The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast 238 Mark Thomas Of ZenSports.com

Episode Date: November 17, 2018

Mark Thomas Of ZenSports.com

Hi, folks. Chris Voss here from thechrissvossshow.com, thechrissvossshow.com. Hey, coming here with another great podcast. We certainly appreciate you guys tuning in. And as always, we have some of the greatest guests and content on The Chris Voss Show. Be sure to refer your friends, neighbors, relatives to the show. Tell them to go to Spotify, iTunes, Google Play, and YouTube.com forward slash Chris Voss. Hit that bell notification button.

You can get all the notifications of all the cool stuff we're doing. And of course, all the cool products we're reviewing for Christmas. Those are always good to know about. And Rocky Raccoon or Husky. So we've got a wonderful guest today with some amazing technology in the field of cryptocurrency and token sales and all those sort of other stuff, gambling, et cetera, et cetera. His name is Mark Thomas. He is the co-founder and CEO.

He's a serial entrepreneur with experience founding tech startups and other companies. Most recently, he was the co-founder and CEO of Rezio, a VC angel-backed startup within the real estate technology field. It was acquired by Realtor.com in September of 2015. He also founded a recruiting agency called Thomas Executive Resources that was acquired in 2008. And he's owned a real estate investment company since 2004 called Mark Thomas Realty Holdings. Welcome to the show, Mark. How are you? I'm great. Thanks so much for having me, Chris. I appreciate it. Thanks for being on. So give us a plug of what the website is that you're running now and creating

and punching out here. Absolutely. So I recently co-founded a mobile app called Zen Sports. You can download the mobile app from the Google Play Store or the Apple App Store. And it's a really cool peer-to-peer sports betting platform where anybody can come in, create any kind of sports bet that they want with their own odds and their own terms and any other details that they want. And then others in the marketplace within the app accept those bets. And so we actually are not a bookmaker. Uh, we don't have a bookmaker within the app. It's, uh, just regular people coming in, creating bets with each other. Um, and then our system matching those folks up, uh, and ensuring that, um, all bets are legitimate, uh, paid for locked in the contract, uh, et cetera. And, uh, to facilitate a lot of that and make things even smoother than what I just described

might be, we are actually launching our own cryptocurrency token next month that we're currently selling as part of a token sale. And then we're integrating that cryptocurrency token, along with some other what are called smart contracts to just further decentralize and create trust within the system in Q1 of 2019. So it's a really great, again, peer-to-peer network of people coming together, placing and making and taking bets with each other without the need for a centralized bookmaker. So people can feel like they're a lot more in control of their betting and it's a lot more social and a lot more fun. Yeah. And I noticed on your website on your website it talks about how you know one of the problems is when you work with gambling sites the bookmakers you know they make the odds in their favor and and sometimes you can

end up with uh bookmakers on the internet that maybe aren't uh the most aren't the most uh scrupulous or unscrupulous um and so your peer-to-peer basis makes it so you can place your own bet, control your own, I guess, odds making and how you want to do stuff. And then it's peer-to-peer. So you can either accept other people's place bets that they want to take in post or you can take and create your own and away you go. Yeah, exactly. So it really puts bettors back in control so that they don't feel like they're betting against a bookmaker that has stacked the odds against them. And that's really the reality of most bookmakers. They're stacking the odds against you because they only make money when you lose. So they're always going to stack the odds in their favor. Their fees are generally

somewhere around 9% or 10%, which are pretty unfavorable. I mean, it takes a big cut of any winnings that you might have. And then as you mentioned, if you're betting with offshore online sports books, there's a whole trust issue, the trust issue that when you deposit funds, they'll actually deposit the funds that they'll actually pay you out when it's time to pay you out your winnings. And then of course, there's, there's time delays and other issues with getting money into, you know, offshore online sports books. So with us, again, part of the whole aspect of using cryptocurrencies and smart contracts is it completely has built what's called a trustless system where you don't have to worry about trusting anybody

because it's all happening automatically. We are accepting traditional fiat like dollars as well, but people have the choice to use cryptocurrency tokens. So if they don't want to have to worry about that trust issue, they can they can use crypto, which is pretty cool. And you're doing a token round taken to do an ICO for for this sort of thing where you're you're making it so people can use their own tokens on your system. Correct. So we're actually launching our own token. It's called Sport. Hopefully that's kind of obvious. And yeah, so we're launching our own cryptocurrency token again next month.

And then we're selling it as part of an ICO token sale from now through January 5th. So people can purchase the token right now at a pretty significant discount over what they'll be able to purchase it after January 5th when we eventually hit the exchanges. So definitely, you know, a deep incentive right now for people to purchase it now so that when when we do integrate it in January and February, they'll be able to use it for betting. And then we eventually will list sport tokens on the cryptocurrency exchanges to trade, buy, and sell. And of course, the reality is that usually most ICOs, the token price is a significant discount over what you might get on the exchanges. So there's definitely some incentives

for people to get in under the current token sale that we're doing versus waiting until next year. So it's a great way to get a pre- the current token sale that we're doing versus waiting uh until next year so it's a great way to get a pre-advanced thing get in on the ground floor grab some low prices for the tokens and then when they go up um are you guys the first peer-to-peer uh gaming gambling network i mean there's well i'm going to focus on sports betting just because that's all we're focused on there are some other online casinos that are doing some peer-to-peer stuff especially in the poker side but for sports betting I mean really all you have out there is betfair and even that is not truly peer-to-peer there's still betfair still gets in the middle of a lot of bets and they get in the middle of a lot of

handling of results and whatnot we are truly peer-to-peer in the sense that not only are we never making or taking bets, but we also let bettors submit their own results. And we've built this really unique and very effective penalty and reward and voting system that ensures and guarantees that all bet results will be submitted correctly without us having to do it at all. So we are truly, definitely in my opinion, but a lot of other people's opinion, the only true peer-to-peer network where there's no bookmaker or anybody getting in the middle of any bets at all. Now, in a place like Bet, does it get held and somebody accepts it,

does it get held in some sort of escrow account, or is it just a trust that at the end of the day, at the end of the bet at the end of the bet they'll be the money pulled from the wallet no we we handle all of all of that automatically so when you create a bet uh we deduct the amount of the bet from your wallet uh including fees and then when a taker accepts that that same thing we deduct uh the amount of their bets from their wallet as well and that guarantees that the winning side will get paid no matter what uh so no issues that you can get paid uh which is always a pretty nice thing right um and then um yeah so everything is 100 guaranteed and that's also we're we're building um as i mentioned before some smart contracts that

even automate that uh even further further and continue to build trust. And what that does is it actually allows you to go on to what's called the blockchain to even verify the bets and the bet results as well. So in addition to guaranteeing that you're getting paid, you can also verifiably go and view pretty much every single bet that went through the system and what the results of those were. That's pretty awesome. That's pretty brilliant, too.

Yeah, I'd hate to, you know, you win some big bet and then the other guy doesn't pay out. So there. Now, you have some passive income on your website, too. What is that about? Right. So because we've created our own cryptocurrency token and we're actually doing this as what's called a security token

versus a utility token. And we're actually doing this as what's called a security token versus a utility token. So a security token means that we're actually registering this token with the United States SEC, Security Exchange Commission, so that all token holders are security holders in our business. And so what we're actually doing is we're taking the fees that the platform earns because we do charge a fee for making or taking a bet. But it's a lot less than traditional bookmaker. We take the fees that we earn and we actually remit them back as dividends every single month to token holders. So you can essentially, if you own our tokens, let's say you never even place a bet, you can still earn money from our platform just by holding onto the tokens. And so of course the incentive is the more tokens you own, the more you'll get paid because we pay the dividends on a pro rata based on how many tokens you own. So if you own 1% of all the

tokens out there, you'll get 1% of all the betting fees that the platform earns back to you as a monthly dividend every month. So basically it's almost like owning stock in the company then. It exactly is um so while there aren't technically voting rights necessarily like you might get with stock um pretty much most other security um instrument rights that you would have in owning any other kind of again security instruments with any other company you're getting those same benefits by owning our token wow that's pretty amazing that's pretty amazing. That's pretty amazing. And it gives you a whole lot of room to take and,

you know, earn money, earn extra money, do extra stuff and away you go. Right, and it really allows you to, you know, kind of believe in the platform. So, you know, if you're using the platform and loving it, you know, you'll want to share that with others, which, you know, if you own the tokens and you're getting a percentage of other people's fees

you're gonna obviously want to spread the word and let other people know about it so you know it's also it's also great for marketing on to get the word out there and to just continue to grow the marketplace and make it even bigger and better I probably walk around Vegas and let people know about it make me some extra money huh that works too and i just walk around the casino and tap on people and be like hey i got something better for you check this out and it's on your phone so you can just say hey here it is download it download the app from your phone um it's really easy for them to do um and we are well we don't have this right now but we are going to also add some uh referral bonus

programs so we'll give you and other people for for example, like a unique link that you can share out. And then anybody that downloads the app and deposits money from that link, you'll get an added bonus. So we're going to do that. Yeah. In addition to the dividend income, we also want to make it easy for you to refer others to sign up and use the app. That's pretty awesome. You guys have really thought of everything with this setup. Not about everything, but we like to think that we've, you know,

kind of checked off all the boxes. And I think the thing is that's really important here is that from the core structure of doing this as a peer-to-peer marketplace, that we really want to create a unique offering compared to what people are getting right now with traditional sports books. We just feel that traditional sports books, both land-based as well as online offshore, are very painful and have a lot of painful aspects to them. And we think by doing it the way that we're doing it, mobile, peer-to-peer, again, giving people the option to hold and bet with crypto, the smart contracts, and of course, the passive income.

We feel we just give people a lot of reasons to say, no, there's no reason for me to keep doing it the way I've been doing it. Let's go try this new way because it's a lot better experience. Most definitely. And so pretty brilliant. You guys got a lot of good investors. Looks like a lot of good team behind you. Micro Adventures, Stephen Fan, Jeremy Gardner, Icon. So good people that are really supporting you guys in what you're doing.

And then I guess there's a token sale going on or the pre-sales are now through November 30th. And then the public sale dates are between December 1st and January 5th. That's correct. So the difference between the pre-sale and the public sale is more or less just kind of the personalized aspect of making the investment. So in the pre-sale, they're basically working directly with me and we're customizing the token documents towards them and what they need. Whereas the public sale, that's a little bit more of a free for all where everyone is just, it's basically like crowdfunding where everyone has the ability to submit a few dollars. I think the minimum investment we're doing is 25 with no maximum.

So you can come in, place a small bet. You know, if you are not that savvy about cryptocurrency or token sales and still get a stake in our business. Of course, if you're more savvy investor and you want to put in more, we'd love to have that as well. And there's an automated system for doing that through the public sale where they basically send their own money to our wallet address. And then we in turn send them the support tokens. So, but the bottom line is, is the token sales going on until January 5th. So anybody that's interested can get in from now until then. Nice. So it's pretty much open to everyone and all that good stuff.

And, yeah, you can just rock and roll. And so I can bet pretty much anything based on sports because I'm creating my own bet, right? So if I'm a big football fan that's international football, the soccer kind of football, or if I want to bet on NFL or basketball, I can take and do that as well? Yeah, so right now we have six sports in our app, the NFL, NBA, NHL, Major League Baseball, about 10 different international football soccer leagues that you just mentioned, and then the PGA.

But we're going to be adding another 10 to 15 sports over the next few months. But we basically allow you to go through your own customized flow. You can choose any player from all those leagues and create a player bet. So if you want to choose such and such players are going to win the MVP or they're going to have such and such number of technical fouls in the next NBA game, you can do that. Or if you want to choose a team that, of course, you know, over under plus minus, you know, straight up wins and losses. Will they make the playoffs? Not. I mean, it's very, very customizable, but it's an easy flow. So you're not left to the wolves to try and figure it out. It's a four-step process. It takes me about 30 seconds to create a

bet. And then of course, you can choose the amount that you want to bet and what your payout will be, which will set the odds for that as well. So it's very customizable, yet very easy to use. Basically makes you your own bookmaker. Yeah, I mean, it's true. You really, you can control. Bookmaker, this is definitely their thing. Well, you know, we expect that we will get some sharps that want to use the platform. So it's, you know, we're that we will get some some sharps that want to use the platform so it's you know we're not controlling who gets to use it and not in fact if anything that's one of the things that we pride ourselves on there are actually a lot of traditional sports books including some in the land-based casinos that have banned certain bettors because they've won

too much and that we just feel is just wrong um you know if if you're, if you're doing well, like, I mean, you should be able to continue to do well. And it's up to people to decide what bets they want to accept and what they don't. So we want it to be a very merit, merit, merit, meritocracy in terms of how people get to create and accept bets. So we're not banning anybody. You can be as successful or as unsuccessful as you want and come in and have fun for just a few bucks. The minimum bet's only a dollar.

So you can come in and bet a very low amount. Or if you want to be more of a high roller and bet more, you're welcome to do that as well. Well, yeah, where gaming is more of a gaming sports betting is a little bit more more skill based than just throwing your money in a slot machine. I'm sure it makes a difference. I mean, I live here in Vegas. There are people that when they go on winning streaks, the casino will ask you to leave. They're just running too hot and they can't figure out why they can't make it. Right. And we don't care about that. So we, you know, so the way our fee structured work is we charge 2% to those that create or make bets because they're providing the liquidity to the marketplace.

And then we charge 4% fee to takers who take bets. But we don't care who wins or loses. Anybody can come in and do it. And we're very agnostic to who's using our app. We just want a lot of people in there excited and using it as much as possible. That's pretty brilliant to give the guys who are making a market for you guys a discount so that you have some incentive to take and do that and you know you help your ecosystem grow and be active exactly

exactly so um that's why we have that fee structure in place to uh to incentivize the makers to create the vets Yeah, definitely. Definitely. So what other things do we need to know about what you guys are launching and how you guys are doing it here? What was that? What else do we need to know about what you guys are launching and what you're up to here? Well,

I think, I think the thing is, that's really cool. You know, obviously in addition to all the cryptocurrency and smart contracts and blockchain stuff I mentioned, I know that, I know that 95% of the world is still, you know, not even,

doesn't really have any kind of knowledge at all with regards to what crypto is or blockchain. And that's fine. We don't expect everyone to get to speed. And that's also why our platform accepts traditional currency so that, you know, if you want to just continue to use, you know, dollars or whatever your native currency is, that is totally acceptable, 100%. But I think it is really exciting what we're doing. I'm most excited about what we're doing on the smart contract side. Because as I mentioned before, what that does is it's not even just the technology being housed within our platform or within our servers.

It's actually something that's on the public, again, blockchain, which is a public ledger where anybody can go in and verify everything. I think that's one of the things I'm most excited about. I think one of the other things I'm very excited about is the social aspect of what we're doing. So for example, right now, when you create a bet or you win a bet, you can share that with those in your network within our app. So we've actually built a Facebook style kind of platform where you can invite your Facebook friends in, follow them, build an actual community around similar interests that you have sports-wise or betting-wise within our app. And you can interact with those folks within our app as well.

So it's not just this static loner by yourself type of, oh, I'm going to place a bet and then I'm done. There's actual genuine social components to it to make it a lot more interactive, a lot more fun. If you want to be anonymous and you don't want any of that, that's fine too. But I think that's one of the other cool things that over the next six to 12 to 18 months that you're going to see a big kind of explosion in within our app is just the fact that people can be very social about it. And that I think is key to garnering more, you know, society-wide acceptance where people can come in and say, oh yeah, this is fun.

I can throw 25 bucks. This isn't some, you know, kind of vice that, you know, is only for degenerates. It's actually fun social activity that you can have fun with your friends. You can create pools with your friends. You can share bets with your friends, with your coworkers and whatnot.

So I think that's a big key, like long-term strategy and vision that we definitely have with Zen Sports. Yeah, and then of course you can own tokens and get a portion of the returns on investment that you guys are taking with passive income. Yep, exactly. 100%

I think there's a lot of different options now it says right now you're still working on the contracts uh for the bidding platform to be available it's outside right now the united states canada and europe so if i live in the united states i can't place bet yet is that correct not yet so we are even though we're looking to be decentralized which means we're not getting in the middle of a lot of aspects of our platform, we are looking to still play by the rules. And so in the U.S. and Europe, where the rules are the most stringent, we are looking to get licensed in both jurisdictions. So in Europe, we're currently working on gaming licenses over there. And then in the U S so as most people know, the U S Supreme court may struck down PAPSA, which allows states to now legalize sports betting.

So six states have legalized sports betting. Another 15 have legislation in the works. And then another four are about to put legislation into the work. So pretty much half the country is probably going to have legalized sports betting in the next six to 12 months. And our thoughts are that, you know, the entire country will have it in the next three to four years. So, you know, we want to, we, again, play by the rules here to get licenses in the states that require it. So we definitely will have offerings here in the US, I would say probably give it six to nine months and

we will definitely be able to offer Zen sports in the states that have legalized sports betting and then you'll also I mean I can invest in the tokens though now can I yeah so you don't need to be outside the US right now to invest in the token so you can purchase the tokens as part of our token sale even without being even if you are domiciled here in the United States. So that's just for the betting platform. But you can still buy tokens, earn passive income, and basically participate in the company's future, even prior to the betting features being allowed here in the United States.

And if I live in America, I can download the app, so I just can't play on them? So, yes. So the way this works is as follows. We do a couple of verification checks to see where you're located. And so if you download the app right now from the United States or Europe, what you're actually going to see is a prior iteration of our company. Prior to launching our sports betting, we actually were a recreational sports app to help people meet up to play sports for money.

So that is skill-based and that is legal everywhere without any licenses. So anyone in the US or Europe that downloads our app, they will see only those features where they can meet up to play sports for money. They won't be able to see the features for traditional sports betting like we talked about before. If you're outside the US or Europe, when you download it, you'll see both. You'll see the ability to bet on traditional sports um you know nfl soccer etc um as well as the ability to meet up and play sports for money nice nice so you can get involved in awesome ways to check it out get on the ground for the token sale uh be able to take advantage of that and uh as it booms and successes i mean you guys got a great investor team looks like

behind you so uh i think you guys are definitely going to go some great places and looks like you've got this designed out quite well in uh in how you have it yeah i'd actually like to comment on that so we're really product people at heart and uh you know if you look a lot of blockchain and crypto projects um i won't name any names, but they've created a token or they've created a protocol and there's no real product behind it. There's no easy way to access it. There's no good user interface. It's very cumbersome if they even have a product at all. We took the exact opposite approach. We created our product first and created this really nice, beautiful, clean experience that you can access from your phone. again, iOS or Android. And then secondly, we're integrating cryptocurrency

and blockchain after that, right? So what that does is it gives everyone a really clean, easy-to-use experience for using the product. But then the cryptocurrency and blockchain layer comes in second. So we're not trying to just be techies and just do something that only geeks are going to like. We actually created something that everybody likes. And then we're adding this, you know, the crypto and blockchain aspect to just make things even more efficient after that.

And you guys also, geez, you pay out pretty good if people refer people to the system and all that sort of good stuff. Yeah. So we currently right now, as part of the token sale, we are currently doing what's called airdrops, bounties, and referrals. So airdrops and bounties are we are just airdropping. We're just giving away tokens up to a certain amount for users who join our Telegram group and tweet and send a Facebook post about us. And then we also have a referral program in place.

So anybody that refers others into our social network groups and also refers other potential investors, we're paying a referral bonus for all of those referrals as well. And all of those airdrops, bounties, and referrals are in the form of our token. So you can actually get and earn free tokens without having to invest a penny in us just by participating in some of the programs that we have going on right now. Awesome, Sauce. Yeah, I'm looking at the referral page. You can get signed up and earn tokens.

So there you can get stuff for free just by referring stuff. You don't have to buy tokens. Or you can invest in the token sale if you want. Exactly. Yep. So definitely. Awesome. Well, it sounds like a great program.

I like the idea of being in control. Anytime I've come across some of these overseas gambling sites, you're always kind of like, oh, Zimbabwe, I'm from there. Right. It's sketchy. It's sketchy. You're like, is my money going to some, who knows where it's going you know whatever and they want

you to send a wire transfer which you can't get back right yeah wire your money to uh yeah access to your bank account that sort of thing and here's the other problem too there's one big problem we didn't talk about that is actually very important that we're solving for so if you you don't want your money to have one of those offline offshore sports books, and you want to use a credit card, which you could charge back if let's say they don't actually deposit your funds. One of the big sticking points with credit cards is most banks will decline those transactions. Like if you want to deposit money via your capital loan or chase card or whatever, those banks are just going to decline them because they don't want to send money to sportsbooks or to gambling websites.

And so that's one of the things that the cryptocurrency token solves for, is it removes the declination that banks will decline those charges. And also, even if they do approve those charges, it'll take one to five days for that money to get in there. With cryptocurrency tokens, it's instantaneous. So the money's in there instantaneously. You don't need anyone's approval to get it in there. It's 100% trustworthy because it's all in the blockchain. So you don't have to worry about someone running off of your funds. And so we remove a lot of those just

kind of friction issues that happen with trying to deposit money or get money out. Same thing. When you want to get money out, it's instantaneous. You don't have to worry about how long it takes or declining transactions or anything like that. So I think that's really another critical aspect to what we're doing is it removes all that big brother aspect that banks say, no, you can't do that. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds awesome, man. Sounds great. Anything lastly we need to wrap up to tell people about what you guys are doing or we covered everything? I mean, I think we've covered everything.

I think the one, you know, just time sensitive thing is for those that are interested in getting the token sale. You know, it's going on for less than another two months now. So definitely don't delay with the minimum only being 25 bucks. You know, there's not a lot to lose. So if you feel like, for example, like you would see yourself betting 100 bucks, you know, why not buy $100 worth of tokens? Because you can use that within the platform to bet on and in addition get an investment out of it. So I think that's the thing that

I would definitely encourage people to really take a look at. And of course, we love for people to download the app and check it out and let us know what they think. This is pretty interesting, you guys even have your own Discord group going on. Looks like it has about 200 people in it right now. Yeah, we got like over 4,500 people in our Telegram,

a couple thousand people in our Discord, a couple thousand Twitter followers, like 4,000 Facebook followers. And actually that's really just been mostly in the last month that we've gained all that just as we started telling people about the product. So there's been a big uptick in just people being excited about what we're building and what we have built already and what we're continuing to build. Because that's what they want. This is this is the future of sports betting, they want peer to peer, they want easier

to use technologies like mobile apps and whatnot. And of course, the crypto and blockchain aspect is a is another layer that just makes it that much more attractive. So I think this is the future. People want to bet from their phones. They want to do it while they're watching a game. They want to do it either anonymously or with their friends. And they don't want to deal with driving to a land-based casino or trying to go with some sketchy offshore sports book. Yeah. That's cool that you guys have a Discord app. I've been using Discord to build communities for myself in the last, uh, I think three months now or something.

I've built a huge discord server. I think it's almost to a thousand people now for gaming, uh, not for your kind of gaming, but for, uh, online, uh,

PS4, Xbox, PC gaming, uh, for the destiny, uh, platform for the game from Bungie. Uh, and of course we're building on the platforms for other games out there, for the Destiny platform for the game from Bungie.

And of course, we're building other platforms for other games out there. But it's amazing how much that Discord can act as a great community builder and interact. I like it so much better than Facebook groups or other things. So it's really cool you guys have got one of those. Yeah, I think Facebook and Twitter have done okay with sharing public information, but they are not great for conversation. And so I think Discord and Twitter have done okay with like sharing public information, but they are not great for conversation.

Um, and so I think discord and telegram both, um, I think they both kind of have their advantages and disadvantages, but I think discord and telegram have done a really great job of enabling easy, quick conversation with a, uh,

like-minded community, um, that some of the other social networks just really haven't hit on yet. Yeah. That's really cool. That's really cool. 4,500 people in your telegram. Holy shit. really haven't hit on yet. Yeah. That's really cool. That's really cool. 4,500 people on your Telegram. Holy shit.

This thing's going to rock. Yeah. That's like literally since I think maybe October 1st at the most. Cool. It's growing fast. That's awesome. All right, bud.

Well, we appreciate you being on the show. Give us your plugs one last time so people can go look them up on the web. Sure. So the company again is Zen Sports. That's all one word, Z as in zebra, E-N-S-P-O-R-T-S. You can search for that in the App Store or the Play Store and then download the app directly.

If you want to go check out more information about our product or our company or our token sale, you can do that on our website, which is very easy. It's zensports, again, all one word,.com. And if you're interested in investing, you can email me directly, mark, M-A-R-K, at zensports.com. Or there's an investor form on our website that you can fill out. And that's also on our website where you can join all of our Discord,

Telegram, and other groups as well. Thank you, Chris, for having me. Yeah, thank you for coming on the show. I'm going to check out this referral program and check out the Telegram. I just joined the Discord, so I'm going to check that out as well. But yeah, so you guys got some good resources.

It looks like this thing's going to rock and roll, so this should be a great opportunity. Yeah, we're very, very excited. All right, well, thank you to my audience for tuning in. We certainly appreciate you guys. Be sure to give us a like, subscribe to us on YouTube, hit that bell notification. If you get a chance, write a referral

or write a letter of appreciation, if you will, on iTunes saying how much you like the podcast, all that sort of good stuff. Be sure to refer it to your friends, neighbors, relatives. Invite them to the show at Spotify, iTunes, and Google Play. You can, of course, find it there as well

on just about any podcast app, we appreciate our audience for tuning in. Thanks to Mark Thomas for coming by. Be sure to check out his website and we'll see you guys next time.