The Chris Cuomo Project - Rosie O'Donnell

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

Chris Cuomo sits down with comedian Rosie O’Donnell (podcast host, “Onward with Rosie O’Donnell”) for a wide-ranging and fierce discussion of American politics. Rosie shares her intense feelings about Donald Trump’s presidency, criticizes the news media’s coverage of Joe Biden, and explains why she had to stop watching the news under the Trump administration due to negative effects on her mental health. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You are about to hear a very heated debate by two people who have very different notions of why we are where we are when it comes to Trump and the Democrats and Republicans and the state of play in our politics. Chris Cuomo here. Thank you very much for subscribing and following here at the Chris Cuomo Project. This is a biggie today. It's a biggie. Why? You are not used to this. This is going to be points in opposition, some agreement, disagreement, but how we talk about it makes all the difference. Rosie O'Donnell is a big deal, and she's got big opinions, and she ain't happy with me and the media about a number of things. And some of it, she may be right. Some of it, she may be wrong. That's for you to judge.

And that's what we're going to do right now. Our history with Trump, where we are right now, what does it mean? What's the best thing for the country politically, legally? It's big questions from a really big figure in our culture, Rosie O'Donnell. Let's get after it. Rosie, as I live and breathe, thank you so much for doing this. My pleasure, Chris. Good to see you. You're looking healthy and tan and fit. I feel good. You know, us Italians, you know, we brown up in the summertime. I've been in the garden.

I fish a lot. I've been out. You know, I went through a real rebuilding phase when I got Shikan from CNN. I decided to use it as kind of like a personal point of reappraisal about like how I wanted to be and what I wanted to do. You know, I was doing all this reading and my therapist was like, you got to find something in it. You can't just be bitter the whole time.

Correct. And angry. So true. But you know, how was it emotionally? Like professionally, I get it. But personally, did it like take you out at the knees? Like you felt identity-less? Professionally, I was okay.

Emotionally, I was devastated because it hit me in a way that was specifically destabilizing, is without really consciously ever thinking this way, I had assumed I had almost a psychic ability to understand what was going to happen in the news and media cycles. When it came to politics and media that I would know, all right, this is the way this story is going to go. This is, you know, where we're going to take it. This is how it's going to be.

And I knew the moment, and I've never said anything but this. So it's This is, you know, where we're going to take it. This is how it's going to be. And I knew the moment, and I've never said anything but this, so it's not like, you know, revisionist. When I started having Andrew on during the pandemic, I knew it was going to be a problem with the media because it's an obvious conflict. But even in the glory days for my brother, I knew I was going to get trouble.

I just knew the media was being quiet because they knew they would get shouted down if they said anything about it because it was so popular. And the decision I made was I've never had people thank me so much for anything I've done in over 25 years in this business, the way they did for those conversations. So I was like, you know what? They're going to give me shit. They're going to say this was a conflict having him on TV, but my boss is fine with it. Obviously, I wouldn't be doing it, right? If the boss didn't want me to do it, they run the show. And so I did it. I just never thought that Andrew would wind up in that kind of controversy, which would give the media that kind of leverage to come back after me and basically make the case

that this guy helped a bad guy do bad things, so he's got to go. I didn't see it coming. So emotionally, it was really destabilizing, one, because I didn't see it. I didn't think the people who wound up going bad on me would and make stuff up. And I didn't think the media would buy it.

You know, we're professional skeptics. That's the big heartbreak. Well, we buy it because we want to buy it. You know, look, like this, you'll disagree with this, but to me, it's the same dynamic. The level of skepticism and interest in the allegations surrounding the Biden family is not the same if you changed the name Biden and Trump. The media would be all over it 24-7. Why? Because they don't like Trump in general. Now, does he deserve it? Yes. But you're supposed to go after it wherever it is. And if the Biden allegations didn't involve the Bidens, but Eric Trump and his dad, you would know a hell of a lot more about it. Now, I don't play the game.

Wait, I have a question. Go ahead. How come we don't know more about the $2 billion from the Saudi government that Jared and Ivanka got? How come people are looking the other way towards what obviously was a payoff for their connection and their contact with Donald Trump and with the Khashoggi murder? Here's my answer. One, you do know because you just stated it as a fact. It's not common on people's minds. It's not as prevalent as you think it should be or I think it should be. No, this is the thing. It is as prevalent as I think it should be because I think the idea of people with proximity

to power using it to cash in is like commonplace Republican and Democrat. And if you don't like it, you should change that system. But what I'm saying is we know about it. We know that it involved Mohammed bin Salman, MBS, overriding his own investment advisors who didn't want to do the deal. And he did it anyway because of his relationship and feelings for Jared, which how could that not have influenced U.S. policy when he was involved in the White House? So why isn't it a huge to-do?

Oversaturation. How many different things are you going to attack Trump for at once? You got like four different indictments. You got all these things. A $2 billion payoff and they're saying that Hunter Biden is the criminal? I'm not saying it's okay.

I'm just saying he flooded the zone, Rosie. Just what happened with Ivanka getting the intellectual property rights from China when she was in the service of the U.S. government. Correct. But here's what I'm saying. The media knew those things, attacked those things. They just had too many different things to deal with with Trump, literally. It was like just oversupply of drama. But on the Biden side, you don't know the things that I do and I report on because we don't have the groupthink on it that we do on the Trump side. And it's it's the the American people see it and they don't like it.

These are real questions. You should not have multiple members of your family getting money from foreign governments. Wow. Wow. You should make statement. But you disagree. You should make statement. But you disagree.

Well, you you I think the fact that they attack Hunter Biden, whose mother and sibling was killed in a car accident when he was a mere child. Talk about a trauma tattoo that this guy is living with trying to get his act together. He's an addict, as so many of us have in our families. And we know exactly how horrible that is. And there's a father who still loves him, who still tells him he loves him, no matter what state he's in, and tries to help him. That is the definition of grace, resilience, and courage. And to have the right wing demonize that relationship and somehow hold up the incestuous, overtoned Ivanka, Ivana and Donald, the horrific way and nature of that relationship and what has become of their lives,

Jared and Ivanka, since he took office. Talk about ripping off the country and using your connections to personally have gains against the interest that's traitor behavior. I get your analysis. I'm just saying two things can be true at once. All the stuff you just said about the Trumps, okay. On the Biden side,

it is wrong to demonize the guy as an addict and use that as a proxy that, so anything that you want to accuse him of is okay, because look at him with the crack pipe. That does a disservice to addiction and mental health, and we all know better than that. People are more than just their addiction, okay? And that bothers me, and I won't use those pictures that way, and I don't like when others do, and I call them out for it. And yes, there's tremendous pain in that family, which is why I think Biden, as men go, is one of the most sympathetic and empathetic people to others in pain.

And I experienced it firsthand when my father died. However, and it's a big however in all caps, okay? That does not, it may explain, but in no way excuses. If the guy was making money, Okay, that does not, it may explain, but in no way excuses if the guy was making money off of his proximity to power and his name and it was getting moved to different people in the family. Now I say if, because those are the questions. There is no curiosity in those questions.

I had on a big Democrat the other night. Well, we haven't seen any other proof of this. Hey, look, I covered all the impeachments and all the Trump stuff. You weren't dumping proof on my head. You were dumping suggestions and concerns and questions. And that's okay. That's okay as oversight.

You're not doing that here. Chris, you guys dropped the ball on Trump so much for this country that you guys, the mass media is to blame to equate him and Hillary Clinton and act as though they were the same to equate Hunter Biden and the billion dollar criminal crime family Trump's is is ridiculous. And you guys never, never did a Google search to say he was bankrupt six times. So when I said it on The View, he went batshit

to tell the truth about Trump. You guys didn't do it. You're nuts. Not only, first of all, you can't lump us all in. You dropped the ball. You're crazy. Listen, listen, hold on a second. Before we ever heard that he may even think about running for president, I at ABC News did an entire investigation into his net worth. You can Google it, okay? It was a whole primetime episode. So did Forbes. He's never made the Forbes list legitimately.

Listen, that's fine. I had the guy on. In fact, now he's a big shot for Bloomberg and MSNBC, the guy who was a reporter at the Times who wound up getting sued by Trump and got all this information about his taxes. I had him on. I had him in the piece.

I've used him as a reporter. You can't lump me in, but that's not even the point. You say equate. That's not our job. Our job is to shine the light and let you decide what it means. But you didn't shine the light on all of the sex crimes that he was accused of. You didn't shine the light on his connection to Epstein. Who's had more coverage of their sex crimes than Trump has? The American public was not told the truth about this man.

And I blame Mark Burnett and I blame mainstream media because they both lied to the American public. And that is now a cult and has ruined the nation as far as I'm concerned in terms of divisiveness.

I think that you are missing what Trump was about. Now, a little bit of it, you should be missing it because his behavior toward and about you was disgusting. I said it at the time. But that's only the tip of the iceberg. I know, but I'm saying that would inform, look, it informs how I feel about him. I've spoken to the former president on the phone numerous times. And my beef with him is very simple. People say you hate Trump. I don't do hate. Okay. And I'm not saying that in some kind of, you know, PC, it's just not who I am as a

person. And anybody who knows me will know I'll get in fistfights. I'll do bad shit. I'll get angry. Listen, I hate everything about him and everything he stands for. And I will live my life in opposition to what he has done to this country. I understand that. What I said to him was, you are putting my family in a position of jeopardy. Not your fights with Andrew. He's a big boy.

Knock yourself out. Whatever happens, there happens. I don't cover it anyway. But you are weaponizing me and making it seem like I am against you. And it is redounding to my wife and my kids. And that's on you. I don't cover your kids that way,

even though they're adults, okay? I don't cover your marriage. Why? Because I think that is a bullshit basis of a political analysis. And we use it because it's a proxy for insight about these men and women. We go after their sex lives.

Like any of us are living some better standard. What I say is- Then him, I certainly hope so, Chris. Well, but I mean, look, okay, that's a low bar. But what I'm saying is, I said that to him. I said, stop making it personal. Because, you know, if I got to hear it from my kids one more time, that your father hates Trump, I live in a Trumpy place.

And he made that choice. He made that choice to personalize me. And that pissed me off. I'm very open about it. However, there has never been a person in power that got more negative scrutiny than Donald Trump has, deservedly so, in my opinion. But you cannot put this on the mainstream media.

There has never been a man in the office who had no qualifications beforehand. You are forgetting why he got elected, Rosie. Because you watch The Apprentice, America, and you believe the lie that Mark Burnett told you. Trump associates did not have a boardroom. It was him and two old people. Remember the beginning of The Apprentice, old Carol and the old other guy? And that was Trump International. It was a crime family that was tiny for him and his family. And Mark Burnett made him into the billionaire. And guess what?

He's not. Trump got elected in part because of that shiny image. OK. And his celebrity. Okay. But there was another big piece that your side of the game has not gotten its hands around yet, which is legitimate grievance and not just from bigots and the ignorant and the ugly minded. Do you ever listen to the people at his rallies? Listen, that's what his rallies. I'm telling you, there are people all over this country that voted for Trump, that you or I, well, you see it differently, that I live with, that I care about, that I fish with, that I fight with, that I know, and they voted for him. Why? Because they would do business with him?

Never. Because they'd want him in their fishing club? Never. Because they'd want him dating their sister? Never. Because they'd want him in their fishing club? Never. Because they'd want him dating their sister? Never. But he was an outsider who had the ammunition and the willingness to attack a system they feel is set up against them. And he was doing it for them. They didn't have to like him because they don't like any of them. He lied to them. He fed them propaganda. And the Fox News was his own channel. They say all politicians lie.

Joe Biden's a liar. Hillary Clinton's a liar. Not to the extent of him. They've counted his lies. I know. In one speech, the man is mentally ill. He is not a sane man. Ask any of the scientists, of the psychologists who came together when they're not allowed to

diagnose anyone who is not in their personal yeah they shouldn't uh right but they did because they have a duty to warn i know and it wound up hurting psychology but guess what a duty to warn the people i get it but they were getting political in their analysis they never even spoke to the guy directly they're going to give us an analysis oh Oh, my God. You don't have to. Look at his actions. Look at what he's done. Look at what he said. There were good people on both sides.

The other side were Nazis. I know. Listen, I get it. That's the president of the United States. I get it. So you got to ask yourself, Rosie, if it's so obvious and so absurd, then how did the guy win and how is he in dead heat? It's not just because people- He lost by a lot of votes this last time. I know he did. I know it. I'm not saying the

election was great, Rosie. And he's going to lose again. I don't even know that he's going to get the nomination. I don't know. We got to see. There's too much wood to chop. What I'm saying is this- 91 felonies. No question. 91. And I think a lot of what he's accused of, he did, and it was wrong. Of course he did. We saw it on the news, but you guys didn't seem to care too much. Hold on a second. You just said you saw it on the news, Rosie.

So you can't say that we don't care because I was the one telling you. You know what I saw? I'll tell you what I saw on the news. Yes. I saw on the news him making comments like he did there saying there were good people on both sides and the newscasters not going, God damn him. Those are Nazis. Well, this is America. First of all, you didn't say that. Nobody said that. Hold on, Rosie. First of all, I'm offended because that means you didn't watch my show.

Second, I didn't. I'm sorry. I'm an MSNBC girl. I've never watched it. That explains a lot of it. I love your family. I love your whole family. I think you're a great guy. I didn't. I'm sorry. I'm an MSNBC girl. I've never watched it. Well, that explains a lot of it. Let me tell you. I love your family. I love your whole family. I think you're a great guy. I didn't know a lot of this stuff. I'm going to Google you and find out all the details after. But I know you for so many years, Chris. Look, no shame in my game. I've been using AG1 for over five years. Why? It works, it's easier, and it's less expensive. That's why. Since 2010, they've been getting their formulations right and tweaking their formulas. Why? Because the science changes, okay? It's not like politics where people decide to believe one thing and no matter what happens with the facts, they never shift. This is the opposite. Oh, prebiotics work with probiotics, but in this way. D works with K and this type of B works with

that. They have the scientists doing it. So I don't need all the bottles. I don't have to spend all the money and I don't have to figure out when to take what and why. More importantly, it's not just the regular list of vitamins. It's the extras, okay? The adaptogens, the prebiotics, the probiotics that support your body's universal needs. Gut optimization, immune support, stress management. That's what foundational nutrition is about. And these are the people at AG1 who've been doing the work to get it right. Okay. I tell friends, I tell family, I get no complaints. Okay. If you want to take ownership of your health,

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Why? Because I like their sheets. That's why. A lot of people don't get a good night's sleep for a lot of reasons. One of the ones that you can control is bedding. One out of three of us report being sleep deprived. Okay, well, what is it? Well, it stresses all kinds of things, but the wrong sheets can make you hot, can make you cold. I'm telling you, I don't even believe it either, but Cozy Earth sheets breathe, And here's what I love about them. Cozy Earth's best-selling sheet is a bamboo set, okay?

Temperature regulating. Gets softer with every wash. I'm not kidding you, all right? Now, so if you go to CozyEarth.com and you enter the code, enter the code CHRIS, and you can get up to 35% off your first order. CozyEarth.com, and the code is CHRIS. What I'm saying is, listen, Trump supporters, unfairly in my opinion, hate me, okay? Why? Hate me. Because they say that I was the muscle of CNN to destroy Trump for the lefty agenda in the mainstream media. And I can't tell you how many guys I got to sit

down with and they say, you're a New York lefty. I say, I'm a New York lefty. What does that even mean? It's me. I'm a New York lefty. My father was an Italian Catholic guy who was a genius and a political pragmatist in terms of what mattered. He had his opinions. My brother is, I don't even know what that means. That's, you know, you're liberal. What does that even mean? It's about what actions they put in place and who they work with and who they don't. And, you know, I was like, it doesn't make any sense. You don't know me, but that's all okay. I signed up for all that. But you can't blame the media

for the judgments of the American people who acted on their grievance and their disaffection. What you should be is yelling at your party and saying, I can't believe we can't do better than this guy. Well, listen, nobody, I'm not really in the party. I don't go to things. I, you know, I registered as an independent

a few years ago when I was so mad at the Democratic Party. You think Biden is the best they can offer you? No, I do not. But I thank him eternally for his lifetime of civil service and his lifetime of commitment to- Yeah, great. Let's give him a watch. He doesn't have to be my president.

And guess what? There should be an age limit. Dianne Feinstein, Mitch McConnell had another mini stroke. I know. I feel horrible for his family. Listen, there needs to be term limits and age limits. You'll never get it. And that's that you have to get it. You can't get it. The world has changed. Just like we're talking about in the SAG strike. We're looking at them and saying, listen, motion picture producers, you changed the whole equation and you cut us out of it and you want us to be okay. Right. And we're not going to be able to live or perform for you. And you can't do that.

You can't cut somebody out of the equation. I agree, but that's a negotiation and that could be subject to some legislation. But I believe in term limits very much. I've done set pieces about it. I've talked about it on my show for years. You need a constitutional amendment. We couldn't get a constitutional amendment today on the name of this country. And I'm not being facetious. I'm telling you, people who you love, your friends at MSNBC would say, I don't know that this should be called America. Amerigo Vespucci. Turns out he was as bad as every other man of his time. No, no. Listen, I understand your point. I understand your point. And, you know, to be

a diehard liberal, to care for people first and profit second, to care for the lives of the quantity and quality of people's lives and justice and equality to live, do unto others, that's a liberal. You got to add some more things though now that are also liberal. What else? What would you add? Here's another thing that's liberal now, okay? And my father was not like this. That man went on a speaking tour with Newt Gingrich. This is a man who sat with the Republican opposition, the head of the legislature in New York. I watched them eat dinner together, even though they were clearly on the wrong side of each other in their negotiation. These days, you disagree with you guys, you get deplatformed, which is a nice way of saying censored. You get attacked and shouted at. How could you say that? How could you give this person airtime? How could you let these

ideas get out there? That's not liberal, but it has become that way. You guys are punitive in your politics now, and it's a mistake. You're not winning with better ideas anymore. You're saying people who believe differently than you, instead of persuading them, you want to kick them out and tell them they're stupid, and you worship a Rachel Maddow who's a genius. You have to understand, and you worship a Rachel Maddow who's a genius. You have to understand, these are not people who think different than us. These are people who are in a cult,

much like Scientology. You cannot say that. They are in a cult. It is definable by experts. It is not a cult. It's not a cult. Yes, it is. They don't. They see what Trump is and what isn't.

You're leaving out this other piece. Maddow does the same thing. And I'm a fan. I love people who are good at their craft. And she's smart and thoughtful. And I respect that very much. And I'm not saying, I don't have to say it. It would serve me better to not say it,

to say bad things about her or anybody else, because that's what gets you wattage these days. But, but, but, but, but, you are leaving out the real feelings of people who used to be Democratic voters, who are worried about things now and want better and want someone to look out for them. And that's what you guys used to offer. That's how my father got into power. Listen, we were on the precipice of fascism with him. You have to agree to that, Chris. No, I will not agree to it.

And here's why. Wow. Okay. Because I think we're stronger than that. I think our system is stronger than that. And you saw that even with his own guys on January 6th. You know, the election wound up being certified. And I got to tell you, prosecuting your political opponents, all right, is so fraught with trouble.

The founding fathers- 91 felonies. I'm with you, I'm with you. But look, look, the founding fathers did that crazy phrase that we don't know how to make sense of it until now. High crimes and misdemeanors. Why didn't they define them? Why didn't they say what they were?

Why didn't they give us more guidance? Here's what they were doing. They were looking at what they had just escaped from in Britain, right? Where they were doing exactly what we're doing now. And they were like, we don't want that shit. And they came up with that language that was an image of something in British common law, high crimes and misdemeanors. Meaning you better go after somebody for something that matters if that person has power, because otherwise it's going to look like you just want their power. Right, but we don't. We want the truth. 91 felonies, Chris. Listen, if you want the truth, here's how you get the truth. Either you have lots of debates without a moderator in an election, and you let the people decide.

Or you cannot do it with congressional oversight. They're all partisans, and they only run what's in their advantage. They don't play it fair. Those days are over. The binary game of party politics has dominated, which is why Washington and Madison and Monroe and Roosevelt said,

get away from the parties. You're making a huge mistake. You're going to be like the British. And here we are. You get the 9-11 commission model. It's all that works. Listen, our government was almost taken over by a madman who was elected on a lie and then proceeded to lie to the American people for his entire term in office.

And thank God that Joe Biden came in and saved America from literally authoritative fascism in the United States. First of all, America saved itself in an election. Okay. In an election that was the most scrutinized we've ever had. So if anybody wants to say there are problems with our system, they're right. Okay. But as elections go, we've never scrutinized one as much as we did this one. So that's why the rigged people. Right. But we never had a president like like a thug, like a thug from a crime family. Call up a governor and say, find me the votes and then gave the number. We watched him commit crimes during his entire time in office. And now he's having to pay for it. I don't think he's going to have to pay for it.

I think he will. No way. Why? I believe in the United States of America. I believe in justice. I believe in our founding fathers and he will have to pay for his crimes. First of all, I'm saying because of how justice works and the administration of justice, he's will have to pay for his crimes. First of all, I'm saying because of how justice works and the administration of justice, he's not going to wind up paying the way that you're suggesting, and here's why. Well, I don't think he's going to be in Rikers sweating in a jail cell with four cellmates,

but he's going to have his life and rights curtailed and the benefits of being a former president curtailed, and I hope some of the absurd decisions that he made will be overturned. I see two paths. Actually, I see like five, but let's just deal with two. One is he gets the nomination.

He wins. This all goes away. Or what goes away? All the cases are going to go away one way or another. You can't prosecute him while he's in office. If he wins, this all goes away. You weren't talking about the United States of America. No. We're talking about these 91 felonies. I think we're much stronger than-

You think we could survive another four years of Donald Trump? Yeah, I do. I think it would be, I may not survive it, but I think the country, I think the country could survive it. He may find a way to have me in prison. But I think the country would survive it. Like he did to Michael Cohen. The, well, listen, Michael Cohen's another example, okay? Not a big fan. The guy acted in bad faith as far as I'm concerned. However, however, very few people go to prison for the kinds of things that were coming at Michael Cohen. If he weren't Trump's guy, he probably would have never done time. But that talks about the administration of justice. What I'm saying is the second path is this.

Either Trump drops out, Trump cuts deals, or Trump loses, and then a Republican wins or a Democrat wins. In either way, I think even if it's Biden, he is going to find a way to quiet it down because it will be in the best interest of the country for Trump to go away, in Biden's estimation. So I'm saying I don't see him getting prosecuted and taking verdicts and getting sentenced even if Biden wins. I don't see it happening. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Well, I'm hoping I'm hoping that there's going to be like a big surprise and, you know, January that Biden and everybody's going to get together and they're

going to go. We have to all tap someone else. We're going to tap someone else and we're going to get behind it like what they're doing in the SAG and AFTRA talks. There were two factions in the SAG and AFTRA and Fran Drescher united them all. They are now the union unity ticket and we're working together. And I think that the next president needs to do that for the country. And I don't think that it could be Biden and I don't think that it would ever be Trump. It used to be how it always was. I'm telling you, Rosie, I'm very sure of very few things. And the older I get, the less sure I am.

How old are you, Chris? I'm 53. I just happened to be built like a brick shithouse. I'm 62 soon. So I got a decade on you. Well, then you look, you know this. You've lived it in so many different ways.

And your career is a testament to it. And I'm a big fan. I don't agree with a lot of what you're saying right now. but by the way, that's okay. That's one of the beautiful things though, is that, you know, I'm a phone call away for you. You need me to do something. I'm done. Why? You're good people. I like how you live your life. I like what you're about. I like what you do with your family. Oh, I don't agree with some of her politics. So what? You know, only recently has that become some kind of litmus test. Luckily for me in my life, I have a lot of Trumpy guys who I love and they're my guys and I get why they are.

It's not because they're bigots and they don't even like him personally. A couple of them are entertained by him, but it's contempt for the system. And I see in that opportunity, it's so much easier to be better than this guy than it is to be in this battle of the bottom. And it used to be that way. It's the parties that have infected us. You don't get to where we are with Trump or anybody else if people weren't forced into these binary choices.

Well, you know, that's true. I mean, that's really true. I mean, that's really true. And I think that you're right, that both sides have to sort of go to therapy at a resort. They need to have their power taken. Right. You need to get really right wing and a really left wing person together. Independence are the future of the survival and robust nature of our democracy. Independence. I think the Gen Z is going to save us. Look, because they are largely nonpartisan.

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Over 40 years of age, 52% of us experience some kind of ED between the ages of 40 and 70. I know it's taboo. It's embarrassing. But it shouldn't be. Thankfully, we now have HIMS, and it's changing the vibe by providing affordable access to ED treatment, and it's all online. HIMS is changing men's health care. Why? Because it's giving you access to affordable and discreet sexual health treatments, and you do it right from your couch.

and discreet sexual health treatments. And you do it right from your couch. HIMS provides access to clinically proven generic alternatives to Viagra or Cialis or whatever. And it's up to like 95% cheaper. And there are options as low as two bucks a dose. HIMS has hundreds of thousands of trusted subscribers. So if ED is getting you down, it's time to pick it up.

Start your free online visit today at HIMS.com slash CCP. H-I-M-S dot com slash CCP. And you will get personalized ED treatment options. HIMS.com slash CCP. Prescriptions? You need an online consultation with a health care provider, and they will determine if appropriate. Restrictions apply. You see the website. You'll get details and important safety information.

You're going to need a subscription. It's required. Plus, price is going to vary based on product and subscription plan. But, you know, you don't hear people at a Biden rally, even though there aren't any, but you don't hear people who are not in a cult say the things that the people say at his rallies, that he is the president now, that James Woods is really Joe Biden and he's just acting and Joe Biden's dead. Like these are the things they say with a straight face into the camera, Chris.

How can you even quantify it? You're dealing with a fringe aspect, a minority aspect. Now, Trump has more of those people than most constituencies. And he has nothing to do with their lives. He has lived a privileged criminal existence and he would spit on them if he saw them except and and look maybe even if that's true maybe even if it's true and they know it what does that tell you about how they regard the rest of the system that they will still accept him as an agent of their grievance. Go to the grievance.

Let these people know that you can do better for them and pick people who are coming from outside the system. Well, how about we start at a basic thing that everyone should agree on, raising minimum wage? They're never going to agree on that. I know, but that's the problem. They don't care about people. They only care about money.

No, but there are a lot of people in this country who will say, no, I don't want a fake structure of basically an entitlement that no matter what job you do, you get a certain amount of money because it's going to raise costs for people like me, who's an insurance executive, or I'm a plumber with a company, or one of these things, I'm going to have to pay these people. That is not as simple a notion as it's made out to be, regardless of how I feel about it personally. I could make the case of why the more you raise the standard of living, the more

you wind up actually creating a lot more commerce and energy, but it doesn't matter. It's a political issue. I think where you should start is this, that you have to get back to disagreement with decency and the media needs to attack people who attack people and not allow it. But the media is that. Well, look, the media is largely a reflection of the society that it comes from. No, because media used to be different when we were kids, Chris. You know, Walter Cronkite said something on the news that made a difference. You know, we believedronkite said something on the news that made a difference. You know, we believed in our newscasters. We believed in their autonomy and there was no entertainment in news.

And that all changed when news became filed under entertainment and it became a whole show and none of it became the journalism that we need in order to keep a democracy healthy. I'll tell you what. I think that it's about a matter of degree, okay? I knew Cronkite at the end of his life. He was nice to me.

His wife, Betty, they were nice to me. I'm impressed by his career. I've read all about it. I've read about the Mudd's and the Severide's and the Brinkley's and everybody who preceded me in that business. Let's not, you know, we have a tendency to lionize the past, you know, the people who died. No, the Halcyon days were very few. The media got competitive very quickly. Edward R. Murrow was very commercial towards the middle and end of his career.

Mike Wallace was hawking cigarettes. Walter Cronkite was interviewing a lion puppet named Charlemagne. The idea that these were some high priests who lived by a different standard, I think is assailable. I didn't say that. I simply said they had the public trust. Yes, they had the public trust. But why? Because corporations didn't own the news for entertainment and profit.

They did own the news. None of these were public entities. They weren't in the entertainment industry. They didn't fall. They were the same company. It was like, it was separate. News and entertainment. It was separate. News and entertainment. It's separate now, too. It's getting blurred by digital media, but I'm telling you, I've lived it.

Most of my life, I've been in this business. And I'll tell you, I get that that hurts me now, because people want fresh. They want new, as if somehow you'll be disruptive of the norms and somehow better. I think that's pretense, But it doesn't matter. Here's what I know. Here's what I know. That the media, you get the media that you want. When you had three channels and you didn't want to know about anything else except what they were telling you from DC, you trusted the media.

Then Vietnam happened and Walter cried and you got lied to by the US government. And the media was slow to tell you that. And then you had the Pentagon Papers and now you woke up and then you had Watergate and you had Nixon turning on the media and saying you can't trust him. And guess what? That's when it all was.

And that was in 1970. And we took him out and he was out of there. He was pardoned. I know, which every single one of those Republican nominee hopefuls said they would do the same thing. But I don't know that it is a bad thing if what you're interested in is progress for the country. Look, I'm not saying that Trump deserves a pass. It would be the end of democracy if this man is not held accountable. But that's what I believe. What is accountable?

He lost the election. He has committed 91 felonies and crimes against the United States. He's accused of 91 felonies and a lot of them are low level stuff that a lot of other people would probably not be prosecuted for. OK, I just want to, I just think you, you lived through it, you reported on it and you know, this is the most corrupt politician in United States history. Would you agree with that? I think that he's been accused of corruption and he has said the dumbest things of any politician I've ever covered in my life.

And that's because? That's because of who he is. He's dumb. But- That's why. Look, he's a great salesman. He's a great marketer. He understands people.

He's been bankrupt six times, maybe even more. And had to manipulate him. He never paid his contractors. He's a horrible person. I didn't say he was a great businessman. I didn't say he's a great businessman. I'm saying he's a good salesman. There's a difference.

You know, the con in con man stands for confidence. He's a good salesman. And he believes, you know, strong and wrong all day long. And he understands human nature. He understands demagoguery. He understands prejudice and outrage and anger. And he's tapped into people's real feelings that are authentic to their lives, even if they're not to his. And they want better.

And that's all I'm focused on, is that there's opportunity there for leadership in this country. There is, and it's neither of them, if you ask me. We have to be done with this time period of horrible dissent and horrible disenfranchisement and debasing and half the population debasing the other half, which I'm guilty of. And I know it, but I, you know, this is the way I feel. I am a proud American. I love this country. I would never move. I would never leave.

I never said I would. I'm staying here till the end and I will fight for what I believe is right. And everyone should do that. And you should, and there's no problem with any of that. There never has been. This is a country that is in a constant state of confrontation. That's what it's been in.

Nobody's ever tried to do what we're doing here. I've been all over this world. I've been to dozens and dozens of countries. Nobody's trying to do what we're doing here. What I'm saying is, you look at a Vivek Ramaswamy, okay? This guy made his fortune not in the most honorable of ways

when it comes to making it big in business or making your fortune, but his identity as an outsider with a sophistication of how the game works and a glibness is very appealing to people. Why? Because he's so great? No. Because they have such low expectations of the system and the culture surrounding it. That's the message people need to get. The media is looking at Ramaswamy.

I don't get it. I don't get it. Yeah, I know. I don't get it. I don't get it. Yeah, I know. You don't get it. You really think that the Trump base is going to vote for a brown guy with a religion that they don't understand? No. Well, then why is he getting numbers that are better than the other guys? He's an outsider who speaks to their grievance.

And the grievance is real. So why don't the Democrats wake up to that and play to the grievance? Well, you know, I wish I knew. I mean, I have to say that during the Trump administration and right after it, I had to turn off all the news because it was too bad for my mental health. I have to say I couldn't believe that it was occurring. You know, I knew through the time with him, even though I've only spoken to the man once, um, uh, the, I knew by the way he tornadoed through my existence in life, that he was going to tornado through anywhere he wanted in this country and everyone was in danger. And, uh, so it was very, very hard on me mentally to be here and to see him leading this great country. It was somewhere beyond depression, Chris. I know you talk about mental health a lot, and I like to as well. It was a

very sad time for people who suffered with major depressive disorder or even any kind of bipolar. It was a scary time. And I think we're still in scary times. I'll tell you what though, there was an aspect to your situation that I respect and you should as well. You never took a step backwards. Right.

Never. And you will always have that. I don't have that. I stood by my brother, but I absolutely got my ass kicked in this situation. And I never spoke out. I didn't take on the fight. Why?

I didn't, I had done so much damage to my family at that point that to up the stakes, because I know how the media works. Oh, you want to fight against what we're saying about you? Oh, good. Because we're all going to speak with one voice, and all we're going to do is tone down your part and amp up all these kinds of suggestions from anyone that we can find, and then one of us will echo the others. That can happen in the media. I still think we have the best media anywhere in the world that I've been, but I don't have that satisfaction that you should

very much be proud of. And I'm sure your family is. You went up against the most powerful man in the fucking world. But I grew up in New York, Chris, like you did. He's a joke in New York. He was not president when I was talking about him. He was disrespecting an 18-year-old beauty contest winner for kissing a girl in a bar in New York. And I spoke up about how horribly sexist and patriarchal he is and how he's not a good man. Yeah, you were right. Yeah. You know what I mean?

You're allowed to feel that way. And you fought for what you believed in. And you got to, look, I know you paid a price for it internally, externally. I know, I've been there. I get it. But, you know, to me, I have no problem bleeding for what I believe in and taking the beating. And maybe by some judges' scorecards, I lost. but I don't care. I swing. If you're going to swing at me, I'm going to swing. And that's a choice and it's easy to say, and it's hard to do. And you did it. And I watched it and I appreciate your passion, but I just will leave you with this one idea. And I hope we get to do this again, because I love this. I'm telling you there's

opportunity in what you just see as despair. And I don't mean that in some Stephen Covey's Seven Habits Highly Effective People way. I'm saying there are people who are desperate for better and they're not tinfoil hat kooks. There are those people in his coalition. There are bigots. There are prejudiced people. There are hateful people in his coalition. He's one of them. Maybe so.

But there are many more who are holding their nose where he is involved. And there's opportunity in that Republican or Democrat for better. Well, listen, I'll try to think that. I'll try to reframe it. I don't like that I have this kind of intense, intense lack of understanding of how anyone could support him. That's their desperation. Yeah. It feels to me like the end of the world. Where you're scooping them up or listening to their story and they're like, how could you ever reduce yourself to, now fill in the blank, being with that person, stealing all that stuff just to do these drugs.

Yes, sure, sure. Why? Desperation. He is a sign of desperation. Yes. And if I were you guys, I would speak to them and not about him. If you care about this issue, if this worries you about immigration, whatever, here's what I'm doing. If you're worried about a guy my size deciding to change his name to Christina tomorrow and competing against your kid in basketball and female basketball team, there's one of those,

okay? Here's the reality of what identity is about and who's at risk and who isn't. Speak to the concerns, even trivial ones that seem silly and not about him. Well, you know, that's why I enjoy Gavin Newsom. I feel as though he speaks to the people. I feel a confidence when he speaks. There's a Kennedy-esque vibe about him. You know, there is that one thing is that he was once married to the Trump wife, which I think

leads me to go, what the holy hell? You know, like I can't wrap my head around that. But aside from that, I am a big supporter of his and I hope that should they look for a young, experienced governor, that I hope that they would look to him. I think they're making a mistake not having a primary. I know that you don't primary an incumbent president very often. I know. I know. And I know the system's set up against you. It's the problem with the system of a two-party system.

But, you know, nothing changes if nothing changes. I have the faith that the Democrats are going to get together at Joe Biden's behest and say, we need to tap someone out. You know, when your grandfather is that age, you don't let him carve the turkey at Thanksgiving. So you have to say thank you. And Dianne Feinstein as well, all respect.

Mitch McConnell, no respect, but get out. You're too old to be doing the people's work. It shows you how, you know, again, desperate the system is that no one's saying anything about McConnell. I don't mean to disrespect his health, but obviously if you care about this guy at all, you should be telling him to think of himself first, take care of himself. Of course. But they're not doing that because they need the seat. Even though the governor would appoint somebody and they'd get that guy anyway. Boy George once said, fame is the impending glittering disaster.

And once you get it in your veins, it's hard to get it out. So, you know, Mitch McConnell is going to hang on till the very end. Same with Dianne Feinstein. I know that there's reasons and the Democrats say then they'll get to a point. Listen, she should be home with her family getting well. We would be much better off if people had to get in and get out. But Rosie O'Donnell, you are a plus.

I love the conversation. I love the melding of your head and your heart. I will always chat with you. In fact, I'm going to give you my home number whenever you get in a mood to chat, call me up. I'm going to call away if you need anything and we'll do this again. My pleasure, honey.

My pleasure. So, if you take nothing else from this, one, New Yorkers, and I think a lot of us, feel deeply about things that matter. O'Donnell and I do not agree on some of her grievances and feelings. And I'm not sure that she appreciates what I'm suggesting about the challenge, the need, the rationales behind people's support of even Donald Trump. And that's okay because we had a conversation. We were both left with ideas we didn't have before and an appreciation and understanding of ideas

we may agree with or disagree with. And that's what we need more of, don't you think? Thank you for subscribing, following, checking out, being a free agent and the gear. Be a critical thinker, be an independent. Don't just stop at, oh, you know, I don't know. I'm just, I don't like listening to her voice. Or you know what, that guy, you know, he was a CNN guy.

Be open, listen. If nothing else, you'll sharpen the tools of your own beliefs. I'll see you next time. News Nation, 8P, 11P, every weekday night, Eastern. Let's get after it.