The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast 233 Mark S. A. Smith, Author

Episode Date: November 2, 2018

Mark S. A. Smith, Author

Hi folks, Chris Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com thechrisvossshow.com Come here with another great podcast. Certainly appreciate you guys tuning in. Be sure to refer the show to your friends, neighbors, relatives. Go to youtube.com of course that's Chris Voss. Hit that bell notification button. Go to iTunes, Google Play.

You can tell folks they can subscribe there as well as the Spotify, where you can listen to the Lawrence Welk Show, the Chris Wallace Podcast, and then go listen to, I don't know, Dolly Parton, because why not? Anyway, thanks for tuning in. We certainly appreciate all of you, and as always, we have the best

and most interesting guests. I showed up or appeared on this gentleman's podcast a couple weeks ago, and we have him on. He's written over 14 books. Damn, that's a lot of writing. His name is Mark S.A. Smith. You've probably seen him on the interwebs or speaking at different events and things of that nature.

Welcome to the show, Mark. How are you today? Thank you, Chris. I'm delighted to be here. Aren't we all? Let's face it. It was kind of funny. To give those of you who weren't in the pre-show, we were having a lot of fun, me and Mark,

and I think we did the better part of the show after that. We're going to have to see how this turns out. I expect for it to be great. We just got warmed up. The good stuff is you have to flow out. We got just warmed up. That's what it was. We were warm enough.

The pre-show is the warm up. But that's what I tell my girlfriend and she's not happy. So anyway, 14 books. You've got some behind you I think. I do. Let's get some plugs in on those books.

What it means is that I have no life. Well, you are married. I know that. So that's a given. But let's get some plugs. Let's get some websites. Let's get some stuff. It's actually pretty fun. I was fortunate enough to write some books

with Jake Conrad Levinson, Mr. Gorilla Marketing. First, we'll start off with trade show selling. Now, the interesting thing about trade shows is that you essentially run a 15-second funnel. 15-second funnel? Right, Because you have a second and a half as people walk by your exhibit to grab their attention. And you've got about three seconds to ask them a question to see if they're somebody you want to talk with. And then you've got about 10 seconds, 11 seconds to figure out if they're going to hand you their business information so you can follow up with them afterwards. So really it's all about how do you run

a fast funnel when you're trying to do business. I thought a fast funnel at a trade show was when I meet those hot booth babes and I ask to take my picture with them. Is that a different thing? Yeah, it's more of a feel than a funnel. That's a feel funnel?

That's a feel funnel. That would explain why the judge says I can't do that anymore. I'm not allowed at a certain event. I'm not allowed at CES anymore. Oh, no, I know you're going to be there. They just tie your hands before you go in there.

Well, yeah, well, they did after. There was handcuffs involved, so there was that. Well, you know, the other aspect of CES is with the virtual reality, the augmented reality, you can do anything you want as long as you've got the glasses on. Pretty much. Pretty much. I mean, that's how the adult industry, I forget what it's called now

so I can't pull this joke, conference this year. Was it the adult industry conference, not the three under the bus? Oh, yeah. Well, I've never attended although i have seen the talent pass through the hotel lobbies yeah and we all um welcome to vegas it should be noted that we both live in vegas so i'm not sure why the hell we aren't doing this together live separated by 15 minutes of drive time that's that's about the ultimate white male laziness in our part um so we we just couldn't commit that much to the show when it came down to it yeah that just means

i have to break down bring my microphones and all that kind of stuff that's true another time maybe we'll do something from the ceo we should show a combined show uh i'm supposed to get down to SEMA. I have a press badge for SEMA. Yeah. And I'm doing this special thing called being fucking lazy right now. And every day I'm like, I should get up and go to SEMA. And then I'm like, but then I'd have to, like, walk around and, like, dress up. Talk to people. Talk to people. Let me tell our listener what SEMA means and why it. Talk to people. Talk to people.

Let me tell our listener what SEMA means and why it's an important show. At this point, they're thinking, SEMA, that must be another adult show, the SEMA show. It's a collection, yes. Yeah, what does SEMA stand for? Something like

Car Engineering Association of America. It's a car show. It's the biggest car show. It runs for 10 days and takes over the entire city. Yeah, and there's a lot of booth babes. In fact, I just remember. They fly them in.

Yeah, yeah. In fact, note to self, go to SEMA today. So, Mark, give us a website. People can look you up and stuff. And, of course, they can probably get your books on Amazon, I'm sure, right? Absolutely. They sure can. Actually, Amazon, just Mark S.A. Smith, you can find my books that I have currently for sale up there.

And I just realized that this book I handed you has my daughter's name written on it. She was like three years old. That's how old this is. Yeah, so you can go to Amazon. You can go to Bijaco.com where you can find lots of information about me or just connect with me on LinkedIn. But now, we shouldn't be doing the plug stuff first. We should be talking about

cool shit so people know why they want to connect with me. Well, we always do the plugs at the beginning so people can look you up because God knows they're not looking at my face in the podcast. So I give them something to distract them. It's a distraction technique and

yeah, it's my version of a caravan. You're not going to believe this, Chris. I just looked up SEMA just like the DJs do on, you know, S-E-M-A and it's the specialty equipment menu market association specialty equipment market association so it's fundamentally aftermarket stuff for cars yep yeah it's for people who want to build to want to take their cars and build cool stuff on them or weird stuff on them yeah that's it that are just people want to go look at booth build cool stuff on them or weird stuff on them. Yeah, that's it. That are just

people want to go look at booth babes. I got to remember to go there now. Clearly you have booth babe on the mind now. You do. You have to go get some pickups and some swag from the booth babe. A couple other books here. We'll just look through these things. We have Gorilla Teleselling.

How do you create a relationship when you can't be there in person? Then guerrilla negotiating, which is an interesting book in that this is the antidote to all the dirty tricks that buyers play on us. So most negotiating books are how do you get a better deal? This is how do you keep

more margin? How do you resist that, hey, I can get it cheaper somewhere else kind of stuff. We can go down that rabbit hole if you want to do that. That's awesome. A couple of other books. Yeah. So you guys wrote a lot of books regarding the guerrilla marketing sort of tactics,

the guerrilla marketing sort of approaches. Do you have one for guerrilla dating? That's the one I need. You know, there is one out there. I didn't write it, but there is a guer a gorilla dating book that has Jay's name on it, written by another guy who's probably single still. Now, of course, I'm not – make sure those of you who are listening in the audience are not seeing this visually. I'm not referring to gorilla.

I'm referring to gorilla. That's right, gorilla. As in the freedom fighter. Gorilla, yeah. We're not advocating bestiality in any. You didn't say perform on the show. Even though I am bringing up dating me. So there's that. A couple of geek books that I did.

Linux in the Boardroom. This thing was written for a long time ago for executives who thought they might want to bring Linux into their world so they don't have to pay Microsoft their egregious taxes. Another follow-up book, Security in the Boardroom. And this is an early book on cybersecurity. Interestingly, I'm going to be turning this into a continuing education course for CPAs. Wow. Weird. Then the latest book, this one's for the IT world, called From MSP to BSP.

MSP is Managed Services Provider to BSP Business Services Provider. I had a pivot from Profit from IT. Now, this book is going to be rewritten as a generic book. This is all about how do you sell complex, expensive stuff. I know that our listeners are typically geeks and freaks and people who build really cool

stuff, and if you just take that part off of it, this teaches you how to sell that exotic technology that we all know and love. MSP and what? Give me the book title again. Sure. It's from MSP

to BSP. I think I got an inoculation for that. You probably did. It's a sexually transmitting disease, isn't it? Well, that would be STD. And you know, with this TSA making people take their shoes off, now there's socially transmitted diseases.

Yeah, it's a new level with STD. When we travel to the airport, they're like, you have to take your shoes off. And I'm like, oh man, I didn't wear socks. This is going to be nasty. Walking around the airport with everyone's feet like that. I've written a lot of books. I mean, this is pretty prolific,

man. And a bunch of other books, too, that my name's on the inside versus the outside. So, you know, ghostwriting type of stuff. Is that people writing about you? No, no, no. I write for other people. Those are actually extremely profitable books. They pay in advance, so I don't have to worry about book sales.

That's pretty awesome. I like that. Kind of a cool way of doing it. Bottom line is it's easy for me to crank out a lot of words, but that's not why we're here today. What shall we talk about that our listener is going to want to go, wow, I'm so glad I tuned in and not just listen to two old white guys babble.

That's pretty much what the name of this podcast is. Two old white guys babble. That's pretty much what the name of this podcast is. Two old white middle-aged guys babble whose lives are completely over. Yeah, pathetic. Our job is to make our listeners feel less pathetic. Yeah, yeah, because God knows it should be just one guy talking too. Cranky Old Men. That's probably the name of the upcoming podcast. We have TuneIn after your

Metamucil kicks in. We're sponsored. We can probably get some good sponsors for that because there's a lot of people now. That middle-aged old market, there's a lot of stuff going on there I mean that's where everyone's at right now with those yeah just a bunch of baby boomers or everything has stopped working yeah they're willing to buy stuff that promises to make it work

again although it doesn't we can get Metamucil signed up depends diapers yeah insure Viagra you know I actually could useure Viagra I actually could use a Viagra sponsor Come to think of it I am 50 now So it's getting a little hard To chase those 20 year old girls around the room Those good

Babes It's getting a little hard To chase around the room So let's talk about Let's pick one of your books and talk about it. How about that? Well, let's talk about one of the concepts in this latest book is the concept of high consideration sales versus low consideration sales. If we want to get tactical for just a moment. So here's the problem that we face today virtually everything that we sell

requires multiple people to say yes before we can get the deal and in the world of consumers rarely is there just one person unless they're single the person who has to say yes there usually are multiple people involved spouse perhaps children are involved in the decision. Sounds like my dating life. Yep. Well, that's, that's what it is.

No, here's the deal. You ask the person that you're with, where do you want to have dinner? And they say, I don't know. Where do you want to go to dinner? And sounds like my dating life.

So, you know, you name a restaurant and they go, no, I don't want that. Well then why did you ask me where I wanted to eat? And so I don't care. We come up with list after list after list of restaurants that I don't care wants to go to.

And we usually settle on Cheesecake Factory because of its worn piece-sized menu can satisfy everybody. Although I think the food sucks. I think it sucks too. But at least you go to the same place and the drinks don't suck. That's the good news. Yeah, that's usually the main thing. You're just like, I'm so sick of negotiating where we're going to go

eat. And I like here, and I like there, and I like here. What the fuck do you like? I don't know. That's right. So there's this challenge that we face where people have a different yes set to agree. It's a yes set. What are you going to say yes to?

That's the yes set. And, you know, that yes set is usually not just one thing. It's a number of things. And we have to figure out what those things are that cause them to say yes. Like frequently with my wife you know i she says what do you want for dinner i said sushi she said i had it yesterday well i didn't yeah it's just i thought this was about what i want well and and it's no big deal it's just that her yes set was not that today huh and so when we sell things to people, we have to figure out what their yes set is so that we can then address our product to their yes set.

So what I've gone to then is, you know, so what type of flavors are you looking for? You want sweet? You want salty? You want savory? You want vegetables? You want fresh? You want pickles? What's that kind of flavor profile that you're kind of going

for and then then based on that I can make a recommendation I think I can live with and then the interesting things these days is that we've walked this line between what we want and what we will tolerate hmm that sounds like your dating life yet again. It does sound like my dating life. Sounds like some of the women at my age are older than me to approach me on Bumble. Bumble. What we want and what we can't get drunk enough to put up with.

What we can tolerate. It's an interesting concept. We don't have to be perfect. We just have to be tolerable. Just have to be tolerable. Just have to be tolerable. You know, what's interesting too about this concept is there's also a reverse factor of that. I have this place that I go to

that they make these great burgers on the corner. And I go there a lot, clearly. You can just look at me and tell that information. Yeah, you are the Burger King. Huh? You are the Burger King. Oh, yeah, something like that. Tell that to my dietician.

Why, do you date her too? Every time I go there, whoever's working there always asks me the same thing. And they go, what do you want on your burger? And I go, I want everything except for the lettuce, and I want the grilled onions and not the raw onions because it's kind of stupid to get the grill onions with the wrong doesn't make any sense right so I but I go I want everything but the lettuce because I'm against lettuce and it's it's not it's not racial it's just political um so uh it said no lettuce and i want grilled onions not to think that's not that hard to do well the problem is they have on their

menu screen like 20 things they have to hit i don't maybe they do this because they're fucking lazy or something but but they'll like they'll be like so you want everything i'm like yes everything except for the lettuce and they're like you want the pickles yeah i think that's included in everything buddy do you want the ketchup yeah yeah yeah i want to get i want i want they do this every time they argue with me about the thing what is that called it's like reverse something i i think what it's called is is people that have a menu think if it's not on the menu they can't do it well it's on the menu it's just it's like they don't trust me to know that I want everything yeah yeah I tell I want I want I want everything including the jalapenos and I'll just take off what I don't want.

Yeah. That's probably what you should do. But it's just the concept of all. They're just like, you want everything? Yeah. I don't know what that is. I don't know whether that's a projection of like, well, I wouldn't eat that, or I wouldn't have it that way. Well, it's entirely possible it's a projection.

I think you're right. Yeah. So maybe it's the reverse of what you're talking about, where you ask someone, what do you want? They're like, I don't know. And then you go, well, do you want the pickles? And they're right. Yeah. So maybe it's the reverse of what you're talking about, where you ask someone, what do you want? They're like, I don't know. And then you go, well, do you want the pickles? And they're like, no. And you're like, well, you know, make up your mind. I don't know.

No, it could be. We'll get philosophical in just a moment. We're going to go deep. Better tie on two by four to your backside so we can get back out. The reality is that more people make decisions by doors closing than doors opening. Sounds like my dating life. Well, there it is.

So most people make their by doors closing. So is it because they need to eliminate the options so they have fewer options because we had option overload. That's it. They got option overload. Yeah, that's exactly right. And frequently what happens is people who are selling technology will present you with a brochure that is just so rich and deep in all the speeds and feeds and bits and bytes and flashing lights and TVs and trays and cables and arrays. The problem is that a customer confused cannot choose. And so

we're way, way, way better off not giving them stuff and starting asking them questions about, do you like pickles? No. Okay, then I'm not going to show you my pickles. Yeah. I love it. This is an entire set up to discuss Chris's dating life.

Well, so far, it's still funny. I guess the show will end when we stop being funny about Chris's dating life. But here's the challenge. A lot of people, they show up with too much information. It's like you going to the doctor and the doctor says, Hey, Chris, check this out.

He lands on the counter a book that's four inches thick he says chris this is the physician's desk reference every drug that i am licensed to prescribe is listed in this book let's see what do you want to take home today that sounds like my kind of doctor actually yeah it actually sounds like my dating life let's see, what do you want to take home today? That sounds like my kind of doctor, actually. Yeah. It actually sounds like my dating life. Well, that doesn't help solve your problem.

It doesn't, but I don't know. You know, I did learn this a long time ago that on sales, that you can overload the customer with too many options. Too fast. And it's better to give them an either or sort of option or maybe two or three options as opposed to uh 50 million options and exactly i i found that sometimes i've gotten really overly creative because a lot of times when i do uh proposals i'll do all the cart proposals i'll be like well here's a proposal where you can have this, or you can,

you know, have some more options up at here. And then there's more value in it. And I try and create at least two or three of those, but sometimes I've been overly creative at like, let's make a la carte options. And you make so many and the client's just like, I got back to you. And then you email them later and you're like, did you get a chance to make a decision? They're like, I'm still trying to read your email, man. And you're like, look, just give me some money. I'll figure it out for you, and we'll be okay. And they're like, I don't know, whatever.

So buyers do like a simplistic thing. They do. And if you think back to the old Sears and Roebuck methodology, which worked for decades until they dropped the ball, they had good, better, and best. They had three types of flavors for every product that they brought to market. And they sold primarily better and best. And good was just there to set up better and best as what's the difference.

Yeah. And you're like, well, I don't want the low part. I don't want good. Good is not good enough. No, I at least want good, but, geez, if I'm going to pay for good, then I might as well get best. Right. Yeah.

That's exactly right. It's a strategy, and it still works that way. In fact, if you take a look at most online sellers, they have a three-product offer. So is three the optimal choice then? It certainly seemed to be so because you got the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. If we go to the highest power, three is

the optimal choice. I guess so. It ends up that three. I didn't realize that was the baseline that we were drawing from. We're the top one. We're on everything. If we're going to get philosophical once in a while on the Chris Voss show.

Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. Sounds like the dating life on Thrive. Three choices. So the answer is that actually three is good. Three is a good strategy because people can handle it. dating life choices for Chris. Three. Three is a good strategy because people can handle it. I dated twins.

I never dated triplets. So the jury's still out on that one. All right. Well, maybe put that on your bucket list. It is actually on my bucket list. But I digress. And as you usually do, which is one of the reasons why we listen.

Yeah. I mean, I, I, I'm not going to go into the choosing stories on that. But so anyway, so what's the, what's the best approach in using what you're talking about?

And do you have advice on how I can negotiate with a girlfriend or wife better when they say, where do you want to go out to eat? Is it, is it better to question them and go, well, what do you feel like eating? Do you feel like pickles? That's it. Not tonight, honey. I have a headache.

Do you feel like going out for drinks? Yes. Yeah. Usually, using the way it worked with my girlfriends, I would be like, where do you want to eat tonight? I don't know. You're like, well, do you want to go to the taco place? No. Do you want to go to McDonald's? No. Do you want to go to Taco Bell? No. Do you want to go to the expensive oyster bar?

Yes. Yes. Okay. Let me get some pain. I want you to take me to some place that's expensive. We went to the airport. Yeah. Go to the airport. Yeah, the airport. And then you can eat McDonald's burgers for $20 a pop. That's exactly right.

That's where the source of the original $20 burger was. Who knows anybody who does that? Like they show up at TSA and they're like, I'm not really here to fly, but I just really like to pay for expensive food here. I just eat at the airport. That's it. Well, certainly in Denver that's the case because in Terminal B is Elway's Steakhouse. Oh, yeah.

Which is actually one of the best places to get food on the planet. It's in the airport. And Elway's also has places outside that. But it's fantastic food. And they have intelligent waitstaff, which is unheard of in most airports. What do they do? Do EMC squared for you? They can.

They can. Like that? I've never been to another airport where I can get a barrel-aged Manhattan. A barrel-aged Manhattan? Barrel-aged Manhattan. It's called Elway's Manhattan. I stop in there. I even have a 15 minute connect between flights, just

because it's so damn good. But no, they're just intelligent. They know how to, when you say, I want everything except for lettuce, they know what that means. Are you saying that other waiters at other restaurants are dumb? Low cognitive capacity is the way that I like to express that.

And the reason why is because dumb people go, yeah, what he said. I don't know what that is. Like every time I go there, they have to argue with me. Yeah. Is it because I'm overloading them with options?

Is that what it is? Maybe it is. Put ketchup and mustard on it. I need to give them two choices? Is that how it works? Maybe. Or it just may be that they just like to mess with you. So this is really my fault.

Here comes Chris, man. We're going to mess with him today. You know what? I think they're looking at me going, seriously, do you really need everything? I mean, do you see yourself in the mirror? You eat everything. Normally you want all. Holy crap. Like, cut back.

We're trying to give you a hint here, buddy. Like, you know, maybe cut the pickles off or something, or the meat. Jesus Christ, have you weighed yourself lately? Well, if you're going to leave any one thing off the burger, probably the mayonnaise would be the choice. Or perhaps the cheese.

I'm not even sure if they put mayonnaise. I know they put cheese on there. Maybe that's what they're doing. Maybe they're judging me. And they're just like, you really want everything? Like, clearly you've had everything. You really need more? Seriously.

Get a mirror. Scale the whole, buddy. Yeah. And you're asking them to take off the things that have the fewest number of calories. I think what it is is they're just fucking lazy. Yeah, well, there is that. They're millennials, and I'm asking the press. I think what it is is they don't have, like, an all button on the thing.

Because they literally do this. I'm not kidding you. They have one of those sales machines that are kind of the new ones. You know, it's got, like, a little iPad touch system on it it and they literally spin it around to me and they go you you want all this and there's like little buttons that they have to hit on each one yeah and i think what it is they're just fucking lazy they're just like i'm gonna have to every one of these buttons because he wants all and like they'll even be like you want the peppers yeah i want it all man and maybe the thing to do is say spin that machine my way and let me order my burger. That's what I should do.

No tip for you. And then you know what's funny? Is they always ask for a tip. They spin the thing around and they go, do you want a tip? And I'm like, what? You're not going to. I hate this new age of people that think they get a tip for doing what they're supposed to. Like, I understand, and it's appropriate that I get a tip if you serve me at my table.

You bring them my food. You refill my beverages. You did your J-O-B. Yeah, yeah. You are worthy of a tip at that point, especially if you put up with me. Because I drink a lot, and clearly I ate a lot um but but but this weight jokes and dating Chris jokes today that's pretty much where we're at and Mark Smith so I understand you need tip but this bullshit that because you sold me a

five dollar coffee at Starbucks like Starbucks has got this annoying thing on their app that they came out with where it hounds you for like the rest of the day on your phone saying, did you want to leave a tip? You have six hours to leave a tip. Whoa, no way. You haven't seen that? Doing your J-O-B?

Yeah. You know, tips. You're selling me a goddamn $5 fucking coffee. I think you've got plenty of margin there to pay for your people. You didn't even brew this shit. You just squirt it out of a squirter thing. I know how this is. It's just syrup.

It's not like they're like... Yeah, you're pumping syrup into a glass. Pumping syrup, adding some water. Here's your stupid latte, motherfucker. So here's a bit of arcane knowledge for you. TIPS stands for to ensure prompt service.

Really? Really. I saw this video online one time that it's actually based on racism. It could be. Yeah. Yeah, I saw that as well. Don't know for sure, but the idea was that... It seems't know if it's true. It seems like something Americans would do, though.

It goes back to the railway days. Yeah. And people of color serving food on railways who were seriously underpaid. It was a way to improve the... to reduce the perceived laziness. And that was to ensure prompt service. That was the concept. Yeah.

So, but I'm not so sure it's racist. I think it was actually people taking care of people. Yeah, I would think so. I mean, I mean, to me, I've always equated it to, to if someone's going to do a little bit extra for you, like certainly there's you know I've had those waitresses or waiters where where they go take a smoke break for half an hour in the back and you're like parched dry you're like seeing a table joking on the chicken yes right the Sahara has moved into your mouth after you've downed the bean dip.

And you're just like, hey, man, can I get some water to wash this down? And then, of course, you have the really great waitresses that are super attentive, almost annoyingly so. I always get those ones when I go to some of the places for breakfast where you get your coffee mixed just how you want it. You get that perfect mixture of cream and sugar and all the ingredients. You get that perfect flavor. And you're like,

about three quarters of the way through that thing, just a little bit's gone. They come by and they go, you want some coffee? Ah, fuck, give me a formula. Right. And so I'm going to jam my hand in there and say, fuck, give me a formula. Right. And so I'm going to jam my hand in there. Hey, stay away from my perfectly mixed coffee, you evil person. In that case, you have to put an anti-roofy device on your coffee to keep them from putting in the bad stuff.

I don't know. For me, roofies and coffee, that's just what we call Wednesdays around here. That will do for sure. I'm not sure why I'm roofing myself, but it is Vegas after all. There's a lot of people that count on being roofied here.

At least that's what they say to their spouse when they go home. My girlfriends used to do that. I'd be like, tonight, honey? And they're like, I'm roofied. And you're like, tonight, honey? And they're like, I'm Ruffy. And you're like, well, okay. What a wide-ranging conversation we've had. Zombie sex again tonight.

Right. It's kind of like, what's that drug they take for sleeping? What, Ambien? Yeah, the Ambien. See, I've read the PBR. Is that a PBR? Yeah, the Ambien. See, I've read the PDR. Is that a PDR? The Physician's Desk Reference. It's a callback to earlier in the show.

I've actually read that. The weirdest thing that I read in the Physician's Desk Reference was there was a drug at one time called Cobroxan, and it was designed for cancer patients to provide them extreme pain relief, and it was based on Cobra venom. Cobra venom? Cobra venom. That's one way to go, I guess.

And the way that they dosed it was called in rat units. And a rat unit is how much it would take to kill a rat. I am not kidding you. And they gave this to people? They would give this to terminal cancer patients. Of course, this was back in the 70s when I was a kid and I had free time on my hand and I read shit like the physician's desk reference. I know, I'm a weird guy. Lots of weird stuff.

Maybe you're right. Maybe so. Weird shit that I've learned that nobody cares about but Ambien is the stuff that puts people to sleep and made Roseanne tweet about Valerie Jarrett and of course her show is gone and

apparently the Connors show is off the air as well but will be soon. Oh really? It is the lowest ranked show for its time slot. Well, I mean, you really did tune in to see Roseanne because she is the car crash. Oh, she is. When I was growing up in Colorado Springs, she lived in Fountain, which is the next city over.

And she'd do stand-up at the local clubs. And she was hilarious. Yeah. This was before she went to L. to LA and got a facelift. She was just this big fat dumpy broad. What the hell did it look like before? Yeah, you don't want to know. My God, I don't want to know now.

My favorite line of hers back from those days is, I know what guys want and I give it to them too. Clean underwear and a big bowl of chili. Well, that is true. There's your perfect woman. I had a big bowl of chili the Well, that is true. So there's your perfect woman. I had a big bowl of chili the other day at the local Timbers here.

And they make some really good chili. And you know what's really good? My waitress is, speaking of great waitresses, she said to me, she says, do you want some sour cream with that? And I'm like, I've never had sour cream with chili. I will have that. Oh, yeah.

Sour cream, jalapenos, chopped fresh onion, and a nice healthy dosage of pepper jack. You realize most people going through the show are like, what the fuck is going on and what this is about? Yeah, but they're just using it for background noise anyway. Hoping they can extract a

nugget or two from the show. They're probably popping the ambience going, this is what I doze off to. That is popping my eyes on the Chris from the show. You're probably popping the ambience going, this is what I doze off to. That is probably my only fun. The Chris Voss show. I put people to sleep. I don't think that's the case. You bring people new interesting ideas wrapped in jovial banter.

Jovial banter? Yeah, we charge extra for that. So, getting back to the choice thing, how can we be better at selling stuff and giving better choices, I guess? Well, the way you have to do that is with an assessment. You have to ask people questions. And really, you sell way more if you ask questions. But they have to be smart questions.

They can't be stupid, invasive, dumb questions like, are you sure you want everything? Are you sure you want everything? That's not a good, smart question. Are you sure you want everything? That's not a good, smart question. It has to do with preferences. That's what we're looking for, is preferences, and understanding that everybody that you're going to be speaking to has different preferences, and it's a moving target. Just what somebody

preferred last time you spoke to them isn't necessarily something they prefer this time. And preferences are always tied to identity, which is an interesting concept. how people view themselves and so you know you're the kind of guy who likes to make jokes about the people that he dates so therefore you're gonna be dating jokes actually they make jokes about me but usually it's over dinner and see there it is that's your identity you. You generated this really interesting identity for yourself,

so you make choices around that identity. You didn't know this would turn into a therapy session, did you? Mostly. The whole reason for this podcast is fucking therapy. Oh, I'm doing free therapy for this? It doesn't help me at all. Maybe it helps our listener, though. Oh, my God, that explains exactly why I keep dating morons yeah that's pretty much why i'm here i'm here to expose my life so the

people can analyze me that's pretty much my audience tunes in there like let's let's see what this fucktard's up to this today man that's exactly right just he has to be less pathetic we haven't seen him on the news he hasn't loaded up a rifle in the bell tower and he's taking pot shots at uh millennials from the bell tower well the reason why you know is because if you do that your show's done well that's true too i might do the show while i'm taking pot shots at millennials you lazy bastards i won't really kill them because i'm not that kind of person but i'll i might uh i might try and shoot their phone out of their hands so i can wound their instagram cruising or something i don't know that's an interesting strategy i made

a joke today about how uh because we were talking on facebook about how 30 percent of of lazy millennials will uh well 30 of them will show up to vote the other 60 are just lazy um and we're talking about uh i guess snapchat last week was bragging about how they signed up a whole mess of people to homeless kids to uh register to vote and i'm like you know if snapchat and instagram really want to help people vote millennials vote just shut that down for a day. Just turn off the app, put a screen, get off your lazy ass, millennial,

and go fucking vote. Well, I think there it is. No internet for you until you vote. Exactly. That's how you get people to vote. You want your internet back? Yep. Just make a choice. We don't care what it is. Just make a choice. Here's another good idea to get more people to vote. Just make a choice We don't care what it is Just make a choice So that you can't complain Put the voting polling stations

In fucking Starbucks Oh there you go It's a brilliant idea I think ultimately we're going to be voting From our device I would like to see that Assuming we're going to be voting Any more after this Yeah well I think we'll see that, assuming we're going to be voting anymore after this.

Yeah, well, I think we probably will be. I expect for that not to change. I would hope not. Getting back to the concept here of choices, and really it's that personal identity, and I took a riff that took us off that, so I'm going to reel us back in. People make choices that support their identity, and that identity changes over time. That's the reason

why we have to keep asking questions and smart questions and questions fall into three fundamental categories. And so category one is objective. What do you want to achieve? So if you're going out to dinner with your

alternative loved one there, you know, the question is, yeah, you know, it just depends what you're doing. Do you, are you looking for hunger suppression or are you looking for an experience? Hunger suppression will go for fast food.

Experience will pick something that provides that kind of a level of experience. Huh. And fundamentally, that's what it is, right? Do you want to go out and celebrate or do you just want to get some food in your stomach so you can move on to go home and, you know, Netflix and chill? So does it come down to what I want to identify as the mood I'm currently in? That's part of it.

It's objective. What do you want to accomplish? What's the outcome that you seek? Because, I mean, I know that people do buy an identity. And when they look at things, when they make decisions about cars or watches or just about whatever they do, when they pick wives and husbands,

they're like, how is this? Mostly wives when they pick. How well does this? That's the concept of a trophy husband. Or a trophy or trophy husband. Versus somebody who is either a provider or a mom or a dad or

whatever they're looking for in an outcome. That's usually why second spouses or third spouses tend to be more trophy style or functional versus dysfunctional. I mean, that's I'm on my seventh marriage.

I'm still trying to find a trophy wife. My last wife was like, I think I was a trophy because she's like, I get this idiot to marry me. I'm not sure what that means. But, no, it's interesting to me. I never really thought about identity drilling down to that small of a level. But I guess everything we do when we buy and we make decisions is based upon our identity and how it reflects on us. That's exactly right.

And that's the reason why testimonials become really important. Reviews become so important in our decision-making process. Because what we do is we read the review and see, is this something that supports my identity? Are these people that are reviewing this? Are these people that are reviewing this? Are these people that are buying this in my identity pool? Because all of us want to think that we're smart enough to make good choices. And by reading reviews and seeing the ratings of things, we get to then decide whether this is something that we want or we can tolerate.

You can tolerate three-star. You're really correct. I get this validation during Christmas, and it's really weird. Because of all the product reviews we do on the Chris Voss Show on YouTube. In that case, it's the Christmas Voss Show. Yeah, the Christmas Voss Show. Around Christmas, pre-holiday, I see the views start to really escalate, and they go up quite a bit. And it's people that

are trying to figure out what they want to buy. Now, I think it's also people trying to figure out what they want to ask for as well. Sure. Oh, totally. Yeah. And then what's interesting to me is that after Christmas, for about a month, the views still keep on this high of escalation. And the comments begin to be anywhere from, how do I make this work? Or I just got this and I want to make sure it was cool and that I'm going to keep it. So it's like the validation to like,

should I return this or should I keep this? Well, I think that's a really fascinating insight. And part of the reason why the views are going to grow is because you've had so much organic traffic that when they're searching on that to figure out how does it work and if they're going to keep it, you're the top of the list.

Yeah. It's always interesting to me because I'll get these comments where people will be like, they'll be a little vague about it. They like oh i just got this last week and uh yeah so it looks good so thanks and you're like were you deciding whether or not you're going to keep the product or return it or there are some people that they haven't figured out how to get it to work and they're like oh i see how it works now or sometimes I get shit because I didn't show something how something was put

together how something worked like I get yelled at all the time on printer things where I don't show it printing something in the speed that it does and I'm like well it does say on the box and I did say that in the feature set that it does 20 sheets per minute but do I really have to fucking do a video for half an hour with printing a sheet so that you can see how fast 20 sheets per minute, but do I really have to fucking do a video for half an hour with printing a sheet so that you can see how fast 20 pages per minute is? Well, that only matters if your computer can spit out 20 pages for a minute.

That sounds like a personal problem for some people. It is. I mean, it's 2018. I hope so. Do you remember the days when there used to be that, what is it, dot matrix or whatever? Oh, I hope so. Remember the days when it used to be that was a dot matrix or whatever. Oh gosh. Yes.

It would have that paper with the, uh, what was the paper called? It was called a green bar. Yeah. Green bar. And it had the ridges. You had to peel that crap off.

Yep. You had to tear off the perforations. Perforated. Perforated green bar. And I would go to sleep at night hearing that dot mace was screaming in my ears. It'd take like half an hour to print anything. Oh, yeah, exactly.

And if you were a real geek, you'd make wrapping paper from that green bar, and you'd print their name on it. Step and repeat. Let's get back to the content here versus flashing back. Or back flashing. Sure. Why not? The idea here is objective.

What do people want to... This is the most fucked up show I've ever known in a while and it's great. Well, I've got to tell you, it takes me to make that happen. Alright, I'm up for that. So, backtracking or whatever.

Right. We were talking about objective and identity and how it's a moving target and how at Christmas time people are getting on the show and they're making comments on your show and what they're doing is they're actually reinforcing their identity. That's great.

This is getting so funny. So, yeah. I'm sorry, Mark. For what, man? There's no reason. Laughter is a great thing, man. You're just cracking me up. I took you from a weird morning to laughing. Yeah. This is a good thing, man. I know. You're just cracking me up. I took you from a weird morning to laughing. Yeah.

This is a good day for it. So help me understand this. I used to have this girlfriend. And I used to have a girlfriend. That's weird. I used to have this girlfriend. It was only one. But I used to have this girlfriend, and she's pretty funny chick um and she she used to be

a model in la and she was really how many years ago how did you just how many years ago was she a model in la when you met her uh well i've been about 10 years and two kids since she'd been a model but she still had that had that model frame in fact i used to look at her and be like how the hell did you get two kids out of that thing? She was like about this big around. And I'm referring to this part. And I don't know. That's weird. She was about this big around.

That's weird, too. Well, hopefully people are listening and not watching. Now you know how to show kids out. Yeah. It's just there's a lot of places I can go with those jokes as a comedian with the hand signals I just made and I you know this isn't that show no it's not because we're not serving the place that show is a whole lot better with yes that's Fridays so anyway the we go out to eat and it was it was always funny and she was a she was a high maintenance uh

uh which is another word for pain in the ass uh chick and she was really lovely and wonderful uh and probably one of my most favorite girlfriends um and uh yes there was more than one uh and so we would go out to eat and i always ordered caesar salad because i grew up poor and i i liked you know caesar salad was kind of like the thing and there's your identity right that's right and i always like caesar salad too it's if it's done right you know you know beautiful remain lettuce i like the way some oh you do eat lettuce yeah i do eat lettuce it has to have a lot of dressing on it. That's okay. So I'd order a Caesar salad.

So she would be like, I want a Caesar salad too, like Chris, but hold the Caesar salad, hold the Caesar dressing and put ranch on it. Oh, okay. She wanted a side of ranch too because she's one of those chicks oh sure dressing on put it on the side um so she'd be like i just want a side of ranch and the waiter or waitress would start being like well that's not a caesar salad honey that's just a sound with ranch on it and and she'd be like no no no i want a caesar salad with ranch dressing on the side and they'd be like but ma'am the thing and i and i'd be like hey uh waitress waiter waiter just just just give her

that just trust me you're you're not gonna win the fucking argument and you're not gonna get a tip no no matter no matter what you did no no matter what I did, no matter what the poor waiter or waitress would do, they could... And we had conversations about this. I'd be like, let me explain salads here to you. Salad composition

discussion. Salad 101. Yeah. The green stuff. And there's a certain way that, but she would have none of that. There was no discussing the logistics or logics of salad composition and preparation. And so I just had to live with it.

Like every time we'd go out, it would just be like, oh, God, it's going to be the salad thing again. And, you know, and they would just bring her ranch salad and just, you know, she wouldn't know the damn difference, right? Yeah. And. Here you go, man. Here's your Caesar salad with a side of ranch.

My setup for that is a question to you. I guess that is some sort of form of identity. It is. Yeah. Or in her particular case, you know, she liked the Caesar salad nomenclature, but she didn't like the Caesar salad dressing. Maybe she had something against anchovies. Well, I never had anchovies on mine.

Oh, but there's anchovies. If it's a Caesar salad dressing, there's anchovies in the dressing. Otherwise, you can't call it Caesar dressing. Yeah, yeah, and so maybe she didn't like that put an eska edge I don't know It could be but yes it is. I we will get back to order. It's a dummy She would do the same thing with her meals like he she couldn't just order something off the venue It had to be a pain in the ass like I want the steak

but I want the meat you know and just it would be a fucking production by the time they got done like the poor waiter or waitress would be running out of shit to write down did she do that with everything everything what she did she created this

she had this identity of doing things special just for her she had to be created this, she had this identity of, of doing things special just for her. She had to be a special person. Well, she was a special person. And she had to have things just her way. And she would create these ways of making sure she called attention to herself by everything was non normal.

Everything was something additional. Yeah. And you know, there's a term for that. Narcissist. That does explain a lot actually and it's fine you get to live any way that you like and I have had people

in my life that have had everything slightly different than everybody else and they are a pain and you have to love them anyway if you choose to have them in your life yeah well sometimes they're good and bad so you keep them around. That's true until they start ordering too many sides.

Yeah. In bed? Sure. You know, and it is true. And so basically, if I'm a salesperson, do I need, is that what I'm trying to do when I'm asking questions? Am I trying to establish identity? Yeah, you're trying to figure out their identity and also trying to connect with that.

And the reason why is because a customer can never buy from you unless they see what you're selling as becoming part of their identity. And so a low consideration sale is one where they've already agreed that purchasing from you is part of their identity. A high consideration is where they have not yet agreed that you can become part of their identity. Is part of that me being able to sell them on why this is part of their identity or why it complements or enhances their identity in some way or another? Yes. You can't be that blatant about it, unfortunately. But the answer is yes.

If anybody who you know who sold real estate will tell you that when the buyer starts imagining the furniture in place, they're trying on the identity of that house so when the wife starting to imagine what the bedroom looks like what the bathroom looks like and when the kitchen looks like with their stuff in place they've bought the house mm-hmm and that's usually what you learn especially as a realtor yeah you learn that you learn that the you learn the wife, when the wife goes in the home, that's really when the sale takes place.

And she's usually looking at two or three things. She's always looking at the kitchen. Yep. She's looking at the bathroom. Yep. And she's looking at the master bedroom, predominantly the master bedroom, her closet and how big she can- That's exactly right.

Her closet to fit all of her stuff. That's it. It's those three things are what sell a house. And it's when the wife sees it as part of their identity that the house is sold. So part of what a salesperson has to do is figure out those elements of their customer that need to have the

identity alignment have to come into play, and then make sure that you focus on getting those identity elements in alignment. So as a salespersonperson you need to watch for my identity alignment yeah you look for identity alignment because once that happens and they can say yes and you just have to have that yes that happen with everybody else so since we're talking real estate you know the the wife looks for identity and alignment on the three rooms that we discussed and then the the male is going to look for identity alignment for two or three things as well.

Typically, it's going to be garage, man cave, maybe yard. Yeah. And usually about that much space in the closets. Yeah, exactly. For me, it's a place to hang my guitars and rock and roll with my wife. And even then, your wife comes in the room every now and then and goes, you know, I can put something in there. No, my space is sacred.

She won't mess with my room. Well, that's cool. Yeah. Every man needs to have their space that can be as messy and screwed up as possible. You know, I used to have that with a few of my girlfriends. I used to get to the point living with them where I'd be like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm just going to build me a little

guest house. That's it. A little dull guest house in the backyard. That's it. I'm just going to go spend most of my time out there. I'm just going to come in here when we commiserate. I'm just going to go out there. I'm going to do whatever the fuck to go out there and I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want out there.

I'm going to walk around my underwear and pick my nose and fart and play guitar and play a lot of music. Have sports on 24-7, strippers over, you know, working the pole

or what, wait, that is why I'm still single um and I'm just gonna do that and then they're always so offended they're like what you know what oh my god you're like no I just you have to understand I have to have my tune out space I have to have the my cave to where I go to refill my bucket to put up with your bullshit. I mean, to thrust it along. The reality is most men, they hate to admit it, are introverts, and introverts recharge in their own space.

Well, we don't talk as much as women. I have a couple of friends I play with on gaming, and sadly for both he and I, I don't know who suffers more, his wife, and he must have tile floors or something,

but his wife just talks constantly in the background. Sometimes I'm like, dude, I got to mute you because I feel like I'm married. She just never shuts the fuck up. And that's her identity, isn't it? Well, I guess. Always something to say.

I don't know how women work through their thing. There's nothing wrong with that. But men are introverts. I mean, I think women are more extroverts is the point I'm trying to make. And men are more introverts. And, you know, as men, we can hang out and not say anything. We can go fishing for a day and not talk to each other the whole day. That was bonding quality time where women have to talk.

That's where a lot of men lose their mind because they're just like, uh, uh, uh, uh. But yeah, it's all about identity. The thing I was going to ask you, one of the things I always taught my salespeople, and this usually meant the difference between getting sales and not getting sales, was the first thing I would tell them to do is ask the customer who calls in, or you're calling them, what do you want to accomplish? Right on. And that always worked well for us. Is that a way to establish identity in the sales process?

Absolutely. And that goes right to the three different levels of questions is objective priorities and criteria. And what do you want to accomplish is objective. And we always have to start with what is your objective? What are you trying to accomplish? What are you trying to avoid? And both are possible. You know, it could be some, usually a blend of both.

We're trying to accomplish something. We're trying to accomplish something. We're trying to avoid something. And so starting off with that objective gets straight to the heart of things. You know, I never really thought about it, but you just brought this up. And now I understand it better. For, jeez, all the decades I've been doing that. Unconscious confidence. People buy sometimes based on fear.

And sometimes people buy based upon gain desire desire yeah um and usually it's a blend of both and so when you do ask somebody what do you want to accomplish you're going to find out which drives them that's right whether they're trying to avoid or they're trying to accomplish and the thing that's interesting is that it usually has to do in the world of business with their role. For example, a CEO is always driving forward. They're trying to accomplish things. And somebody who's on the front line, maybe an IT guy or a lawyer, they're trying to avoid things. So this concept of avoid or accomplish is driven by their role in the organization.

And then, of course, people tend to mimic that in their day-to-day life. Yeah. I learned this a long time ago, especially when I went through a catharsis. I grew up poor. I wanted to be rich. Then I got rich. I bought everything I wanted. And then I kind of went through this fight club experience where I was like,

is this all there is, is this, this is what I wanted. And I finally got it. And it's really, uh, not what I thought it would be. Um,

and then I became kind of more of a minimalist and dial that back and, and tried to find a place where I can find out to him happiness and fulfillment without creating a world where everything I owned owned me and and it seemed like no matter how rich I got or how much stuff I got more people just thought I was an asshole and had their hands out more driving me crazy and I couldn't make anyone happy knowing how many drinks I bought or what I paid for um now I make me happy and that seems to work pretty good for me last time I checked you know Chris that's the massive shift that we're seeing in our culture right now we're going from this age of ownership as baby boomers we were taught

that we wanted to own the means of production which meant that if you had a business, you had to own the equipment, you had to have employees that delivered on the services that you provided. It meant that you owned your own house, it meant you owned your own car, you owned all the stuff. And if you wanted to go skiing, you had to own the skis. Now we're shifting this culture to the age of access. Yes. Where you own nothing but control everything. Yeah.

I mean, I remember growing up where my BMWs were my identity. Right on. There you go. It was all, and I remember when I finally gave up owning BMWs, because I was like, you know, and it was this factor that came from Fight Club, where it was like, I'm buying shit that I don't need to impress people that I don't give a fuck about right on and they don't care I mean I used to be you know walk around my BMW that was my

part of my identity and after a while I realized that no one really cared much maybe some girls I dated but even then there was sometimes I did a girl and she you know she come to my house be like why do you have to own this car I have down this big house and I'm like press chicks like even the core and some weren't impressed and then I realized that I was spending all this money walking around buying all this stuff and doing all these things to impress people that really didn't give a crap about me. And sometimes they're just like, I don't give a crap that you own a BMW.

That doesn't mean anything to you. And I remember selling cars back in the day when I was a kid. A lot of it was based on identity. Some people see themselves as truck buyers. I own a truck. That's right. I have a pickup truck. Yeah, you have other buyers that see themselves as truck buyers. I own a truck. That's right. I have a pickup truck. Yeah, you have other buyers that see themselves as economy buyers.

They buy the cheapest thing because it just gets me from point A to point B, and I get to save my money for other things. Yeah, and there's people that, you know, I have to have a Cadillac, leather seats, and all that, power windows and shit um it's interesting to me as to how we pick things in our identity I mean even even when I date I mean I I you know as I go through my bumble and I'm lefting and writing the swiping I'm you know I I see somebody and I'm like well they seem nice I don't know if they're a nice person or someone sends you a message like,

hey, I might be interested in you. You're like, look at them. You're like, yeah, they seem nice. But then you're like, hmm, I wonder how I feel about my picture with theirs on Facebook. It's like, this is my girlfriend. I want people to think. It's kind of weird that we think that way, huh? Yeah, and we often do so subconsciously.

Yeah, yeah. That's probably why, like we were joking earlier before the show about why is a girlfriend's dress as men, because they're like, are we? You know, and there's a story behind that, too. I used to, my girlfriend, when we'd have that whole argument we discussed, where should we go out to eat, and do you want to go here, and then we'd end up at the oyster bar um back then i was fairly in the money and so we'd go to

the oyster bar and usually it would be a production of course you got to get the crab legs and the steak and the and the you know the expensive wine and the caesar made and the ca Caesar salad made table side. And so, you know, we go out there. Well, I would just be home from work. And I'd just be like, and I never dated women that cooked. I mean, I used to own a modeling agency. Okay. Of course, models don't cook. Yeah.

They don't cook. You don't date models for cooking um and so uh and so they would never cook and we go out to eat well i'd want to be in my shorts i just got done working i'm not going to dress up to go to the oyster bar especially when i got a bloody pay for it and my girlfriend always be like you know where then we go out to the oyster bar and I'd be like I don't give a fuck I mean I just need I need to eat because you don't cook honey um and they would be like well I don't want to be seen with you in your shorts and your flip-flops in the oyster bar well who cares who cares I don't I don't give a fuck about those people the oyster bar it's not like it's not like, why do I care what they're going to do?

And she's like, well, we'll just look bad. But there you go. There's an identity thing right there. Absolutely true. It goes both ways. They're judging to see, is this somebody that I want my friends to see me with? Yeah. Because if you don't get the

identity thing right, you have to find new friends. Weather explains why I'm single, isn't it? Everyone on Bumble's like, I don't want to see that motherfucker. Yep, that's crazy how that works, but it is exactly how it works but most of this

identity is installed when we're young yeah even before we even have a chance of questioning whether this is an identity that we want and frequently this happens with sports you know people's sports preferences happens when they're kids and they go to ball games with their grandpa or their dad and they're still following teams that are losers yeah because that's who they are and they would never consider switching team they call it my team there's no ownership it's just the weirdest thing and they're willing to make themselves miserable once a week following a team that was installed by their parents who were miserable at least once a week. Well, my dad was never a Raiders fan,

but early on, because I lived in L.A., I glommed onto the Raiders, and I think one of the early books that I got was... And the Raiders just won the Super Bowl, so they were kind of the shit. And I forget the name of the quarterback during the 76, 77 Raiders, but I got a book about the quarterback during the 76, 77 Raiders.

But I got a book about him and the Raiders, and that really cemented my Raider thing. But you just describe what every Sunday is like here in watching the Raiders. I have to remove all the knives and weapons from the home because. Ken Stabler? The fucking Raiders. It was Ken Stabler, yes. Ken Stabler and the Raiders.

I still have the book, too, yes. The magic of Google. Yeah. And on the topic of what's going on here in November 6th, in much the same way, people, once they pick a political party for the voting that's going to be happening next Tuesday, and it's dominating our news right now, the process around

that, people do the same thing with their political party choices. Well, they do. They stick with it for life. And keep in mind that it tends to be very much that identity tends to be centered around both how they were raised and the people they hang out with. And political party is probably one of the most polarizing identities just because of the way that the media makes it a polarizing factor. It doesn't help that the president makes it very polarizing with his tweets.

I don't want to get political here, but I know there's a lot of people in the Republican Party who are in his party who say, you know, we really just don't like those tweets because they are polarizing. And polarization is part of marketing. And so I don't want to talk about it from a political standpoint, although you and I over drinks would probably have a very intense conversation, which I think would be a delight. I'm always up for debate. And the thing to keep in mind is for both of us, the rule is the moments we attack each other, the game is over. over well this is interesting to me because i've been having a lot of discussions about party uh and politics let's let's we'll keep it veneer um but um what's interesting to me is there

are some subtleties of certain political parties or you can probably say both parties. They're very concrete, inherent, and sometimes, what's the right words to use? Obstructive or prejudice. Well, there certainly is. You can say it's both parties. They actually have particular worldviews. Yeah, because I actually see the arguments on both sides of both parties.

As do I. The party that I usually end up identifying with and there's there's our identity right there that's it and I actually tell people it's I'm not XYZ party they just identify with me so there's another example of what you're talking about with identity but it sometimes it's hard to get those voters to understand i'll just give an example like i i tend to identify with democrat i'm not really big on the whole how far the democrats go over with the environment stuff i it has taken me a while to warm up to global warming i do think we have an effect on the environment but you know you know, like, Obama did kind

of jump the shark and try and shove us down the solar hole, a little too hard when they started out, in fact, if you remember, he funded, like, I think it was, like, 150 million or 50 million grant loan to some solar company, and they were going to overthrow coal, and then they went bankrupt with the money, and everyone was like, well, that was fucking stupid and way before it's time. Now we can kind of see what, 8, 12 years later with Tesla and there's more, solar is more

geared for the mainstream of what it was. We've made a lot of progress. But that's an example of where I have to kind of take a blind eye to that identity politics. In fact, identity politics is what Bannon and Trump

really use. Absolutely true. And I imagine that's what they're targeting when they hit their hot button. Indeed. And let's go back to this concept of polarizing tweets. That is a marketing strategy to clearly call out identity.

Yeah. Because when you read the president's tweets, you are either for it or against it, and there's no neutral ground. Yeah. It's not quite vitriol on either side. It's an identity driver. You know, and we've got to be careful

not to steer too far into politics. We don't want to do that, but we're talking about identity. And politics is a very... I hope everyone in our audience keeps this in bearing in mind. Yeah, yeah. Well, sports and politics are where identity is extremely polar. Yeah.

Is it because we get attached to them in our youth? And we've really committed to them over a lifetime? Indeed. And because the crowd we hang out with, specifically in the world of sports, let's just go back to sports because it ends up being the same. Yeah.

We hang out with people who support the same team we support. Yeah. And since the Vegas Golden Knights hockey team has burst onto the scene, my dear sweet wife has become a hockey fan where she has supported no team ever in her life. So she's fallen in love with Fleury. And the reason why is he has a physical resemblance to our youngest son. Now, is Fleury the mascot for the Knights?

The Vegas Knights? Yeah, he's the goalie. He's the goalie Vegas Knights? Yeah, he's the goalie. He's the goalie? Oh, okay. He's the goalie. He's the guy that looks like Gumby. Is your wife hot for the goalie? She's hot for the goalie.

She loves how he drops to his knees. I don't. And so you walk into her office, and she's got a wall full of Vegas Golden Knights stuff. She's got a nice identity there, Mark. stuff. She's got an identity there, Mark. I don't know. I know. That might be it.

I don't know. So the point, though, is that we can create identity relationships. It doesn't have to go back to our youth, although a lot of unexamined identity can be pinned back to where we made decisions before we made a logical decision, made emotional decision versus a logical decision. And sometimes when we're selling things, we have to help a person see a new level of identity,

a new way of being. Yeah. And that can be triggered by things such as getting married, having children or being promoted within an organization or taking on a new job. All of those things can trigger exploration of a person's identity. And the whole idea behind the midlife crisis, which was identified by Elliot Jacques,

who is a Canadian industrial psychologist, is where, as you were explaining earlier on the show, you got to this point where, you know, I am not my car. I am not you know, I am not my car. I am not my house. I am not my stuff. I'm not a crisis, a catharsis. That's exactly right.

Where you reshaped your identity. Yeah. You reinvented your identity. I did. I did. I got rid of everything that was owning me that I owned and really ended up owning. Why not? everything that was owning me that i thought i owned didn't really end up why not yeah you're just like just like i'm paying for the baby grand piano and i'm paying for uh at one point i had uh i had a house in utah and we had offices in vegas and denver so i had an apartment in denver and i

had to make everything in denver the same i had apartment in vegas uh and i might i had two bmws in any given airport any time there was one in vegas uh with my golf clubs in it and there was one in utah and at any given point one of those was parked in an airport um yeah and and i mean my life just got to be be an incredible pain in the ass. It got to the point where I was, I had my office in Utah, but I was working. I would say that I was working in Utah and I'd fly there Monday through Thursday, visit my house. And then I would live in Vegas or what I was trying to do was live in Vegas. And I would live Friday through Sunday in Vegas at my apartment in my other BMW down there

and just the whole the whole menagerie of trying to make all those plates spin is just enough and I finally reached a point where I just want to go sit at home and squat in my corner and have my little radial tires and my Oh you are going to go to SEMA

my network movie and a bit just leave me alone go check out the latest tires at sema that's a good idea yeah yeah that's that i well and so you know what we have identified here is that when people shift their identity that's when you can bring on a new vendor yeah when you can bring on a new choice you know sales people were looking for that what is it you're trying to accomplish? And when you can identify what their identity shift is doing and attach what you do to that identity shift, you will win because everybody else

is selling the stuff versus you are selling the support of their new identity. What's interesting to me is sometimes in sales, especially in real estate, you realize that women are nesters. Someone explained this concept to me a long time. They're building a nest, and they want to make their nest.

They want to personalize it. They want to make it comfortable because part of the thing is they're bringing children to that nest. And so the whole operation is around that. As a man, you are just the accessory in that sort of experience. In fact, you're the accessory pretty much most of the time. Well, it's that hunter-gatherer archetype. And yeah, you can resist it, but the reality is that generalization is true way more often than not. And there were times in the sales process where, whether it was with cars or with women, usually men were very, you know, they were the car buyers and it was about their identity. But, but there were times where the woman would be like, no, this is my car.

This isn't your car. And as a salesperson, you would have to balance out their identities and, and, and, and their dominance. So in that experience, especially in the home, even in, even like home sales every now and then, you know, the be like you know he you know his ego would boost something oh I have to make it and you have to kind of placate to that for a little bit well knowing that you know there was this dynamic between the two to the two decision makers right on and you really are playing to dominance submissive because you can't have two dominants In a relationship

And you would do that When you'd walk through the home You'd be like This is the garage Look at all the stuff you can do Here's this yard that you can work in Because your wife doesn't want you in the house Anyway really

She wants you out hunting. Yeah. Yep. It's a hunter-gatherer thing. It's still there. Yeah. I mean, my girlfriends used to always, whenever we'd look at a new place, you know, they'd always want to see the closets.

And then they'd be like, well, I don't, you know, I'd hear, well, I can't get everything that we have in the closets at this house into that new house. And I don't, you know, it't get everything that we have in the closets at this house into that new house. It was about closet space. Have you ever thought about getting rid of some stuff? Yeah, that was... No. That was always...

I'll never forget, I had this one girlfriend. She's really wonderful. I'm not complaining about anyone because I always had great girlfriends. We learn from everybody that we have in our life. Yeah, and I was always the problem child. But I remember I had this one girlfriend, and she had clothes going back to probably the first clothes she ever goddamn bought.

Oh, she had a onesie? Pretty much. And I never was able to audit and inventory the whole clothing line. But there were clothes, and I'm like, were these from the 70s? I don't think these are even going to be in style. They'll be in style in a couple years. All right. Okay, whatever.

But you go through some of the clothes, and you'd be like, no one wears this anymore. I'm a man, and I know this isn't in style. These colors are god-awful. So what you can say, I wouldn't be caught dead with you wearing this. Pretty much, yeah. Which you couldn't have said.

What's wrong? Is my ass too big? But she had clothes that filled the whole master bedroom, most of her two children's clothes, and she even had clothes at her mother's house, in the empty rooms of her mother's house when they were raised as a family. And I was allotted in the closet this much space for my clothes. Now, thankfully, I like wearing shorts and shirts,

and I'm not like a whole suits guy. This was back in the day when I wore suits. And I was a lot of this much space. And every, like, I don't know, a couple months or every month or something, there would have to be this discussion about she would have audited and inventoried everything that was in this space. She's like, do you really need all that? Because I need some more space.

I'm like, fuck you. This is this space. She's like, do you really need all that? Because I need some more space. I'm like, fuck you. This is my space. This is my identity. This is all you give me. It's all I've got. It's all I've got. This will go along with my Lazy Boy and my Real Tires and my Darjeet Bunker TV.

Oh, yeah. I'm sick of it. I can't take it anymore the the but you know I it is interesting so I mean as as as people do we need the do we need to sit down and do inventory identity clearances don't ask what is my identity well I think it's the that's that concept of know yourself. The more you know yourself, the easier it is for you to make choices that support your identity. Or you can make intelligent decisions about shifting your identity to new ways, new places. And maybe that helps in your buying decisions because you're like, do I really like this?

Because that did happen to me when I threw my catharsis. I love BMWs. But I remember years ago, after converting from a BMW to just a car that I have that's fitting for commutes for my single lifestyle because I only drive like once every four days. I have groceries delivered. I have it all delivered. There's some times where I actually go, I haven'm driven for like three or four days I should go drive

that thinks the battery isn't I and I remember one time I went to the dog park and I used to take my dogs with me and my car is covered in hair and and so I I went to the dog park and it was just mud. It just rained. And the dogs came back, they jumped in my car and, and I'm like, this is probably why it's good to be in on a BMW and work.

I would be freaking the hell out right now. Uh, and I don't really have to care that much. You know, that's the point is that you don't want to have stuff that owns you. That's, that is an ugly place to be because you really disconnected yourself from yourself and he spent all your time just just keeping the plate spinning and you know I've had

friends I actually thought it was several times about buying another BMW and I'm like what am I gonna do it's gonna rot in the garage all day long and with self-driving cars coming online you're assuming I don't think that it makes any sense at all to buy a car and you said caught that up early we're moving into that age of where there's a disposability of where you you it was self-driving cars you'll just call up a car or not car will come it's a utility as opposed to an identity of luxury that's exactly what I mean your friends hey look I ordered a car. I'm going to throw it away.

Exactly. It's a big shift. Now, let's go back and talk about that shift from the age of ownership to the age of access. The big underlying advance is in the age of ownership, you have the fear of loss, which means you owned it, you had to insure it, you had to protect it, you had to secure it. You had to worry about people stealing it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And the stuff breaking, you had to insure it you had to protect it you had to secure it had to worry about people stealing it oh yeah yeah and it's stuff breaking you have to maintain it and this movement to the age of access means you have none of that fear of loss yeah yeah but what we move to is this fear of missing out the FOMO FOMO yeah but the good news is that you can you can rein in FOMO way faster than you can reign in other fears.

Yeah, just turn off your phone and your social media accounts and you'll be fine. Decide who you are and be okay with that. You know, maybe that's what more people need to do. They need to decide who they are and that they aren't. You know, I remember my good friend Robert Scoble, this has always stuck in my head all the years he said it, he goes, you know, we live in this FOMO world now with social media and people see other people's Instagram accounts and it causes a lot of depression, even worse now today with these young kids that they don't understand.

And people only post the high points of their life. Which is the reason why the Chris Cross show is so great because we get to broadcast both the highs and the low points of their life. Which is the reason why the Chris Cross show is so great, because we get to broadcast both the highs and the low points. Yeah, well, I mean, we should probably start drinking now. That's for a 20-some hour, because God knows

you don't want to see the rest of the time. This is, you know, I do an eight-ball coke before the show, we're jacked up and we do it and rock and roll, and then after that, I don't do it anymore. Keep in mind, Chris, it's 420 somewhere. I probably need another shot then.

So it is legal here. The 420. But I'm trying to think of a point that I was about to make. The point about knowing yourself. Oh. The point about knowing yourself. Oh, the point about knowing yourself.

Instagram and people. Somebody said, I forget who it was. You were talking about Scoble. I was talking about Scoble, and Scoble made this point. He goes, you know, no one ever Instagrams, or back then it was Foursquare. He goes, no one ever Foursquare's the check-in at the methadone clinic. Right. At the parole office, at the pawn shop.

That's right. At the STD doctor. No one ever checks in at those locations. No one ever posts, hey, look, I'm, you know, I'm at the methadone rehab clinic. Woo-hoo! You know? I'm at the methadone rehab clinic. Woo-hoo! And we put these things on social media that are these perceived high points, like we live at that elevation at all times. And it does create this FOMO amongst people, like you mentioned,

where, you know, it's, oh, well, Joni looks like she's on vacation all the time, Chris. You need to make some more money so that we can be like Joni on vacation. And really, you know, I don't know, Joni is, I don't know what Joni's doing, but you know what I mean. Well, Joni is obviously fleecing, conning other people into taking her on vacation. Something like that, you know. And that or, you know, what I do, and, and, and, and that, or, you know,

what I do is when I, when I travel, I'm a, I'm a photographer. So I'll take like 20,000 photos. And then you take time doling up those photos and editing them and, and putting them out. My friend,

uh, Thomas Hawk. I mean, if he takes a photo, he's taking photos of me and I'll like count them. I'm like, Hey, when do I get that photo? He said, about four years chris i'm like why and he goes because that's how far behind i'm in editing and that's that's how i work i take like 20 or 30 000 photos

and then and then i'm still doing photos from four years ago and and that's how he works and even now i have probably with my dogs i don't know 50000 photos of my dogs going back to the two other dogs that have passed away where I still have not processed her photos. Well, I think you just find everybody listening to the show. Yeah. We all have a bazillion photos of people we don't care about anymore. Yeah. Well, I still care about them.

I just haven't gotten the time to get around to them because delete them from your, um, and, and, and even worse. Now, when I do edit those photos and go back through those,

those dogs, uh, it's very different than when with my dogs that I have now, uh, because, because it's very finite. Those pictures can't be replaced. I'll,

I'll even keep photos that are out of focus because the subject is no longer with us, and it's finite. I'll never be able to get that picture or close to that picture again, even though it's out of focus. There's something about throwing it away that I have issues with, too, and whatever. It's fine with me. It's part of your identity? It's part of my identity, I suppose, yeah. It actually is I actually go through that catharsis with when I lost my two dogs that had traveled with me through 16 years 16 to 17 years of their life of my

life and when I lost both of them within two or three years of each other when I lost the second one I really felt like it was closing off a part of my identity, those 17 years, because they were witness to it. And that was actually an issue that I have with it, is that I feel like a part of that life or that identity is lost, which is kind of an interesting approach, since we're talking about identity.

Indeed. Indeed. Yeah. And so those pictures help remind us and anchor those identity points in our life. Yeah. And it is kind of odd. I have a different identity now, and I actually objectify that when I think about the two puppies that I have now, and to me there is a chapter, a different chapter of my life, a segment of my life, where this is this area and that was that area. And I guess that is an identity sort in and of itself.

Indeed. In fact, I think you've brought up a really interesting concept of why people feel so at loss when a pet leaves their life. It's because there's a piece of their identity that's gone and will no longer be reclaimed. Yeah. And so that we feel a loss, not just for our friend, but we lose that piece of us that was such an important component of us. And even stuff that we lose, I remember years ago, or being stolen, I remember years ago, someone stole this really nice...

It was a really nice... What was it? Satellite radio? Sirius. It was a Sirius XM radio. It was really cool. It was about this big. I remember when someone stole it and I really loved, and I really appreciate that.

And I, I just felt so what's the right word. I just felt so violated by that. And really it was a violation of my identity, I guess, when it comes down to it. Cause you were the guy that had that early on external radio. Yeah. It's part of what you did

yeah it's crazy how we do that and i think that's where we if we if we examine our identity intentionally and we decide the identity of who we wish to be versus making it unintentional or accidental or um something that we're baggage that we're carrying and then part of that's that's part of that concept of baggage is we have an identity that no longer serves us that we agreed to pick up in the past and let that go. That reinvention process is painful because it causes us to have to shift our

identity. The way that you do it is actually pretty simple. You have to spend time with you. Alone. No phone. That's what the vodka is for no internet well that'll that'll bring out a certain part of your identity you notice how some people get are happy drunks and

some people are asshole drunks yeah the thing is that's interesting things about alcohol is it it amplifies a natural identity yeah it's kind of interesting because i have dated women that they're they're fun drugs but on a rare occasion i've drank i've drank i've i've had girlfriends that when they drink they become something more angry and meaner than anything i've ever seen and and it amplifies their thing and it and that is kind of i mean I've known friends that do drugs, and a certain drug that you would expect to do a certain thing, like, say, cocaine, would depress them, as opposed to make them more happy. You're like, it's not what cocaine is supposed to do.

But it is interesting. Same thing with money. Money amplifies people's identity. Yeah, especially when you vault the $100 bills and snort the cocaine. And it amplifies that. Indeed. All that amplification. Amplification is not amplification.

You get a lot of feedback. And screech. $100 bills. Yeah, it's interesting to me. I don't know. Maybe I should be spending more time when I go through my world understanding people from an identity process.

Like, what is their identity, and how is their identity? I know a lot of people, their identity is to be a good dad. Yeah, right. A good husband. Certainly people post those pictures. I'm a dog dad, so I'm always showing off my kids in the videos. Part of your identity is... I'm sure I'm nodding to some people. They're just like, really?

Another photo of your dog? And I'm the same way with people's kids. I'm like, look, I've seen your fucking kid. I don't need to see another photo. It's a child, really. You know, it's like when people show me their babies. I'm like, what? You're like, it's beautiful.

You're like, I don't know. It looks like it's fat and cheeky and angry to be here. Babies don't look happy most of the time. But the rest of the time, they're just like, it's cold. And I hear there's taxes and death coming in. And I'd rather do anything, but you have my, take my picture right now.

But the only time they're happy is when they're pooping their pants, which is kind of where I'm at now. Yeah. That's a, that's where we end up. We start off pooping our pants. We end up poking in our pants. The whole thing that we were talking earlier about doing the

Depend show with Insurer and with Lawrence Welk. Yeah. Insurer and... Do they still make... What was that stuff they used to sell? Geritol. Remember that? They still sell Geritol?

Was that the nasty stuff your grandparents used to put on their cream for their arthritis and shit? I think that was fuck it all or something like that. No, that was the Bengay. It was Geritol. Oh, Bengay. Geritol was this liquid that was

like iron and it was primarily alcohol. I think it was mostly like lead and mercury. It was from the 70s. I brought you. Buy Geritol. You can tall and shoot that stuff yep yeah those are the days wasn't it I remember watching a I grew up in the age of cigarettes and everyone smoking oh sure I think I remember going in the hospital they were you know doctors yeah you play you probably have lung cancer i'm thinking i don't

know what's causing her right now but you have a lung cancer honey um that's right four out of five doctors surveyed smoke and recommend camel uh you know those are bad which you kind of have to wonder when the doctor says you've got stints in your heart you need uh xyz i should start selling ads to prescription companies so I can use references. Get out that physician's desk reference. Pick your poison. Just pick one of the...

You'd think I could remember them all for all the ones that are on TV. In fact, I pretty much quit watching TV. When I do watch, I use Sling TV. I usually watch on my laptop next to my desk, so I have my main computer and I have a laptop there. And as soon as a commercial comes on, it's like, mute.

Yeah, right on. Sling TV, Crutch TV, you know, Cast TV, whatever. But the reality is, you know, about 10 years ago, the entire news world shifted away from reporting news. You don't see news on TV anymore.

Yeah. It was about the same time MTV quit putting music videos. Exactly. And the reason why is because we can get news on the Internet anytime, anyplace, anywhere. So they made this wholesale pivot to opinion. Yeah. And there is no news is all opinion,

and opinion is designed to scare the crap out of you so you'll sit through the pharmacy commercials. Well, I mean, you brought this up earlier. It's meant to hit that marketing hot button that sets you off. That gives you that whole thing. CNN is classic for that. I can barely stand to watch CNN. Yeah, MSNBC, Fox, all of them.

It's quite as bad as CNN. CNN and Zucker, whatever his name is, the guy who runs it, they do those panels. And those panels drive me fucking insane with their bullshit. Yeah. Because at the end of an hour of fucking argument between, and he always sets up the panels to where we got the extreme rightists, the extreme leftists.

And I've even seen some parenting videos where they cut to Anderson Cooper's face where he's like, seriously, this is some bullshit. Right here we go. I'm so glad I make millions to put up with this crap. Yeah, and really they're just like,

okay, you can't call the person the N-word and you can't punch that person in the face. They're just kind of like the referees to the panel where if shit just gets way too fucking out of hand but and the panel knows exactly which role to play yeah and but they know they know how to get it to that point where it's out of hand and they come and they're like hey all right everyone stop punching each other in the face yeah we've hit the line. Every other show is doing the same thing.

You watch Fox News shows, it's the same left-right crap. But at the end of it, you're just like, what did we accomplish with all the yelling and screaming between the left and right? Did we resolve something at the end where we're like, okay. No, there is no resolution.

It's just hilarious. It's just what you talked about earlier where it you know even though trump recently did an interview with axios and it this just came out last day i think it's being published right now but he he's talking with the axios ceo um his name is casey right now and you know they actually said ceos why do you have to be so bombastic why do you have to be so bombastic why you have to be why if you go there and trump's like that's what fires up my base and it's what you mentioned earlier that those marketing hit points of being able to fire someone up to get them to buy

something whether it's a political concept or whether it's a car or whether it's a you know what you're trying to sell you've got to be able to hit that target and the one thing you do learn in sales and this is probably why i see through politics more than most people do is you learn that if you know like if if i'm in the business if i'm selling you a car and there's a process we have to go through there's the financing you know and there's there's a whole thing even even during the sale like if i sell certain services there's sometimes where the buyer starts to get off track and go is this really my identity and you as a salesperson have to go back and bang that button to remind them as to why they made that buying decision again right and then they're like oh oh yeah that's the hot button

right there yeah and now i remember i do that. And when I do long-term contracts, long-term sales relationships with people, there's a lot of times where as a salesperson, I have to be really good at getting back to that. Otherwise, the sale can go off track or they go find somebody else or they decide, hey, I want to do this anymore. And you're like, well, all right, yeah,

there goes the thing. You know, I think some of my longest customers for our companies back in the day were until we shut them down. Like we had some of the same clients for 13 years. With my social media business, I've had the same clients for up to eight years. And part of through that whole process is sometimes you have to go back and you have to hit that button. As a marketer, you have to know what that button is and remember what their hot button is so you can realign and resubmit that sale and keep helping them accomplish what they do.

Because it is interesting how people do forget what they're, why did I do this in the first place? Yeah, they get distracted. I think you've identified something very interesting, which is when a sales goes sideways, there's been a disconnect from the right guy. Yeah. It's kind of how my relationships work. After a while of not having sex, I'd be like, why am I here? And then the girlfriend would be like, I should probably service that accessory.

And then you get serviced, you're like, oh, this is why I'm here. And when your identity is in alignment, then it's easy to make those decisions. So we should probably wrap up the show because they're going on forever, but we've got to have you back, Mark. We should probably do a show at a thing. And when we have you back, we'll

do that segment of the show we discussed pre-show about what's in people's background. Oh, yeah. at a thing. And when we have you back, we'll do that segment of the show we discussed pre-show about what's in people's background. Oh, yeah. Because you have a very interesting thing going back there. That's probably a whole hour or two. Oh, yeah. So, listen, what we talked about before the show is Chris says,

what's that stuff behind you? What's that stuff behind you segment of the podcast? What the fuck is going on behind you? So I started pulling out weird shit that means something to me and is not stuff you see every day. I'm going to be dating on Friday nights. So that's a teaser for the next show with Mark Smith.

Be sure to tune in for that. Mark, give me your plugs one more time so that people can look you up on the interwebby. So probably the coolest thing is if you run a company, come hang out with me. I help executives think like a strategist. So if you want to up-level your mindset, your skill set, and your tool set to run a sustainable, scalable, profitable, and ultimately saleable company, come hang out with me. It's the executivestrategysummit.com.

I do it every four times a year, maybe even more often, but that's really cool stuff. Check me out on LinkedIn, Marks on LinkedIn.com. I'll take you straight to my profile. You'll find me, Mark S.A. Smith. If you don't leave out the S.A., you'll find all kinds of football players and basketball players that have way better social media than I have. That's that is funny. I Googled you and Mark Smith and I came up with a, with a guy who plays basketball and I was like, that's clearly not Mark Smith. Clearly.

Especially African American. And you're clearly. Yeah. I'm a white guy. You're clearly a white guy. The basketball star seemed like he might be more interesting because he could tell me about how to play basketball. But you were here, so that we may do.

So everyone check out Mark. I follow him on Facebook. He's a great guy. He posts a lot of intelligence stuff, unlike me. So that's why I like following him because he makes me feel better about my identity. Yeah, Mark's on FB.com. Mark's on Twitter.com. I surround myself with people smarter than me

so that I think I'm smart. Well, you know, that's really a great thing to do because if you're the smartest person in the room, you need to change rooms. That or you need to, you know, go see a psychiatrist about your nihilistic narcissism. Order a drink. Yeah, go see a fucking drink.

That should be how that joke ends when it comes down to it. Anyway, for those of you, be sure to check out Mark, of course, and appreciate him coming by the show. Appreciate you guys as an audience for tuning in. Hopefully you've been entertained this far. I think you have. If not, see a psychiatrist. You can find me on Bumble and Tinder and Match.com.

You won't find me on eHarmony because I failed the test over there clearly if you've been listening to the show you know I did anyway thanks for tuning in guys we certainly appreciate you be sure to show further show to your friends Jesus Christ if you listen this far you know where to find it it's on Spotify and iTunes and Google Play

thanks for tuning in everyone we'll see you next time