The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – 60 Stories About 30 Seconds: How I Got Away With Becoming a Pretty Big Commercial Director Without Losing My Soul (Or Maybe Just Part of It) by Bruce Van Dusen

Episode Date: October 6, 2020

60 Stories About 30 Seconds: How I Got Away With Becoming a Pretty Big Commercial Director Without Losing My Soul (Or Maybe Just Part of It) by Bruce Van Dusen Brucevandusen.com You’ve probably seen more movies made by Bruce Van Dusen than any other director alive. 1977. New York City. Cool and crime-ridden, cheap and wild. Bruce Van Dusen shows up in town with a film degree and $150 to his name. He wants to make movies. So he does. The only ones anyone will pay him to make? Little ones. Thirty seconds long. Commercials. He has no idea what he’s doing and the money sucks. But he’s a director. He quickly learns he has the two things he needs to succeed in the fickle world of commercial-making: a talent for telling short, emotional stories, and the hustle to fight for every job no matter how small. He still has no idea what he’s doing—not that anyone needs to know that. He just keeps making it up as he goes along. He gets hired by a client on life support in the most depressing hospital in New York. Gets peed on by a lion. Abused by Charles Bronson. Explains peristalsis to a Tony winner. Makes a movie and goes to Sundance. Goes back to little movies when it bombs. Keeps hustling, shooting anything. Gets married, has kids. Pushes, shoves, survives. Gets divorced. Survives some more. Is an asshole, pays the price, finally learns when and how to be an asshole and becomes one of the industry’s stars. Years go by and it’s not what he expected. It’s harder, weirder, and funnier. But it worked out. It worked out great, actually. About Bruce Van Dusen Bruce Van Dusen has directed over a thousand commercials, three movies and a documentary. Over the course of his career, all sorts of weird stuff happened to him. Maybe the weirdest was that he had a very productive, four-decade long career. And now he's written a book about it. 60 Stories About 30 Seconds comes out 9/15/20 from Post Hill/Simon & Schuster. Van Dusen was born in Detroit and lives in New York City.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. The Chris Voss Show.com.

Hey, we're coming here with another podcast. We certainly appreciate you guys tuning in. Be sure to give us a like, subscribe to us. You can see the video version of this on YouTube.com, 4SixChrisVoss. Who wouldn't want to see the video version of it? Because I'm so beautiful. Brad Pitt calls me for tips on being incredibly good-looking.

So you might as well watch it on YouTube. You can also see us. We now, one of the newest syndications we've added is Amazon Music. So if you like Amazon Music, you listen over there, you can listen to the podcast over there. Chris Voss is over there, which is pretty awesome. You can also go follow me on goodreads.com. Look for Chris Voss. We've got a new group we're building over there for a book club.

We're going to give away books and talk about our authors and interviews and all that sort of good stuff. So go to goodreads.com. You can also go to the CVPN or Chris Voss Podcast Network, subscribe to all nine podcasts over there and all that good stuff. We have a most excellent guest, as always, on the show today, Bruce Van Dusen. Bruce has had more than a four-decade-long career as a successful director of commercials. Whether you want it to or not, guess what? You've seen his work, tons of it. His memoir about the ins and outs of his career and life is in his new books.

We've got it right here, looking at 60 stories, about 30 seconds. How I Got Away with Becoming a big commercial director without losing my soul, or maybe just part of it, published by Simon & Schuster. It just came out on September 15th. Welcome to the show. How are you, Bruce? Good, thanks, Chris. Thank you for having me here today. Awesome sauce. 60 stories in about 30 seconds. Give us some plugs on where people can find you on the interwebs. My website is very simple, unless you have my name, brucevandusen.com.

So it's B-R-U-C-E-V-A-N-D-U-S-E-N. That's got a link to all the different places where you can buy the book. There's a little bit of story about the book and it has contact information about my work as a director in commercials and in features. I have an Instagram account. Apparently, some other person named Bruce Van Dusen got there first,

so I have to be Bruce Van Dusen 1, which makes me sound like I'm going for some leadership position in China, but I'm not. That's where you find it. Then Twitter, nobody else had it, so I'm Bruce Fanduzen. Well, you know he's cool because he's on the Insta, where the kids are. Yeah, he's leading. He's leading.

There you go. So what motivated you to write this wonderful book and tell us all about you and your life? You know, I think that when you write a behind-the-scenes book and you sort of are telling stories outside of school, you have to be pretty confident that your career is kind of in its end stage. Because otherwise, the knives are going to come out and you're going to be over and done with. So it wasn't as if each chapter felt like it was a nail in my coffin, but it was definitely something that I could get into, Chris, because I'd survived and very few guys survive as long as I have. You can relate to this. Anybody in media can relate to this. And I thought that in a strange way, if I could put these ridiculous stories, somewhat educational, but ridiculous nonetheless, together in such a way and kind of unify them with a little bit of what was going on in my life, it might be interesting for people to read, particularly interesting for people to read who might be interested in going into the film business, because there are just zero

texts in that that are helpful. The only ones are written by people who've never earned a nickel in it, which summed up my experience in film school. It took me a long time to realize I was listening to people who were unemployed in the film business, but they were giving me advice about how to become employed in the film business. So I thought it would be entertaining. I tried to write it crisp for it to entertain people for a general reader. And I call it it you know people

say what is it i go it's kitchen confidential but it's unfolding on film sets so and not not nearly as much cocaine but uh hollywood cocaine yeah i don't know how that happened and in food come on no just right there at the at the food bar that they have with the thing. The so give us an overview of the book. You've, I mean, I meant imagine the title kind of tells you what it is. 60 stories about 30 seconds kind of sounds like a early love story of a 16 year old boy, but yeah, tell us what the book's about. It's it started out as being the kind of thing where you'd go to places.

You know, I lived in the suburbs. I raised my family in the suburbs. And I lived around people who had normal jobs. And then somebody would say, hey, what do you do? And I'd go, I direct commercials. And they'd go, oh, shit, that must be so much fun. And you go, yeah, you know, it's no, it's not that much fun. And they go, but doesn't really interesting shit happen all the time. And you go, stuff happens. And so have you ever met? Yeah, I have met that

person. Have you? Yeah. And, but then the stuff that really, I think resonated and was funny was the, or interesting was the stuff that was weirder. You know, I got my first job, came to New York. My roommate had a master's degree in film. I got a bachelor's degree guys's the most boring guy on earth. I mean, just fucking so boring. And he's out looking for work, dropping resumes. I am, he gets a job. He comes home. I got a job. I said, Oh Jesus, how did that happen? Next morning he goes off to his job. He calls me really early. And I said, what's wrong? He said, do you know how to drive a clutch? I said, yeah, I'm a guy. And he said, I don't.

And I said, well, what does that mean? He says, well, I'm supposed to drive a truck today. So I drove the truck and I was gainfully employed working on a film, working on a television commercial, which is a business I didn't know existed, Chris, until that morning. And I walked in and saw 70 large men, all men, building a set, moving furniture, lighting it, and making a minute rice commercial. And I thought, oh, okay, let me see how this works. And that sounded ridiculous because it was about the clutch. The first job I got directing a commercial came about because I agreed to go to a meeting with a guy who was a huge electronics retailer. And the meeting had been scheduled, but two days before he'd been attacked by a gang. So the meeting took place in an ICU at a hospital in New York.

He's in full traction, can't speak. His jaw is broken. He's got air oxygen tubes. He's, he's, he's completely fucked up. And his ad guy says, you know, Eddie's got a lot to do. Let's get the, let's, let's get the meeting on the road. And I thought he has a lot to do. Let's get the meeting on the road. I thought he has a lot to do. I mean, he's in bed. But in any event, I pitched him my ideas. He could not speak because his jaw was wired shut. Holy crap. The grunts were interpreted by his partner who said, okay, go ahead and make an ad. And I made

an ad and they wrote it up in the village voice. And there I was a commercial director. There you go. Those are some hell of a stories, man. Life comes at you weird sometimes, huh? It does. It comes at you weird. I think one of the things that I did, and maybe a lot of my peers didn't, was I benefited from being, when I try to make myself sound like the shit, I say, you know, I was a little naive. Basically, I was stupid.

I didn't know better. So I would go to any meeting. I'd get on any phone call. I'd do anything because I figured, you know, I'm not doing anything. And it might be an opportunity. I might meet somebody. Yeah. Amazingly 43 years later, you know, 45 years later, I'm still shooting television commercials and I have all these peers who, you know, dropped off the planet,

just when the stuff started to happen for them. And they go, you know, I don't shoot, I don't shoot dishwashing detergent. You know, that's not, yeah, I don't do that. I go, well, they're going to pay you. Yeah. But I mean, I mean, I'm doing, this is really art. I'm trying to do mostly stuff that feels like Roshamon meets Blazing Saddles, and it's kind of in a mashup there. And, you know, if they get me, I'll do the job.

But if they don't get me, I'm not going to. I go, okay, great, good, I'll do the job. Yeah. The check still clears. The money, you know, the money still goes to the bill. People you owe money to buy food. It seems to work for everybody. You know, there's something about that.

I never understood the word mercenary as being like a criticism. I thought that's a practical guy, right? I don't want to do the dishwasher soap. I moved up to paper towels, and we're not going back. It's kind of like when you move from TV to movies. You just don't go back. So I'm sticking with the paper towel. Yeah, there is that.

So there's a lot of chapters in this book with a lot of interesting chapter titles. And what were some of the stories that you liked out of your book? Well, I liked... The things I liked most were the stories where, I mean, I make fun of certain people, but I also tried to make sure that if you were keeping score, that the person I called an asshole the most was me. Because, you know, I was plotting my way through and I was terribly insecure. And, you know,

I had a little bit of skill and I got more as it went along, but I tried to make sure that I was, you know, it was equal opportunity name calling. But when you're doing commercials and you're working for people who are writing these things, there's so many times, Chris, where people say things to you that you just cannot fucking believe. I mean, I'm doing a spot for a laxative. And the spot is really simple.

It's just a close-up of a woman talking about not being able to move her bowels. And she's a Broadway actress. She's won a Tony Award. I don't know why she took this job. Actually, I do know why. She took it because she was going to make $75,000 in residuals. But we shoot for about an hour, and I think we're done. And I turn, and this copywriter standing next to me looking really unhappy. And I said, I think we're good here. I think we're done, don't you?

He goes, oh, no, we're not done. I said, what do you mean? He goes, she doesn't get it. I go, she doesn't get what? He said, peristalsis. Peristalsis is the scientific term for going to the bathroom. And I said, Oh, I definitely think she gets peristalsis. He goes, I don't. I said, I'm, I'll tell you, I'm very,

there's few things in my life that I'm a hundred percent of. This woman knows exactly how peristalsis works. He goes, somebody's got to explain it to her. And I said, well, that's not going to fucking be me. And he said, well, what are we going to do about it? So I said, I think you're going to have to talk to her. You're the one. It's your thing, buddy. So he goes over, you know, and he stands there like he's a therapist, you know, and he's nodding his head.

She won't even make eye contact with him. And he holds for about 10 minutes. He comes over and he goes, she gets it now. So you have that. That's a hilarious story, dude. That guy did not. He, you know,

I shot a few more takes and I said, what do you think? He goes, totally gets it. Now it's completely different. I said, yeah, yeah,

totally. But you'd have, you'd have you'd have you know the day my first kid was born we go to the hospital my wife's in labor it's early and the ob-gyn says you're gonna have the kid, when? He said, not for a long time, like seven o'clock tonight. I said, oh, so I could go shoot a commercial. He goes, well, I don't know. How long does that take? I said, it's going to take me like four hours. He said, yeah. I suddenly realized it was Jewish holidays. It was Rosh Hashanah. He said, I'm going to synagogue. I'm going to temple. So I'm leaving the hospital. I'll be back in like eight hours. I said, I'm going to synagogue. I'm going to temple. So I'm not going to, I'm leaving the hospital. I'll be back in like eight hours. I said,

somehow my, my wife, my ex-wife thought this was all fine. So I go up to shoot a commercial, Chris, for Japanese airlines and we've hired a woman who's going to talk in a monologue. And I'm really nervous. I got to get this thing done. And we've been shooting for about 15 minutes and I'm really nervous. I've got to get this thing done. And we've been shooting for about 15 minutes, and I'm looking through the camera, and suddenly I look, and I notice something's really wrong.

Like, she looks like she's had her wisdom teeth removed. And what's happened is that her left ear has popped out. So it's out now at a right angle to her head. Makeup guy runs over to me and he said, I had to glue her ears to her head. I said, what? He said, yeah, her ears stick wide out on each side. So they're glued to her head.

I said, well, can you keep them glued to her fucking head? Because this is not going to work. He goes, I'm going to do the best I can. I'll do the best I can. I said, I got to get out of here. And he said, well, the glue is going to hold for like 10 minutes at a time. So I said, just keep gluing those ears shut. Keep gluing those ears shut.

So I shoot about 10 minutes, and all the clients are Japanese. There's 20 of them. It looks like taking a Pelham one, two, three. I can't tell if anybody can understand English. I don't know what's going on. I just want to make sure that the ear, they don't notice the ears. So I spend two and a half hours shooting with these ears popping out. And then finally we get a take that everybody likes. And I run over and say, ah, you know, I think we're done. And then I hightail it out of there, get to the hospital. My wife's up in the delivery room, the OB is late. And she goes, what took you so long?

I said, you won't even, it's impossible. Yeah, you don't want to hear a girl's ears were popping out. So those are the kinds of things that, I mean, it's easy to laugh now, but when you're in the middle of it or when you're having an adult male, I mean, somebody who's like probably got a college education and he comes up to you and says, I don't think she understands peristalsis. And you feel like you just want to go out to like the you know the perspective of the space shuttle and look down on this and say what the fuck what happened here

what are you what are you doing yeah i can i can identify with that um for about six years one of the companies that we own we used to have a nice little cluster of companies before the 2008 recession and uh one of the companies we owned was a talent agency and we did acting and modeling and we were in utah at the time and we would send stuff to touch by an angel everwood and and there was a lot of shooting going on in utah back then because of the strike that had gone on in california and so we you know, I would go sit on casting things for films and stuff, and it was, but there was always those people in Hollywood that they just can't leave it alone,

like, just like, okay, let's do this. They've got to be like, we must turn it into art. And, you know, and everyone's trying to carry that gauntlet, so everyone's fighting with each other over it. You're just like, whatever. No, it's, I think in commercials, one of the reasons that you run into that kind of personality is because people are just inherently embarrassed by what they do.

You know, when I started in the late 70s, early 80s, if I was in a social situation, you know, and I said I direct commercials, I would usually cover my mouth for the commercials part. You know, I direct commercials. It was not cool. And then it started to get a little cool because people who were doing music videos started doing commercials and movie guys did it. It mainly, all those guys started to do it because there was all this money in it.

Yeah. But then you'd, you know, you'd cringe when you'd get to an event where you'd have to be in a room with like five or six commercial directors. And it's just, you know, it's like a bunch of douchebags and backwards baseball caps and australian fireman shoes and sunglasses indoors and they're doing things like this you know and you're going stop it stop it what are you doing and they'd be still saying and you'd find also many times when i would shoot famous people, famous, you know, actors or athletes or politicians, they'd usually cringe when you'd come into the room because they'd done

something like this before. And I knew that they were expecting the guy in the backwards hat and the glasses and saying, you know, what I'm trying here is to take, you know, the emotion of the civil war, but bring it to this message and the inclusivity of it will take into it, you know, and you just glaze the room. And my, my whole approach was just to come in and say, hi, nice to meet you. This is going to take me about five fucking hours, then we'll be home. And do you have anything particular you want to drink? And they'd go, this is a home run. This guy gets it, you know, which is just we're going to work and get out here.

I didn't think that was a terrible thing to look at it and say, you know, it's a job. This is why you've had such a long story career is because, you know, you approach this work and you do your job and, you know, you go home. I think it helped. I definitely think it helped. It made me a very big favorite with Cruise. And I think it made me, you know, I had a lot of celebrities that I worked with who wound up requesting that I come back to work with them because it was just no bullshit. I didn't really think what we were doing.

I thought what we were doing was important. There was a lot of money involved, and there were a lot of people who needed to be satisfied, but I just didn't think it was so serious. Yeah. You know, have you ever lived in California? I would, 10-year period, I was there six months of the year, but always Southern California.

Yeah. I don't know if New York's the same way, but when I moved to California, I grew up in California. When I moved back for about three years, I would go to parties, and some of them were, like, for AT&T and different companies that we review and stuff on the Chris Voss Show. So they weren't like Hollywood parties although we we you know we went to some Grammy parties things like that but it was so insane how you would go there and like everyone's talking about the sets they were on and you know I was on a set today with with freaking Meryl Streep

and and you know whatever and they're all just going around just hashing this out as to what they've been doing. And you're like sitting there looking at them going, uh, was that in the extras, uh, section, you know?

And, uh, and then he came to me and they go, so what do you do, Chris? And I'm like, I have podcasts and website review stuff. And they're just like,

test disc. Oh, yeah. You you and i just be sometimes i'd have fun with them and i'd fuck with them and make up stories like you know i just try and fit in but i just make up stories to fuck with them like yeah i was just having lunch with uh you know so and so you know they're like really i'm like yeah yeah me and steven me and steven spielberg he optioned a thing with me, and I think we're going to do it. You know, I just fuck with him.

It's the constant in it. It's not just commercial directors. I mean, everybody's like, yeah, I've got something in development at Fox. Yeah. You do? Well, I've got something in development at Fox. Yeah. You do? Well, I'm talking to this guy. Really? Well, I have his email.

Yeah, that's exactly what it's like. In New York, there's an expression. You'll be hanging out on a set. And people you have, I have love have love hate with them the teamsters you know they're uh they're challenging and they're all over big unionized movie sets you go near a bunch of teamsters and uh you know it's the summer and a movie opens, Spider-Man opens. You're at some event, there's 18-sters there, and they start talking.

They go, oh, did you see my picture opened? I go, what? Yes, my picture, Spider-Man, it's my picture. Meaning the guy drove a prop truck on it for 16 weeks. Yeah, it's my picture. Okay, that's great. People who come in contact with it, there's a story in the book of shooting an ad for a big insurance company and I needed to get in a hospital. And the only kind of hospitals that allow you in are hospitals that are in really shitty shape, but they need the money. We found this one in the Bronx. I didn't realize the guy who was in charge of dealing with film companies, he now decided he was like a studio executive. So I'm walking around with him. He's this, you know, this schmo lives in great, great, great neck. And he said, what are you looking for? I said, I want to find something that's got

a hallway, but maybe a window at the end or something that I can see that there's a skyline out there. He goes, let me, let me show you this. So I go over and I go, that is a great view. He goes, yeah, Marty likes that view. I go, Marty. He goes, Scorsese. He loves that shot. I go, he does. He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. that shot. I go, he does. He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me show you another shot. Marty loves. And we walked to another hallway. He goes, go, go down here. Low this. And I go, I've sort of put my head down. He goes, sit on the ground like Marty does, you know? And I said, okay, okay.

And I said, do you, so I said, you know, and he goes, you know, I did a little, little, a wall street picture here, you so i said you know him he goes you know i did a little little wall street picture here you know and you know i did a scene or two i go what what he goes yeah he just thought i had something you know so mad and i and leo you know we had a fun little i said get out of here you're an actor he goes not really you know i just just myself. Well, it sounds like you have a real, your feet are on the ground. Like you have a really good circumference in your head of like who you are, where you're at, what you're doing. Like you're not getting lost in the bullshit minutia of it all.

Well, thank you. I think that's inevitably what happens once you get some miles under your feet. You probably need it too to keep your sanity. Because I remember doing stuff with Hollywood and it would just get stupid. Like, just stupid stuff. And there was all sorts of insanity around it like we i think one time we had uh i we had uh who was it sean uh he was the he was the stepson of kirk or kirk russell no kirk uh oh you had kirk douglas we had sean sean douglas come up one time and we start getting these calls at my agency with this

drunk agent and they're like hey we're over at the bar come on over i think it was sean um and uh and so and and then they're like we left our we left our tape at your front door our reel and we're like what the fuck why is someone calling me from a bar and they want me to come over and uh so we watched the tape and he's just he's just excoriating every film he's been on like iron eagle four and he's doing stand-up just wrecking his producers and directors so i call some of the people i'm like i'm like hey man what's this dude doing like why is this guy banging on my door his brother oh and he's doing jokes about how um he's scarred because michael all the girls would get to know him and then go to Michael.

He later died of a drug overdose, so it was kind of sad. But, yeah, all my friends in Hollywood are like, just run from that dude. But the dude would keep calling us. Like, it was just, you know, this is crazy shit. So you've got interesting chapters in the book. Tom waits, which is kind of interesting to me. I don't know what stories behind that uh polishing turds is the name of a chapter here uh let's see meet the beatles

uh what else is on here it's this is not brain surgery uh what was there anything that surprised you in going back to it was there anything anything that you stuck out at you? Like, do you have a favorite story? I think what stuck out at me was that I, that there were so many ridiculous incidents and, and also that I had particular, probably for the first 10, 15 years, Chris, I really behaved like an asshole. I had, probably for the first 10, 15 years, Chris, I really behaved like an asshole. I mean, I was so insecure and conflicted and not sure how a director was supposed to behave

because I didn't have a role model. I didn't have a mentor. I didn't have somebody who would just watch me do this and then bitch slap me afterwards and say, could you shut up? They're paying you. So I think one of the things that jumped out at me was that I was able to get through that first 10, 15 years where I really learned how to do it. And then by 10, 15 years, that was a point where I learned when to be an asshole. Because in this, in any sort of creative job, you can be the nicest person in the world, but eventually, because you're going

to have people around you who are all going to want to throw in their two cents, you have to be able to have the personality that eventually eventually just says no we're doing it my way and you're you're not scared about stepping on some toes I think it sounds serious but I think it's a really accessible thing to any viewer look my my job most people flee the end product of my job to go take a leak. They don't want to, they don't want to watch it. But if I, so I've got a really high bar to get people there. And when you'd have 30 people telling you about how to do something, you'd think you guys just don't want this to be good. Do you? You're like all this money is changing hands hands but everything you're doing is working in

service of making this shitty and eventually i would say to people you know it's kind of like you're the director and they're they want you to solve the problem but they've arranged it so that it's like the pilot has to leave the cockpit just as you've left LAX and you're flying to London and check in with the guy in seat 3F and say, how do you think the flaps are looking on the right wing there? And the guy doesn't have a fucking clue about the flaps, but because he's in a first-class seat, the pilot's been told you've got to ask him his opinion.

Well, that's a problem of any business. You get too many cooks in the kitchen, and it's just a nightmare. And there has to be somebody who rises up and goes, hey, I'm the one, and this is where it goes from here. And there's a reason you're the director, right? Well, I used to find I would be, I had to sit in my fair share, as I'm sure you do, of meetings, which are soul-killing, soul-killing exercises in time.

But I would always observe people to see if anybody had really interesting transferable expert skills at being able to take somebody's totally shitty attitude, but their power and completely diffuse it. You know, I'd have to sit with all these people who, you know, were paying me a lot of money and I'd have to often, you know, nod my head like a trained monkey and say, yeah, yeah. I mean, I hear you. That was an expression I really liked. There was one guy I watched.

I thought, that's the stupidest expression in the world. And then I thought, no, that's the greatest all-purpose expression I've ever heard. Somebody did it, and they go, I hear you. What does that mean? What does that fucking mean? I hear you. And they can hear it as being wow i'm really being understood or he gets me and it could be me saying it which means my ears hear you i don't care

fucking you should probably shut the fuck up now all right yeah but i didn't hear you oh that was the other thing i was gonna tell you you mentioned how the producers were walking around with the thing when i go to the california parties they would have like a little camera monocle or i don't know what it is but it's yeah camera eye you know and they just be walking around going like this through the party you're just like are you fucking serious you're an extra in in you know whatever the thing is uh you got some other good chapters in here this is an entertaining book how to be an asshole uh when i went blind uh show me the Money, Marty and Me. I think that was probably the dude in the hallway.

And Bronson and Eastwood, that's kind of interesting. Is that a story about actual Bronson? It is. It is. I was hired to do a couple of commercials, public service commercials. And the premise, it was a good premise, was that three Hollywood tough guys would each talk about, you know, birds or little bunnies or something. It was cute.

So we did Lou Gossett Jr., we did Charles Bronson, and Clint Eastwood. And the only time that I know that he ever appeared in what would be called a television commercial. So Lou Gossett was fine. And then next day I have Charles Bronson. I'm about 32 years old. I'm really, I'm way over my head,

Chris, but I'm, you know, I think I'm going to get it done. And Charles Bronson gets out of the limo and I can see steam coming out of his ears. And I introduced myself and he goes, what do you do here?

I said, I'm the director. And he goes, what do you do here? I said, I'm the director. And he goes, uh, somebody better tell this fucking limo guy how to drive around LA. And the limo guy standing there, he looks, he's so uncomfortable looking. It looked like he's eaten, you know, street food in Somalia. He's like having huge gut cramps. He's in horrible shape. And Bronson, I said, let's get you over into makeup and we'll figure this out. So I got over and on the way over, he goes, the script sucks. Do you know that? I go, yeah, I know it's, it's not that good. I know he goes, but I'm going to work on it. So it'll get better. I said, that's great. Go to the makeup.

Yeah. Yeah. Always the script sucks. So I go back to the limo driver. I said, what happened? He says, that's all total bullshit. The fucking guy made me drive him to a specific Walgreens in the valley and sent me in to buy mascara for him. I said, he did? He said, yeah, and that's why we're late because I had to go out of my way. And then I had to get on the one-on-one and it was jammed.

I wouldn't go this route. I said, all right. So we go do the thing with Bronson. He leaves the limo drivers saying, and you know what? I had to pay my 20 bucks. So we give the limo driver 20 bucks. Nobody wants Bronson's autograph. He does his job well.

The next, so the next day I've got clint eastwood i'm terrified i'm out in the parking lot in the morning with my producer and i say this looks a little short here where is where is clint's trailer she goes he doesn't have one i said what she said yeah he didn't want one he said he'd just come i said well do we have the same driver as we had yesterday? He said, no driver. He said, he's driving himself. He's bringing his own stuff. I said, you are fucking me.

You are fucking me. This is the biggest movie star in the world. He's driving himself? Yeah. Right on cue, Buick station wagon drives in. Clint Eastwood gets out. I go over and I say, Mr. Eastwood, hi, I'm Bruce Van Dusen. He goes, Clint, Clint is fine. And I said, oh, okay. I said,

I'm just checking, you know, the car and the, this, he goes, nah, Bruce, I don't, I'm very happy. Just, I'm kind of interested. Let's go get a coffee and let's just work. World's nicest guy, walk on the set. He knows two of the guys in my crew. Everybody asks after their kids. Everything nice. Everything nice. And the strangest part was that I'm talking to him, and I think it's a little different.

You know, he's Clint Eastwood, but it's a little different. We roll the camera to do the first take, and suddenly his eyes change, his voice goes down an octave, and he starts talking, and I go, oh, this is why he's a movie star. He puts on this persona, and it was great. And at the end, you know, it was, it was great. And at the end of, you know, we do 10 takes. I turned to the agency. I said, I really can't with a straight face, ask Clint Eastwood to do this again. It's like what better.

And as he leaves, everybody wants an autograph and he signs an autograph. And as he's driving out in his Buick, Chris, we're in the Pasadena gardens, three tourists recognize him, you know, and just start screaming. He stops his car, signs an autograph, hi. And I think here was a lesson that I applied on everything that I found, which was whether I was dealing with Clint Eastwood or Michael Schumacher, the greatest Formula One driver, Andre Agassi, or any of the people who were really the best in their field were also nice.

Really? The ones who were not quite the best had more of a tendency to be a little bit needy, have a little bit of a tendency to be a little bit needy, a little, have a little bit of a, of a tendency to be a diva, have something to prove. Um, my experience,

maybe it was also that, you know, I would swear as soon as I'd meet people, I'd try to tell them, you know, this is just not going to be a fucking big deal. Let's get it done. I think most people who were used to being in the limelight were happy that maybe for

a day it was just going to be work. They knew how to work. Yeah. So it's interesting. It's interesting how you made that assertion and the people that, that are the nicest, the most, the most human, I guess maybe were the successful ones. And the people who are always putting on airs kind of maybe had to put on airs because they have to because, I don't know, they need everything they can to buck themselves up or maybe they're just lost in the whole BS of it all. Yeah, I think they're probably – listen, no one's born famous.

Maybe if you're in a royal family, you're born famous, but nobody's born famous. And, you know, I think particularly in Los Angeles, you know, you would encounter people who had entourages and they had their people and you had to go through their people. And it usually meant that there was going to be some bullshit. I mean, Clint Eastwood literally had no people. He showed up by himself. And it was always a good sign. Musicians sometimes would have them. I enjoyed,

once I got over the fact that I thought that, you know, somebody who was really well-known was going to bite my head off and figured out a way to deal with them, where it reduced the chances of that happening those became kind of fun jobs to do because you'd you'd really enter into weird lives famous people lead weird lives i'm and i'm glad i'm not one of them yeah did you ever come up with the theme throughout your you know like some some directors uh even in commercials because a lot of like music guys got into commercials um did you ever come up with a sort of like when we watch your commercials, can we always tell that they're your commercial sort of thing? Like you're the Martin Scorsese of commercials or something? Yeah, I was always doing the ones where bodies were in trunks of cars.

Now, it's a very good question because it has to do with a little bit of how you distinguish yourself in that weird business and get people to look for you. But it can also be a little bit of a curse. In my business, it's pretty much broken down. You have guys who are comedy directors, and then you have people who do beauty commercials. You have people who spend their whole lives taking pictures of hamburgers and pancakes. And then there are ones who are more storytellers. I saw pretty early on that I wanted to be more of a generalist, Chris. I liked being funny, but I wasn't as good at being funny on film. But I found that I was pretty good at doing these commercials that people like phone companies or insurance companies or networks or, or airlines would do where the goal was to get a viewer to cry in 60

seconds. So strangely with my mouth and you know, my approach to the whole thing, one of the things that I kind of distinguished myself as was a director who would do these commercials where people would kind of choke up watching them and i thought that was a i found that to be very satisfying work um um you you're in a state where uh you know the the latter-day saints made themselves famous for years with these commercials that they were doing.

Amazing 60-second commercials about families and friendship and all sorts of things. But then I was doing it, you know, with a slightly ulterior motive where, oh, her husband died by that card. So, you know, a little bit of cross purposes, but at least I could get them to, you know a little bit of cross purposes but at least i could get him to you know have a reaction uh made me feel like i was more of a filmmaker there you go there you go you're having that oscar moment in 30 seconds exactly oh that's awesome sauce yeah i love i love the uh the entertainment that's in your book is just hilarious i mean just reading some of the chapters i fucking hate steve as a chapter shooting in shitholes you're not my first please shut up i mean pimps and gimps uh wow that was

sweet dude where's my car um yeah some of the chapters in here just complete entertainment and fun and and yeah i mean just hollywood is such a crazy place and so dealing with it and its people everything else um i mean there's probably a second book here coming up isn't there with all the other stories well i had i took yeah i took plenty out um i took plenty out. I think one of the things that also people will find, maybe they'll find interesting in my book is, you know, many young filmmakers, you kind of, they don't want to be, make a movie. I get it. That's right. So I looked at, when I went into commercials, which was kind of by mistake, I thought, oh, I'm going to have a plan here. So I'm going to do this for about five years, and I'll really learn how to do it.

And then I'll segue into making movies. So I segued into making movies, and things looked good. Like the first movie I made got into Sundance and Toronto, and I got all these distribution offers and and then the movie came out and it got pretty shitty reviews you know and so there was nobody banging on my door to make a make another movie right away I was so lucky to be able to go back to commercials I was still able to have something that I was doing. 20 years later, I made another movie. But I was making it for my own, you know, just to have fun. Because at this point, I had a big commercial career.

I mean, I also learned a lot when I went to Sundance. The first-time directors, they put you in a roommate situation with experienced, famous directors. So I had as a roommate Jonathan Demme before he died. He hadn't directed Philadelphia or Silence of the Lambs yet, but he was great. And then another guy named Paul Bartel. As soon as I got to the condominium, they tried to borrow my car. I was the only one who could afford to rent a car. I'm like, i'm 29 these are 45 year

old directors that i'm trying to kiss the ring and they're like can we borrow your car and like an idiot i gave them my car i never had it the whole weekend i'm taking a shuttle bus around park city people going didn't you rent a car man i said yeah fucking jonathan demme i haven't seen it since and uh good lesson though because i thought if you're a famous director you must have the wherewithal to buy a house feed yourself or i mean if even if you're renting an apartment at least you can rent a car yeah there's a lot ofurism that goes on in that business. I remember being at the Westwood Marquis, going down to get my car, and Oliver Stone is there fighting with the garage attendant,

who says, you owe $20. He goes, $20? I'm an ambassador to the Asian Film Society. Don't you know who I am? This poor Guatemalan is sitting there going, who is this nut? Just give me my 20 bucks and I'll tell you. Jesus, man, it's 20 bucks.

Shut up. How much did you make on your last film, Oliver? Yeah, the Sundance parties, I remember going to those because we get invited to those and we go up and they were such a star fucker event of people just, you know, whoever the big Hollywood thing was. Back then it was Brangelina and different things like that, and everybody's, like, humping.

I heard over at the other party, the other house other houses you know your your house hopping all the time yeah and me i just want to get drunk and meet some hot chicks and get laid that was my whole motive right yeah and uh so my favorite thing to do to get the bar cleared because there'd be you know everybody be trying to get a drink at the bar i would find a lookalike like somebody who looked like anybody like diana ross like that was my favorite if i found somebody look like and they wouldn't they just kind of look like them but i just i'd just be waiting in line going i just want a fucking drink so i can get fucking drunk here and i and i see somebody i like i think oh my god it's tom cruise over there and like you know everybody like run away from the bar and i and i sat up to the bar and they'd

be over some poor bastard stuck with all these people coming after him and that was the way i got drinks and suddenness but it was just such star fuckery yeah anything to clear a room and then the you know that was that was also the one of the first environments I was in where I learned that people would not look at you when they would talk to you because they were looking at the door or past you to see if something better was going on. And it was really in my year, I had this weird year where the 10 dramatic finalists were, four of them were first-time directors. One was John Sayles. One was Jim Jarmusch. One was Adam Brooks.

One was Bobby Roth. But then also the Coen brothers had their first film in my year. So we're all competing and we're going to these dinners together and people you know the kind of conversation would be um do you like utah and you go yeah you know and you'd be about two sentences into your reply and they go do you know the cone brothers and you go what and then i was talking about utah yeah that's that's true who's in your picture do you and you know i saw the the Coen brothers, and they – it's horrible.

So, you know, you would just learn quickly. You should just be like, yeah, man, I have lunch. We have breakfast every morning. Yeah, get together and shoot the shit. Yeah, in fact, they let me sleep on the couch last night. We all get drunk. I held my tongue for most of it, and then I was standing in line at the airport to fly home.

And one of the judges, complete galoom. I'd never heard of him. The self-important journalist was in front of me on the line and to check in and turns around. And he said, you're Bruce. And I said,

yeah, you're, I said, we didn't meet today. He goes, yeah, Peter didn't like your he goes yeah peter didn't like your film i'm like great you know great i i mean i know that because i didn't i know it

because you voted for the cone brothers but uh really necessary to share that with me but then i thought fuck it i'm going back to yogurt commercials and they're gonna pay me on time and nobody's gonna borrow my rent-a-car it's gonna be it's gonna be great so i do you get the thing where i don't know if people do this to you but they they do the hey i have a script do you want to copy do you get that yep that's how i did my second movie i worked with an actor and the end of it he said you want to read a script and i so, I was in such a chaotic period of my life. I said, yeah, sure. Give me the script. So I, you know, I read it. It was fine. But I, and he said, what did you think? I said, oh, it was, you know, it was great. It was great. It was really great.

He goes, well, would you sign on? I said, yeah. I said, he said, cause then, you know, we're going to raise the money. I figured, great. I don't have to do anything. And then, you know, two years later, I'm driving home and my phone rings and he goes, yeah. And I thought, I thought, what happened? Did you have penis extension surgery? And he said, no, we raised the money for the film. Oh my God. I have god i have to make a movie so i have to make a movie there was one time i was at sundance and i think we're at the chevy house which is i think it was a famous house it's starting to blur with all my old age and everybody was there because they thought uh tom cruise's ex-wife was there i forget her name i'm horrible with names agree with faces and uh so i'm there and i'm wearing like my suit back then i i didn't weigh as much as i did then i was much better looking and uh and these two actors come up to me and they go you're that

director and i go no i'm just chris voss and they go no you are you're that hollywood director and i'm like i don't even know what ho director, like they told me, it just went. And, uh, and I'm like, I don't know, man. I give him my business card. I'm like, look, man, I'm, I just run an agency. I just, and like, no, you're just trying, you just don't want to be seen. We got you, man. We got you. And like, do you want, do you want, do you want our, do you want our, our scripts our our scripts oh i know man i'm really and like lily i was like trying to get away from him just moving around the house trying to get away from just get drunk and see how i can get laid with by somebody

and they keep following me and they start telling people they go he's a director guy and it's just the leg humping of that industry is just so interesting, but that's, what's going to make your book so fun to read. I think for readers, anything more we should know about your book, Bruce? Uh,

no, you've given me a great, great opportunity to chat and be funny and laugh with you about it. Just, uh, go to Amazon or Barnes and noble or your independent bookstore i love independent bookstores keep them alive and uh buy the book and i'm really really dependent on like all authors today uh if you read it and you like it write a review

you know if you don't like it keep it to yourself just fuck you don't like it, keep it to yourself. Just fuck you. If you see him at Sundance, don't go up to him and go, I gave it three stars. But no, this sounds like a really fun book. And you can also see him on brucevanduzen.com. You can see some of his work there, his playlists, his films. His reel, as they like to call it.

That's right. Very good. Check it out, guys. 60 Stories About 30 Seconds. That's how I got away with becoming a pretty big commercial director without losing my soul or maybe just part of it. I read that backwards

off the screen. That's very impressive. There you go. Anyway, guys, thanks to Bruce for being with us. Thanks for sharing all this stuff. It's been fun, bud. There you go. Anyway, guys, thanks to Bruce for being with us. Thanks for sharing all this stuff. It's been fun, bud. Thanks, Chris. Thank you. And thanks, Melanies, for tuning in.

Be sure to check out Bruce's book. You can go to Amazon.com. You can also go to Amazon.com forward slash shop forward slash Chris Voss. See all the books of all the wonderful authors that have been on the show. And hit that buy button. And, of course, as Bruce said, give them some wonderful reviews and all that. Cause a five stars, five stars are always good to give people.

I mean, it takes a lot of work to write these damn books. They deserve five stars. It takes a lot of time. I'm trying to write one right now. Anyway, guys go to the CBPN, go to youtube.com for Chris Voss at that bell notification.

Follow me on goodreads.com. Just look for Chris Voss over there and we'll look forward to seeing you guys again. Be safe, wear your mask, register to vote. We'll see you next time.