The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – A Beautiful Challenge, Building Healthy Relationships by Michael T. Brown

Starting point is 00:00:00 You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. This is Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com.

Starting point is 00:00:39 The Chris Voss Show. Come on. There you go. When the lady sings it, that makes it official. Welcome to the show, my family and friends. We certainly appreciate you guys being here and being a part of the show as always. Without you guys, we'd just be a couple of folks just sitting here talking to ourselves, which is pretty much what I do with all nine of my personalities on Fridays.

Starting point is 00:01:00 We just sit and have a conversation again. But at least we're never lonely except for you know that one weird personality but we don't talk about that the judge says i can't anymore anyways uh as always for three 50 years three to four shows a day 15 to 20 shows a week we bring you the smartest people the billionaires the ceos the pulitzer prize winners the uh presidential advisors uh you know the astronauts, and just people who've spent years and years, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of hours,

Starting point is 00:01:33 sometimes a lifetime, bringing you their stories, their journeys, their owner's manual that they've developed to help you through life, realize you're not alone, and get you on to the next level. And if not, you're going to learn something. I go through the show like every day every guest i just come away with epiphanies and knowledge and tidbits and uh they're just wonderful and and you can learn so much from other people because i don't know if you've if you've seen me there's not i mean no one can learn anything off of me i'm over me that's

Starting point is 00:02:03 why we have guests on the show and And we have another amazing one today. So we're excited to have him as well. We're going to be talking with, let me see if I can pull it up here, Michael T. Brown. He's a licensed counselor, leader, and author. And his one book that he has out, he's got two, I believe, but the book will be uh highlighting here is called a beautiful challenge building healthy relationships which are good to do because i've tried the opposite of building unhealthy relationships and uh yeah no one should write a book about that except maybe not what to do uh michael is a gentleman who is a lpc licensed professional counselor he's been

Starting point is 00:02:44 empowering individuals families and businesses and communities with tremendous success for over the last 20 years. He serves as the principal of Brown's Leadership Consulting, which provides counseling support to individuals and families, consulting services to organizations and businesses. He also served as a national trainer for the Y-Tri LLC, one of the nation's leading resilience education programs that specializes in student achievement.

Starting point is 00:03:11 He also partnered with the D.C. Office of the Attorney General to serve as a trainer for their Violence Interrupter Program since 2020. He's authored Born to Achieve and A Beautiful Challenge. In 2013, he hosted The Brown Bag with Michael T. Brown on Blog Talk Radio, interviewing some key community difference makers and flashing the spotlight on pertinent issues facing our society. He's committed to empowering others and communities through education, inspiration, mobilization, and he enjoys spending time with his family and friends, unlike me. Welcome to the show, Michael.

Starting point is 00:03:45 How are you? I'm doing great, Chris. Thanks for having me on. I'm just kidding. I like my family and friends. I have to. So there you go. It's wonderful to have you, Michael.

Starting point is 00:03:54 Give us your dot coms. Where can people find you on the interwebs? Yes, people can find me on Twitter, formerly known as X, formerly known as Twitter, at MTBrown98. And you can find me on Facebook as well. I get confused by the X Twitter thing too. I'm still waiting for the new name to come out called Bankruptcy. Apparently it's coming next week or something.

Starting point is 00:04:18 People watching our videos 10 years from now are going to be like, yeah, it turned out to be Bankruptcy. So there you go. So we'll talk to you about what you're doing, but let's lead off with your amazing book here. Tell us about your book, A Beautiful Challenge. Evidently, people can only pick up your site. We should make that clear and tell people how they can get a hold of it.

Starting point is 00:04:37 Yeah, well, thanks for that. They can go to my website, brownsleership.com. But the book, you know, in many ways, Chris started with recognizing that, you know, successful and healthy relationships are not inherited. Right. They must be fought for and won. And in the book, you know, I go through some skills, some tools and provide inspiration that can help people to find healthy relationships, personal and professional. And yeah, I've gotten some really good feedback on it and I look forward to discussing it a little more. Definitely, definitely. So you wrote the book to help people do their thing. Tell us a little bit about your journey. What's your hero's journey? How did you get into this business and helping other people as a counselor and leader? Yeah, I've been a school counselor. I'd say that's where I kind of developed my chops. I did that for about 16, 17 years. Then I went into

Starting point is 00:05:34 private practice back in 2016. And I see individuals, families, couples here regionally in Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia area and across the country through video conferencing. And interesting you asked that question. I was thinking about this earlier today. I remember back in high school, I knew early on towards towards graduation that I wanted to be in the people business. I don't know exactly what that was going to look like, but the idea of psychology, the idea of thinking about why people, why we do what we do, why we think the way we think, fascinated me pretty early on. And it led me to this path.

Starting point is 00:06:11 And it's been awesome. There you go. I've always wondered that, too. Why do people think what they think and why do they do what they do? But usually I phrase it as, what the hell are you doing? No, I'm just kidding. That's another way of putting it. Yeah. Yeah, I just walk around the neighborhood and be like as what the hell are you doing? No, I'm just kidding. That's another way of putting it. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:25 Yeah. I just walk around the neighborhood and be like, what the, what the hell is going on? I'm just kidding. I'm being funny here on the afternoon. Um, so, uh, tell us what you do there at your company where you, uh, do the consulting for leadership and train people, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. Um, so through counseling, right.

Starting point is 00:06:46 I get the opportunity to work directly with individuals, groups, families about, you know, working through challenges so that way we can be at our best. And those same principles, I think, work well with organizations and with companies, because once we can tap into, you know, the root cause of our challenges and we build strategy around it and actually go into depth with, you know, why we think the way we think, why we behave the way we behave. It can help us in any area of life, whether personal or our relationships and organizations and in companies, particularly when it comes to business. You know, I've come to discover this, that, you know, no organization in many ways can outgrow its leadership, you know, because at the end of the day, we're people that we often thrive off of

Starting point is 00:07:37 understanding, you know, how to get where we need to get. That's leadership, right? Individuals who can help take us from one place to the next. And whether it's in our personal relationships, whether it's in an office setting, whether it's in a business setting, community organization, at the end of the day, it's people working with people. And there's skills and there's strategies and there's things that can be taught to help us get the best out of ourselves and others. There you go. And that's really what leaders have to do is provide servant leadership, help to get the best you can out of your workers, the most productivity,

Starting point is 00:08:18 and kind of help them achieve their goals, make them fulfilled with their work. Everyone wants to do work that is fulfilling and where they think they matter and they have respected and they're, and they have some dignity. That's right. Um, you know, we're seeing a lot of that going on with a lot of the union battles going on around the nation where workers are like, Hey man, we want some dignity. We want some respect. We want to earn a good wage. In fact, it's kind of, it's kind of interesting.

Starting point is 00:08:38 Unions are, are now more popular in polls right now than ever before. And, uh, I think it's a good thing because, you know, we kind of had this whole, you know, thing where it's like, hey, just everyone work, and if we don't like you, throw you away. And now it seems like there's more competition for workers ever since COVID and a lot of people retiring early. And so now more than ever, leaders have to identify that turnover, especially if you lose good people, usually comes from poor leadership.

Starting point is 00:09:13 Most people don't quit a job just basically over money. A lot of times they quit because their boss is an idiot or a very poor leader. Or not valued. Yeah, there you go. Right? And when we value people, it increases productivity. Mm-hmm. And these things can be taught. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:09:36 Most definitely. I mean, increasing productivity is so important. So in your counseling services, you've been doing this since 2001. You deal with personal issues social issues marital family problems substance abuse issues trauma uh and you work with adults couples families children over a plus boy all those issues are what i'm up to on any given friday yeah yeah so um what are some ways that you you find uh you've been able to help people or maybe what are some popular challenges you see people struggling with now in 2023 yeah some that

Starting point is 00:10:15 really stand out are your well familiar ones you know obviously anxiety depression people those are my favorite. And then from there, you know, it's important for me to understand their story. And I think that's so important. I remember going to a training one time and if something really stood out that somebody said, it said, you know, before we ask what's wrong with somebody, first find out what happened to them. So a big part is to understand people's story and we need to create a safe space to do that. And, you know, obviously in therapy, I do an assessment where I learn more about them. And we start with that road of understanding who they are, where they're coming from, because in many ways, the client is going to be the expert on their own life. They've lived through it. They've experienced it. So create a safe space. Then we need to deal

Starting point is 00:11:19 with the root cause issues that are creating the problems. And we go there and we unpack that, try to process it, try to help that individual gain some perspective on it. Because we can't go back and change what happened, but we can change our perspective and we can change our response. And it's amazing to see what happens when you give people a space to allow them to share their story, let them to be the expert on their story and realize that the story is still being written. And we build out strategies. We build out tools to help that individual reach their potential. And it never gets old when you see people go from depressed to being or being living more fulfilled lives.

Starting point is 00:12:05 Anxiety going down. One thing I've noticed is in years of doing this, and that is one of the greatest anecdotes to fear, anxiety, depression, emotional issues is purpose. When we understand what we're created for, what we're called to do, then that gives us a clear target to work towards. And along the way to that target, right, we have to do certain things to get there. We have to address certain things to get there. So in many ways, I see myself as kind of a navigation system, a guide to help individuals deal with those traumas or those painful things so that we can ultimately get them to their goals. There you go.

Starting point is 00:12:50 You find that a lot of people, when you sit down and you listen to them and you ask them what their story is, you find that's probably what a lot of people are thrashing about and suffering with is no one's listening to them. No one cares about their story. No one wants to listen. We kind of live in this society where we don't listen to each other much. In fact, whatever you're saying, I missed because I was looking at my phone.

Starting point is 00:13:14 I'm sure you missed all of it. Exactly. What? What did you say again? I was checking Twitter or bankruptcy, whatever it's called. But no, we don't listen to each other. And we kind of need more of that, maybe. Instead of assuming, we see this in politics, society, we see this in business.

Starting point is 00:13:36 We just assume, well, I'm sure his story is whatever. But understanding what people's story is, correct me if I'm wrong, and understanding you kind of can get inside their head on what their motivation is that's what makes them tick and then if you can help them understand their motive what motivates them you can help uh motivate them in leadership positions that's exactly right yeah you know a safe space means, for me, without judgment. Because a lot of times, by the time someone gets to me, they've already made some important decisions. One being, I need help. And that decision right there in of itself, in many ways, can be a game changer.

Starting point is 00:14:21 How we get person help, there's layers to it. There's obviously some things we can go through, but I hope somebody's out there listening right now. You may be going through something and you don't have the answers, but it starts with just understanding. I don't have to have all the answers. I might just need to decide to act on what I feel and that being, I need help. The first step is to kind of admit you have a problem, you need help. And that's the beautiful thing. We've talked about this a lot on the show about how stories are the onerous manual to life. And that's how we learn from each

Starting point is 00:14:56 other. Because I didn't get an onerous manual. I don't know about you. Maybe the post office is better on your end of the states. But it sucks out where I'm at. And so this is how we learn from each other. And it's also how we identify that we're not alone. That's right. And that's really important. And I think that's also important from what you said earlier about how we need to listen to each other and we need to hear each other's stories because that also helps us understand that, hey, I'm not alone. Somebody else has got this issue.

Starting point is 00:15:25 That's right. And maybe they have found a way out of the mess, out of the thicket, out of the forest, the wilderness and mirrors. Maybe they found a way through it, and they can help me. Yeah, and that's what our coaches, our mentors, our leaders, the people in our lives help us right, being a sounding board. Some folks, it's therapy. For some, it may be, right, reaching out to their girlfriend or that friend, that trusted advisor, someone that's just not wanting to tell us what we want to hear.

Starting point is 00:16:02 Yeah. You know, we need folks, I believe, in our lives, Chris, that will call us out on our stuff. But at the same time, we'll speak the truth in love to us. Yeah. Speak the truth in love because we all are going to face some challenges, some adversity. And we need to talk about this, you know, this whole stigma that sometimes people put around counseling. Because at the end of the day, right, you know, whatever you find therapeutic, if it's helping you, we don't need to have a stigma around it. We all are going to experience some challenges. We're all going to have some adversity. And we all can gain, right, from having people that are going to pour into our lives in a

Starting point is 00:16:41 positive way. Definitely. And surrounding yourself with good people, people that know what they're doing is important as well. But, you know, asking for help, learning, educating, trying to find ways are so much better than just being stuck in depression or whatever sort of issue you're having. The one thing that was on your website I found that was very interesting is you have something called the five things every leader must know. Should we dig into that a little bit? I thought it was really interesting. You've got five things that every leader must know. Do you want me to read off the lead off with you?

Starting point is 00:17:16 Sure. Go ahead. Number one is recognize that people are your most valuable asset. Why is that important? Because I think, Chris, I believe people fuel success. And every person has intrinsic value, regardless to our decisions and our mistakes. And particularly thinking about what's going on in the world right now, right? Which is not new. Some of the challenges we're facing.

Starting point is 00:17:46 It's so easy behind our phone or our computer to make a decision on someone and label and judge. Labels help us process and make sense of the world, right? But at the same time, again, back to that story. If you learn someone's story, if you learn someone's history, we may still have our judgment on them. And that is what it is. Right. You know, you can judge a tree by the fruit that it bears. I get that. But at the end of the day, if we if a foundational principle is that every person has value and has worth, then we can hopefully see each other through more of a clean lens in how we deal with each other. Because our most valuable asset, it's not just our GDP.

Starting point is 00:18:33 It's not just what the stock market says. It's in people. We have value, and I think we should treat each other such. There you go. Now, are you sure everyone has value because i have some family members you haven't met clearly no hey i i'd love to meet them i bet there's a lot of value there there's no that's a very counselor answer there right yeah there you go there you have very diplomatic there you go very political uh so uh the um

Starting point is 00:19:02 you bring up a great point we have a hindbrain in our system where when we see faces, when we see people, we make quick judgments calls. And usually it's fight or flight sort of things. Is this person coming towards me a danger? Which is very, I mean, it's really cavemanic because most people in society are coming towards you in the danger that you might pass in the street unless they ask for money or, you know, they're part of the moonies or something. Then you can, you know, whatever. But, you know, but I recognize this. I think it was 2016, 2017. I went on a journey after seeing a lot of racial strife, um, with the change over presidents.

Starting point is 00:19:45 And I thought, you know, I, I was seeing all these terms that were being used, uh, white nationalists and different things. And I thought, you know, I, I pretty sure I I've cleaned out, you know, any sort of bias issues I have, but, um, I want to do an experiment and I want to walk around and, and, and kind of start paying attention to how I see people when I meet people. And so I started doing this experiment where I would go to the store and I start listening to myself, you know, so I'd see a biker guy who looks like me, you know, he's got like a big biking jacket and Harley Davidson or whatever. And I think, oh, you know,

Starting point is 00:20:23 that guy looks like he's done some prison time maybe you know sold some drugs and probably belongs in a harley davidson gang care probably carries a weapon you know and i started listening to what you know assumptions i was making about people you know then i started kind of giving him a second look and being like you know he just seems like kind of a old guy like me who's you know he likes harley's motorcycles i don't know he's sold drugs i don't know he's some bad guy i don't know if he carries a weapon you know maybe he just likes you know leather's good if you fall off your motorcycle and you know it's it's good for keeping you from skinning yourself to death

Starting point is 00:21:00 and uh maybe he just likes it for a look you know it's kind of a it's kind of a good look i don't know anything about that guy and i started listening to myself talk about you know the judgments i was making about people and we all do it it's it's a very caveman hindbrand thing but i think being focused on it and saying you know hey man like where the fuck did you jump to assumptions on that you don't you don't know this person from adam for all you know they're a for all you know they're a saint they go to church every week and you that you don't you don't know this person from adam for all you know they're a for all you know they're a saint they go to church every week and you know you don't you don't know anything about these people you know and so that really kind of helped me to tune into what was going on behind brain stuff and i think we need more of that and that's

Starting point is 00:21:37 listening to people's story yeah and and i think you touched on something important there, Chris, and that's you need to be curious enough to even do that investigation. So that's where awareness comes in because we all may have presumption and biases and first assumptions about people. My question is, you know, so it's okay to have a first impression or make an assumption.

Starting point is 00:22:01 The question is, am I married to that? Am I locked in on that? Is that a fixed position? Or am I open enough? Am I curious enough to go to the next level and actually get to know someone? That's a different dimension there. If I care enough, if I'm curious enough to actually get to know someone. There you go. And so I did that. I walked up to the Harley Davidson guy who looked like me and I said, Hey man, uh, hold up my hand. I said, uh, you know, I want, I want to get to know you better and your story.

Starting point is 00:22:32 And he said, Hey man, you want to buy some heroin? I said, no. And he shot me and then run me over this motorcycle and then his gang come up and finish beat me up. So I guess what was wrong. So there, that kind of, that kind of spoiled that ended well. Yeah, it did not end well. Yeah, it did not end well. No, it did not end well.

Starting point is 00:22:46 But I try and keep an open mind for everyone else. Your second. I'm playing it. We got to have humor involved. Got to have. Your second note is lead by example. Why is that important? I've heard it put this way.

Starting point is 00:23:02 People don't often do what we just hope, right? People do often what we show and where we're willing to take people. If we call ourselves a leader and nobody's walking alongside us or following with us, then we're just kind of, you know, positioning ourselves in more of an authoritative position. When you see the CEO, when you see the leader, when you see the person who may have the nice parking spot or the nice lofty office, but when you see that individual is also a part of the fight, they're willing to pick up a piece of paper, a trash on the floor as well. When we'll treat the janitor as well as we'll treat the CEO, it shows that we can tap into point number one, that we all have value. And leaders who are willing to show the way versus just talk about the way are going to have more buy in. Definitely. It's going to ultimately lead to more productivity when the leaders in the building, in the room, show value and show that

Starting point is 00:24:07 we're all an integral part of the success. There you go. And you talk about something called practice what you preach in Lead by Example. So I have to do all that bullshit I just made up, told everyone else to do? Well, I've heard it put this way, Chris. It's better to see a sermon than hear a sermon. Ah, I like that analogy. Yeah. There we go. If you can see it in someone's life, it's just going to resonate more.

Starting point is 00:24:33 And people are going to tend to fight for that leader who they know is invested. Definitely. And is willing to roll their sleeves up as well. Yeah. I mean, you want someone who's working beside you, and that's the beauty of servant leadership. Number three is assist in creating a positive working environment. Now, this seems antithetical because where's the fun

Starting point is 00:24:54 in a positive working environment? I mean, when there's stress and drama and infighting, I mean, blood sports going on, cage matches, that's where the real fun is in a work environment. Absolutely not. HR just pinged my phone. They want to see me after this. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:25:15 That's not going to go over well. Right. But no, an environment conducive for success has some things in it. One, right, a spirit of collaboration. You hear some people go around saying, you know, I work for so-and-so. I work for Jim. I work for Sarah. Well, I think there's a higher purpose when we say, you know, I work towards a mission. Now, I believe in authority. I believe in, you know, following authority and chain of command and all of that. But when you get individuals who are married to a mission,

Starting point is 00:25:53 who understand that the environment we all have to play in, when we all have a healthy environment, we can bring the fun into work. We can bring the joy into work. We can tap into our purpose because we realize that we're all pulling for the same team here. We're all heading up that mountain together. So if we're going to head up a mountain, I don't know about you, Chris, but if I'm heading up a mountain with a group of people, okay. Uh, we want some people with some, with some pretty decent attitudes along the way, right? Yeah. Most definitely. We got to have a good team uh the number four uh clearly articulate your vision this is really important yeah why is why is it important because a vision that's not clearly articulated right just leaves room for miscommunication for multiple agendas, and ultimately a decrease in efficiency.

Starting point is 00:26:49 It's about having clear targets. And people just don't do what we think. They're going to oftentimes follow what we say and what we show. And that needs to be clearly articulated. So great leaders in many ways are great communicators. It's one thing to have a vision. It's another thing to be able to clearly articulate the vision where everybody can see it and work towards it. There you go. And if you don't communicate right, like a lot of times when people fail at something I've given them or a task I've given them, the first question I ask myself is, did I communicate it correctly?'s right. And then I fire him. No,

Starting point is 00:27:25 I'm just kidding. And then I try and reinforce that communication and go, okay, do we, do we communicate? Are we on the same page? Oh no, Chris,

Starting point is 00:27:33 you know, you told me to go for it, Chris, but you didn't say over there. Right. So I just assumed it was over there, but you didn't specifically say over there. And,

Starting point is 00:27:42 and I'm, I'm accountable enough to go. Yeah, that's my, that's on me. And so that's an important thing to know as a leader and go, okay, do we give them the right communication? How can we do better and make sure we communicate effectively? Because, you know, it's the same as like a football team.

Starting point is 00:28:02 You know, as a coach, you give people the play and, you know, it's, you know, hey, it as a football team. As a coach, you give people the play. It's a running play, so I want you to run right and go down the field over by the sideline there and catch the ball. If you don't tell them which sideline it is, they're over on the other sideline. The quarterback's going, Hey, that dude isn't, where the hell is he? Communication is key to everything in the big game yeah there you go uh let's see what we have uh number five allow for the creativity of others and helping them shine

Starting point is 00:28:34 uh why is this important yeah it goes it ties in right to that positive work environment that creativity and ideas flow when people don't feel kneecapped. Right. And that takes a certain amount of confidence in leaders who say, I want to raise up other leaders. Right. So that takes a certain amount of security because sometimes we may feel like, well, I don't want them to take my shine or my name is out front and I don't want them to take my shine. But I've come to discover leaders who create a ladder for leadership, leaders who invest in others realize that they're not going to have to worry about their own shine because people will shout them out, give them credit and give them their accolades because they're secure enough to understand that when you're great, it helps me be great. Iron sharpens iron. And when we all bring our skills and our tools and our attributes to the table, we can grow. You know, I always say if you find yourself in the find yourself in a room where you're the smartest person, sometimes we need to find a new room. Because we all need some people that can pour into us,

Starting point is 00:29:53 and I think we need some people that we can pour into as well. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I always do is I assume like what you've talked about. I assume that I'm not the smartest person in the room, and that's why I love our show. But, but,

Starting point is 00:30:07 and, and part of it is, is even if you're in a room and you think you're the smartest person in the room, you really need to go back and do what we talked about earlier, get to know people and listen to their stories. And then you'll find they're very smart. And then you'll find you can learn stuff from their stories like we do on the

Starting point is 00:30:24 show. Yeah. So that's really important as well. And people, and those, I was talking about just, and then you'll find you can learn stuff from their stories like we do on the show. Yeah. So that's really important as well. And people, you know, I was talking about this, Chris, because I've been talking with some clients here recently who have been talking to me about their workplace situations. I had a gentleman tell me earlier today, he was like, you know, if the boss hires his son, man, you know, who I don't think is ready for the job,

Starting point is 00:30:43 I'm quitting right then. You know, and then I had another client today who said, who's in a really difficult work situation and now is in this thriving environment. She's like, I don't have to like, you know, just feel like I'm not hurt, you know, just, just hurting cats. It's like, people are doing what people are contributing. I, you know know people are happy to be here and it's we spend so much time on our jobs so when we create an environment conducive for creativity and uh and and and for people to know that they can flourish and thrive man everybody wins there you go there you go uh i think we covered most of this but are there any other ways we can better inspire the next generation of leaders?

Starting point is 00:31:28 Yeah, really good question. I appreciate you asking that. I think a lot of it has to do, Chris, with doing things like what you're doing. What I mean by that is when we share our platforms, when we are risk takers and say, hey, you know what? Let me do something. Let me start a vision. Open it up to people. Put my name and put my reputation on the line and share. People are going to hear about it. They want to be a part of it. And I think that's good news for the next generation. And I'm seeing it. So that's one of the positives about social media. I know social

Starting point is 00:32:09 media can get a lot of different raps and it's obviously a double-edged sword. But one of the things I like about it is that everybody gets a platform. Now that's one of the not so great things about it as well, that everybody gets a platform, right? But those who understand the platform and understand that we all have gifts, skills, and talents that we can bring to the table, we can start from where we are. We don't have to have all the answers. Sometimes we just got to be willing to take that risk, you know, and take that, what Price Pritchett says in his book, you know, make that quantum leap. You know, there's some organizations and people who just kind of prod along and just, you know, try to just push that rock up the mountain incrementally. Some people put it on the line and take a risk. So I think that's how we help inspire the next generation.

Starting point is 00:33:00 Whatever's in you that I believe that God put in you that he wants to get out of you put it on the line put it out in the marketplace test it out you'll figure some you'll figure a lot of it out as you go we don't have to have all the answers and know how it's all going to play out sometimes it's just honoring what's in you those Those gifts, those skills, those attributes. There you go. And we listen to ourselves. We listen to other people and build from there. And I imagine self-care plays a part of this. How do we take better care of ourselves in knowing what we need and trying to get others to listen to us like you talk about? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:40 I say first, see it as important. Realize that self-care is not selfish. It's hard to serve from an empty well. So our mental, our physical, our emotional, our spiritual health, that if we all can say, what are my investments in those areas? And when we build those pillars out, what am I doing for my mental health? What my physical health, spiritual, emotional health? And we put together some strategies and some principles. We're going to be able to show up better for ourselves and show up for others.

Starting point is 00:34:11 So self-care is so important. We take care of ourselves. We can help take care of other people. We listen to ourselves. We make sure we're squared up. Then we can help other people get squared up. And that's leadership, technically. In a nutshell.

Starting point is 00:34:27 Michael, give us your pitch out. How can people onboard with you? How can they get involved? How can they get your consulting and dot coms as we go out? Yeah, they can go right to my website there. I think you're going to tag it in. It's brownsleadership.com. And on Twitter, X On Twitter, I'm

Starting point is 00:34:46 at mtbrown98 on Facebook. Michael T. Brown, the brown bag. You can connect with me there. Yeah, I'm not too far away. I look forward to connecting with people. There you go. Check out his website, folks. Reach out to him. People can

Starting point is 00:35:02 purchase the book there, too. A beautiful challenge as well, correct? Yes, sir. And I also do a speaking engagement, so I would love to connect with people in that way as well. And then your contact information looks like is on the website. It's your phone number, your email, all that good stuff. That's right. It's all on there.

Starting point is 00:35:18 There you go. Well, thank you very much for coming on the show. We really appreciate it, man. Thank you. I appreciate you having me. Thank you. And thanks, Matt, for going to share with us today and also referring the friends, neighbors, relatives, all the good stuff that's there. Go to

Starting point is 00:35:34 goodreads.com, Fortuness Chris Voss, youtube.com, Fortuness Chris Voss. See the big LinkedIn group, 130,000 people, the LinkedIn newsletter. Also go to Chris Voss 1 on the Tickety Talkety and also go to ChrisVossFacebook.com.

Starting point is 00:35:49 You'll see our group over there on Facebook and you can have chats with us in the show. Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe and we'll see you guys next time.

The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – A Beautiful Challenge, Building Healthy Relationships by Michael T. Brown

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