The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – A Connecticut Yankee Goes to Washington: Senator George P. McLean, Birdman of the Senate by Will McLean Greeley

Episode Date: August 29, 2023

A Connecticut Yankee Goes to Washington: Senator George P. McLean, Birdman of the Senate by Will McLean Greeley https://amzn.to/3PfDqU2 Senator George P. McLean’s crowning achievement was overseeing passage of one of the country’s first and most important wildlife conservation laws, the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918. The MBTA, which is still in effect today, has saved billions of birds from senseless killing and likely prevented the extinction of entire bird species. A Connecticut Yankee Goes to Washington: George P. McLean, Birdman of the Senate puts McLean’s victory for birds in the context of his distinguished forty-five-year career marked by many acts of reform during a time of widespread corruption and political instability. Author Will McLean Greeley traces McLean’s rise from obscurity as a Connecticut farm boy to national prominence when he advised five US presidents and helped lead change and shape events as a US senator from 1911 to 1929. One reviewer writes: “And there’s a bonus: This book is also a love song to a distant relative. We need more historians who truly care about the people they’re writing about, and Greeley does just that.”

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years listening so it's 15 years and 4 more days here and yeah refer to the show to your family and friends and relatives if I start a review on the thing we've got an amazing gentleman and author and brilliant man on the show. And, of course, he's not me because I'm just the host. I'm just the idiot who directs traffic around here.

He is the author of the latest book that has come out February 28th, 2023. Connecticut Yankee Goes to Washington. Senator George P. McLeanan birdman of the senate you're gonna find out what that means and uh his uh his is uh i believe uh we'll get the lineage here in a second because i forgot what it was uh will mclean greeley is the author and joins us on the show you may notice that uh there's may notice that there's probably some relation there. We'll get into what that's about and all the good stuff in between. Will grew up in West Michigan with a deep interest in American history, politics, and birds.

He earned a bachelor's degree in political science from the University of Michigan and then a master's degree from Michigan in archives administration. After retiring from a 35-year career in government and corporate market research, he began a four-year research and writing journey to learn more about George P. McLean and his legacy. A Connecticut Yankee Goes to Washington is his first book, and he joins us on the show. Welcome, Will. How are you? I am great, Chris. I feel like it's the first day of school. Anticipation, excitement to be on this show with you. There you go. But I don't know,

man, there's homework, so keep notes. Give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs. It's willgreely.com with a G-R-E-E-L-E-Y, willgreely.com. There you go. So talk to us a little bit about what motivated you to write this book. George P. McLean is my great-great-uncle. My middle name is McLean, and I've always wanted to know more about this man. I knew he was in the U.S. Senate for 18 years, from 1911 to 1929. He was governor of Connecticut. Wow. from 1911 to 1929. He was governor of Connecticut. His crowning achievement was overseeing passage of what's called the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918. And this legislation, which is still

in effect today, is our major protections for birds. It stopped the excessive hunting of birds and the spiraling into extinction of bird species. And he's widely credited with overseeing passage of this very important legislation. And this is at a time where we're probably just consuming everything, killing off buffalo, killing off everything. And, I mean, was it was bird sporting or bird, I don't know, hunting and killing for whatever means necessary? Was that just getting out of hand at that time? Yeah, I think in that time period, the 18th century, 19th century, there was this myth

of abundance that all these natural resources were going to last forever. And so there were very few controls on hunting. And there were really four things going on that really hurt bird populations. First of all, birds have always been hunted as a food source, you know, beginning of time. But sometime after the Civil War, it became fashionable to wear hats, primarily women, with feathers adorning them. And then there was a population explosion after the Civil War.

It went from 31 million people in the U.S. in 1860 to 72 million by 1900. So there were more mouths to feed, more heads to put hats on, and hunters filled the void. They came in and hunted birds for profit. But in addition, Chris, probably the most important factor was the advent of the automatic shotgun around 1890. And so hunters were transformed into killing machines, hunting millions of birds a year to tens of millions of birds a year. And the big problem was that each state was free to set its own hunting laws and regulations. Wow. And to give you one example,

the state of Missouri had one hunting law. You couldn't hunt on Sunday, but otherwise you could hunt whatever you wanted, however much you wanted, whatever time of year. And so spring hunting was really popular because it was so easy to hunt birds while they were nesting. There you go. So that's the dilemma that faced George P. McLean when he entered the Senate in 1911. He was a real bird lover, a nature lover, conservationist, kind of like Theodore Roosevelt, a conservationist. And he determined to pass federal legislation that would stop this excessive hunting of birds that had gone on for so long. There you go. So I normally ask for a 30,000 version of the book, but I think we may have covered a little bit of it.

He did a lot of other cool things and worked with some cool people in government, too. Can you give us a little bit more synopsis on that? Well, yeah. He had about a 35-year career in politics. He knew eight presidents. Five of them he knew well to advise them. He was governor of Connecticut from 1900 to 1902, and then he served in the U.S. Senate from 1911 to 1929.

So he was involved in this progressive era of reform that came after the Civil War. There was excessive growth in the country, industrialization, and he was one of these political reformers that wanted to solve many national problems that had come about because of runaway economic growth in the country. Yeah, well it's a good thing he passed that legislation Because they just have 50 cows shooting at guns You know, shooting, 50 cow guns Shooting at Pheasants these days or something The Was conservationism A big thing back then? Was he one of the early purveyors of this?

And what made him interested in birds? Why did he take a particular interest in that? Well, I'll start with that His interest in birds is he grew up take a particular interest in that? Well, I'll start with that. His interest in birds is he grew up on a subsistence farm in rural Connecticut. He didn't grow up in wealth or poverty, and he grew up in this beautiful, idyllic setting, teeming with game. He actually liked to hunt as a young man. And they say that hunters make some of our best conservationists because they're aware of declining populations.

Of course, they want to keep a sustainable level of population to continue hunting. His interest transformed from being a hunter to something more important. got to high school, he started reading like the poetry and the writings of some of these American transcendentalists and romantic poets that elevated nature to almost like a spiritual plane. And that's where he came out with this idea that it was man's responsibility to be stewards of nature and protect God's creations. And that's really what motivated him to become a really deep conservationist and carry that over into his political career. There you go. I mean, we saw lots of stuff. I mean, I remember during the fur thing when, you know, it was fashionable wear first.

But that makes sense where people were wearing them in their hats, bird feathers and, and different things. And so, you know, people were hunting for money and, you know, back then there was a lot of, you know, hunting animals for everything. I know we almost wiped out the Buffalo at one point, you know, we're kind of like locusts sometimes the way we do as a human species where we just start ravaging everything, you know, now we have problems with, you know, lead in the sea or mercury and prescription pills in in the water and plastics and all sorts of stuff that's showing up in in uh in fish and reading you can't eat too much sushi you know if you or you might get lead poisoning or something it's it's crazy and so it sounds like early on they were very aware of man's impact

and footprint on uh the earth and nature. Yeah. Well, one of the things I try to do in my book is not to demonize these people that were doing all the hunting. Because it really made rational sense for them. Many of these were poor immigrants who were coming into the country. And they would hunt ducks, for example, and sell them to restaurants and make a good living doing that. It's said that about 128,000 people were employed in making hats in around 1910. Again, many of these were women immigrants, entrepreneurs who came to this country with

this talent, and there was a great demand for these hats. So you really couldn't blame them for wanting to meet this demand. You know, Chris, the most valuable cargo on the Titanic when it sank were feathers that were destined for New York City from London, valued over $2 million in today's money. And they were destined for the hat making industry that was kind of located in New York City. And so, you know, in some ways this was a rational activity to hunt birds for food, for restaurants. This growing population demanded it. And also to hunt birds for the feathers to make hats that women wanted to buy. But it wasn't just women. Here's another anecdote for you.

McLean decried on the Senate floor, a man's coat that was for sale for $10,000 made of hummingbird skins. Really? Wow. So it was perfectly legal to do that. And this person who had this technicolor dream coat of his, that was a legal pursuit to do. And so what Mclain wanted to do was to establish national guidelines about what you could hunt when you could hunt and um this was a very controversial idea because of the state's rights views that were so prevalent particularly at this time in our nation's history there you go i mean hummingbirds aren't that big you'd have to kill a lot of them to make a coat. Probably three or four hundred went in that coat. Yeah.

Holy crap. Yeah, they were out of control back then. Yeah. And yet it was legal, Chris. And that's kind of the point I try to make is that we demonize these people for doing that. But if you're a poor immigrant and you don't speak English and you're just trying to survive and you know that you can get paid X amount of dollars to hunt ducks or hummingbirds or whatever it is, you got to do what you got to do. So what McLean wanted to do was to create legislation and enforce it. That's the key thing is that you can create laws all day long. But back in those days, many of these reforms were very weak because they had no enforcement. And that was another big part of what he accomplished was an enforcement mechanism. There you go.

And so he helped create the passage of one of the country's first and most important wildlife conservation laws, the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918. There you go. Yeah, and it's still in effect today. And what's really powerful about this is the key word there is treaty. These were treaties between and among nations to protect birds. And that's important because birds migrate. We know that. And initially, these laws were only pertaining to the U.S. But McLean and others foresaw that they needed global protection. This is a big part of his legacy. So they developed these treaties, first with Great Britain.

It was really Canada. They were a dominion country of Great Britain. And then Mexico. And eventually, several other countries have signed. But this now protects birds internationally, which is so important with migration. Wow. Yeah. And it's good that they got everybody in on it because, you know,

I mean, we've seen different countries that abuse things when it comes to conversation. I want to think conversation, conservatorism, and conserving stuff. And we see different countries now that they're kind of stuck in the old industrial age and they're just scavenging the world and doing whatever they can to do stuff and and uh yeah we're i think we're we're kind of figuring out with global climate change and you know i mean you you can probably deny a lot of stuff but i mean we just had i don't know a first 100 year hurricane or something in california the heat wave this year has been off the charts droughtss, plagues, you know, animals intermixing with the other species. I don't know. There's a joke there somewhere. So, you know, we're kind of learning that this is really important to have some sort of balance with nature

because if we don't take care of it, it doesn't like us very much and treat us very well. Well, that's right. And one of the things I learned in writing this book was the bipartisan nature of this accomplishment. I really admire this. And perhaps that's why this resonates so much with me today is I think we all want to get to a point of bipartisanship. And McLean was able to work with other people in his different parties to get this passed. And that's inspiring. McLean was a Republican. Now in this day and age, Republicans were really the party of reform. You know, this is the Theodore Roosevelt Republicans of that era. But he had to work with Woodrow Wilson, who was a Democratic president, to get this signed in 1918. And let me just remind you what was going on in 1918. We were at war in Europe. And so even though we were at war, there was a global flu pandemic that year,

and we all know about pandemic, a lot of unrest at home because this was a rather unpopular war. McLean and Wilson came together to get this legislation signed. And I find that very inspiring. And I hope that we will get to that point again in our country where people come together to solve problems in government. Yep. The old Tip O'Neill sort of errors, stuff like that, where, you know, we did bipartisan stuff and we weren't

so divided as a nation yeah hi folks Chris Voss here with a little station break hope you're enjoying the show so far we'll resume here in a second uh i'd like to invite you to come to my coaching speaking and training courses website you can also see our new podcast over there at chrisvossleadershipinstitute.com. Over there, you can find all the different stuff that we do for speaking engagements, if you'd like to hire me, training courses that we offer, and coaching for leadership, management, entrepreneurism, podcasting, corporate stuff, with over 35 years of experience in business and running companies as a CEO. And be sure to check out chrisvossleadershipinstitute.com.

Now back to the show. Definitely an example to set for future politicians if we can get back to that, if we can claw our way back to that thing. What were some of the other things he did? He advised five different presidents. What were some of the other interests he had in trying to affect legislation? Yeah. Well, when he was governor of Connecticut in 1900, he had a major reform agenda, which included women's suffrage, but only at the municipal level. It was kind of like an experiment in 1900 to at least get it started. He called for other reforms, taxes on money corporations, like insurance companies and banks. And these had been groups that supported him.

And so he lost a great deal of support because of his coming out for reform of that sort when he was governor. And so he was essentially exiled by his own party after he left the governor's office, and he had to stage a comeback to get back into the U.S. Senate. And so he spent 10 years in exile, regrouping, and eventually he was reelected to the U.S. Senate. There he participated in many issues of the day. The creation of the Federal Reserve Board, for example, was one major accomplishment. He also advocated for the modernization of the military in the 1920s when people were very isolationist. And he wanted to commit to submarines and aircraft. And this was at a time when people were saying, you know,

we just got out of World War I. We don't want to be part of the international scene anymore. But he was a very independent thinker, and he saw situations in a more of a problem-solving context and wanted to learn from our experience in World War I and improve our military and be prepared into the future. Definitely, definitely. We need more people like this who aren't afraid to be leaders, who aren't afraid to go against the grain, who aren't afraid to lose votes, who aren't afraid to put their career on the line.

We need people like this. We need more braver people you know as i've been reading the uh the the madison papers the federalist papers are called like sometimes in front of the madison papers because he was involved in it but uh the federalist papers and um you know they they really wanted sent to send brilliant minds to the uh senate and house to represent us in congress we were supposed to center smartest highest iq people people from all sorts of broad ranges from science to whatever and now we just send i don't know meat puppets of idiots uh a lot of the time that uh they just

tout around these these uh these uh you know things that whip people up that you know when really i'm just like hey can we fix the roads around here maybe and uh maybe you know, things that whip people up that, you know, when really I'm just like, Hey, can we fix the roads around here? Maybe, and, uh, maybe, you know, get some money for education instead of guns as much. I mean, you need a good military, but, um, you know, uh, but it seems like they're just, some of them just want to run around for, uh, for, uh, you know, to whip people up on issues that don't really matter when it comes down to it, aren't broad enough to really affect the whole nation. And so we need more people like that, people that, like your relative who stood up and was willing to risk it all to try and do the right thing. Well, I hope what I learned coming out of this book was that there was never a time in our

country that was more polarized than the Civil War. I mean, that goes without saying, right? Well, he was the generation after the Civil War. And I believe that he and others said, you know, we have got to put this polarization behind us and move forward as a country and solve problems that matter to people. And I'm hopeful that we are on the precipice of something like that, that we're living through extreme polarization. Now, people aren't thankfully taking up weapons against each other, but we are very polarized. And I believe that the next

generation, like my sons that are in their 20s, they can't relate to this. And I hope that this next generation will emerge and say, let's solve problems together. Let's get past this polarization of our parents that is so ridiculous and move forward as a country and solve problems like gun control, like climate change, like many of these issues that are on people's minds that we can't seem to get to because we're so hung up on, you know, cultural issues or so hung up on pointing fingers at, you know, you're the problem instead of finding solutions to the problems. There you go. I mean, you can sit around and yell about problems or you can find the solutions and you hit it right on

the nose there i mean people seem to be people seem to just want to wave the problems around and and amplify the problems rather than be the fixers of them and uh and they're able to fundraise pretty well off them so it's pretty interesting was there anything his childhood that shaped him uh parenting experience uh family etc etc that motivated to be this way there are several things he came from um you know puritan stock that came to the united to north america the new world in the 1600s and his grandfather was a Puritan minister, and he instilled in McLean values that were very strong in terms of do the right thing, morality, public service as part of that. And he took that energy, I think, to Washington. And as I said, he transformed this idea of nature being something

that God gave us that we needed to be stewards of and use that as protection. We were stewards of nature and we needed to protect it. So that was certainly significant. But he was very ambitious, Chris. I mean, he graduated from high school and said he wanted to become, first, publisher of the largest newspaper in Connecticut, and second, get elected president of the United States. And he was very serious about this goal of being president. Oh, wow. And I think his experience as trying to lead reform as governor derailed these goals of becoming president someday. And he regrouped and just said, you know, the U.S. Senate is probably more suited to me temperamentally, but he was a very ambitious person. And I think that also came from this

kind of Puritan background that you were there to serve and to use your God-given abilities to your best in order to help others. There you go. He was a confirmed bachelor until he was 49 and then married in 1907. Yes. Didn't have any children. She was 42. Is that correct here on Wikipedia? That's right.

This was a lifelong companion of his. I think he was married to his career. Everything was all about becoming president, being the best politician you could become. And during this time in political exile, he married. It's also interesting. One of the things I learned about him is he inherited, he was a wealthy man from his law practice. He was also an attorney, but he inherited $3 million in 1906 from his aunt, who was a wealthy widow from New York City. Now $3 million in 1906, and today's currency is about 100 million. Holy crap. So what really struck me, Chris, was at this point, politics had dealt him this really bitter blow. He lost the support of leaders in his own party. Why didn't he just retire and live the good life? He got married. He had every option in the world with his $100 million

fortune. But I think the reason he didn't want to live the good life was because he had a better life in mind. And that was to take these passions of his, these abilities of his to the US Senate. And his maiden speech in the US Senate was on the topic of protecting migratory birds that were so under threat. And so that's to me, one of the great legacies that he offers us. It's not all about money. It's not all about, you know, winning the lottery and then cashing out of society. It's about serving. It's about following your passions. It's about doing what you think is right. And I think this is an example of that because what would have been lost had he not gone into the Senate? Certainly protections of birds, I think,

would have been delayed for decades if he hadn't been there. There you go. And giving back, really, when it comes down to it. focus gets narrowed when we're so focused on money um and uh the pursuit of it and the acclimation of it and and it seems to consume us just way too much and we put different way too much power behind it i think especially when i see us worshiping people who make money as if they're some sort of gods or demigods in this country. Our relation to money and worshiping people who are rich has really gotten out of hand with the capitalistic nature that we are. I mean, capitalism is great, but unbridled capitalism is not great.

And, you know, there's kind of an assumption that people that make money um have are somehow have evolved to be the most perfect human beings like they must have the most perfect relationships they must have the perfect mindset they must you know they must have they must have somehow achieved everything right when really um it that's not true in fact sometimes you could be the worst person in the world and make a lot of money, and you're probably not the sort of person that we want running Twitter. So I'll just leave it at that. Or what's called X or next week's what's called bankruptcy. So there you go.

Those are my thoughts. Well, what did you, you know, this is kind of a journey of your family, your lineage, and you probably discussed with relative with some relatives, some of their, their experiences and remembrances. What did you find most interesting on your journey of, of discovering more about your long lost relative? That he was a surrogate father to my grandfather. So in other words, McLean's sister died shortly after my

grandfather was born. And so McLean stepped in the void to become a surrogate parent, really, to my grandfather. And I think he instilled in him many of the values that I see in McLean. First of all, you know, having, establishing a bar that's high and living, you know, the best life you can, a moral life, one dedicated to a service and to, you know, serving others. And I think when that's a key that I see in my family is that McLean was that force that got my grandfather, you know, on the right road and paid for his college education for one thing. But more importantly, just instilling values that have been passed on to me and to my kids now. And I feel very fortunate to have this connection. And as you mentioned about his money, he didn't live a lavish lifestyle. When my relatives found out he had that much money, they were all surprised that he didn't

live a very ostentatious lifestyle. that when he died he gave that money all away to hospitals churches he set us out aside 4 000 acres of land that exists today as the mclean game refuge outside of hartford connecticut oh wow and this was land that he owned but he wanted it to be made available to the public so they could enjoy the peace of mind, body, and soul that he found there. And so he was that kind of person, a philanthropist, someone who didn't excessively live a materialistic lifestyle, but stayed true to the values that he had received from his family. And I'm trying to do the same thing now, Chris. There you go.

You know, it's interesting. We need to think about the bigger picture of life rather than money because you can't take it with you. And a life well lived or a life well, I forget the line that I'm looking for, but I think people know the quote. But thinking about your life, thinking about the legacy you leave behind, the quality of life you want to live is sometimes more important than money because there's a lot of great people who do a lot of great things. And they don't worry about whether or not they're going to make money. And those people are successful in ways that have a higher impact.

What's his legacy like now in Connecticut after all these years? Well, I went out there to his hometown in June and I've never felt so appreciated in my life. They rolled the red carpet out for me because he's so well known there with his 4,000 acre McLean Game Refuge. He established an assisted living center that still exists today. Now, this was in 1932 that he set this up, and that was long before the Social Security system was really in place. And I think he was a forerunner in that regard. that he established in his will that still exist. And they were across denominations, Catholic Church, several Protestant churches. He had a very broad-based coalition of people that supported him because he didn't really engage in that kind of bigoted thinking that was so prevalent during that era, the 1920s. So he is still very well regarded, primarily because of the McLean Game Refuge. But he did a great deal for the Simsbury, Connecticut community. And he's still fondly remembered in Connecticut.

There you go. The book has really resonated well with people there. But I think the broader message about what he did for birds is something that goes way beyond Connecticut. And the more you unpack it and you see the birds that were on the verge of extinction when this MBTA passed, you know, the snowy egret, the flamingo, the whooping crane, the wood duck, all these colorful birds with really showy feathers. They were on the verge of extinction. And I don't think it's overstating things that we could have lost more of those kinds of birds had this legislation not passed when it did. There you go. And we can kind of see that legacy now.

I mean, more and more we've kind of learned to be more conservative, try and take care of the environment. And even now we're learning that I think there's another hurricane or something coming that's building right now. And it sounds really scary from what I'm hearing. There's elements that are going to slow down that aren't normally there. And we're kind of seeing that the environment, you know, maybe Mother Earth is a little sick of us. And probably rightly so. So there you go.

Well, Will, this has been really interesting to have you on. Any final thoughts as we go out? Well, my book, I want to show that McLean was the right person who came along at the right time, in the right place, to do the right thing for birds and for conservation. And that he was on the forefront of this environmental thinking that we all possess today. And I hope people will just take some time to reflect on those who came before us because we can learn a lot from people who came before us. That's the value of reading history is they have a lot, people in history have a lot to teach us. There you go. And a lot to learn. And the more you know, the better you are.

And the one thing we can learn about history is that man doesn't learn from his history. So let's start learning from our history and not repeating it and doing some of the horrible things we've been known to do as human beings. And let's learn to get along in politics. This is a great example for that too as well. Thanks Will for coming on the show. We really appreciate it. Chris, you're a pro. I really appreciate you having me on today.

There you go. And it's been very insightful. Learned a lot. Give us your.com so people can find you on the interwebs. Yeah, it's willgreely.com, G-R-E-E-L-E-Y, and my book is available most conveniently on Amazon. There you go. Order up, folks, wherever fine books are sold.

A Connecticut Yankee goes to Washington. Senator George P. McLean, Birdman of the Senate, he was referred to, came out February 28, 2023. Order it up, and hey, Christmas is coming up. Buy five books and give them out as gifts. That's the best way to go. We're telling everybody these days.

Got to get those Christmas gifts. You never know when you need that spare one. You know, somebody gives you something, and you're like, oh, crap, I didn't get anything from them. Like, hey, I got this really great book for you. So there you go. Thanks so much for tuning in. Go to goodreads.com, Fortress Christmas, LinkedIn.com, Fortress Christmas, YouTube.com, Fortress Christmas, TikTok.com, Fortress Christmas 1. I think it is.

Thanks for tuning in. Be good to each other. Stay safe. We'll see you guys next time.