The Chris Cuomo Project - What To Keep In Mind About Israel

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

From CUOMO on NewsNation, Chris Cuomo breaks down the complexities of the conflict between Israel and Palestine. He examines the justifications given for violence on both sides, the binary culture fueling misguided activism, and the role of Arab states in the crisis. Follow and subscribe to The Chris Cuomo Project on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday: https://linktr.ee/cuomoproject Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When it comes to the war in Israel against Hamas or Gaza or Palestine or the Middle East conflict, however you want to look about it, there are certain questions and there's certain context that's being lost. I'm Chris Cuomo. Thank you for subscribing and following. It's good to have you here. I got three different bites at the apple for you about how to see what's happening there in the context of what we lived here on 9-11, what it means in terms of the state of conflict. Also, how you should be looking at who is to blame and for what. And then the idea of why is this just an Israeli issue?

Why is it binary, either Palestine bad or Israel bad? There's a lot you're not being told. So let's get after it. The first idea is when it comes to the Middle East and what Israel is being asked to do, how do we understand what America did after 9-11 and what we were asked to do? Take a look. I have been really reporting hard on what's happening, what's going to happen, what does the U.S. want, what do the regional allies want, what is it Egypt's saying, is Syria getting involved? There are a lot of pieces. There have never been easy answers in the Middle East. And it's, I don't know what the right word is,

but it is confusing that people are thinking, well, shouldn't, just hold it right there, shouldn't we just have a reason, a quick reason to fix? Isn't there a quick fix? I know this is America. I know we love quick fixes. I know we all want to be, you know, a quick reason to fix? Isn't there a quick fix? I know this is America. I know we love quick fixes. I know we all want to be, you know, a quick shot away from losing 50 pounds. A lot of the tough problems in life don't have simple solutions. The Middle East is one of them for generations. Okay. The battle over this land that is now called Israel, has been going on for many, many generations. Long before there was any Palestine, there was a battle over this, okay? Long before any of us, this was going on long before 1948. The translation of the very word Israel refers to one who struggles with God, and this struggle has always been so real.

So suggestions like, just stop the violence, stop the violence in Palestine, like we hear echoing across college campuses, must be scrutinized. First, why would Israel do that? Does anyone think Hamas would stop testing the Iron Dome? Is there any proof of that? Is there any reason to believe that's even possible? How can you so easily ignore the absolutely inhumane terrorist attack that started this latest conflict? I don't understand it. I understand what's happening

in Gaza. I understand what's happening in the West Bank. I understand what's happening in North Africa. I understand what's happening in Yemen. Bank. I understand what's happening in North Africa. I understand what's happening in Yemen. Palestine is not alone in its suffering. It is not even unique in its suffering. But it is real, no question. I've just never seen suffering looked at in isolation, separate from a major terrorist attack, the likes of which I've never seen. Israel should release the photos and videos that show the kinds of intentional mutilation and unbelievable violence that was perpetrated and celebrated against women, elderly, and children. And no, bombing the way Israel is right now is not the same.

It is not solely intended to mutilate the innocent. That's what Hamas did. That's why Hamas is designated a terrorist group, and Israel is not. So just asking Israel to stop attacking a group that just demonstrated its desire to end them is asking a lot. But they're causing so much damage to civilians. True. And terrible. And terrible to watch. But remember why. Hamas hides among the civilians.

In their homes, in buildings that are supposed to be designated for other things. Keeps them in danger zones after being told where bombs are going. Why? Because they feed on the suffering. It creates recruits, it creates outrage and anger, and that's how they get more drawn to their cause. Context. America was asked by those in the region to exercise restraint after 9-11. Do you remember that? If you're under 30-something, you probably don't.

Google it. College campuses weren't calling for a ceasefire the same way then, and America likely would have ignored it. Or, I'll tell you really the truth, and I don't like to say this, if these college kids had been mouthing off about, we got what we deserved, the way they're saying about Israel right now, this would have been a very violent time in this country. And thank God it didn't happen then, and I hope it doesn't happen now. I say this as a matter of fact and feeling. Remember, America went into the wrong country after 9-11 on bad intelligence that may have been faked and stayed after knowing they were in the wrong place. And if you think the country would have tolerated support for al-Qaeda's actions,

as we're hearing now, it would have been bedlam. Again, I've seen a lot of acts of terror. I've seen a lot of brutality. I've seen a lot of death. I've seen a lot of heads and things chopped off and burned and all the different things that you see in movies. I've never seen a group celebrate and enjoy what I saw with my own eyes that I hope you get to see as well. And the fact that it's being ignored here by so many or rationalized by so many is unbelievable to me, especially

younger people. I guess you're too young to remember what 9-11 meant for the next 10 years of our lives. And also something you should know, Israel tried walking away before, after the second Intifada. Israel left the West Bank, pulled out a lot of its people and its control. 2000. What happened? Hamas immediately swept into power and terror commenced. And please, at a minimum, stop referring to Hamas's armed wing. Do we say Al-Qaeda's armed wing as opposed to what? The peaceful nonviolent wing? Please, this is propaganda. This is deception. It is fakery. Now, all this said, I do believe that where we are right now with these calls for restraint, two arguments can be made for why it may be worth it for Israel, no matter how painful, no matter how risky, to stay the course of restraint, which is what's

happening now. You think that this is a full-scale invasion. You think that this is what they have planned. You're wrong, and it's not a secret. The only way to root out Hamas is to literally go neighborhood by neighborhood. Now, I think conceptually that doesn't work because you're fighting an idea, not an organization. We learned this the hard way. Taliban, then AQAP, then Al Qaeda proper, then ISIS. It just keeps changing, metastasizing, moving. It's an idea. As long as there is poverty and oppression and suffering and religion, there will be this. So there is absolutely a question of risk to leave Hamas in place. There's no reason to believe anything better can come out of them. They're terrorists. terrorists. However, it also, if they stay out of it, could be seen as a sign of weakness in the region and trigger other actors to get involved. However, here are the two reasons why this course may be the best for now. One, the hostages. Can't forget them. Hundreds, unprecedented,

including an unknown or unreported number of Americans. What happens if all the Americans get killed? What do you think? We're going to do nothing? Holding the invasion could lead to more releases. The U.S. believes this, as do regional mediators. 50 more were promised, but Hamas wanted fuel. Oh, what's the big deal? Hospitals, civilians, they need fuel.

You got to give it to them. It's a humanitarian thing. What does Hamas do? Do you know how much of the fuel that they take for their bombings that's intended to go to the innocents? And do you know how much of it they use for their tunnel systems so that they continue sneaking in to perform acts of terror and to hide and to hide hostages? You see, it's not that simple. They pretend Israel's just denying the needy, but that's deceptive. Now, second, and look, the biggest reason, I care about the hostages acutely. I've never seen that dynamic in this conflict before.

Yes, you had Antebi in North Africa, but not like this. And we had in Iran when they went after the embassy in 1979 and we lost all those people. But not like this. Not innocents who had no business, no role. A lot of them peaceniks. Taken. It's horrible. A lack of invasion on top of the hostages could mean that a regional conflict is suppressed. You know, Israel has been gearing up for a war with Hezbollah, which makes Hamas look like a bunch of punks. Okay, they're the largest non-state standing force in the region. They've been preparing for years, and Israel has been preparing for them. That's really what their military is set up for, not what they're doing

with Hamas right now, not this door-to-door urban fighting. But if we can avoid that, and we can stay out of it, it may be worth the pain and the risk. Not that I do not believe Israel is justified to go after Hamas because I do. But because we certainly would. All right. And there but for the grace. We're going to talk tonight about what happens on the southern border and why they're putting that big bunch of money into this aid package for Ukraine, Israel, and our southern border.

You know why? It's not just about the wall. God forbid, just like after the second intifada, which was in 2000, a year later, not even, we got hit. Terror metastasizes, spreads. It gives them courage when they see one group succeed. God forbid they come across the southern border and do something to us here. Not only would it be explosively destructive because all we would do is blame one another in this place. I really

believe that. That's so sad to me. But if you think what Israel is doing to Gaza right now is bad, what do you think the American military would do if Hamas found its way into the United States or through its proxies and killed Americans here? There would be no cry from an American campus that would mean a damn in the face of that. Remember that. What you're asking of Israel, would you ask it of America? And do you think you would get the response that you have gotten thus far from Israel? Do you think that America would have paused the way Israel has paused? I know they're bombing. I know it's intensifying. But they're not doing anything like what we did after 9-11. They want to. And they got more justification than we did. Because we didn't have an existential threat.

Nobody was going to wipe us out. We weren't surrounded on all sides. Context. All right? I talked way too much. Dusty's going to be mad at me. But I'm telling you, I've been spending all weekend on this. I've been talking to dozens and dozens of people

and there are too many who don't get it. And we need to get it because otherwise we're going to get involved. And then we're going to have nothing but regret. We don't fake the funk here.

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First, I don't believe in ignoring arguments because I don't like them or I don't agree. I think we have to engage. You cannot censor. We have to discuss so that the best idea can win. So some food for thought. With this surprising debate raging on social media, especially among the young, as many as half of people under 40 see Hamas's actions on October 7 as justified. Sickens a lot of you. But you have to deal with it. So let's do that. Here's the main assertion. Palestinian suffering is unacceptable. Must stop. Agreed. By all, including Israeli leaders. The teeth of it is, Israel is doing whatever Hamas

did on October 7 and more. That is unfortunately, demonstrably, and overwhelmingly disprovable in both manner and matter of intention. Forget the two wrongs making a right argument. Forget about considering the basis of what you decide to support as justifiable or even acceptable. Let's just deal with it as a matter of fact. The argument is Hamas was justified because Israel is killing children and innocents.

Yes, they are. But I don't know how and how many because the sourcing is too often from Hamas and is often deceptive, like with the hospital bombing, like with the faked photos and faked scenes that they put out routinely. And remember, with that hospital bombing, too many even in the media, not us, were way too comfortable relying on terrorists for reporting. And so, we all should agree that killing in Palestine must stop as soon as possible. Takes us to when? I think you would be hard-pressed to find historical precedent of countries who were attacked the way Israel was, and we'll get to that in a second, stopping before they knew they had eradicated their enemy. America certainly didn't after 9-11. We spent a decade and then some starting in the wrong country, then moving to others, killing whomever

we could connect to the intentions of hurting us here at home. And yet Israel is not doing that, not yet anyway, not invading on the ground the way they believe they must to eradicate the threat to their own safety known as Hamas. Takes us to the biggest problem, the problematic notion that Hamas was justified in desperately attacking their oppressor because of what Israel is doing to them. So they just gave Israel a taste of their own medicine. That's the argument. Listen, that's the argument. You show me Hamas making a claim that Israel did to them what a coroner told us today. Listen.

They were shot in the head. They were birthed alive. They were mutilated. We saw genitals cut off, heads cut off, babies, hands, feet. No reason. We saw also people shot in the head so many times long after they were dead. We even saw them shot in the head after there was no more blood. There was no reason.

This was just abject cruelty. And there's reports about women being raped. Can you confirm this? Yes. We have seen that women have been raped. Children through elderly women have been raped. Forcible entry to the point where bones were broken. Bones were broken from the rape of the elderly. Yeah, but it's justifiable.

I support that. Because what's happening in Palestine is wrong. Is that what you want to be about? That makes sense? Show me the accounts or a shred of proof, even from Hamas, that Israelis did this. What was done to these people of southern Israel. I saw beheaded bodies. I saw body parts. There is one of my friends who was in Kfar Azzam. He told me that he found in one house a husband and wife and two children. They killed the husband first. They took his eyes out.

I saw the body by myself. They took the eyes out and they saw the body by myself. They took the eyes out and they cut the breast of the woman and they cut the leg of the girl. That's the family that I saw with my own eyes. It's fair. Israel's cutting off water, power. Well, cut off your breasts. Israel's cutting off water, power. Well, cut off your breasts. Does that make sense? Is that okay?

You see an equivalence there. Well, but he's lying, and so is the lady. Hey, listen, fair pushback. Israel should put out whatever pictures they have documenting what is being said. Put it out. I don't care who doesn't sleep. Nobody's sleeping anyway. The truth matters more than anybody's feelings. Ten days after the attack, over 350 bodies still can't be identified because they're so mutilated. They are in pieces. Suspected civilians,

not identified. Now, here's the other argument. Forget about the manner of destroying human life. Convenient, but okay. Human life is being destroyed in Palestine and at a larger scale than what happened in Israel. And the same kinds of people are dying. Elderly, young mothers, the same as were butchered in Israel. Okay. And that's because Israel is carpet bombing, right? You see it everywhere. The carpet bombing. Genocide. They are not carpet bombing.

First of all, that would be a war crime. No monitoring agency has made the claim that that's what's happening. Oh, they're all lying. Fine. Carpet bombing would mean they're using largely unguided bombs to indiscriminately bombard a selected or entire area. I've seen it. Historical precedent. The first one we really saw was in Barcelona in 1938.

Berlin, London, Pearl Harbor. That's carpet bombing. Israel is absolutely using guided weapons. Oh, what's the difference? The way they're bombing. Here's the difference. Oh, what's the difference the way they're bombing? Here's the difference.

You don't give warnings locally and generally about where you're going to bomb when you carpet bomb. When your intention is to specifically kill as many as you can, you don't give them a heads up. It doesn't make sense. Nobody does that. Okay? Hamas gets those warnings, tells people not to leave, is now reportedly not letting Americans leave through Rafah. Why? Why would you not let Americans leave? Because the suffering is currency. is currency. Now look, Palestine's suffering is at the hands of Hamas as much as it is on Israel. They want to be safe. Israel clearly doesn't want to occupy and kill all Palestine and Palestinians. How do we know? Because they could have, and they would have, long ago. If this were about what they want, it would have been over. And yet Israel is accused of genocide. And Hamas, provoking all this on October 7, is defended by way too many

as just desperate. So Israel is the one trying to commit genocide, not Hamas. Anyone who believes that Hamas is justified because of the desperation must also ask, if Hamas is justified, why isn't Israel justified by desperation? Well, Hamas is. Look what's happening in Palestine. Oh, but Israel doesn't have any cause for desperation. A people with a legacy of being hunted, the victims of a Holocaust in a place the size of New Jersey, surrounded by enemies who have made it clear they don't just want the land, they want the people on it to not exist. Fact. not exist. Fact. The Israelis just watched terrorists do exactly what they fear most again, in a way that hasn't happened since the Holocaust. And what Hamas did is not only supported

by the enemies who surround them, who are suggesting they want to get involved. But even here in America, the home of their largest assumed ally and within the ranks of the party of America's president. But they shouldn't be desperate. They shouldn't worry about who's going to help them. They shouldn't worry about their own safety. But Hamas is justified. The argument fails. The feeling of wanting to help Palestine is real and virtuous and necessary.

But see the real threat. the real threat. If Hamas goes, if terror does not lead that place, then you have a legitimate case that Israel should have a unified front against its actions in Palestine, because there is no longer an existential threat to them. Start there. We don't fake the funk here, and here's the real talk. Over 40 years of age, 52% of us experience some kind of ED between the ages of 40 and 70. I know it's taboo, it's embarrassing, but it shouldn't be. Thankfully, we now have HIMS, and it's changing the vibe by providing affordable access to ED treatment, and it's all online. HIMS is changing men's health care. Why? Because it's giving you access to affordable and discreet sexual health treatments, And you do it right from your couch.

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the addiction to grievance, the here's what's right, here what's wrong, picking a side, and a lot of it is misguided, even if well-intended. How so? Take a look. The Middle East holds no easy answers, never has. It is unclear at this point what will ensure Israel's safety and how that safety can be balanced with the rights and needs of the Palestinians. But I do think there's a little bit too much of a binary focus in this country when viewing the conflict. Some of the events are bizarre. Jewish people are afraid in America in a way that I've never seen. Talking about changing their names. Do we need to get guns?

Should the kids not be in school? Because of what they see online and on college campuses, which are supposed to be all about tolerance, especially these days, right? Except they're allowing intolerance of Jewish people. Slow down. Now, we have to think about this for a second, okay? They are allowing people to protest against a minority group using some of the most horrible suggestions. Imagine any campus allowing signs of ridding the world of black people or of gay people. That would never happen on a college campus, and that's a good thing, but not with Israel, even though Jewish people are only 2% of this country. Now, of course, Israel is unique,

for better and worse. They are the little guy who is stronger than their enemies, or at least they have been in the past. So they were once seen as David or Goliath, depending on your take. They're also seen by many, and this is controversial, but I do believe this is part of the equation. Many people who are protesting against Israel and Jewish people in America see Jewish people as just more white people. And as such, they are part of an empowered majority. So there is no fear of bigotry against them. But that's not true when it comes to Jewish people. They're not just other Caucasians. The world has seen that too many times of how there can be a bloodlust for taking Jewish life. However, all that binary controversy, which I guess should not come as a surprise here

anymore, everything is looked at through the lens of division. We are addicted to grievance. But there is something being missed in all of this focus on limiting the right and wrong analysis and who should do what to just Israel when it comes to Palestine's welfare. Where is the inclusion of the Arab community in this analysis? For all the talk of Arab brotherhood and Arab states condemning Israel and encouraging uprisings and basically holy war against them, the same countries, even those bordering Palestine, offer no solutions for the Palestinians, other than erasing Israel. No safe haven for Palestinians, even now, and barely any humanitarian aid. Did you know that? Shouldn't it matter? Did you know that over 20% of Israel's population is Arab and Palestinian?

Palestinian or other Arabs, however you want to look at it. Why would Israel have so many Arabs, specifically Palestinians, in its population if it wanted to kill them all? Why would they allow so many? Jewish people have no similar footprint, by the way. Most of the 15 million or so live in Israel or here in the United States. No Arab country has been welcoming to them. There is no burgeoning Jewish population in Syria or Egypt. They were chased out of most places. That's why there was a move to give them a homeland. Now, of course, Israel has a special connection to Palestine because they share territory. There's been a lot of aggression. But why have the Arab neighbors been so slow to help their brothers? Syria, Egypt, Iran, which as we know is pulling all the strings,

right? The elephant in the room is Iran. What is going to be done about them? But all of these countries, including Iran, say no to refugees. Why? Perhaps it's because they don't want to help perceived efforts to remove Palestinians from their land. Or maybe they just don't want any more Palestinians. The Brotherhood breaks down pretty fast once it's not a simple matter of taking sides against Israel. Even now, Egypt, very slow in allowing aid through or allowing anybody to come onto their land. They won't even allow media to get through to report. Now, some there suggest that Israel is pressuring them to refrain from doing those things.

Is there proof of that? Is there proof of that? To the contrary, the prime minister of Egypt just said they would risk millions of lives to maintain their sovereignty and not be compromised by any fallout from this conflict. Whose lives are they referring to, if not Palestinian lives? And even if they're not going to allow their brothers and sisters to come to their much more resourceful lands, the least the surrounding Arab states could do is provide desperately needed humanitarian aid, right? We're talking about some very wealthy countries, right? Especially relative to Palestine.

Look at the graphics of who is helping Palestine. First on the list, America, of course. Not that this will quiet any of the calls that the country is assisting in a genocide. Top donors to the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine refugees in 2022. Germany, EU, Sweden, Norway. Where are the Arab states? Where are all the oil economies? Norway is ahead of Saudi Arabia, one of the richest places on the planet.

Look what they're offering up, 27 million. The Saudis spend more on, you know, on wealthy, on vehicles, on luxury goods than they do on helping their Arab brothers and sisters. Look at this. Number eight, number 20, 28, 37, 45, barely in the top 50. And look at the paltry amounts from these countries. You don't even see Egypt or Iran on the list. I wonder why. Even the UAE is barely represented. What's the point? It is very simple and very appealing and satisfying in our grievance culture. To make it simple, pick a side. I'm pro-Palestinian. There's no reason to not want the violence to stop, but it's not that simple. There's no reason to want less suffering, to have a better solution

going forward, but it's never proven that simple. And clearly, it can't be just for Israel in the doing. It has to be a broader solution. It has to be broader right now. Why would Israel be more responsible for the welfare of Palestinians than any of the Arab countries surrounding Palestine? How come nobody asks that? Or what Hamas did with the billions in aid that they've received in the last 20 years? Where is the proof of it in that society? Look, I get why it is so satisfying to think you're taking up for the little guy. But if your goal is not just grievance, but to get to a better place. You better open the aperture of who you see as players in this situation. Because there are a lot of people getting a free ride on your animus.

That's all directed at Israel. When they can't solve this situation in themselves unless they want to decide not to exist, wanting to stop the violence is obvious and it is virtuous. The idea that Israel is the only country that can get it done is not only doing a disservice to the reality, but is excusing the responsibility and supposed righteousness of all these other Arab countries. They are just too happy to sit by and hope that Israel is weakened by the situation. And they are getting their way. You have to ask, if you care, why are the Arab states not doing more to help the suffering that they say matters so much? So what do you think?

What squares with your understanding? What is offensive to your understanding? And what other questions do you now have? Let me know. Thank you for subscribing. Thank you for following. I appreciate you. We're going to be covering this more and in more ways than anybody else on News Nation.

So check us out, 8 and 11 o'clock, every weekday night, Eastern. Let's get after it.