The Chris Cuomo Project - The North Carolina Stabbing That Shouldn’t Have Happened

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

On August 22, 23-year-old Iryna Zarutska, a Ukrainian refugee, was fatally stabbed on a train in Charlotte, North Carolina. The suspect, DeCarlos Brown Jr., had a long history of arrests and court appearances, repeatedly entering and exiting the justice system before this attack. Chris Cuomo looks at what went wrong, from failures in mental health support to the pressures on judges and law enforcement. He explores how crime is covered, the systemic issues behind tragedies like this, and why understanding the full context matters more than partisan spin. Support our sponsors: Try Oracle Cloud Infrastructure for free at http://oracle.com/ccp Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get 20% off + free shipping with promo code CUOMO at http://shopmando.com! #mandopod Go to http://shopbeam.com/cuomo and use code CUOMO at checkout for up to 40% off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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or go to explorevolvo.com. Don't let them do it. Don't let them use this North Carolina stabbing to make a point that it isn't, okay? It's being weaponized by fringe political fanatics to mean something it doesn't. So let's get after it. I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to the Chris Cuomo Project. Thank you for subscribing and following.

Now, let's stop it. before it really starts, okay? This situation in North Carolina happened. It is horrible. It was arguably avoidable. But I don't think it's about race and I don't think it's about coverage presence and I'll make the case why

and why you're being told that. Okay, so what do we know? Beautiful young woman, refugee from Ukraine, came here for safety and then gets stabbed on a train in North Carolina. Charlotte, North Carolina, and killed by a guy who had been in and out of the system over a dozen times. Okay? Her name is Irina Zerutska, okay, just 23 years old.

You've seen her picture everywhere. She's beautiful. It's horrible. Now, this guy, DeCarlos Brown, Jr., is really the story. In fact, Zatriska is frustrating to Maga in terms of making her a victim, even though she's beautiful and white, because she happens to be a refugee from Ukraine. And now you've got Stephen Miller, the president's mouthpiece, coming out and saying, oh, this is so terrible and fighting for justice for her.

He didn't want a single refugee from Ukraine coming here. You see what I'm saying? The agendas get exposed when they become inconsistent because these people just want to make you outraged about everything all the time. And everything is us versus them, us versus them. So Stephen Miller can't even keep us straight, right? He doesn't want the Ukrainian refugees here. Why? Because Russia's the good guy and Ukraine's the bad guy with his warped sense of reality.

But now he's fighting for a refugee who came here. You see what I'm saying? It's just a simple hypocrisy. But this gets so much deeper. And the key, you've got to keep two thoughts in your head at the same time. You've got to keep two thoughts in your head at the same time. For instance, are we focused on reporting on crime that affects blacks more than whites? No, but it can seem like that because blacks are a minority. And when

crime that affects them seems to be a function of their minority status, there is a tendency to protect minorities in American media. Now, can it also be biased? Can it also be anti-white bias? Yes, yes, yes. But I think that's much less of a motivation. And then this situation is being weaponized beyond who the victim is. And it's not just about white versus black. It's what the system did. And the system is under attack also. So what are the facts? So you're seeing all these things. We're going to pass a law to keep judges from letting these people out and not punishing anymore. What did they let him out for? Do you know? Probably not because nobody's telling you, right so here are the facts this guy to carlo brown junior is sick okay not excusing his behavior

not excusing the system for how they dealt with him but he is absolutely not well okay the judge in question who again they can't show her picture enough because she's a black woman but the judge involved did let him out and they were supposed to screen him for competency and didn't. Why? Well, because he didn't come in, so it never happened. Or then why didn't they go arrest him? Because they're stretched too thin. But why did she let him go? For what? You keep being told that he had committed violent crimes before, right? That's not why she let him out. We don't know what judge did that. We know what this judge did because they're showing you her picture. And this was his most recent episode in court. Why was he there? For calling an emergency services network and abusing it

because he was giving reports that a man-made substance was controlling him. That's what he was arrested for. And that's what she let him go for. Not what happened before that. Now, could she have taken into consideration? Yeah, but the system is overwhelmed. And yes, two things can be true at the same time. Two things can be true at the same time.

Meaning what? Why did I say it twice? Because it's consistent with the two things of the theme. yes, a lot of lefties in politics have decriminalized certain things and had anti-prosecution policies. Yes, that's true. Is that true in North Carolina? Not so much. But let's say it is a little bit true with this one judge.

Let's just say, just for the sake of argument, I could take the other side on that, but let's go with it. So they're overwhelmed and they don't like to punish as much. But what she was dealing with was pretty penny-ante. Now, before that, he had gone away for armed robbery. did five years. He got back out and within a number of months, if not weeks, beats up his sister and gets put in jail. That judge let him out. So after serving five years and getting early release, he then has this assault of his sister and a judge lets him out. I don't know if it was this judge. But I'd like to know what judge that was and what the reasoning was for it. But that situation

is something I could see you getting pissed about. Wait, you got let out early five years, armed robbery and then you do an assault and they let you go again. But that's not. where we are in his jacket, in his case file. This was for calling emergency services. So the idea that she let him go isn't that she let go a guy who had done something violent so he could go do something violent again. I don't think that's fair. Because they're not looking to be fair. They're looking to weaponize this. So then you see this bullshit of why are people on the left raising money for him? Why would you raise money for someone? somebody who stabs somebody to death. An innocent person. Why? Because it's about getting him

treatment for mental illness? I don't think so. I think it's about this stupid us versus them binary battle to the bottom. So now the right jumps on this. It happened to August 22nd and says nobody's been covering it. Nobody's been covering it. Now, is that true? Yeah. It is kind of true that people haven't been covering this. News Nation has been covering it, but now everybody's to cover it, but the question is why? Don't let them get you twisted up about what this isn't about. Look, I can take you through how we know that for all the cases that you can point out and cherry pick, where because it's a black person who's being victimized, it gets a lot of media attention. I think most of those have to do with policing, frankly. Why? Because that is

a real concern, endemic and systemic, about how police deal with people of color in poor neighborhoods. That's a real thing. Now, why? Because statistically, it's shown, and you can chop up the statistics all you want. It is still notionally something that people in those communities are concerned about. So we cover it and we cover it that way. But the idea that whites are under attack and ignored by the media, let's take a couple of examples, okay? Once a the last time you heard about a missing black woman? When's the last time? Think about it. Google it. Google it. You've got to be white and good looking if we are going to do a Natalie Holloway on you or any of these other ones. Do you think if those four college kids in Idaho may they rest

in peace and may their families find a way to heal somewhat? But do you think if they've been four black kids, you think that it would have been the same with a white guy, chopper? them up, some would-be, wannabe, serial killer, scumbags, psycho? I don't know. I can't tell you, because I've never covered one like that. And it's not because black college students don't get killed. But why do we cover those so much? Because they're good-looking white kids. That's part of it. The good-looking white kids who go missing. That's part of it. So the idea that we ignore whites, I'll give you another great example, okay? And this will get a little controversial. what's happening in New York City right now with crime it's bad right that's what you think right it's bad

why is crime bad in New York City because armed robberies and burglaries and homicides are up nope what do you mean no Cuomo's wrong again no I'm not check the statistics now if you want a cherry pick and start talking about people being killed who are white and people being killed or assaulted or are, you know, victimized in any way in midtown and where the affluent tend to be, now it's getting more attention and creating a perception that the city is out of control when the statistics do not show that crime is out of control, unless you really, really cherry pick. Why? Because there is deference and concentration on what affects that population of well-to-do white people, working white people in areas where they don't want to

see any crime. So in the hood, right, or in lower socioeconomic communities, lower strata socioeconomic communities, crime is trending the right way, let's say, right, in terms of less and less serious crime. And yet the perception about the city is what? That it's out of control. that is weaponizing a narrative and pervert it for advantage. The media doesn't cover white people because they only care about minorities. That's what you're hearing all over social media and it's creating all this energy. Isn't it just as true that now you're going to hear about this story a lot because it has a beautiful white victim? You don't think that's true also?

And well, but they weren't doing that right away. okay and you want to say that's because they like to protect black guys really in business you know how they say you can have better cheaper or faster but you only get to pick two of those three what if you could have all three at the same time that's exactly what cohere thompson reuters and specialized bikes have because they all upgraded to the next generation of the cloud oracle cloud infrastructure or OCI. OCI is the blazing fast platform for your infrastructure, your database, application development, and, of course, AI needs. That's where you can run any workload in a high availability, consistently high-performing environment,

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CCP for the Chris Cuomo project. That's Oracle.com slash CCP. Look, you have an impression that immigrants kill people, and one is too many. The one and too many part, of course, bothers me. Why? Because you don't decide that about anything else that doesn't resonate with you politically, the way this does. These people should have never been here. Yeah, and there are a lot of criminals who shouldn't have been let out on the street. There are a lot of sentences that aren't like.

There are a lot of teachers that got moved. There are a lot of priests that got moved. There are a lot of bad people, white people, who get moved through different systems and allow it to violate again. Most pedophiles are white. Most mass shooters are white. And I'm not saying it's because they're white, okay? I don't believe that white means criminal in any more way than I do. Black means criminal. You know what color means criminal? Green. If you don't have green, there's a better chance that you're going to be a criminal. Yes, people transcend their economic. realities all the time. My father did it. His old family did it. Broke, but built themselves up and were better. But I'm saying that don't fall for it. Don't let them do this. Don't let them make these opportunists about the media and us and them. It's bullshit. And they're doing exactly what they're accusing the media and the left of, which is what? Which is cherry picking a victim

and selecting coverage to advance an agenda. Because look, what do they not want to talk about, really, in any real way? They want to punish mentally ill people when they commit crimes. That's what they want to do. Death penalty, put them in jail, prosecute, prosecute, prosecute, prosecute. Homeless people are constantly depicted on the right as bad as, you know, living in their own shit all over the streets. They're dogs, their pigs, they're drug addicts. They're desperate.

Well, that's not even a true picture of the homeless population, by the way. Do you know how many – look, if people are homeless long enough, are they going to be more susceptible to addiction? Yeah, because what would you do? I mean, how much hardship are you going to deal with? How long can you be displaced and desperate and not turn to some type of, you know, self-medication or addiction or something like that or crime? I mean, how long would you hold out?

Oh, I'd never let myself get that way. Yeah. There's a growing number of people in this country who are, you're going to be. We're a couple of checks away from being on the street. And either we deal with it or we don't, but we shouldn't be twisting it. So they like to demonize when it suits them, the brown menace of immigrants. You would think that immigrants come here and kill at a disproportionate rate to citizens. And you'd be right, disproportionately low, but you would think that people who come over here, they're bad.

It's like they're breaking into the house, right? now wouldn't that metaphor change if you knew that the people who own the house invited them in coaxed them in paid for them to come and paid for them to come and do work in the house that they didn't want to have to pay other people to do the same rate with the same protections that's the real metaphor of what's happening here not for everybody there are a lot of scumbags sneaking in to sell drugs and traffic people and do terrible things and you absolutely had to secure the southern border. But don't let a situation get twisted for political advantage. And that's what's happening with this. What do they want to happen with this guy? Throw him in jail forever.

Is that the best way to deal with mental illness? Do you think you're going to cure his mental illness or treat it or improve it in prison? No, but we don't give a fuck. You just want to punish him. That's what you want to do. There is no compassion. There is no empathy. There is only advantage. And the only time you even see expressions of those virtues is when it's for your own. And a lot of times it's with blinders on so that you give the benefit of unreasonable doubt to people on your side and no benefit of the doubt, of any doubt, on the other side, your opponents, which is all fake, it's all fabricated for advantage in this stupid binary political system that we're in. It's death penalty for Brown.

And shit, I don't know that they wouldn't want a death penalty for the judge. But you've got to look at the system and how the system works and doesn't work. And when it comes to mental health, man, we do not do a good job. We do not help people. We do not figure out how to get him help when they don't want to help themselves. And this guy is a byproduct of that system. And instead of attacking it to improve that, you just want to punish him, kill him. And that'll be the end of it.

And that feels good because he did something terrible. he killed somebody who had every reason to live she's beautiful she's young she was escaping violence i get it but it's poison it's poison and i'm not saying that it's not wrong of course it's wrong i'm not saying he doesn't deserve consequence for it of course he does they're going to give him his competency exam i don't think he's going to pass it which means he's going to be found incompetent which means it can't even be, he can't even stand trial. And a lot of you will be pissed off and frustrated by that. A lot of people will.

Why? Why should someone who is non-composementous, who believes that someone else is controlling their thoughts and actions, why would you want to expose them to the justice system that you or I would go through as somebody who with full knowledge of the nature and consequence of their actions did whatever they did? Why would you want that? What is that feeding? Don't let people feed on that if you can oppose it.

And this is one of those situations. And look, Stephen Miller shows you the hypocrisy. He didn't want this lady in the country. But now that she's here, he wants to be her superhero. And kill the guy who is too sick in all likelihood to know what the fuck he was doing. Oh, you're making excuses for the bad guy. No, I'm not. I'm trying to understand why it happened and what I can do about it to make it happen less often.

That's not what they care about. You're not going to kill all mentally ill people who commit crimes. I mean, that's not who we are, are we, or is that who we are now? And yeah, it was stupid to defend Brown. It's stupid to defend and raise money for this guy. He's, you know, the system failed him, but he's not the sympathetic one in this. Should he be? I don't know.

We're not there. We're not there. but again look at the facts here all right he called 911 complaining he had a man-made substance controlling him that's what this judge let him go for that's why you're demonizing her does that sound fair to you it shouldn't it shouldn't sound fair because it's not but this isn't about fairness it's about fealty to a side it's about advantage and it's about white fright making people who are white feel feel afraid that the media and the system is against them so that they seek support and protection from these panderers, these profiteers on the far right. That's what this is. That's what's

happening. More police resources. That's the solution. More infrastructure to help with mental health. That's how you do it. Not National Guard. National Guard's not going to really make anything safer. Sure, there's less chance you'll come out on the streets if there's a Humvee there with a couple of guys with automatic weapons. Sure. Sure. Is that how you want to live in America? Is that a, really?

A military state? Come on. The laws don't even allow it. It's not even a close call. It's not even a close call. Oh, he gets to decide what an emergency is. No, he doesn't. Not to that level.

No more with tariffs than with the National Guard. You can't send them into police, period. Why? Because we're not a military state. That's why. That's why. There are better ways. Crime is coming down all over the country.

Nobody's doing it by shooting all the mentally ill people. Nobody is doing it by bringing in military to sit there. How are they doing it? Targeted policing. More policing. Working with resources of communities about what they need to give people avenues of opportunity, avenues of dignity so they don't turn to crime, dealing with crime what it happens.

And yes, prosecution is. Part of that. Not everybody's going to benefit from a diversion program. People have to be punished. People have to be off the street, especially for high quality crimes. And yes, the left is fucked up on that. But what the right is doing now, to weaponize something like this, to make white people feel that no one cares if you're getting killed, especially when you're going to use a white person that you said you didn't even want here. Fall is here, my brother's football season, yard work, maybe even some hunting or fishing trips. But the Let's be honest, staying fresh, a little bit more of a challenge. That's why you need to hear about Mando deodorant, from your pits to, well, everywhere else. Mando high-performance odor control and sweat control. That actually lasts all day. Forget the colognes.

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Because we don't give a shit about the whites. Come on. It's crazy. It's demonstrably false. Don't let them do it. Don't let them twist this for advantage. They don't have the facts right. They don't have the fix right.

they don't have the fix right. They don't have the facts right. They don't have the fix right. And they don't give a shit because this is just about advantage. This is an opportunity, not just to say that they're wrong, but show what is right. What would have made this less likely? What programs? What funding?

What resources? What policies would have made it less likely that this guy would have been on the street untreated, unmedicated, unattended to? because that's not what they want. They just want to shoot the guy. They just want to kill him. Oh, well, you heard about Daniel Penny. You think you would have heard about Daniel Penny? The curly-haired former military guy,

which everybody made a big deal that he was former military. Like, that's why he was, that's why he would kill somebody on a subway train because he's military. So unfair to the men and women in the military. I hated that story. I hated what it became about. But he had people around him.

he wind up being exonerated at trial, found not guilty, right? You think we would have covered it the same way if he wasn't white? You don't think, you think that guy was demonized because he was white? I don't think so. I don't think so. I think that he got a fairness because he was white and for a lot of people, because he was in the military and he seemed to be wanting to do the right thing with his life. Now, you do know that most crime is intracial, right? this idea that like blacks are killing whites all the time you know whites kill whites black white kill white black kill black why because they live around each other because there's there's more interconnectivity with one another so the idea that we have a problem with blacks

killing white people can you skew statistics to show that sure but it's not the norm it's not really a thing there are solutions if you want to lower crime the national guard is not it there are solutions to dealing with people who are mentally ill and can become violent, which is a very small group of mentally ill. Yes, I know you see them all the time, but we're cherry-picking the instances to paint a reality. Statistically, people who suffer for mental illness, statistically, are more likely, more probable, higher chance of being a victim of violent crime than an assailant. Illegal entrance in this country, unless you count the mysticism.

or felony of the entry or multiple illegal entries are more likely to not commit violent crimes than the rest of the citizenry. These are the realities. How you twist them, how you allow to be twisted is a separate question. I'm not saying that this guy deserved to be on the street, but I'm saying I understand how it happened, given our system and the loopholes in it that aren't just about prosecution being soft on crime, but we're soft on mental health. and helping we don't want to fix we just want to fight we don't want to fix they don't want to make it better but there's an opportunity in that where are the better ideas how do you help people who are living on the street how do you help people who are out of control with their mental illness so that they

don't become a statistic no matter how small the percentage is how do we do better killing this guy? Is that really the policy fix that's going to make this less likely going forward? Because it would assume that a mentally ill person would know not to commit a crime because they're going to get killed or they're going to get severely punished, which kind of forgets that they may not be able to develop mens rea, the mental component, the intent to commit the crime in the first place because of the illness. And again, I'm not saying that all mentally ill people are violent. they're not but this is a boogeyman case they're making it a boogeyman case as proof of how weak and soft the system is and then the president helps him out you know it's like the bruce springsteen one step forward's two step back he said the right thing about vaccines you should follow the

science but now he doesn't want to follow the science on this he says this is for democrats for letting them out i mean why not say how to make it better where's that kind of leadership That's your opportunity in this. Let me tell you, a lot of people think you just get a microphone and you're ready to podcast. That's not how it works. Between planning episodes, research and topics, you know, and that overnight spiral where you're rethinking everything and you're not really sure and you can't go to bed and you're not exactly awake either. They don't even get me started on all that stuff. I knew I needed something to help me actually wind down.

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Go to shopbeam.com forward slash Cuomo. Use the code Cuomo at checkout. Tell them that we sent you. That's shop beam, B-E-A-M dot com slash Cuomo, and use the code Cuomo. You'll get 40% off. Now, one of the things I like doing here with the help of Kalshi, one of my partners, is to show how our collective conscience is manifested in what we're willing to bet on. Two reasons. One, when people are putting their money where their mouth is, I think they think a little bit more. And they make some different calculations. But secondly, it shows where we are as a society in terms of what we think, specifically

with this issue of crime. Because that's what this is really about, is how to use crime as a political device. That's what's going on here. You can't really think you're going to send the National Guard in places and that you're going to have a real demonstrable long-term effect on crime. There's nobody who has any expertise in crime and criminal justice who would go along with that. So what is it really about? It's about hype and it's about politics. And that can be very powerful.

So we see it on Calci and some of the markets that are being made. Will Trump restore local control of D.C. police before October. Now, why do they say before October? Because the Calci guys are smart, first of all. Why? Because that is when he'd have to extend and declare a different kind of emergency, and it would be getting litigated and he would lose. And that's why the numbers are prohibitively, yes, he will restore local control.

Do I agree with that? Before October? No. I don't. This is also why I'm a shuddy gambler. But I don't. Why? Because 91 to 11, okay? I know that that's 102. But why don't I agree with the 91? Because it's working for Trump. And I don't think he's going to stop until he has to. And if it's litigation that tells him he has to stop, he'll appeal. And he'll keep it going. Oh, he's a despot. No, he's an opportunist. He's an opportunist. And this is working for him. And crime is something he stumbled on that connects with the majority, wanting to be safe. You know, I've always heard that in politics.

You know, we hear it all the time in every election cycle. People want to be safe. They want to know their kids are safe. And I'm often like, what do you mean by safe? You know, safe of their future, safe of their opportunities. Because like the idea that someone's going to come in your house and kill them or kill them on the street is usually a little remote in most places in America. We are not, you know, drowning in crime.

But. I get it now. And this is working for him. And it connects with the majority because it's almost an 80-20 issue. Do you want the federal government to help make your community safer? Who's going to say no? I mean, the how becomes relevant, right? Which is, well, they're going to send the military in all over the place. Okay, now you may have a problem with it. But I think it's really interesting as a political thing that it's a no-brainer that the Democrats saying, stay out of Chicago. We got it handled when they're killing each other hand over fist. It's just a bad look. West Moore in Maryland figured that out fast. And he then said, yeah, sure, look, we'll take the help. I disagree about whether or not he's going to give control back to D.C. Now, could I be wrong? Oh, 100%. I'm terrible gambler. And there is such a freneticism to our politics that it makes it really interesting for people to bet on. And I'm okay with them betting on it. I think it gets people invested in a different way. I've certainly seen that in sports. My buddies, now that they're their kids, like my son, they bet on everything every two

minutes. I'm worried about addiction. I'm worried about dependency on it and overdoing it. But they certainly care about the games more than they did before it. They watch with this in a way that I can't even imagine watching. For me, it's just entertainment and a little bit of nostalgia. But with them, it's like every play matters. And I think that this could get people to engage. That's my hope anyway. I'm a little bit of an irrational optimist. But I don't think he's going to give it back until he absolutely has to, to D.C. So I don't believe it's going to happen before October. We'll see.

All right, my friends, thank you for checking out the CalShe markets with me and hearing me out about not letting them do it to you with this North Carolina story. Do not let them pervert it for advantage. see it for what it is know the facts and realize the play that's being made politically because the division is just getting to desperate levels and we have to counter it and it is not that this crime didn't matter because it happened to a beautiful young white Ukrainian refugee that would have only made it more likely to cover it I don't think people were protecting this guy the system may have been failing to protect him

from himself. But two things can be true at once. Don't let them play you for a sucker. I'm Chris Cuomo. Thank you for subscribing and following here at the Chris Cuomo Project. Thank you for checking me out at News Nation, AP and 11P Eastern every weekday night. I appreciate you. We all fall short. The problems are real, but the approach of how we get to a better place remains. You got to get after it every day, every way you can. So let's get after it. Thank you.