The Chris Voss Show - The Chris Voss Show Podcast – America Made Me a Black Man: A Memoir by Boyah J. Farah

Episode Date: September 30, 2022

America Made Me a Black Man: A Memoir by Boyah J. Farah A searing memoir of American racism from a Somalian-American who survived hardships in his birth country only to experience firsthand the dehumanization of Blacks in his adopted land, the United States. “No one told me about America.” Born in Somalia and raised in a valley among nomads, Boyah Farah grew up with a code of male bravado that helped him survive deprivation, disease, and civil war. Arriving in America, he believed that the code that had saved him would help him succeed in this new country. But instead of safety and freedom, Boyah found systemic racism, police brutality, and intense prejudice in all areas of life, including the workplace. He learned firsthand not only what it meant to be an African in America, but what it means to be African American. The code of masculinity that shaped generations of men in his family could not prepare Farah for the painful realities of life in the United States. Lyrical yet unsparing, America Made Me a Black Man is the first book-length examination of American racism from an African outsider’s perspective. With a singular poetic voice brimming with imagery, Boyah challenges us to face difficult truths about the destructive forces that threaten Black lives and attempts to heal a fracture in Black men’s identity.

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where the Chris Voss Show is at. Today, we have another amazing author on the show. Boya J. Farrar is on the show with us today. He's the author of the newest book that just came out, September 6, 2022, America Made Me a Black Man, a memoir and very insightful, a searing memoir of American racism from a Somalian American who survived hardships in his birth country only to experience firsthand the dehumanization of blacks in his adopted land, the United States. We know that the United States, of course, has a long history of, a long sad history of racism, different things and issues. And so it's going to be talking about his experience and him overcoming some of the different struggles

that he did throughout his lifetime. He was born in Somalia and raised in a valley among nomads. He grew up with a code of male bravado that helped him survive depredation, disease, and civil war. Arriving in America, he believed that the code that had saved him could help him succeed in his new country. But instead of safety and freedom, he found systematic racism, police brutality, and intense prejudices in all areas of life, including the workplace. He learned firsthand not only what it meant to be an African in America,

but what it meant to be African American. Welcome to the show, Boya. How are you? Doing wonderful. Glad to be here. Wonderful to have you as well, my friend. Well, give us your dot-coms or any place you want people to follow you on the interwebs, please. I have a website, boyafar.com. I'm also present in Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter,

Boyajifara. There you go. You got to be everywhere now these days on all these platforms. So is this your first book and what motivated you to write this book? This is my first book. What motivated me is I got upset with America. I loved

adopted country got me upset. Therefore, I wrote upset with America. I loved adopted country got me upset. Therefore, I wrote this to America. The beauty of America is people can get upset at it and call it out. I forget what it says in the Constitution, but something to the effect that we're on a constant journey to get to some semblance of perfection. But it's a journey that will never end. And we're constantly working towards it. And of course we have a lot of demons in our past. We're kind of like, uh, the last five of my ex-wives, uh, demons in my past or my past of demons. I don't know. You'll have to ask them. They'll tell you. Uh, so, uh, you, you, uh,

were born and grew up in Somalia. to us about let's start from the beginning and talk to us about that's that journey well i i was born to a nomadic family i am the the first son my father was the only boy and in the somali culture that's almost like a curse wow to be the first the only boy in the family. And then he didn't have boys. There are two sisters older than me. And when I was born, I was actually a blessing of many. My father won a son. And what it means in that part of the culture,

a son carries the family, a son protects the family. A son is everything, really. So to have a sun is to survive in Somalia, where there's a constant battle over everything. And the nomads have, normally, nomadic culture is you don't belong. You belong to everywhere. You follow the rain. Wow.

And so you are as free as the American highways in the somali culture poetry and freedom are the definition of the very somali culture in east africa somalia there you go nomadic culture that's really an interesting concept uh when they say follow the rain is that because you go where the water goes is that that the idea there? Yeah. I mean, when I was growing up with my grandmother, if the grazing, the place where you live at, the grazing dries, you got to pick up whatever you have and follow.

Follow the rain. Whatever the rain is, that's where you go. There you go. And, of course uh you mentioned the freeways you know being uh open and nomadic except for california i just want to get that joke in there if you've ever been on the 405 there's no nomadic you're just sitting there the whole time and but no i get what you mean this is this is really interesting uh so you grew up i i i know in the 90s, Somalia collapsed into total chaos.

I think civil war, you'll correct me if I'm wrong there. And was this your childhood growing up in that era? Yeah, yeah. I mean, when the war happened, when I was a little boy, you know, my father died, you know, and then the war happened. War just came, man, like a drifting wind. And my mother, you know, grabbed my hands and we walked out. You know, at that time, somebody was going through initial stages of war is the worst time because you don't know where to go. You don't have any survival skills. It's just, it's tragic.

You know, it's much more tragedy in the beginning of the war than later years of life. Because later years of life, you actually understand what the war culture is all about. So it was really tragic that we had to walk out of our home and to anywhere safe. You know, when a young man grows up, it's, you know, we're expected as men to, you know, bring stuff to the world. We have to build things. We have to build things. We have to achieve things. And when a young man loses his father or when he's the only son in your case, as in both cases, that's a lot of pressure, especially for a young boy who's still developing himself and still looking for leadership. What's that like growing up in that experience?

Well, I'm the first son. I have other younger brothers, but the first son is basically expected. I mean, really, you are at the age of six or seven, you really have to show up your manhood. And in that part of the culture, crying is not part of our culture. Boys don't cry men

boys are basically men in the making if a boy cries he'll never be a man you know so from six years old up there's no way you're going to cry you have to uh expect actually the family or no matter some other culture prepares the boy for hardship and war and tragedies. And they prepare the girls for, um, um, you know,

motherhood, you know, so it's a two different approaches right, right from the start. Yeah. You know, there's no way that you're going to expect to weep and then still remain your father's son.

No way. Exactly. Hi, Voxers. Voss here with a little station break. Hope you're enjoying the show so far. to weep and then still remain your father's son. No way. Hi, folks. Chris Voss here with a little station break. Hope you're enjoying the show so far. We'll resume here in a second. I'd like to invite you to come to my coaching, speaking, and training courses website. You can also see our new podcast over there at chrisvossleadershipinstitute.com. Over there, you can find all the different stuff that we do for

speaking engagements. If you'd like to hire me, uh, training courses that we offer and coaching for leadership management, entrepreneur ism, uh, podcasting corporate stuff, uh, with over 35 years of experience in business and running companies as CEO. Uh, I think I can offer a wonderful breadth of information and knowledge to you or anyone that you want to invite me to for your company. Thanks for tuning in. We certainly appreciate you listening to the show. And be sure to check out chrisfossleadershipinstitute.com. Now back to the show.

It's quite the saddle to be put on. I was a first child, and, of course, there was always the, well, if everything you have is dead dad you're the man of the house you have to protect and take care of everybody and i'm like hey man i'm just a kid like yeah i didn't sign up for this crap so there you go so how do you find your way to uh through your life in somalia and then then you end up leaving Somalia. How does that journey take place? Well, you know, destiny is real.

When I say God is real, the sky is real, the earth is real. You know, there is a lot of times you plan life, you don't really plan life. Life plans itself. Destiny is part of it. And when the war happened, we didn't know where we were going to go or where we were going to end up. And the reality is we zigzagged in the countryside, the lions, you know, treacherous journey. Yeah.

Where if you cry, even the children, toddlers, learn not to cry. Wow. They learn not to cry. Wow. They learn not to ask food. If you see your children asking for food because they are in peace, they are in the U.S. and somewhere. You know, children's hardship, they don't ask those things. You go, you die. And then we got to a Kenya refugee camp in 1991.

We went back to the war twice. And then we ended up in a refugee camp outside of Bombasta, Kenya. And that refugee camp actually had, there were more people dying there than the people in the war because of dengue and malaria. We actually lost two boys there

that my mom adopted. And then, you know, we got sponsorship to the U.S. We came from a refugee camp to a place called Bedford, all white town, greenery, absolutely gorgeous, almost like a heaven. Yeah. Heaven, you know, and, you know, so it's a life.

And so you go through this journey where you're escaping war, you're escaping hardship, and you come to America. And I imagine there's a lot of dreams or potential or, you know, you kind of have maybe a vision of what you're headed to and what it might be. Yeah. I mean, to me, when I was in a refugee camp, and I write this in the book, that America was a star. I mean, in the refugee camp, it's completely dark. And you sit, you know,

sleep outside. The tent is kind of hot. You sleep right up in plain. When you look at it, the only light that you have is the stars. Wow. And the stars at nighttime.

In my childhood, in my childhood memories, when I was looking at stars, the stars fight just like humans. Some stars fall. The star that remains, I used to think America to be that star. And therefore, to be in America was to reach for the star. But to walk in America was basically to run in the rain naked. Wow. You know, it was absolutely gorgeous.

I really did not want to die until I entered the heaven. And I remember even asking, begging God, you know, because I got malaria right before we came here. Oh, wow. And I remember asking God, please, if you're going to kill me, let me first enter America, then take my life. Wow. You know, and good thing, you know, God listened. You know, that's a beautiful analogy that you used about the stars. And I never really thought about it from the angle that they fight.

And, of course, some stars fall, and the key is to be a star that stays. That's a beautiful analogy. And I think when people talk about immigration to America, when they think of people that come to this country and want to come to this country, you know, I've always been inspired by the Statue of Liberty on the thing. And recently we saw some immigrants persecuted by some ugly governors, manipulating them and spending more money than they would have spent to take care of them, to fly them on private jets. But what people have to realize is that there's so much of that dream and passion for people to want to come to what they perceive as the shining city on the hill, although that's kind of a negative connotation in kind of some of our history. But they believe so much in the dream and the vision, and they want to come here and they want to do good things

and they want to be great people and they want to take part in this beautiful experiment we call democracy, at least we are this week. We'll see what happens next week uh and and so i think it's great that you share this and people get a sense of this that there's a human beings i hate when they call them immigrants on tv and stuff and in the news that i'm like they're fucking human beings goddamn human beings and there shouldn't be flags or territorial crap that separates us. Anyway, I had to get my little PSA in there. So you come to America. What's the experience like after you get here?

Well, the experience, you know, actually the initial experience matched the star. It really did. It actually matched the star. It matched the running naked in the rain. It really did. Because, you know, you get to see a trim grass, green grass. You get to see clean roads. The only awkward thing that I thought Americans practice is the having dogs inside the homes.

Oh yeah. That didn't really, the dogs, animals belonged outside and you know, animals, only humans belong inside. You know what I mean? And I remember walking,

you know, in Bedford, absolutely gorgeous place, absolutely a place that, that actually I restore what I basically, I became an optimist because what people in bedford did for me is they care for me and i thought people are not connected to me they have never seen me they're white people i'm an african child black and what he did for me inside

me is human beings strangers care therefore i care for them That's the attitude that I actually developed in Bedford. I was the only immigrant student. I had my own teacher called Esty in Bedford High School. I mean, it was remarkable. I mean, it was strange a little bit because I've never seen so many white people and I wanted to touch their hands,

you know what I mean? And they also want to touch me as well and see what is African boy, how is it like? You know what I mean? And they also want to touch me as well and see what is African boy, how is it like, you know. And so it was absolutely gorgeous where I'm amazed by them. I'm looking at them and I want to, like, you know, be friends with them, touch them and play with them. But they also want to do the same thing.

And so it was a gigantic learning experience for me. It opened my, you know know my mind to possibilities of humankind and you write about this in the book you talk about your experience and journey where does it go from there where does it go awry and where do you start having issues with this country that we all get to throw rocks at thankfully we can lately yeah i mean i mean you're not really an immigrant like me who ran away from war, looks at America's heaven, right? And also, American life or even a black life in America, you're not really an American until you start to drive. You're not really American until you get a job.

You know, that's when you actually experience the real America. I thought it was when you go to McDonald's and order the Big Mac. That was actually the good part of it. I was addicted to Boston cream, Dunkin' Donuts cream. I was also addicted to fast foods. I'm surprised we haven't made you fat yet. We're good at that. I love everything about America, really.

But once you start driving, that's when you get to see the America that awaits you, We do what we do. We're good at that. I love everything about America, really. But once you start driving, that's when you get to see the America that awaits you, the America that black people in general in this country complain about. That reality is what, that's when I get to know, you know, little by little. Even when I was biking, I get to know it. And when I was driving, I get to know it. And when I get a job, I get to know more and more and more. And then when you become a drifter after that.

You go from one job to the next and, you know, you really don't belong anywhere. And that's the tragedy of the American story that needs to be talked about and fixed. Yeah. I mean, we're 450 years of dealing with racism and issues of this country, how it was built, you know, and how it was, you know, all the things that have gone into it. You know, we've had people on the show that have written about James Baldwin and, you know, a lot of stuff that James Baldwin's talked about. What has it been, 70 years now, 60, 70 years? You know, you could take all of it and put on today.

We're a country that has a real problem with racism, with prejudice and the challenge of fixing it stuff. So when do you start discovering this? I've had people on the show that have talked about, you know, when they first discovered that there's a racial problem in America. When do you start discovering this? So when does it start really coming to a head for you? I start actually, I really didn't want to go against, I didn't want to admit the reality of America because I have so much love. So, you know, initially, even when I was, before I learned to drive, I was used to being on a bike from my apartment to the library. And I write about it in the book. One time I went to a small sub shop and I was addicted to pizza.

We got you in America. You became American, buddy. I love pizza, man. So, you know, every time I saved a little money or someone gives me something, I used to just bike there and have that pizza, you know. And I remember the guy behind the counter, as soon as I entered, he knew me because I've been there so many times. I love pizza. And he threatened to call the cops. Really?

Yeah, as soon as I get in there. He was like, the cops are right there. And, you know, what am i going to say i i wanted to sit but i didn't sit i got grabbed by pizza you know ate outside and bike back wow so little by little there was a lot of different episodes like that but once again who am i to complain when i came from death it That's true. So those little things I overlooked became like small, metaphorically, small little bullets you're carrying. Small little bullets penetrating your body without

your knowledge. And then one day you go into depression because it's just too much for you. And that's when I began to write this book. You know, you entitled it, America Made Me a Black Man. Talk to us about what that means in your title, why you made it that title. In Africa, I am my father's son in that valley. And his enemy is my enemy, who he only loves as well, so that person that I love.

And also, I was born to protect the belly to protect the weak know my enemy exactly where they are you know what i mean but you you come to america i was never a black man in america right because i came from that culture everyone is black samaya there's no labeling um i came here and then uh america teaches you little by little that you are a married black man in the soil and the way it teaches you is those metaphorically those bullets that i just explained little by little this annoyance builds up and ultimately you become your your good friend uh the person i talk about it in in in the, Derek, may he rest in peace. Basically, he used to tell me,

hey, you're not, are you a black man yet? Because I used, even though we're going through the same thing, I used to deny it because I didn't want to go against America because still America brought me into their, into its own soil. Like, no, you know,

I got too much, too much in me. They gave me so much. I'm a guest. Also, my father's culture, you're a guest. You go to someone else, you're a guest. Therefore, you are that person. So there was a lot of complexity in my head that was denying the reality of black people in America.

And this is true for, as part of the American history. The only difference is I'm adding new voice and African perspective To this mix But to be Black in this country Is to be almost like an orphan Because you don't belong Your whole country rejects you, what do you do?

You can't find a job, what do you do? You're highly educated You become a drifter, what do you do? I mean all these questions that what do you do you're highly educated you become a drifter what do you do i mean all these questions that what do you do come becomes uh you you go into uh depression what this the the comment that he made is uh is powerful you know are you a black man yet uh and and and uh dealing with your denial and things of that nature um it's it, it's saddening that we, we have this going on in our country where we've been dealing with for so

long, we still haven't resolved it. And of course you see the issues that we had during 2020, we had the George Floyd murder and you know, lots of other heinous things that went on. And this country still struggles with it. I mean, in January 6th, seeing the Confederate flag from the Civil War that we fought over slavery almost 200 years ago in our retundant,

I'm like, this war is still being fought by remnants of our country? It's just heartbreaking and astounding and shocking. And it also tells us how far we still need to go. And I think books like yours and stories like yours are an indication of that we still have a long ways to go and a lot of work to do as a country to come together as a people. Indeed, indeed. It is true. I mean, the overall message of the of the book is basically i love you america black people loves you reciprocate the love we're looking for a

merit-based system america is rich enough we solve other people's problem but we can't solve our own i'm inside the belly we're inside the belly the belly has to work for everyone you gotta feed everyone you know what i mean so uh you know it's just uh i i like i like i mean i i'm glad the book is having uh uh is it's spark it's it's you know there's a debate around this and and and and that's the beauty of america america's still learning and uh i'm hoping that we will continue to grow because America is also one of the youngest countries in the world. We are. You know, we're a young democracy.

And like you say, the analogy of the stars, the stars, they fight, and some of the stars fall. I mean, we're very close historically to an empire falling to fascism and the war that you saw. And I don't know that we'd ever fully break into a civil war. I'm not really sure people are going to drive the land rovers into each other in our country. We're kind of too lazy to do a war. Um, but I, you know, we, we would have a political war. I think that we have going on right now. Um, and it's a war between democracy and fascism and authoritarianism and uh if you study history if you study um the rise of fascism authoritarianism

and white nationalism and stuff it's it's a very dark ending that we're on a pathway to and we've got to somehow get this train off of the tracks of destiny that it seems to be on and it really comes down to the people, you know, the people here choose the government they want. And they also choose the America that they want. And, uh, you know, so it's good that you have this book that you're having this discussion that you're sharing your story. I love your Somalian analogies. Um, and you write a lot of beautiful sort of poetic sort of things and analogies in

the book so that people people people get a feel for you know painting a good picture of of what what uh what is out there and how we need just need to be better everybody you know this isn't my my gram my i'm an immigrant technically uh yeah i am a immigrant really when it comes down to it not not first born like yourself but my great grandfather so two generations up came from germany and when he came this country he didn't speak a lick of germ english uh he was recruited by some mormon missionaries unfortunately who brought him to america or it got him to come to america he stepped off a train uh and he couldn't speak a lick of english and people uh helped him took him into their homes, gave him jobs.

And here I am two generations, two or three generations later. And, you know, this is a nation of immigrants. I mean, that's really what it is. And people want to come here and make things better. And there's not a lot of people that come here and go, let's make things worse. Because if you've seen America, there's not much more we could do to be worse. I mean, really, the beauty of America is, I was in Somalia last three years, on and off.

And what I really, I miss the diversity of America. I miss Chipotle, you know what I mean? I miss small diversity of America. I miss Chipotle. You know what I mean? Like I miss small little shops. You know, I miss America. There's unlike any other country in the world. I mean, really. And I'm saying it a very, I've seen it.

You know, the diversity of this country where you can have access to, if you want to go to China china and have chinese food you got a place you go to like a sierra leone you got you there's a spot there's a there's a restaurant somewhere you know so america is basically uh this experience is unlike any other experience under the planet you know what i mean and And sometimes young people, Americans don't see what they have. And sometimes you don't even know what you have until you lose it.

You know, so it's very important that young, all the Americans used to travel. Young Americans, I don't know if they even travel because whenever I go to, you know, somewhere else, I don't really see Americans much.

You know, maybe if we travel, we'll be able to have access to them. But I really want young people, young Americans, I'm hopeful. Despite everything I've able to have access to that, but I really want young people, young Americans. I'm hopeful. And despite everything I've seen, I've seen death, I've seen war, I've seen everything. I've seen racism, which I think racism is much more generational than, than war. War is immediate. Racism is generational.

And that's why in the book I said racism is worse than war because war is immediate. Why? That's it. You know, you don't, you don't really inherit it the racism you inherit it i really want young americans to look at themselves and read the book and just think and know this country is capable of fixing its own problems so this country can move on in the right direction i do not like to see what i have left behind a civil war in in this country i use the analogy I use the metaphor of the green grass turning gray, or God refusing the rain.

If war comes, God will refuse the rain. Because, you know, a lot of the countries that are war, there's a lot of starvation because the rains don't come. So peace comes with rain. Rain comes with prosperity. So we want to make sure democracy lives and people

get along and the wrong is right, the tragedies are admitted, so we can move on. That's the story that I'm telling you that, hey, we can fix this. We have to listen to you that, hey, we can fix this. We have to listen to each other, admit what we have done wrong, and move on. And I love your analogy, the grass can turn gray.

A lot of these things are really going to stick with me, dude, for years. That's going to stick with me for a long time. I love the analogies and stuff you put in the book. And that paints the picture and helps people understand the stories. And, yeah, these conversations are tough. They're hard to have. It's hard to look at you and go, it's hard to look internally and go, do I have issues?

You know, I've spoken about this on the show, and I try and do this as a way to help people and have gotten a lot of good feedback on it. But when I grew up in California, so I grew up in with everybody, you know, I was friends with everybody. And so I didn't feel like any sort of racial tendencies or racist tendencies or anything like that.

But, you know, I grew up with a lot of influences. I grew up with, I didn't realize at the time that, you know, watching some of the things that were on my TV, like John Wayne shows and stuff had a lot of, uh, had a lot of community. We're communicating a lot of negative messages and stuff in them. Um, and I remember, uh, when Donald Trump took presidency and I was shocked, uh, I didn't think we were that kind of a country. And I, all my friends of different cultures, races,

sexuality were being assaulted the very next day that night. Their, their cars were painted. They're being thrown at taxis. All sorts of hate began on that day. And I, I asked myself, you know, what is this white nationalism? What is this about? Who are these white nationalists that voted this guy in? And we've had a lot of great authors on the show that talked about it. But even I had to sit down and go, do I have any

of this? Are there words that I use like, you know, nationalism or is there anything I use? And it's important that we have these discussions, that we look inside, that we have an inventory that we take, and that we talk about what other people's experiences are because that just makes us get along better with everybody else and understand everybody else's experience so that we can make America better. True, true. And mostly politics.

I'm not a politician. I'm a writer. I don't know if I should say I hate politicians, but I don't want to admit that. Whenever I think of politics, it's what I think about is wrong, you know, in my young days. It was not the people that wanted to fight each other.

It was politicians that divided the people, truthfully speaking, you know, in my young life in somalia so what what politicians say is it's important you know what i mean because their their words carry a lot more weight than you and i because they have audience and what you tell those audience matters uh you know and it's tragedy that they they might escape but uh those people who are listening to their songs might not escape uh because when tragedies come it just come like rain man it will touch everyone you know what i mean it's not a it's not a it's not a not a pretty place for when two neighbors fight each other. It's the worst. I remember when I was a little

boy, my best friend coming to the house with an AK-47 looking for me. I didn't do anything with the kid. He just heard that we were on the wrong side of the history. And now he survived. Sometimes we have a conversation

and he's very He didn't find me because we escaped Thank God But now he's an adult And I'm an adult And now we understand each other There was a civil war The enemy was not really between us

It was politicians So politics I always think about those two Me and my best friend Being two different camps and fighting each other for nothing. And then when we both survived, we admitted that, you know, he was wrong for him to look for me. He's very apologetic. But I understand that it was just a civil war. He was just a young boy.

And this happened in Somalia, huh? This happened in Somalia, yes. Politicians' words are very, very important. Yeah. And that's another great lesson from the book. You know, they wrote in the Constitution, we the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union. What people always need to realize about that line in the U.S. Constitution is that we will never achieve perfection. Perfection is never achieved.

It's an insane thing to go after as a human being. If you think you're ever going to achieve perfection, you haven't lived long enough. It's always a journey, and that journey is never-ending. As President Obama said once, we're a country that zigs and zags back and forth, and yings and yings, if you will. We're constantly zigzagging to try and find that more perfect union to establish justice, to ensure domestic tranquility, to provide for the common defense and promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our prosperity.

And that's what they put in the U.S. Constitution. But it's always going to be a journey. We're never a perfect union. When I hear these people say, we're the greatest country in the world. No, we're not. We're on a journey. No, no. Yeah, it's true what you said in real.

I mean, the word perfection does not belong to us. It belongs to the unseen, belongs to God. You know, you have to, you have to keep working, keep trying. You know, the day that you have

everything in life, that's the day you're gone. You're going to, you're going to, you know what I mean? Because you have no challenges. Yeah. Absolutely no challenge.

You need, you need something to work on so that hope can continue. This country is young. we made a lot of problems we'll continue to we made a lot of a lot of a lot of errors a lot of mistakes we'll continue to make them but we need to make we need to admit some of the things that we've done wrong that at least you know for people of color and and so they can be included and and for me to come in well right i want to write a book of love and i wanted to take that green grass and apply it how beautiful

america is uh and you know so would a good analogy be then that you you love america and that's why you're criticizing it and saying i love love you, but you can be better. And I still love you, but there's, you know, I mean, it's a relationship. And we've all done that in a relationship where we've said, I love you, but some things need to change. You could be better. And I think that that's the same message that black people have been sending for a long time. You know, black people in this country are not going anywhere. They're in the army.

Actually, the soft power of America is African-American culture. Music, when you are somewhere else, anywhere in the world, you know Michael Jackson. And as soon as you hear Michael Jackson, you love Michael Jackson, you connect to America. You know, you love LeBron James, you know, you connect to America.

You know what I mean? So fashion, sports, you know, music, all of that is soft power and black people represent that. But that has to be reciprocated.

That love that black people project throughout the world, they don't receive that inside the belly. Yeah. You know, the belly of America. And the message is black people love this country. I love this country.

There's no doubt about it. The love has to be reciprocated. We're looking for a system, a merit-based system. I'm educated. Hey, give me a chance. Let me, you know, I don't like the hierarchy i don't like you know also my nomadic culture doesn't allow me to be lower than other americans i feel equal because i was born like that i can't help it and it should be that way i mean uh that's what america is

supposed to be about no one is above the law no one is above one another the law is supposed to apply equally to everyone uh and uh we shall be treating each other as americans i mean that's that's what this country's about to me deeply we should all treat each other like human beings regardless of what country we subscribe to to me there's the territorial flags and and i think everyone should should probably hold that as a baseline that we're all human beings inside you know a father wants the same thing most fathers or mothers they want the same things for their children regardless of what country they are i remember when sting wrote a song about you know the russians love their children too you know i was growing up

as a child you know the russians were the enemies back then, USSR. And, you know, I had to hide under a desk as a child from, you know, practice, there's mothers and fathers and parents and children's people who just want to live their lives and they don't want to, you know, deal with tyranny of government and everything else. And, and it's good that you, you talk about this sort of stuff in your book because I grew up in America being born here. We don't taking it for granted. You're just like, Hey, you know, it's great. Everybody's got freedom and TV and big Macs and, you know, pizza. Uh, and then you kind of find out that it's not, and you kind of find out that, you know, it's not great. And then it's, you know, we've been kind of going through this discussion the last few years. We had one of the authors of 1619, the book 1619 on, and we've had a lot of great authors on over the last few years and uh you know

there's been a lot of talk about what's gone on in schools with education and stuff we have to look at the ugly parts of our history before we can fix them the one thing man can learn from his history is that man never learns from his history uh and uh we have to look at the ugliness. We have to look at our past to re-change our future, because if we don't address our past, the future will never change. That is what you said is real. I mean, it's true, but it's hard. We know a lot.

You know what I mean? And this is America. We know a lot. We have access to all the information on our computers you know google is right there we don't want how other nations have learned uh their own mistakes ultimately we will learn our mistakes because the uh pain will force us and i'm not saying this lightly it's real if you don't confront um and you don't confront and you don't fix ultimately tragedies will be democratic

and this warning this book is partly warning in my own life I've seen it and sometimes even though it's very tough for us to acknowledge our own mistakes what we have done wrong but it's very tough for us to acknowledge our own mistakes,

what we have done wrong, but judging history is very important. If we're going to renew our hope and our dream and make this country a better place, it's very important that we acknowledge our own path and examine it so we can have a better future for the unborn, not just the ones who are living now, but those who are unborn. Very, very important. And those reactionaries who are saying we should not look back,

those are the same people I have seen in my rear view looking back in Somalia where those who at the end bury their own children in a shallow grave. And that's not where we want to go. We want to be able to admit our own faults, fix home. This is home for all of us. And, you know, continue to learn. Yeah. I mean, we can, this, we have people right now that are politicians that are advising

for war, that are trying to stoke civil war. They're trying to stoke hate with one another. And this is one of the problems of the human existence that just confounds me that people still don't get it when politicians play people against each other, when they're always, and this has been going on since Roman times, since Greece, Greek times, for thousands of years of humanity it's always some politicians or someone wanting power going that guy over there is going to steal from you meanwhile he's the guy who's stealing from everyone yeah and uh he's like look over there look over there and steals all your you know food money and stuff and so uh we have you know the billionaire class and oligarchy in this country that's kind of started to take over with uh you know, some of the SCOTUS rulings and things that have gone on with Citizens United.

And as Americans, we need to stand up and go, you know, this is everyone's country. This isn't your country. And maybe it's not the bad person over there who's the problem. Maybe it's the person who's pointing the finger at those folks. And we need to really identify, you know, who the real problems are in this country because you get the government and you get the country you deserve. It's true. I think it goes back to young people.

I think we should educate young. The young should, you know, the young are, they're the risk takers. Anyone, you know, the older are hard. It's hard to take risks when you're much older. But when you're young, you can take risks and you can fix and you can engage. We need young leaders in this country, really. We have a lot of older people who are running the show here.

And those older people carry, they're not going to change. You know, we need young and hopeful people who are willing to take risks, to confront, to change, to sing. We need young Bob Dylan. I'm a lover of Bob Dylan in the 60s. I think 60s Americans were the best in terms of protesting against the war in Vietnam

or protesting against black brutality. It was real. It was organic. And I think we need that kind of spirit in the American life. I think, I think if we get that, then America can renew itself. But if they don't,

if we don't, if we hide, we don't tell the truth, then things might go worst. Yeah, divorce definitely. Yeah. If you don't.

From the spirit of that generation, Bob Dylan and Tony Morrison, Malcolm, you know, all these revolutionary people that wanted to see America with, you know, and it's, it is best.

Yeah, definitely. A more perfect union or the journey there to, uh, I think it's great that you wrote this, uh, It is best. Yeah, definitely. A more perfect union or the journey there to have. I think it's great that you wrote this, hopefully to appeal to young people, to get them interested, excited, educated, motivated. The future is their future. I mean, it really is. I mean, they're the ones who are going to have to live in this country for, you know, most of their lives and uh you know the the future uh that that comes after

that they pass down to their kids is going to be you know the the one thing about the more perfect union statement in our constitution and the drive for to become american is like you mentioned earlier the show we're a very young democracy we're a very young country when it comes to other countries but you've seen if you watched, you've seen empires fall. Rome fell. You know, it used to be the British colonies. The sun never set on them. You know, every dog has its day.

And there's always the potential that our day could come to an end. It's an empire as a democracy and everything else. And you've got to fight for it. You've got to care about it. You've got to curate it and take care of it. Otherwise, if you don't, it will wander off. What's the old thing? You don't know what you have until it's gone.

That is true. And I really wrote this book from that spirit of renewal, that is spirit of telling the truth. So we can force, when I say I write, I tell people this is a love letter to America. And it really is. Because if you love something, you have two choices. You can walk away and it can crumble.

Probably, you know, something awful happens. Or you can look at it and it says, I love you, but this is what's wrong with you. So, you know, even though there's a lot of, it's heavy, the book is, it's a heavy book. But at the same time, you can feel the love in the grass. You can feel the love in the grass. You can feel the love in the highway. You can leave the, you know, almost every scene that you look at it, there is love right there that says, hey, I got incredible love for you, man. Change.

You can do it. You know, and I really have that spirit that we can do it. I really do. We can do it. I mean, America can do it if we spread the right information to young people. And so they can believe themselves that they can actually

do something. If that happens, the young will, you know, America will continue, the grass will continue, and we'll be all right. Yeah. America is a great baton race, and every generation passes that baton one to another,

and that's how we got 240-some-odd years into this experiment, and the only future that we have. I make it a point to vote. I vote. I largely vote moderate Democrat, but I often tell people that if there was a fascist authoritarian as a Democratic presidential candidate, I would vote against him. You know,

you have to figure out who's going to carry this baton forward, this country forward, this Great American experiment forward, without invoking hate and division and separation and everything else. Yeah, hate is not going to do anything.

That's just look at my Somalia. That's that. Hate will not do anything. It will destroy the green grass. It will destroy the American house, destroy what we have, the hot water, the cold water.

People don't have access to that. It's beautiful. That's a great analogy to take and have so it's been wonderful Boya to have you on the show and a brilliant discussion hopefully people learn a lot from it and stuff give us your .com so people can find you on the interwebs

please I have boyafara.com it's my website I also use Twitter Boya J Farah Instagram Boya J Farah and also LinkedIn Boya J. Farah, Instagram, Boya J. Farah, and also LinkedIn, Boya J. Farah. Those are all my social media presence. And I appreciate the love, man.

Thank you for having me. And it was a wonderful discussion. Honored to have you, my friend. Honored to have you. And hopefully we get better as a country a country and uh we will start treating each other as americans and as human beings for god's sake um it's really important you know when you see the tv when you see the news people uh and they're referred to as immigrants realize that there's different you know george carlin talked about, the dehumanization of language and how we use language to dehumanize people.

And realize that when some people, politicians, or sometimes you'll see it on certain news channels, they use language to dehumanize these people. And it really makes me frustrated when they're immigrants or something other than just human beings. They're human beings. They're mothers. They're fathers. They're people just like you that have hearts and minds, that have children, that want the best for them, that want to see them grow. That's so true.

They're human beings. So keep that in mind when you hear that language that dehumanizes. That's not a good thing. That is so true. Yeah, that is so true. That's wonderful what you just said. Yeah, that is so true. I just want to, that's wonderful what you just said. I am an example of it.

I mean, we wouldn't have an iPhone. You know, Steve Jobs' father is from Syria. Yeah. You know, like this country benefits immigrationists. So when you're looking at that child on TV and somebody's demonizing, one day that child might contribute to the United States of America.

Just keep that in mind. And that is it. You can actually Google and see how many immigrants that have contributed to this country. This country is better because of immigration. You will be some small country in Europe. I mean, look at European countries. No one knows. But America is present everywhere culturally.

It's present because of immigration. We are the world. We have to make sure that we keep that. We're an immigrant nation. I mean, we really are. So, order up the book, guys, wherever fine books are sold. America

Made Me a Black Man, a memoir. You can get that wherever fine books are sold. Thank you very much, boy, for coming on the show. We wherever fine books are sold thank you very much boy for coming on the show we really appreciate it again thank you so much thanks for having me there you go thanks to my honest for tuning in be sure to share the message and let's build a better country uh go to all of our places on youtube.com fortress chris foss goodreads.com fortress chris foss and all those places on the interwebs thanks for tuning in be good to each other stay safe and we'll see you guys next time