The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – A Bun Dance by Penelope Bourdillon

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

A Bun Dance by Penelope Bourdillon Penelopebourdillon.com https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bun-Dance-Penelope-Bourdillon/dp/1637672772 The Bible is many things: a library; history books; a collection of wise sayings, and much, much more. Most importantly it reveals the secrets of life: who we are; what is our purpose; how we should live; what is our destiny? It is centered in Jesus who reveals what God is really like. A gentle Father, overflowing with tender love and mercy towards us. A God who sings, laughs, grieves, shouts for joy, longs for company, and - He has a sense of humor. All this is found in the Bible that this book describes: it contains jokes! Read it and laugh, smile, wonder, and then give thanks for the help you find. ----------------------------------------- Reviews: Throughout my ordained ministry I have longed to get people to engage with scripture more openly and faithfully and, above all, sensibly. Scripture requires interpretation, not wholesale, literal acceptance; it both demands and repays reflection, and it is a source upon which to draw at different times, in various circumstances. Properly and faithfully handled, inquiringly understood, and lovingly absorbed, it will afford great nourishment and deep comfort. I commend this book as a welcome effort designed to encourage engagement, discovery and comfort. - The Most Reverend John Davies, sometime Archbishop of Wales and Bishop of Swansea and Brecon. Penelope's style is delightful and unique. As I was reading what she had written I felt that I was listening to her speaking... My prayer is that it may reach many families who normally do not go to church. - Revd Prebendary John Collins, Prebendary of St. Paul's Cathedral and former Vicar of Holy Trinity Brompton.

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Because you're about to go on a moment. Monster Education Roller Coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. I'm Osz here from thecrisvonshow.com. Ladies and gentlemen, they are the latest things that makes official. Welcome to the big show. As always, for 16 years. Over 2,500 episodes, we were bringing in the smartest minds.

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are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the Chris Foss show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it's not an endorsement or review of any kind. It's an amazing young lady on the show. We're going to be talking about many of her wonderful books that she has and some of her writings and thoughts and how different things have changed her life through her involvement with God and religion, et cetera, et cetera. She's the author of her latest book, I think, out called A Bun Dance. That's A Bun Dance. And if you get that, it's a play in words. July 20th,

2021, it came out. Penelope Burdalen joins us on the show. Penelope, did I get your last theme right? I forgot to double check that. What was that? What was the correct pronunciation of your last name? I want to make sure I got that right. You know, you talk so fast. I can't sometimes quite get it. Is your last name for Dylan? Oh, last name, Bor Dylan. Yes, it is. There you go. Okay. I wanted to make sure, normally I checked that before the show.

Yeah, but just sometimes you talk terribly fast. I miss. I'll try and talk terribly slow. Well, sort of in between. So welcome the show, Penelope. Give us any dot-coms, any websites. Where do you want people to find you on the interwebs? Thank you very much. And what dot-coms can people find you on the interwebs?

Well, I've got a website, penelope-bordillan.com, which isn't as good as it's going to be. It's going to be very good one day. but anyway stay tuned now you have a passion for spreading the word of God far and wide

but you're not an evangelist you long for friends to share in the joy that you've received in accepting your saviour and committed your life to God when you were about 50 and you talk about deep faith you've read lots of books and helping other people

and sharing your life and your insights give us a 30,000 an overview of what's in this book, Abund, Dance. I was given, actually given, that's very strange title about, oh gosh, quite soon after my husband died, which was 20-something years ago. And somebody said, are you ever going, will you write another books? I'd just finish one. And I said, no, never again.

I never meant to write any of them, really, but they have written themselves. And as I said it, this extraordinary sequence of words came, A, bun, dance. And of course, it's God's abundance. And so during COVID, I sat myself down every afternoon because it was so lovely. There were no chores to do it. Well, I just overlooked the chores. And the weather was lovely and I worked at my garden or morning. and I bubbled with my son and his family

and I had a wonderful time during COVID and I'd got boxes and boxes full of stuff that I'd scribbled down if I'd been to some lecture or something and sort of godly things and I got them all laid out on the table and I kind of sorted them into the odd chapter and things and the book called abundance, abundance,

kind of wrote itself. And then rather sadly, because some dear friends illustrated it for me and did the front cover, but everybody thought that it was a children's book. They were sort of rather childish, I mean, very clever drawings. But I think it took away from the actual text, because although I mean it to be not very, very heavy, and I love God and one must not enjoy oneself. I wanted it to be the sort of book that people think,

hey, this Bible thing isn't really quite so deadly dull as I thought it was. And I tried to bring out, oh, there are so many wonderful biblical quotes that are just interesting and fun and let's enjoy it. You know, I think God, I know he's fearsome and awesome in many ways, but God, he's got a sense of humour too. And, I mean, I don't mean that in a sort of silly way, but he is an amazing God. And there's so much to be joyful about and hopeful for.

And there's just, I can't really put it all into words. I'm much better at writing than I am at talking. I'm better at talking than writing, so I've got that. Yeah, lucky you. Yes. Now, I think in your bio it said that you discovered God or religion maybe when you turned 50 or your 50? I'm not religious. I'm not in the same.

No, absolutely not. Spiritual, perhaps, I hope. All I care about. is having a relationship with God. I honestly don't. I mean, I went to church all my life because my parents did and then my husband did. And I thought it was deadly.

I said all the right things. And I just thought that's what one did on a Sunday. And then suddenly, when I was over 50, things happened. And life's never been the same again since. Wow. Well, and you're sharing the message now, the subtitle of this book is basically how to enjoy reading your Bible, abundance. Tell us how that integrates the bun dancing or abundance, as it were, with the Bible and how to enjoy it. God, nothing's too small for God, and equally nothing's too big for him.

and you can the most important thing that anybody I think can ever have during this transitory life that we have on the earth is to realize that God is a friend I think I find it easier to say that Jesus is a friend I think God still rather

is a little bit awful to call one of a friend, but oh, I just cannot know the peace and the joy and just, you see, I can't put it into words. Well, that sounds like it's found in your book. Well, I hope it comes through them because I just, I so want other people to discover what. I have found. And I wasn't looking for it particularly. It just happened one day and the scales fell off my eyes.

And I can't talk to my friends or my family about it because they all think I've gone a bit funny, I think, really. Really? And I just want them to find what I have found because I think I'm very, very blessed to do so because I have never lost the joy that I have in my heart when I first found Jesus.

Now, you have some other books, too. Pretty interesting. People can find on your website, and I believe on Amazon. Hope in the Valley, a companion in Times of Bereavement. You want to tell us a little bit about that book? That, I love that. It's a fun info book. And I wrote it about six years after my husband had died

because I thought to myself I can perhaps help a few people even one person would be better than nothing, to find, well, not just fall into the same holes that I fell into of sort of ditches after my husband died, because I thought, if I could just write something to encourage them, and I mean, it is hellish when you lose somebody that you really have, I've spent 40-something years with him, and he was, my best friend. And he just, it's like being sort of torn apart. And everything we've lived for for all those years has just suddenly gone. But there's no point sticking around with a long face because nobody wants to know anybody who's miserable. You know, they don't. Let's

believe bursting into tears when I talked to one of the children after a few. few weeks and she didn't ring again for a bit and I thought come on pick yourself up and get on and he would have said in fact he used to say to me something because he was a little bit older than I am and he'd say

oh I'll go long before you do he said you'll have to find somebody else a slight pause and then he said we'll leave it a few weeks or leave it a few weeks I love it and here I am 24 years later and I don't well I'm

just looking forward to seeing him again. Anyway, there we are. But, you know, there is life after a really miserable time. And that's what I wanted to show in Hope in the Valley, because, and you know, still, it must be about, he died 24 years ago, and I wrote it six years later, so it must be, my master isn't very good, about 16 years. And people are still buying it and sending me the most,

wonderful letters, all completely different. I had one just a very short time ago, how it really helped people. One lovely lady who I'd never heard of, never met, she said, she read it three times in the first week after her husband had died and she couldn't have done without it. And I just do like that book. I mean, it's quite small and you can put it in your pocket. And it, I think, has helped people, perhaps not everybody who's ready, but I have had wonderful, wonderful feedback, and I just, and it's sort of timeless, I hope it'll go on, you know, for a long time, helping people. You know, that's the beautiful thing about sharing our stories, our cathartic moments, even sometimes in the darkest of times.

It's all about how we react to those moments and how we survive them. You know, we had somebody on yesterday who survived, who survived cancer twice, and, you know, that's a, that's a hell of a thing to be faced with. And, you know, sharing our stories, you know, we find that, you know, there's been times where I've been, I felt I was all alone in the world. Like, I was just under, you know, whatever the universe would add me on its list for persecution. And you get in that space where you feel victimized and just everything coming at you is like, well, this is, the world. world and universe hates me clearly and it's hard to get out and so when you find other people who had other ways that maybe they were going through the same thing you find number one you're not alone and number two you find a blueprint as we call on the show to help get out of you know the jam

you might be in or maybe you know if you listen to one of our shows and you know we're talking today about a being widowed and a spouse of i think you said 40 plus years going you know there are people out there, and maybe they'll hear this show, and maybe it won't matter to them much, and then one day it may happen to them, and they can go, oh, I remember that time on the Chris Vos show. There was a wonderful young lady on the show, and she had a blueprint for how to survive this moment. And that's really the beauty of what we do and sharing stories with each other in books like yourselves. Good. Mm-hmm. Well, it's so lovely. There you go. Go ahead. Well, I was just wondering, would you like to know about the four graces?

Yes, let's get into that one. I was just about to pull that up. Because that, I never meant to write a book, ever. It was the millennium, it was ready for the millennium year, so it must have been just the end of last century. And a very great friend of mine, we have a very big agricultural show in our little market town, because I'm in a very remote part of Wales, right up in the hills.

But the one thing that happens is that it's the biggest agricultural show in Europe. And people come from all over Wales and further afield. And it's quite a big thing. And this friend's husband was president in the millennium year. And they had to make a lot of money to the president always has to. And so she asked me to write a prayer for this prayer book that she was going to assemble. And I said rather stupidly, oh, it's going to be an awfully dull book. Everybody will say, God bless the hills and the valleys and make it a nice show, amen.

So that we went our way. And the next time I saw her, she said, yes, I've been thinking about what you said. I think you must do all the text. and because she's a professional artist and she painted every single Anglican church in Radnyshire there were 63 of them and so quite a thing to get round

and it was probably raining when she got there and she couldn't paint and anyway she did her lovely pictures of the churches and I had to do the text and I had such fun doing it and we had fun together it took us about a year I've sort of a lot of telephone calls

backwards and forwards and anyway it came out and between us we knew a lot of people in Wales and I think people brought it just to be rather kind to us and then I came back for more

and more and more and it just flew off the shelves and there we were two rather stupid middle age women doing this book but it worked and so it was amazing and it just anyway that's a long time ago now so then we did another one which we thought would be the same and it never was it was actually probably a much better book but it rather sort of sat around on the shelves I don't I think it was a bit sort of deeper and because the other one you can pick up and just read of

chapter, not a chapter, just a page. And it just appealed. And the next one didn't. So that was that. And I thought, you know, I never meant to write anything. Well, fate has an interesting way. Sorry, what was that? Fate kind of has an interesting way that way, huh?

It does. God works in very mysterious ways. And I didn't quite know that then, I don't think. So anyway, on we went. and there was a lapse and then my husband died and then I wrote Hope in the Valley and that was when somebody said are you going to write another book and I said no never again

but a bun dogs followed and then they're all completely different like books and some are more about God than others and then I did a very frivolous one which I haven't told you, given you It's called Rhymes Without Reason. And that's just a bit of fun. So if anybody wanted to read something rather silly and frivolous, it'll be on my website.

But then came Penkerig. Yes, the next book. Yes. And that was very different. And it's all about a rather lovely house in Mid Wales. and I won't go into details because I'll just hold it up to you because it might be able to see that it is rather a lovely house.

Is it a novel or a history book? No, it's about my husband's grandmother and it stopped me if I go into too much detail but she inherited two lovely estates in Mid Wales from her mother's family and from her father's family. came quite a lot of money from mining royalties and things

not to be thought about too much nowadays. Anyway, so she suddenly had all this money and wonderful estates and she built schools and chapels and churches and it did an immense amount of good. This was sort of mid-18th century and sadly now Now, this, we, my husband and I lived in one of these lovely houses, which my son, we downsized, and my son now lives there.

And this, this one is now falling into a terrible state of disrepair. It was very sad. And some rather amazing things happened there because it was all to do, well, not all to do, but it was, Am I going on too much about it? No, you're fine. You're fine. It is sort of quite interesting to Welsh people anyway. The Welsh revival

in the 18th century before the big one took place just a little bit down the valley and Howell Harris, who was one of the instigators of that revival, used to go to Pencarry a lot. And it's amazing.

And Thomas Jones, the very well-known, he's the second best-known artist in Wales in the 18th century. And he lived there for a long time. So it's got quite a national importance, and we're trying to sort of stop it falling down. And Thomas Jones' pictures are now, there are some for sale, they're really wonderful pictures. so there's a lot to recommend the story about it and the same lovely artist friend of me she's working very hard to try and preserve it for the nation and she said to me

I suppose two or three years ago she said I think you ought to write something about pen carrying I thought she meant just a little sort of brochure or something and I was a bit busy at the time and I didn't do much about it so I said to her well what were you thinking how many pages

and she said oh about 50 or 60 and I said I can't do that I don't know you know I thought it would just be about seven or eight little leaflet and I started I started

what's the word A bit of more that you could chew yes just reading about it And the more I read, the more I was drawn in. And it was so fascinating. So having lived in one of these houses all those years, I learned so much about it. And I must have to tell you a silly little story, this wonderful great grandmother of my husband,

she used to go between the two houses. They were about 12 miles apart. And up hills and down, you know, up and down, quite a tricky journey. and she used to take her house cows and her grand piano and quite a lot of luggage, I would think, and she'd go down in the autumn and spend the winters down there and then she'd come up in the spring again

bringing the cows and the piano and everything else back with her. When I first came to the village, little village in Wales, There were several lovely old ladies then, and they used to say it was just, it was as if the queen was coming back, and they were all allowed to the day off school, and it was a real excitement. So it was such fun researching that book, so I learned a lot about it. So anyway, that's enough about that. Awesome sauce. Awesome sauce. So we cover the books.

Do we cover the Onion book? That is my testament. just because what happened was when I had one of those moments and the scales fell from my eyes and very extraordinarily and I somebody told me that I must write a journal but I'm not very good at writing journals but so many amazing things happened I would sit down at the end of about say a month and just quickly type out an A4 sheet of what had happened and I kept all this and I thought what's all this stuff what am I going to do with it you know I don't want all this these

things that have happened to me anyway I then decided after a few years that I'd just self-publish it and send it to some of my sort of enlightened friends because by that time I'd sort of got a lot of lovely Christian people and it's such a divisive word, isn't it, Christian? Because I'd been a Christian all my life. But I haven't seen the light. Do you know what I mean? I don't. I'm an atheist, but I'll take your word for it.

Oh, oh, well, I'll tell you what it's like. It's like having a rather blurred television that you can just about see the image. And suddenly you switch the aerial in and you see a clear picture. Get that perfect picture. We used to have those TVs when we were kids, when I was a kid at least. Yeah. Well, you know what I mean. You're younger than me, so.

Don't be like that. I love big old, and I'm not... Well, I'm flattery. We try everything we can on the show to make our guests feel good. So, plus it makes me feel younger. I don't know. I don't know what I'm talking about. As we go out, any other books we want to talk about?

I know there's rhymes without reason, but it's a book. That's completely dottie. it is because they tried to make the people who have published some of the other's books they said oh you must write some more and I said no I don't want to

I never wanted to write any of them and they said oh yes you must because then this and that and I then suddenly thought that I'd when I'd had a lovely time just in the last sort of 20 years if I'd had a nice holiday or done things with somebody

I very often wrote a sort of silly rhyme thing to say thank you. And I kept a copy of them all. And I thought they were after me to write something else. And I said, well, I have got some rather funny, well, sort of silly, funny things and sent them a few. And they said, oh, yes, that'll be lovely. They'll see the other side to you. You know that you're, because I am not religious. I do want you to know that.

because I'm not religion, I think, is a funny thing. And this is totally unlike any sort of godly book. It's just me having a very nice time with lots of different people in different parts of the world and all over the place. And it's called Rhymes Without Reason. And if anybody wants to have a bit of a sort of laugh, very inconsequential, but it's just a bit of fun. There you go.

Any future books maybe you're working on or different things? No, because I've just reset, the typeset, all the abundance. Because having taken out the pictures, of course, all the texts went wrong. And I have gone nearly mad. I really have. I am quite a long way around the bend. because it's taken so long to do, and I think never again. But I think what I'm going to try and do is a blog,

because then I can just do what I'm thinking about, because I do sometimes have an idea that I want to share with people. And as I say, I'm not very good at talking, and I'm certainly no evangelist. And if anyone, the moment I know somebody's a believer, I'm sorry about you, but I can then talk all day about God, but I cannot say to somebody you need Jesus in your life. Yeah, it's something a lot of people have to discover on their own.

Sorry, what was that? I think it's something people have to discover on their own, really? You can't do it for anybody else. yeah yeah it's kind of like um it's kind of like uh tacos you have to discover on your own to find out how good it is yeah so at the moment nothing but you never know i mean as i say i never i never meant to write any of the other ones so but i think i'm i'm too old now oh you're never too old we have uh we have one young lady on the show i think she's 90 or 95 she's put out probably 100 books, novels.

She comes on, she's been on the show probably more than anyone, and she's she just keeps pumping out these books. So you're never too old. No, but she's a proper author. I never really meant to be. Oh, come on. You've got four or five books now. I think at four or five

you can qualify as a proper author. Yeah. Certainly, most barely get one out, if they get it at all. Well, I'm very kind, but I think it'll have to be a blog from now. Well, you know, and people love that. They love following up with their favorite authors. They like knowing what's going on. Some of the things they're doing is a great way to keep a nice community for your audience that loves

your work. And so I highly recommend doing it because I do one and it annoys the crap out of my audience. So it's been wonderful to have you on and talk to you, Penelope and such a wonderful thing. Give us your final thoughts as we go out and any dot coms you want people to find you on the interwebs. Annettebaudillan.com and I think and hope that I think the books are on all the normal channels Amazon and Barnes and Noble

and all those sort of things and I would just love it if it encourages anybody to find out more about Jesus and have a relation. relationship with him, because all I want to do, it sounds awfully strange, is to spread the word of God, and I can't do it. Well, they say, don't they go out and preach the gospel, strike pause, and if necessarily, use words.

Well, that's how we inspire each other and share each other's message, and then it's up to people to take, you know, your experience and see how it can maybe fit into theirs. Thank you very much, Penelope, for being on the show. It's been wonderful to have you. Thank you. And check out her book we start out the show with A Bun Dance out July 20th, 2021. Also check out our website and hold that good stuff. For those of you, thank you for tuning in the show. Go to goodrease.com, Fortress, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Foss, 1 on the TikTokity and all those crazy places in the internet. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time. And that's you