The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – 5-Star Career: Define and Build Yours Using the Science of Quality Management by Penelope Przekop

Episode Date: November 21, 2021

5-Star Career: Define and Build Yours Using the Science of Quality Management by Penelope Przekop Industries across the globe manufacture products and provide services that you deem 5-star worthy; their goal is to satisfy your needs and desires. They follow the proven science of quality management to make that happen because it is common sense, and its effectiveness is irrefutable. 5-Star Career: Define and Build Yours Using the Science of Quality Management provides common-sense, strategic context for personally implementing quality concepts that reflect your goals as well as your own definition of a 5-star life and career. This book provides the following benefits: Explains how the science of quality management can ensure customer satisfaction, which is what industry uses to gauge the quality of products and services. Relates that explanation to you on a personal level including how the basic concepts and components of the science apply to your career/job, the path it has taken, and can take. Challenges you to identify your authentic needs and desires following the thorough process, research methodology, and data analysis corporations rely on to understand their customers. It tells you how to do all of that, and provides a unique tool to help you gather and analyze the right type of data and information. Clarifies the critical role that controlled systems and processes play in the science of quality management, the role they play in the personal application of quality management, and their surprising power to ensure intended outcomes. Explains how to apply the proven decision-making methodology (used by industry) to identify the best possible process that leads to the career you deem as 5-star worthy, and to address the career elements that will satisfy your authentic needs and desires. Relays how risk-based decision-making is key not only to identifying a process that ensures success but also to addressing the unexpected curveballs that will surely come your way. Penelope Przekop built a 30-year career around the science of quality management while struggling to overcome the uniquely disturbing childhood she shared with her brother. Along the way, she internalized the science used to build quality into products and services and discovered how it can be personally applied to build and manage not only the quality of a career but also the quality of a life.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. Chris Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Thechrisvossshow.com.

Hey, we're coming to you with another great podcast. We certainly appreciate you guys tuning in. Thanks for being here. Be sure to go to youtube.com forward slash Chris Voss. Hit that bell notification button. Go to goodreads.com forward slash Chris Voss. You can see all the different books and reviews and everything we're reading

and reviewing over there, basically. You can go to all of our groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, you name it, TikTok. There's just so many of them. There's five Facebook groups this is going out to right now alone. Check that out. Also, check out our new newsletter that we have on LinkedIn. We got that thing a week ago. I think it has like 2,500, no, 2,700 now subscribers.

And it grows like 100 every day. It's pretty freaking awesome. So anyway, guys, check that out as well. Today we have an amazing author on the show. She's the author of six different books. And she's prolific. I wish I knew how to get to six. I'm like two.

I'm just trying to catch up here. Penelope Prescott. She is the author of the new book that has just come out and it is called, if I can get this on my screen properly, five star career. And you can order this up wherever fine bookstores are sold. She is a corporate quality management expert, entrepreneur, and writer. Throughout her 30-plus career, she has worked with numerous Fortune 100 pharma companies,

including Pfizer, Merck, Lilly, GlaxoSmithKline, and held leadership positions at Novartis, Covenants, Wyeth, Johnson & Johnson. She is the founder and CEO of PDC Pharma Strategy and serves as chief compliance officer for NGRAIL Therapeutics. She is the author of several books, as we mentioned before. Welcome to the show, Penelope. How are you? Good. Thank you. Hi. I'm happy to be here. Sounds like you're taking over the world. We're trying to. With all your outlets. Well, we're trying to. Great. Sometimes I can't even keep track

of all the groups. I'm like, where are all the groups at? It's a lot to do. It has something to do with something. So did your book, I was looking for the date on Amazon for when your book came out. Is it out yet or is it? Yes, it came out on November 9th. Okay, there you go.

So congratulations on the book. That's important. So give us your plug so people can find you on the interwebs. Sure. So my website is my name, penelopeprescott.com. Essentially, anywhere you want to find me, you can just put my name in and I'll be likely to pop up because my name is very unusual. So I am on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Goodreads. I think that's it. Did I miss anything? Pinterest. Pinterest. I usually figure out how to decorate

my house on Pinterest. Pinterest is a great search engine. I like it. If you have anything you should put on there for search effect, I got to go upload some stuff over there. Welcome to the show. What motivated you want to write this book? I'll just cut to the chase. So I grew up in a difficult home and basically really struggled growing up. Attempted suicide at 19, was an unwed mother at 21, just didn't have the toolkit. Meanwhile, I continued my education. I went into the pharma industry and I learned about this science, the science of quality management. And I fell into that area, found that I liked the quality area. And I actually learned about quality management at a conference that was focused on manufacturing, which I wasn't doing

at the time in the pharmaceutical industry. And from that point on, I was very interested in it, got a master's degree in quality systems, have implemented the concepts throughout my career, and industries changed. Lo and behold, as I was doing all that and really trying to overcome all these things I struggled with as a kid, I realized, hey, these concepts make sense. It's based on science. Why are people not talking about this in terms of applying it to your personal life? So that's where the idea for the book got started. It was a long time coming. And there you go.

There you go. Awesome. Give us an arcing overview of the book so that people can get kind of an idea of the encapsulation from a bird's eye view. Sure. So the book is, of course, called Five Star Career. It sounds like a business book and it is. It's about your career, but it's very much about you, right? So you in your career and how much it satisfies you. And so the book starts out talking about quality management in terms of

the five star rating program. We all are rating everything. We have to rate Chris's show five stars. So anyways, so that really comes from quality management. And so it's really in our cultural faith, so to speak. So I talk about that, give a background, a little bit background on quality management and how it's used in industry. And then it really goes into

how can we apply this personally to our lives and specifically our career. But it really ties in with life in general in terms of what do you really want from a career? Yeah. But think how much time you spend doing your career. That's a lot of your life, right? So you should enjoy it. It should satisfy you. So it really applies the science to how you can figure out either why it doesn't or how it can more or how you can manage what's happening. So it's really powerful science. I don't think anybody's applied it this way. So are you the one who gives yourself the stars or are you asking other people to give you stars? No. So I go through that because

a lot of people think, oh, I get rated at work. And most people are not really actually crazy about that system, but it exists. So yeah, we don't tend to rate. We do tend to rate our lives. We could say, oh, I'm a big zero or I feel like a five today. Whatever. We might. We might not use those words, but, and we don't, nobody wants to rate each other. We're not doing that. Okay. So really what it means, and I explain this in the book is quality is defined by customer satisfaction, right? So a company can make a fantastic product that they love and put it on the shelf. And if nobody really needs it or it doesn't satisfy them, they're not going to sell it. Okay. So it depends on the customer.

So if you view yourself as the customer and your product is this career you want, you want to identify that, define it and build it so that you yourself know it's, you know, five stars. You're not going to actually jot that down, but you are fully satisfied. So you personally would give it a five-star career, not your mother or your husband or your grandma. It's you, right? Yeah. I think there's some people in your life you can't ever make happy. I think it's like half the people on my social media. It depends on which political side they're on. But yeah, I wouldn't want them giving me stars or something because they'd be like, yeah, you're like this and I don't. Right. So the whole point is just not that people don't matter. Of course they do. It's time for you

to own your own life and say, this is what I want. And I know what to, I know what five stars means to me and I'm going to go after that. And not to, of course, you're not going to hurt anybody or do anything crazy, but just as a authentic person. And then, so how do we be accountable in reality? Because I know a lot of people that they, they, they're basically high on their own supply where they're like, I'm the greatest there is. It's a little bit of narcissistic. How do we make sure that we're accountable as to, are we really five stars and maybe we need to work at it a little bit? How do we do that? That's tricky. And as I mentioned, it's taken me years to get through this process. And that's why I'm so excited because I'm hoping what I went through, maybe someone else can pick it up and say, oh, this makes a lot of sense and get there faster.

But it's true. In the book, I really actually go through about eight chapters of just talking about mindset and what quality means and being honest with yourself. And also, for example, in industry, the science is data driven, right? You know that thing about if you put, you know, the science is data driven, right? You know that thing about if you put, you know, crap in or garbage in, you're going to get garbage out. So it's the same thing when you apply it to yourself. If you're going to lie to yourself and not face certain things or have blind spots, then you're not going to get any value out of this approach. So I talk a lot about that, how it's not easy. For some it is, for some it's not. And I go through a lot of examples and ways that you

can just really challenge yourself and say, am I really being honest with myself? And I can't fix things for people, but I can maybe give you an approach that you can use. And you have to be dedicated, just like companies. They have to be dedicated to quality. Now, you talk about how we're both the customer who wants a quality career and the only person with the power to manufacture it. So we're on both sides of the table? Yes. So there's several concepts in the book. They seem counterintuitive.

But once you wrap your mind around them, it's, Oh, and this is what happened for me. So in the science quality management, for example, when you're, when a company is manufacturing a product, they go really great companies go spend millions of dollars into figuring out

what their customer wants. And then they're going to then spend the second million producing that following this science. So there are lots of companies, people who need a product and they know what they want and they create it. So they're essentially the customer and the manufacturer. So this is what people can do. Once you know what you want and it's ever changing. And I talk about that, it's

not like you're locking yourself in. But once you have the specifications, and you know what you want, if you follow this sort of science, these concepts in the science, thinking of yourself as manufacturing it, you're responsible. So it doesn't mean you don't need other people. But your chances of getting what you want dramatically increase when you are making decisions based on what is within your scope of control. And that is what companies do. Darn it. So this doesn't sound like a process where I can blame other employees at the company of my own, my personal internal company, where I can be like, it's Bob's fault that the thing went off the rails. Right.

That's one of the biggest things that struck me. It's okay at work when we have to do what's called a CAPA. There's a problem and you have to write a corrective action. I've been in this industry for 30 years. And from the very beginning, nobody questioned the whole idea. You were told, no, you can't say it's the other department's fault, or you can't say Johnny screwed up or whatever. You just can't. And everybody accepts that. And even if somebody did screw up, they say, oh, why did he? Is it, what can we do about it?

It's the same kind of thinking that gives us a lot of power in our lives because it may be, it may actually be that somebody did something, but what are you going to do about it? You can't do anything about it. You're going to waste time if you're just sitting there blaming them and then try to change them or something. What if I create multiple personalities and then I can blame them? Is that acceptable under your program? Maybe. You could say.

I'm just kidding. My fourth personality did that. But my fifth personality is going to fix it. My judge says it's the one that always says kill, kill. So we try and avoid that personality. I can't do that anymore, evidently, according to my parole agent. But no, I think this is brilliant because so many people look at things, especially if we're business people, we look at things from that production, manufacturing, customer service part. I don't know. I'm scared to try and adapt to this. I will.

But if I do, I'm worried that I'm going to be returning me most of the time. What it is, too, though, is an industry. And the science tells us how to identify or define what you're going to produce. Then follow certain or develop processes based on what's within your scope. Follow that. But it also covers when something goes wrong, it tells you what to do. It tells you how to evaluate that, look at the root cause, and then how you should make decisions around that. In other words, okay, if the root cause is somebody else, okay, but I can't do anything about that. So what can I do now in this situation,

which is what companies do? Or maybe it is, it's not anybody's fault, but just whatever happened, getting to the root cause and making the decision. Yeah, there you go. The thing is, I like the idea because you'd have to look at, correct me if I'm wrong, but you have to look at yourself and go, what kind of product am I? Would I buy my product? How marketable am I? Is that a correct way to maybe assess and be self-accountable? It is in one way as far as holding yourself accountable for the career or the life that you have right now at this very instant. Mine, yours. It's a product of the process that you've had in your life and all the decisions that you've made.

And if somebody else did something to you, you still had to make a decision following that. This whole thing about life as a process, it's just really not true. When you look at the definition of process, life does not fit that. And I go through that in my book. And so if you really view what you have today or what you have on the last day of your life. How do you want to feel about it? If you don't think you're marketable, it's more looking at, well, okay, do I really want to do what I'm marketing towards? And okay, if you do, then what can you do about it? It's taking responsibility, saying, well, okay. But also asking yourself,

am I not marketable? I go through this whole thing about subjective and objective information and data. Some people think they're not marketable, but they are. So you have to go through, why do I think that? And am I basing this on some kind of negative mindset or this is what my parents told me? And so my book goes through that whole thought process. I think that's awesome. This is a whole paradigm shift at how people should look at themselves because they're actually looking at their career and their lives and their businesses as a business person would and being objective.

You talk in the book about how to strategize for quality or how to define a concrete plan of action. Tell us a little bit about that. I need my quality to go up. Again, you always have to remember, you're going to define what quality is. So if somebody truly, everybody's different, everybody's unique. If somebody truly doesn't care, for example, if they have some kind of job where they sit and read and check boxes every day and they're paid two million dollars. If they're happy, that's wonderful. They have a five star career. But I couldn't do that because I would just go crazy.

I couldn't sit and check boxes all day. So you really have to make sure you're looking at it from who am I? And some people don't know the answer to that question. So who am I? What satisfies me as a very authentic individual? And then that's part of the strategy. Strategize around just like companies do, you know, what are we selling here? Okay, we're going to sell cars, but who are we selling them to? What do those people want? And that's all a strategy. So I talk a lot about that because when I was younger, I don't know why, but I thought strategy was selfish, right? Oh, I'm manipulative or I don't know. I just, that was just a mindset thing, but it's not at all. It's connecting the dots, figuring out what you're going to this because it really is a paradigm shift where people can re-look at how they go for stuff. Is assessing your five-star ability or value based around what's truly going

to make you happy as opposed to what's going to make the world happy? Like you say, maybe a five-star career means something to if you're like a Harvard CEO, Fortune 500 sort of thing, or if you're just someone who's like, I want to do something I love and be happy with it. Exactly. And it could also be applied to whatever you do with a lot of your time, right? It could be you're volunteering or maybe you're just a person who works part-time. What are the things that you're doing with your life here? Because it's going to be over eventually, not to be negative. Wait, wait, what? We only have so much time.

I just got this memo. We don't know. So anyways, the book is written very much for anyone, not executives in the C-suite, although it could apply to them. It's really written to a person reading the book. Who are you? This is what I'm telling you is maybe a useful idea, but I can't tell you what the answer is. But this is something that helped me. I mean, tremendously dramatically. And I felt like I didn't

grow up with the toolkit. That's what I always say. And I didn't have a framework. And as I was doing this work, my whole career, it was just really becoming very personal to me and embedded in my thought process. And I realized that it made a lot of sense. And I was like, why aren't people teaching us this? Everybody talks about quality of life. This is a science to manage quality. So I don't, come on, let's talk about it.

Yeah. And I like how you give basically a way to make data-driven decisions on how to be honest with yourselves. Because one of the things I see in today's world, especially in this dopamine social media thing where we get all our news that doesn't really teach us anything. We just learn. We just validate what we believe or what we think we know. We do the same thing with our friends validate us. And we're like, I must be the greatest person that ever lived because I have 50,000 likes that are telling me I'm so great. And many times we're not, I think I'm always not. And if you're not on that constant thing where you're constantly trying to be honest with yourself, trying to grow, trying to build a better product. I've been going through that for the last, for the last, I think since January or so, or somewhere going through COVID where I

decided I wanted to become a better product of myself. I want to get healthy, go to the gym more. I want to finish my books that I promised I'd written writing for 10 years. And I really started to get more accountable of what was going on. And part of it was, is coronavirus gave me some perspective. And like you just said, I'm 53. I'm in the last three quarters, maybe fourth quarter of my life. And the clock isn't ever green anymore. And I'm going to quit screwing around and get some stuff done. And I like the accountability of this, but also it gives it, because everyone always says, just be accountable. And you're like, what do I do with

that? And you give some really good data-driven ways to take and look at it from an angle that has a perspective of me being a CEO of my companies all my life, I can look at that from, well, what kind of product we got here, buddy? What's going on? Yeah, and one thing I did, too, is I put together this Excel tool, right? I'm not a computer programmer, okay? But I put together this Excel tool that people can download at no, no cost. There's no catch or anything from my website.

And what the way I designed it is you would read up to chapter nine and then chapter nine is called data is king. And I talk about the data that you have to work with is basically the story of your life. So it's what decisions did you make? What happened? All these things. And looking at it from a perspective of, well, is that objective data? Like, okay, yeah, I got fired. That is a fact.

Why did you get fired? And people say, oh, they were just jerks, whatever. That's objective. That's not something in business, in the science that would help you at all. But the thing is, anything objective, you own your own objective data. Do whatever you want with it. You can change it. It sounds, it's okay. Yellow is my favorite color. That's a fact for me. That's an objective fact. But tomorrow I could wake up and say, red is my favorite color. That's a fact for me. That's an objective fact. But tomorrow I could wake up and say, red is my favorite color. I'm allowed to do that. But I can't tell you to change

what your favorite color is. And I can't change the fact that science comes together and creates the color yellow. Like that's, that's an objective fact that I can't change. So I go through all these things that factor into decision making. And, but with the tool, I'm sorry, I can't change. So I go through all these things that factor into decision making. But with the tool, I'm sorry, I got off track. With the tool, I have a lot of questions about your life. The whole idea is just to give you sort of food for thought about your own life and then think about, are you answering in an objective way or subjective way? And what does that mean? And what did this question really ask for? And it just helps you realize your tendencies, right? Around thinking and maybe why you made

certain decisions in the past and things like that. And I'm really excited about it. And I do say some people don't like to do things like that, but, and some people might just sit and think about it and that's fine. But if you want to use it, it's there. Now, this is on your website here, the story data mining tool. Yep. And it can be downloaded. I locked all the different fields that you don't fill in. Hopefully nobody, if anybody's not real good with Excel, you won't screw it up.

It's pretty simple. It's very simple and straightforward, but I'm hoping it'll be a helpful tool. Like I said, people need to be more accountable and objective. And like I said, like you mentioned, every one of my personalities is a different color. The one that says kill, kill likes red for some reason. I don't know what that's about. Anyway, enough jokes. But no, I like this because, like I said, it gives you a paradigm that you can work from that you can really embrace.

Because there's not a lot of good books that I've read on being objective about being accountable. And people just go, go be accountable. And you're like, what do I do with that? But really thinking about your career. Because do a lot of people really think about their career? They just go, I'll go to work, and then I'll go up the ladder, ladder and I'll just work hard every day and then hopefully things work out. Is that how most people approach a career? Well, everybody's different. But in the book, I do talk about the typical, I don't like never put everybody in a bucket, but the typical way is here you got to

decide what you want to do when you're in high school. And even those of us, as you get older, you say, how the heck was I supposed to know? And there's all kinds of reasons why you choose what you do. And some people make really great choices and they love it. It's fine. But anyways, you go through this cycle in your life of, well, why am I here? Why did I do this? Or everybody's different. I just keep saying that because I really want to stress that, but it's being honest with yourself, but it's also, as you said, a different kind of thought process. It's who cares if it's somebody else's fault. I'm not saying it's not their fault, but that's not, you can't, you're not in control of that. You can't do anything about it. Trying to understand what your scope of control is. And

it actually, when I learned that, I just felt so much more powerful, not in a diabolical way, but like I realized, hey, I, and I grew up very having problems with confidence and self-esteem and didn't feel like maybe I am allowed to take up the space that I'm in just because of my family situation. And I really learned over time, this is part of how I learned. Of course I am. I am here and I get to make decisions, but I don't know how to make them. Nobody taught me. So this is why I began to use this process. Yeah, I think it's really brilliant. I was trying to pull up the form here. So one of the things, haven't we touched on your book that we want to talk to you? Let's see. I go through a lot about,

like I said, in the first few chapters, go through, okay, this is what quality management is. This is why in this scenario, you're going to think of yourself as the customer and the manufacturer. And then what is it that we all want, right? Every one of us, it's biological, whatever. We want self-actualization, right? We're all driven in some, even if you don't think you are, you're driven to genetics drives you toward wanting. You may not get there or you may not have gotten there, but you want to be what you are.

So that's what we all want. Why aren't you there? And then I go through this sort of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Are you familiar with that? Yeah, very much. Yeah. So that's all about self-actualization. And it's a very good way to explain why maybe you're stuck lower,

which I was for a long time. And so I go through that and then this whole data thing. And so then once you come back from that, if you fill out that form or just think about it, whatever, come back and say, okay, what does all this mean that I just thought about? And how am I going to now apply this to my life? And how am I going to identify what I call a quality, a career quality event? So something happens, right? So in an industry, when you're maintaining, when you're building your quality, your product, they're always monitoring, right? Is the specification off?

Is there a lemon product came out? There's all these checks. So in your career, it's about being diligent and being able to identify, okay, this is a career issue. It's maybe a little issue or it's a big issue. And then going through the process of what's the risk and making a decision about it. I go through all of that. And I use examples, just made up examples that people could wrap their head around it. And then I also share stuff from my own life. I have my own story kind of inserted in there because it's just really important to me to

show, to say too, at one point I felt like I had a zero life and then, and here I have so much to be grateful for and make me happy. So. I'm looking at the spreadsheet that you have. This is interesting. You go through childhood ages, 13 through 18, 19 through 23 career and overall analysis. This is pretty cool. Yeah. Because people,

again, so book about careers, business book, but I really want people to know it's really, I wish it was more like in this category. Cause I really talk a lot about who you are and how to think back about who you were as a little kid and what happened to that person. And there's so many things about us that remain throughout life. And there's so many things that change because things happen to us and we didn't

know. We didn't know how to deal with it. Yeah, I'm going to go through this when I get some spare time and try and see what my answers are. And a lot of stuff shapes us as a child, correct? Exactly. And I really realized through all of my life so far, the things that I went through, that I wasn't in many ways wanting to face the very basic facts about my childhood. And I talk about in the book, in 2012, my brother, who's my only sibling, committed suicide. And it was just so shocking. And it would shock and upset anyone, but it just made me, it was very much a turning point in my life because I just thought, wow, it really, not that our childhood caused that. There's a lot of contributing things, but it was like, I can't lie to myself anymore. Like my brother's not even here and I, this, I'm not going to do it anymore. I got to be myself. Because that's the thing about

being yourself and honest with yourself. It's not always, a lot of people don't go around thinking, oh, I'm wonderful. And I have a million friends. Some people just behave in ways that aren't really natural to them or they don't think they have any friends and they might. And so this impacts everything, but it really impacts how you interact with people on the job, right, in your career. And you may not realize it, but it does. And I just saw that when I finally said, I'm going to be who I am and I'm not going to worry about all these things or what other people think I'm supposed to be. It's almost like it was just okay. I learned that, oh, people actually are okay with me being myself. And so I put myself through a lot of stress previously. And it's a hell of a journey.

That's what we, they all go through and trying to reconcile these different things that we experienced that happened to us and try and make them work. But again, like I say, I love how you've made this. It's easy to put your head around wrapping it from a business customer service centric sense. What else haven't we touched on in the book? Yeah. When you mentioned that, I was thinking about the five-star ratings program or whatever. And that's when I, it just struck me one day, I was reading something on Amazon and I thought, wow, the science of quality management is sitting here in our faces. It's in people's faces. That comes from this science. Absolutely. And I was thinking, wow, like people don't probably don't even know that. And why do they love it so much? Because

it works. You know what I mean? They want to know. It's only part of the process, but it's really about customer satisfaction. And if you can do yourself as your customer and help yourself believe that that's okay, that you are allowed to be the customer of your life, I think it's a really powerful thing. So that really also made me think about this book, that this was a very good cultural fit right now that people, if I explained it to people starting with that, I felt like maybe they could wrap their minds around it. I think it's important too. I see so many people, especially online, like I said, they're self-validated by social media. It's a whole influencer economy where everybody thinks their poop doesn't stink. Because I got 20 likes and 50 million people that tell me how great I am. I must be great.

I've been known to fall into that trap where you think that you're odd. I have a huge audience. And so I have a lot of people that tell me I'm great on a daily basis. And then there's a lot of people that tell me I'm not great. Usually that's on YouTube. YouTube has a, and Twitter, they have a lot of trolls over there. It hurts. It hurts when people, it hurts me. Yeah. You get, you do get, my gosh, I had so much rejection as a writer. And I got to a point, at one point, I just was like, I what you do, this is what we love to do. I've wanted to be a writer since I can remember. So I really went through this whole, it's hard to realize, okay, if I'm not on the New York Times bestseller list, or I don't have a Pulitzer Prize, does that mean that I should be unhappy and think I'm a terrible writer? Why am I writing?

You know what I mean? And once you realize I'm doing this because it will satisfy me, who I am authentically, then you still want to be on the New York Times bestseller list. I won't lie. But it's not going to kill you. It's not going to break you down. It's not going to make you give up and curse yourself. I'm doing what I was meant to do. There you go. What a great message. So Penelope, as we go out, give us your plugs so people can find you on the interwebs.

Yeah. So again, it's PenelopePrezCop.com is my author website. And of course, all my social media links are there. I'm on Instagram quite, you know, quite a bit. I just started posting videos. You would be proud of me, Chris. That was something I had to overcome. I think I'm getting a little better at it. Yeah, I'm on Facebook and Goodreads. I have a lot of readers on Goodreads and I have my books. And so I'm very happy about that. So yeah, I really hope that

people will check it out. And this, I really felt like this whole thing that I talk about in the book was a very, really was a missing link for me in so many ways. And I just, do I have time? I would like to make one more point. Please do. Oh, okay. So I did talk about in the book, when I was younger in college, I started reading a lot of self-help books, right? How to influence people and get friends, or I can't think of the name of it, but that famous book. Yeah. And then Your Erroneous Zones, which I love, and all these kind of books. And they made such good sense. And I thought, okay, tomorrow I'm going to do this. But it was hard.

And then I thought, wait a minute, they're skipping a step. I felt like for me, I thought normal people could do this tomorrow. But I can't. And I don't know how to get from where I am to where Dale Carnegie wants me to be. And my book, I hope, I really do hope, it's that link for some people. I think there's something in it for everybody, but it really says you could be positive all you want,

but it's going to be hard after a while. And I do believe in the power of positive thinking. Absolutely. I believe in all of these things, all these books, they're great. For many people, there's just this missing part of, I don't know how to figure-career, sometimes it's not that you want to change your career. Oh, I'm a nurse and now I want to go be a scuba diver. It's how can you be happy being a nurse?

It's all these things that are driving you crazy. You can use this approach. Yeah, I like how you use the scientific data approach. Because like you say, people just, okay, so I just go feel good and try and be positive and maybe things will work out better. And that's not necessarily the case. Yeah, I try. It does help. It does help.

But there's more. Like we're very complex. We're complex animals. Like we can't just smile. If you fall, get back up. That's true. But if you do it a thousand times, most people are going to get a little bit frustrated and depressed. I keep getting up, but I just keep falling again.

So you need something more, right? I do. There you go. It's been wonderful to have you on, Penelope. I think this is brilliant and great for people that need accountability because I know a whole host of people on social media that need accountability. And even I need more accountability as well. So thank you very much for coming on the show and spending time with us today. Thank you so much. I really appreciated it. There you go. I appreciate it. And then give me your links. Oh, I think we got your links. I think you're also on Pinterest,

correct too? I think that was one. Yeah. Like I said, I mostly just do home decorating there, but I am there. I love the visual aspect of it. And a lot of women love Pinterest, a great buyer community over there for books and everything else. I know. Yeah. I'm like you. I need to read more about it in terms of offering my products, so to speak. There you go. There you go. Thank you very much for coming on the show. Thanks to my audience for tuning in. Go to youtube.com for just Christmas. Hit the bell notification. It's free for an unlimited time. So you very much for coming on the show. Thanks to my audience for tuning in. Go to youtube.com for just Christmas. Hit the bell notification.

It's free for an unlimited time. So you want to capture that savings where you can go to a good reason. I come for just Chris Fox. We're actually running two giveaways over there on my books. Give a good reason. What a great place for books. Also go to Facebook, LinkedIn,

Twitter, Instagram, Tik TOK, all those different places where all the crazy kids are doing. Just search for the show or search for me. You'll find all the accounts. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other, and we'll see you guys next time.

Thank you.