The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast 228 Allison Maslan, Scale or Fail Author

Episode Date: October 18, 2018

Allison Maslan, Scale or Fail Author

Hi folks, Chris Voss here from thechrissvossshow.com thechrissvossshow.com Hey, we're coming to you with another great podcast. Of course, we bring you the most wonderful guests and we have some excellent one today. Most excellent, I should say. Anyway, we'll get into that here in a second, but be sure to refer the show to your friends,

neighbors, dogs, cats, relatives. Let them know they can now subscribe on Spotify, iTunes, Google Play, and go to youtube.com forward slash Chris Voss. Hit that bell notification button so you can get all the notifications for all the things we're doing on the Chris Voss Show as it is. And once more, the most exciting guest we can have on the Chris Voss Show today only, or any day for that matter, I suppose, Alison Maslin. And Alison Maslin is an amazing, amazing woman, and she's got some really cool talent she's

going to bring to us and talk to us about today. She is the CEO of Pinnacle Global Network, and is the number one best-selling author, she is, of Blast Off and her newest book, Scale or Fail, which is endorsed by Damon John of Shark Tank. Pretty cool that way. She's built 10 successful companies starting at age 19. Her client list has included Ben & Jerry, Supercuts, Merrill Lynch, and Charlotte Roos and Supercuts. Also, she founded the Pinnacle Global Network in 2010 to pay it forward to help business owners scale their company and reach their dreams. And she's become, with that company, the world's leader in scaling businesses. Welcome to the show, Allison.

How are you today? I'm doing awesome, Chris. Sounds good. Sounds great. So you've got your new book, and from what I understand, Scale or Fail launched today on Amazon. It did. Actually, it launched yesterday, but it hit number one today.

Nice. That's one way to do it. Yeah, number one is always good on Amazon and getting those sales and everything else. So you've written two books, The Blast Off and then the new book Scale and Fail. And I've seen your website. You've toured around. You've done a lot of great speaking, motivating, working for business C-class sort of folks. Are you consulting with them and coaching them? Yes. Well, I've been a business owner for 35 years. And so I really enjoy this business thing, have had many companies. And so about 10 years ago, I decided, you know what, it's time to help others grow their businesses.

And, and my husband's like, please don't open another company. So I was like, it's kind of this habit of mine. And, and so now I'm helping others grow their business. So I have a team of CEOs that work with me. And we have about 150 business owners, we mentor in our private mentoring and our mastermind. And yeah, I absolutely love it. That's awesome. It looks like you also have a podcast as well, Allie and You. Yeah. You know what? We started that back in 2011 and it's had many iterations, Chris. I mean, we were in a TV studio for a while and it's really kind of before podcasting got big. We were, you know, had the full-on camera crew and everything. Now you don't need all that kind of stuff.

But, yeah, I enjoy it. I'm sure you do too. The fun part, you get to meet people like you. Yeah, I love meeting people and getting to know them. It's interesting to me the different paths, the different venues, the different things people can do with and throughout their life, the different life lessons they go through, the different things that they find in this journey of life. And then, of course, people like yourself who are sharing that to help others, educating people. And it's always interesting to

me how sometimes we feel really isolated in our problems or issues or challenges that we're trying to do. And we think sometimes we're alone and yet there's a lot of other people sometimes experiencing the same thing. So in your book, Scale or Fail, you help business owners lay out a plan to scale their company. And you share different strategies to scale your company. What is Scale or Fail the book about? What is it about for you and what does it mean? Well, what I was finding in working with so many business owners is that there's a lot of support out there for the startup business owner.

You know, there's been this like entrepreneurial explosion, you know, the last few years. When I started in business, like in the dark ages, like pre Google and all that good stuff, you didn't see as many business owners, especially women. Right. And but now you have a lot of startups. So there's tends to be quite a bit of support. But once you've had a business for a while, and you've really gotten some traction. And even with people out there that have been in business 10 years, 20 years, they get to a certain level and then just get stuck. You know, they're working

in just ridiculous amount of hours. That becomes their life. And they're not taking vacations. They're not taking care of their health. And they just don't know how to get over that wall. And so I thought, wow, if they just understood how to scale the business, how to take their effort from the one to one to one to many and impact a lot more people, you know, have many more benefits of impact and also in their own personal, financial, and time, why don't I share with them how I've done it? So that's really what scale or fail is all about.

You know, it is hard to be an entrepreneur. Do you normally target entrepreneurs, or do you find business people in the C-class, work for big companies, have the same sort of issues? You know, they do have similar issues. I work with business owners. That's what we tend to work with, small business owners. And we have a couple levels in our mastermind. One is for the earlier growth stages, not startups,

but six-figure business owners. And then we're seven figures and up. And those are the ones that are ready to scale. But, you know, there's similar issues are that, you know, you're trying to grow, but you're still operating in the same mindset you did when you started, you're probably holding on too tightly, you're probably micromanaging everybody, and ordering people around and frustrated why nobody's motivated and excited, you know, and working really hard for just not as much impact as you'd like to see.

And I think that's, you know, pretty similar across the board. Yeah, it's being an entrepreneur is really hard. I mean, you feel like sometimes you have to do everything. And if you want everything done right. And a lot of people do get locked in their businesses, either doing everything or struggling with trying to do everything. We're not usually always the best people who hand off things to go, well, you do that, you do this, you do that. We're hoping that people do the same job at the same level love and care and effort that when you're a business owner you put into it and so it can be quite challenging and

frustrating especially when you're trying to scale a business a lot of people don't realize the exponential that you need to make of yourself by having employees do this or that and really make a difference so that you can still be evaluating your business, creating for your business. For me, the biggest challenge with owning companies was always the creative side, being able to be creative with my business and look outside of it and analyze it and see what's going on. Sometimes you get so wrapped up in the day to day that you don't get your head

up and go where's the future going what's the vision we've kind of looked down to the horizon to see where the ship is headed as opposed to trying to row every day in hopes that we get some place it's tough for a lot of people

to do that and master it and scale their business properly they get stuck between the quandary of do I want to give up some of my money that I'm making to pay for an assistant to make more money off the compounding of the exponentiating of my workload? And so it's a real challenge being an entrepreneur. I'm sure you found. Yeah, I think you nailed it, Chris. You definitely did. And, you know, I think a lot of times that that's the mindset is, you know, do I want to spend that money building a team and I'm working so hard?

But the truth is, is that you actually if you hire right. And, you know, so I talk about in my book how to do that and you get the right team on board. Your business is going to grow exponentially because you didn't start your business to, you know, be employed by your business. Basically, that's how most business owners operate is they're working in the business instead of on it and they're not able to really see the vision because they're just mired in stuff right and so that's really what they're talking about so but there are shifts that can happen for you to get out of that and you know once you have the right team on hand and they're taking ownership and they're running with it, it is, it is a life changer. Now, one of the questions you had for me, you mentioned five phases a business owner must go through to build team managed

company when the runs without you for significant periods of time. What sort of five phases do you advise in that? Yeah, so I can run through those really quickly. So I think that most people can resonate with this. And it's super helpful because you can see, well, where am I at and what would be next? So phase one, I call the seeker. And this is like the solopreneur. You're all excited.

You've got this passion. You're going to start this new thing. And you're just diving in. You're doing everything. Phase two, I call the pioneer. And that's where you're kind of getting your hands dirty. You're sort of forging this new path. You might have a small team like an assistant, a marketing person, maybe a bookkeeper, but you're still approving everything that goes in and out of your business. A lot of people stay right there and nothing wrong

with that. And then, but phase three, as you're really growing, I call this the ringleader because it's a total circus in phase three, because you are starting to build teams. You might have an admin team, a marketing team, a sales team, whatever product or service you deliver. You'll have a team, customer and delivery team and so forth. Like in my business, when I started, I was doing all the mentoring. Now I have a team of eight that are mentoring our clients, CEOs who've run successful companies. But in phase three, you're still trying to figure it out. You often have the wrong people in roles. You might be hiring really fast because you're out of bandwidth. So you're not really taking the time to see if someone's the right fit.

And, you know, 70% of the workforce is disengaged. So there's a good chance that some of that 70% works for you. But the good thing is in phase three is that you are starting to get clear on your vision. You start to see, hey, we've got something here and we just need to shore up our systems and get some things more in alignment. You know, but the challenge is a lot of people stay stuck here. A lot of businesses die here. Okay. And the mistakes that are happening are like what we were talking about earlier is where the business owners still very involved in all aspects. They're afraid to let go kind of control freaks, which, you know, it's their baby. They're afraid of losing a lot of money,

things like that. But if you have children, you you know if you're holding on too tight uh it doesn't work yeah jumping in to save the day they never really learn to fly so um and that transitions you into phase four if you're able to do that and i call that the co-creator and that's where you're working with your team and And instead of giving them all the answers, you're saying to them, well, what do you think? How would you handle this? And you give them an opportunity to take ownership and they start stepping up as leaders.

You start seeing those people that are going to shine on your team and really own it, take responsibility. You start recruiting higher positions in, leadership positions in as well. And they start looking at, you know, how do we increase profits? How do we create a better customer experience? And they start asking those questions. And that's where you go, oh my God, you know, like this isn't just all on my shoulders. And then, you know, you move into phase five, which I call the visionary.

And that's where you just need to step back. They've got it. You have to shut your mouth, you know, even though you can always put your two cents in. But oftentimes it just makes more of a mess. So at that level, the team really has it. So and then, you know, ultimately, you want a company that you can step away from, that you could travel for a month if you wanted to. And the business is continuing to grow and thrive. Yeah, the real key is, is how you build your teams. I was just talking to somebody today about hiring, how important hiring is.

Most people really overlook how important hiring is and the quality of it. I had a business friend who did a 10-minute interview with an employee that when they didn't hear back whether or not they got the job or not, or they wrote them an email swearing at them, which is kind of an interesting way to to respond to stuff and and I learned in years ago in business that hiring well is so important spending you know we we got to a point where we would take three to four interviews with people so that we could really get their guard down really

get to know who they were and using by the third or fourth interview we'd know we kind of have a better idea of who they were as opposed to if they were. And usually by the third or fourth interview, we'd know, we'd kind of have a better idea of who they were as opposed to who they were fronting to be. And hiring is so important. And like you say, building teams that can support the aspects of what you want to take and do. For me, when we started our companies, I was a visionary CEO, innovative. I'm very creative that way. And I had a good business partner who was more rudimentary in his brain with, you know, he didn't like being creative. He didn't like coming up with new concepts or ideas or really building stuff. What he really liked doing was just doing the same thing every day. He was a great sort of

business partner employee. And so what I could do is I could create wonderful systems, hand them off to him. He'd run them. He'd, for the most part, run them, the rudimentary parts. And we were a great team. And so when you talk about teams and what you said, building the right teams, putting people in the right places is a real key element in finding that and finding people that you can work with long-term as well it is hard where uh employees today uh seem to give less of a crap than anything before they you know they show for the paycheck and try to make sure you get the work out of them sometimes the big challenge and and getting those employees that really care about your business and your vision and want to help your company succeed long term is a big challenge to find to put those people

in the right positions. It is. It is for a lot of people, for sure. And I think, and especially with millennials, my daughter is millennial and she just started working for me, which I never thought would happen. But I think they really want to feel connected to your vision. They want to feel like they're part of something bigger. I think that's where the shift happens. It's got to be something where they really see this as a career and not a job. And something that they are really feeling connected to that vision and feeling important and appreciated. So it's, and that's, you know, where that shift has to happen

of you becoming, moving from being a boss to a leader. You know, for a boss of like, hey, this is what you got to do. These are the goals, da, da, da, da got to do these are the goals to inspiring them into action you know moving them forward because their heart feels connected to what it is that they're doing well so many people don't really understand i i they they have this the context that they're like well you become a, you own a company and you just, you know, everything works and you're rich and then it's all fine. And it's not. You really have to become a salesman to everybody who's involved with your business. You have to sell their customers.

You have to sell your employees on why they should work for you, what the vision of the company is, where it's going. You have to sell your vendors, your board of directors, people in your uh admin staff you've got to sell everybody in your world uh as to why they should do business with you and your company and uh it's definitely a challenge especially as you scale i remember the larger and larger our companies got in the multiple companies we had we i went through the same experience you did where we create a lot of companies and uh in doing it you know we constantly you constantly have to be selling people on where the vision is where are we going what's the future of the company uh even in communities now when I build communities I have to do the same thing where I have to focus on what's the vision why should you be here why should you here? What's going to be interesting in the future as opposed to maybe today? And building those sort of visions

can be challenging to constantly sell them, pitch them. Some people get eternally locked into their own head where they're like, well, I know what the vision is, but they really suck at communicating. They really suck at inspiring other people or selling it to other people to get them motivated and jumped up to go, hey, this sounds like a really good idea. And this is why I want to be on board. It's not enough anymore just to say, hey, I hired you and I pay you and you're just going to have to be excited for this job. You have to excite people, like you say, as a leader and get them motivated to really be wanting to do great things for your company. And of course that infection feeds out to your customers and everything else in their experience. Definitely. Definitely. It's like your job is to raise the vibration

of the energy around you. I love that. The vibration and the energy around you. I should probably put that on my computer or something. Your job is to be the energy of your company and the vibration. Yeah, because people get lost in their worlds too. Sometimes, you know, the bigger the companies I've had, the more, what would be a good word, the more tubers or the more trolls that I have sometimes working for the companies. I've had employees that have just undermined the views or ethics or vision of the company, sometimes creating outright lies about the company because they have some

issues with the company. Maybe they got written up and so they decided they're gonna hack away and sabotage the company and so a lot of times you're battling that you you're battling um people that are negative about the company i remember one time we had in our telemarketing unit uh like seven or eight people quit in one day and we were like what the hell just went on and we found out through the employees that this one person had just come and tubed the other group of people in the company out as to how bad our company was for whatever reason that they perceived. And they literally tubed them out so bad with negativity that they all just left at once.

And we were just like, oh my God. And so a lot of times- Yeah, I mean, for one negative person like that, and that can really, in fact, I'm telling you, I went through something like that. I had an assistant that was extremely negative and you felt like you were walking on eggshells. And it's just a really bad feeling. And then when I let her go i i didn't know

this was going on but she was really making it miserable for a lot of people and afraid to say something yeah yeah we did i remember years ago we had a uh an employee that i'd written up once for sexual harassment and he decided to go around and start telling the employees in retaliation, which I don't know why we were being retaliated against, but he decided to go tell the employees that we were somehow funding and running this company on a $50 credit fee that we would take up front for people's mortgage loans. And we were running a multimillion-dollar company,

and even with half a brain, you could sit down and do the math and realize we couldn't run a multimillion-dollar company with $50 at a time. And, of course, we were closing loans. I mean, the logic of it was most incredulous, but it was amazing how many employees he got then into their head

that somehow we were floating this company on a $50 credit reporting fee. We eventually fired him after a second sexual harassment claim. So that came to its fruition. But he spent a lot of time after that trying to steal employees from our company and other sales organizations. And like what you're talking about, being the energy and being the vision, the vibration, your company, you know, you've got to realize there's those negative voices that sometimes are in your company or from outside competitors trying to steal your employees. And you've got to offset that by giving people a vision for the future. Yeah, because the thing is, is that even if

somebody tries to steal your employees, if they're happy, you know, if they are feeling really good and taken care of, and and you know, there's a strong company culture, which is something that I teach teach in my new book, then they're not going to want to leave. Because and I've had employees leave before because someone offered them more money and then wanted to come back, you know, and it's like, sorry, we already filled the position, you know, and we feel bad, but, and I understand, you know, people want to be able to make more money and do all of that. But I think at the end of the day, people want to be in an experience that they love and that they're happy and

that people take care of them and they feel connected to the other team members. Yeah, it's very true. I mean, we found with our companies, we had to create what we called the country club rule because we found that the people who did quit and were always going for greener pastures and then wanting to come back, continually quit and then want to come back. I don't know. I don't know if it's some sort of thing in their mind or world or, or way they perform where they just,

they, they get caught on to up with the grasses are greener on the other side or something. And so invariably I had to make a rule that if you quit the company, you couldn't come back for a year. And that seemed to cut down a lot of residual turnarounds because people had to think real long and hard about what you do. But, yeah, I mean, building companies. There was something you mentioned in the intro when we first talked.

You know, you mentioned something about CEOs and entrepreneurs taking vacations. Can you expand on that a little bit? Yeah, I mean, they're really terrible at it. I mean, business owners are the worst at taking care of themselves. You know, it's like business first. And I was even, I was joking. I've been going to the same fitness trainer for 20 years and he was like really pushing me hard today. And I said, you know, you're lucky I'm here today. I'm in the middle of my book launch. And he looked at me and he was just like, what do you mean? This is for you.

You know, you've got to take care of you. And I teach this stuff all the time. And, you know, I have to remind myself that. So I think that when we work with our clients and we help them restructure their company so that they can get away because business shouldn't be totally dependent on you. And, you know, if you're feeling better, if you're feeling like you're having fun in your life, you're able to spend time with the people that you love. You know, your significant other, your children, you're going to feel more inspired. You're going to feel more creative and then you're going to actually do better in your business. Yeah, it makes a huge difference. I made the mistake for a long time of running our companies and not taking vacations. And I was very young, so I could kind of get away

with it. And I was single and didn't have kids. so I could focus all my time on my babies. And I learned after a while that I needed to take breaks, that I was burning out, that I was frying my brain. And a lot of times, taking vacations and getting away from the business was some of the best opportunities I had to really get outside my business, think about it, and kind of explore it from the outside of what I did. One of the things I would start doing, because I kind of hated taking vacations, especially if you take vacations when everyone else does, like Memorial Day and all that sort of crap. I hate the traffic. I hate the long lines and everything you have to deal with. So I learned to take my vacations offset from when normal people take their vacations. And a lot of times I just take like weekend sort of vacations where I go get away for a weekend.

One of the things I always do is I take with me like a yellow pad and a pen. And I suppose nowadays you can use mobile electronics. But there's something about a yellow pad that just really works for me. It's like an open box that says to you, put something in here. I like that, yeah. This is an entry point to be filled. And so when I come up with ideas, I like a yellow pad more so than a mobile device because a mobile device, too, it's very easy. You know, if you're sitting on your phone, you're like, I'm going to write something really thoughtful or insightful here.

And then you're like, oh, wait, I just got a notification. Somebody on Facebook or, you know, some news item. It's very easy. You get distracted. So I've always loved using yellow pads for tablets when I want to come up with creative ideas. So I can just write stuff down. And being able to go on little vacations get out of my office get out of my world get out of my

home and go somewhere sometimes I just have either girlfriend or a friend that I have with me drive so that I could sit in the seat and just kind of watch the traffic go by and watch the scenery go by and sit there with my yellow pad and think why do I do business this way why why why the hell do I mean why is why does that function that way in our business why did I build that that way and a lot of times I was the one who built it but I would go back and and kind of double check it and go why did I build that that way I mean does that make sense? And really question the different aspects of my business, why I was doing it, how I was doing it. And getting

outside of it really made me see what you would call outside the box, where you can look from the outside in. And it's really hard to do that sometimes. I mean, I remember sometimes standing in my business and just going, I wish I could get, I just, I'm just locked into everything right here. I wish I could get outside and look at this from the way an outsider looks at it and go, you know, why did they do it this way? Because asking why is a real important thing at making changes to your business and, and improving aspects in the vision, the dream of where you're going. Yeah, definitely. And that's, you know, with our, um, I run a private mentoring and mastermind for business owners and we get

together, you know, people fly out three times a year. And also we do these mastermind calls every couple of weeks. And it's exactly what you said. I think that you need to step back from, you know, what's happening on the day to day you I mean, you just really can't come up with great solutions, or new inspirations, or, you know, some new creative revenue stream, when you're pounding away at the keys, and we have a bunch of people asking you questions. You know, it's really so powerful when you step away and then you can kind of go, oh, yeah, I do really love what I do. Or you can really get excited about something or you come up with some solution to a problem that you had. And then it's so obvious. It's like, Oh my God, how did I not think of that one thing?

And it really is just about stepping back. Yeah, it really is. And, and you get so tied up in your business. He is so tied up in everything, being able to see what's out there. And it gives you aspects to like what you probably write about in your book,

scaling, being able to look at how you can grow your business where you're failing and uh where you can take things to the new level and we get locked in so much with the day-to-day oh i've got to show up today and i've got to do you know all the tax stuff and i got to show up today and do the account stuff and i gotta i gotta get this guy you know and i gotta find out what's going on with this guy i gotta fire this guy one of the biggest things i used to always dread was firing people i never i never ever really like firing people and unless even when they really deserved it whether it was a bezelman or some sort of issue

that they really worked hard to to get fired for um i never really liked the experience of it um and it's not the most pleasant sort of experience for, I don't think for anyone, but it's seemingly necessary. But you get caught up in all this day-to-day stuff. And sometimes you just, you think you're accomplishing stuff every day, but your business really isn't growing. And what a lot of entrepreneurs and people in business forget is that if there, you know, it's the old rule that i always play into everything i do if you're not growing you're dying if a business isn't growing it's failing because there's an attrition that comes with your business growing and new clients new business coming but there's also

attrition loss where you have you know clients that you lose um you know, recently I had a client that I've had for eight years move on to another firm. And they don't stay forever. I mean, eight years is great, but you know, sometimes people move on, they want to try something different. And so you, you know, you may have a client base, but over time that client base is going to attrition off and you're going to lose some of those people. You've got to make sure you're always going out and getting more people. You've got to grow that business because if you're not growing, you're dying. It's kind of like,

you know, I mean, I don't know what to put in, but you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Well, that's hence the name scale or fail. Scale or fail.

There you go. I just, I just set you up on that. That was awesome. I couldn't help myself. Scale or fail. If your business isn't growing, it's dying. And, yeah, it's so amazing how many people struggle with it, how many small business owners struggle with it.

They don't know how to get out of their box. They don't know how to get out of their box. They don't know how to spin everything. I've dealt with times in my business where some of the most important aspects, I want to manage or micromanage or control. And there's just other people that are much better than I am. And turning over that control really exponents your earnings because you sit there and go, well, if I have to pay a person to do this, I lose a few grand out of my income. But then you're like, hold on. They go make a whole lot more money and free up my time to go make even more money. And then they make me money.

And it just exponents. And being able to get other people to spin your plates is really helpful in a business. But sometimes it's hard to let go. You're like, geez, what if they do this badly? I mean, I've had, we've, I've had divisions or departments we've given off to managers and they've almost run them into the ground and we've had to step in and save them. Um, it can happen. And so there's, there's a challenge and risk there. And unless you risk it, unless you take the chance to grow your business,

you're, you're gonna, you know, going to, like you say, scale or fail. Yeah, you got to take the leap. And I am. So besides running businesses, I'm also a trapeze artist. And I've been doing that for 20 years. So I don't know if you can see this, but you see the trapeze bars on the cover of the book. So there's a lot of metaphors here. And, you know, in trapeze, you have to be willing to let go of the bar.

Yeah. And take the leap. And it's the same in business. We're afraid to let go because we're afraid things are going to fall apart. But if you don't let go, then you're going to choke the growth of your business. Yeah. So. Yeah, there's only so much one person can do and scale successfully.

I mean, there's just only so much you there, there comes a point where you have to hire people, expinate yourself and, and grow your business in that way. Because if you don't, you know, it's just going to be you.

And there are times in, in owning business. I'm sure you've had this experience too, where having a team that can take care of the business, if you fall sick, if you're having a bad time, there are times in my life where I've had different issues with relationship breakups or other things where I had to take a week off. And if you're running your business all by your little lonesome or one or two employees it's really hard to do that to be able to take off and and take some time off for some personal

me time um and and be able to get that break and you need that from a healthy perspective to uh just uh feel better and be able to reset your brain definitely most definitely so definitely. So you launched the book. It's gone to number one. Hopefully it's going to do well on the New York Times bestseller. What's the future for you going out for the next few months? I guess you're going to be out promoting the book, talking to people. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, there's a, I feel like this has been like a two year sort of pregnancy with this book. And I'm like, finally, you know, glad to have this baby out in the world. And so that was really great to get that to happen.

And so now, yes, we'll be out promoting the book. I just heard today that I'm going to go on MSNBC. So I'll be heading to New York. So that's exciting. And then, you know, we run our company here, we get back to what we're doing. And, but with the book, obviously, we get the message out on, you know, how to construct your business this way, so that you can really multiply your impact to a lot more people. And I'm running, you know, I run events. I've got our biggest event that we lead all year is coming up in January called Level Up Live for business owners to take their business to the next level. That's awesome. Awesome. So Allison, give us some words we can go take and get ahold of the books from you and also your websites and all that good stuff.

Yeah, well, we actually got a special link for you, for your listeners, Chris, because there's some special gifts since we're launching the book that they can get. And if they go to scale or fail.com forward slash boss book. So scale or fail.com forward slash boss book. And then they can order the book from whatever bookseller that they choose and get all kinds of great prizes. If people want to learn more about me, they go to Allison Maslin dot com and can learn a little bit more about me, they go to alisonmaslin.com and can learn a little bit more about me. Our podcast is there and our business coaching as well. Sounds good. Thanks for being on today, Allison. We certainly appreciate you spending some time with us. Everyone go to amazon.com or some of the websites. I suppose technically we should

have them going to that website with your website and the forward slash Voss book. But be sure to check out her book, Learn How to Scale Your Business, Scale or Fail. I mean, it really is important. If you're not growing, you're dying. And her other books and check out all the different things she's doing. She speaks and everything else on her website. So I highly encourage you guys to check it out. Anyway, thanks for tuning in, everyone. We certainly appreciate you. Be sure to refer your friends, neighbors, relatives, dogs, cats,

everyone to listen to The Chris Voss Show. Then go to Spotify, iTunes, Google Play, YouTube.com forward slash Chris Voss, and hit that bell notification so you get all the notifications for all the podcast updates we do. Thanks to Allison for coming by the show. Be sure to check out her book and we'll see you guys next time.

Bye.