's more team than it is common sense. Yeah. And I think to your point, my concern is when I have doubts or questions, I don't want to get lumped in necessarily in that direction. But sometimes I think my questions are legitimate questions. I will tell you, I am a conservative Republican, but I got vaccinated. I got boosted. I thought it was the right thing to do. After a while, I look at this and I say, now I've got questions. I want to know if that was the right thing. That doesn't mean I'll put on a tinfoil hat now. I think I'm going to have heart problems because of the vaccine, but I've got questions that I didn't have before. How do we ask those questions without coming across like those conspiracy theory people

that are just believing it because their team said so? Oh, listen, you prove how to do it all the time. You ask the question. You just don't answer it. You know what I mean? So that's the mistake we make is that the questions are real. And, you know, one of the fundamental problems, and I used to talk to Fauci about this all the time once I got my head back after I had COVID. You should not have a scientist doing your messaging. Messaging is political. Politics is about certainty. Strong and wrong rules the day in politics. You move off a position, you're a dead man or woman because it's seen as weakness. That's the opposite of science. We have questions about the vaccine because even though

they know the technology, the RNA stuff, they've never used this before. We don't know. I still have long COVID. I don't even know what that means. I've had five different doctors who are epidemiology experts in the coronavirus area. Give me five different diagnoses. They don't know. Even the mask bullshit. How can a mask not help prevent the spread? That's why we wear them in operating rooms.

But even that we'll fight about. I believe it's not asking the questions, Mike, which you do awesome. It's that we answer them for other people on what we want to be true. We don't fake the funk here. And here's the real talk. Over 40 years of age, 52% of us experience some kind of ED between the ages of 40 and 70. I know it's taboo, it's embarrassing, but it shouldn't be. Thankfully, we now have HIMS, and it's changing the vibe by providing affordable access to ED treatment, and it's all online. HIMS is changing men's health care. Why? Because it's giving you access to affordable and discreet sexual health treatments, and you do it right from your couch. HIMS provides access to clinically proven generic alternatives

to Viagra or Cialis or whatever. And it's up to like 95% cheaper. And there are options as low as two bucks a dose. HIMS has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers. So if ED is getting you down, it's time to pick it up. ED is getting you down, it's time to pick it up. Start your free online visit today at HIMS.com slash CCP. H-I-M-S dot com slash CCP. And you will get personalized ED treatment options. HIMS.com slash CCP. Prescriptions? You need an online consultation with a healthcare provider, and they will determine

if appropriate. Restrictions apply. You see the website, you'll get details and important safety information. You're going to need a subscription. It's required. Plus, price is going to vary based on product and subscription plan. Look, no shame in my game.

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Go to drinkag1.com slash CCP. Drinkag1.com slash CCP. Check it out. So, and so I'm going to, maybe this is too personal of a question, but you are somebody that doesn't fit the mold of long COVID when you hear them talk about overweight, elderly. Yeah. You are still not, you're in great shape. And, you know, you're not overweight at all. Are they giving you any reasons as to why that's happened to you?

First of all, it's like, you know what it's like? Here's the best analogy. It's like, you know what it's like? Here's the best analogy. When you and I were growing up, I was told I had ants in my pants and that I, you know, I couldn't, I had no self-control. There was a box on the report card,

ability to show self-control. And in mine, almost every quarter, it said, see back. And some nun would tear into my, you know, tear into me for like half a page. Now I would have ADHD or ADD. They'd want me on medicine. They'd be talking about how I learn. There's been this expansion. We see with autism also, now it's a spectrum. The same thing's going to happen with this. There's so much autoimmune stuff. There's so much stuff going on that, like for me, for

example, I absolutely had a screwed up memory, you know, a memory-making system after I was sick. But is it also because I'm over 50 and I've been getting punched in the head for 30 years and I was in contact sports all along and eventually, you know, they don't know. The soft tissue stuff that I have. Well, again, is it because I've had guys like you throwing me on the ground for decades, you know, and I've been clanging and banging? Is that what it is? Or is it what they see with long COVID getting into joints?

You don't know. It's easy to box up fat people with a lot of preconditions, you know what I mean? And say they're going to have it worse. But I hear about it from people all the time. They just don't know. So what I'm saying is the unknown is real. Expressing certainty about anything to do with COVID or the vaccines was always a mistake. I got why they got tempted into it. The media, people like me, were pushing them into it. Because you want us to tell people to do what you're telling them to do. You better give us reasons why.

And the, we're not sure yet. We got to wait. That's not going to work from a public policy standpoint. But there are real problems, real questions. Long COVID, I don't know that I'll be alive when they really figure out what it is and what it isn't that's just presenting it as an autoimmune disorder. Yeah, well, you know, the other part of what you just said is with the vaccines as well

is the pushback against people. Let's go with the Wuhan with the lab leak theory. They weren't just told they were wrong. They were demonized. Same with the people that question the vaccines. I know people that are reasonable people that believe that hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin were treatments for this virus. If you want to call somebody wrong, I'm with you. I disagree all day long. It's the demonization of people that I think caused people to then just shut the door and say,

I'm never going to believe anything other than I believe. Yes. And look, again, here's the problem. For certain applications of a coronavirus illness that had types of pneumonia, remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine, those work on pneumonia. For different aspects of the virus, depending on how it was manifesting itself in the particular patient, there is an expansion of the off-label use of an ivermectin that might've meant something. They were seen as panaceas. You know, that's what got Trump in trouble is that, you know, you're a hydroxychloroquine away from being fine. When I was sick, doctors were sending me hydroxychloroquine. I didn't take it because we didn't know what to do. I always play scared with medicine. My wife gives me a hard time all the time, even though she's the wellness person.

I got my two shots, whichever one was the two shots. What was it, Moderna? I think it was Pfizer, right? Pfizer, I think, was one. Whatever. I got the two shots, okay? I have not gotten one since then because I've had one or whatever. I got the two shots. Okay. I have not gotten one since then. Cause I've had COVID three times. And my doctor said, you've had it three times. Okay. Um, and you

handle it well each time. Uh, I don't think you need to be boosted. So I haven't been boosted. It's not because I'm against it. It's that if they don't tell me I have to do it, then I just don't do it. That that's just how I am. I got my kids vaccinated, but I had to. Otherwise, they weren't going to go to school. I don't know any of these other shots we all give them as babies that give them that fever for two, three. I don't know. I don't know if we're giving them too many at the same time or whatever, but this is what they tell me to do. I'm not a doctor, so I go with it. Our problem is we turn skepticism into cynicism. That's where we are right now, where everything's a gotcha.

Everything is proof that the other side is out to kill you. And that's why I'm so worried about us right now. You know, that's always been my beef with Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz is a genius, okay? Alan Dershowitz tells me that he is the most talented mind he's taught. Okay. Dershowitz wouldn't vote for him, but he says he's a smart guy. So why is he always saying such obvious clickbait gotcha stuff? Cause that's the game. And even a genius plays it. If they want to win, that's why I'm so down on the game. Like I get it. And listen, I understand what you're saying, but I can tell you from my perspective, like you've been able to thrive in your world. You and I can get along like we do even off the air

having differences of opinions on big things because we are confident enough in our opinion that we don't have to, I don't need you to agree with me to be validated. But at the same time, we also leave enough room for someone else to say they make a great point. But if you attacked me, if you brought me on your show the first time and you came after me, then I would be ready for a fight every time we talked. It was your attitude toward me that made me feel comfortable enough where we both could agree to disagree. I don't know how we get there in politics, but you're right. The base of both parties, two things. They hate the other side and they won't let anybody on their side work with the other side.

So if you're an elected official, you can't say I'll work with the Democrats. If you do, your base is going to crush you. Look what happened to Kyrsten Sinema here in Arizona. She worked across the aisle. She had to leave her party and become an independent. That's another thing I don't like. If you want to be an independent, awesome. I want all of them to be independent. But don't you run as a Republican, use all their resources, and then all of a sudden say you're independent. You're not independent. You got in there on the team and now you're just going bad on your team. You should have let them put somebody else in that position who is going to stay true to the team as long as you have it. But you and I have a huge advantage in talking to each other

that politicians don't have. I don't lose because you're right and I'm wrong. I can totally be open to being wrong. Be like, yeah, you know, Broomhead's right about that. You know, that's the way we should be looking at it. I don't lose because of that. I mean, I would if I were more of a pundit, you know, and I wanted a following, you know, like if I were going to be on MSNBC or something like that, that would not be a good look, you know, for me that like, hey, you just had that broomhead guy on from Arizona and you told him he's right about illegal immigration. Yeah, he was right. Oh yeah, but you know, they see, he sees them as all brown people. No, he doesn't. You know, I can't have that fight and keep the following. So we don't have that burden. I agree.

And I think that's why why platforms like yours right now are becoming more popular, because more people want the conversation. They don't want the validation. I'll be honest. You know where I stand politically on most issues. I don't look for validation. I look for conversation. I want to seek out people that sometimes agree with me, but it's nuanced. But when they disagree with me, it's more of a civil, we both want the same thing. We come to the table. We both want the same thing. Now let's talk about how we get there. But I don't know that you can do that with the political parties the way they are, but I don't see how we can do things the right way without the parties,

at least right now. Well, look, you got to be right. I mean, there's no question that we can't do it except the way it is right now because nobody will let us, right? They won't even do term limits. You know, people talk about term limits. DeSantis puts it out there like this was some revolutionary constitutional amendment. They do it with a law. They won't do it because they like the game the way it is. But look, I have Bill O'Reilly on the show, okay? And it's such an interesting- I love Bill.

It's such an interesting experiment. I do not love Bill O'Reilly. Do you know why? I know. He doesn't check the main box. He doesn't love me. That's why, Mike. So he will never have my heart.

I have a friend that's a big fan of yours, a huge fan of yours, and asked me just the other day when I told him I was coming on here, he said, have you seen O'Reilly and Cuomo go at it? And I said, I have not. And he said, you got to see it. It's much watched. So apparently he rides you pretty hard. He rides me the whole time from hello. He starts slapping me around. And it really doesn't even qualify as going at it the way, you know, we would understand certainly from cable TV. Because one, I'm not looking for a fight, okay? I don't have a team.

Like, nobody likes me. The media doesn't like me. The Democrats don't like me. The Republicans don't like me. So I don't have a team anyway. He certainly does. He's the only guy I know who's got a following that he openly rejects. You know, he's like, now, I don't believe in the parties.

I'm like, everything you say is Republican conservative. You attack Biden every time you come on here. And he'll be like, yeah, but I call both sides. Nah, nah. But look, that's fine. That's his shtick. I'm a big fan of Bill's because I have so much respect

for the determination that he puts into his work on his positions. And he's been very good to me. He's been just coming on the show, but he's been good to me. He gives me a lot of good advice. He does not like me. He puts me in his car when we,

he lives out by me and he basically uses me as a chauffeur. He gets out of the car, he runs errands, he gets back in, he has coffee in his hand, he doesn't get me coffee. We go to breakfast, Bill comes, he's like, you know you're paying, right? You know how bad it is for me to just be in here with you? So he's really, he really is taking it to another level with me, but he's really he really is taking it to another level with me but he's already won over my ep but here's my point um people are loving it not because certainly not because he's whooping my ass he just tries very hard um and not because i'm exposing him as a you know as a cuckoo righty or some whatever bullshit you want to put on it but because it's a conversation and we get a little hot but he yells when he says hello you're like you're saying why i'm not ready to be an independent oh broomhead you see you see broomhead what if one of those weights hit you in

the head you know that's just the way he is and i'm okay with that i don't have to hit him back because he's coming at me like that. But people do dig the conversation. They do dig it. Even his fans will say to me, thanks for having him on. Yeah, it's one of those situations where I approached my show when I got into radio because I'd never done this before. And it kind of fell into my lap in the most horrible of circumstances. My brother got killed. And I ended up in this career by accident. And the only way it felt good to me was, you know, when you go out with some friends and you're hanging out and you're talking and the people next to you hear you talking and they start to kind of inject themselves in the conversation.

By the time you're done, you've got a dozen guys standing around laughing and having a conversation. You don't remember each other's names. When you leave, you think, man, that was a lot of fun. I want to go back there. I think that's what you create. I think you create a situation where I can't wait to hear your point. And sometimes I like to agree. And other times I'm really happy I get to disagree. But either way, I'm going to leave here thinking, man, I love talking to that guy. I think that's

the best way to do it. I couldn't agree with you more, but it's hard because so much of this, you know, the Greeks gave us the word demagogue. They gave us no positive opposite. And there's a reason. Anger works. You know, we have all these great leaders who say, you got to love, you got to love. They also all get killed, by the way. You know what I mean? So it is a much harder sell. And in politics, you know, you and I are going to run for any position against each other. I'll tell you what my strategy is going to be, and you better get to it first. Otherwise you're going to lose. And it's that broomhead. Let me tell you something about him. That guy kicked the dog once and then he liked it, you know, and you'll be like, what

are you talking about? I got 10 rescue dogs. If I can take you down, I'm going to win. And that's the problem with zero sum is that nobody has to win, especially when you're out of power. So, you know, nominally right now, even though the, obviously they have the house and the Senate's a little bit of a wash, the presidency makes the Republican party, the out of power party. And it's all just about saying the Democrats suck. That's enough. Opposition is a legitimate position. Like even the January 6th absurdity, was it an insurrection? No, I don't think so.

Not by any definition. And that's why the prosecutors don't call it, but it was bad as hell and embarrassing for us. So Mitch McConnell says it all of a sudden, everybody's saying Mitch McConnell's old and there are all these memes of him as a turtle falling down the steps. This guy has done more for your party than anyone since Lincoln. This guy has given you a generation

of conservative judges. He did it single-handedly with the Federalist group. He did why you're part of a party in the first place. Can I give you an example that hits home even more? Please. John McCain. John McCain treated me like a family member behind the scenes. I had zero experience in media. And you know how important that is sometimes to elected officials. I didn't get my first full-time gig in radio until 09. He ran for president in 08. I emceed his final event before election night when he got crushed by Barack Obama. He always treated me like a colleague. After he was diagnosed with a brain injury or his brain cancer, he came on my show as his first interview back from the diagnosis and treatment and said, you've always been fair to me. And I wanted us, I wanted to start my journey back in your studio. And he is a war hero. He spent all

that time, as you know, in the military, there are three groups of people that are well respected above others, Medal of Honor recipients, Code Talkers, and POW MIAs. He served honorably. He was injured so severely. And yet, in my own party that is supposed to be the party of patriots and military veterans, there is a seething hatred at times for John McCain. And I, for the life of me, can't figure that out. But I will tell you, I could never in good conscience even shy away from my love for John McCain because I felt like I was being such a hypocrite. And I'll take the arrows forever, but I'll never understand. I understand political disagreement, but not the political demonization. I hate it.

I know. I mean, look, I think it's the infection of the party system. I mean, what they used to call sectarianism, then factionalism, now parties. And this was supposed to be the reform. You know, it's not even a creature of law that the parties control the primaries. It's just political culture. And, you know, John McCain understood that that he is another guy used to slap me around uh on a regular basis and i thought me too i thought he was going to win and he would have won except for the economic downturn after john said i'm not an economy guy

i'm here to keep us safe if you need someone to keep you safe, I'm the guy because we were so worried about terror. Then the banking thing happened. And, you know, it wound up he wound up getting hoisted on his own petard because of that. Don't you think that Barack Obama did an amazing job in his campaign of tying the Bush economy around the neck of John McCain and saying it's just going to be more years? Oh, yeah, because that's the game. He did it brilliantly. I remember interviewing Obama and saying, hey, what happened to the whole disagree with decency thing?

And he's like, yeah, no, of course. That's what I want to. I said, yeah, then how come this ad, you got John McCain in there making him look like an old man and he's too old this, he's too old that. And he was trying to interrupt me, but I kept going. I was was like would you want to be alone in a room with john mccain i said the only thing you're gonna have helping you is reach because he can't move his arms all the way up if that man gets near you he will tear you up i was like you know and you're calling him old and he

doesn't have it anymore he was oh no no i didn't do that. And I was obviously messing with him about it. But I always thought McCain was about, I mean, pretty much checked every box of who you want in a leader. Not a perfect man. He would have smacked you if you called him that. But the party going after him, which is a very small slice, by the way. The people who go after John McCain don't know why they're going after John McCain. But in Arizona, it's leadership. It's party leadership. That's the difference. You and I both know, man, when it's slappy 687 on Twitter, what do we care what they're doing and saying? But when you're talking about the party leadership, whether it's the chairperson of the party or all the way down, it's the district leadership. When at the time when John McCain is winning elections for his reelection in primaries and

generals by double digits, but his own party in the state of Arizona is censoring him, it's a leadership issue. It's not just a small slice. They're the ones that are in leadership right now. You know what? You're right. And, you know arizona is a good test case not just because of what happened in the last election but just about our political culture in general but then again you guys were high on our pile there for a minute um yeah he was thinking of running for governor that guy uh and you know i don't know if he just got old or whatever but he said some crazy things that cat and i was covering him 25 years ago in his jails with the, you know, with the green bologna and all that other stuff he was doing.

Yeah, green bologna and pink underwear. Yeah. You know, another thing Arpaio did. Can I tell you just two stories about what Arpaio did? Please. I know Arpaio pretty well. Please. Two quick stories.

One, I thought it was a joke. On April Fool's Day, it got released, and I thought it was an April Fool's joke. He had Tent City where the inmates lived in tents outside, and it was for the overflow of the jail. So he said, hey, if it's good enough for our troops in the Middle East, it's good enough for us. So we had inmates. Well, they had connected a generator up to a stationary bicycle. So if anybody wanted to watch TV, somebody had to pedal to create the electricity. And I thought it was an April Fool's joke. It wasn't. And he would pipe in instead of playing music on TV, he put in Newt Gingrich videos for all the inmates that had to watch in the jail. You know, look, unless it was a human rights issue or somebody was going to die or heat exhaustion or something like that, I didn't have any problem with the harshness.

It all depends on what the people did to have him in there. But he did become part of that brown menace crusade of looking at migrants a different way. That is certainly part of what we're dealing with. migrants a different way that is certainly part of what we're dealing with. But look, at the end of the day, I just wish that we had more people who were trying to transcend it and make us better. That's my disappointment about DeSantis, is I really thought that he was going to be a guy who was going to say, look, I check every box Donald Trump does by position, but I'm not him. I don't believe in being how he is. I thought that was going to be his key to sweeping through. Do you think he will? Well,

he's not going that way right now. He's making it hard for himself to do that. Well, we'll see. I'm actually, I am anxious because, you know, I, again, it's been a long time since I've lived in Florida, but my friends and family are still there. I go back often. It's been a long time since I've lived in Florida. My friends and family are still there. I go back often. And I do think there is an avenue, especially if Trump comes after him as hard as he's starting to come after him. I think there's going to be an avenue where he is going to do that, where he sets himself

apart and says, I'm not that. I think that's going to be crucial for him. Is he your guy? I don't know. I don't have a guy yet because I don't know who else is going to get in. We still don't know who's going to end up in there. I did an event recently, a couple of events with a former governor of Arkansas, Asa Hutchinson. He's talking about running and I don't know a whole lot about him, but he's done a lot of great work. He's got a great resume. So I don't have a guy, but I'm certainly not going to discount DeSantis. I like a lot of things he says. What about Pompeo? I don't know enough about Pompeo as a whole, just a little bit that I saw of him and I've

seen him do publicly. But what is his stance on some of the issues that I might hold dear that's different than might be like, I know where DeSantis stands on public safety because I see what he's done for law enforcement there. I don't know what those positions are. You're seeing it the right way as always, Broomhead. Mike Broomhead, I'm so happy for your success, your friendship, and it's great to have a conversation with you. You know, it's great talking to you.

Now, I've got to get you on my show. We keep talking about it, but you got to come talk to my audience. Text me and it's done. I will, brother. All right. Now it's on your broom head. It's good to see you, brother. Take care. I'll talk to you soon. Reasonable guy. I also am kind of deferential towards him because he's very big and strong. You know, you always got to worry, you know, You never know what he's going to do to you.

So look, I look forward to more conversations like this. They're not easy to find. And that's why my broom head is a precious commodity. So thank you for watching, listening, subscribing, following, wearing your independence. And don't forget News Nation, 8 and 11 p.m. weeknights. You can find it right on the top of all my social media. Please check it out.

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