The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Aja.com NAB Show 2022 Interview

Episode Date: May 6, 2022

Aja.com NAB Show 2022 Interview Aja.com

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times. Because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain now here's your host chris voss hi folks it's voss here from the chris voss show dot com the chris voss show i was gonna say are you ready for the brain brain my brain is bleeding so much i can't even do that opener are you ready for the brain bleed anyway i clearly wow okay well i'm gonna get that patch i think it's coming out

my ear into the headphones hey guys thank you uh for tuning into the show we certainly appreciate you guys being here as always refer the show to your friends neighbors relatives get them to join the family that loves you but doesn't judge you. The best kind of family there is. Also go to goodreads.com, 4S Chris Voss, youtube.com, 4S Chris Voss. Our big 122,000 person LinkedIn group and the LinkedIn newsletter. That thing is killing it over there. People just love the hell out of that newsletter thing. LinkedIn is just so freaking amazing. Today we have some amazing folks on the show with us today.

We have the director of product marketing for AJA Video. Bryce Button folks on the show with us today. We have the Director of Product Marketing for AJA Video, Bryce Button, is on the show with us. We're going to be talking about NEB Show, the National Association of Broadcasters show that just went down in 2022. For those of you watching this, it's going to take years from now. You'll be like, when was this? Welcome to the show, Bryce. How are you? Great. Thank you, Chris.

Great to be here. And I promise not to make anyone ears bleed if I can help it. No, that's my job. That's my job. So that's what I do. So welcome to the show. Give us your guys' dot com so people can find you on the interwebs. Yeah.

So you would like to visit AJA.com. So AbrahamJonathan at AJA.com. And for a brief rundown of everything we're showing at the show, you'll actually get a What's New link right on the homepage. You can go check that out, which will help give you more context around today's discussion. There you go. So what do you guys do as an overview of all the different products you have and create? Yeah, so AJA is coming up on our 30th anniversary next year the time's flown by

i started out building little mini converters which is all the way back i'm trying to get computers to work with video signals right at the beginning of things and then we went from mini converters into more serious frames and converters where you're having handling a ton of of work whether it's all the embedding, disembedding, while doing slight color adjustments, converting frame rates, all sorts of things. Then we went into digital recorders. So we were the first to work with Apple and actually put ProRes in a physical device at the time. Oh, wow. Which was a big deal because on your laptop,

it was a slow grind working with ProRes in the early days where the Key Pro was a real-time plug-in SDI HDMI recorder and choose your ProRes type and off you went. We also got into desktop I.O. cards initially and then took that forward into Thunderbolt products. I love blind devices. Those have been huge for editing, color correction,

video effects, all sorts of stuff. And then from there, we've really blossomed and grown out with all sorts

of bridge products. We consider these our gateway products and that's enabled people to work with

NDI and streaming protocols, SDI, mix matches needed because we now have a lot of various options for video transport in the market and all the streaming protocols, SDI, mix-match as needed because we now have a lot of various options for video transport in the market. And then one of our latest initiatives is also being tackling

the wild and crazy world of media management because the stats are telling us that we're looking at producing as much media in the next three years as an industry as we have in the last 30 years. Holy crap. So it's going to get out of hand. And so being able to actually figure out where's your material sitting? Is it on my USB drive in the closet? Is it in the cloud?

And if so, where and how much is it costing me? All those kinds of things are going to have to be tackled and human beings trying to do sort of spreadsheet copies or what's where at this point. You're going to be outstripped and it's going to cost too much money. So yeah, it's really interesting stuff. So we're in multiple areas of the business and converters are still the main line of things. We also have a bit of a quieter end of the business in terms of what the public sees.

We work with about 400 and something OEMs. You'll actually find our stuff in all sorts of places, including 60% of the world's projectors. Oh, wow. Yeah. So we've got a, we've got a large footprint, but it's not always overly public.

You know what I mean? We let our OEMs drive their own marketing, that kind of thing that's pretty amazing working with apple too and then you've got i'm looking at your product lineup here mini converters digital recorders mobile io desktop ios aj discover me which i think is probably your software maybe streaming ip video frame sync open gear routers recording media developer products software hdr image analyzer, and cameras. You guys do it all when it really comes down to this stuff.

Yeah, our company, you know, pretty much close to, if not more than 50% of the company are pure engineers, which is a very heavy, you know, balance. And it's because we hire as many of the best people as we can find in the business. And then we also work alongside a range of partners as well. You know, we're not shy to partner with a particular group. When it came to HDR in the very early days, we've been doing it for some time.

We've been pushing that entire market through our FSHDR product. You know, we'll partner with groups like Colorfront and so on, who literally defined a lot of the color signs in Cinnamon. So they're perfect partners to deal with something that can be tricky in terms of producing HDR. And then we work with groups like the BBC because they have a different approach for HDR when it comes to live television, for instance, something called HLG. So that's hybrid log gamma. And the strength of that approach is that doesn't require metadata. It's embedded in the video signal.

And for live, that's a huge thing. Oh, yeah. So you can move it all the way from camera to, you know, wherever the viewer is sitting in the room. Because almost all of your displays you buy today for home have got HLG support. So, yeah, there's a lot of different approaches. And so it means we have a lot of engineering boys working their butts off to try to help us bridge things.

Because the whole purpose of this company from the beginning and the very first converter ever built was to get from one port type to another, take video transport signals from one protocol to another, and that still very much lies at the heart of what we do. Video is everything these days, especially, you know, it's everything, especially in streaming. I mean, it's gotten to the point, especially with 5G now, where there's so much you can do and the quality is so much better.

I remember we started the podcast like 12 years ago. We tried doing video podcasts from the very get-go. And back then, everyone had 3G phones. So we had to give it up at the time because we're like, yeah, this is just no one's doing this. I noticed on your website here you have something about some AI products. Is that your guys' AI? In terms of AI, we are engaged in more direct conversations with groups like NVIDIA.

And so what that means is in terms of the announcements we made publicly, a lot of the industries have crossed over the last few years, making it as simple as ProAV. We knew we were going to have to drive large displays for what has now become virtual production. And then in something like the medical space, NVIDIA's CEO has pretty much announced that they are pursuing video within the medical space as a very big income earner for the future.

And it's got a social purpose, and that is to make surgery safer and more detailed. And so our engagement there becomes sort of a joint process where we work with a group like NVIDIA. They've got newer boxes that they're currently working on, which is standalone boxes called Clara, and on the Jetson platform as well. And what that means is we will be attached of a 12G SDI to a camera. Most cameras in the medical business, by the way, tend to be alone.

This is what other makers as well. But you've got these really, really small cameras that can be inserted in the body business, by the way, tend to be a lot of other makers as well. But you've got these really, really small cameras that can be inserted in the body during surgery. And then the AI portion kicks in without Link providing the signal to an

NVIDIA solution like this. And then they use an AI to present a ton of real-time graphics, you know, all sorts of things over the signal. So as the surgeon is working, he's only having to look at one screen where all that information is presented in a way that keeps things safe. So, yes, AI as well.

You know, if you're an editor, for instance, and you're working with the latest Adobe Creative Cloud products, you're going to find that AI is slowly creeping into each product. So stuff like Premiere, for instance, will use AI to automatically create a closed caption track or a transcript literally from the audio on the timeline you've cut. And we're going to continue to see this kind of machine learning appear in all sorts of tools. It's pretty amazing. That is pretty amazing is what's out there. So who are mostly your customers? Are they mostly people in the media who are producing video for media and stuff? So what we found is our solid base from the get-go was based around broadcast.

Our founder came out of broadcast stations. Lots of history. He had worked at a big company called Grass Valley. It was the heart of the switcher business in the early days and still is a big player. And so we honed out our tools and our skill sets over the years to provide what has to work reliably in every single day. There isn't a network out there where our kid is not in there because we're about the strictest in the business in terms of latency,

reliability, and so on. So we've got a very strict background and that has served us well as things have gone forward and we've grown into much bigger audiences. So whether that's pro AV, live concerts, events, all that type of stuff with videos involved. And then streaming, of course, we have a range of streaming products. And, you know, I think the biggest social change there is that that access to streaming, lots of folks, yourself included, right,

can do effectively become a broadcaster of sorts. And our discipline there on the streaming and latency fronts has made our streaming products very popular as well. So we try to put out tools there that are extremely close to real-time in terms of delivery and offer a range of different features. So our demographics at this point are kind of broad and wide, you know, education, for

instance, during COVID. Yeah. It meant all these schools and many media departments at schools are being basically asked to take their learning, their tool sets, and then provide them to other instructors and other course programs so they can handle the out-of-classroom stuff. And I don't think that goes away once lockdowns have completely gone around the globe because it's effectively potentially another form of income for the college. They can have the students on campus and then they can continue to do online classes.

Houses of worship have been very big for us. Wow. Yeah. You know, again, streaming, just folks needing to use multiple cameras, you know. Yeah. Some of the churches you go to today, the sophistication of the live band stuff is pretty close to, you know, a mid-sized concert. Yeah. So they've been able to utilize a lot of our kit.

Yeah, so I think you can gather here that it may have started out in a stricter, narrower niche of highly professional staff that were supporting workloads at this point across the board. Yeah, I think people's behaviors have really adapted to being able to either work from home or being able to stream. I remember three years ago, it was the popcorn lady. I forget her full name, but I think popcorn is her last name. But she wrote a series of popcorn books. And I remember in 1989, she said to me, people are moving further and further deeper into their homes. They are

bunkering up and you're going to have to get to them more and more and more. And I was just amazed at how profound her prediction was, you know. And now, I mean, with COVID, it just really created a barricade. And you have companies now that they're just having to almost give up and go, look, if you guys want to work at home, work at home. And so they're going to have to deal with, you know, like you say, a lot of the media streaming, I think churches as well. You know, I don't, I don't know if, you know, people are going to be hopping back as much with COVID and being like, let's go to work, let's go to church and let's go to these things. You know, I know, I know I did for a little while where I'm like, let's go to work, let's go to church, and let's go to these things. You know, I know I did for a little while.

I'm like, I get to go out and run around for a while. But, you know, people have gotten really used to living a lifestyle where they're like, hey, you can just come to me in my home. Yeah, there's a lot of that, you know, and we had to adapt our tool sets. We had actually started this quite some time before COVID because we predicted that a lot of the facilities would go down to leaner staff on site, and a lot of the creative talent had already been pushing to sort of work more remotely or a production wanted to bring in varied talent

from across the country, across the globe. So we built actual remote control and configuration into all our major tools quite some time ago. So all our key boxes, whether they're recorders, even things like routers and majority of our big products that aren't just little throw down mini converters that you'd have on a set. They all have built in web service, allowing the user to actually control them just

using a typical web browser like we're on today and revealing the entire interface and the ability to you know, even upload fresh firmware, whatever's needed and then save presets for how you're utilizing the tool and controlling the streams or whatever you're working with

or video transport, whether that's over baseband video, in other words, what you see on TV, and you have a normal Pro-X cable, or one of those streaming protocols that are now prevalent everywhere. So, yeah, it's been really interesting to see how well that has stood us because it also means the majority of the time outside of desktop,

IOCons, for instance, you're actually doing everything over the internet there without having to use proprietary software. So that's been very popular for a lot of our users. Let me ask you this. You know, a lot of people have Zoom fatigue.

Do companies, especially ones that, you know, like Airbnb just recently came out and said, hey, if everyone wants to work at home, I think Twitter was the same way. I think some people are maybe hybrid. You know, it's kind of all over the place a little bit right now, but companies are finding they're having a hard time clawing back people back into the office and people are like,

yeah, I'll go work for somebody who can let me be at home. And workers have choice right now. Do maybe companies need to start thinking, CEOs and executives start needing to thinking, we need to move beyond the standard Zoom thing

and maybe move to using know like using products like yours for multi-dimensional multi-camera functions presentations different ways to engage the audience more you know i've had to think about how you know in my book about leadership i've had to think about how you know how do you lead now if people aren't in your in your office or your sphere you've got to lead to the? You've got to lead through the camera. You've got to lead through and affect people through this whole new work-at-home thing. What do you think about that? I think you've hit it on the head.

Our Realities, for instance, is one of the most popular products that we put out there just prior to COVID and really took off was it's called the u-tap for instance so the first thing that does is that's a little usb3 connection to your you know desktop or laptop and it receives either sdi or hdmi video and what that means is you can plug in a reasonably priced camera that gives you more control of optics zooms below depth of, all that kind of thing, which already ups the level. And then on the desktop side, we have taken most of our

Thunderbolt 3 boxes, which supply multiple channels of IO, and then we initially had a lot of success with streaming packages, for instance, like vMix or Wirecast from Telestream. And then in our latest SDK stuff we took,

for the first time we made available a software development kit within the open source world. Then a group like OBS, which's say within a couple of weeks, had gone through and tweaked the SDK so their software, which allows multiple cameras, the ability to switch between them, and we're talking really cheap

software here, can be utilized because precisely what you're saying, folks are wanting to add a bit more. And especially if they've got let's say multiple offices you might be getting you know one input coming from one one location another from another and you're putting them all in the same place we've done a lot of work around game engine support yeah gaming yeah it's huge right, because that's part of, you know, we've worked with Epic and the guys and software like Unity,

and the purpose there is to create some pretty sophisticated virtual sets. And, you know, so that stuff started with sort of the bigger items, like trying to handle Wimbledon. You know, the actual physical interview room at Wimbledon is a pretty small room. It really only fits a couple of chairs, but that doesn't look very sexy on TV. So they generated 3D models. And in real time, those models' perspective is basically linked to any camera movement. So it real and you have the super bowl and stuff like that we've put or helped put the particular producer or broadcaster in a place

where they can put massive graphics on the field that don't actually exist and best you know desks and various things with hosts behind them that don't actually exist in the physical reality. So this kind of thing is becoming more and more common and it's going to enable groups on much smaller budgets to be able to do sophisticated stuff. You know, I've done a lot of interviews with groups in England, for instance, Kit Plus is an example where it's two guys that run it and they've got a setup. And when they interview me, we all look like we're in the same room. The truth is I'm sitting here in Colorado and in the UK, they live about 50 miles apart from each other, but it all looks like a unified single studio. So, yeah, it's really exciting.

I've never been able to quite leave this industry even when i felt exhausted because the challenges are just too much fun yeah and in video i mean like with 5g and everything else and thanks heather for your uh to your input there there's a good question how to lead in the hybrid environment you know to me i could see i i kind of have a vision i'm not a visionary but i i play one on podcasts. But I would think that, okay, if I was a CEO, I'd sit down and go, okay, we have people behind this Zoom thing that's almost worse than corporate meetings where people are just like, what the heck? Why am I here? You know, I'll see my friends that work for corporations.

They're just like, this is my 20th Zoom meeting today. Yep. And I imagine, you know, you need something that can fire up the troops, that can motivate people. It's exciting. You know, companies maybe need, you know, because I've been to, you know, every year we go to AT&T's, a big CEO presentation they do to devs and stuff. We cover that with press and a lot of different press stuff with CS and all the shows all year round. And so we go to those events, and, you know, they're multimedia events.

You know, they have this spectacular trailer film that comes on and says, you know, AT&T is doing this and doing that and changing the world. You know, it's basically like a movie sort of play. And I think more companies need to think that, hey, we need to do this. We need to fire up the troops. We need to motivate people. We need to get people excited about what's going on. You know, vision is more important now than ever because you've got so many people that are like, hey, I can go to work over here. I can go to work over there. I

can go to work over here. It's like, you know, they have a million suitors they can possibly have. So they want to work for people who are exciting, innovative, motivating people who can communicate that vision. And, you know, people like I say are tired of the are tired of the another zoom meeting, you know, and, you know, you see all the jokes of people who are like, you know, they have all these ways of faking their green screens and the fact that they're paying attention. Like they're just like locking into screen. They green screens and the fact that they're paying attention. Like, they're just, like, locking into screens. They're like this the whole time. Right. It's like some picture they've uploaded and they're off, I don't know, eating bonbons or something to watch TV. So, yeah, to me, video is, like, really huge.

I knew that this would eventually come in this age, but it took a long time to do. But between YouTube Live, LinkedIn Live, we really love LinkedIn live, Facebook live. I mean, people love the live experience. A lot of the YouTube channels now that are the biggest on YouTube are live. And so the interaction, the community that you build, I mean, it really is everything. Anything more you want to touch on or anything interesting you see coming up in the future that you guys are excited about? Sure. A couple of things. One is we just came out of NAB and I'm pleased that, you know, our brand new streaming product, which is very affordably priced at $16.99 and supports two

channels of encoding in the same box. And you can go to two different destinations or you can combine them. And one product at the end. Oh, wow. I think it makes a lot of sense because what we've done with it is if you're doing, especially in the corporate environments where the budgets may be lower per piece of kit or if you're kind of doing a lot of your own shooting,

editing, what have you, and then you need to do a streamed and also recorded session. You can actually import graphics into this little box, up to 99 Photoshop images with alpha channels and so on. And you can actually do sets of layouts. Each one can be a little different for the type of event. And you can combine those two video inputs, and you can scale them down,

put them against the color map background and then add these these graphics. And then during the process of going live, if we were sitting here right now within the interface for that product, you basically got 10 what we call shotbox buttons, you previously set up your layouts and you can just click them during the live broadcast as you and I i you know bounce back between each other for elements you want to put up there or titles you can do all of that in real time so it's a hell of a lot of power in a small little box and while it's not going to do all the sophisticated things of an expensive switch you got close you know to to basic decent cuts there and the other thing we've found is that for things like education or, as you were saying, trying to have better corporate meetings where you want to combine things, you can always use the HDMI input for the presentations coming from a laptop.

It's feeding the spots as well while you have the talking head in ui in this case and you know you can place them on screen so that's helo plus and then in terms of further roadmap type stuff we never announced products before we do them but hdr continues to be a huge thing for us you know we been leaning on this front, and HDR production is key. You've got to do it right up front to get good results. IP. IP is a really interesting one because there are many different approaches. For pure broadcast, you've got something that's known as SIMT 2110,

and that's about moving pretty heavy bandwidth uncompressed video. But then you've got a range of other opportunities today. You've got the standard streaming protocols, HEVC, the MPEGs, JPEG 2000. And we move that type of stuff now across the public internet, which a couple of years ago folks wouldn't do because they were concerned about the security of their intellectual property, right? You didn't want to have a production of something that was being transported

across the public internet and then getting stolen. Yeah. But since the introduction of a protocol called SRT, which stands for Secure Reliable Transport transport and it's a worldwide thing so ourselves and pretty much every major video manufacturer you can think of is signed into this alliance it gives you encrypted files so even if they were stolen nobody could do anything with them yeah but that's allowed us to literally transport video across the public internet with very low latency and it's completely secure. And so that new Helio Plus box is talking about original Helio, but this box is game SRT as well.

So that security is no longer an issue. But there are other forms of IP you know there's multiple standards so new tech as a company brought out something called ndi which again is using ip to move a more compressed signal which has become very practical for especially affiliate tv stations and nobody's immune to using the internet anymore anyway so every major broadcast or some kind of ott thing i happen to love formula one as a sport and then i utilize f1 tv app and you know the great thing there is you can literally choose click away on the feeds and go i want to watch my favorite driver's point of view camera right now instead of the typical broadcast so all all those kinds of things and the expansion of it is huge.

And then, yeah, as I said, it's so much fun and so challenging to look at all the things people want to do that we'll continue to work with a ton of partners, as I mentioned up front, and folks have got a lot of great ideas. So, yeah, we have to sift them, of course. We only have X amount of human resources. But we do our best to pick the most impactful ideas and protocols and codecs and that type of thing to engage with. Yeah, it's really, I think people want more,

they want to be able to do what they want. Like the old days of like watching whatever camera angle they decide to see or tracking this guy or that guy, you want to go see your guy. I was watching an NFL practice of a team, and it appeared that they were using some sort of drone, probably a small drone, and it thinks you move zipping fast. And they were coming around kind of like a u-angle over the top of running in the play and and it made for such a much better sort

of experience than you know a static sort of shot you know they do have that one cable or the camera that runs over the top to middle and come around a little bit but this thing was like one of those it had to have been a flying drone because it could go up and then it could dip down and i'm at you know being one of those small drones there's not maybe quite as much danger to the players although i don't know you know those drones can't go back they're pretty sophisticated these days but you know you never know i mean in a stadium though with lots of signals i don't know how they imagine there's some way they have to overcome that. Fun is fun. It's been wonderful to have you on, Bryce.

It's been a great discussion, and hopefully it gave some people some, it looks like some people sent me some DMs over it. So, you know, people are rethinking their Zoom, their presentations, what their company is doing, you know. If I had a company Zoom thing, I'd probably have, you know, an exciting, fun announcement where people would be like, Welcome to the company Zoom meeting. Something to get you fired up in the morning and get, you know, get people going because, yeah, the Zoom burnout is huge nowadays. And companies need to be fun and connect with people. And it's so hard because you're having to reach across through,

you know, to them into their homes, as opposed to, you know, bringing them into a pep rally office meeting and doing all that stuff I used to do in the old days. Anyway, thank you very much, Bryce, for coming on. We certainly appreciate it. Absolutely. And, you know, if folks have got questions, don't be shy to reach out. I'll give you my work email. It's just Bryce, B-R-Y-C-E at AJA.com. We're always happy to take feedback. We get to make great products because we try our best to listen to a ton of the ideas that are out there, integrate them into current roadmaps we have. When we see fresh ideas coalesce around a particular topic, we obviously go do deeper research and see what they can mean. Because we're the type of company that looks at opportunities and challenges.

And as mentioned before, we're all about bridging stuff. So if we can get folks from one place to another, and it's always exciting to hear what those struggles may be. And as every year goes forward and we're dealing with different technologies, obviously we find that those challenges morph a bit or something completely fresh comes up, which is just fun. And for us as developers, it's a great playground. So thanks so much for having me on, Chris.

Thanks for coming on and covering our NAB coverage for NAB show 2022. For those of you watching years from now, tell us, give us your.com and tell us what shows people can catch you guys at in the future. Yeah, so AJ.com, simple as that, named after the owner's initials. If you say Azure, we don't care. As long as you're buying, you know, that's the sales routine. Of course, for shows paying forward, NAB, we largely did meeting rooms. We didn't do the big booth thing. We're going to do a booth at IBC in Amsterdam late in September.

I'm actually headed off to Barcelona come Sunday because that's ISE, which is the pro-AV show equivalent of what's known as Infocom here in the United States. So we're starting to go back to more shows now that, you know, things are calming down. You'll probably see smaller stands in general for exhibitors for a while here still. But the key thing is meeting people. You get to have conversations that are more off the cuff,

that are more about banging into the right person at the right time and discussing, you know, challenges. Every vendor out there is all about finding the challenge and trying to find the best tool or create the best tool to overcome it. So those kinds of discussions are invaluable. And then for me on the marketing side, of course, it allows me to sit with all the folks I meet in the press. And we've known each other for years now.

And talk about what that means. You know, I think if you're fresh to AJA type products, your best solution is once you get to AJA.com, just look in the menu system and look at our solution pages. So for each solution page, what we try to do is sort of lay out the topic and educate people on the topic before we get into our products that consist. Because having a good understanding of what technologies actually mean, what they're capable of, what the details are,

in the end, if you're a creative or you're a producer, understanding what they're about and how best to utilize them is really key before you make any decision on buying anything. So I think your viewers will find that very helpful. Definitely, definitely. And yeah, I love the idea of people, you know, I mean, making more entertainment, using your guys' products to make better Zooms, you know.

I mean, in some cases like Airbnb, I don't know how many employees they have. But, you know, when you're making a decision, an announcement that, yeah, you can work at home in perpetuity, you know, you need to come up with some media that's going to be entertaining. You know, for me, like I said, when I had my offices and massive employees, we'd always have the Monday pump-up meeting. You shuffle everybody in a room, and I'd do the dance of stupidity and rah-rah and clown show and whatever it takes to fire up the troops. We're going to have a great week. Let's go kick some butt. It was kind of that and a mixture of Glenn Gerrigan and Ross. Go close.

Coffee is for closers. Always be closing. There you go. Always be closing. So there's that. But, yeah, I mean, to me, that's where you really have to stand out because, you know, as employers now, you have to realize that these guys, you know, these people can flip through. I think I saw something like, I don't want to quote the figures, either 45 million or 4.5 million people switched jobs, I think, in this first quarter or March alone or something.

I'd seen it go across my news thing this morning, so forgive me for the numbers if they're off. But that's a lot of people switching jobs. That's true. There's a lot of people just moving about. And, you know, here in Utah, where I'm at, I can only report here because I know here, every single place you go to has notes on the door going, we're hiring. We'll do anything. Give us your first child. There's even one restaurant that I go to where they offer you a $100 gift card, you know, as a patron. If you refer somebody that goes to work there, I'm like, wow, I can get free food

here. Nice. I need to go find some people. I mean, I might just start walking the street. Hey, do you want to go to work in this restaurant? Cause I got a hundred dollars for this thing, free food. So, you know, employers need to think about this stuff and entertain more. Anyway, thank you very much, Bryce, for coming on.

We certainly appreciate it. Absolute pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. And thanks for, Bryce, for coming on. We certainly appreciate it. Absolute pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, and thanks, Manas, for tuning in. Go to youtube.com forward slash Chris Voss. See everything we're reading and reviewing over there in our forthcoming videos. As well, go to goodreads.com forward slash Chris Voss. See everything we're doing over

there. Also, go to all the groups on Facebook, LinkedIn, all those crazy places those crazy kids are playing at these days. Thanks for tuning in. Stay safe, be good to each other, and we'll see you guys next time.