The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Aaron Novinger’s Mission: Cycling for Ponzi Scheme Victims’ Justice

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Ponzirelief.org Ibmsb.com About the Guest(s): Aaron Novinger is a passionate advocate and small business champion dedicated to justice and financial security. With a background in accounting and years of professional expertise, Aaron co-runs a successful small business accounting firm with his wife, Rebecca. The firm has a rich history of over 50 years supporting mom-and-pop business owners. Known as "the guy who pedals for Ponzi victims," Aaron embarks on significant cycling journeys to raise awareness and funds for victims of financial fraud, all while advocating for secure retirements and justice for the victims. Episode Summary: In this inspiring episode of The Chris Voss Show, host Chris Voss introduces Aaron Novinger, an advocate, accountant, and passionate cyclist on a mission to support victims of Ponzi schemes. The episode delves into Aaron's unique journey, from his challenging beginnings to his current advocacy work and his upcoming 2,000-mile bicycle ride from Texas to Washington, D.C. Through this conversation, Aaron unveils the critical aspects of his campaign to save the IRS Form 4684, designed to assist victims of financial crimes in recovering from their losses. The discussion highlights the intricate and often silent impact of Ponzi schemes on retirees and the importance of raising awareness to support these victims. Aaron shares his personal motivations and the extensive efforts he has undertaken to shine a light on financial crimes and provide recovery avenues for victims. The episode emphasizes the value of IRS Form 4684 as a lifeline for victims, enabling them to claim considerable tax credits for lost funds and aiding in their financial rehabilitation. Listeners gain insights into Aaron's steadfast determination to create change and the remarkable journey that lies ahead. Key Takeaways: Aaron Novinger is passionately committed to advocating for Ponzi scheme victims, harnessing his accounting expertise to spearhead critical campaigns. The IRS Form 4684 serves as an essential tool for Ponzi scheme victims, allowing them to claim significant tax credits and aid in their financial recovery. Aaron's forthcoming bicycle journey from Texas to Washington, D.C., aims to gather support for making IRS Form 4684 permanent, spotlighting the importance of this form in providing justice to victims. The episode sheds light on the silent suffering of Ponzi scheme victims, emphasizing the enormous emotional and financial toll these crimes can inflict on families. Aaron's personal story of overcoming physical challenges and his dedication to a meaningful cause inspires others to take action and be a voice for the voiceless. Notable Quotes: "This is a beautiful rainbow after the hurricane. It doesn't fix the devastation, but it offers hope to victims." "Until we make these families whole, I can't stop. This is a burden. It's about making a meaningful difference." "You have to go somewhere else. It's gotta be your own, choose your adventure in your mind." "My goal is still fundraising where we can actually make these people whole." "I'm sort of crazy, a little psychopath, but all for good."

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries and motivators. Get ready, get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Cause you're about to go on a monster education rollercoaster with your brain.

Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi folks, this is Voss here for the Chris Voss Show. Dot com. Well ladies and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen, thanks for the official welcome to 16 years and nearly 24 episodes of the Chris Voss show all the greatest minds that should come and guest on the show and share their stories of life adventure, things you can learn and

all this stuff to just make your life better. Damn it. That's the Chris Voss show does. And if it doesn't make your life better, don't maybe stop this car and come back there and fix everything. Just go listen to all the shows one more time, if you will. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the Chris Foss show.

Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast, but it is not an endorsement or review of any kind. Today we're going to be talking to a fine gentleman. He's a jack of all trades and knows a lot of stuff. We're going to get into some of the deets of it. Aaron Noviger is a passionate advocate, devoted grandfather, and small business champion on a heartfelt mission for justice. Together with his wife, Rebecca, Aaron runs a thriving small business

accounting firm with over 50 years of history, passionately supporting mom and pop business owners. Known affectionately as the guy who pedals for Ponzi victims. Aaron is preparing for an inspiring 2000 mile bicycle journey from Dallas, Fort Worth, Texas, all the way to steps to the U S capital. And along his remarkable ride, he'll gather petition signatures, raise critical relief funds and apply the voices of financial fraud victims nationwide. He's not just peddling towards justice, he guides families towards secure retirements,

cherishes role as a proud grandfather and tirelessly advocates on safeguarding themselves from financial harm. I need to hire him to write my bio. Tune in to follow Aaron's incredible journey and discover how you can help him make a meaningful difference. And that's what we're doing today. Welcome to show Aaron. How are you? Chris, I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me on today.

I know you're a super busy guy, so I appreciate you sneaking me in. Yeah, we just, we had to, you know, sorry, we had to grab you off the street with the black van and a bunch of guys and jump you and put the hoodie over you. But, you know, the victims, you can do anything. You want to water board me fine with me. Usually what's the line that we just did in the thing. Usually I have to pay an only fan model for that. You wrote it down. You even impressed yourself.

I like that joke so much. I wrote it down, you know, and it's actually timely right now because you think about it. Shannon sharps gone through a little bit of that. Oh, you know, and it's actually timely right now. Cause you think about it, Shannon Sharpe's gone through a little bit of that. Oh, you know, he lost his contract yesterday with ESPN. He's a good man. Technically he, I think he resigned first before they could wash them. Yeah. Yeah.

Probably a good move on his part. So until the beginning of the next season, hopefully they can kind of blow over and we can have our boy back. Yeah. He can, I mean, he's a great podcaster. I think he's a funny one to a talent. I watched him play when I was a kid or when I was trying to play it that I'm not. So Aaron, let's get into it on you. I know Shannon, sure. But only fan show. Yeah. Let's see your dot coms. Where could people find you on the interwebs? What we're doing here, this is all about raising awareness and fundraising for some amazing

families affected by Ponzi schemes and financial crimes. PonziRelief.org is our big.org site to really kind of push the IRS form 4684 that we're trying to save. And really, I try to put everything kind of in that one page specifically when it comes to this cross-country bike ride. So it's our second year to do it. Last year was crazy. You saw the bike from last year and it was kind of crazy last year, but we pulled it off, man.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment scam that operates by using money from new investors to pay off early investors. For those not familiar with it, or I think it's pretty much M&M in Utah. I'm just kidding folks. Don't sue me, but seriously stop it. Make it stop. No, it's in not all MNLs or Ponzi schemes for those out there that don't get my jokes or don't get jokes.

A lot of them are. But I'm just going to do that one right on the table and I'm just going to not touch it because facts are facts. Tell us what this form is. Why is this form important? The IRS form that you're mentioning. I tell you, it was actually pretty unique because the, it was actually at the end of the year, because we obviously, we do small business accounting. And so at the end of every year, we do our annual tax class and it's me and a lot of our tax preparers and we go away for a couple days.

And typically it's all of the new changes going into the next year and everything that's due to expire by the end of next year. And usually it's two books, a couple hundred pages, front and back of all of the changes. So you come back and one of the things that they talked about a couple years ago that's expiring at the end of this year is form 4684 what's unique about it that's typically the form that you can actually document and write off theft the form is really designed for theft you know and I don't mean like lost some money with my Microsoft shares and then that's different that you can write off three

thousand dollars a year you've heard it before I lost money money with my Microsoft shares and that's different that you can write off $3,000 a year. You heard that before. I lost money in my investment. You can write off $3,000 a year, right? This ain't that. This is in 2019, 2020, the Tax Certainty and Disaster Relief Act. They modified form 46A4 to include federal disasters that you lost from as well for COVID. Oh, wow. Right. And the changes they made in 2019 due to expire the end of 2025, but they added something back then that they'd never done before and expires this year and it snuck in and it's about to sneak out.

They added section C of form 4 to 684. Okay. C specifically is for being a victim of a financial crime, a Ponzi scheme. So Chris, I'm going to give you an example We did taxes and as for us it's ministry So anybody that's been affected by this we will do their personal tax return for free if they have form 4684 I always say that the form 4684. So think of the ponzi scheme as a hurricane But this at the same time both things can be true That you suffer and you went through a devastating storm, the hurricane, but also there's also

beautiful rainbows after the hurricane. This is a beautiful rainbow. So this doesn't fix the devastation, but I'll give an example of individual we did taxes for. So he had lost between a couple of investments, about $500,000. This form allows you under safe harbor provisions to write off 95% of that of what you do. And it becomes on schedule on section C, it's an income credit. And this client does a couple hundred thousand a year in income. I mean, it does well,

right? But lost a substantial amount of retirement for the kids, right? But this year we were able to capture about $450,000 of that on his taxes. And so before Form 4684, he'd paid in about 21,000 in taxes, still owed about 2,500 bucks for the year. We did Form 4684 and he got an immediate $450,000 income credit. And he immediately wiped the 200,000 in income he had, which means the 21,000 income credit and he immediately wiped the $200,000 in income he had, which means the $21,000 he'd already paid in taxes, he got back in the form of a tax refund to the treasury. And he still, of course, he still has a $250,000 tax income credit going into next year as

a carrier. Oh wow. So again, trust me, if you ask the individual, what would you rather have? A great tax refund or your money back. But there's no question. So the hurricane has happened, but this is a beautiful rainbow after the hurricane. And I am hoping six degrees from Kevin Bacon. You know, you go to that ponsonrelief.org and you'll see sign the petition.

I'm trying to get 50,000 signatures there, but underneath that is a letter to president Trump. Well, my boy to see that, because all he has to do is just stroke the pen and we can make form 46 84 section C permanent. It has helped so many people help give a little bit of comfort to the devastation that's happened to him. Well, you know, Ponzi schemes have been abound. There's all sorts of stuff, sort of stuff running around and yeah, it's crazy that, you know, you would have issues with

trying to write that off. What's one of the weirdest thing, Chris, is that the, out of all the crimes, okay, and we know we've gone through the me too movement, you know, we've gone through everything this is, and I can't think of another crime that has more silent victims. I can't think of one because you have to understand when a, and most of these individuals that get affected are retirees. Okay.

So it's not like when they're playing chicken foot with their, you know, their friends and it's, oh, you're not going to believe what happened. I lost a quarter of a million dollars from a Ponzi. It never comes up. Okay. And here's the worst part. Because the families are so affected again, most of the retirees, they are so embarrassed and ashamed that they were a victim. Like they had anything to do with it. I mean, Chris, I'm not kidding. Typically in a Ponzi, one to three people usually are all that knows about it, the owner and a couple close confidants, like the Madoff kids. That's why I want them to commit suicide. You can't wear that weight

unless you're a sociopath and not take your own life. Because when you know that you personally out of your own greed, cost so much devastation. I'm not kidding, Chris, you can't see these victims before and after and you see how much medication they have to take to function. They become walking zombies. so I'm not kidding, Chris, the reason why this one, because you know, we do retirement planning, done it for years. So I work closely with financial advisors. I don't deal with the investments. They do.

I build an engineer, orchestrate the plan, architect the plan, they handle the investments. I've sat across the table from their clients for years. They're like family to me. And to watch what happens after this and to watch the just a complete meltdown of the family From it's you know, like in the 1980s we had those, you know, there's like a little glass things You put that little white disk in and it's red and you click the thing and the picture spin around right? Yeah It's it's them. It's their faces haunt me. And so I just kind of had this crazy idea

Look, let's do something stupid and see if we can raise a lot of awareness and more importantly, fundraising for these families. And so this is my second year to do this charity bike ride. In the last two years, I'm sponsoring one particular Ponzi. So every year I do this, I sponsor a Ponzi to really shine the light on the families and the perpetrator and just really bring awareness and hopefully fingers crossed healing to these families because they deserve it and they're amazing. And so this year is for the star grower Ponzi and you've got a gentleman. This is the best progress. So these crooks, this is typically the way it goes. They always get sent to club fed, but we get that. Okay.

So they're always hanging out with the, you know, the pedos, the guys, literally that, you know, they walk around, there's no fence around this place. They go home for the holidays. I swear to you, they go home for the holidays. So this guy steals over $8 million from 40 families. He only goes to jail because they caught about a million million, half of it. That he went overseas to China and came back. So they nailed him for tax evasion, you know, the Al Capone stuff.

So they sentenced to five years. And of course, because he's such a good man, this dude gets out two years early. And guess what? In his mind, Oh, I paid my due to society while he's living. As you know, they had all that money, bro, while he's living on these retirees money. And so for me, bro, this is until we make them all, I can't stop. I can't. Here's the thing. This is I can't sleep. It's a burden. So this is burden. This has nothing to do other than let's make these families whole. Let's bring awareness and attention to this cause because nobody's talking about it.

Yeah, definitely. It's it's you know, there's people that, you know, I mean, being they shouldn't be punished for sometimes, you know, being maybe a little uneducated or gullible. You know, these people, they're, they build trust. They're good at narcissism. They're good at tricking people. They're pretty professionals and they're, they're basically sociopaths. I mean, they're, and they're always completely removed from the claim. So the way this thing flows, and this is what nobody gets, you've got somebody that orchestrates a scheme and they make their company look great. They do all the documents they need to be by the book for the broker dealer. And they get a contract with a broker dealer. And then there's financial advisors, their whole career, relationships, great people who have a contract with the broker dealer. Okay. You know, the advisor knows nothing about it. They just have a contract with a broker dealer. Okay, you know the advisor knows nothing about it.

They just have a contract with the broker dealer and this is a portfolio of options in the within the broker dealer. And you have the client. Chris, the worst part is I saw it. One of the gentlemen this happened to, he almost committed suicide. It ruined him.

And advisor, both of these guys, couple of my good close friends affected by losing their career, license their name their reputation I'm talking guys at the top of their industry as much victims and guess what? The one guy that gets to steal at all to him. It's just a dollar bill. He has no relationship with these people He doesn't and so he just gets to sit and then he comes out. He's like, you know, I've got all this money, I paid my dues. And now he sits on that money. And while they're still trying to figure out how they're supposed to tell their kids that their inheritance is gone.

Yeah. And I imagine it breaks up when it comes to suicide and depression. I imagine it breaks up families. You know, you're embarrassed to your family that you let this happen. You're supposed to, you know, take care of them. You know, I can embarrassed that it's your family that you let this happen. You're supposed to you know, take care of them You know, I can imagine that there's a lot of emotional fall from this and some people can't recover, you know I mean they I remember their Bernie made off people, you know there was a lot of movie stars people that put their nest eggs in there and Not trying to defend movie stars, but but there was also a lot of just normal mom and pop You know just normal blue was also a lot of just normal mom and pop, you know, just normal blue collar people.

A lot of them, I would say probably the majority of them, because you know, they invested in these funds and these funds had a big large money in there. So the same way, if you don't, you know, blue collar, you invested some part of your retirement in a fund. That's what you did. So much of that money. Yes. And I agree with you.

I mean, you know, I'm playing the world's smallest violin for those that can't see it because, oh, man, celebrity. Oh, you know, same thing like with the California fires. Oh, I'm sorry that one of your five houses burned down. You know, it's just difficult. Oh, thank you. You girls are not calling yourself astronauts for being in space, kind of floating for four minutes. And you literally call yourself a John Glenn. I don't, and nobody has any patience for that stuff. And, but these are just working class blue collar people. You get, you know, I mean, they're the ones that it's hard to replace that sort of wealth. I mean, especially if you're an older person, you know, I mean, I

studied to be a stockbroker and couldn't quite pass the test, but I was 20. I'll rack it. Not easy. My brain was not fully formed and developed, but I was 20. I'll rack it up. They're not easy. My brain was not fully formed and developed, but it was the trickery questions that got me. And we had a bad teaching school. But one of the things they teach you is older folks that are headed towards retirement or close retirement shouldn't be gambling heavy with their money.

When you're 20 and 30, you can take some risky stocks on and different investments. But when you're older, you don't have room to move. You lose everything. I'm not your ally. So you can't, that's the difficult thing. You can't get it back. That's what always drove me nuts about normal, I always call them friendly neighborhood advisors because they're like, oh, if we just average 8% and the market's done that over the last

30 years, like idiot, that's you putting a hundred percent in the stock market, by the way. And that's also without you subtracting your baloney fees. So you're telling me that you're going to take a 70 year old to get them the same 8% you're promising a hundred percent of in the market. No way you would never do that. But because they make them sign these disclosures and these five pages of, you know, four point font of, you know, it's hypotheticals, you know, passive doesn't guarantee future, blah, blah, blah. I didn't guarantee you would get 8%. But you said it a thousand times and you gave me illustrations for it. But I didn't do it. You should have read your stuff. It's just not right, man. And I really feel, you

know, with these individuals, somebody, man, I'm just a, I'm a big advocate for the voiceless. I've always been like that. And, and luckily for me, I've done enough psychopath events where I always tell everybody, cause I was born half paralyzed. I wasn't supposed to make it in my whole life. I've done impossible things. Like I saw my very first mile when I was eight years old. And so tell us about that.

Cause that's a great story. I was born severely deformed and, and so I, and severe chronic asthma. So I could not do any normal sport. If I had a little just ran across the yard, it would be an instantaneous asthma attack and it was so bad. I've almost died multiple times. I know exactly what it feels like before I'm minutes from dying. I know exactly what it feels like.

It's actually very peaceful to be honest with you. Uh, you just want to go to sleep. But then my parents got me into swimming and for some reason I could swim for hours, but it didn't affect my lungs. And my parents were, I have a very big heart for the military. My, all my parents, my mom, my natural dad, my adopted dad were all air traffic controllers in the Navy. And yeah, we moved every few years.

And so I actually grew up in Philadelphia. I didn't even know I was white until I moved to Texas. I'm being honest. Okay. And so as my parents, you parents, you know, there was a naval air station up in Philly called NAS Willa Grove. Any of you old school Navy people remember that? You know, George Senior closed most of those Navy bases down, but NAS Willa Grove is where I grew up, got on the swim team. And then at the end of this one particular, I think it's my second year of swimming. Then, you know, you always have to raise money for the American heart association. And, you know, you get a pledge per lap. Okay. So this is way, this is in the eighties, like mid early eighties. Okay.

So there's clearly no Google. Right. And my dad, I said, I'm going to do this. And he goes, I said, Oh yeah. Oh pops. Hey, how many lapses in a mile? And he goes, I don't know, but you've never swung more than four laps in your whole life. It's not going to happen. And I said, yeah, but just find out. So like the week goes by and it pops. How many laps in a mile?

I don't know son, but you've never said more than four laps in your whole life. You can't do it. Hey, I hear you, but find out. And next week he says, I said, pops, he said it's 52 laps. I said, okay, cool. I'm a swim a mile. He says, I said, pops up, he said, it's 52 laps. I said, okay, cool. I'm a swim mile. And so the, any, anytime I think about it, because there's a few times in my life that, um, where you get so much approval from your dad, you know? And so I remember I start with all the kids, you know, in the pool and, and by, I got to lap 10, okay.

Out of 52, 10 and all of a sudden kids started getting out of the pool. The best swimmers were in. And so I was like, okay, just keep going. And by like lap 15, anytime is swimming. When you do long swimming, they always give you lap counters and they drop them in the pool and they'll flip the cards over. So you see where you're at. Cause the thing about endurance events is you must escape in your mind. You have to, you cannot be thinking about where you're at. Because the thing about endurance events is you must escape in your mind. You have to, you

cannot be thinking about where you're doing. You have to go somewhere else. Okay. It's got to be your own choose your adventure in your mind. You can't be thinking about the event. So you have to drop it in so you kind of know where you're at. And when I got to lap 20, there's nobody in the pool. And so I said, okay. And so I keep going. And then I remember like it was yesterday, because anytime you're swimming, okay. So when you swim, you, you can see sort of people here, but you're looking through water. So it's like furry, fuzzy. And so I see everybody walking, they're cheering me and my dad's at the end of the pool, you know? And so we keep swimming. I hit a lot 40, 50, and then I hit 52 and he grabs me, pulls me out, man. It was, I don't know, man. It was for me, probably, I mean, obviously it's one of the most proud

moments ever of my whole life. But that really was my beginning of realizing that I actually have a broken limit meter. I've done, I was born with deformed feet, I have a very bad foot disorder I was born with deformed feet, a very bad foot disorder, and my feet bones are, walking is painful. Walking is painful. And I decided 15 years ago, I was going to run a marathon. Yeah, but you can't. Yeah, but I'm going to. And I remember the very first day of training, your coaches, I need you, we're going to go three miles. It's going to be basically, you're just walking at a quick pace. You're going to be walking, you're going to be jogging so slow. You can have a full conversation with your neighbor. I couldn't, I was having a full asthma attack with that. And yeah, fast forward the week before. And it was the big D marathon here in Dallas.

This is 15. The week before I had horrific shin splints and bone spurs. And, and so the doctors, I had my legs scanned the week before because they weren't so much pain for my training the day the event I was like, that's no big deal. Papa hide a couple hydros get those legs numb. We're gonna run that in him So that's kind of the way I've always been Chris It's just one of those that you can't do it like what we're dreaming for small business If we do it what we're working on will rewrite history and we'll save the mom and pop you if you can't do it like what we're doing for small business. If we do it, what we're working on, we'll rewrite history and we'll save the mom and pop.

You, if you can't tell for me, it's either we save the world or we just don't do it. And so that's what this is. And the crazy thing is how this idea came about. Okay. This is a few years ago. And one of my close friends, RJ, this dude, we've been friends, tight friends for 30 years. Matter of fact, our, his daughter and my son went to prom together and asked friends.

And so we, we were hanging out and he does about every few years, he and thousands of motorcycle riders ride their motorcycles in Washington, DC for Memorial Day. It's a huge motorcycle route. Okay. And so every few years they do this every year, but every few years he participates. And so he was telling me about it and about how usually they leave down like four or five days before, and then they'll like party all weekend. And then, you know, they come back and as he's talking, all of a sudden, and you have to understand,

I get these like premonitions. And when I have them, I've had my whole life, I've had a thousand percent, when I have them, it's gonna happen. And as he's talking, all of a sudden my spirit says, you're gonna ride your bike from Dallas to DC. I'm like, literally, and as he's talking, I'm like, what the shit? I'm like, I can't, what does that even mean? You're like, what?

And so the thing, I've had so many of these, I have learned the, I get the vision first and I have to wait for the vision, like how it happens. That always comes later. Okay. Almost like that Indiana Jones movie where it's the faith of step. It's the step of faith where, you know, you just take that full step off the cliff and then the step appears. It's like, and so I went in and I said, I don't even know what that even means.

And I told RJ, I said, I think I'm supposed to run my bike to DC. What? I don't then Chris, it happened just like this. It's not even 1% exaggeration. And this is the way it always happens with me. The next week I'm on the phone with my executive coach, Lauren. And I'm like, Lauren, I'm going to throw a little monkey wrench in our plans. I think this is something I'm supposed to do.

Ride my bike from Dallas, DC. I don't even know what that even means. And she said, you know, I swear Chris, anytime somebody starts with, you know, I know God's opening doors of provision. I know. And by the way, I was in ministry for 10 years and pastored for some of those 10 years. So I tell everybody I'm the swearing pastor.

So you will hear me swear a lot. I won't do it on the show. I only do that typical when I'm passionate, but, but I'm talking to Lauren and I said, I think I've got this crazy idea to ride my bike from Dallas, DC. And she said, you know, I have a good friend of mine, Tracy, that did something real similar a few years ago. She rode her bike from California to New York and she did it to raise awareness and fundraising for diabetes.

And she actually got on the doctor. I show, I can connect you guys if you want. I said, I mean, Chris, you gotta understand something. There's only half a dozen people like on the planet have done anything like this. Okay. Yeah. Warren, my coach knows one of them. And then I say, hey, like where's she at? She was, oh, she's like in the Fort Worth area. What? What? Okay. So she connects us and the next week, she's my coach and Chris watched

this and watched this because I've done enough endurance events. Okay. 120, 150 mile bike rides because biking is my thing because for my feet, it's way less painful on the legs, not necessarily on the torso. You know what I'm saying? And so I, I've done enough of these events that to train for a one-day 120 150 mile bike ride is It's about five months of training. Okay, this is a hundred miles a day for five or six weeks Jesus that's a lot. It's a lot and I said and so I talked to Tracy. I said Tracy I'm panicking

I'm that's one of my big fears is being unprepared. Like it's a huge phobia of mine. And so I said, what's, um, I'm so stressed about the training. And here's what she says to me. What training I thought Ashton was about to pop out. Cause I was being pumped. I was like, what are you talking about? What training? Hello, the elephant in the room, the training.

And she goes, yeah, she was, but you have to understand this is not a race. Okay. And she said, let, she was, but you have to understand this is not a race. Okay. She said, let me ask you something. When you're 12 years old, how much training did you need when your parents locked you out of the house on Saturday? And how much training did you need to go ride your bike all day Saturday? I said zero. She goes, that's what this is.

This is just a Saturday morning bike ride for a hundred miles. Wow. And that's what she was like, look, this is not a race. She said, when you get tired, you're done. And she said, but also don't forget. And by the way, all this is true. She goes, your bike is going to break. Mine broke five times last year, meaning it needed to be in a bike shop

overnight five times last year. Also, she said, you're going to, you're going to catch bad weather. And we did last year during the Oklahoma tornadoes, we were in OKC for three days under a tornado warning and she said, oh and don't forget this whole thing's for PR So on the ride, you're gonna have all these cities and when interview you and all that stuff And so she said this is easy If you didn't know stopping and you just went every day about how long do you think it would take you and I said? Probably about three weeks. She goes, good, double that, double that. And I said, Oh, okay. And five and a half weeks later we left because obviously we do accounting. And so we cannot leave before

April 15th. Hala. So we, we left the Monday, last year we left the Monday after tax day, the 22nd, which happened to be earth day that year. Wasn't like we did for Earth Day. And we pulled in to DC on Memorial Day. Yeah. And I think Chris nailed it. Yeah. But the worst part we get to DC and I'm like, I'm not kidding. One of the main things that's gotten me excited.

That's keeping me going this whole time is seeing tens of thousands of motorcyclists, zero, none of them, none of them were in DC zero. That's because they left the day before. What I didn't know is all these guys come in on a Thursday or Friday, they party for a couple of days. And by Saturday they're heading back home, you know, cause I got work next week. So I end up missing all of the Motorcyclists this year. We actually toward the end of May so we're gonna completely bypass We will not even be there close to Memorial Day, but I'm still pulling in the capital steps Not until we get laws changed for these families. I won't stop. Unless I'm DRC, dead in a coma,

it's the only way this is not going to happen. I'm sort of crazy. I'm a little psychopath, but for good, all for good. Pete Slauson Are we all though sometimes when it really comes down to it? Let's talk about a couple things here. We've gone a little bit long. Let's get a plug-in for your other websites. I know you have a podcast on your website. Let's get a plugin for your business. Tell people how they can onboard as we go out. Absolutely.

My wife and I, Rebecca and I, small business accounting firm, the website is ibmsb.com. Interstate business management. We've been, Rebecca and I were actually able to buy the company years ago from last surviving owner. So we're going on 60 years of business. And honestly, it's so intentional to keep it separate because this is never ever a plug for that. But I do want you,

if you're listening or you know somebody that was affected by this, understand, there's only a handful of companies, accounting firms out there that even know about this form 4684 and how it benefits the individual. Anybody that's been affected by that, we will do their personal returns for free. So if you're listening, the only reason why we're plugging the accounting firm is only because you find your accountant, let them know about form 4684. And if you're not comfortable reaching out to us, we will take care of you or your family or whoever it is. You know, it's such a big deal.

And remember this expires the end of this year. We're trying to get this to president Trump, or he can just stroke a pen and make it permanent because it's helping so many people it's helping to. I always, it's just to kind of put a bow on this and be like, okay, it's not all horrible, you know, and you know, my goal is still fundraising and where we can actually make these people whole with that. But this is just, this is an amazing opportunity to recapture some of that through our amazing tax code that we have.

So tell people how they can reach out, how they can support your efforts, how they can work with you, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. Ponzi relief.org. That's the big website. Please look, if you don't want to do anything, just go and give me 10 seconds and just sign that petition Just sign it. Okay, so I'm looking I want 50,000 signatures this year I think if we get 50,000 signatures and then we can get somebody that knows and knows somebody in the current administration

They can just get somebody to see it All we have to do is strike a pin and we can keep this in place because it's helping way, way too many people, Chris. Wow. Thank you very much for coming on. We really appreciate it. I mean, you've done such a wonderful job living your life. I love the story of how you grew up, you know,

with the Phoenix from the ashes, a great story and would make a great book maybe story that you should put down. If you get on it, to me, it's just my normal life. Like, okay, are you an idiot? That right there, that one, I have 50 of those in my life, you know? So I appreciate you more than you know, it'll be a thick book. Thank you.

500 pages. Well, break it into two or three. They don't really make it like a Lord of the Rings trilogy. Yeah. Make it a trilogy and ongoing. It sounds so it'll be fun to watch you as you go forward. So thank you very much, Aaron, for being on the show. We really appreciate it. I appreciate you, sir. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in. Go to Goodreads.com, Fortress, Chris Foss, LinkedIn.com, Fortress, Chris Foss, Chris Foss, one of the TikTokkini and Facebook.com Fortress, Chris Foss. Be one of the tiktok and he and facebook.com

fortress chris fos be good to each other stay safe we'll see you guys next time and that's your episode erin great