The Chris Cuomo Project - The REAL Threat to Free Speech Isn’t Jimmy Kimmel

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

Jimmy Kimmel’s suspension has reignited questions about free speech, corporate power, and what the First Amendment actually covers. Chris Cuomo explains why this isn’t a constitutional case, why Disney had the legal right to act, and how judgment about whether the decision was right is separate from what the law requires. He also compares the public response to Kimmel with how his own suspension was handled, highlighting inconsistencies in accountability. But Cuomo argues the bigger issue isn’t Kimmel at all. While traditional media companies face clear legal standards and business risks, social media platforms operate with almost no guardrails. From Section 230 protections to algorithm-driven outrage, he breaks down why platforms like X and Facebook hold the real power over speech today — and why that imbalance threatens public discourse. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Join Chris Ad-Free On Substack: http://thechriscuomoproject.substack.com Support our sponsors: Go to http://drinkag1.com/CCP to get a FREE Frother with your first purchase of AGZ. Go to http://GetSoul.com and use the code CUOMO for 30% off Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All right, let's talk about Jimmy Kimmel now that we've seen how both sides have processed it. We've gotten left and right, and it's time to be reasonable, to understand the law, and then to understand preference what we know and what we don't know, okay? Chris Cuomo here. Welcome to the Chris Cuombo Project. And look, this is a tough one for people like... Me, why? I am in the free speech business, meaning the marketplace of ideas, meaning more ideas, more better. Do I think that there need to be standards? Sure, they have to be standards. You should have your

standards. I should have my standards. Okay, what about legal standards? We know what they are. Jimmy Kimmel being acted upon, let's say, by Disney, ABC, is not about the law. They have. have the right, and I'll explain why, it doesn't mean that you think what they did is right or that I think what they did is right. But that's about our opinion, not the law, okay? Now, for those who say this is a First Amendment issue, is it? No, not really. Wait, why am I making space? I'll explain. The First Amendment only applies to government regulation of speech, okay? That's about what the government can do. not private businesses, except for them violating other laws, like what, FCC laws, workplace laws,

ERISA laws, that kind of stuff. But what is the First Amendment about government regulation? So why do you say not really? This is about corporate interest. Okay, because what if the decision by Disney was made because, the Trump administration came down on them and said, you better do this. Otherwise, whatever you want from us, we're not going to happen.

Now, two things, okay? One is, I only know what you show. I see these big shot journalists making the case that, you know, this is about a transaction, this is about a future transaction, this is why they're doing it. Where's the proof? Now correlation is causation. So because Paramount was doing its deal,

that's why they settled Trump's lawsuit. Okay, you can have that as an opinion. I didn't like that they settled the lawsuit. I think they should have won. I don't think they were going to lose that 60 Minutes lawsuit. I don't care what you think about the edit of Kamala Harris's interview. They've always edited their interviews. Everybody who does long-form journalism edits, it's very rare live to take.

Very rare. Very rare you see the whole interview anywhere, except on live TV. So that was always a bullshit scenario for me. And I may think that they were influenced, but I don't know. Why? Because I don't have any sourcing on it. And I haven't seen any way. So, but I can think it.

I'm free to think it. Now we're seeing it again. They suspended Jimmy Kimmel. Why didn't they fire him? If it's that kind of pressure, if it's quid pro quo, why didn't they fire him? Why isn't he off who wants to be a million? millionaire. Why isn't it they say he's never going to do the Oscars again? Okay, so I don't know. We got to add that into the mix, though. And all these people are saying who's about the

transaction, one, are they being transparent about how they feel about Jimmy and whether they're friends of Jimmy? Because I've got to tell you, I hear people arguing that this seems to be about a corporation caving to something political. I didn't hear that when it was made from these same people when it was a mob effect coming after my employer because they didn't like that I was helping my brother and that there was pressure being put on. And I don't know that that wasn't also coming from the administration that didn't like my brother. I don't know. I don't know whether they did. I don't know whether they didn't. But nobody was being speculative about that. Why? They felt differently about me than they do about Jimmy Kimmel. That's okay. I feel differently

about my situation than I do about Jimmy Kimmel. I actually think my situation was more complicated than Jimmy's. What we're being told is that this is about him saying that Charlie Kirk's assassin was a MAGA guy. Now, do you have the right to be wrong? I would argue, yes, yes, there is a right to be wrong in terms of the government punishing you for saying things that they think that are wrong for you to say. Now, with very rare exceptions, okay, because the jurisprudence, the law movement, the evolution, has been to protect more and more speech. If you go back to the seminal case about, let's say, hate speech, fighting words, okay? That used to be like, your mama, you know, you stupid guinea, Fredo, okay?

Those used to be fighting words, which was if you say something like that, you have a reasonable expectation of when you say it to me, of me going, bam, right? You have a reasonable expectation of it. So when I hit you, don't be upset because you said something. That was reasonably calculated to get your fucking ass beat. Now, we have seen since Chiplinsky in 1942, whatever the case was, the law has expanded. You saw it in the 70s into the 2000s. Every time it's tested, really, they've said, we need to be a little bit more expansive. So now the test is you have to have a specific and imminent threat that you are speaking to, right?

Like, these fucking fill in the blanks of people I hate, let's go beat their ass right now in the corner of Fifth and Elm and let's find Greg Ott and do him first. Now, this speech is dictating action in a way that is specific and imminent, and maybe they would come after you for it as part of the criminal element of whatever follows. Okay, that's the law. so did Disney violate the law not unless you can prove that they did this because the government was making them do it and not on the basis of this being proscribed hate speech which I don't think it is I think Jimmy Kimmel was wrong why because I don't see any indication uh this guy's uh the assassin's family voted for Trump okay so he was raised by people who voted for

Trump. Does that make him a Trumper? Every piece of allegation proof that they have suggested is that that's not what this is. And we haven't heard the roommate say we didn't have those conversations. We haven't heard the parents say he didn't come forward and admitted to us and that he hadn't been getting more and more angry about Charlie Kirk. And we don't know where that influence came from or not. I'll tell you what I think is being ignored in the Charlie Kirk assassin situation is how nonchalant he was, how delusional he was, how delusional he was. in thinking, oh, my, they're going to be really mad at me because I used my granddad's gun or my dad's gun. That's what you thought they were going to be mad at you about. I think I got away without a trace. Really? You thought that? You didn't think you were on video and pictures all over the place

being shown right after the event? So this guy seems like he wasn't right in the head. He wasn't thinking right. He was nonchalant. His roommate seemed, you know, text is tone free, basically, but seemed shock. Certainly didn't seem to know. what was going to happen. Now, Jimmy says it was a MAGA guy. Maga's trying to make this

political. Do I think he's wrong? Yeah. Do I think he has the right to say it? 100%. Does his employer have the right to fire him for it? Yeah, I think they do. But what if I don't like that they fired him for it? That is your choice, too. And you don't have to pay any money to Disney. You don't have they ever watch any of their stuff or anything like that, if you feel that way. Does Disney have the right to fire him? Yeah, unless we can show that this was wrongful termination because of government pressure, and that's a pretty high bar, just because you think it doesn't really mean anything. You've got to show it, right? Because this is going to be a legal matter. You don't have to like it. You can punish them for it.

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And you'll get it with your first purchase of AGZ. That's drinkag1.com slash CCP. Now, to the extent that I have a conflict on this, why? because my employer's boss owns stations that run Jimmy Kimmel's show and they had said they wanted to pull him before ABC Disney pulled him all together. Okay, here's what I have to say about that.

They hired me, and I'm not a known MAGA guy, nor will I ever be. And I will never be generous to either party because I think the two-party system is killing us. My bosses know that, and they hired me anyway. So the idea that they are MAGA or bust is demonstrably bullshit,

otherwise I wouldn't be there. Oh, you're MAGA now. Fuck you, if you think that about me. Straight up. Straight up, fuck you. And here's why. Because I don't do this for free, not just monetarily, personally. I got people threatening me, threatening my family,

real enough that I have to pay for private security. I don't want to hear it, okay? You may not like my opinions, but do not think that I'm hiding a fucking loyalty, okay? What I am, I tell you I am. When I'm wrong and I realize it, I tell you I am. Why? That's the way I do the job. I am not a MAGA supporter.

Why? I don't believe in these movements. Okay? I think socialism remedies for affordability, which is real, is not the remedy. I think the remedies that you've been pitched by MAGA and now this reaction formation to it on the left are bad remedies. I think the problems are real.

I even think some of the cultural problems are real. I just don't like the solutions that are being offered up by these packs of angry people. I get why they're angry. I get that people are making you angry. In fact, that's part of the Jimmy Kimmel thing. You have so-called self-respecting journalists trying to get you angry about these issues.

And I think they're doing it because that's what gets you paid these days. And there's no question that I'm doing something that is business dumb, which is I will not pick a side. I will say when each side seems to have the righteous cause and when they seem to be bullshit. So this is not a First Amendment issue unless you can show there was government regulation of it. And just because you feel like that, just because Trump can be obnoxious in terms of how he discusses his critics and what should be done to them, that's not the same thing. And I felt the same way about the Biden administration

with the laptop. And I think there was a lot more evidence there that there was absolute government intervention in how that was dealt with as a function of speech in the media. And I didn't see these same people bitching them. Why? Because they have political preferences.

Okay? And that's okay. That's okay. But it is part of a problem. Okay? You're going to have preferences. human beings have preferences. So Jimmy Kimmel is not wrong because it's a violation of his First Amendment rights unless you can prove that the government made Disney do this.

And I have no reason to believe that. Could I be suspicious? Yeah, but that's not how a legal situation works. And that can be really frustrating sometimes. For instance, I think Luigi Mangione is 100% straight up a domestic terrorist, period. Judge said that they didn't present enough evidence that him killing the health care CEO was terroristic in nature. But the grand jury said it was, right. And the judge within the law has the purview, has the power to say, yeah, I didn't find the evidence that they based their allegation on, which is the lowest level, just probable cause.

I met that burden of probable cause. I'm removing those charges. Now, I don't agree. but the law has a standard. Now, that's what really matters here with Jimmy Kimmel. What is the standard? The standard is what his employer feels is good for their brand. That is not about free speech, okay?

It is about getting paid. Disney made a business decision. In fact, I'll give you a fact that nobody has mentioned about this. And again, I have a conflict. I work for Next Star, right? They own News Nation. My defense of my fairness on this is, if they were what you're saying they are or what some are suggesting, I wouldn't be here. If they really had worries about getting their deal through, they would not hire a guy that the president of the United States on a regular basis has a problem with because of how I do my job.

Okay, I'll just put that out there. I'll also put this out there. They don't own a lot of ABC stations, but I do know that there are two most watched ones. one is in Salt Lake City, one is in Tennessee. Those are two trumpy-ass places, okay? So as a business consideration, they got to be taken a beat. I don't know this as a matter of fact, but I do know that's where their two biggest ABC stations are.

And as a business decision, you want to please your community. And the Salt Lake City community in Tennessee, I'm sure, are not happy about what Jimmy Kimmel said, blaming the assassination on MAGA. So that's a business decision. You don't have to like it. They have a right to do it. It's not illegal.

It may be not right in your judgment. It may be wrong. And I think we've seen corporations make wrong judgments. You know I'm a supporter of the woke movement and what it was supposed to be about, Me Too movement. Okay? Not everything that's woke I'm in favor of. But empowering groups that have been forced into silence.

by our culture I thought was a noble cause. Do I think it was executed with nobility? No, not always and in always. But corporations did things then that they thought would be good for their brand. And that's part of business. Now, here's the real issue.

You can feel any kind of way you want about what Disney did with Jimmy Kimmel. Okay? And by the way, I would gladly have him on to discuss why he says, what he said and what he thinks about it. And I'm telling you right now, my employer would allow me to do that. Now, here is the issue that really matters here.

Not Jimmy Kimmel. Why? Look, again, I have a personal perspective on this, right? I didn't become some cause for free speech, even though it was not the same situation. Why? Because I wasn't saying anything about it on my show, right? I didn't report on my brother's situation because he's my brother. Of course, I was helping my brother.

my brother. I didn't do anything that was alleged. I didn't go after his accusers. I didn't try to help him beat the charges in a bad way. I didn't do anything like that, but it doesn't really matter. And I never lied to anybody about it. But I wasn't broadcasting these ideas. And so my employer, I believe, did the wrong thing and for the wrong reason, but it wasn't the same. Here's what is being missed in all this. You may not like what Disney did. But you do recognize, if you know the law and you understand the culture of how we deal with broadcasting and cable, there are standards, there are responsibilities. They will come after News Nation or Nextdoor for what comes out of my face. They will come after Disney for what comes out of Jimmy's face.

Who's they? Anybody who wants to sue? Maybe regulators, if they believe that you are. offending decency. You know where that doesn't exist? The most important aspect of the media in today's society, social media. Elon Musk is from time to time the richest man on the planet, okay? He has no responsibilities beyond his druthers for what happens on his platform. Now, why? In 1996, they passed the internet decency act, okay? If the title itself doesn't tell you how out of touch that is with today, there's more. Section 230 of it says that people like Elon, Zuckerberg, whoever owns

the Chinese and TikTok, whatever, any platform you want. They're not publishers. Disney is considered under the law. Publisher don't think printing books. It's just a legal term of art, meaning you are responsible for the content creation, okay? That's what publisher means. You are responsible for the content creation. That's not applied to them. Why? Because they just build the arena and then all of us come in there and publish all the content. We're the publishers. So you can't go after them for that. It'd be unfair. It would have hampered the growth of the internet and it would have put an unfair burden on that. Okay. And interestingly, a lot of the other provisions of the Internet Decency Act that did try to put some guardrails on it were overturned by the Supreme Court. Why? They got to be really

specific if you want to proscribe speech. Why? Ibar. High bar. Right? Strict scrutiny. What does that mean? It means that that's it. We're the toughest on this. Why? Speech matters. But there are potential guardrails. There are responsibilities. FCC applies to broadcast, right? There's somewhat of a casual extension to cable, even though it's not technically over-air, but these are antiquated understandings of media, as is the 1996 Internet Decency Act, because now 30 years later, not only would I argue that the place is largely a repository of indecency, and I know there's good, bad, and other on social media, but the way it is being used in our politics is absolutely disproportionately evil, okay?

Not just bad, not just wrong, evil. It is fringes feeding you misinformation, disinformation, angry shit, provocative shit to piss you off to make them money. And look, we're talking about what Jimmy Kimmel said, right? You know one of the reasons why it's so bothersome the people? Compare it to a Megan Kelly or any of the pod bros, and you're like, it's nothing compared to what they say, and that's the problem, is that there are,

are no rules there. They can say whatever the fuck they want there. And they do. And it has gotten increasingly worse because it can. And Elon has done the opposite of what Disney, Next Star, ABC, CNN. And by the way, the social media thing, if anything, is leaching on to all of the other media things. How so? If I said, you should shoot homeless people. There is no apology that would save me from getting fired at News Nation. But Brian Kilmeet at Fox made that half-ass apology and he got away with it. Why? That's his corporate.

That's how they feel about it, right? That's how they feel about it, right? If I said to a U.S. senator, we don't have any indication of what Charlie Kirk's assassin was motivated by. And he was like, yeah, we do. It was in the indictment. And I didn't say, well, we haven't seen that proven in a court of law yet. I said, no, no, they weren't clear about the motive. I would be an apology mode for days.

Why, my employer would say, what the fuck are you saying? Did you not read the indictment? Do you not know what is suggested by this? That hasn't been countered by any of the sourcing that was used in that indictment yet. Maybe in the future may not happen in the trial. But my ass would be on the line. Not at CNN. Why?

That's their decision. And you can scrutinize that. There is no such mechanism in social media, and the time has come to reconsider the freedom, the free pass that those guys were given. And by the way, they, you want to talk about corporate influence. Disney, Next Star, they are penny players compared to Elon, compared to Zuckerberg, compared to China. That's where the money is. That's where the corporate influence is. Why do you think there are no guardrails on them?

All those bullshit hearings that we held about the Biden stuff with the tech bros and how they got beat up by Congress because the right was upset. Nothing changed. It is time to reconsider it. Support for the Chris Cuomo project comes from Seoul. And I am happy it does because look, these days, man, do I need a break? a brain vacation and booze does not work for me the way it used to. I'm not judging anybody else,

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Bring on the good vibes. and treat yourself to Soul today. Right now, Soul is offering my audience 30% off your entire order. Go to getsole.com and use the code Cuomo. GetSol.com promo code Cuomo 30% off. During the Volvo Fall Experience event, discover exceptional offers and thoughtful design that leaves plenty of room for autumn adventures.

And see for yourself how Volvo's legendary safety brings peace of mind to every Christmas. morning commute. This September, Lisa 2026 X-E-90 plug-in hybrid from $599 bi-weekly at 3.99% during the Volvo Fall Experience event. Conditions supply, visit your local Volvo retailer or go to explorevolvo.com. So you're upset that Disney made the call they made about Jimmy Kimmel. And people in the media, some of whom are friends with Jimmy Kimmel and not disclose

that to you, are telling you this is about the government influencing corporations. Okay. I don't see any proof of that. And if there is fine, let it come out and I will certainly report on it. And I don't think it's going to affect my job. And I would talk to Jimmy Kimmel on my show about it. So obviously, my employer doesn't want to silence him 100%. They're making a business decision.

And I may not like the business decision. Okay. But that's not what's relevant here. It's not whether I think it's right. It's whether they have the right. And until I see proof of anything else, I know that's frustrating, but you've got to want to be reasonable. You have to want to be correct, not just righteous in your feelings. And you should direct that shit at social media because that's what's killing us.

Them suspending Jimmy Kimmel, social media deserves this same scrutiny. The legal protection they get with Section 230 of the Internet Decency Act doesn't make any sense. And here's why, last point. if you are a publisher because you have control over the creation of the content, if that is the legal definition, Elon Musk and the other guys passed that test all day long because we didn't know in 1996 what we know today. We didn't know how they use the algorithms.

We didn't know how they're now using AI to look at pieces of media and figure out which bits will be most provocative and putting them out as shorts using their own software to do it. We didn't know that they had the ability to monitor what Greg and I are talking about in real time so much that they will send us ads based on what we are saying. We didn't know that they were going to be able to make things trend and that they would put their advertisements near the things that trend as a function of what is being said. So how is that not control over the content? Oh, because they didn't create it. But they're curating it.

They're manipulating it for profit. They absolutely know what's being said. The defense was, I have no idea what Greg Otta is going to say. I have no idea what Chris Cuomo is going to say. I just built the stadium. It's not true anymore. They know exactly what fucking Greg Otta is saying. They sell him shit on the basis of it.

They curate it on the basis of it. They make things trend on the basis of it and their capability. just exploded with AI. They are absolutely taking advantage of it, and there should be a responsibility that comes with that. What is that responsibility? I don't know.

That is for our leaders to put forth as solutions and for us to test in my business and for you to figure out how you feel about it as those who ultimately should have the power over the people who have the power to make the change. I don't know.

I just know that you can't look at the dumpster fire that is social media, which is absolutely enabled, motivated, curated, and promoted by companies who are getting paid a gazillion dollars for it, and these individuals are making a gazillion dollars for it, and there is no accountability. Because if you don't believe that's why everything is so fucked up and that it's actually bleeding into the other forms of media

that do have guardrails around them, you're not paying attention. So, do I care about what happened to Jimmy Kimmel? Yes. Do I think it was right? That's a matter for my own opinion. And I believe that an opinion show like Jimmy's should be given a really wide cut.

And I'll entertain criticisms about how they're not about comedy anymore, what happened to Johnny Carson, now they're so political. Those are all subjective judgments. And you can feel how you feel about it. And I'm fine. with that? Did they have the legal right to do it? Yes, until I hear real proof that they were

manipulated into it by the government insisting they do it, compelling them to do it. Then you have government regulation over speech. I do not see any indication of that. Do I like it? That's my business, right? That's my opinion. And I'm not saying I'm afraid to tell you. I believe in more, not less when it comes to speech. I believe in the marketplace of ideas. Does there have to be a set of guardrails. Sure. Absolutely. And when you don't know what Bob Eiger thinks of what happened with Charlie Kirk's assassination, right? He's the head of Disney. But you know that Elon Musk almost immediately put out a message that the left is the party of murder. And just think about this. Well, that's free speech. Anybody in my business would fire his ass if he had said that. Yeah,

that's why Twitter's great. No, that's why Twitter sucks the big dick. Okay? Because just because you're allowed to say things does not mean that somebody should not have to be held to account for what you just said. Okay? I don't use language like this on News Nation. Why? Because I'm working for somebody else and I'm in their house and I respect their rules. And they have expectations of language and of impact and of messaging. And I know that, because that's what I signed up for, just as it was at CNN, just as it was at ABC News, just as it was at Fox News. Now, do I think all their standards are the same? No, I know they're not. Because I work now at the time that I worked there, I know what the standards were and they were not all the same. That's part of the corporate culture of what they want their brand to be about.

But there is accountability. There is a responsibility that does not apply. on social media and I think it is killing us. Now, I get how you're saying, oh, I want to limit free speech. No, I don't, but there has to be a better way than how we're doing it right now. Other than just preying on the masses to be nicer, oh, that's the fix because that's ever worked in American society, right? You have to reward the right behavior.

That's how you get behavior or modification. But often that right behavior is a function of what they're worried about doing wrong. There's got to be consequences for doing it wrong, and there's got to be an understanding of what wrong means. And our social media doesn't have it. And kitty porn is not enough. Going after human traffickers is not enough, okay? The division in this country is sourced from social media more than anyone else.

And I know that they sell you that no, legacy media, whatever that means, is the problem. Legacy media has guardrails, corporate consideration, and exposure to litigation and economic ramifications. Social media, we have seen none of that for those guys. And there is no question that what is on social media from major purveyors, not just from John Q. Public is so much more inflammatory, incorrect, and often evil. I mean, look at the shit said in reactions.

Look, you have the pod bros, you have them on the right, you know what they've been saying, whether it was about not taking the initial COVID vaccine or never believing science or, you know, any of the things that they say all the time. But in response to the Charlie Kirk assassination, there have been things said about him and how people feel about his murder that would never be allowed at News Nation, would never be allowed anywhere I worked. Now, you can say more is better. You can say that that freedom is making us better. I don't see it. I think it's demonstrably making us worse. So if it's not working for us, if it's not making us better, if it's making us worse, and a big function of that is the complete lack of responsibility and accountability of the people who are getting paid for it,

what does that tell you? To me, it tells me it is time for a change. And I don't know what that means, but I know that the way it is is killing us. What do you think? Let me know because here we believe in a fair exchange. You don't have to like it to get my attention. I'm Chris Cuomo. Thank you for subscribing and following the Chris Cuomo project. Thank you for checking me out on News Nation at AP and 11P Eastern every weekday night. And I believe you should get that free agent gear. We're coming out with a new batch of it. Where are your independence, man, we've got to get away from these parties. They're killing us. They're killing us. The pack mentality is killing us. The problems are real. We've got to. to get focused on solutions if we want anything to get better. Let's get after it.