The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Alive and Angry: A Survivor’s Story and Perspective on Solving Domestic Violence by Jennifer Hotai

Episode Date: November 11, 2024

Alive and Angry: A Survivor's Story and Perspective on Solving Domestic Violence by Jennifer Hotai Amazon.com Imagine surviving the worst decade of your life—only to come out fighting. In Alive and Angry, Jennifer Hotai delivers an unapologetically raw account of surviving domestic violence while offering a bold, solution-driven approach to a global issue. Domestic violence isn’t just bruises or broken bones. It’s the psychological scars, the soul-crushing isolation, and the silence. Many suffer in the shadows, unable to speak up or break free. You may know someone—or be someone—trapped in this vicious cycle, unsure where to turn. Alive and Angry isn’t just another survivor’s story—it’s a survival guide. Jennifer doesn’t just share her own experience; she arms you with every tool, resource, and strategy you need to escape, heal, and reclaim your life. From practical escape plans and vital resources to personal letters from survivors around the world, this book offers real solutions and strategies for those suffering from domestic violence. It's not about hope alone—it's about action. Jennifer Hotai has been where you are, surviving a life-threatening relationship and emerging as a passionate advocate for change. A tech leader, creative entrepreneur, and a survivor herself, she’s uniquely positioned to tackle the issue head-on with a combination of lived experience and innovative ideas. Her work with nonprofits, tech, and her unfiltered storytelling make Alive and Angry an essential read for anyone who wants to understand and dismantle domestic violence. This book isn’t just about awareness—it’s about solutions. With a pitch deck that outlines actionable ways to combat domestic violence and a wealth of survivor stories, Alive and Angry offers readers a transformative journey. But the key to breaking the cycle is waiting inside—what will you do with it?About the author A lifelong artist. Tech enthusiast. Creative leader. Domestic violence survivor. Jennifer Hotai has experienced and endured many challenges through her creative career and personal struggles. She worked on game and film projects as a concept artist while working dead-end jobs, before creating an advertising company in 2015. She created the creative company called Plover Animation in 2022 while escaping a life-threatening abusive relationship. She is now embarking on new opportunities, offering her leadership skills in the tech and other industries. She drew strength from being a survivor to make a positive impact with nonprofit work. She has spearheaded tech education for the Myrtle Beach area by hosting workshops and speaking events. She also is a board member of the nonprofit Armor Up Sister. This organization aims to solve the problem of the absence of necessary legal & financial assistance and self-care services for domestic violence victims in South Carolina. As an ambassador and speaker in tech, she has presented and appeared at various conferences. She is featured in the 1st and 2nd editions of the book 'Women of the Future' as a Top 100 Women of the Future. In her free time, she enjoys playing the piano, binging sci-fi TV shows, and playing video games. She also rescued and trained a pit bull named Lily in 2023, who is her Psychiatric Service Dog. They enjoy going on adventures, snuggling at home, and providing positive support to people they meet along the way. It’s the best relationship Jennifer has been in, and everyone tells her that Lily’s a very good girl! Jennifer is dedicated to raising awareness about domestic violence and inspiring societal change to reduce its prevalence.

You wanted the best. You've got the best podcast, the hottest podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show, the preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready, get ready, strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times because you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Hi, folks. It's Voss here from thechrisvossshow.com. Ladies and gentlemen, there are only a few things that makes it official welcome to the show for 16 years and over 2100 episodes we bring you the chris voss show as always the chris voss shows

the family that loves you but doesn't judge you at least not as harshly as the rest of your family but we don't loan you money damn it quit asking go to goodreads.com for chest christmas linkedin.com for chest christmas a christmas one of the tick tock and christmas facebook.com, Fortress, Chris Voss, Chris Voss, one of the TikTok, and Chris Voss, Facebook.com. You can see all the wonderful things we're doing there on the social medias, as the kids call it. They don't call it that, Chris. Stop it. You're just an old boomer. Anyway, guys, we have an amazing young lady on the show. We're going to be talking to her about her stories, her insight, her journey, and her cathartic moments that she went through that you can learn from and realize you're not alone and also inspire you. The book is entitled Alive and Angry, A Survivor's Story and Perspective on Solving Domestic Violence,

out October 24th, 2024, coming out, just barely came out. Jennifer Hotai joins us on the show today. We're going to be talking to her about her experience, her life, her journey, and how you can learn from it. She is a lifelong artist, tech enthusiast, creative leader, and domestic violence survivor. She has experienced and endured many challenges through her creative career and personal struggles. She worked on game and film projects as a concept artist while working dead-end jobs before creating an advertising company in 2015. She created a creative company called Plover Animation in 2022 while escaping a life-threatening abusive relationship. She's now embarking on new opportunities,

offering her leadership skills in tech and other industries. Welcome to the show, Jennifer. How are you? Doing great. Hey, y'all. Nice to meet everyone. I'm calling from Myrtle beach south carolina and this by the way my furry friend is lily she is my rescue pity from the humane society and also my psychiatric service dog people gotta see the video on youtube on itunes they just hear the audio but i can see it's pity right oh her her name is. Lily, okay. And her breed is a pity mix. Oh, Pitbull.

Yeah, I can see her face just on the arm behind you, sleeping in the chair with you. Boy, I'm glad my dog doesn't learn to sleep in my chair because I would like, my dog's pretty big and I'm pretty big, so. Yeah, they're just snuggle bugs and this is her heaven right now. Yeah, I mean mean it's giving me these peaceful vibes because it's you know dogs have the look on their face jennifer any dot coms you want people to find out more about you on the interwebs yes my company name is plover animation you can find it at plover animation.com if you want to check out if my

any of my work but of course for today's show i'd love to talk about alive and angry you can just check that out at amazon.com and search in the search box there alive and angry and then you'll pull up there and you can find all the information about me and about the book its purpose most importantly otherwise look me up on linkedin and then you can find out any of my professional background through all that professional that creative background etc that Chris has mentioned earlier and see if there's any possible potential for synergies you might see then we can I can definitely talk about working with you give us a 30,000 overview of what's inside your book yes Yes, Alive and Angry, to put it succinctly, it's a survivor's perspective

on domestic violence and the solutions for solving it. It is also a guidebook or survival handbook, which is very hard to come by for anyone in this situation as I discovered the hard way. There's none other that I am aware of like it with the most up-to-date latest information and case studies from around the world. And you just put it out, so it's got the latest data in it. So give us a deeper dive. Tell us the story of what you experienced as a survivor so i was in a very abusive relationship every possible abuse you name it emotional sexual physical especially and it's for it lasted for about 10 years and the thing like me and other

many other survivors that have been in relationships like that for so long is that we didn't know that we were being abused and then until the last year or so of me being with them it got exceedingly worse and i got through the cycle so many times and eventually it broke down to the point where there was no happy moments it was literally he was literally torturing me well i go into that in great detail and how he did that to me to the point where my mind broke but i found a point an opportunity to escape one night two years ago in april 20th and i was able to do that call 911 get out and then never see him again face to face until our court date a few months later where i got a protective order from but if i had stayed in that situation a day or two any longer i know for sure i would have been killed because the statistics are was women was that kind of

abuse especially those who have been strangled by their intimate partners over 700 chance of me being murdered my partner so basically i was going to get killed by him and i knew it and my instincts kicked in realizing that i was an immediate tinker i was going to get murdered by this guy and there's no way to avoid it other than unless i get out and escape and run really really really far really fast and that's what i did yeah i'm glad you got out and survived and now you can share your story you know the great thing in a lot of stories in life is many people go through this cathartic thing and sometimes we feel we're alone we're isolated it's only us that's it's

happening to and so by sharing our stories good bad and ugly we can help others learn that, number one, they're not alone. Number two, there's answers and a blueprint someone has for survival. And that's a great thing. So you mentioned that for the first 10 years, you didn't really think of it as abuse. What was the sort of psychology behind that, that people get into where they don't recognize abuse right away or in the midst of it there's many stigmas attached with it whether it's a this is what you should expect from a relationship or i i you know no prior knowledge of what an abusive relation looks like relationship looks like until after you escape a lot of that has to play a part of it there's a huge amount of it is manipulation because the abuser

always manipulates their victims to thinking that and isolates them of course too that thinking that they cannot function in life without them without being in control of every aspect of their lives etc and and doing it so insidiously and so subtly over time that you don't realize that they have basically taking over everything and then you know it basically just diminishing your your will and diminishing your willpower and your ability to think for yourself and and not realizing that you know that they had taken over every function of your life in doing so so there is a there's the coercive part of it and then you know eventually it gets more and more physical and then that's when your mind starts to realize okay this is not this isn't healthy this isn't normal i'm confused that's the biggest feeling

that we feel is that we're confused of what is this supposed to be like and are they going to get better and that's a lot of part of the harmful part of it is that we keep hoping that they are going to get better and that if we just love them more if we act better you know for their requirements etc that they're going to stop hurting you or get better and get the help that they promise and it never does it always you know it's 100% guarantee they're going to get worse and it's just going to accelerate and get way worse yeah what was your upbringing what was your childhood was there influences in your childhood that that you know sometimes trauma can happen to people in childhood sometimes we're shaped by how our parents are in their relationship that that sets a blueprint that's hard to sometimes overcome.

And sometimes we choose bad partners because of our childhood influences. Did that happen to you as a child? No, I wouldn't say I had a traumatic childhood, but I had conservative parents. And they didn't exactly have the most openly verbal and very emotional, open discussion about your emotions type family. So it was difficult to get feedback or understanding or get any kind of idea of what a relationship or get some tips, etc.

Of what it should be like to have a partner, etc. And my parents come from that background and it was a christian upbringing and i know that is a trope for many survivors as a lot of them was you know were christian upbringing group you know brought up in a christian household where basically the man has the final word etc and you know and and you know, kind of stuck with me, even though I was like an independent, free, you know, thinking person, I was still stuck in that training in that mindset. And then, you know, looking back, I realized, okay, you know, that's not really healthy. That's not a relationship that I should have been and are open to. Yeah. And, you know, some people, and I found this with religion, sometimes in religious organizations, especially women, you know, they're kind of thought to be, you know, go be barefoot and pregnant. I'm not saying all religions do that, but I've been involved. I've seen a lot that do. And so a lot of them don't get developed because they kind of live in this isolated religious world that isn't in the real world per se.

And sometimes you're taught that everyone is good and, you know, people do nice things and they're empathetic, which is a nice way to want to think. Sometimes you overlook how violent and ugly the world really is. And human behavior can be and sometimes those can lead to bad choices where you know i i i live in utah and so a lot of people grow up here in the religion that's here and a lot of times especially with women you find that they they weren't taught how to really analyze people and judge human nature. And they were taught to be just agreeable for the most part, I suppose. But also, they just weren't given the tools.

And because Utah is kind of isolated and a lot of church sort of things are isolated, they don't get exposure to a lot of experience that you would have in learning, you know, okay, this person has some bad behaviors, this person has some bad behaviors. And I see a lot of consistency in poor choices, in men being picked, partners being picked. I mean, it goes both ways. But I don't know if you have any thoughts on some of that. But sometimes I see it as a continuum. And I'm 50 years old seeing people that have done this for 40 years where they've picked bad partners.

And a lot of it comes from just a naivete. What do you think about what I just said? Is my correct or is there an influence there? Is there something people need to recognize? And I think this is referring to cultural stigmas and cultural cycles and i do mention this in one of the chapters or sections of the book dismantling stigmas and a lot especially in christian communities conservative christian communities and especially in latter-day saints lds i noticed or did research about that where the women were trained to be subservient.

And then this carried on through generation to generation where that was normalized. And it also was our culture too. A lot of women have been taught and through, you know, basically all around the world, women told to just smile, nod and say yes and be very agreeable. And then that's how you should act in society and in your family, et cetera. No matter what's been done to you, however harmful it is, because that's your role, and you're nothing else better than that. And then, unfortunately, that goes back eons, and I actually cover one point of how long or how do we get to this point?

And it is very ancient history. It's over 3,400 years of systemic abuse that was perpetrated through laws enacted by male lawmakers in the past. And it goes all the way back to ancient civilization where they specifically had laws where men were allowed to beat or kill their wives sometimes their children too because they were considered their property and this carried on similar rules you know were enacted difference of different levels of severity where the man was allowed to raise his hand against his wife the various cultures and even in u.s history that was allowed up raise his hand against his wife, the various cultures. And even in U.S. history, that was allowed up to the beginning of the 20th century.

Until the 1920s, it was the suffragettes era, was the women's rights. That's when eventually that got overturned and that was put out. And unfortunately, with the new changes in laws and why it matters now with the book and why these problems really matter now is because of the overturning of roe versus wade on that and that's how and i know that kind of is a stretch from what we originally mentioned about religion etc but a lot of religion did play a part in the laws and the way families were set up and the way generation over generations

had viewed of how women should act, et cetera. So when, you know, I'm thinking of somebody who might be in an experience and they're trying to think, you know, am I, you know, maybe they're questioning, am I in a domestic violence situation? Am I in a domestic situation where i'm being abused or etc etc what was your awakening point i think you mentioned up until the last year and a half about a year and a half at the end you you kind of awoke and went i'm being abused or whatever what was your moment where you realized that you know this had gone too far basically when i was being sleep deprived that was probably the worst form of torture and that is recognized by the un as a form of torture by the way that caused so much pain and sickness and me that my mind just totally just going overboard, hypervigilance, you know, fight or flight. It just started putting

things into gear in my brain. I think that was necessary to generate direct chemicals in my mind to start seeing things differently. So, talk to us about what that's a little about. Can you flesh that story out just a little bit? What going on what was happening and you know i'm just thinking of other people that might be experiencing the same that are listening and they're wondering you know is the same thing happening to me right there's a lot of lists in there and i did include it in the book of identifying what abuse looks like and i included in the in the second section defining abuse and then at the very end, resources section, the most important part is identifying, you know, how do you know if you're in an abusive relationship? And then the characteristics of what an abuser does. includes basically what i've been through on there is everything from the mental manipulation the

diminishing the you know basically yelling screaming controlling everything that you're doing in the household hitting strangling you they can do things you know spiritually too i wasn't i'm not a super religious person but that that also included spiritual coercion in there, too. There's always the psychological impact and sleep deprivation, one form of torture that's being done. Basically, you know, downplaying any of your requests and, you know, being very condescending towards you is a big red flag right there. Ignoring any of your needs, et cetera. There's a long list of, you know, things that you should identify early on of what makes you feel uncomfortable. And then you should refer back to that list. And I want to find that particular list on my, my document of this book, because it's super important that everyone understands these signs.

Yeah. Cause you need to be able to recognize you know what's happening you you mentioned too i'll stall it here for you when you find the list you mentioned to the isolation so i've seen both men and women get involved in relationships where their partner starts isolating them very quickly you know it usually starts with their friends i don't like your friends you know i've had guys come to me and go, yeah, she won't let me be friends with you anymore, man. So we can't be friends because you're a bad influence, she says. And I'm like, okay, all right, have fun with that, man. I mean, if I had a dollar for every story, that'd probably be worth a few thousand. And it happens to both men and women. You know, it's kind of what they

do. And then they isolate you from your family. Oh,'t like your mom oh i don't like your uncle you know whatever and i i don't want you to talk to those people anymore i recently had a very rich successful friend of mine it was recent this is several years ago actually this is all played out but you know i he had a woman who isolated him you know he spent less time with me and his family she even wanted him to abandon his children and all this stuff and he isolated himself and so i literally he wouldn't return my calls he wouldn't return my tax for three three years two to three years in the meantime she cleaned him out for almost a million dollars oh my god yeah you know all the abusive

sort of mental games i don't think there was any physical abuse and but yeah the isolation i think is one tip off maybe you know when they when they start trying to isolate you to where you're the only one or they're the only one that they're in full control of your life and listening to it is actually a key tactic and i tie narcissistic abusers in this book because that's my hypothesis is that narcissists are the main you know types of people that abuse their victims and that's tied in the same exact behaviors of an abuser etc but isolation is a method where they can make sure that the only opinions are from themselves to you and so that you don't get any protection you don't have any you know strength or power you know to fight back etc and then that way it increases the reliance to the abuser to con you

know to do and run anything else in their lives etc because they're the only ones that they should be ever talking to or or giving any sort of affection to etc it is included in the list actually that i i put down here but you want me to read through here yeah please do so the top 11 signs most common signs here extreme jealousy two controlling behavior three quick involvement which is basically love bombing you and moving the relationship super fast for that one let me let me hit on a few of these as we go through if you don't mind we'll flush them out because it's going to be it's going to be hard for me to go back through them yeah yeah but but for on that one the love bombing thing this is something i run a lot of dating groups and do a lot of dating consulting and advice and this is one thing we see with both men and women is the love bombing

initially tell us talk to us a little bit about what that is because that's a i think that's a real popular thing these days. Oh, yeah. It's one of the biggest red flags in relationships that a lot of psychologists will warn you about. Anyone with narcissistic disorder or behaviors would do to a victim is basically start off strong. You know, the first dating or first, you know, starting your any kind of relationship with you, you know, showering you with gifts, you know, getting you tons of jewelry, flowers, taking you on expensive dates, etc. That's those are examples of love bombing, and that can go on and on. And, you know, giving you so much attention, time and such big praises towards you. And it's like, you're, you know, you're meant you

were destined to be together you know those kind of saying kind of fairy tale kind of type of words right there it's like i never knew anyone like you before in my life you know kind of words kind of cringe type words you were able it's it's very commonly used and so you're the one you know on your first date that is a big red sign right there yeah this is the real that's the real problem with the one mentality the soulmate mentality that we get taught by disney is that there's like that one person and and yeah sex bombing is included in the love bombing too as well you know people need to be aware of that early on i I mean, I've seen people, they'll have sex on the first date.

And I think one experience that I had back when I was way younger was a young woman I went out with had sex with her on the first date or she, I mean, she offered it up and really it started, the next two weeks just became like, I felt like I was in a trap that was closing around me. Because every day she had to see me, take me out to her family to show me off. It was really interesting. Lots of love bombing. And you could feel the narcissistic sort of grip there, as it were. And, man, it was, I mean, after two weeks, it was hard to get away from her. I had to go no contact and almost fake my death.

Yeah, that's the best way to get out. No contact. Yeah. I mean, it was was and this was after two weeks you'd think that we'd been married for five years the way the reaction was but you know they it's kind of like they they think they've got a bug in the hand and it gets away and then they're really upset about it and that's part of the control thing i guess if you please share with us the other ones. Oh, yes. And by the way, to all the listeners, if any woman in your life is saying, head over heels over someone in the first date or first week, tell them to run. Run far away and fast as possible.

But the other things are unrealistic expectations. Saying, if you love me, then I'm all you need. And then that leads into isolation of course where you cut you off from your friends and family blaming others they're not going to take responsibility of course for any other actions hypersensitivity don't you dare try to have a debate with them or argument because that'll blow up um cruelty to animals or children i know this is harsh to hear but you know this this is something that they are known to do their brutality verbal abuse mood swings and then a past history of battery is something that is not easy to catch but it's something that i i highly suggest everyone do a background check

i would agree with you i've had ex-girlfriends that got involved with guys who'd been prisoned for grape and and other things abuse, battery, assault, and usually women. So they had some sort of issue in their childhood, probably a mother abandonment. And so whenever a woman tries to leave them, they get really angry and emotional. But yeah, that's a big one. Yeah, double check.

It's amazing to me how many people I've talked to that said, I started dating this guy and he said he went to jail. And I'm like, you didn't ask what the fuck you went to jail for. And he kind of told me, and I'm like, you probably should have, you know, done a background check or asked harder questions. Because, you know, now you found out he was in there for something awful. And you're his next victim. And I've seen a lot of that. I've helped ex-girlfriends do the restraining order thing and helped deal with their legal issues on it.

And since fortunate. And the sad thing is that, you know, this is one of the problems in the society or the system set up, is that not a lot of calls to domestic violence or intimate partner violence is another term for it, around the world has you know resulted in arrests actually only 39 percent of calls have resulted in arrest and only a very small percentage of people do actually call only 34 percent of people actually call for you know for police dispatch to come by because they're deeply afraid, amongst many other reasons. But the whole point is that very few of them end up in an arrest,

so therefore very few actually end up on their records. And even then, on top of that, if you've got a good attorney, they can basically lessen the charges, the severities of it, because there's different levels of severity for domestic violence on there. So you have to be very careful. So if you do do a background check on somebody you want to get involved with, of course, not, you know, immediately want to jump head over heels over somebody, but you want to take your time to look at the background and see what they were charged with, specifically, if it comes down to something related to that

or hire a private detective who doesn't charge too much to actually look into the databases for those specific charges the other thing is is is no you really have to think about your choice and how you choose people i mean that that really comes down to it and so much of it is shaped from childhood which makes a difference did we go through all 11 points then yes we did and what you mentioned something about how people maybe won't call for help did you ever in your story of course in your book of course is did you ever reach that point or and when did you reach that point basically when i is after i escaped I called the police, of course, was the first point of someone to help for.

Then I called my sister and my brother. But it was easier for me to talk to my sister at that time. And she was able to kind of help me cope with that and then told me to get an airplane ticket. On that phone call which i included in the story same exact time i got a phone call from the the police department here myrtle beach letting me know that my abuser got out of jail oh wow so during that same time i switched the phone line over to my sister and she as soon as you heard that said get out get get an

airplane ticket and i did that so fast Like I don't remember how fast I did that and then I grabbed everything as fast as possible Asked for a police dispatch to be at my house and then I left Because I knew if I stuck around he would do what he promised to do Which was basically murder me in the worst way possible So I'm not going to stick around for that But that's what that was the most terrifying time my life was now knowing that someone was getting out of jail knowing what you did to put them in there in that position and then telling you that they would do something to you if

you do yeah basically the fear of punishment like that is so high and most people do not, and especially women who had, you know, a financial, you know, abuse, which in the main, a lot of forms of abuses, removing all the forms of resources, credit cards, or money in the relationship,

they would have no way of escaping. So they isolate you that way as well. So unfortunately, a lot of married women, especially when it was children, it would be trapped and unable to escape and therefore they cannot call for help it basically is treated as a hostage situation which i do compare in there i even put a venn diagram showing experiences here's this here's the same differences between a hostage situation and a domestic violence case right here

and basically it's mostly the same thing this the same situation right there except the the the way the law enforcement treats them way more severe than compared to domestic violence abuse or so that is the sad truth of it i also want to mention that there's another section in the book that includes popular cases of dv from around the too. And these are very recent stories from this year to back in the 90s with the Nicole Brown Simpson case and how that shaped our society being able to handle DV cases. So it explains all the process and how that was handled through police and the stigmas that they went through, whether from being afraid to call, the way that their religion or culture treated them, etc. And what the society, once they heard about it, if there was an outrage and what changes

in their laws has affected from each of these cases. It includes solutions as well. So you've got a pitch deck that outlines actionable ways to combat domestic violence and survivor stories. So you give people the tools that they can use to combat domestic violence and survivor stories. So you give people the tools that they can use to combat domestic violence and maybe not only recognize that they're in a situation, but how to get out of it. The entrepreneurial part of me wanted to do something that was way different than any other book. And this is basically, just like on Shark Tank, you have

a problem that you address and you have the solutions on there. And so I go into great detail. Here are the main problems that society starting from one in three women have experienced or are going to experience DV in their lifetime, globally, etc. 1300 women die annually in the US alone from DV related cases. And it goes on all these different reasons to over $3 trillion that is spent by the U.S. alone on basically the financial burden for, you know, survivors or victims of DV cases just to appeal to people on all different levels. You know, if they're not appealed by the stress and pain and the deaths, then there may be distress by the economic burdens that causes the economy. And there, see what I did there.

And then I went in down there explaining, okay, and here's why it matters. Like I mentioned, Roe versus Wade overturning it. That basically caused a 99% increase in reproductive coercion for victims. And then we're seeing a 33% increase in DV cases since COVID. So it's the lockdown from the pandemic that was like pouring gasoline on fire for all the new DV cases. You may know why, because they're all being stuck together, isolated. That really, really, really pumped things up for all the calls coming in.

And then that leads into, here's a detailed list of different aspects from improving our law enforcement to law reform, new laws being put in place. Here's the technology part. So I also include everything from implementing a global domestic abuser registry, which has been suggested by a U.S. lawmaker before, but has been ignored. But I really think that should be put into place. So it's, you know, like a sex offender registry for domestic abusers. And we really need one. And then also going into here's how the assistance should be approved. Here's how we can improve that with AI, blockchain, et cetera, include a chart and explaining with a mind map how the different systems will work and there so that's my technology background going into here's how we can actually do you know here's how the system will

work and of course i go into great detail different costs and everything and there or new other solutions such as having a safe community kind of of like an Airbnb, but for survivors, et cetera, with sustainable communities, et cetera. So I go on and on with all these different possible solutions in the hopes that if there's a lawmaker or somebody who is an advocate, might want to do at least one of these solutions here. reduce the number of deaths in this country or around the world and also make people less afraid to call to get to help that they know that there is actually more resources out there to help them escape and then also resources for them to survive and have a good quality of life afterwards i'm glad you give them the tools to you know help them identify give the tools you you share you collect a lot of stories around the world, you said. Do you want to tease out a couple of the stories?

Yes, actually the closest one here, literally in Myrtle Beach where I live, I want to acknowledge the victim, Micah Francis. Her married name was Micah Miller. She was married to a pastor here. If you have heard of the story, was in main national news earlier this new year basically the outcome of her enduring of you know repeated abuse such as stalking and control grooming sexual abuse etc the whole list everything she endured from him and alleged i'm going to say alleged just to be officially legal from him all the police reports ended up was a gunshot to her head oh no and in north carolina so there was a huge outrage a you know justice for micah you know hashtag that's been going around in her but

the whole point is that this case raised a concern for why the coercive control law or the coercive control bill that was brought to attention to South Carolina Senate was ignored since 2020. And the family attorney for Micah Francis' family has been fighting for it. But the whole point is this coercive control law bill has been addressed to different states throughout the country and the u.s then there's like about over a dozen states who still do not have this bill miraculously and they address these behaviors of abusers besides seeing an obvious bruise mark on a victim you know it every other possible ways of abuse should be a you know address otherwise you're being called out these police dispatcher being called out to these cases and

they can't they can't do anything or they can't criminal you know they can't there's no way to put them in jail or protected so if this if this law was put in place you're going to save so many lives in there so there's a lot of different you know cases around the world they're similar to that manipulation stalking etc some countries have some laws in place to put into it and but most countries don't on it you know i cover things from the uk to south africa japan to canada many cases in the U.S. too. But basically my whole point is that there are laws that need to be brought into attention that would help definitely protect these women or victims in these cases. And it sure would protect men as well, but I just want to mention women

because they are the most vulnerable in these situations. Yeah. I would say everyone is. I mean, a human being being vulnerable is vulnerable. You know, I've experienced physical abuse from women. I dated an alcoholic for a while who was loved to hit, best thing to do after that is to go into therapy and find out why you choose sometimes these people and why you find you're susceptible to therapy is so important and i highly recommend it for everybody so give us your final thoughts as we go out the on the book and where people can find you on the internet yes basically if you're involved in the community and any standpoint have a woman in your life you know or daughter niece someone coming of

age please have them read this book it may save their life if you are a in the school system anywhere from i recommend 16 and up so high to college, please purchase copies of this book and have in your library because this is something that doesn't exist and I wish it existed for me when I was a teenager. You can go on Amazon.com. It's available as an e-book, paperback, or hardback, and please share it with at least one person that you know, so that you can help raise awareness. There you go. Thank you very much for coming on the show,

Jennifer. Really appreciate it. Thank you for sharing your story as well. Thank you so much for having me, Chris. Thank you. And thanks for tuning in order up the book, wherever fine books are sold.

It's called alive and angry, a survivor story and perspective on solving domestic violence. Let's all be good to each other folks as we always say in the show go to goodreads.com fortunes chris voss linkedin.com fortunes chris voss chris voss won the tiktokity and all those crazy places on the internet be good to each other stay safe and we'll see you guys next time and that should have us out yeah definitely there we are all right