The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – A Taste for Poison: Eleven Deadly Molecules and the Killers Who Used Them by Neil Bradbury Ph.D.

Episode Date: March 29, 2022

A Taste for Poison: Eleven Deadly Molecules and the Killers Who Used Them by Neil Bradbury Ph.D. A brilliant blend of science and crime, A TASTE FOR POISON reveals how eleven notorious poisons affect the body--through the murders in which they were used. As any reader of murder mysteries can tell you, poison is one of the most enduring―and popular―weapons of choice for a scheming murderer. It can be slipped into a drink, smeared onto the tip of an arrow or the handle of a door, even filtered through the air we breathe. But how exactly do these poisons work to break our bodies down, and what can we learn from the damage they inflict? In a fascinating blend of popular science, medical history, and true crime, Dr. Neil Bradbury explores this most morbidly captivating method of murder from a cellular level. Alongside real-life accounts of murderers and their crimes―some notorious, some forgotten, some still unsolved―are the equally compelling stories of the poisons involved: eleven molecules of death that work their way through the human body and, paradoxically, illuminate the way in which our bodies function. Drawn from historical records and current news headlines, A Taste for Poison weaves together the tales of spurned lovers, shady scientists, medical professionals and political assassins to show how the precise systems of the body can be impaired to lethal effect through the use of poison. From the deadly origins of the gin & tonic cocktail to the arsenic-laced wallpaper in Napoleon’s bedroom, A Taste for Poison leads readers on a riveting tour of the intricate, complex systems that keep us alive―or don’t.

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All of our groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, the big 132,000 LinkedIn group. And what else is there? The LinkedIn newsletter. That thing is killing it over there. It's pretty interesting. People love those newsletter things over there. Today, we have an amazing author on the show. Of course, we have some of the most brilliant minds that come to us and share all their wonderful knowledge because

I have none. And today, we have Neil Bradbury, PhD. He is a doctor. So we're going to learn all sorts of doctor stuff. You guys will be smart after this. And some of you may be smarter in ways that, I don't know, maybe they wouldn't be good. I don't know. We'll leave it up to you. We'll talk about it some more. He is the author of the new book, February 1st, 2022. And the book is called A Taste for Poison. 11 Deadly Molecules and the Killers Who Use Them.

We're going to be talking about his amazing new book. And this is going to be pretty insightful, especially for some of you guys who are really obsessed with watching, you know, CSI and all those murder mysteries and stuff like that. I always have my eye on you people. I give you a slant eye. I watch you guys with one eye open when I sleep.

Neil Bradbury. He grew up in Manchester, England, and always had a deep interest in science. He studied biochemistry at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, where he had the opportunity to work with poisons. He graduated with a degree in biochemistry with honors and decided to further my education, or his education, not mine. He can do that if he wants after this.

His education by studying for a PhD in medical biochemistry at the Welsh National School of Medicine in Cardiff, Wales. He focuses efforts on the study of genetic disease, cystic fibrosis. He then moved to the US to continue medical research because, I mean, he became a Yankee, I guess, basically. Is that how it works? We won't get fooled again. First, the University of Birmingham and then the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine. He's currently a professor of physiology and biophysics at the Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science in North Chicago, Illinois. Welcome to the show. How are you, Neil?

I'm doing great, Chris. Thanks so much for inviting me. It's really exciting to be here and I'm looking forward to chatting with you about the show. How are you, Neil? I'm doing great, Chris. Thanks so much for inviting me. It's really exciting to be here, and I'm looking forward to chatting with you about the book. I'm looking forward to chatting with you, too. Did you get my We Won't Get Fooled Again, The Who reference? No. I did not get that. Oh, wow. Okay, well, I mean, you're younger than I am, so that's probably what it is.

For those of you who can look up what that joke means, it has something to do with the Revolution. Anyway, I'm glad we repatriated you for those who are having trouble following along from England to America and turned you into, I guess, a Yankee, if you will. But you still have your British accent, so welcome. I still have that. I've actually lived in the States more than I ever lived

in England, so it's surprising that I still have it still god save the queen we love her give the give us your plugs your dot com so people can find you on the interwebs on the interweb you can find me on www.neilbradbury.org there you go there you go so what motivated you want to write this book well there's a couple of things that really forced me to write it. I've always been interested in science. Even growing up at school, I wanted to take as many science classes as I could.

I really loved the subject and decided I wanted to do it for the rest of my life. So I was able to stay in academia and not actually get a proper job. I could stay in universities. I've also done a lot of research, but I've also moved into doing a lot of teaching and talking about the various human body aspects in lectures. But I've also been interested in murder mysteries, particularly Agatha Christie and all the poisons that she used. And I just figured, well, maybe this would be a good way of actually introducing how the body works, the physiology to students in class. And then I figured, well,

maybe, you know, Agatha Christian novels is one thing, but perhaps there are some real life murders and poisons that they use that could be used as illustrations in class. And so I started doing that. Students seemed to like it. And I started incorporating more and more murders into my classes. And eventually I figured, well, maybe everybody else is going to be interested in this. And so I started writing the book, partly to increase my own understanding of poisons and how the body works, but also to share it with a broader audience.

There you go. So has your wife had a side eye on you? Keep one eye open while you've been writing this book, wondering what you're up to? She has had a few concerns when I was writing the book and doing research on the internet. I had left a few websites open that were of a concern. But I think I finally did convince her that I was writing a book.

And, of course, when it was finally published, I really was learning and doing material for the book. And so she is perfectly safe. There you go. I'm just learning, honey. I'm just understanding these things. I am a chemist by trade. So there you go. I'm just learning, honey. I'm just understanding these things. I am a chemist by trade. So I just think it's funny. I have so many friends that either their wives or husbands watch a lot of those CSI murder things. And I'm like, I watched a few of them myself. And that's when I decided that I would never kill anybody because I'd be dumb enough to make all the

mistakes you possibly could make to get caught. And, of course, you never should do that, I should say. The attorneys make me say that, by the way. But never dig up my backyard, please. Anyway, so give us some tips on, you know, some of the different, are these, you mentioned molecules in the title. Is that different than, say, poison like arsenic or what are molecules what is the reference we generally think about poisons and we also hear about toxins and they're kind of similar but they're a little bit different so poisons generally refer to both things that occur naturally, so things that come from plants, but they could also

come from synthetic sources. So sarin gas, for example, would be a poison. It's not something that naturally occurs. It's man-made. Toxins tend to be exclusively natural things, but they still both mess up the normal functioning of the body. So it's a little semantic difference. And then the other word that we often come across is venom, which is really another animal-based poison, but it tends to be a poison that's injected either through fangs or from a scorpion sting or a bee sting. But generally, they're all the same thing. They refer to something that gets into the body and disrupts its normal. With stuff like, you know, where people got poisoned from

the Russian government, Novichok. Novichok, yeah. Does that fall into that category? Novichok would definitely fall into the category of poison. It's not something that's natural. It's definitely man-made and it is definitely a poison. It's not something that's natural. It's definitely man-made, and it is definitely a poison. It's really nasty. The problem with something like Novichok is that you only need a very, very small amount of it, and it can be absorbed through the skin. In the case of Novichok, the poison was actually squirted onto a door handle. So when people closed their front door, the Skripals in this case, they absorbed poison directly through their skin. Touching anywhere else on the door wouldn't give you any poisoning at all. It's just very specific to where that poisoning is, which means it's very

hard to find exactly where it is because you could just be an inch away from where the poison is and not detect it at all it's only where it was specifically placed wow do you is ricin included in that book i remember living in las vegas we had somebody who's making ricin i believe that's how it's pronounced in in one of the rice yeah ricin is in place in the book and again that this is a really interesting one this is actually uh one of the stories that really again, this is a really interesting one. This is actually one of the stories that really fascinated me as a child in high school, because an assassination of a Bulgarian defector occurred through Raisin. And in this case, it was actually involving an umbrella as the delivery tool. So this was during the communist era.

The Soviet bloc was still there. Georgi Markov was a Bulgarian who was originally fairly high up in the Bulgarian Communist Party, but became very disillusioned and came over to the UK and started broadcasting into the Soviet Union, saying everybody how terrible Soviet life is and they should overthrow

and become a democracy and of course the Bulgarians didn't take too kindly to that and decided to take him out and used ricin which is a natural poison it comes from the castor bean plant so many of you are probably familiar with castor oil many of us took it as kids or given it as kids. Ricin comes from exactly the same plant and is very, very toxic. It only needs a small amount of ricin to kill someone. Yeah, I was reading about it. The guy had been making it in his Las Vegas hotel room, and I think he was trying to assassinate somebody or somebody,

and he ended up, I can't remember if he died, but he ended up poisoning himself and stuff and making him put the hospital. And they're trying to figure out what he was up to. And if it was like, if he really intended to do it and stuff, because it's kind of like a natural occurring thing. But now that we've triggered all the keywords for the CIA, the FBI, and the national security, the NSA, Let's talk about your book some more. So you talk about some different things. Here's a good question for you. It's often believed that women are usually the poisoners. Is this true? And why are women getting blamed for that? I would think, I mean, most serial killers are men, I think, aren't they?

Most serial killers probably are men. For some some reason poisoning seems to have gotten the assignment of being a woman's poison certainly if you're going to poison someone it doesn't take a lot of strength all it takes is dripping a few drops into a drink and it will kill someone so it doesn't take a lot of strength we think historically of people like Lucretia Borgia who was a very famous poisoner during the Renaissance period. But it turns out with research that

there are just as many men who are poisoners. And I think probably in the book it's actually more men who I've covered as poisoners than women. So it's definitely an equal opportunity murder weapon. So it's an equal opportunity. Women aren't to blame for that.

I didn't really know. I always just assumed that most serial killers were men from their makeups of FBI stuff. I know my mom tried to poison me a lot, but she was just a horrible cook. But I do love my mom. But when we were kids, don't get me started. If death row, if people would be on death row for bad cooking, my mom would be on

death row, but she's a wonderful angel of a woman otherwise, but just not the cooking part. I have an iron stomach. You can pour acid into my stomach and I'll live. I drink bleach just to keep my stomach up. So that's kind of interesting that, you know, I mean, technically the people who make your food, and I know people like Putin and stuff, you know, taste test the people who make your food and i know people like putin and stuff actually have you know taste testers kings over the years have had taste testers because you know food is i guess you deliver your poison especially if you eat at mcdonald's i guess there goes the mcdonald's crowd yeah i think one of the things that is probably overlooked is you've mentioned serial killers and certainly there are serial killers

in here who have murdered multiple people uh some maybe just half a dozen other people who have been suspected of killing hundreds of people and they definitely fall into the category of serial killers but there's also poisoners who are targeting a particular individual. Maybe they're looking for an inheritance and their rich relative is just not dying. And so they're hurrying them along or they're trying to get rid of a lover that's decided they don't want to be involved with them anymore. So there are murders that are just taking out specific people, and that's the only person they've murdered. So different types, it really depends upon what the goal. Yes, some people definitely were serial killers and just were rampant in the killing.

Others were poisoning particular individuals that they wanted to eliminate. Wow. Yeah, there's some people that, wasn't that Durst guy, billionaire Durst guy? I don't know if he's, billionaire Durst guy, or he was, I don't know if he's a billionaire or multimillionaire. He recently died, but he'd, somehow a lot of people that he'd known had passed away, his spouses and girlfriends and stuff. It's really interesting. So you talk about in the book, I don't know if he used poison, I'm just digging, but many of the killers in the book are healthcare professionals,

doctors, and nurses. What the hell's going on there? It's a good question. I think this is something that's been around for a long, long time. Even Sherlock Holmes noted that doctors are the worst killers because they have knowledge and they have the ability to carry it out. And I think that's still something that's not changed since those times. Doctors tend to have a thought that they are cleverer than most people, that they're not going to be found out, that they can use their specialized knowledge to kill someone and no one would ever figure out that they'd killed someone. Some doctors

certainly, or healthcare professionals, there's nurses as well, tend to have a complex of, I'm taking people out of their misery, the so-called angels of death that come in and really assume that they're trying to kill people just to put them out of their misery. Other people, one example would be Beverly Allitt, who decided that she was going to kill a lot of children, and she killed several children. It turns out that she was probably affected by Munchausen disease. What she would do would inject the people or the young kids in cribs who would come into the hospital. The kids would go into heart failure. She would rush in and save the kids, resuscitate them, and everyone would be thankful that she was such a great nurse. In fact, one of her victim's parents

even made her a godmother because they were so grateful that she'd come in and rescued and saved their child not realizing of course that the kid went into heart failure because of her she was eventually caught and sentenced and was actually put into a hospital for the criminally insane where she still is at the moment so So there's lots of reasons why different healthcare professionals have gone into murder, some because they wanted to get rid of a particular individual, some because they just felt that they were so clever that they could get away with it.

Note to self, block everyone named Beverly on Tinder, just in case. You never know. So what was her motivation there? Was she trying to set up a savior sort of scenario? She did have that was really what was determined to be the rationale behind it. She didn't really have a desire to kill the individuals. She wanted to put them into severe distress,

and she could come in and save the situation and be looked upon as a hero. Wow, man, that's messed up. I think I've heard of that sometimes with the care of older people and different things like that. I'm trying to think of what I'm referencing, but I think I've heard of different issues like that that people have taken and done. That is insane. So what did you hope people would get from this book?

I mean, you might be inspiring people or maybe helping people understand what's going on. And that way, if my coffee tastes funny in the morning, I should probably look into it. Yeah. The lawyers at the publishers made me put in a disclaimer in the book that the book was for entertainment purposes only, not to be as an indication as to what you might use. What I'm hoping to get out of this is really to get people to appreciate the body, how it works. And for the most part, our bodies work really well. One of the things I also wanted to bring out in the book is that many of the poisons that I've covered, and we think about as poisons and certainly have been used to kill people, can actually be useful. One of the poisons that I start right off at the front is we know insulin

is taken by millions of people around the world every day, and it's really useful. And without it, they couldn't live. But you just have to take the right amount of insulin if you take too much it's going to kill you same thing for a lot of other drugs digoxin is one of which is really important for people with congestive heart failure it's a very important drug many people people take it, but you have to have just the right amount. Too much digoxin and you're going to have a heart failure, heart attack, and you're going to die. So a lot of things that we think of poisons, if we use them in the right way and they're used at the right dosage, are actually really useful drugs. Does Viagra fall into that? Because if it only after four hours, don't ask me how I know. You have to go see a doctor and he has to give you some stuff.

I don't know what that means. But no, that's a joke. You don't have to answer that. The next question I have is, you know, my old man, my father, rest in peace. He hated taking, I believe it was Coumadin, which is a Coumadin that they take for blood thinning. Is that pronouncing it right? He used to always go off on it. He's like, it's rat poison. And my father hated doctors. He was very, he was into holistic medicine, which is the first problem, but he would always go off his Coumadin and then you have a heart attack or stroke

and you'd be like, dad, you go off your Cou off your cumin and it's right so does that fall in that category what we're talking about earlier exactly yeah if you just have the right amount it's going to prevent you having clots which can lead to strokes but certainly if you take too much and that's how it kills rats is basically they are unable to clot their blood so we tend to think about things as what we refer to a therapeutic window with drugs. You just have to use the right amount, just small enough to actually be of benefit. But if you add too much, it's not going to be good. And this is true for many, many drugs that most people, many people will take. You've just got to get the right amount and take the amount that the doctor prescribes. Just don't go thinking, I've not taken the drugs for three days.

Now I'll just take all those three together because that doesn't work. Yeah. I think we found a fan for you. I put up his post earlier. He says, I think I have to get this one on my Audible account today. But I don't know. Well, I just want to put his post up here. So when the FBI looks into this, they have a trail. I'm just kidding. I'll thank you for your comments. We certainly appreciate it, but note to self. Anyway, this seems like something that people are really interested.

They're really interested in, I guess, the macabre of it. And people love thrills and all that sort of good stuff. Let's see, what sort of poisons or poisoners do you think interests the public the most, I guess? I think it's interesting in that you see a huge spectrum of people that have been involved with poison. There are certainly political assassinations with poison. So we can think of the Skripals, as we were discussing earlier on, Georgi Markov, who was killed with ricin. We also think of people like Sasha Litvinenko, who was poisoned with radioactive polonium.

So there are people interested in the politics of it because there are government-sponsored murders in that sense. There are also people who really are serial killers and just go out of their way to see if they can kill as many people as possible. There are also human interest stories, people who have been in affairs and then just wanted to get rid of their lover. There's one story about a woman who was having an affair with her lover who was called Lucky Chima, which as you can imagine, if you're going to go by the name

of Lucky, it's probably not a good idea. You're unlucky at some point. And he was poisoned with a chicken curry. What? So... Do you start avoiding Indian restaurants now?

Well, if you go through the book, it's actually interesting how many different things were poisoned. There were certainly cocktails that were poisoned, scones, coffee, tea, umbrellas, curry, hot chocolate, have all been means of dispensing poisons for particular people. Oh, you're going to put me on a new diet. That's what you're going to do. Why do you think it's important? It's going to get rid of overweight if you stop eating. Well, that's true.

Or if you get poisoned, it'll fix your overweight problem too. You get a nice, good-looking skeleton going on there in your casket. How did you choose the 11? I think it's 11 top poisons. Gosh, that was actually really hard was this a favorite thing like your personal there was some that i just felt had to go in certainly the rice in because i remember that from when i was in high school so i was really interested in that some of them were just you just had to put in. The polonium with Sasha Litvinenko, he was actually given that in a pot of tea in a London hotel. And I was actually fortunate enough to go into the hotel restaurant where he was poisoned several years later after they had cleaned up the restaurant.

And so that was kind of fun to be able to go there and sit at a table just a few feet from where he was poisoned to see that. So that had to go in. Other poisons, one particular individual is Thomas Neal Cream. He was called Neal, so I had to include him in the book. He probably was one of the first serial killers. He killed in Canada. He killed in Chicago. He killed in Edinburgh. He killed in London. Probably was the first recognized serial killer.

Wow. I also wanted to just get some example of the different ways in which poisons kill, because poisons kill in lots of different ways so I wanted to select poisons that I could highlight different aspects of the body and highlight how different poisons can kill in different ways certainly there are lots more poisons that I've not included in the book if I put in everything the book would be up to three or four volumes. So I had to trim it down. And some of them are just favorites that I really liked and just felt I had to include. Others I just wanted to include because it exemplified different aspects of how the body worked.

Yeah. I know a lot of people who killed across the nation, but mostly they were comedians. That's a comedian joke, if you don't understand killing and dying on stage. If you don't understand that joke, it's mostly for the comedians. They're going to get that one. No, this is kind of interesting. How come you didn't cover Chipotle and the burritos? I cover curry, so that's kind of spicy food.

So it's in the same ballpark. Wait a second. I'm getting a notification. The attorneys just gave us a C&D. No, I mean, they were in that joke over there at the Chipotle. The last time I took a picture of myself in front of one, people were like, Hey, man, call the suicide hotline. It's okay, man.

So, you know, there you go. And, I mean, technically, there is a poison that kills, like, if you eat meat. What is that called? The natural, if you eat bad, that's technically a technically, there is a poison that kills, like, if you eat meat. What is that called? The natural, if you eat bad, that's technically a poison, right? I don't know. Yeah, there are certainly lots of, well, these would be toxins because they're natural chemicals. Meat that's gone off tends to be infested with bacteria, and they can cause all sorts of problems. Lettuce is a particularly bad one.

You talk about it. Bacteria in the lettuce give off toxins. Because you don't wash it? Because you don't wash it. And those toxins can get into the body and cause all kinds of imbalances in the way in which the body handles fluid. So it can lead to vomiting, diarrhea,

all those kind of nasty things. This is why i never eat salads you never trust a salad that's why i just stick to i don't know burgers or something i don't know i'm i'm not winning anywhere i'm going with this so what it teases out a story if you would that you found most interesting or one of your favorites i'm always worried when you say you have favorite poisons but i i'm far enough away from you. Favorite stories. I won't necessarily favorite poison. One of the stories that I find really interesting is a guy called Edwin Carter, who was ill

and went into hospital. He went into the ER, was very seriously ill. Doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with him. His hair started falling out. He was very ill. He had sores on his throat, was having difficulty speaking. The doctors tried every test that they could think of, took all the blood work that they could, just couldn't figure out what was wrong with him until one of the doctors who was visiting him decided that he looked kind of like some of his patients that were undergoing chemotherapy. And wondered if he had radiation poisoning. And so called in and started to try and work out what was going on.

And as the doctors were trying to figure out what was going on with him, Edwin Carter said, my name's not really Edwin Carter. I'm actually an ex-KGB agent, and I'm a secret agent for MI6. Wow. So the doctors thought, is this guy hallucinating? Is the disease that he's got just affecting his mind, or is he really an MI6 agent? He gave them a phone number, a phone number to MI6, who turned out to be his handler. And he indeed was an ex-KGB agent, Sasha Litvinenko,

who had come over and defected and was now working for MI6. Wow. He had been targeted by the Russian government. Most likely, his assassination was ordered by Putin. And he was the one that met some Russian agents in the Millennium Bar in a hotel in London and was given radioactive polonium in his tea. And as you can imagine, there's very few things that would be more British in a way to commit murder than putting poison in a pot of tea. It was eventually figured out that

he had the radiation poisoning. He was irradiated with a particular poison, polonium, which turns out that the only place on the planet you can get polonium is from a nuclear reactor in Siberia. So it's a bit of a giveaway. Because they can trace it, right? The signature of it, right? You can trace it. They actually found traces of radioactive polonium on the seats of the airlines that the assassins had come across from moscow into london wow the room in which they

stayed in whilst they were at the hotel had to be completely demolished and taken away because there was so much radiation it's clear that they had no clue as to how dangerous the chemical was that they were the assassins probably died in the area i don't know they were very ill they did get back to russia um the british government tried to have them extradited the russians said no way so that was one of the the interesting stories that just was fairly recent only occurred in uh the last 10 years or so we need to get your book in the hands of some russians these days and of course of course the favorite over there is a lot of people seem to fall out of windows and second story third story balconies i heard a a joke once about Russia that in most countries,

the higher up you can go, the more expensive, you know, to the penthouse the real estate is. In Russia, it's the penthouse at the ground floor that you want because you don't fall out of windows accidentally. You know, it was interesting to me with the Russian thing that how blatant it was and how it was. There was no attempt to really hide it for the most part, especially if they were caught, because it's really the message that it sends and the power of that message as opposed to just, you know,

poisoning one guy or making everyone shake in their boots at the power of that. So it'll be interesting to see what happens on that front. Anything more you want to touch on before you go out? Well, I just want to let people know that the drugs that they're prescribed are generally prescribed by a qualified doctor and to take them at the right dose that's prescribed for them.

And they'll be perfectly safe. Just don't go taking too much of it. And also watch out for what plants your neighbor might be growing in their garden be nice to your doctor and pay your bill because you know you never know like i can turn i'll probably have that nurse when i'm old and dying i'm gonna have that nurse that i don't know it might be good that i get a nurse to poison me i might be begging her please poison honey kill me uh kill me now because i don't want to be in this nursing home well just make sure you get the right poison some poisons you definitely don't want to have

uh strychnine is one of them you definitely don't want to have that's really nasty cyanide yeah that's going to kill you within a few minutes that's what you want you want to choose one i'd go for cyanide. There you go. There you go. I should have been a Russian operator back in the day. So we've had FBI agents on the show. So note to the FBI, we've triggered every single word you could possibly trigger on their thing.

We've had a few FBI people on. So we're good people, darn it. This is just an interview. Anyway, thanks for coming on. We certainly appreciate it. You know, we've had some fun with your book, and hopefully people keep it as an entertainment thing. Well, thanks so much for inviting me on.

It's been a great experience, and I hope people enjoy the book. There you go. You got 111 ratings so far. So at least there's a trail of people that are reading this, so that's probably good for the FBI. But yeah, wow, people love this read. It's interesting how fascinated people are with some of these dark things

like CSI and poisoning. So I should point out that everybody in the book who was a poisoner was caught. Ah, that's a good point. I like that. That's a good disclosure for the attorneys in the book who was a poisoner was caught. Ah, that's a good point. I like that. That's a good disclosure for the attorneys in the show.

So don't do it. Don't do it. Be good to each other, man. I mean, there's life insurance. You know, if you get that life insurance, you go cash that thing, they know, man. They see you coming. All I know is if I ever get married or get a girlfriend,

there will be no life insurance policy. I'm doing nothing to encourage. You kill me, you're on your own, honey. So that's my policy. Anyway, guys, thanks for tuning in. Give us your.coms, your internet connections, so people can find you on the interweb. Don't drink anything that they can you.

It's www.neilbradbury.org. There you go. Thanks go Thanks for tuning in Go to youtube.com for Hit the bell notification button Because it makes you belong to that family That loves you but doesn't judge you But you don't belong unless you hit that bell notification That's the key

That's all you have to do You don't have to join You don't have to offer up virgins Or do any sort of thing You just hit the bell notification up on the youtube version and you're in the the chris voss club uh go to it sounds like a cult at this point uh go to goodreads.com for it says chris voss see all of our uh groups facebook linkedin twitter instagram all those great places thanks for tuning in be good to each other damn it i really mean it this time after this show and stay safe thanks for tuning in everyone bye